Animal Behavior Conversations: The Podcast of The ABMA

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the people side of the animal care field. This episode, is a live panel recording from the 2025 ABMA Virtual Conference with live submitted questions from conference attendees. The panelists include leaders at all levels of animal care from keepers to curators to executive directors which give a holistic view and advice on what leadership can look like at any level in the animal care field. The panelist are Chris Jenkins, Clint Lusardi, Darren Minier, Julie Grove, Missy Lamar, Sandy Jabas, Shea Eaves, Stephanie Joe, Torianna Green, and Trelle Dandridge. Instead of the traditional "Training Tales", to end the episode the panelist provide their "Leadership Resource List" which can be found at the end of this episode's description. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠

• 4:40 Introductions to the panelists and what does leadership mean to you? 

• 22:45 Approaching management to encourage someone to take on a responsibility so that other coworkers feel motivated, seen, and heard 

• 33:30 As a leader, when growing and supporting a newer leader that struggles with communication and tone, how do you best allow them to practice those skills without damaging relationships 

• 52:20 What are the challenges of leading your peers and how do you overcome those challenges? 

• 59:15 What advice do you have for a leader to hold their team accountable so that they are raising the team up to a higher standard instead of brining the higher achievers down to a lower standard? 

• 1:04:20 What does it look like when a leader creates “a safe environment”? 

• 1:09:25 What advice do you have for those who are leading amongst their peers? 

• 1:26:20 How do you work around the thought of “You’re not my boss” when you are trying to be a leader at any level 

• 1:33:10 For those who do not have the authority or responsibility of changing disciplinary action plans for a larger organization, what are some small changes we can make in our teams in order to model “Just Culture” 

• 1:40:00 “Leadership Resource List” 

• “Leading Without Authority” by Keith Ferrazi 

• “It’s Your Ship” by Captain Michael Abrashoff 

• “Crucial Conversations” 

• “Just Culture” 

• “Radical Candor” by Kim Scott

This is a very special episode where we highlight ABMA’s 2025 Premier Sponsor: Pets for Vets with the organization’s founder and executive director Clarissa Black.  Clarissa starts by discussing how the organization was formed, what the organization does, and their very important mission.  She then gives information on how trainers can get involved with the organization and the process for applying for a pet while sharing some incredible and life-changing success stories.  Clarissa finishes the conversation by giving advice and learning into the world of therapy pet training and examples of some of the incredible training that is accomplished.  Stay tuned in for Clarissa’s "Training Tale" of teaching her puppy appropriate social interactions using a stuffed panda bear. If you would like to see a picture of Bear, the dog who inspired Clarissa to develop Pets For Vets, check out ABMA's social media channels! For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠.  To contact Clarissa email [email protected] and to learn more about Pets for Vets and how you can get involved visit https://petsforvets.com/

• 3:10 Intro to Clarissa Black 

• 6:30 Overview and mission of Pets for Vets 

• 10:20 How to get involved as a trainer 

• 11:30 Success Stories 

• 16:00 The process of choosing the specific pet for each veteran 

• 18:50 How to apply for a pet 

• 20:10 How to start your pet training journey 

• 25:20 Lessons learned from zoological training that apply to pet training 

• 30:35 Difference in training with animals that share our (home) environment 

• 32:34 Nightmare training and other examples of training with therapy pets 

• 38:55 Reciprocal expression and perception of behavior 

• 45:05 Common challenges when training therapy dogs and other pets 

• 51:00 “Training Tales” 

This episode Ryan Cartlidge, Animal Training Academy, discusses how to get “unstuck” in training. Ryan starts the episode by operationalizing what getting “stuck” in training may look like and the process of thinking “How do I get unstuck?”  Ryan breaks down this process into three steps 1. Building a tool kit of knowledge 2. Having the Courage to Act and 3. Having the Systems for Learning in place. Throughout the entire episode Ryan details multiple tactics and learnings that can assist in getting unstuck such as understanding reinforcement systems, videoing your training sessions, utilizing flowcharts, and so much more!   Stay tuned in for Ryan’s very unique "Training Tale" in which he was the learner. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Ryan and to learn more about Animal Training Academy connect with the organization in any way below: 

Email >>> 

Website >>> www.atamember.com

Instagram >>> https://www.instagram.com/animal_training_academy/?hl=en

Facebook >>> https://www.facebook.com/animaltrainingacademy/

If interested follow the link to a free month of ATA.  Sign up for 30 free days of ATA membership and then after that time period, you can roll into a full membership. >>> https://atamember.com/thanks-for-subscribing/

• 6:20 Introduction to Ryan Cartlidge 

• 12:35 Information about Animal Training Academy 

• 16:00 What does it mean when we feel “stuck” in training 

• 25:10 Starting the process of thinking “How do I get unstuck”?

