In this episode of Edgy Ideas, Simon Western is joined by Fr. David McCallum, a Jesuit priest and Executive Director of the Program for Discerning Leadership. Together, they explore the unique leadership style of Pope Francis and what it means for the future of the Catholic Church - and humanity at large.

The conversation unfolds around the radical shift Pope Francis has led, prioritizing humility, listening, and symbolic action over institutional command. Fr. David shares moving anecdotes from his encounters with the Pope, offering insight into how leadership rooted in deep presence and discernment can inspire systemic change. They reflect on synodality as a leadership practice - a process rooted in dialogue, participation, and inclusion - and the ways it reorients traditional hierarchies toward relational and collective discernment.

They discuss how change often emerges from the margins rather than the center, and how Pope Francis embraced paradox and complexity rather than rushing to resolve it. In a world increasingly polarized, this leadership invites us to see difference as generative and to engage across divides with empathy and courage.

Looking ahead, the conversation calls on leaders across sectors to let go of rigid structures and embrace more inclusive, compassionate and participatory ways of leading. Through stories, reflection, and critical insight, this episode challenges the dominant narratives of leadership and offers a deeply human alternative.

Pope Francis, Jesuit leadership, synodality, listening, symbolic action, humility, Catholic Church, polarity, discernment, relational leadership, spiritual leadership, inclusion, soul at work

Fr. David McCallum, S.J., Ed.D, is a Jesuit priest from the USA who serves as the founding Executive Director of the Program for Discerning Leadership, a special initiative of the Society of Jesus headquartered in Rome. The Program provides leadership formation and organizational development support for senior Vatican officials and major superiors of religious orders headquartered in Rome and internationally. From 2021-2024, Fr. McCallum has worked with the Secretariat for the Synod of Bishops on the Commission on Methodology, as a member of the international group that developed the synthesis of the National and Regional Bishop’s Conferences reports at Frascati, and as a facilitator expert at the Synods in October 2023 and 2024. Formerly, Fr. McCallum served as faculty member and then the Dean of the Madden School of Business and as the VP of Mission Integration and Development at Le Moyne College in Syracuse, NY. His doctoral research at Teachers College, Columbia University, focused on the implications of developmental diversity in meeting the leadership challenges of conflict, complexity, and ambiguity.