In this episode, Stuart and Adam are joined by Steven Totten of Visit Phoenix for an unfiltered conversation on risk, innovation, and the sameness plaguing the travel and tourism industry. The trio tackles the dangers of navel-gazing, the repetitive creative churn from agencies, and the cultural fear that stifles innovation across DMOs. Stuart shares behind-the-scenes details on the launch of Charlie’s Place, a six-part podcast three years in the making, now picked up by Pushkin Industries. It’s a masterclass in place-based storytelling and branded entertainment done right.

Steven explains why Visit Phoenix is approaching its DMO like a startup, embracing in-kind partnerships, retail-inspired merchandise drops, and intentionally choosing a creative agency outside the travel industry. The conversation dives deep into why risk-taking is feared, how comfort and inertia dominate DMO culture, and what it takes to break free—including strong internal communication, stakeholder education, and a shift from celebrating outcomes to celebrating strategic courage.

Key Topics:

 • Launch of Charlie’s Place podcast with Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and Pushkin

 • The problem with outsourcing vision to agencies

 • Risk aversion and fear-based culture in tourism

 • Why most DMO org charts and funding models are all over the map

 • The difference between celebrating risk vs. normalizing it

 • Startup mindset and treating innovation as the core mission

 • How Visit Phoenix is shifting perception through bold creative and ROI-focused partnerships