In this episode of Based Camp, we explore the recent wave of anti-marriage feminist influencers who suddenly get engaged and/or pregnant right after hitting 30. Is “anti-marriage” feminism just mate-blocking by other means? Or is it sour grapes from women who spent their 20s steeped in hookup culture?

We explore:

• The hypocrisy of prominent “stay single” influencers (MJ Gray, Alex Cooper, Wizard Liz, Danielle Walter, etc.)

• Why feminism’s biggest “wins” have mostly hurt women

• The collapse in marriage rates (especially by age 30)

• Mate blocking vs. status denial

• The hollowness of modern hookup/OnlyFans culture and the return to meaning

Get ready for a spicy and honest conversation about dating, marriage, female nature, and cultural trends.

Show Notes

What happened:

* An influencer named MJ Gray branded herself as strongly anti‑marriage and anti‑kids, framing marriage as “enslavement” and something women should avoid because it primarily benefits men and the patriarchy.

* She built a following of nearly 500,000 on TikTok by creating anti-marriage content, often arguing that marriage signifies the “ownership of women” and advising women to avoid it.

* After about nine months of dating a man with no public profile, she announces an engagement in a visibly uncomfortable video titled “Yes, I’m engaged. Yes, this is awkward,” while repeatedly insisting she is “in a good situation.”

* Timestamped clip:

* She claims her stance has always included caveats: marriage can make sense if you plan to have children, share property, or live together, but otherwise it remains a harmful institution.

It turns out she is not the only influencer of the stay single movement who turned around and got married. There are other recent and prominent examples that might indicate some sort of pattern.

This comes at a time when marriage REALLY doesn’t need negative propaganda. Around 2005–2010, roughly 50–55% of adults were married; by the mid-2020s, it’s around 46–51% (e.g., 47.1% of households headed by married couples in 2024, near historic lows).

So what’s going on with women like these? Let’s explore and discuss.

MJ Gray’s Branding

MJ Gray frames herself as a supermodel billionaire (that’s her handle on YouTube)

Has 419K followers on tiktok (@texasgardenfairy)

Has 84.6K followers on Instagram

She shares her thoughts on “The Maneater Podcast”

4.9 stars and 44 reviews on spotify (for reference, Based Camp has 3.8 stars and 205 reviews)

4.9 stars and 9 reviews on Apple Podcasts (for reference, Based Camp has 4.4 stars at 153 reviews)

MJ Gray’s YouTube model is @supermodelbillionaire: https://www.youtube.com/@supermodelbillionaire

8.46K subscribers, 65 videos

Things she says:

* Men should always pay for women because…

* Men are women’s apex predator

* Women’s time is more valuable than men’s time (because their attractive and fertile years are limited)

* Engaging with men is dangerous as you could get pregnant, get an infection

* Women’s presence and attention is more valuable than men’s attention (men spend more on strip clubs and exotic dancers… though apparently she does not know about host clubs)

Other Stay-Single Hypocrites

Alex Cooper

* She is most famous for being co-host of the Call Her Daddy podcast

* She built a massive platform with frank, often casual-sex-positive advice that included heavy skepticism toward traditional marriage and long-term commitment, encouraging women to prioritize autonomy and fun over settling down.

* She faced direct roasting for “preaching anti-marriage” before getting married herself (to Matt Kaplan). Critics highlighted the shift as hypocritical given her earlier messaging.

* Just this week announced her pregnancy

Wizard Liz

* https://www.youtube.com/c/TheWizardliz

* She is known for being a life advice/self-improvement influencer

* Frequently grouped with MJ Gray in discussions of “feminist rhetoric as a placeholder” for building a following before pivoting to relationships/luxury-coded life.

* She has shared content focused on self-love, healing, and high standards that some interpreted as discouraging rushed commitments or highlighting male flaws. She got engaged/married quickly (to Landon Nickerson), faced cheating drama, and drew similar “bait-and-switch” accusations

Danielle Walter

* https://www.tiktok.com/@daniellewalter_

* She is known for being a dating/relationship TikTok influencer, and the “Carrie Bradshaw of San Francisco”

* Gained millions with dating advice, single-era relatability, and content that resonated with women navigating toxic dynamics or high standards (sometimes overlapping with anti-settling or critical-of-men vibes).

* When she entered a relationship and shared extensively about it (including a 21-part series), followers accused her of abandoning principles, hypocrisy, or shifting for a man/clout. Backlash included claims she went “all for a man” after building on single struggles.

What is Really Happening?

Anti-Marriage as Mate Blocking?

Anti-Marriage Being a Pre-Wall Phenomenon?

* MJ Gray was 30 (born August 12, 1995; turned 30 in August 2025). The engagement news broke around April 2026.

* Alex Cooper got engaged at age 31/32

* Wzard Liz got engaged around age 25 (though it ended amid cheating allegations while she was pregnant)

* Danielle Walter entered her long-term relationship around age 32 and got engaged around age 33

Anti-Marriage Being about Women Fundamentally Misunderstanding Men?

Recently trending on X: 2010 Study Shows Testosterone Boosts Fairness in Women

People were discussing a 2009 study titled Prejudice and truth about the effect of testosterone on human bargaining behaviour (2009), in which researchers found that a single dose of testosterone made women behave more fairly in a bargaining game, but simply believing one had received testosterone made people behave more unfairly, regardless of what they actually received.

Episode Transcript

Simone Collins: Hello, Malcolm. I’m excited to be speaking with you again because we have a new episode in our series Women Are Terrible because they’re at it again, Malcolm.

The women are terrible. And what happened most recently was an influencer who goes by MJ Gray. She branded herself as very strongly anti-marriage and anti-kids. She, she framed marriage as enslavement and something that women should avoid because it primarily benefits men and the patriarchy. And she built this following of almost 500,000 people on TikTok.

I’ll link to this in, in the show notes. And it was all about anti-marriage content. She often argued that marriage signifies ownership of women and she strongly advised women to avoid it.

Speaker 11: I really wish women would stop getting married. I wrote off getting married since I was a little girl. I, I put together the pieces of what marriage was and I was like, “Oh, yeah, no.” I could never trust a man, which is why I would never marry a man

Simone Collins: And then lo [00:01:00] and behold After nine months of dating a man with no public profile, she announces an engagement in a visibly uncomfortable video, which is now, she’s trying to scrub it from the internet titled Yes, I’m Engaged.

Yes, This Is Awkward. While repeatedly she insists she’s in a good situation and I, I have a somewhat salvaged part of this at least that I was able to find on the internet for you, Malcolm, if you wanna include it. But I’ll also link to it in the show notes.

Speaker: Yes, I am engaged. Yes, I am the same person who made several videos saying that I never had, never had any plans to get married, I did not wanna get married, and I did not agree with the institution of marriage.

Simone Collins: She claims her stance has always included caveats that sometimes marriage is good.

Sometimes marriage can make sense if you plan to have children or share property or live together. But otherwise, it remains a harmful institution. And of course, very abundantly in, in her content, you know, she’s “Well, having kids is the most horrifying thing. It destroys your body.” So of course, if you have kids, [00:02:00] you know, sharing property, why would you ever do that?

