A Couple of Multiples: The Reality of Living with Dissociative Identity Disorder

Drew & Garden System discuss the healing journey from childhood abuse and dissociative identity disorder with Bonnie Armstrong, the author of An Apparently Normal Person. Bonnie's story is unique in that she worked in child welfare and advocacy without realizing she, too, was a survivor of childhood abuse. Her medical struggles helped her uncover the truth about her past.

Bonnie R. Armstrong spent decades as an apparently normal person, unaware of the complex dissociative infrastructure that hid much of her childhood from her conscious memory and supported her from inside. Bonnie enjoyed her life as wife, mother, community activist, and a 40-year career that included high-level positions in two Governors' offices. She served as an expert consultant on child and family policy issues with federal, state, county and local governments and philanthropies, and as a national speaker and trainer. She specialized in youth development and child abuse prevention, not knowing that she was also an abuse survivor. 

When she turned fifty, a mysterious and debilitating illness attacked Bonnie, eventually requiring her to use a wheelchair to continue her active life. After six years of testing and continued degeneration, her neurologist ruled out medical causes and referred her to a psychologist. Together, Bonnie and her therapist slowly uncovered her dissociative disorder, her strong internal community, and the secrets of her childhood. 

Now she has written a memoir that chronicles her healing journey and the ways her system used dissociation to survive and thrive.  An Apparently Normal Person: From Medical Mystery to Dissociative Superpower has won several awards and was an Amazon best-seller. Bonnie continues to speak out and write about dissociation and childhood trauma. She also is a life coach, a grandmother and the matriarch of a large extended family. She and her internal community live collaboratively, focused on their joint life's purpose to break generational cycles of abuse and to use every moment and interaction to create a more loving, harmonious world. 

Visit Bonnie's website:  https://www.bonnierarmstrong.com/

Buy Bonnie's book, An Apparently Normal Person, here: https://amzn.to/4sl5TsC

Thank you to our sponsors:

An Infinite Mind: https://www.aninfinitemind.org/

Healing My Parts:  https://www.healingmyparts.org/

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem, @mindfulmultiplicityinstitute

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239 

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

This podcast is for education and sharing experiences. It is not therapy, medical advice, or a substitute for individualized care from a qualified professional. The experiences and perspectives shared here may not reflect those of every system. Guest views are their own. Listening does not establish a therapeutic relationship.

This episode discusses trauma, dissociation, and therapy. Please listen at your own pace and pause or step away whenever you need to.

And most importantly: remember that every system is different. What works for one may not work for another—and that’s okay. Your journey is valid, your healing is real, and we’re so glad you’re hanging out with A Couple of Multiples.

Articles cited in Seasons 4 & 5:

Brand, B. L., Sar, V., Stavropoulos, P., Krüger, C., Korzekwa, M., Martínez-Taboas, A., & Middleton, W. (2016). Separating Fact from Fiction: An Empirical Examination of S...

Drew & Garden System have an in depth discussion about surviving and healing from cult torture and abuse with Cheryl Rainfield, a survivor living with poly-fragmented dissociative identities. who used creative writing as a tool for healing and to shed light on the truth on cults and human trafficking.

Award-winning author Cheryl Rainfield is a nonbinary lesbian who writes novels for teens, drawing on their own trauma and healing experience to write. They’re the author of six books including SCARS, STAINED, HUNTED, and VISIONS; SCARS has their own arm on the cover. Cheryl is a cult torture survivor with resulting polyfragmented Dissociative Identity, and talks about these issues on social media and through articles on their website. Cheryl Rainfield has been said to write with “great empathy and compassion” and to write stories that “can, perhaps, save a life.”

CherylRainfield.com . TikTok . Facebook . Instagram . YouTube

Cheryl also published an article about how cults utilize aspects of EMDR in their torture and modifications for therapists to help overcome these barriers. Check it out here:  https://www.cherylrainfield.com/cult-uses-aspects-of-emdr-in-cult-torture/.