• 32:50 Building a tool kit of knowledge and skills

• 1:00:40 Having the courage to act

• 1:15:10 Having the systems for learning in place 

• 1:27:45 “Training Tale” 

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the people side of the animal care field. This episode, which is a continuation of episode 29, Dave O’Connell, Bearizona, discusses “The Behaviors of a Unified and Supportive Team”.  The biggest takeaway from the entire episode is that one of the most important behaviors of a supportive team is the ability to talk with another.  Through talking with one another we are able to create shared team goals, disagree in a productive and positive manner, give and receive growth minded feedback, and provide effective corrective feedback.  Dave discusses that the behaviors of effective feedback include being timely, being specific, and being kind.  Dave finishes off the learning by talking about the behaviors of creating supportive and growth-minded team culture. Stay tuned in for Dave’s  "Training Tale" about how the Bearizona team continues their learning journey through “Lunch and Learns”. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Dave email [email protected]

For more information on the ABMA’s virtual conference visit this link: ⁠https://www.theabma.org/virtual-conference⁠

To submit an abstract for the ABMA 2026 annual conference visit this link: ⁠https://www.theabma.org/abma-annual-conference

• 4:50 Introduction to Dave O’Connell 

• 13:25 Creating shared goals 

• 20:50 How to disagree well? 

• 25:20 The behaviors of a team with a growth mindset 

• 29:30 Giving and receiving constructive, growth-based feedback 

• 41:20 Giving effective corrective feedback? 

• 47:25 Advice for approaching leadership with feedback and suggestions? 

• 55:15 The behaviors of a team with a unified and supportive culture

• 1:03:00 “Training Tales”

This episode Justin Garner, Busch Gardens Tampa Bay, provides some great learning on behavior chains and the process of chaining.  Justin starts by breaking down the process of chaining while giving practical application examples.  The discussion then dives into how a behavior chain works and dissects what it means for each behavior in the chain to serve as both a discriminative stimulus and a conditioned reinforcer.  Justin then explains the difference between backward and forward chaining and why it is recommended to utilize backward chaining.  The discussion ends with advice on preventing behavior chain breakdown and an explanation on the difference between shaping and chaining.  Stay tuned in for Justin’s  "Training Tale" about a team and a mob of macropods reaching new heights in training.  For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠

For more information on the ABMA’s virtual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/virtual-conference

To submit an abstract for the ABMA 2026 annual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/abma-annual-conference

To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠

• 1:30 Upcoming ABMA offerings 

• 5:35 Definition and practical application of chaining and behavior chains

• 15:30 Backward chaining 

• 22:35 Forward chaining 

• 26:15 Recommendation to utilize backward chaining

• 31:15 Advice on preventing behavior chain breakdowns 

• 33:50 The difference between chaining and shaping 

• 38:50 “Training Tales” 

This episode wraps up (for now) the two episode arc discussing how changing conditions can change motivation with Wouter Stellaard, Behavior 360 and the Kuzo Group. Before listening to this episode, please take the time to listen to Part 1 of this topic which is episode 68 of the podcast.  This episode is a direct continuation of Episode 68 in which Wouter discusses a multitude of ways in which we can change conditions to change motivation without utilizing diet/weight management.  Wouter discusses strategies if you have come to “the last stop” and determined that the best decision is using food to change motivation. Topics covered include considerations on safety, non-food reinforcers, using all available resources, timing, specific situations, and the importance of record keeping and observations.  The episode ends on a reminder that behavior and learning itself is reinforcing and how we should be adding things, not removing them from animals’ lives and behavioral repitoires. Stay tuned in for Wouter’s inspiring “Training Tale” about training the next generation of animal care givers.    For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Wouter email [email protected] or [email protected] 

For more information and to register for the 2025 ABMA virtual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/virtual-conference

To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠

Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!

1:40 New ABMA Virtual Conference + Behavior Month Information

3:50 Short recap of Episode 68 - Part 1 

10:25 Shifting from Diet/Weight Management to Behavior Management 

14:05 Non-Food Reinforcers 

17:50 The Last Stop: Using Food to Change Motivation 

19:50 Timing of Sessions 

21:20 Considerations for Using Food to Change Motivation

24:35 Importance of Record Keeping and Observations 

26:15 Considerations About Safety 

28:50 Using All the Resources Available to Make the Most Informed Decisions 

33:50 Signs that Using Food is Detrimental 

39:45 Can the Animal Physically Accomplish the Behavior

41:35 Definition of Depreciation and its Practical Application  

44:50 Behavior and Learning are Reinforcing 

52:30 “Training Tale” 