But so- Oh, my

Malcolm Collins: God. So your takeaway, because she watched this happen. She comes to me and she goes, “Malcolm, is feminism just an anti-woman grift?” Is it- Or is it

Simone Collins: meat blocking? That’s what I, I kind of think Well, meat

Malcolm Collins: blocking, but through that it’s a tactic that ugly women use to destroy the marriage prospects of beautiful and qualified women and that when women signal feminist ideals, they are doing it with the predominant intentionality of hurting other women.

And the women I have heard- No, I mean, so this, this is where it gets

Simone Collins: more complicated because this is a different subset, and it’s more... This is why I wanted to talk about it, because this is not the ugly feminist meat blocking and being like, “Well, we need to, you know, uh, get cats and vote.” This is not that class.

This is, this is a slutty class of women. I, I mean that in the nicest way. This is a sex positive class of women that, that, that actively wants to date that talks about dating strategy, that talks [00:03:00] about getting men to pay for you, that talks about loving sex. And yet things happen and suddenly- Did this woman talk about all that?

Dot, dot, dot. Yeah, we’re gonna get into it because it turns out That MJ is not the only influencer in the stay single movement who turned around and got married. There are other recent and, and actually quite prominent, even more prominent than MJ in, in terms of the online drama than MJ. So I want

Malcolm Collins: to explore this through a few lenses before we start.

Okay. So when you came to me and you told me this, I began to really think through it, and I was like, actually, almost everything that feminism has, quote-unquote, “won” has been a strict negative for the majority of women. Yeah. Yeah ...

whether- Yes ...

whether that is, “Hey, women, you get to be sluttier now,” and women were always like, “But I never wanted to.”

I... men are the ones- Yeah, like this was never the plan. Since when did I want to? Men wanted multiple partners. I wanted a wealthy partner, right, who’s dedicated only to me. Yeah. I’ve watched the women porn, right? I’ve, I personally like really reading, uh, romantasy mawa’s stories, [00:04:00] right? So I know what women like because I find it very enjoyable, too, and it’s always one guy, maybe two guys thirsting after them for a love triangle.

Yeah. It’s certainly not what men are into and what these women have, quote-unquote, “won.” Well, yeah, it’s not a series

Simone Collins: of one-night stands. It’s not really out there sex acts. It’s, it’s- No ... it’s quite- It’s the dark,

Malcolm Collins: brooding Duke of the North- Yeah ... who secretly has a soft spot for them. Oh, you know it.

You know it. But- Yeah ... but, so okay. So, oh, well, they won the right to work. What? How is that good for women? Yeah. That now women have to have jobs, and still raise kids, and still cook the food, ‘cause they didn’t really walk back that other stuff significantly. No, no.

Simone Collins: Now they’re just like, oh, so, work for yourself, but also sleep around with a bunch of men, but sort of, you know, in, in return for no security or long-term bonding.

And, and also you know, if you, if you ever do get married, just wait. Get, make it a [00:05:00] capstone in your life. Get everything else in place. And they’re just giving this really intense anti-marriage advice at a time when marriage really can’t afford any more negative propaganda. Between 25, or 2005 and, and, and 2010, around half of adults, like 50 to 55%, were married, and by the mid-2020s, it’s around 46 to 51%.

So, 47% of households were headed by married couples in 2024. These are near historic lows. It, it, people are just- I mean,

Malcolm Collins: have you seen the married by 30 numbers that Asmogold was sharing? Really?

Simone Collins: But yeah, the number of people getting married by 30 is,

is plummeting.

So yeah, people are putting it off. We really don’t need any more anti-marriage propaganda. Meanwhile, you have-

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, hold on. I’m just gonna go over it really quickly for fans. Yeah. So Americans married by age 30, if you go to 1975, it was 91% of women, so over nine in 10 women. Yeah. And for men it was 81%.

Today, 2025, it is 25% of women and 16% of men. [00:06:00]

Simone Collins: This is not

Malcolm Collins: great. So, th- yeah, that is terrible at this point. And women are

Simone Collins: like, “

Malcolm Collins: Marriage is slavery.” And I also wanna go into a video that ended up doing the rounds of a woman who is very, very mid got a baseball star to date her. Uh, he wanted him to come back to her place on the first date, and she ends up putting him on blast, and he didn’t even do anything wrong.

And it, it shows that the tyranny of the mids at this point.

Simone Collins: The tyranny of the mids? Right? Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That they expect- Come on ... mil- multi-millionaire pro athletes to take them on second dates when clearly they’re just chum.

Simone Collins: Yeah, this guy was a, a, apparently a lazy 10. So that’s- As we

Malcolm Collins: point out, you know.

And now if she thinks that this is the type of guy that she can get, no, you can’t. Yeah, now, now yeah,

Simone Collins: going forward she’s going to assume that she will get a 10 to marry her because a 10 wanted to sleep with her on one of his tired nights.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Okay,

Malcolm Collins: continue, Simone.

Simone Collins: But yeah, so I, I wanna, I wanna explore these women for a [00:07:00] little bit because this is a different profile of woman.

This is not, like I said, the, you know, a bookish feminist cat lady who is just like, “I’m never gonna come into contact with men.” This is actually, as much as they’re sort of anti-men or at least anti-centering men, they actually engage a lot with men, and they’re quite attractive. At least I, I think, I think they are.

Uh, they, they, they look like mainstream filter people if, if that makes sense. You know, like Instagram models. But let’s start with MJ Gray, the, the woman in question, the, the turning point of this episode. She has 419,000 followers on TikTok. She has 84,000 followers on Instagram. She shares her thoughts on The Maneater podcast, which is, you know, her, it’s a little bit red pill woman-y, but not in that she... I think red pill women often were seen back in their day, I don’t know if they still exist, as being subservient to men, whereas she’s more like a pickup artist woman. You know, like- Mm-hmm ... being very sociopathic about her views with women.

A, an [00:08:00] example of a post from her is she’ll be like, “Well, men should always pay for women because men are women’s apex predator, and women’s time is more valuable than men.” But admittedly because they’re attractive and fertile, years are limited, which is true. And engaging with men is dangerous, as you could get pregnant or get an infection.

And women’s presence and attention is more valuable than men’s attention because men, you know, there’s this multimillion dollar stripper industry, uh, and OnlyFans industry that, that centers on women’s attention and, and time and presence. And that, you know, and it, th- this is why you should have men always pay for your dinner, that you should never go Dutch on a date.

I lo-

Malcolm Collins: I love their we need to walk back some parts of feminism here, right, guys? Th- this is clearly... We should just get whatever we want as women. Yeah

Simone Collins: you have to pay for everything, but Are you gonna tell me about this guy who got hitched to this psycho? So there’s not a whole lot known about him because it, but it’s, it’s clear that he’s- Except that he’s super rich apparently.

He’s, yeah, he’s, he’s super rich. Yeah, he, he’s [00:09:00] super rich.

Looking to find and marry a rich man just so you can live the soft life is probably the dumbest s**t I’ve ever heard

Simone Collins: And that’s kind of, it’s a pattern here. Although I, I, I mean, and she, I mean, it makes sense her, her handle, when it’s not Manny or this or whatever MJ Gray is, is, is supermodel billionaire. That’s how she frames herself on YouTube though she only has eight point, like eight, a little more than 8,000 subscribers on YouTube.

She’s pretty small on this platform. But yeah, that is the pattern with her and these other don’t center men, never get married, just enjoy yourself women. So and the most prominent example, I would say way more prominent than than MJ, is Alex Cooper. And you’ve probably never heard of her, Malcolm, but she’s super famous for being the, I guess the former co-host of the Call Her Daddy podcast.

