Drew & Garden System have an insightful and informative conversation with Dr. Alison Miller, the author of Demystifying Mind Control & Ritual Abuse: A Manual for Therapists. Dr. Alison Miller shares important signs that therapists should be aware of when assessing for ritual abuse in their clients with DID and provides education on overcoming the programming of mind control.

Thank you to our amazing sponsors:

Institute for Creative Mindfulness

Petals of a Rose

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Drew & Garden System discuss in-patient/hospitalization care for people living with dissociative identity disorder with Donna Earle, LPC, CCPT. They cover important topics such as helpful tips for hospital staff, the differences between the different levels of care, and identifying potential treatment centers. 

Please note that the hospitals and treatment centers listed are NOT recommended or endorsed by A Couple of Multiples/Mindful Multiplicity Institute LLC. Please research facilities before admittance.

Facilities mentioned include: 

Sierra Tucson in Arizona:  https://www.sierratucson.com/ 

Sanctuary Centers in Santa Barbara:  https://sanctuarycenters.org/ 

The Meadows in Wickenburg, Arizona:  https://www.themeadows.com/ 

The Meadows in Dallas, Texas:  https://meadowsoutpatient.com/locations/dallas-tx/ 

River Oaks in New Orleans, Louisiana: https://riveroakshospital.com/ 

Khiron Clinics in the UK:  https://khironclinics.com/

Thank you to this episode's sponsors:

Healing Selves Therapeutics

To Life! Counseling

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Drew & Garden System have a candid conversation with Amy Wagner, LMFT/LMHC! Amy Wagner is an EMDRIA approved consultant and they all discuss the many dos and don'ts of using EMDR when clients live with dissociative identity disorder. They discuss the eight phases, resourcing skills, and what to do when clients dissociate or switch during session. You won't want to miss this amazing discussion!

Thank to our sponsors for this episode:

Alix Amar with Dissociative Creative Explorations

Healing Selves Therapeutics

Amy Wagner,  is a Holistic Trauma Transformation therapist who helps people reclaim the intuitive and connected relationships in the most important parts of their lives.  She is an EMDRIA Approved Consultant and Advanced EMDR Topics Trainer. 

She owns a boutique group trauma therapy practice in Orlando, specializing in working with clients who experience complex and developmental trauma.  Amy loves to use EMDR and Expressive Arts to help clients on their healing journey.

Amy lives a multi-faceted life, both internally and externally.  After dropping out of college to begin a dance studio at age 19, Amy helped dancers get to their big stage for 15 years.  When life pivoted, she began a real estate career as she raised her two children.  A spiritual calling and her own inner healing led her back to college and then grad school to become a relationship and trauma therapist as her children went off to college.  As a therapist, Amy has been transformative in helping other therapists learn to reduce stigma and embrace the healing journey of trauma transformation for their clients.  Her course, Soul of Dissociation, sold out during the first two offerings.  Amy is on a mission to help healers embrace collective healing by reducing the stigma of “othering”.  Amy is passionate about the interplay of intergenerational trauma, peak performance and athlete mental health which she discusses in the book in progress, “Cart Path Only”.

When not working, Amy travels the world with her professional golfer daughter, visits her son and daughter-in-love in VA, and spends abundant time with her family.  She lives in Windermere, FL with her husband and sweet golden retriever.

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Did you know that dissociative disorders are almost as common as mood disorders? Drew & Garden System chat with Dorinna Ruh, LCSW and cover valuable information about prevalence rates, how to recognize dissociation in yourself or in your client, ways to assess for a dissociative disorder, and a few EMDR tips as well! If you're working with complex trauma, then you're working with dissociation. You won't want to miss this episode!

About Dorinna Ruh, LCSW:

Dorinna’s career has spanned 34 years, as she became a counselor in 1989, working in the substance abuse field. She obtained her Master’s Degree in Social Work from the State University of New York in 1995.

