More at https://www.philosophytalk.org/shows/minds-and-matter.

Everything that seems to have a mind also has a body made of flesh and blood. But if we look at the diversity of animals found in the world, we find a huge variety of species that perceive and interact with the world in very different ways. Is there something all these species have in common? Are neurons and ganglia required, or can evolution generate consciousness in different ways? What can the study of evolutionary biology tell us about the nature of the mind? Josh and Ray sail away with Peter Godfrey-Smith from the University of Sydney, author of "Metazoa: Animal Life and the Birth of the Mind."