This episode begins a two episode arc discussing how changing conditions can change motivation with Wouter Stellaard, Behavior 360 and the Kuzo Group. In this episode Wouter discusses the many, and not exclusive, ways in which we can change conditions to change motivation that do not involve diet management.  The episode begins by discussing motivation as a construct and a label and then breaking down motivating operations and setting events. Wouter educates on the many ways in which we can alter antecedents and the environment in order to effect motivation.  Additionally, Wouter encourages listeners to evaluate ourselves and our shaping plans.  Stay tuned in for Wouter’s “Training Tale” about getting into the weeds of training Calm Attentive Behaviors (CAB) with wolves at Bearizona.   For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Wouter email [email protected] or [email protected] 

For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: ⁠⁠https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses⁠⁠

To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠

Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 

3:50 Introduction to Wouter Stellaard 

9:40 A jumping off point for a discussion 

11:35 Change from weight management mindset to behavior management mindset

15:10 Definition of Motivation

18:50 Motivation as a label 

22:55 Motivation and the Study of One in One Moment

26:20 Definition of Motivating Operations and Setting Events 

29:20 Relationship and Trust 

30:40 Variety of reinforcers 

31:10 Variety of asked behaviors, rate of reinforcement 

33:20 Shifting the mindset to what we can do and away from the animal isn’t motivated

37:10 Antecedents and changing the environment 

43:50 Evaluating ourselves 

49:55 Differential Outcome Effect

52:00 Competing Reinforcers 

56:30 Reevaluating our shaping plan

59:40 Low Motivation vs Reinforced Behavior 

1:03:50 Social Structure and Hierarchy 

1:13:50 “Training Tales” 

This episode Ari Bailey, Natural Encounters, Inc., discusses a topic that she will be presenting on at the IAATE Symposium titled “Get Out of the Way and Let Behavior Happen.”  The episode is a great conversation that focuses on recognizing when to fade out and when to implement specific tools such as baiting, prompts, target, etc.  Ari also gives advice on how to approach others with ideas on changing or trying something new in the training process.  The discussion finishes with Ari discussing how getting out of the way of the animal’s behavior can create more consistent and resilient behaviors and learners.   Stay tuned in for Ari’s very unique "Training Tale" about the origin story of a terminology for different sizes of peanuts.  For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Ari email [email protected] ⁠

For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: ⁠https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses⁠

To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠

Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 

• 4:30 Introduction to Ari Bailey 

• 12:55 “Get Out of the Way and Let the Behavior Happen” 

• 21:10 How to recognize that it’s time to move on from an approximation 

• 30:30 Using baiting, targets, prompts in the shaping process 

• 42:00 Advice on how to approach teammates with moving to the next approximation 

• 46:10 How to approach teammates about “testing” something new 

• 53:00 How does this correlate to consistent and resilient behaviors? 

• 1:02:05 “Training Tales” 

This episode Dr. Susan Friedman, Behavior Works, provides some great learning and insights into a multitude of current topics surrounding the science of behavior change.  Dr. Friedman starts with discussing the Hierarchy of Behavior Change Procedures; what it is, how we can view it to provide optimal welfare to animals, and also the importance of antecedent arrangement and the environment to behavior change.  She also breaks down what it means and looks like in practice when we strive for most positive, least intrusive, effective intervention.  Dr. Friedman then gives a summary on the free operant approach to enrichment.  She finishes the discussion by diving into the concept of control by honoring the no and shaping the yes.   Stay tuned in for Dr. Friedman’s very unique "Training Tale" about plant learning.  For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠[email protected]⁠ and to contact Dr. Friedman email ⁠ [email protected] 

For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses

To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025

Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 

• 5:10 Introduction to Dr. Susan Friedman and Behavior Works

• 19:25 Hierarchy of Behavior Change Procedures

• 27:00 Most Positive, Least Intrusive, Effective Intervention 

• 36:20 The importance of antecedent arrangement and the environment on behavior 

• 48:05 Free Operant approach to enrichment 

• 1:07:00 Honor the No, Shape the Yes

This episode, through daily live recordings, features a recap of the 2025 ABMA Annual Conference (April 27 - May 2 2025) hosted by Moody Gardens in Galveston, Texas, United States. Each day of the conference, one of the presenters for the day discusses their presentation and other learning that impacted them. 

Day 1: Marie Filipek, Zoo Tampa at Lowry Park

Day 2: Heidi Moomaw, Charles River Labs

Day 3: Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo

Day 4: Matthew Nguyen & Li Shan Tan, Resorts World Sentosa

If you are an ABMA member be sure to log in to Animalprofessional.com to watch most of the presentations and panels from the 2025 conference. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email [email protected]. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!

Here is the link to the podcast survey.  We really appreciate your feedback! https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025 

Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!

• 5:10 Discussion of Conference Day 1 with Marie Filipek, Zoo Tampa at Lowry Park.  

• 12:15 Discussion of Conference Day 2 with Heidi Moomaw, Charles River Labs

• 35:10 Discussion of Conference Day 3 with Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo

• 53:15 Discussion of Conference Day 4 with Matthew Nguyen & Li Shan Tan, Resorts World Sentosa