After moving to Fort Collins, Colorado in 1999, she started a private practice. She was trained in Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) in 2001 and found that this therapy was so powerful and such a good fit for her that it has been her primary lens since then.  By 2010 she was both certified in and an approved consultant in EMDR therapy. For the past 9 years she has facilitated EMDR trainings for HAP/Trauma recovery and is currently a trainer candidate.

She specializes in working with complex trauma and dissociative disorders and in addition to her therapy practice, she offers consultation and training for other therapists through her consultation business Advanced EMDR Education. 

Group consultation for EMDR certification and for advanced practitioners geared toward treating complex trauma. 

Individual consultation. 

Consultation link is https://advanced-emdr-education.com/consultation-groups

Trainings on Demand: 

Link is https://trainings.advanced-emdr-education.com/collections

Therapy Snapshots — one-hour low-cost training on topics that have been super important to me:  

• EMDR Treatment Planning and Target Sequencing; 
• Karpman's Drama Triangle as a Lens for Countertransference;
•  Internal Healing Dialogue; 
• Creative Resourcing; 
• Building Internal Scaffolding with Ideal Parent

Weaving in Cognitive Interweaves - a three-hour EMDRIA-approved class

EMDR and Dissocation from the Beginning - a 12-hour EMDRIA-approved class that focuses on phases 1 and 2 of EMDR therapy.

Thank you to our Sponsors for this Episode:

https://www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com/

https://www.dylancrumpler.com/watch-petals-of-a-rose

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Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem

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Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

Note: We highly encourage you to listen to Parts I & II before listening to this episode, as we continue to honor our truth and authenticity, which may feel more intense than the previous episodes on this subject. We would like for you to be able to determine if this episode will be something you want to listen to or pass on, so here are some details of what we share in this season 3 finale. The first thing we talk about is being "turned on" and how that isn’t always a good feeling and can be triggering. And then we talk about the Big O, but just so you know, we use the actual word and all the actual words in this episode, and also colorful language here and there. We also talk about selves that were created to quote “like” sex, and we discuss flashbacks, body memories and switching. We talk about how we manage our sexual selves, including perceptions of feeling like a perpetrator. We go over the topic of consent, and we also talk about the feelings of guilt that come up for either wanting sex or not wanting sex when in a romantic relationship. Please remember that you may pause and come back if you feel yourself or selves feeling triggered or dissociated. Please take good care of yourself or selves while listening.

Please visit acoupleofmultiples.com to see all of our current offerings!

Our amazing sponsors for Season 3:
The Institute for Creative Mindfulness, one of the largest EMDR Therapy training programs in North America is directed by Dr. Jamie+ Marich, the only EMDR therapy trainer who is “out” as a plural and offers the full EMDR Therapy basic training in a way that honors lived experience and destigmatizes dissociation in clinical work. We felt so validated when we were able to authentically participate in this training as Garden System! Go to www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com for a full list of upcoming trainings, both online and in-person, offered by Dr. Jamie and her selected network of EMDR trainers.

Dr. Wendy Aporta, with Bearings Therapy, is a marriage and family therapist specializing in military and first responder individuals, families, and couples.  She is proficient with clients experiencing PTSD, CPTSD, and dissociative disorders. For her, helping those with traumatic experiences is not just a job, it is a vocation. She is experienced in multiple modalities, and utilizes whatever is best for her client's needs. She stays abreast of the latest research and treatments to provide the best possible outcomes for her clients. Call Bearings Therapy today: 214-892-2158

As a certified Internal Family Systems licensed therapist, Tiffany Morgan, owner of Holistic Self-Healing Psychotherapy, specializes in working with dissociative identities through IFS and sculpting. Known affectionately as 'Ocean,' she brings lived experience with dissociative identities and anorexia. Offering consulting, psychotherapy, training, and authoring a book on personal and professional experiences in these areas. Visit www.tiffanycobbmorgan.com  or call (520) 582-9313 for more information.

