On the Gist, staying hopeful, but realistic.

In the interview, author, podcast host, and magazine editor Kurt Andersen joins Mike to talk about his new book, Evil Geniuses: The Unmaking of America: A Recent History. In it, Andersen explains how big business ran unchecked during the final decades of the 20th century allowing greed to ascend and the working person to feel powerless, all while unraveling the fabric of middle class normalcy.

In the spiel, Trump tapped Anthony Tata.

Email us at [email protected]

Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Margaret Kelley.

Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices