John and Craig welcome writer and showrunner David E. Kelley (Big Little Lies, Ally McBeal) to look at his process for adapting books to TV, particularly with his latest series Margo's Got Money Troubles. They explore where to find your act breaks, crafting complicated tones, and when to trust the writer of the book.

We also look at how TV has changed over David's storied career, how he runs a writers room, creating story engines, the difference between writing for broadcast TV and streaming, and the one thing a TV show should never be.

In our bonus segment for premium members, David coaches John and Craig on how to survive a long running series.

Links:

• David E. Kelley on IMDb
• Margo's Got Money Troubles on AppleTV
• Harvard Alcohol Project: Designated Driver
• The Painful Truth About Long Covid by Alan Levinovitz for WIRED
• Salmon
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• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
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You can download the episode here.