Is surfing really the soulful pursuit it claims to be — or just another brutal grind that no one warns you about?

In this soul-baring conversation, Michael sits down with filmmaker and artist Van Neistat to explore the deep frustrations of learning to surf, the myths around creative mastery, and the psychological tug-of-war between persistence and giving up. Whether you're chasing waves or chasing purpose, this episode will hit home.

• Hear Van’s honest confession about why he no longer surfs — and what it says about surf culture at large

• Discover the surprising connection between artistry, neurosis, and flow states

• Learn what Van has gained (and lost) through decades of chasing meaning via The Spirited Man

Play this episode to experience a raw, unfiltered conversation that will challenge how you think about surfing, art, and why we do hard things.

Key Points

• Persistence and time are essential for mastering surfing, akin to skiing where 'no friends on a powder day' reflects the competitive nature of the sport.

• Surfing culture is often secretive and competitive, with many participants not willing to share knowledge or resources, creating a challenging environment for newcomers.

• The complexity and cost of surfing, including the need for specialized equipment and suitable conditions, make it an inconvenient and expensive hobby.

• The love-hate relationship with surfing can turn into an addiction, impacting personal and professional life, leading to a desire for control over the relationship with the ocean.

• Artistic creation, like video-making, is a continuous struggle that requires discipline and persistence, despite the challenges of making a living from it.

• Art, particularly comedy, serves as a vital medium for transferring feelings and emotions, making comedians some of the most significant artists of our time.

• Tom Sachs' advice on leveraging corporate resources and maintaining artistic integrity while pursuing one's craft has been influential in monetizing artistic endeavors without compromising artistic values.

• The grind and dedication required in creative pursuits, such as making YouTube videos, necessitate a deep love for the craft to sustain the effort and passion needed for success.

• Podcasts and other audio mediums serve as a valuable resource for continuous learning and inspiration, replacing negative thoughts with more constructive and intelligent content.

• Surfing, unlike many professional sports, continues to be a beloved activity even after retirement, reflecting a deep personal connection and passion for the sport.

Links to some of his work:

The Spirited Man YouTube

https://www.patreon.com/spiritedman

Who Sets the Standard video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz_ETXDqdCU

How to Learn How to Surf

https://spiritedman.com

For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced.