This week on the Penguin Podcast, Isy Suttie is joined by bestselling author, public speaker, and founder of The School of Life, Alain de Botton. His latest book, A Therapeutic Journey, deals with mental ill-health and recuperation and has been described as both a source of companionship in our loneliest moments and a practical guide to finding reasons for hope.

In this episode, Isy and Alain discuss the theory behind why, as adults, we cry at happy things, the importance of listening to children, and the value of pursuing a 'good enough' life that prioritises emotional wellbeing.

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