More at https://www.philosophytalk.org/shows/how-create-virtuous-leaders.

Ancient philosophers like Socrates and Plato believed that an education focused on developing good character could create virtuous leaders who work for the people, not their own benefit. Nowadays, though, it seems too many politicians are power hungry, corrupt, and out of touch. So how do we train our leaders to be more virtuous? Is good character something that can be taught? And what can we learn from the Ancients about how we can each lead an excellent life? Josh and Ray virtuously welcome back Massimo Pigliucci from the City College of New York, author of "The Quest for Character: What the Story of Socrates and Alcibiades Teaches Us about Our Search for Good Leaders."