In this episode, Sam sits down with Ashley Oerman, author of Motherf*cked, to talk about navigating unhealthy, complicated, and even estranged family relationships. They discuss Ashley's relationship with her mom, which has been difficult for as long as she can remember, and dig into some studies, interviews with mental health professionals, and psychological theories (ever heard of secure vs. insecure attachment?). If you can relate to anything in this episode, the bottom line is a three-parter: 1. It's not your fault. 2. You're not alone. 3. You can heal.

Listen to this episode if you have a fucked up relationship (relative, friend, or even sometimes partner), and you want to feel seen or find healing.

Key moments:

04:20 What a dysfunctional relationship with your mom might look like (Ashley’s personal experience)

07:35 The #1 way it manifested in her adult life

13:11 Realizing her social anxiety and perfectionism were related to her mom

14:36 Resisting (and ultimately accepting) the idea that it was root-cause trauma

15:29 What inspired her to write the book

18:40 How your primary caregiver relationship influences you throughout your life

19:15 Attachment styles and their root causes in parent-child relationships

22:06 Does everything go back to childhood trauma? (Spoiler: Not necessarily!)

22:56 Secure vs. insecure attachment styles

26:26 Insecure attachment in childhood affects your family relationships MORE than your romantic ones

27:08 How our parents can set us up for success vs. screw us up

30:03 Studies that show how our parents continue to influence us as we grow up

30:35 Your closest relationship doesn’t mean it’s your healthiest

31:40 Expectations in messed up parent-child relationships

33:56 Different types of fucked up relationships you could have with your parents/primary caregivers

37:24 You can be close with your parent and it’s still not healthy…ever heard of enmeshment?

38:47 Having empathy for your parent vs. making excuses for them

42:30 What can you do within yourself to navigate these relationships?

43:21 Radical acceptance of these relationships

43:58 How, exactly, to grieve these relationships (even if the other person is still alive)

45:20 How to set boundaries if you suck at setting boundaries

47:32 How do you decide whether low or no contact is right for you?

50:21 Navigating feelings of guilt while setting boundaries

53:05 How talking about it helps

55:11 What it’s like to be on the other side of “doing the work”

Preorder Motherf*cked.

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