Artfully Told

In this episode, I welcome David Weinraub! He has been involved in professional theater productions, musical theater, and rock-and-roll bands, and talks about how his involvement with art has changed throughout the years with various life seasons.

Connect with David Weinraub: https://www.facebook.com/david.weinraub.5

Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | [email protected]

Schedule your podcast interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview

Artist's Edge: The Mission of Artist’s EDGE is to raise the level of Business Intelligence, Life Skills and Emotional Intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, their creativity, and their unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Click here to access all courses!

Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 12 - David Weinraub

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told ,where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my heart into the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever, really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.

[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello and welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey and I am so excited to have as my guest today, David Weinraub, and thank you so much, David, for joining me. I'm so delighted to speak with you today.

[00:00:49] David Weinraub: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to participate.

[00:00:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, I would love if you would start by sharing just a little bit about who you are and maybe some of your involvement in art.

[00:01:01] David Weinraub: Sure. Well, my name is David. I am a child of the seventies and grew up playing music. That turned into a love of rock and theater. As I continued to grow and after college, I began pursuing a career as an actor and did that and was able to pay my bills for a few years and then found a part-time job that turned into a full-time job in an office that I really enjoyed, and realized I can still continue to do art no matter what. I could still play music, I could still act, but I could also--didn't have to pursue it as my full-time gig, and continued to act. I met my wife. We were the only two people with day jobs on a six night a week dinner theater show, and we dated, got married a few years later, had a kid, and then I kind of dropped out of the art world for a while.

[00:01:55] I stopped performing when our son was born and I didn't get back to it until about three years ago, and I've been going nonstop ever since, and I love it. And I love that I can share with my family. I love that I can share it with the world, and I'm just having a great time continuing to make music and, and perform. So that's me in a reader's digest nutshell.

[00:02:18]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Yeah. I mean, I know that there are many, many layers to your stories of course, but that's great. I'm so glad you're back into it. And I love that you met your wife through that. That is wonderful.

[00:02:29] David Weinraub: Yeah, no, we would be, it was a dinner theater. So, you know, you, you get a paycheck just for performing, but you make more money by waiting tables, and we had day jobs and weren't able to get down to the theater in time for the dinner service before the show. So we would hang out backstage. It would just be the two of us, and that's how we really bonded and fell in love. So the theater has been great for us in many, many ways.

[00:02:53] Lindsey Dinneen: It sounds like it. That is awesome. Wonderful. Well, I'd love to hear a little bit about maybe some stories of times where art has impacted you, or even hear a little bit about, you know, the various projects that you're embarking on now.

[00:03:06] David Weinraub: Sure. Well, I guess my love of theater started in college. I was a Shakespeare fiend. I was an English major and I loved reading Shakespeare and analyzing Shakespeare, talking about it, and then my senior year, they were going to be doing "Henry the 4th," parts one and two in their entirety in the spring. And I decided in the fall, well, since they're doing it in the spring, I should audition. So they think I'm interested and then I can be a spear carrier, a soldier. And so I can just say I acted in one Shakespeare play. And I auditioned in the fall for a show called the "Prince of Homburg," which is a 16th century German piece very similar to the themes of "Henry the 4th."

[00:03:52]So a young upstart Prince doesn't really know how to become a leader and goofs off a lot, but then becomes a leader in his own right. And, I, I got cast in a pretty good role and I loved it. And, then from that point forward, all of my focus turned towards theater. I was able to complete a theater minor in an entire year before graduation. And then right after college, I just kept going with it. So it started with the love of Shakespeare. I worked for the Annapolis Shakespeare--I think it's under new management now--but the Annapolis Shakespeare Company after college. I did some modern dramas and black box theaters in downtown DC, which no longer exist.

[00:04:34] And then, I was auditioning a lot in New York while performing in DC and, then, fell into the dinner theater, 'cause I realized if I wanted to make money, I couldn't just do Shakespeare or weird modern dramas. The money was in musicals. And I played in bands in high school, in college as well. So I sang a little bit, but I started taking voice lessons and I got cast in a production of "Jesus Christ Superstar" as Pilot in the Giant Theater in Frederick, Maryland.

