Well, the movement to change society so it stops heating up the world didn’t take, so now we need to figure out how to change society to deal with a hotter planet. That means new forms of insurance, new models for construction and—yes, looking at you, Europe—more air conditioning.

Guest: Jeff Goodell, contributing writer at Rolling Stone and the author of the book The Heat Will Kill You First: Life and Death on a Scorched Planet.

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Podcast production by Rob Gunther, Evan Campbell, Madeline Thames-Ducharme and Patrick Fort.

Paige Osburn is the senior supervising producer of What Next and What Next TBD.

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