She built this massive- Oh, yeah, I remember this one. And then a guy swept her

Malcolm Collins: off her feet.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and actually just this week, guess what she announced? Marriage? No, her [00:10:00] pregnancy. Oh, gosh. How neat. She’s, she’s now she’s pregnant. And this is, you know, after her getting super famous for s- casual sex positive advice that was very skeptical toward traditional marriage, very skeptical toward long-term commitment, encouraging women to prioritize autonomy and fun over settling down.

Now she’s pregnant, and now she’s married. And people are pointing out quite fairly that she’s hypocritical. Then there’s an- another one, Wizard Liz. She was known for being more of a life advice and self-improvement influencer, and she was really commonly grouped with people like MJ Gray in discussions of femorist rhetoric as, as a placeholder for building a following, and then just sort of jumping in from there to this luxury-coded married life, which is sort of what MJ’s doing.

Like, when I went to her, her TikTok profile more recently, it’s all “Oh, I’m shopping in France, and here’s my fancy hotel room.” And so they, I guess they’re just using it as “I don’t need men. I’m super hot. I’m super sexy.” And then that’s their hook, I guess, to [00:11:00] try to get- No, hold

Malcolm Collins: on. We, we actually even had this within our own community, okay?

So- We did? If you look at the wider online community that we’re a part of, our fourth most overlapped channel by the way which you know but our fans w- probably don’t know from today uh, is, is a woman who- Ah ... uh, really promoted the ideas of a kink lifestyle, a 24/7 BDSM- Oh, her ... uh, daddy dom little girl, and now she’s in a trad cath relationship.

Simone Collins: She is? I haven’t followed, I haven’t kept up with her. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: Shoe0nHead married a traditional Catholic guy. Oh,

Simone Collins: Shoe0nHead. Shoe0nHead. I thought you were talking about the other one who’s more, way more- No,

Malcolm Collins: Shoe0nHead is our fourth most overlapped channel- Really? ... and she promoted all of this. Oh, you thought the other kink influencer.

No, she’s not overlapped with us. Shoe0nHead is- Yeah, she,

Simone Collins: she’s very boring. Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, Shoe0nHead’s very entertaining. Come on, of

Malcolm Collins: course

Simone Collins: Shoe0nHead,

Malcolm Collins: Woke up, you know. We’ll be getting videos from- I guess you’re right. I didn’t

Simone Collins: even think about that. But I don’t think Shoe0nHead... W- was she ever...

See, I think she was, like, open about her kink, but she was never also [00:12:00] BDSM people are, like, surprisingly I don’t know, I wanna say lovey-dovey and romantic in their relationships, you know? They’re- ... they’re not like, “I’m gonna have one-night stands.” You can’t, you can’t be in like, a BDSM relationship and do one-night stands, because you need weeks just to hammer out the, the gear and, and, and get all the accoutrement and, and work out your agreements and the procedure.

Mm-hmm. I mean, it’s just, it, it’s like the D&D campaign. You can’t just, just one night stand it and then switch between people all the time. You’d have to like, buy new outfits and stuff. It would be too tedious. But yeah, good point. Yeah ... Wizard Liz though, she, she was- Shoe, but I think

Malcolm Collins: that this is all part of a wider thing where if you’re a woman and you’re just trying to live your best life, and I like including Shoe0nHead in this category because Shoe0nHead, I do not think is somebody, uh, there’s a small number of our audience who doesn’t like her, but the vast majority generally assume the best of Kami Mommy.

Oh, yeah ... and she, like me I used to be, like, a manslut, right? I was just in an environment where I hadn’t [00:13:00] heard a compelling argument that it was a stupid way to live your life, right? Uh, because- Yeah ... frankly the way conservatives of the last generation made their arguments was f*****g terrible.

Yeah. Yeah ... it simply was an awful seller. Well, and I think most of us

Simone Collins: grew up seeing our boomer parents, like millennials, saw their boomer parents’ marriages and were like, “Well, this is, this is mediocre.” Mm-hmm. “I’m not, I’m not interested in whatever this is. This is, this is

Malcolm Collins: bad.” Whatever the boomers did is not what I wanna do, right?

Simone Collins: Exactly. So I’m like, yeah. Exactly,

Malcolm Collins: so I don’t blame you. You were telling me- And I was...

Simone Collins: No, I was totally, I mean, rule it out. But the I’m never gonna get married, I’m just gonna s- have, you know, s- like s- sleep with someone and fall in love and have my heart broken and then just move on and never do it again.

You know, I’m, I’m not above this, and I just find that dynamic to be very interesting

Malcolm Collins: Yeah because- but the, the reason I’m, I’m saying this is a lot of these women likely just were not aware how awesome marriage is. They get swept up, as women do- Yeah ... in online communities where everyone’s saying the same thing.

They likely had no evoked set for what a [00:14:00] positive relationship in a marriage looks like, because where were they going to see it? Yeah. Think about our progressive friends who are, like, live in Manhattan and stuff like that. Yeah. They

have

f*****g terrible marriages. Uh, even ones who are, like, just a generation above us, their marriages are so bad, these weird polyamory marriages they, they’re like...

It’s, it’s, it’s shocking to me. And when I say bad, I’m not saying they’re bad because they’re polyamorous. I’m saying that they often don’t seem to really like each other that much or really working together that much. And they seem like partners who uh, they seem like coworkers really is, is sort of the vibe I get from them, right?

They’re not actively anti- They’re not like boomers where it’s like they obviously hate each other. But they don’t seem to really get it. And then I look at our friend group of our generation, right? Who’s all in the suburbs and everything like that, and they all seem to just be loving it, like marriage is the best thing ever.

And, uh, yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s been very, [00:15:00] uh, which, uh, people may not know this, but our actual friend group of marrieds, uh, is either... I, I will say for the Latin friends we have that get married it’s, it’s often not as good. Because, uh, very often, for whatever reason in Latin American culture in the United States men get married to women and then use them as a source of income and the, it’s, it’s, sort of comes across as, as Latin women often marry down.

I mean, at least they’re getting married and having kids, but you know, it is something I’ve noticed.

Simone Collins: No, it’s just anecdotally more than we would like to see, I think. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: more than we would like to see. Uh, and then the other place where I see this is in my, uh, or our Jewish friend group.

We have a big, you know, Orthodox Jewish friend group. And their marriages are usually really rock solid. The younger ones. Oh, super rock solid. The

Simone Collins: older ones- Yeah, I was like, not that- Not as much ... no. No, they’re super solid. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so they’re, so the... Yeah, sorry, where was I? Wizard Liz.

Wizard Liz is a little different because she went from the whole like, oh let’s, you know, be liberated and free to really quickly getting married and then getting pregnant, but then [00:16:00] divorcing before even, I think, having her, her first baby because of cheating allegations. So that didn’t work out for her.

But then there’s Danielle Walter. Uh, Danielle Walter was known, you might have heard of her she was the Carrie Bradshaw of San Francisco, and she did a lot of dating confessionals essentially- Mm-hmm ... on TikTok and got really famous for that. She had millions of followers who, who were into her single era, woman ability, and this whole Sort of modern single woman thing.