[00:05:07] And, then I, I just kept doing musicals for awhile. And then I met Catherine and we got married. We worked together on four shows in dinner theater and then did a few more after we got married in community theater in the Northern Virginia area. And then our son was born, and that was amazing, but we dropped out of performing in theater and started attending theater. We became a Shakespeare Theater subscribers and Kennedy Center subscribers. And that was just amazing as well, just to be able to enjoy something from the other side, which when you're performing six nights a week, you don't have as much time to see.

[00:05:42]I thought I still needed some sort of creative outlet when he was little, and then a friend of mine who I worked with who was in a band, asked me if I wanted to join his band. And the good thing about playing music--you can kind of take gigs when they become available to you, but also you can rehearse when it works for the whole band. All of us had day jobs. We were just, we called ourselves a bunch of old dudes who just got together and played when we could. And, we were getting more gigs, playing bars and stuff than we were able to take, because people travel for irregular job work and the children's calendars, you know, we had sports for our kids and stuff like that.

[00:06:19] And we just played when we could. The band was called the Black Shag Sherpas, and I think they still have a website. I'm not sure if there are any original members left in that band or if they're still playing, but they played some great funky, weird rock, jazz hybrid music along with some covers. So that was fun. So I never stepped away from art or music. I just found an outlet. And then how I got back into it-- the dinner theater where Catherine and I had met closed down and they had a reunion picnic. So people who had worked there from the time it opened in the mid-seventies, till the time it shut down in 2016, everyone was invited.

[00:07:06] And, I started talking to friends from the theater who I had not seen in 13 years, and I was telling them about playing in bands and they said, "Oh, you play in bands. Do you think you could get a band together to play the 'Rocky Horror Show?'" And I said, "I think I can." And that is how I got pulled into music, directing the "Rocky Horror Show" for the Workhouse Arts Theater in Lorton. And that's what started my journey into theater nonstop. Once again, began with the "Rocky Horror Show" in 2016.

[00:07:39]Lindsey Dinneen:  Wow. That is a really interesting trajectory. I mean, you, you have dabbled in all--well, not dabbled, you're a professional; I didn't mean it like that--but you have gotten to experience so many different outlets for your art. And I love the fact that even if you couldn't do what you had originally started doing throughout your entire career, you've actually helped yourself grow as an artist. Would you say that? That, you know, because you've been able to do so many different things?

[00:08:06] David Weinraub: Definitely! I mean, just sitting back as, as an active participant, as an observer, you learn so much from watching others and not, not that I would ever think, "Oh, I can do that better than so and so," 'cause I never thought that, but you, you can enjoy what they are doing and you can learn from the things you are seeing.

[00:08:25]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Absolutely. Well, do you have any specific things that come to mind as inspiration for maybe a new direction that you took, or just an encounter with art that may have really impacted you and helped you on this trajectory?

[00:08:40] David Weinraub: One of the more recent things I worked on, with one of your previous guests, was a production of "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson" for Dominion Stage, which is a very difficult piece. Andrew Jackson is a very divisive figure, especially nowadays. He was a horrible, horrible man who grew the size of the United States a quintuple fold from what it was by doing awful, awful things, which were admired at the time by many. His story was turned into a rock musical before "Hamilton" and it ran on Broadway very briefly. It was not well received.

[00:09:19] But, working with Dani Guy as the director, when she asked me to be involved, I wanted to, because I loved the music. It is just dirty rock and roll, which I love. And also the band gets to be on stage and interact with the other performers. So that's always fun. I was able to put together--I call them the best band in the world--'cause they are. And, we all listened to one another when we play and we listened to what's going on onstage. So if you show up night one, it might sound a little different than night two if someone plays something or acts in a slightly different way, we're going to react to it, the band or actors too. But working with this collaborative group of people, we made something really, really special and very poignant. And, you know, it sucks that there is no venue for live theater right now, nor should there be 'til it is safe to return to it. But to go out on a note like that was, you know, at the end of February, was not a bad thing to go out on it, to have in my recent memory.

[00:10:20]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So Dani did share a little bit about her experience with that too. And it sounds like it was just an incredible experience for everyone involved and brought out a lot of conversation about art. I mean, did--what were the reactions that you kind of encountered personally, positive or negative?

