A Rational Fear

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Special guest: Michael Bones, Senior Manager of Advocacy at the Investor Group on Climate Change

A landmark High Court decision could change how Australian authorities assess proposed fossil-fuel projects. Dan Ilic and Lewis Hobba speak with Michael Bones about the Mount Pleasant coal mine case, why Scope 3 emissions matter, and what the ruling does—and doesn’t—mean for future mine approvals.

• Dan shares his move into the CEO role at GetUp.
• Michael explains the High Court’s ruling on the proposed Mount Pleasant mine expansion and emissions from exported coal.
• The group discusses why Scope 3 emissions made up about 98% of the project’s emissions, and why the court said authorities must consider their local climate impacts.
• Michael clarifies that the ruling does not automatically block the mine: planning authorities must consider the impacts, but can still decide to approve a project.
• The conversation explores what the decision could mean for future mine approvals, climate-related legal challenges, and communities facing fires, floods, heat and other climate risks.
• They also discuss climate damage to the economy, the social cost of carbon, clean-energy jobs and the costs of rebuilding after disasters.
• Dan and Lewis wrap up with details about the Irrational Fear live show at the Cheerful Earful Podcast Festival in Melbourne.

• 00:04 Dan’s new role and nonprofit life
• 01:51 The live show and today’s guest
• 03:00 Michael Bones joins to unpack Scope 3 emissions
• 04:09 The Mount Pleasant case and what the High Court decided
• 06:22 Why Scope 3 emissions account for most of the project’s footprint
• 07:39 Attribution science and connecting emissions to local impacts
• 09:09 The scale of the proposed coal expansion
• 09:37 What the ruling could mean for other mine approvals
• 12:14 Climate disasters, housing and economic costs
• 14:13 What planning authorities are required to consider
• 16:09 Potential implications for mining projects
• 18:01 The High Court decision and its 3–2 split
• 20:21 Closing thoughts and live-show details

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🎟️ TICKETS TO OUR LIVE SHOW: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/cheerfulearfulaus/2298247

🔗 Laura Bank's story on Smart TVs and SkyNews: https://www.ettemedia.com/pay-for-play-the-hidden-deals-putting-news24-sky-news-first-on-your-smart-tv/

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Here’s a tighter, no‑fluff version you can drop straight into podcast apps:

A Rational Fear – 18 September 2026

Dan Ilic is joined by Lewis Hobba, Grace Vegesana (AYCC) and journalist Laura Banks to tear into Australia’s media, politics, and AI hype.

In this episode:

• Karl Stefanovic’s podcast implosion, his blame‑shifting over the Tommy Robinson interview, and whether progressives should just buy his show and reprogram him.
• AI “we might end humanity” doom talk from Anthropic, OpenAI and Musk, and how it smells more like cartel-building and excuse-making than conscience.
• Grace on the Beetaloo Compute Zone and how AI data centres are being hard‑wired to fracked gas projects to keep fossil fuels alive.
• Laura’s investigation into Samsung (and others) auto‑surfacing Sky News/News 24 on smart TVs, the commercial deals behind it, and what that means for regional voters and media diversity.
• The panel’s on-the-ground view of AI in creative, legal and health work: hallucinations, bad posters, fake court cases, and very few genuine wins.

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It was a real thrill for Lewis and me to chat with a new voice in Australian satire: Henry Bretz.

For the past four months, Henry has been making the internet laugh with his uncanny, permanently furious impression of Karl Stefanovic's Right Wing Nut Job era. He's a fellow Queenslander, which only makes it sweeter.

By day he's on Mix FM on the Sunshine Coast. The rest of the time he's on TikTok and Instagram, taking apart the Australian political and media landscape. We can't wait to work with him again.

Henry's performing September 3rd at Good Chat Comedy Club in Brisbane.

And we're on October 24th at the Cheerful Earful podcast festival in Melbourne. Line-up TBA — we haven't booked anyone yet, so tell us who you want to see.