But then she did this, and I, I’ve watched multiple YouTube videos, like going over this very, I guess you could say cringey 21-part series where she debuted her boyfriend. Like she just teased it to high heaven. And then- Was this, was this the woman who was on the Call Her Daddy? No. This is, this is a dif- this is, we’re on number two now.

This is yet another. Yes. Yes. So yeah, I, first I was talking about the now just suddenly pregnant Alex Cooper from Call Her Daddy, then there was Wizard Liz, and now we’re on Danielle Walter. And [00:17:00] what’s happened with her is that she, after debuting her boyfriend, then she, she got... I think she’s married now.

And part of what I think might be happening when I look at all these women, with the exception of Wizard Liz, is guess what happened right before they suddenly pivoted and got serious about long-term committed relationships? They became famous? No. They hit 30? Yes. Ah. MJ, MJ Ray, she was 30. The, the engagement news broke right as she hit the wall.

Alex Cooper got engaged at 31, 32. Wizard Liz, exception here, 25, but now she’s divorced again, back on the market. And then Danielle Walter got- Oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh ... like the moment they debut it,

Malcolm Collins: it’s- To add to it, wasn’t in your original list, how old was she on head when she got engaged? 32.

Simone Collins: I... No way. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Probably met him around 30.

Simone Collins: So, yeah, maybe one thing here is that like women of our modern [00:18:00] era like... Oh my gosh. I don’t know what’s going on with him. Oh, poor baby.

Hold on. Give me one moment here. All right. Hey,

hey, hey. They, they... Maybe the new norm is you’re like basically “I’ll never get married and I’m gonna be an independent woman,” and then you hit the wall, and then it, like you just suddenly have you f- you get God, you know?

And if there’s some way that we could like, ooh, head off...

I think

it’s that room’s really

hot maybe. Or-

Malcolm Collins: Well, it’s his first summer.

Simone Collins: It is, but he’s not into it.

Malcolm Collins: I’m not into it, okay? Our whole family isn’t into it.

Simone Collins: We, we don’t like..

Anyway m- maybe if there’s some way we can head this off, it would involve maybe our like just telling people like, “Look, this is the pattern. This happens to everyone. Just ignore the instincts telling you this.” Well,

Malcolm Collins: [00:19:00] it’s like we all get warned that puberty is coming- Yes ... and nobody warns that your 30s are coming, right?

Yeah. You

Simone Collins: know,

Malcolm Collins: everyone’s “Well, you need to be preparing. You need to figure out how to talk to girls. You need to get your rizz on.” People didn’t know I got rizz, okay? I, no, but I’m joking here. I do not have rizz apparently, uh, as, as our audience has, has made clear to me, right? So I, I, talking to women I’m just no good.

But uh, t- uh, functionally I am though, obviously. It’s just, it doesn’t look like what people think it looks like. Uh- Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know if anyone really knows what- How do we get women... I mean, I think it’s just your, your biology changes. Here’s the way I would fix this, okay? Oh, but I, I

Simone Collins: have to ask, though.

Is it also not just some form of mate blocking behavior? There’s a big game of musical chairs taking place when women are in their 20s, and what many women do as a t- a defensive tactic, maybe also to inflate their sense of value, is to be like, you know, the [00:20:00] one thing that you talk about in, when you give relationship advice is women, stop doing this whole thing where you act unimpressed by everything.

You’re like, “Oh, this restaurant isn’t really that impressive.” They just wanna neg men- Oh, I freaking hate women who do this ... and it’s really unattractive. But women do that- It’s so common ... it’s very pervasive. This could be a version of it, of “Oh, I don’t ever wanna get married. I don’t...” Because they’re trying to seem more valuable than they are, because what they really want is for men to be like, “Oh, then I, I must have her, because she can- she’s unachievable.”

You know, that kind of thing? It’s maybe this is that. Maybe it’s a competitive strategy. It’s not also mate blocking. It doesn’t work quite that way with men.

Malcolm Collins: Guys don’t go for that. I know, it works...

Simone Collins: Well, but think about it. So men send dick pics to women because they’re like, “What would I like? Oh, I know.”

Oh, so they try to be the cold Duke of the North? Yes. I think maybe that might be part of it, is it, this is women trying to be the cold Duke of the North, and what men are like-

Malcolm Collins: I’m not interested in this ... “Will you

Simone Collins: send me a picture of your tits, please?” “Let, let me inspire you by this picture of my [00:21:00] dongle.”

You know, that is, that is- So,

Malcolm Collins: okay. So here is- We’re talking past each other, essentially ... I think is a way around this culturally speaking, right? Which is we can go out there and, uh, when our kids are growing up, when we’re teaching them about puberty, puberty should be taught as a package with you’re gonna want to get married at later in life too.

Yeah. So when we’re telling them, “You’re going to change how you feel,” we make it very salient, “And this will happen again later. So any preparations you make for this change should also include preparations for the secondary change.”

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, possibly. Maybe even forcing them to watch Blippi when they’re teens to be like, “Hey, how do you like this?

How do you like it? You wanna watch more?” Mm. And then be like, “Hey, this is how you’re gonna feel about your life as a playboy, world traveling 20-something when you turn 30.” Maybe something like that. Or if you actually are willing to be intellectually honest with yourself- Right ... and emotionally honest with yourself.

I don’t know. I’m, I’m [00:22:00] not sure. But I think more importantly, we also need to hear- Hold on, I’m gonna break this down.

Malcolm Collins: Let’s not leave this at an I’m not sure. Let’s think through it. Because, uh, I think we see this present in different ways. Okay. Uh, in Siwanhead’s case, for example, I do not think it was mate blocking.

I think she lived in a society where this was normal and, uh, or you could even think me promoting these values. Mm. Why didn’t I promote feminist values? It’s because I wanted to sleep with women, right? Mm-hmm. And it got that for me. Oh yeah, abortion’s the best, right? Oh yeah, you know, sleeping around, while it makes you feel good, it makes me feel good.

How could it be morally negative, right? Yeah. Oh yeah, you know, uh, it, it, it, it achieved what I wanted in the moment, right? So, uh, and what everyone in my society told me I was good and what seemed good when I saw through it because, you know, clearly whatever the boomers is doing isn’t working and the religious people just shout, “Read the Bible” and I’m like, but a lot of those stories don’t compute.

I did. There’s a lot of

Simone Collins: sex

in there.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, a- and [00:23:00] slavery. You know, I’m like, “You, you guys aren’t pro-slavery, right?” Now obviously as an adult I’ve gone back to the Bible and I find good moral guidance in it. Mm. But as a kid when somebody just shouts at you, “Read the Bible” and you’re like aware that the Bible’s like pro-genocide and slavery in sections, you’re like, well, selling your daughter, you know, well, maybe not every...

Like, how do I know that this marriage stuff in the Bible sh- I, I, I shouldn’t take the same way as I take the selling your daughter into slavery stuff in the Bible, right? Mm-hmm. Like presumably that’s not applicable anymore, right? And they, you know, frankly I didn’t hear good answers back then.

Now I can give you a great answer today. Uh, you watch our track series, you watch any of our religious episodes, you’ll find good answers. But the conservatives of the last generation, things sucked at, at, at basically conveying a salient message.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So combine, combine that conservative message with how bad boomer, like our parents and Gen X marriages were, which is oh my God, I [00:24:00] don’t want that, plus this mismatch between male and female desired love language.