Alix Amar, LCSW offers Creative

Send us a text

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem

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Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

Drew & Garden System have a candid conversation with Garden System's two oldest children, both adults now, about what it was like growing up with a parent that has dissociative identity disorder. 

Please visit acoupleofmultiples.com to see all of our current offerings!

Our amazing sponsors for Season 3:
The Institute for Creative Mindfulness, one of the largest EMDR Therapy training programs in North America is directed by Dr. Jamie+ Marich, the only EMDR therapy trainer who is “out” as a plural and offers the full EMDR Therapy basic training in a way that honors lived experience and destigmatizes dissociation in clinical work. We felt so validated when we were able to authentically participate in this training as Garden System! Go to www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com for a full list of upcoming trainings, both online and in-person, offered by Dr. Jamie and her selected network of EMDR trainers.

Dr. Wendy Aporta, with Bearings Therapy, is a marriage and family therapist specializing in military and first responder individuals, families, and couples.  She is proficient with clients experiencing PTSD, CPTSD, and dissociative disorders. For her, helping those with traumatic experiences is not just a job, it is a vocation. She is experienced in multiple modalities, and utilizes whatever is best for her client's needs. She stays abreast of the latest research and treatments to provide the best possible outcomes for her clients. Call Bearings Therapy today: 214-892-2158

As a certified Internal Family Systems licensed therapist, Tiffany Morgan, owner of Holistic Self-Healing Psychotherapy, specializes in working with dissociative identities through IFS and sculpting. Known affectionately as 'Ocean,' she brings lived experience with dissociative identities and anorexia. Offering consulting, psychotherapy, training, and authoring a book on personal and professional experiences in these areas. Visit www.tiffanycobbmorgan.com  or call (520) 582-9313 for more information.

Alix Amar, LCSW offers Creative Art classes and series including the Creative Journal, Soul Collage and Altered Books, all on the Zoom Platform exclusively for people living with dissociation.  The 8-week winter series of the Creative Journal begins in early March.  For more information check out her website at alixamar.com

Send us a text

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem

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Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

Drew & Garden System give an off script interview of each other and share personal stories of what it is like to be a parent when you have dissociative identity disorder. They each dive into topics such as how different selves show up as a parent, interact with the children, and how they navigate the challenges that having DID brings to the role of parenthood. They also touch on the challenges of being a blended family.

Please visit acoupleofmultiples.com to see all of our current offerings!

Our amazing sponsors for Season 3:
The Institute for Creative Mindfulness, one of the largest EMDR Therapy training programs in North America is directed by Dr. Jamie+ Marich, the only EMDR therapy trainer who is “out” as a plural and offers the full EMDR Therapy basic training in a way that honors lived experience and destigmatizes dissociation in clinical work. We felt so validated when we were able to authentically participate in this training as Garden System! Go to www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com for a full list of upcoming trainings, both online and in-person, offered by Dr. Jamie and her selected network of EMDR trainers.

Dr. Wendy Aporta, with Bearings Therapy, is a marriage and family therapist specializing in military and first responder individuals, families, and couples.  She is proficient with clients experiencing PTSD, CPTSD, and dissociative disorders. For her, helping those with traumatic experiences is not just a job, it is a vocation. She is experienced in multiple modalities, and utilizes whatever is best for her client's needs. She stays abreast of the latest research and treatments to provide the best possible outcomes for her clients. Call Bearings Therapy today: 214-892-2158

As a certified Internal Family Systems licensed therapist, Tiffany Morgan, owner of Holistic Self-Healing Psychotherapy, specializes in working with dissociative identities through IFS and sculpting. Known affectionately as 'Ocean,' she brings lived experience with dissociative identities and anorexia. Offering consulting, psychotherapy, training, and authoring a book on personal and professional experiences in these areas. Visit www.tiffanycobbmorgan.com  or call (520) 582-9313 for more information.