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REGISTER FOR THE BIG BBQ: https://bigbbq.com.au/lesson

In this episode, we explore Australia's energy transition, climate policy, and innovative initiatives like the world's largest veggie burger lesson powered by electric vehicles. Guest Thom Woodroofe shares insights on policy levers, sustainability, and Australia's future in the global green economy.

Thom has a book — you can check it out here: https://publishing.monash.edu/product/power-prosperity-planet/

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If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261a

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This week Dan and Lewis Hobba are joined by independent journalist Michael West of Michael West Media — who's being sued by BHP, Australia's biggest company, over his reporting on coal miner Simon Turner's decade-long fight for compensation. Turner broke his back at BHP's Mount Arthur mine in 2015, was misclassified as a "clerical worker," and paid $400 a week for a job whose award rate is $137,000 a year. Sitting behind the lawsuit is a potentially $10 billion labour hire wage theft scandal involving Chandler Macleod and Coal LSL — and the awkward fact that BHP, a $300 billion company, is also the major sponsor of the Walkley Awards while using Minter Ellison to muzzle a four-person independent newsroom.

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🎧 Get an ad-free and sponsor free version of the show.

🎟 Get early access and discounts to live shows.

🎥 Get early access to final videos, and draft edits of upcoming videos.

👨🏼‍⚖️ Make show suggestions.

💬 Get a link to the A Rational Fear discord.

If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261a

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This week former Industry & Science Minister Ed Husic joined us in the A Rational Fear bunker to chat about the big fault lines where Labor's values meet Labor's actions — gas exports, the Iran strikes, Pauline's rise, and how you actually get things done when your own party doesn't always want to hear it.

Ed was frank, funny, and refreshingly honest about the messiness of politics from the inside. Lewis came armed with the hard questions and didn't let up. And Dan tried to get Ed to endorse non-lethal Wedge-tail aircraft parts. It's that kind of show.

April 16th: I’ll be hosting this very interesting keynote lunch about democracy, satire, and why Scott Dikkers from the Onion won’t be allowed back into the United States. Andrew Nash was the technical adviser on Silicon Valley, and John Delmenico (friend of the show) is one of the sharpest brains in comedy in Australia — you know him and laugh at his work everyday on The Chaser’s socials. https://businessofcomedy.com/schedule/lunch-keynote-why-we-need-satire-for-a-healthy-democracy/

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear

Here's all the fun stuff you get when you sign up to Patreon.

🎧 Get an ad-free and sponsor free version of the show.

🎟 Get early access and discounts to live shows.

🎥 Get early access to final videos, and draft edits of upcoming videos.

👨🏼‍⚖️ Make show suggestions.

💬 Get a link to the A Rational Fear discord.

If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261a

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Recorded live at Climate Action Week Sydney, this episode of A Rational Fear dives deep into the rise of the far right, fossil-fuel-funded disinformation, and what it all means for Australia’s climate future and democracy.

Host Dan Ilic is joined on stage by:

• Malcolm Turnbull – former Prime Minister, now “concerned private citizen”
• Ed Coper – communications strategist and author of Angertainment
• Kate Hook – farmer, regional community leader, and two-time community independent candidate (Climate 200 co-convener)

Across this wide-ranging conversation, they unpack:

• Why the far right’s culture war is such a serious threat to climate action
• How “anger-tainment” media ecosystems (hello Sky News) and social platforms reward disinformation
• The inside story on fossil-fuel-backed campaigns, from Clive Palmer to astroturf outfits like “Australians for Prosperity”
• The existential crisis inside the Liberal Party and the risks of preferencing One Nation
• How regional communities are actually embracing renewables when they control the process and share the benefits
• The rise of community independents and why ordinary people, not party machines, are now driving political change

It’s funny, bleak, hopeful, and occasionally unhinged—classic Rational Fear.

