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In this conversation, Chris shares his journey of spiritual growth and his experiences with spiritual direction. Together we discuss groundedness, the impact of parenthood on understanding love, and the shift from knowledge-based spirituality to experiential spirituality. Chris emphasizes the role of unconditional acceptance in spiritual direction and the need for joy and freedom in the spiritual journey.We also discuss the differences between spiritual direction and counseling, and the importance of creating safe spaces for honest conversations. The discussion concludes with reflections on the future of spiritual direction in church culture and the significance of presence in relational ministry.