It’s like men just want the tit pics and women just want the Duke of the North and we don’t know how to give this to each other because we, we are pretty different in the things that turn us on, like on average as men and women. And then with different life stages just being- The, you being rewarded by different things at different periods of your life, and it being very hard to model that even within yourself and anticipate that.

I think there’s an additional cultural layer on top of this, which is that we are in the middle of a, of a realization, a collective realization that the free sex OnlyFans, sleep around with people era. And we’ve talked about this. Remember we talked about how swipe-based dating and hookup culture radicalized women- Mm-hmm

but also made them pretty miserable. And it’s even showing up in very popular media. There’s very little event media left, but one of the few shows that’s left is Euphoria. And I’ve been watching Season 3, and a [00:25:00] really major recurring theme of it is the Bible and God and religion. What? And the other recurring theme is women in sex work.

So the main character is working for this kingpin of strip clubs and, and kind of drugs. Another main character is an OnlyFans model. Another main character is an agent exploiting OnlyFans models. So, it’s just, it’s kind of all about sex and hookup culture. Another one is a sugar baby- Mm-hmm

for a wealthy man who likes to wrap her up in cellophane . And it- To wrap her up in cellophane? ... it’s all just kind of like... It’s just a, like a fetish thing, you know? I, I can’t remember what the name for it is, but, like- Yeah, I’ve seen it. Yeah, I think someone actually- I, I don’t understand anything about this fetish

I think actually famously very recently, an OnlyFans model has just been convicted of negligent homicide for accidentally killing one of her followers by wrapping him up in cellophane. So guys, be careful. Uh, it’s not safe. Wait, so he, he asked her to wrap

Malcolm Collins: him up. He didn’t wrap her up. [00:26:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah. She wrapped him up, and now she’s in trouble because he died.

Uh, ‘cause don’t do that . It’s not safe. Uh- That makes

Malcolm Collins: me sad for her, actually. I know.

Simone Collins: She was just trying to do her job, you know what I mean? Uh- Yeah. The guy presumably was- He asked for it ... at least partially aware of the risk. For, you, you, one hopes, but I don’t know. Okay? Anyway, the big theme is that.

And actually it begins with one of the main character, the main character is, is running drugs, but stops. She sort of finds herself in the middle of the Texan countryside, and is, is, is, uh, she sleeps in a barn and wakes up to this, this homeschooling- I have, I have, I need

Octavian: a little more things

Simone Collins: here.

He has more swords that he wishes to show. She shows up at this homeschooling Texan family, like sleeps in their barn, but like they just bring her milk in the morning. They’re like, “Hey, why don’t you just join us for breakfast?” And she sits around and they have family prayers. And she, they drop her off closer to a road, and so she’s able to get on her way.

And it just sits with her [00:27:00] for l- the longest time of “Man, like I-” I think they kind of get it.

Speaker 2: We wanna thank you, Lord Jesus Christ, for giving us our daily bread and forgiving us our trespasses. Let me help you get your plate, sweetie. Here, let me get this first, Dad. This is our address. Will you be sure to send the article when it’s in the paper? Uh, yeah, as long as the commies at college don’t censor it.

Speaker 3: You’re doing the Lord’s work. Thank you. I’d trade spots with you in a heartbeat Bye

Simone Collins: These offline teens, this, this big family of six kids, like homeschooling and living on our farm, like they kind of have it made. I think I’m living my life wrong. And so she starts reading the Bible and she starts thinking about God and being like, “I think I’m religious.”

Sitting in churches. And the last scene I just watched last night from the [00:28:00] latest episode, there’s a burning bush. They’re really leaning into it. They’re like... and it... That was... So a major theme of it, and I think this is representative of where collectively we are in society, is oh my God, this hookup culture, OnlyFans women not getting married, sugar baby, everything’s transactional world is not rewarding.

We’re not happy. We’re not thriving. This is really bad. We need to get God again. And the people who never left God are like the happiest and the only ones who are doing okay right now. So I think there’s this additional layer. The communication layer, the- No, I, I

Malcolm Collins: actually disagree with that. Really? I’m gonna push back.

Actually- Okay ... what I think is the people who seem to be doing the best are the secular people who came to religion through logic. The people who are doing the second-best are the ones who always had religion, but typically the way that they practice their religion is a little less optimal for actually dealing with the crises of our time.

If you’re

Simone Collins: homeschooling on a Texan ranch in the middle of nowhere, you’re one of those, “I came to this very thoughtfully.”

Malcolm Collins: Right, but there are some people who are [00:29:00] still holds out from like the old evangelical communities and stuff like that. Sure. Yeah. And they just seem to be just broadly unprepared to interact with the modern world in a meaningful way.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Well, as soon as they interact with the modern world, they crash and burn because they’re not resilient to it, as we talked about extensively. Yeah, they’re not resilient.

Malcolm Collins: It’s... And you, you sort of have to go through, you know, uh, to an ex- or have some, some members of your community that have fully gone through it understand why it was tempting and understand why you failed to convince them in the past to build better arguments for the next generation.

Yeah. If you were convinced by the, you know, “Just read the Bible” argument, your kids are gonna be just as susceptible because you don’t know why that argument may not appeal to somebody, right? Yeah. And, and I think that, uh, this show shows how many people come to this, is they see, “Oh, like this isn’t working.

This old way of doing things is working.” But-

Simone Collins: Yeah, and to be fair, all these characters were not raised in like religious contexts. They were raised in like our modern mainstream [00:30:00] urban lifestyle. What I’m

Malcolm Collins: interested to see is what is the online chatter about this direction the show is going. Can you ask an AI for a sentiment analysis?

Simone Collins: No, so the, no, what, what is, what is being said in the media is “Oh my God, suddenly MAGA loves Euphoria because...” for these reasons, you know? And, and also I think the S- Sy- Sydney Sweeney is the one who’s big on OnlyFans in this- Mm-hmm ... in the series, the, who’s famous for the jeans campaign who’s, you know, sort of like become this icon.

We all like Sydney

Malcolm Collins: Sweeney from the jeans interview. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Didn’t this... It was a com- it was a commercial. It was a, an ad campaign.

Speaker 4: I just wanted to give you the opportunity to deal with a passive aggressive accusation disguised as a question

Speaker 5: if your career brought you here, of what use was it?

Simone Collins: No,

Malcolm Collins: no, but there’s a famous interview [00:31:00] she did afterwards where like- Oh, with the- Do you know the- Yeah,

Simone Collins: the,

Malcolm Collins: the...

Simone Collins: Yes, yes. Yeah And she’s just like- so now, yeah, like the discourse is oh, and then a lot of people are trying to argue that the creator of Euphoria isn’t actually like turning to God and pro-MAGA or anything it’s just that he likes to troll people.

But there’s literally portions of like little montages of the Sydney Sweeney OnlyFans model character being interviewed for example. She like has her rise on the internet, you know, getting internet famous, and people are like, “Oh, are you a Democrat?” And she’s “I’m not retarded.” So- Yeah, no, it’s, it’s very...

It... Yes, the right apr- the right is enjoying season three. I- Wait,

Malcolm Collins: she says this in character in the show?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yes. Oh my God. It’s, it’s a great clip. It’s fantastic. They, they show this there’s the montage and it’s also her being “I just think, you know, women want to be able to be at home and you know, be wives and be-” I

Octavian: want you to come back and tell, and tell me more.