• Climate politics & the far right
• Turnbull on why opposition to climate action has become “religion” rather than economics
• How internal Liberal/National dynamics warped energy policy around coal and renewables
• “Angertainment” & the media ecosystem
• Ed Coper explains how social media rewards outrage and emotional extremes
• How a small 7–10% anti-climate minority ends up feeling like 50% of the country
• The dangers of amplifying fringe narratives until they look mainstream
• Disinformation playbook & fossil fuel money
• Coordinated disinformation in the 2025 federal election, including:
• ~$80m in fossil-fuel-aligned spending
• Front groups like Australians for Prosperity attacking pro-climate independents
• Intimidatory tactics, rotating party shirts, and creepy “Don’t get hooked” billboards
• The global network of think tanks and astroturf groups exporting the same anti-climate tactics to Australia
• Liberal Party’s existential crisis
• Why Turnbull thinks there are “virtually no moderates” left federally
• How chasing One Nation on immigration and culture wars strengthens One Nation, not the Libs
• The potential fallout if the Liberals preference One Nation in seats like Farrer
• Community independents & regional hope
• Kate Hook’s experience campaigning in Calare and working in Hay and other regional communities
• How structured community engagement turns hostility toward renewables into enthusiasm when locals control the benefits
• The independent “ecosystem”: thousands of volunteers, trusted local messengers, and evidence-based policymaking
• The big question: how do we eventually get these independents from the crossbench into government and cabinet?
• How to fight disinformation
• Turnbull on why “ignore it and don’t give it oxygen” no longer works
• The “whack-a-mole” and inoculation approach: pre-bunking lies and relentlessly correcting them
• The importance of better stories, not just better facts
• Power, agency & what listeners can do
• Why grievance parties like One Nation don’t have real solutions—only easy pills for complex problems
• Community organizing, local campaigns, and supporting independents as the real counterweight to fossil fuel money
• “There’s no cavalry coming over the hill” – why we are the ones we’ve been waiting for

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What a great episode to end the year on. It's magic when the guests are good old friends with time under their belts, joy in their hearts and stupidity in their mouths.

Kirsten Drysdale's new YouTube show is crushing it, she reviews creators on the internet — The Internet Reviewed

Sami Shah you can find weekly on Patreon making podcasts and thoughtful posts — News Weakly

This week we cover a deeply important threat to democracy as we know it; The US State Department calling the Calibri font woke, we cash in on politician entitlements, and we try to decipher who 36 Months are and what they really want. Cam Wilson at Crikey.com.au has done some great work over the last year on the teenage social media ban — and this 36 Months story is developing fast. It's worth a sub to Cam and Crikey to follow it as it unfolds.

There's also and end of year quiz, and for some reason we talk about Jimmy Fallon and tech bros.

There's a lot going on — but it's a fun 45minutes hanging with funny friends.

Couldn't think of a better way to spend a road trip.

Happy Christmas to you all — we'll be back after Australia Day with some more A Rational Fear episodes, and perhaps the odd secret gig. To find out more sign up to our Patreon!

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear

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If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple podcasts:

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261

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G'day Fearmongers —

We have two of Australia's great brains join us, the brilliant Grace Tame and the editor of The Chaser John Delmenico. This week we sling satirical barbs about Spotify, satanic worshipers with a even less desirable side hobby, the bad essay that tried to start a culture war, and do a quick drive by of the photos release from Epstein's Island.

And for new Patreon supporters who sign up this week — you can win yourself a bottle of Evil Ray sunscreen. https://evilray.com/

All you have to do is sign up to our Patreon https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear

Cheers

Dan

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If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple podcasts:

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261

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🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear

Here's all the fun stuff you get when you sign up to Patreon.

🎧 Get an ad-free and sponsor free version of the show.

🎟 Get early access and discounts to live shows.

🎥 Get early access to final videos, and draft edits of upcoming videos.

👨🏼‍⚖️ Make show suggestions.

💬 Get a link to the A Rational Fear discord.

If you enjoyed this please drop us a review on Apple podcasts:

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/a-rational-fear/id522303261

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