Alix Amar, LCSW offers Creative Art classes and series including the Creative Journal, Soul Collage and Altered Books, all on the Zoom Platform exclusively for people living with dissociation.  The 8-week winter series of the Creative Journal begins in early March.  For more information check out her website at alixamar.com

Send us a text

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

Drew and Garden System talk about how in the beginning a system feels separated from each other, even feeling like enemies. There often is difficulty in listening to selves, because it is hard to learn and believe what parts hold and about trauma that occurred. They talk about how they developed relationships within their systems, navigating selves with different values, beliefs and behaviors. Drew and Garden System share personal stories about improving relationships by building trust, figuring out what is important to different selves, compromising and coming together as systems. Also covered is the often necessary topic of adult selves looking after and reparenting younger or little selves. The episode concludes that offering gratitude to your selves for all the strengths they bring to your system as a whole helps all of yous feel appreciated and loved. Your relationship with all of your selves will ultimately help yous heal.

Please visit acoupleofmultiples.com to see all of our current offerings!

Our amazing sponsors for Season 3:
The Institute for Creative Mindfulness, one of the largest EMDR Therapy training programs in North America is directed by Dr. Jamie+ Marich, the only EMDR therapy trainer who is “out” as a plural and offers the full EMDR Therapy basic training in a way that honors lived experience and destigmatizes dissociation in clinical work. We felt so validated when we were able to authentically participate in this training as Garden System! Go to www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com for a full list of upcoming trainings, both online and in-person, offered by Dr. Jamie and her selected network of EMDR trainers.

Dr. Wendy Aporta, with Bearings Therapy, is a marriage and family therapist specializing in military and first responder individuals, families, and couples.  She is proficient with clients experiencing PTSD, CPTSD, and dissociative disorders. For her, helping those with traumatic experiences is not just a job, it is a vocation. She is experienced in multiple modalities, and utilizes whatever is best for her client's needs. She stays abreast of the latest research and treatments to provide the best possible outcomes for her clients. Call Bearings Therapy today: 214-892-2158

As a certified Internal Family Systems licensed therapist, Tiffany Morgan, owner of Holistic Self-Healing Psychotherapy, specializes in working with dissociative identities through IFS and sculpting. Known affectionately as 'Ocean,' she brings lived experience with dissociative identities and anorexia. Offering consulting, psychotherapy, training, and authoring a book on personal and professional experiences in these areas. Visit www.tiffanycobbmorgan.com  or call (520) 582-9313 for more information.

Alix Amar, LCSW offers Creative Art classes and series including the Creative Journal, Soul Collage and Altered Books, all on the Zoom Platform exclusively for people living with dissociation.  The 8-week winter series of the Creative Journal begins in early March.  For more information check out her website at

Send us a text

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

Drew & Garden System go more in depth about sex & intimacy and how it affects one's romantic relationship. They talk about sexual alters, the challenges littles bring, and how they have navigated personal experiences in the moment. They wrap up discussing shame and how they came into acceptance of their sexuality. Obvious trigger warnings apply.

Interested in attending the System Mapping workshop this Friday, January 17th from 7pm EST to 11pm EST? You can sign up here:  https://calendly.com/mindfulmultiplicity/system-mapping-workshop.

Interested in joining our paid on-line community, Hearts Multiplied? Sign up for an information meeting here:  https://calendly.com/mindfulmultiplicity/hearts-multiplied-did-community-introduction-meeting.

Would you like to chat/consult with Drew & Garden System one-on-one? You can sign up here: https://calendly.com/mindfulmultiplicity/consult-with-a-couple-of-multiples.

If you enjoyed this episode please leave us a review! You can visit our website at: acoupleofmultiples.com. Remember, every system is unique and your experiences may be different from ours. And that’s okay! You matter and are loved for being all of yous.

Our amazing Season 3 sponsors:
The Institute for Creative Mindfulness, one of the largest EMDR Therapy training programs in North America is directed by Dr. Jamie+ Marich, the only EMDR therapy trainer who is “out” as a plural and offers the full EMDR Therapy basic training in a way that honors lived experience and destigmatizes dissociation in clinical work. We felt so validated when we were able to authentically participate in this training as Garden System! Go to www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com for a full list of upcoming trainings, both online and in-person, offered by Dr. Jamie and her selected network of EMDR trainers.

