This week on The Living Clean Podcast, we sit down with Ruben P., who first came onto Francis’s radar after his powerful share at the Northern California Convention of Narcotics Anonymous. This episode is more of a classic podcast-style conversation — unscripted, open, and free-flowing — and it goes in a lot of directions, all of them worth hearing.

One of the highlights of this conversation is Ruben sharing about George Hollahan, who served as the director of Narcotics Anonymous before Anthony E. Ruben gives us some incredible insight into just how amazing George was, both as a trusted servant and as a human being.

It’s rich with history, personal experience, and heartfelt reflection — we really hope you enjoy this one as much as we did.