It's a new season of Choiceology, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. New episodes arrive every two weeks, so please follow us in your favorite podcasting app.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

0725-PKW2

Were you the kind of kid who devoured all your Halloween candy in one sitting—or savored it daily until, somehow, it was Easter? And when it comes to bad news, do you prefer it all at once or with some time in between? Turns out, the way we bundle or separate life's highs and lows can influence our happiness. 

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we consider a mental accounting trick that can help maximize joy and minimize pain. 

You'll hear from Sally Millington of York, U.K., who set out to try 52 new things in a year. From the silly to the daring, Sally shares how shifting from saving fun for vacations to spreading it throughout the year transformed her outlook—and boosted her well-being. Her story shows the power of intentionally pacing pleasure—and why we might want to do the opposite with unpleasant experiences.

Then, Katy speaks with Ellen Evers, Associate Professor of Marketing at the Haas School of Business at the University of California, Berkeley, whose research touches on how the way we categorize experiences can make everyday life feel a little better. 

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be isnot affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

0625-1RA3

Would you pay more for a car with 29,999 miles than one with 30,000? The answer should be no—it's a negligible difference, after all—but research shows that people often do pay more than they should for cars that are just short of certain odometer thresholds.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at why a price or an age or a test score that falls just under a round number has an outsized impact on our decisions. 

We hear from Melina Palmer, author of The Truth About Pricing, as she unpacks how the launch of iTunes—and its iconic per-song price—reshaped the music industry. Joshua Freedman, host of the Rapaport Diamond Podcast, explains why stones just shy of round carat weights are in high demand. And Bapu Jena, the host of the podcast Freaknomics M.D. and co-author of the book Random Acts of Medicine, reveals how deeply numbers shape medical decisions—and what that means for patients. 

Next, Katy speaks with Devin Pope, the Steven G. Rothmeier Professor of Behavioral Science and Economics at the Booth School of Business at the University of Chicago. Devin researches a variety of topics at the intersection of economics and psychology. In this episode, he shares his research involving cars–what we'll pay for them, what we pay to ride in them, and why. 

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The books How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, The Truth About Pricing, and Random Acts of Medicine are not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

(0525-WRWH)

Streaks have long been logged in the world of sports. And for tracking habits, like daily writing. But now apps encourage us to keep streaks going for just about anything. Messaging friends, learning new languages, meditating, exercising, you name it. 

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we explore the motivational power of streaks. And we look at ways to alleviate the demotivating effects of breaking a streak. 

We speak with journalist Chloë Hamilton, who wrote a story for The Guardian about how a daily ritual can enrich your life or become an unhealthy obsession. Chloë heard from a range of people logging streaks—from daily language practice to simply kissing their partner each morning. One of the more extreme examples included runner Tom Vickery, who has run every day since August 2019. And not just in rain or shine, but after 200 mile runs, in sickness and health, even on a vacation, which included laps on a ferry boat. 

Next, Katy speaks with Jackie Silverman, an assistant professor of marketing at the University of Delaware, where she studies consumer behavior and streaks. Her research shows that people often adopt a "streak-keeping" goal in addition to their original motivation for an activity. Breaking a streak can be demotivating due to the feeling of goal failure and loss aversion. Silverman suggests that apps and individuals should emphasize intact streaks, downplay broken ones, and offer opportunities for "streak repair"—or flexibility to help people recover and stay motivated. 

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit https://schwab.com/Choiceology.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

Automatic investing strategies do not ensure a profit and do not protect against losses in declining markets.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The books How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Beis not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.

Apple, the Apple logo, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Podcasts are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc.

Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.

0525-PM4V

First-born children tend to believe that their parents were harder on them than their siblings are willing to grant. Football fans take disproportionate note of the challenging games on their team's schedules. We're wired to interpret our challenges as bigger than our advantages, even if the reality is more balanced.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we consider our tendency to focus more attention on our negative or challenging experiences than on our positive or easy ones. This asymmetry also appears in how we remember the lives and experiences of other people. 

Daniella McCahey is co-author of Antarctica: A History in 100 Objects and an assistant professor in history at Texas Tech University. She shares the harrowing adventures of one of Antarctica's most famous explorers, Richard E. Byrd. Byrd is credited with being the first to fly over the North and South Poles in the 1920s. He led five expeditions to Antarctica, including one where he nearly died. Byrd was truly a remarkable polar explorer and aviation pioneer, but also someone born into many advantages. 

Next, Katy speaks with Tom Gilovich, the Irene Blecker Rosenfeld Professor of Psychology at Cornell University. Gilovich identified what is now known as the headwinds/tailwinds asymmetry. He's also the author of the books The Wisest One in the Roomand How We Know What Isn't So. 

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. 

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The books How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, Alone: The Classic Polar Adventure, The Wisest One in the Room and How We Know What Isn't So are not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

(0425-KDX9)

Is it ever possible to see the world objectively, as it is? Turn on the news, open social media, engage with that family member at Thanksgiving, and it appears to some the answer is yes. But what if our biggest blind spot is thinking we don't have a blind spot? 