I learned that when you add vinegar [00:32:00] and bacon soda together they can create a new thing.

Simone Collins: Baking soda.

Octavian: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Baking soda. It

Octavian: kind of like fizzes if you’re really close.

Simone Collins: We should do that. We’ll do that tonight.

Octavian: But if you did it a lot, then it would be like a bottle and put all of the vinegar you have in that bottle, and it can create a big fizz. Like this big.

Simone Collins: That big, huh?

Yeah. I wanna get back to the original question This is, uh, our un- unofficial endorsement of Science Max as a YouTube channel for kids. I wanna get

Malcolm Collins: back to the original question here.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: wait, are these two different characters in the show? The one who’s a Sydney Sweeney character and the one who’s finding God?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They’re different characters. So multiple characters are moving in this direction, right? No, that’s ...

Simone Collins: What I’m trying to say, yes, is a major, major theme of this extremely popular public discourse show is finding God and finding the hollowness in, in sex work in general.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay, and calling it euphoria.

Wow, that’s, uh-

Simone Collins: Yeah ... on the nose. It’s great. No, and it ... Well, and this is the [00:33:00] third season of it. I actually couldn’t stomach the first two. I like the third one for whatever reason. But- Maybe ‘cause now it’s for

Malcolm Collins: conservatives. Anyway, your point. So hold on. I wanna get to the question of, while I don’t think for sure that it was genuinely mate blocking behavior- Yeah

did mate blocking motivate the rise of this ideology, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah, because ... Well, but I, here’s where I get confused, is it made sense to your early ... your earliest point was you were making the assumption that these were ugly women. Whereas these are hot women who date and have a lot of sex. So it’s

They don’t ... It’s not like they have trouble finding men. But that doesn’t mean that mean, popular girls don’t mate block. I mean, a, a, a major theme of pop- popular, hot, mean girls is mate blocking. So I don’t know. What, what, what is your take?

Malcolm Collins: So my take is, is that it partially likely led to it.

So, there was certainly, if you look at the early feminists, they were very often vile habergashes or whatever you wanna call them, right? Uh, fairly- A [00:34:00] haberdashery

Simone Collins: is where you buy buttons and ribbons. I don’t- I

Malcolm Collins: don’t even know. Whatever you wanna call them. Okay. Swamp things. Uh, trying to

I, I think that there’s a ... More than mate blocking, I think a lot of it was women who failed out of marriage marketplaces or failed to get the type of guy they thought they deserved and then wanted to r- increase the status of unattached women. I think that was more of what motivated it, right? They failed to achieve what they felt they deserved to achieve given their perceived self-status, which increased as a problem as women got access to easier and easier sex.

And then they, uh, looked at the world, this terrible and unfair world and they said, “Actually, I’m not low status. It is not l- “ And as the proportion of women who needed to believe this delusion increased and as men realized they could utilize this to [00:35:00] gain sexual access to women more easily it spread.

I think while it would be- Convenient for our narrative if it was genuine mate blocking. I think it was more about women not admitting their genuine low status in society and trying to normalize it.

‘ Cause I think that’s a stronger everyday drive for women. And then they have to do that uh, you know... What’s, what’s the word here?

Simone Collins: Or so I mean, if I were to reframe, it’s kind of like a sour grapes thing. But then as soon as they get the opportunity they’re like, “Oh, I want it and I’m gonna take it.”

They’re gonna pretend that they’re happy with their lot. I mean, could it, could it be also that these, Okay, these are, these are presumably top-tier women, right? They, they are, they are sleeping with the, the best men, but they’re also realizing that the best men are not willing to commit to long-term relationships, because a very common dynamic in modern dating markets is there’s no [00:36:00] reason for a man who’s an eight, nine, or 10 to settle down.

Because they have access to all the range of women. Like, why would they- Yeah. Well, unless they like literally- And say, “Oh, well” ...

Malcolm Collins: sit down and think

Simone Collins: their way out of

Malcolm Collins: it like I did. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Right? Yeah. Because that’s very unusual, right? So unless you’re like a, a, a good Christian man or you’re smart and like really, really disciplined.

Or I mean, I think what also helped for you is you, you were so slutty in your youth that like you got it out of your system. So unless you’ve done all, one of those things you’re, you’re, you’re not gonna commit. You know, I always wanted a

Malcolm Collins: wife. Uh, for my brother and I-

Simone Collins: Yeah, it was your identity ... it was inherent

Malcolm Collins: that we wanted wives.

That was like- It is also like

Simone Collins: in your DNA. Like you come from a long line of romantic men. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: For me it was always about the wife and kids. Uh, especially a good wife. And so, uh, it, I mean it’s interesting for me to reflect on, ‘cause it doesn’t just require like intellect and a sober mind.

‘Cause recently we were talking to one of our friends. And this friend I consider to be of the highest [00:37:00] intellectual caliber, highest ability to sit down and think through things, and yet he is unmarried, doesn’t have kids, and doesn’t seem to have a strong desire to get married even though I have tried to logic it through with him.

And why can’t he see it? Why can’t he sit down and be like, “Obviously this is stupid”? It’s not that he hates his ancestors, ‘cause he’s Jewish and he doesn’t seem to be like actively antisemitic or anything like that. I think it’s just he is in an environment But I was able to break out of that environment.

That’s the thing. I was in an environment that was as progressive as

Simone Collins: any- But what I’m saying is you’re very unusual, and maybe what’s happening is these... You already talked to your women, are like, “Oh my God, this is just never gonna happen. I need to embrace that I have to be like them.” And this is actually a common theme in discourse.

People are like, “Oh, women think that they have to be like men, that they have to sleep [00:38:00] around like men and enjoy one-night stands like men.” And that is a very Call Her Daddy theme, where they really act like they enjoy sex the same way that men enjoy sex. At least that’s kind of how I feel about it when I see- consume that content.

I’m like, “Oh,” this is a very... This, this looks like a woman trying so hard to pretend that she has male sexuality, and I’m not totally buying it. And so as soon, as soon as they, this rat floundering in the ocean trying to survive on the floating board, finds a lifeboat, it jumps onto it, ‘cause it’s like, “Oh, my God.”

Yeah. “I didn’t know this could happen, but it’s happening.” So I think maybe that’s, that’s another big factor here. Do you think so?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that these women who... No, the, the, the women- No ... who are out there saying marriage is terrible are really just trying to make themselves feel good. I really think that’s the case.

Well, yeah,

Simone Collins: but, but w- wait. You can say it, you can word it as feel good. I’m wording it as feel better in an environment where they feel like they really just... Marr- [00:39:00] a, a marriage that’s committed won’t work for them. And keep in mind case in point, uh, in, in my, in favor of my theory is Wizard Liz, right?

She was like, “Oh, I’m gonna be all independent,” and then she had a chance to get married, was so stoked about it, husband cheats on her. So she kind of, uh, feeds into actually the narrative ultimately of no, you as a woman if you’re trying to marry a high-value man, even if you’re a high-value woman, can’t have that dream.

Well, I mean, if you’re

Malcolm Collins: a woman and you marry a guy who’s much higher value than you, of course he’s gonna cheat on you, right? Like- I know. She should’ve just- How did we as society forget that? I thought that that was- I know,

Simone Collins: I know ... that’s just- It was maybe on the unmentioned thing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, to actually freak out about a high-value guy cheating on you is kind of...

