As a special addition to this week's episode, you can see Katy's full sit-down interview with Angela Duckworth, where they also explore the relationship between self-control and grit.

• Watch or listen to their conversation on YouTube or Spotify.

When your emotions flare or temptation calls, what does it take to hold back? Whether it’s resisting the urge to lash out or the pull of short-term pleasure in favor of long-term goals, self-control can be one of the hardest—and most important—skills we ever learn.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we explore the power and limits of self-control. You'll hear how legendary baseball player Jackie Robinson changed the course of history not just with his athletic talent, but through extraordinary composure in the face of hatred. Dr. Yohuru Williams is a professor of history and the founding director of the Racial Justice Initiative at the University of St. Thomas. He is also the co-author of Call Him Jack: The Story of Jackie Robinson, Black Freedom Fighter. He explains how Jackie Robinson's restraint and strategic discipline helped dismantle racial barriers in Major League Baseball—and why his quiet strength was anything but passive.

Then, Katy sits down with psychologist and Grit author Dr. Angela Duckworth, a leading expert on self-control. She breaks down what science tells us about managing impulses, why willpower by itself falls short, and how simple environmental tweaks and practical strategies can help anyone delay gratification and make smarter choices.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/Choiceology.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

This material is intended for general, informational and educational purposes only. 

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

This material contains links to content that is available on third-party websites. Schwab is not responsible for the content and does not provide, edit, or endorse any of the content.

The books How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, Call Him Jack: The Story of Jackie Robinson, Black Freedom Fighter, and Grit are not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

© 2025 Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. All rights reserved. Member SIPC

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In this bonus addition of Choiceology, Katy Milkman sits down with psychologist and Grit author Dr. Angela Duckworth, a leading expert on self-control. She breaks down what science tells us about managing impulses, why willpower by itself falls short, and how simple environmental tweaks and practical strategies can help anyone delay gratification and make smarter choices.

Katy and Angela's conversation is featured in the Choiceology episode "Playing the Long Game: The Power of Self-Control," now available in your favorite podcast app. 

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/Choiceology.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

This material is intended for general, informational and educational purposes only. 

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

This material contains links to content that is available on third-party websites. Schwab is not responsible for the content and does not provide, edit, or endorse any of the content.

The book Grit is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

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Most of us label ourselves early on as academic (or not), athletic (or not), or talented (or not). But even if you feel like you're lacking in natural talent or ability in certain areas, approaching new skills or challenges with openness, effort, and curiosity can take you farther than you might expect.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at the stories we tell ourselves about our abilities—and how to create conditions that can shape our trajectories for growth and achievement.

You'll hear from Donna Ferguson, a freelance journalist with The Guardian and The Observer, along with a couple of adults from a piece she wrote about embracing learning new skills and personal growth later in life. 

Then, Katy speaks with Mary Murphy, a professor of psychological and brain sciences at Indiana University, where she conducts pioneering research on motivation, performance, and the distinction between growth and fixed mindsets. Murphy is the author of the book Cultures of Growth: How the New Science of Mindset Can Transform Individuals, Teams, and Organizations. Her mentor is Carol Dweck, author of the book Mindset: The New Psychology of Success.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

This material is intended for general, informational and educational purposes only. 

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

Asset allocation strategies do not ensure a profit and do not protect against losses in declining markets.

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The books How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, Cultures of Growth: How the New Science of Mindset can Transform Individuals, Teams, and Organizations, Mindset: The New Psychology of Success, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and Grit are not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

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If you've ever gotten well into a project—maybe a DIY renovation—and then realized that you've taken the wrong approach, you probably know that it's very tempting to just stay the course. Starting all over again would be so painful, even if starting over is clearly the best option.

Or maybe you've taken a wrong turn on a hike and only noticed it a mile later. You know the dread of going back. Even if turning around is the smartest option, there's a strong pull to just keep moving forward.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we explore why people push ahead, even when a better path is available.

You'll hear the epic story of the building of the Panama Canal—and the high cost of not starting over when setbacks kept mounting.

Then, Katy speaks with Berkeley Haas ProfessorClayton Critcher about what he and collaborator Kristine Cho have dubbed doubling-back aversion and how it can affect many different decisions in our lives. 

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

This material is intended for general, informational and educational purposes only. 

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

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What makes an effective team? Talent? Skill? Discipline?

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we're looking at some of the more surprising ingredients of successful teams, according to science. Teams where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

You'll hear the story of the Kon-Tiki expedition—a harrowing journey across the Pacific Ocean led by Norwegian explorer Thor Heyerdahl. A journey made by a small band of adventurers who set out to understand ancient human migration. They were young. Most were inexperienced. But they had enthusiasm, a range of talents and personalities, camaraderie, and a clear and vivid goal. You'll hear from Liv Hukset Wang from the Kon-Tiki Museum in Oslo, who works with Heyerdahl's grandchildren to keep his legacy alive.