Dr. Wendy Aporta, with Bearings Therapy, is a marriage and family therapist specializing in military and first responder individuals, families, and couples.  She is proficient with clients experiencing PTSD, CPTSD, and dissociative disorders. For her, helping those with traumatic experiences is not just a job, it is a vocation. She is experienced in multiple modalities, and utilizes whatever is best for her client's needs. She stays abreast of the latest research and treatments to provide the best possible outcomes for her clients. Call Bearings Therapy today: 214-892-2158

As a certified Internal Family Systems licensed therapist, Tiffany Morgan, owner of Holistic Self-Healing Psychotherapy, specializes in working with dissociative identities through IFS and sculpting. Known affectionately as 'Ocean,' she brings lived experience with dissociative identities and anorexia. Offering consulting, psychotherapy, training, and authoring a book on personal and professional experiences in these areas. Visit www.tiffanycobbmorgan.com  or call (520) 582-9313 for more infor

Send us a text

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!

Drew & Garden System have a friendly conversation with Jaime Pollack, founder of An Infinite Mind and the Healing Together conference for those with dissociative disorders, their supporters, and mental health clinicians. They talk about the power of community and how finding others with DID have positively impacted their healing journey. Jaime shares pertinent information about the Healing Together conference that is held each year in Orlando, Florida, with the next one coming up on February 14th - 16th 2025! You can register now by visiting https://www.aninfinitemind.org/healing-together-conference.

Jaime Pollack lives in Central Florida where she works as a district Pre-K special education resource teacher. She also works part-time as an in-home early interventionist for special needs children aged birth to three. In 2005, she was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) resulting from childhood trauma. Jaime searched for support only to find there were very limited resources available. Her efforts to find support for herself led her to seek out other survivors living with the disorder. As she found others living with DID, she witnessed firsthand the challenges they shared and decided to shift her focus to help others, like herself, living with DID. Her passion to help others led to the creation of An Infinite Mind in January of 2008. Jaime spends her free time traveling with her husband, being out in nature, and snuggling her dog and 2 cats on the couch.

If you enjoyed this episode please leave us a review! You can visit our website at: acoupleofmultiples.com. Remember, every system is unique and your experiences may be different from ours. And that’s okay! You matter and are loved for being all of yous.

Our amazing Season 3 sponsors:
The Institute for Creative Mindfulness, one of the largest EMDR Therapy training programs in North America is directed by Dr. Jamie+ Marich, the only EMDR therapy trainer who is “out” as a plural and offers the full EMDR Therapy basic training in a way that honors lived experience and destigmatizes dissociation in clinical work. We felt so validated when we were able to authentically participate in this training as Garden System! Go to www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com for a full list of upcoming trainings, both online and in-person, offered by Dr. Jamie and her selected network of EMDR trainers.

Dr. Wendy Aporta, with Bearings Therapy, is a marriage and family therapist specializing in military and first responder individuals, families, and couples.  She is proficient with clients experiencing PTSD, CPTSD, and dissociative disorders. For her, helping those with traumatic experiences is not just a job, it is a vocation. She is experienced in multiple modalities, and utilizes whatever is best for her client's needs. She stays abreast of the latest research and treatments to provide the best possible outcomes for her clients. Call Bearings Therapy today: 214-892-2158

As a certified Internal Family Systems licensed therapist, Tiffany Morgan, owner of Holistic Self-Heal

Send us a text

Follow us on Instagram: @acoupleofmultiples, @note_to_selves, @seidi_gardensystem

Follow us on TikTok: @seidi_gardensystem, @note_to_selves

Follow us on Facebook: A Couple of Multiples - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556823127239

Visit our website: acoupleofmultiples.com to sign up for our mailing list, join our private, on-line community Hearts Multiplied, register for peer coaching, consultations, and workshops!