The Living Clean Podcast

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Join Francis for a special two-part conversation with Mike R. from Mike and Chris’s Cool NA History Page.

Mike shares his personal journey: finding Narcotics Anonymous, getting clean, and the experiences that shaped his life and his connection to the fellowship.

Francis and Mike dive into their shared passion for Narcotics Anonymous history. They talk about collecting and preserving our history, the stories behind the memorabilia and literature, the people and events that helped shape NA, and why keeping these stories alive matters.

More than an interview, it’s a conversation between two addicts who genuinely love digging into NA’s past and preserving it for the future.

Two addicts. Two history enthusiasts. One shared passion for the story of Narcotics Anonymous.

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What does it take to preserve the history of Narcotics Anonymous, and what happens when a few dedicated members decide that the stories of those who came before us are too important to lose?

In this episode of The Living Clean Podcast, we're joined by members of the Northern California History and Archives Committee to discuss their journey from a small history project during the COVID-19 pandemic to becoming an officially recognized regional subcommittee dedicated to preserving the history of NA.

We explore how Art M. and Francis C. began connecting with longtime members and NA predecessors, the challenges they faced in gaining support within the service structure, and how the determination of local Areas helped establish the committee in 2023.

Along the way, we discuss the importance of oral histories, the preservation of photographs, letters, meeting directories, newsletters, and other historical materials, and the incredible work that has gone into recording more than 100 interviews by the end of 2024.

We also talk about the committee's efforts to digitize historical collections, including materials from the San Francisco Area Service Office, and their work documenting the development of NA throughout Northern California.

Looking ahead, we explore one of their most ambitious projects yet: a comprehensive history book documenting the growth of Narcotics Anonymous throughout Northern California.

One of the most powerful messages from this conversation is simple: "You Are the Book." Every member has a story, every Area has a history, and every generation has a responsibility to preserve what was freely given to us.

This episode is a reminder that the history of Narcotics Anonymous isn't just found in old documents or photographs. It lives in the experiences of the addicts who carried the message, built our service structure, opened meeting doors, and helped make recovery possible for those who followed.

Preserving our past. Documenting our journey. Sharing our history with future generations.

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Be the Change SeriesWhat does commitment look like in Narcotics Anonymous service?Sometimes it is as simple as showing up.In this special Be the Change episode, Dee M. from Cookeville, Tennessee joins David, Francis, Amanda, and Travis for a conversation about commitment and service and the first exercise in Be the Change #6: Spiritual Principles in NA Service.Exercise 1 — Showing UpSpiritual Principle: Commitment“When we come together in service, we connect with each other in a vital way.”— Guiding Principles, p. 13Commitment doesn't always require doing something big. It can mean arriving a few minutes early, staying until the work is finished, being dependable, and making ourselves available to the fellowship.We explore how simply showing up connects us to something greater than ourselves. When we place our time, energy, and willingness at the service of NA, we help strengthen our groups, support one another, and make sure the message remains available to the addict who still suffers.This week's practice:Arrive a few minutes early.Stay until everything is finished.Then ask yourself: How did simply showing up help carry the message today?Join Dee M., David, Francis, Amanda, and Travis as we talk about commitment, willingness, responsibility, and what happens when recovering addicts keep showing up for each other.You don't have to change everything.Show up. Be willing. Be the change.Come back for the next exercise in the Be the Change: Spiritual Principles in NA Service series on the Living Clean Podcast.

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This week on The Living Clean Podcast, we continue our journey through the Twelve Steps with Step Ten—the beginning of learning how to practice what we’ve gained in recovery as part of our everyday lives.

Our returning panel of Archer, Pete, and Douglas is back, and this week we’re joined by Ali and Rufus to talk about what it means to continue taking personal inventory.

Step Ten teaches us that recovery isn’t about reaching a point where we stop making mistakes. It’s about becoming willing to recognize them sooner, take responsibility for them, and make things right before they have a chance to pile up. We talk about daily inventory, promptly admitting when we’re wrong, watching for old patterns, and learning the difference between healthy self-examination and beating ourselves up.

We also explore what “promptly” really means, why admitting we’re wrong can still be difficult even after working the first nine steps, and how Step Ten helps prevent resentments, dishonesty, fear, and other problems from quietly building back into our lives.

The first nine steps have helped us clean up much of our past. Step Ten helps us keep today clean.

Join Archer, Pete, Douglas, Ali, and Rufus as we share experience, strength, and hope about living Step Ten—not perfectly, but consistently—and learning how regular inventory, accountability, and course correction can become a way of life.

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

Sometimes the best conversations are the ones you don’t plan.

