More at https://www.philosophytalk.org/shows/weird-wants.

Philosophers from Thomas Aquinas to Elizabeth Anscombe have claimed that wanting something means seeing the good in it. Even if what you want is bad overall, like procrastinating on important work, you can still desire it for its positive qualities. But don't we sometimes want things because of their badness, not in spite of it? Isn't there joy in doing something totally pointless, or even in breaking the rules? And is it really impossible, logically speaking, to want to be bad? Josh and Ray unravel our weird wants with Paul Bloom from the University of Toronto, author of "The Sweet Spot: The Pleasures of Suffering and the Search for Meaning."