Look, I get we’re, morality, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But also be f*****g realistic. Every king throughout history, almost every wealthy person throughout history has done this, right?

You... A- and, and worse, these people often come from progressive environments where [00:40:00] this is way more normalized.

They abandoned all of the social structure that was meant to punish the guy for doing this. Now he can just marry you but younger because you decided to freak out because he was sleeping with another woman. Oh. Again, I’m not pro cheating. I’m just being realistic here. When people are like, “Can you believe that Arnold Schwarzenegger cheat?”

I’m like, “Yeah, I can believe that.” People like, “Can you...” How, how do these... This is, this is a South Park scene.

Speaker 7: Why are rich, successful men suddenly going out and trying to have sex with lots of women and have perfectly good wives at home? I want answers. We believe that it may be an outbreak of sex addiction, sir. Of course, we all know the normal, healthy male thinks only of sex occasionally and has no desire for sex with multiple partners.

That’s right. Of course. But what about love? How could tons of fame and money make you forget about love?

Malcolm Collins: Why do these rich and famous men keep sleeping with other women? Like- [00:41:00] Ugh. And of course, if you don’t have a lot of kids yet, right? Like now the idea of cheating on Simone doesn’t make a lot of sense for me.

It’s just not worth my time because I’ve got five kids, and we’re doing a new one every year. Cheating would only slow that down. Maybe most people aren’t as psychotically, like... I mean, cheating I guess would always just be a ne- negative for most people, but, ugh, uh, my, my thought here is even from a pleasure standpoint, it’s just a waste of f*****g time at this point.

And I like the- I think cheating has a lot more

Simone Collins: to do with people who don’t have a clear objective function in their lives.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: And it’s not actually a- even necessarily about sexual gratification. It’s more about wanting to feel desired and special and/or to chase after new relationship energy, which is its own special flavor of high.

And if you don’t have a stronger mooring point, like a thing that you’re trying to fight for in life like I’m going to, you know, promote human flourishing, I’m gonna serve God, I’m gonna take [00:42:00] people to the stars, whatever it, it’s gonna be, right? Then it is going to be very appealing if suddenly someone starts giving you a bunch of attention, and there’s secrets, and you get to sneak around.

And it’s, it’s like the hide and seek plus sex. Who, who wouldn’t love that? So I think that might have something to do with it. I, I, I don’t really know of people who’ve had very prominent cheating scandals who also, in our modern day and age, who also have extremely strong, Mm-hmm. Oh, never mind. I take that

Malcolm Collins: back.

Wait, wait. What? Sorry, I, I missed the point. No. Nope, never mind. I just, I

Simone Collins: just- Wait, no, go back. What was it? Never mind. I th- I, I had a, I had a hypothesis that if a man had a strong objective function, he wouldn’t desire multiple female partners. Oh, and then you remembered

Malcolm Collins: Elon existed? Yes.

Simone Collins: Whoops. I was wrong.

Malcolm Collins: But I think it’s a strong obj- objective function plus naltrexone. I cannot, Opioid agonists are the f*****g [00:43:00] bomb, right? That is, if, if, if I... I would even work this into our religious practices, right? Like- Yeah ... for future generations and stuff like this. I think constantly he wouldn’t do it if he was on naltrexone.

He’d be so much more focused and efficient.

Simone Collins: My God, he would stop posting on X. He’d stop posting

Malcolm Collins: on X. He would. He’d stop all of the other drugs. He’d stop sleeping around. He’d just be focused on his mission.

Simone Collins: Oh my God.

Malcolm Collins: It is the true wonder drug.

Simone Collins: The, yes, the drug to rule them all, Naltrexone. Okay. Well, there you go. I don’t know if I have anything more to say on this, but I find it very interesting. And women are terrible, so I hope you’ve enjoyed that. Yes. And

Malcolm Collins: our fans like the women are terrible. If we get a Simone plushie, we’ll have it squeeze and it’ll say- Oh, yeah.

Squeeze

Simone Collins: and it says, “A woman, women

Malcolm Collins: are terrible.” Women

Simone Collins: are [00:44:00] terrible.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. With my fake woman wife who’s, uh, like hormonally not totally female because of hormones. Who takes the

Simone Collins: same hormones as a trans woman.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. So you- Great ... can see through the nonsense. I’m really selling guys a false bill of goods.

They’ll never get a woman like Simone. Because she’s- You’re out there. Out there. No, we have fans who are definitely seem to be as good as you. So, and for people who are unaware, of our, like while only 10% of our, like regular watchers are women-

Ironically, the sound dropped out here due to baby noises, but I was saying around forty to fifty percent of our most dedicated viewers, or at least the ones who are like subscribed on Patreon and reach out regularly, are women

Malcolm Collins: Of them are already married, I’ll be honest about that. You know, sane women get picked up pretty young, so. But not all of them are. Some of them are still dating.

Simone Collins: No, actually, a lot of them are, are single and available and interested, so. Oh, really? And there are people who have met who are like [00:45:00] actively talking and potentially romantically involved in our Discord server, so it, it happens.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, we get a marriage from our Discord server?

Simone Collins: No marriage yet. I’m just saying. There, things are starting.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I know some as well, so I’m excited about this. Well, what I have found is that the guys who are like a base camp or really Malcolm and Simone, like pragmatist guy, like devotees they make really good partners for women.

It’s what women basically tell me. They’re like, “I started...” The, we’ve had multiple people who have become fans of our show because they started dating a guy who was like really devoted to like our wider philosophical view of reality, and they’re like, “Yeah, it makes for really good boyfriends and husbands.”

Simone Collins: Well, a- I think that’s, uh, largely also because a lot of guys who follow base camp start dating like progressive women who are very unhappy, like seeing therapists, like active anxiety problems, et cetera. Like I’ve, I’ve seen this in, in our comments, like on, on Patreon and Substack and stuff.

We’re like, “Well, what do I do about them?” [00:46:00] And, you know, we’re like, “Well, hey, try to, you know, find their core values. Try to help them, you know, improve their lives, like actually get over their anxiety.” And I think it’s unusual for content creators to be like, “Oh, don’t dump your girlfriend. Do what her...

Do for her what therapists are failing to do. Like actually give her a mooring point in her life and a reason to not be... You know, to overcome her anxiety and all these things. Make her a better person, and then see if she is worth it for you.” So it makes sense. But anyway, I’m gonna- Love you ... blow a- Excited

Malcolm Collins: for pasta with pesto tonight.

See if we have some ravioli. If we don’t, I don’t care because I got pre-grated fresh Parmesan, not the sandy type from a can which just makes everything taste fantastic.

Simone Collins: I for one love grated cardboard, so I will just keep eating it.

Malcolm Collins: And good topic by the way. Oh, we didn’t end up going over that woman who was mad about the, the baseball star, You did.

You, you’ve told me everything I need to know. It w- it basically just shows that [00:47:00] yeah, the mids have had their brains cooked and they need to not feel bad.

I think so much of this female behavior is not about mate blocking and is about not accepting their own low status in society.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah. Good. True. All right. Love you.