In this spontaneous episode of The Living Clean Podcast, Francis sits down with J.W. for an open and personal conversation about where life has him today. J.W. shares about his current health issues, the spiritual principles that help him navigate difficult circumstances, and what recovery looks like when life shows up on life’s terms.

Along the way, Francis and J.W. talk about The Living Clean Podcast, Narcotics Anonymous, friendship, gratitude, spirituality, service, and a whole lot of other things in between. No agenda. No script. Just two addicts sitting down and sharing their experience with each other.

The heart of NA beats when two addicts share their recovery.

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

In this episode of The Living Clean Podcast, we sit down with the Māori woman from Aotearoa, New Zealand, who wrote “Kia Ora Koutou,” one of the personal stories published in the Narcotics Anonymous Basic Text.

The episode begins with a narration of her powerful story—a woman who entered treatment kicking and screaming, got clean partly out of stubbornness and spite, and slowly discovered hope through the message of Narcotics Anonymous. She shares honestly about the progression of her addiction, losing the trust of her whānau, surviving her earliest cravings ten minutes at a time, grieving her old way of life, and eventually rebuilding her relationship with her children, earning a university degree, and creating a life she once believed was impossible.

After hearing “Kia Ora Koutou,” we speak directly with its author about the experiences behind those words and everything that has happened during the 23 years since she wrote them. We explore her Māori identity, family, spirituality, recovery, and the many ways her understanding of hope and freedom has continued to grow.

This is more than an update to a story from the Basic Text. It is living proof that an addict can stop using, lose the desire to use, and find a new way to live.

Arohanui—big love.

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The Newcomer Montage returns with a second collection of voices speaking directly to the most important person in Narcotics Anonymous: the newcomer.

This montage covers episodes of The Living Clean Podcast from November 3, 2024, through December 28, 2025—a period that also represents an important chapter in the evolution of the podcast. It begins around the time Francis joins Mason as co-host, and the two begin recording together on a regular weekly basis.

During these conversations, Mason again starts making a point of asking our guests a simple question:

“Is there anything you would like to share with the newcomer?”

The answers were never scripted. Some are brief, some emotional, some practical, and some come from members with decades of experience. Put together, they become a collection of experience, strength, hope, encouragement, and reminders of what helped each person stay clean.

Through this episode, the purpose remains simple: carrying the message to the addict who still suffers.

If you're new, coming back, struggling, or simply need to remember what it felt like when you first walked through the doors, these voices are speaking to you.

Keep coming back. Give yourself a chance. Listen to the people who have walked this road before you. You never have to do this alone.

Welcome home.

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In this Living Clean Book Study episode, we begin the section “Spiritual and Emotional Crisis,” covering the first four paragraphs.

Recovery doesn’t mean we stop going through hard things. Sometimes the crisis isn’t about wanting to use—it’s about feeling disconnected, overwhelmed, uncertain, or struggling to make sense of what we’re going through.

We discuss what Living Clean has to say about these difficult periods, what they can reveal about where we are spiritually and emotionally, and how staying connected to recovery can help us move through them without returning to old ways of coping.

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

Mo returns to The Living Clean Podcast to lead a panel discussion exploring gender bias in sponsorship and the traditional “men with men, women with women” approach.

What happens when we look at sponsorship outside of heteronormative and binary thinking? How do gender, sexual orientation, attraction, safety, identification, and personal experience influence who we choose as a sponsor? And most importantly, how can we make sure the newcomer has access to the guidance and support they need?

Mo is joined by a panel representing different communities and perspectives:

Shane C. — Vacaville, California

Elaine — Ben Lomond, California

Veronica M. — Paradise, California

Evan — Tupelo, Mississippi

Got something to say to this podcast? Send a voicemail, and you might hear yourself on the next episode!

This week on The Living Clean Podcast, we sit down with Michael M., who has been clean since August 17, 1975.

Michael takes us back to his early days in recovery and shares what Narcotics Anonymous looked like at that time, including his involvement in the early development of the fellowship in his area and his experience attending the 7th World Convention.

From there, we get into Michael’s many years of service and some of the major changes he witnessed and participated in as NA grew. We talk about his involvement with It Works: How and Why, the Sixth Edition of the Basic Text, the development of the first World Board, and his experience serving as the first chair of the World Board.

Along the way, Michael shares stories from more than 50 years of recovery and service and gives us a firsthand look at some of the people, decisions, challenges, and changes that helped shape Narcotics Anonymous into the worldwide fellowship it is today.

There is a whole lot of NA history in this one, but more importantly, there is a whole lot of recovery.

Join us for a conversation with Michael M., clean since August 17, 1975, on this week’s episode of The Living Clean Podcast.