Thank you to our sponsors:

Petals of a Rose:  https://www.dylancrumpler.com/watch-petals-of-a-rose

Healing Selves Therapeutics: https://www.healingselvestherapeuticspllc.com/

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem, @mindfulmultiplicityinstitute

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239 

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

This podcast is for education and sharing experiences. It is not therapy, medical advice, or a substitute for individualized care from a qualified professional. The experiences and perspectives shared here may not reflect those of every system. Guest views are their own. Listening does not establish a therapeutic relationship.

This episode discusses trauma, dissociation, and therapy. Please listen at your own pace and pause or step away whenever you need to.

And most importantly: remember that every system is different. What works for one may not work for another—and that’s okay. Your journey is valid, your healing is real, and we’re so glad you’re hanging out with A Couple of Multiples.

Articles cited in Seasons 4 & 5:

Brand, B. L., Sar, V., Stavropoulos, P., Krüger, C., Korzekwa, M., Martínez-Taboas, A., & Middleton, W. (2016). Separating Fact from Fiction: An Empirical Examination of S...

Drew & Garden System share powerful healing stories from Jade Miller, a peer support specialist.  Jade Miller is a multiple, writer, and peer support worker who helps others living with dissociative experiences find community, language, and grounding. Through her coaching at Peer Support for Multiples and her upcoming Safe Harbor Peer Respite Center, she's building spaces where complexity and healing can coexist. Her teaching and writing emphasize belonging, integrity, and the quiet power of survivors leading their own recovery.

Safe Harbor Peer Respite Center

Thank you to our sponsors!

Alix Amar with Dissociative Creative Explorations

Healing My Parts

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem, @mindfulmultiplicityinstitute

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239 

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

This podcast is for education and sharing experiences. It is not therapy, medical advice, or a substitute for individualized care from a qualified professional. The experiences and perspectives shared here may not reflect those of every system. Guest views are their own. Listening does not establish a therapeutic relationship.

This episode discusses trauma, dissociation, and therapy. Please listen at your own pace and pause or step away whenever you need to.

And most importantly: remember that every system is different. What works for one may not work for another—and that’s okay. Your journey is valid, your healing is real, and we’re so glad you’re hanging out with A Couple of Multiples.

Articles cited in Seasons 4 & 5:

Brand, B. L., Sar, V., Stavropoulos, P., Krüger, C., Korzekwa, M., Martínez-Taboas, A., & Middleton, W. (2016). Separating Fact from Fiction: An Empirical Examination of S...

Welcome to Season 5!

Dr. Frank W. Putnam shares the results from a 35 year long study, the Female Growth & Development Study, which he co-founded with the late Penelope K Trickett, PhD, on the effects of childhood maltreatment, particularly childhood sexual abuse.

Frank W. Putnam, MD, is a child and adolescent psychiatrist and an internationally recognized expert on the health effects of child abuse and family violence. He helped to create the Dissociative Experiences Scale.

You can buy a copy of Dr. Frank W. Putnam's book here:  https://amzn.to/4bPU2gc

Thank you to our sponsors:

Transitions Delaware LLC

Healing Selves Therapeutics PLLC

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem, @mindfulmultiplicityinstitute

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239 

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

This podcast is for education and sharing experiences. It is not therapy, medical advice, or a substitute for individualized care from a qualified professional. The experiences and perspectives shared here may not reflect those of every system. Guest views are their own. Listening does not establish a therapeutic relationship.

This episode discusses trauma, dissociation, and therapy. Please listen at your own pace and pause or step away whenever you need to.

And most importantly: remember that every system is different. What works for one may not work for another—and that’s okay. Your journey is valid, your healing is real, and we’re so glad you’re hanging out with A Couple of Multiples.

Articles cited in Seasons 4 & 5:

Brand, B. L., Sar, V., Stavropoulos, P., Krüger, C., Korzekwa, M., Martínez-Taboas, A., & Middleton, W. (2016). Separating Fact from Fiction: An Empirical Examination of S...

Drew & Garden System share a deep and personal story of how disclosure and having this podcast affected their personal lives. They discuss the consequences of fear and stigma that people with dissociative identity disorder face. They address system management, switching, and littles and how their systems work together to maintain employment and lead successful lives. 