Then, Katy speaks with University College London professor Colin Fisher about his new book on team synergy. You'll hear his recipe for building teams that excel and his tips for avoiding the pitfalls of social loafing.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The books How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be and The Collective Edge Unlocking The Secret Power of Groups are not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

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We've all been there. Maybe you fumbled a line in a presentation. Or tripped on a shoelace. Or suffered a bad hair day. It can feel like the whole world is watching you—and judging you—in those embarrassing moments. But are people paying as much attention to you as you think?

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we explore why we tend to blow our own missteps out of proportion.

We go behind the scenes of some of the most consequential speeches of World War II. Speeches given by a man who was consumed with fear about how his stutter would be received by the public. Author and historian Adrian Phillips gives us new insights about King George VI's struggles with his diction and the effect his addresses had on the people of Great Britain during the darkest days of the war.

We also hear from Seth Tichenor, an assistant professor and program director at the Duquesne University Stuttering Clinic, who helps us understand what it's like to navigate a public role with a stutter.

Finally, Katy speaks with Cornell psychologist Tom Gilovich about how he and his fellow researchers demonstrated that—more often than not—our mistakes and foibles barely register with those around us.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The books How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, The King Who Had to Go, From Churchill to Eden , The Wisest One in the Room and How We Know What Isn't So are not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

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You've probably been in situations where multiple friends recommend the same product. It must be great, if everyone is talking about it, right? But then you find out that those friends had all just seen the same product on a popular TV show. What seemed like independent recommendations really came from a single source.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we consider the consequences of missing out on the true source of information when we're exposed to that information through multiple channels.

Joe Schwarcz tells the story of two-time Nobel laureate Linus Pauling and his obsession with the healing powers of vitamin C. Pauling was a venerated and accomplished chemist, so when he wrote the book Vitamin C and the Common Cold, the world took note. His claims about the health benefits of vitamin C were echoed innumerable times by health writers and influential figures in books and magazines and TV commercials. The problem was, there was little evidence to support those claims.

Joe Schwarcz is the director of the Office for Science and Society at  McGill University, where he is also a professor of chemistry.

Next, Katy speaks with Florian Zimmermann about the dangers of mistaking multiple sources of information as independent.

 Florian Zimmerman is a professor of economics at the University of Bonn who, along with Harvard economist Benjamin Enke, uncovered the problem of correlation neglect.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

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It's a new season of Choiceology, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. New episodes arrive every two weeks, so please follow us in your favorite podcasting app.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

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Were you the kind of kid who devoured all your Halloween candy in one sitting—or savored it daily until, somehow, it was Easter? And when it comes to bad news, do you prefer it all at once or with some time in between? Turns out, the way we bundle or separate life's highs and lows can influence our happiness. 

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we consider a mental accounting trick that can help maximize joy and minimize pain. 

You'll hear from Sally Millington of York, U.K., who set out to try 52 new things in a year. From the silly to the daring, Sally shares how shifting from saving fun for vacations to spreading it throughout the year transformed her outlook—and boosted her well-being. Her story shows the power of intentionally pacing pleasure—and why we might want to do the opposite with unpleasant experiences.

Then, Katy speaks with Ellen Evers, Associate Professor of Marketing at the Haas School of Business at the University of California, Berkeley, whose research touches on how the way we categorize experiences can make everyday life feel a little better. 

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be isnot affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

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Would you pay more for a car with 29,999 miles than one with 30,000? The answer should be no—it's a negligible difference, after all—but research shows that people often do pay more than they should for cars that are just short of certain odometer thresholds.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at why a price or an age or a test score that falls just under a round number has an outsized impact on our decisions. 

We hear from Melina Palmer, author of The Truth About Pricing, as she unpacks how the launch of iTunes—and its iconic per-song price—reshaped the music industry. Joshua Freedman, host of the Rapaport Diamond Podcast, explains why stones just shy of round carat weights are in high demand. And Bapu Jena, the host of the podcast Freaknomics M.D. and co-author of the book Random Acts of Medicine, reveals how deeply numbers shape medical decisions—and what that means for patients. 

Next, Katy speaks with Devin Pope, the Steven G. Rothmeier Professor of Behavioral Science and Economics at the Booth School of Business at the University of Chicago. Devin researches a variety of topics at the intersection of economics and psychology. In this episode, he shares his research involving cars–what we'll pay for them, what we pay to ride in them, and why. 

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The books How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, The Truth About Pricing, and Random Acts of Medicine are not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

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