Today on the Saturday show, Mike shares a conversation he had with Charlie Sykes, former host of The Bulwark and current host of the new podcast To the Contrary. They discuss how ordinary citizens with cell phones in Minneapolis became Donald Trump's kryptonite, exposing the chaos of his immigration enforcement strategy and forcing a rare retreat from the administration. Charlie and Mike break down why the "chaos as a ladder" theory backfired, why ICE's brutality is finally breaking through to the "normies," and whether Republicans in Congress will ever rediscover their spines and reclaim their Article I powers.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

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Paul D. Miller joins the show to argue that international law is a set of norms, not a moral court. A former CIA analyst and Army intelligence officer now at Georgetown, Miller explains why post-conflict reconciliation only works when locals accept it, why Israel faces a unique double standard, and how democracies navigate war without becoming what they're accused of being. We discuss Rwanda, denazification, Kosovo, Gaza, civilian casualty ratios, and why just war theory still matters after the shooting stops. Plus, the arrest of Don Lemon—why it's less a First Amendment crisis than another example of selective punishment, pretextual enforcement, and politics disguised as law.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

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Mike contemplates the hierarchy of American attention, contrasting the 50 million eyes on the AFC Championship game with the obscurity of the men leading the "Metro Surge" in Minnesota. Then, Ruy Teixeira (The Liberal Patriot) and Jesse Adams (The Ivy Exile) join for Not Even Mad. The panel debates whether the chaos in Minnesota is a strategic "theater" of enforcement or a policy failure that's alienating the very public that requested it. They also dissect Trump's Davos "Greenland" rhetoric—is it a serious expansionist play for America's 250th anniversary, or just a loud way to bully NATO into paying up? Plus, a blizzard of "Goat Grinders" covering the Dodgers' billions, the "black Jewish" reboot of Blue Bloods, and the pharmaceutical ads keeping broadcast TV alive.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

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ICE's aggressive actions in Minnesota were meant to project force and restore order, but instead produced chaos, public distrust, and a political backlash. The administration's theory was that confrontation would favor enforcement, making protesters look extreme and Democrats indulgent, yet shootings, muddled explanations, and obvious narrative gaps flipped that contrast. plus Thomas Goetz joins the show to talk about Drug Story, his podcast that tells American history one medication at a time, from Lipitor to Ozempic. We look at disease awareness ads, the profit motive behind them, and the case that pharma marketing has occasionally succeeded where public health messaging has fallen short. In the Spiel, I count how many mouse clicks and file openings it now takes just to approximate what used to be straightforward acts of cognition.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

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Thomas Goetz joins the show to discuss his new podcast Drug Story, starting with the chain from FDR's death to cholesterol science, statins, and the cold math behind drug effectiveness. The conversation moves through Lipitor and EpiPens to show how evolving medical knowledge, good intentions, and pharmaceutical incentives can quietly reshape public health at massive scale. Plus, Trump is perhaps rethinking his Minnesota deployments, as the fire trucks exit. In the spiel a look at why the word "pretext" keeps surfacing in descriptions of Trump administration ICE actions, especially in Minnesota. What the term actually means, why it is often misapplied, and what its ubiquity reveals about how this administration justifies force before retreating.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

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CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams joins to talk about his new book Five Bullets: The Story of Bernie Goetz, New York's Explosive '80s, and the Subway Vigilante Trial That Divided the Nation. He walks through the courtroom oddities, like a "ballistics demonstration" staged with Guardian Angels as stand-ins, and explains why there was always a legally defensible path to either convicting or acquitting Goetz. The conversation places New York itself as another character in the story of safety and perception, showing how fear influenced juror belief. Plus the idea of moral injury and how official narratives around the recent Minneapolis ICE shootings of Renée Good and Alex Pretti reflect ethical damage being felt in real bodies and in public outrage.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

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First, Mike argues that Stephen Miller's promise of "federal immunity" to ICE agents is just as reckless as Donald Trump telling Iranian protesters the U.S. is "locked and loaded"—two instances of leaders writing checks their followers' safety can't cash. Then, from the vault (2022): Michelle Tafoya explains why she traded Monday Night Football for political podcasting. She discusses her "conservative libertarian" worldview, admits she might lack the "stomach" for a Senate run, and recounts the "hideous" experience of being "ambushed" on the Dan Le Batard show.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

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Today on The Gist, Mike explains why he won't be watching Netflix's Skyscraper Live, arguing that Alex Honnold's latest stunt is an "attractive nuisance" that plays on our darkest voyeuristic instincts rather than the Olympic ideal. Then, New York Times reporter Kenneth Vogel joins the show to discuss his book Devil's Advocates. He breaks down the "sh*tbag business" of foreign lobbying, covering Paul Manafort's pioneering work with dictators, Rudy Giuliani's "security consulting" hustle, and the very real legal exposure facing Hunter Biden.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

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Critic and essayist Jason Guriel joins to talk about Fan Mail and how cultural criticism curdled once gatekeepers vanished and celebration replaced judgment. He makes the case that abundance without curation doesn't democratize culture so much as drown it, leaving readers unsure what's worth their time—or why craft should matter at all. Plus, an analysis of Jack Smith's combative testimony before Congress and how "perjury traps" function when politics, not truth, is the goal. Also, dueling descriptions of Donald Trump at Davos—Pericles to admirers, shambolic horror show to skeptics—and what the split says about our fractured attention economy.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

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Chuck Klosterman returns with his one-word book, Football, using the Raiders' brand mystique—and the Pac-12 reduced to two lonely teams—as proof that the sport's identity outlives its on-field logic. He argues the short-term cash grab (conference realignment, NIL, gambling) is eroding the traditions that made college football feel timeless, even while the Saturdays are still great. Along the way: concussions as a rehearsal for America's broader "we can change it" institutional cycle, body cams as the reform that boomeranged, and the bleakly funny idea that our real hobby is forensic videography. Plus, a Davos "weave" tour where Trump sells "Green New Scam" riffs to bewildered Swiss elites, then Todd Blanche signals DOJ won't even bother with the usual investigative fig leaf after the Minnesota ICE killing.

Produced by Corey Wara

Coordinated by Lya Yanne

Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig

Do you have questions or comments, or just want to say hello? Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]

For full Pesca content and updates, check out our website at https://www.mikepesca.com/⁠

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