Thank you to our sponsors:

Healing Selves Therapeutics

Petals of a Rose

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem, @mindfulmultiplicityinstitute

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239 

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

This podcast is for education and sharing experiences. It is not therapy, medical advice, or a substitute for individualized care from a qualified professional. The experiences and perspectives shared here may not reflect those of every system. Guest views are their own. Listening does not establish a therapeutic relationship.

This episode discusses trauma, dissociation, and therapy. Please listen at your own pace and pause or step away whenever you need to.

And most importantly: remember that every system is different. What works for one may not work for another—and that’s okay. Your journey is valid, your healing is real, and we’re so glad you’re hanging out with A Couple of Multiples.

Articles cited in Seasons 4 & 5:

Brand, B. L., Sar, V., Stavropoulos, P., Krüger, C., Korzekwa, M., Martínez-Taboas, A., & Middleton, W. (2016). Separating Fact from Fiction: An Empirical Examination of S...

An unscripted interview: Drew & Garden System discuss supporting the challenges of living with dissociative identity disorder. Topics include disclosure, boundaries, and ideas for those who are supporting loved ones with DID.

Thank you to our sponsors:

Healing Selves Therapeutics

To Life! Counseling

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem, @mindfulmultiplicityinstitute

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239 

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

This podcast is for education and sharing experiences. It is not therapy, medical advice, or a substitute for individualized care from a qualified professional. The experiences and perspectives shared here may not reflect those of every system. Guest views are their own. Listening does not establish a therapeutic relationship.

This episode discusses trauma, dissociation, and therapy. Please listen at your own pace and pause or step away whenever you need to.

And most importantly: remember that every system is different. What works for one may not work for another—and that’s okay. Your journey is valid, your healing is real, and we’re so glad you’re hanging out with A Couple of Multiples.

Articles cited in Seasons 4 & 5:

Brand, B. L., Sar, V., Stavropoulos, P., Krüger, C., Korzekwa, M., Martínez-Taboas, A., & Middleton, W. (2016). Separating Fact from Fiction: An Empirical Examination of S...

Drew & Garden System have an illuminating conversation with Dr. Jamie+ Marich on recovery, the 12 step program, and dissociative identity disorder. They touch on important topics such as sponsors, adaptations and language, and considerations needed for recovery.

Resources: https://jamiemarich.substack.com/p/does-aa-work 

Thank you to our sponsors:
The Institute for Creative Mindfulness & Healing Selves Therapeutics!

Visit acoupleofmultiples.com to learn more about our online community, consultations, and to join our mailing list to keep up to date with Drew & Garden System!

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem, @mindfulmultiplicityinstitute

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239 

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

This podcast is for education and sharing experiences. It is not therapy, medical advice, or a substitute for individualized care from a qualified professional. The experiences and perspectives shared here may not reflect those of every system. Guest views are their own. Listening does not establish a therapeutic relationship.

This episode discusses trauma, dissociation, and therapy. Please listen at your own pace and pause or step away whenever you need to.

And most importantly: remember that every system is different. What works for one may not work for another—and that’s okay. Your journey is valid, your healing is real, and we’re so glad you’re hanging out with A Couple of Multiples.

Articles cited in Seasons 4 & 5:

Brand, B. L., Sar, V., Stavropoulos, P., Krüger, C., Korzekwa, M., Martínez-Taboas, A., & Middleton, W. (2016). Separating Fact from Fiction: An Empirical Examination of S...

Drew & Garden System discuss all things related to ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, other psychedelics, and dissociative identity disorder with Melissas Parker, LMHC.

Thank you to our sponsors: (sponsorship of this episode does not indicate an endorsement of KAP or psychedelic therapies.)
Healing Selves Therapeutics - https://www.healingselvestherapeuticspllc.com/
Yvonne Fall, LPC -https://www.yvonnefalllpc.com/

Resources:
Maps.org
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10979792/
https://www.natalierusspsyd.com/therapy-harm
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/ketamine-for-depression

Visit acoupleofmultiples.com to join our private, online DID community ($10 or $30/monthly memberships), schedule consultations, and join our mailing list!

