This is an interview I’ve been looking forward to for a while now. I was fortunate enough to speak with two guests from opposite ends of the spectrum of permaculture learning. The first, Geoff Lawton, one of the original students of Bill Mollison and a permaculture designer and teacher for more than 30 years, and the second, Sam Parker-Davies, an intern with Geoff at Zaytuna farm in Australia who has jumped in deep with permaculture learning, especially at the community level. In this interview we talked in depth about the challenges and points of inspiration from each perspective and experience. Geoff talks about inspiring regenerative projects at the community level and what it takes to get the ideas to really stick. Sam discusses his experience getting involved in local politics and even running for a seat on the city council. Geoff and I also talk about his experience and memories from working in our region of Guatemala many years ago with our friends at IMAP (the Mesoamerican institute of permaculture) and gives great advice on gathering information and observing a site in depth before making assumptions. This is a great and nuanced discussion from both ends of the spectrum that I’m sure anyone out there can relate to on some level