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how we can easily be fooled into believing that our subjective experience of the world is objective, and believing that anyone who disagrees with us must be biased or wrong.

We consider how this was part of the interaction between world leaders Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev at a high-stakes nuclear summit in 1986. Ken Adelman was the arms control director in the Reagan administration at the time and was with Reagan at this historic summit. His book Reykjavik: Forty-Eight Hours That Ended the Cold War details how these politicians with opposing world views came together as men. 

Next, Katy speaks with Julia Minson, an associate professor of public policy at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. She is a decision scientist with research interests in conflict management, negotiations, and judgment and decision-making. Her main line of research addresses the "psychology of disagreement"—how do people engage with opinions, values, and judgments that conflict with their own?

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. 

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The books How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be and Reykjavik: Forty-Eight Hours That Ended the Cold War are not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about its content.

(0425-DLMP)

Workplaces often rely on numerical ratings for performance reviews. Election debates focus on poll numbers and approval ratings. Your watch counts your steps in a day. Numbers increasingly influence our decisions.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at our very human tendency to fixate on digits even when words or graphs represent the very same information. 

Stephen M. Colbert writes about movies and the film industry and shares the heated story of when the DC Extended Universe came up against some unfavorable Rotten Tomatoes scores. You'll hear about a battle of wills between a famous director, some powerful studio executives, and a legion of fans, proving that numbers don't tell the whole story. 

Next, Katy speaks with Linda Chang, a behavioral scientist at the Toyota Research Institute and former MindCORE post-doctoral research fellow at the University of Pennsylvania. Katy and Linda, together with University of Chicago Professor Erika Kirgios and MIT Professor Sendhil Mullainathan, worked on the paper "Does Counting Change What Counts? Quantification Fixation Biases Decision-Making."

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication.

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.

(0325-8K30)

It’s a new season of Choiceology, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. New episodes arrive every two weeks, so please follow us in your favorite podcasting app.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.

(0325-43AS)

Luke Skywalker, Frodo Baggins, Katniss Everdeen, the main characters of many great stories, they all have one thing in common: the shape of their journey. From answering the call to adventure, to undergoing tests of character and strengths, to triumphantly returning home forever changed. It's a classic narrative structure that's inspired countless tales from ancient myths to modern media. But it's not just great for entertainment. 

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how this specific type of storytelling can be leveraged to make your life more manageable, exciting, and meaningful. 

Writer and performer Ethan Gilsdorf has written and spoken about how his childhood obsession with the fantasy role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons saved his life. 

For David Fajgenbaum, a physician and associate professor of medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, what saved his life was sheer determination and faith, but sharing his story has given new meaning to the incredible feats he's overcome. David is also the co-founder and president of the Castleman Disease Collaborative Network and co-founder and president of Every Cure, a non-profit that helps repurpose drugs for multiple diseases. He's the author of Chasing My Cure: A Doctor's Race to Turn Hope Into Action.

Katy speaks with Kurt Gray, a professor of psychology and neuroscience at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, about what happens when you tell the story of your life in the style of a "hero's journey." Kurt directs the Deepest Beliefs Lab and the Center for the Science of Moral Understanding. He's also the author of a new book out in January 2025 called Outraged: Why We Fight About Morality and Politics, which you can pre-order now.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/podcast. 

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request.

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.

{1024-0BGR)

Most parents encounter resistance from their children. Perhaps when the kids are young and turning their noses up at vegetables, or when they're teenagers and balking at curfews or dress codes.

So what's the best way to encourage good choices in the face of a rebellious kid? Or a rebellious adult, for that matter?

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at the surprising ways that resistance to authority can be leveraged for positive change. 

During the mid 1990s, the "Truth" anti-youth smoking campaign was everywhere. Many TV ads cleverly harnessed the teenage penchant for rebellion, using guerilla filming techniques and revealing hidden truths about smoking known to the tobacco industry for years. The campaign drastically lowered youth smoking rates and remains one of the most effective campaigns in history. Fran Kelly was on the frontlines, leading the advertising campaign at Arnold Worldwide. 

Francis "Fran" Kelly is the president and CEO of branding consulting firm CEOVIEW Branding. He was previously the president and CEO of global advertising agency Arnold Worldwide.

Next, Katy speaks with Christopher Bryan about his research on leveraging rebellion as a way to encourage healthy eating among adolescents. You can learn more in his paper titled "Harnessing Adolescent Values to Motivate Healthier Eating." 

Christopher Bryan is an associate professor of business, government, and society at the University of Texas at Austin's McCombs School of Business. He is also co-founder and co-director of the Texas Behavioral Science and Policy Institute.

Important Disclosures

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. 

All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. 

Investing involves risk including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.

(0824-H4BA)