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem, @mindfulmultiplicityinstitute

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239 

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

This podcast is for education and sharing experiences. It is not therapy, medical advice, or a substitute for individualized care from a qualified professional. The experiences and perspectives shared here may not reflect those of every system. Guest views are their own. Listening does not establish a therapeutic relationship.

This episode discusses trauma, dissociation, and therapy. Please listen at your own pace and pause or step away whenever you need to.

And most importantly: remember that every system is different. What works for one may not work for another—and that’s okay. Your journey is valid, your healing is real, and we’re so glad you’re hanging out with A Couple of Multiples.

Articles cited in Seasons 4 & 5:

Brand, B. L., Sar, V., Stavropoulos, P., Krüger, C., Korzekwa, M., Martínez-Taboas, A., & Middleton, W. (2016). Separating Fact from Fiction: An Empirical Examination of S...

Drew & Garden System have an open-hearted discussion with Rev. Karla Fleshman on her contributions to Queering EMDR Therapy, an upcoming book edited by Roshni Chabra LMFT and with a forward by Dr. Jamie Marich. They dive into Rev. Karla's battle with cancer, spirituality, how gender identity can contribute to dissociative experiences, and how one can find healing and community.

Preorder Queering EMDR Therapy here:  https://queeringemdr.com/

You can reach out to Rev. Karla Fleshman LCSW MDiv here:  https://transitionsde.com/about-karla-fleshman-lcsw-mdiv-2/

Thank you to our sponsors:
To Life! Counseling - https://tolifecounseling.com/
Healing Selves Therapeutics - https://www.healingselvestherapeuticspllc.com/

Visit acoupleofmultiples.com to contact us, to schedule a consult with Garden System, to join Hearts Multiplied, our on-line DID community, and join our mailing list for exclusive resources!

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem, @mindfulmultiplicityinstitute

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239 

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

This podcast is for education and sharing experiences. It is not therapy, medical advice, or a substitute for individualized care from a qualified professional. The experiences and perspectives shared here may not reflect those of every system. Guest views are their own. Listening does not establish a therapeutic relationship.

This episode discusses trauma, dissociation, and therapy. Please listen at your own pace and pause or step away whenever you need to.

And most importantly: remember that every system is different. What works for one may not work for another—and that’s okay. Your journey is valid, your healing is real, and we’re so glad you’re hanging out with A Couple of Multiples.

Articles cited in Seasons 4 & 5:

Brand, B. L., Sar, V., Stavropoulos, P., Krüger, C., Korzekwa, M., Martínez-Taboas, A., & Middleton, W. (2016). Separating Fact from Fiction: An Empirical Examination of S...

Drew & Garden System engage Dr. Mike Lloyd of the CTAD clinic in the UK in an educational conversation about recognizing, diagnosing, and treating dissociative identity disorder.

Thank you to our episode sponsors:
Healing Selves Therapeutics https://www.healingselvestherapeuticspllc.com/  &  To Life! Counseling https://tolifecounseling.com/

Visit our website acoupleofmultiples.com to learn more about our online community, peer coaching, and consultations! 

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem, @mindfulmultiplicityinstitute

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239 

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

This podcast is for education and sharing experiences. It is not therapy, medical advice, or a substitute for individualized care from a qualified professional. The experiences and perspectives shared here may not reflect those of every system. Guest views are their own. Listening does not establish a therapeutic relationship.

This episode discusses trauma, dissociation, and therapy. Please listen at your own pace and pause or step away whenever you need to.

And most importantly: remember that every system is different. What works for one may not work for another—and that’s okay. Your journey is valid, your healing is real, and we’re so glad you’re hanging out with A Couple of Multiples.

Articles cited in Seasons 4 & 5:

Brand, B. L., Sar, V., Stavropoulos, P., Krüger, C., Korzekwa, M., Martínez-Taboas, A., & Middleton, W. (2016). Separating Fact from Fiction: An Empirical Examination of S...