Welcome to Extra Grimm, where we delve a little deeper into the world of the Brothers Grimm for the curious.

In this episode, we talk to Brothers Grimm expert Jack Zipes. The conversation centers around a particular folk tale type, that of ATU 325 “The Magician And His Apprentice”.

The interview starts with Jack recalling how his journey into this tale type all started with wondering why the Harry Potter series has achieved such phenomenal success. Eventually, he concluded that it’s because it’s really a gigantic version of “The Magician And His Apprentice.” From this bombshell opening, we discuss Richard Dawkins concept of memes as well as why fairy tales are so important, Hegel's theory of dialectics, and how ATU 325 is perhaps one of the most important tales in the history of oral storytelling.

Fortunately, we have already done one of the Grimm’s two stories of this type - you can hear our episode The Thief And His Master here. (highly recommended background homework for this episode!)

You can pick up a copy of Jack’s 2017 book “The Sorcerer's Apprentice: An Anthology of Magical Tales” which examines this type of folktale, charting is journey from antiquity to the modern day.

This episode contains spoilers for as yet unread stories and also contains themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.

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