Malcolm Collins: Love you. Bye. I’ll just ask. Will you be making the hot dogs for your parents

Simone Collins: anyway? I mean, I have them opened and they’re thawed, so it’s a tonight or tomorrow night thing. But I can do them tomorrow night with french fries, and then just pesto pasta tonight. Oh yeah,

Malcolm Collins: I would prefer that. Tomorrow night with french fries.

Ooh, and we could do actual deep-fried french fries again. I’m just gonna air fry them. Okay. That works for me too. We can see how good you can make them air fried.

Simone Collins: Yeah. ‘

Malcolm Collins: Cause

we never really tried to get that perfect.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and now’s the time ‘cause we... Well, not we, you got that air fryer from your late mother, and it’s really fancy, and it does things.

Malcolm Collins: It- but I was gonna ask you, [00:48:00] for the... We’re just doing pasta with pesto tonight. Let’s do some of the ravioli.

Simone Collins: What

Malcolm Collins: ravioli? Do we not have any in the fridge anymore?

Simone Collins: I’ll check. If we have some, I will give it to you. ‘Cause I don’t

Malcolm Collins: think I ate all of it last time. I think we have a serving or two left. We might have some

Simone Collins: squares.

Yeah, I have a lot of little things- All right ... squirreled away. So I will...

Ah. You. You. You wanna bite off my finger. You’re a little velociraptor. What are you doing? My

God. Okay,

Malcolm Collins: pulling

Simone Collins: up my notes,

Malcolm Collins: and... Oh,

I see. I

love the documentarian being like, “Well, you’re not a psychologist.” I’m like-

Can I- I mean, I am a psychologist

find out that I am.

She’s “Do you mean you have a degree?”

Simone Collins: I’m like, “Yes, I have a degree.” Yeah, yeah. She’s “Yeah, but where’s your degree?” And you’re like, “It’s... I have

a degree in psychology and neuroscience from the University of San Diego.” I don’t think you even said that. You didn’t even like... I didn’t [00:49:00] even

Malcolm Collins: flex

Simone Collins: on it like one of

Malcolm Collins: the- Yeah

best psychology degrees in the world, right? Like- Yeah.

Simone Collins: No. Like, why, why did you? What? You know what? That’s great. You’ve, you’ve, you’ve matured. You’re not even flexing anymore. You’re just- I still flex ... speaking, speaking from your position of quiet strength. Oh my

Malcolm Collins: God. Okay, so I’ve gotta tell our fans about this, ‘cause this has been so weird for me.

So I do these biweekly streams with Leaflet now that I really enjoy. She’s... I consider her one of my best friends these days. She is just such a joy to talk with. She’s so

Simone Collins: smart. Yeah. She’s an amazing person ... I don’t get stressed

Malcolm Collins: about interacting with her like I do with normal humans, which is fantastic for me.

So it’s been just really fun to have a genuine nerdy friend I can party with, have a 10-hour stream with every two weeks, right?

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, and, and someone else who apparently, you know, f- considers that partying instead of what most people consider to be partying like going out. Oh, it’s partying.

We’re, we’re

Malcolm Collins: staying up all night, I’m drinking, we’re talking about anime. That’s a party. Yeah, but

Simone Collins: most people think it means dropping egregious amounts of money at some kind of restaurant and [00:50:00] then going to a loud, crowded place, and I’m so glad that there are other people who just enjoy intellectual conversation.

But anyway,

Malcolm Collins: so there’s this faction of her community that they’re not in chat much. They don’t attack me in chat. They’re all fairly nice in chat. Who has like- I’ll put an image on screen here from one of the songs that they made where they

photoshopped Simone out of the song and, and out of an image of me kissing Simone, and they put Leaflet in, and they made it the song about how it could’ve been them.

And I’m like, “Guys I actually find this flattering.” I have my entire life, I will check myself on FanFiction.net and stuff like that for when people have started shipping me with, with whatever, writing crazy fan fics about me. It’s finally happening, and they’re all hate fics. They’re all just so lividly jealous that me, a married guy with five kids, has fantasy world taken their oshi from them.

And I [00:51:00] don’t know what to do. I’m like, h- how can I more convince them that I want her to be married? That her taken.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, I’m extremely- And that we really, really want her to find her person.

You know, they, they... I, I hated that photo of me,

and I like that photo of you, so they, they really fixed it actually.

They ...

Malcolm Collins: You

Simone Collins: totally look so much better in that photo, I’ll tell you what. I’ll tell you what.

Malcolm Collins: And it wasn’t like the song had no views. It had 700 views. That’s like as many as some of our more watched songs. That’s, uh, that’s, uh- And it was only in a couple

Simone Collins: days. Well, that’s fun. That’s fun.

Malcolm Collins: It’s not fun.

I wanted to

Simone Collins: be- It- ...

Malcolm Collins: one of the bros, a representative of the community- ... who they know would never steal their oshi from them. But no, now, now on the, the Malcolm and Simone iceberg that people have created before, you have the Malcolm Leaflet ship song. And hate to me. Everyone needs it.

Simone Collins: Everyone needs it.

Malcolm Collins: I, I will say, for people who don’t [00:52:00] think that I have game apparently my game is strong enough that just seeing me talk to a girl- You have fan

Simone Collins: fiction game. Well, I think if she spoke with anyone for long periods of time, this would happen.

Malcolm Collins: You think? So, yeah. Yeah, I, I, I hope to think that and it’s not, you know, me specifically.

Simone Collins: I, yeah. Okay, Octavian, you wanna say hi real quick?

Yeah.

Okay, hold on. Gotta lean in, buddy.

Okay.

He’s, he’s armed. Oh, I guess I’ll just, I’ll just move my camera. What do you want to say to the people?

Hi.

You just wanna say hi? You just wanna look derpy and say hi? Say something that you learned today.

Octavian: I learned that crystals order some crystals can dissolve.

Simone Collins: That is true. Some crystals can dissolve. Like what about salt crystals? Do they dissolve- Salt

Octavian: crystals. Yeah, sugar and salt.

Simone Collins: That is correct.

Octavian: And they, and they can reform into other, and they can [00:53:00] reform into other crystals.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, and sometimes you can use a seed crystal.

Octavian: Yeah, a seed crystal to reform them.

Exactly.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah,

Octavian: very good. Yeah, like sugar bops or something. Sugar

Simone Collins: bo- I don’t know what

that is, but sounds good.

Octavian: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. All right. Yeah. Go have fun- Yeah ... m- uh, murdering the- Yeah ... the pellets.

Octavian: Yeah. But you know if something went in the water and it disappeared, they can reform just like that, so- Just

Simone Collins: Just, just like that.

You heard it here first on Face Gram. I wonder

Octavian: if a magic-

Simone Collins: He is remarkably charismatic. That was good. You keep it up. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I know. He, he’s got game, uh, at, at four and a half. I, he comes off as incredibly likable. I’m, I’m really proud of... I mean, yeah, he’s gonna be good on air. You guys just wait a little bit.

Simone Collins: I know. He was, he was like, just today he was like, “I wish there were a third window that I could join.” Soon. Soon. Yeah. When he gets cogent thoughts, we’ll have him on. I, I told him he has to be able to read fluently. [00:54:00] He’s he’s going through the same hesitancy that I did at his age, so. All right. Let’s get started.

Speaker 9: But doesn’t picking them kill them?

But doesn’t that grind them up and then they die?

Do you love the flowers, Titan?

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