[00:10:39]David Weinraub: All positive in terms of, "This was a powerful piece." No one thought that we were doing anything wrong, who I spoke to. You know, we were pointing out, through beauty, we were able to point out some of the horrible things that have happened, and are continuing to happen, in this world, you know, through the power of performance, through the power of rock and roll, and dance and, and movement. I'm struggling to define what it was 'cause it is such a strange piece. But it was so beautiful the way it, it all came together. Does that make any sense?

[00:11:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. She, she shared about getting some mixed reactions and how she, as the director, wanted to help everyone kind of navigate through some criticism that, you know, all art gets. I mean, we all have dealt with that at some point, and her outlook was so, so amazing to me because she just--I love her approach of using people's criticism to really think through a different perspective. And I think that's a really wonderful thing that she brought to that production in particular. So I know it's kind of, we're kind of in a weird place right now, but do you have anything coming up that you're excited about? Or how, how are you still able to kind of express yourself and be artful in these crazy days?

[00:12:01] David Weinraub: Well, the amazing thing about artists is they always find a way to create, regardless of the circumstances. And I have many friends who have created online venues for us to do so. I've worked with a landless theater company as an actor. I did a production of "Puffs" with them last year, which is a "Harry Potter" spoof, and they are going to be releasing very soon some virtual performances. We recorded one, called "The Walking Fred," which is a spoof of "The Walking Dead," as told through the prism of the Flintstones.

[00:12:41]So, we recorded it via Zoom and they're putting, you know, special effects on it to make it look like we're, we all have the same backgrounds and that sort of thing. So hopefully that will be coming out soon. So that was a nice outlet to be able to act. And then, I have a friend, who is an amazing actor-singer, and he's also, he, hosts a number of drag brunches and drag bingos as "Lips," and Lips has a new show, which is a virtual drag, a talent show, and he asked me to work on some songs for it. So I was able to write some songs and I, I'm a dirty rock and roll player. I like playing live with groups of people. You know, I will play one instrument at a time, with groups of people, but by doing it this way, and him asking me to write something, I had to learn how to use Garage Band that was able to record myself, you know, multi-track it.

[00:13:34] So I'm playing all the instruments for, for this piece. So that should be out soon as well. So "Lips Virtual Drag Cabaret." So I'm, I'm finding things to keep me busy. I'm taking advantage of all that, that others are creating as well. Now that I have more time in the evenings, I'm watching it all. You know, there are so many people putting out--they're doing Zoom play readings. I was able to work with Dani again, and this was just for fun. I don't believe it was recorded, but as a stage reading of the "Duchess of Malfi," which is an amazing, Chekhovian, very dark drama. I don't think it was meant to be a comedy, but it kind of turned into one looking at it through 21st century prism. But we had a lot of fun just reading that. So there, there are always outlets to do things.

[00:14:19]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah. Now you mentioned writing songs. Was that something you had done before, or is that a little bit newer to you?

[00:14:26] David Weinraub: I have written songs for rock bands before, but I'd never recorded in a studio, you know, with engineers hanging around and stuff. But I never pursued it as something that I wanted to get out there and publish. The Black Shag Sherpas, which I mentioned before, we put out a four-song EP, which you could probably find online. But ever since then, since I got back into theater, I really haven't done any writing. So this was a nice outlet to do it once again. So this was just an, a fun, goofy, 1970s, disco rock. I was told to think of superheroes. So I was thinking of, you know, a combination of the "Wonder Woman" theme and, you know, seventies disco era Rolling Stones. And I put that together in my head to come up with a, with a theme song for them.

[00:15:13]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, neat. Well, that sounds incredible. I'm sure that's going to be great. Yeah, that's really neat. So I'm just curious, how has--or if, if it hasn't, that's fine too--but yeah, I guess more accurately, has becoming a father changed the way that you view art or create art?

[00:15:33] David Weinraub: Definitely. I'm always looking at things through, through my son's eyes now. Is this something that I think he would appreciate? Not that it always--I don't expect a, he's now 16 years old, so I don't expect him to like everything I like, and he wouldn't be a cool teenager if he did-- but, the answer is yes, it forces you to see things in a different way. And now thinking, like going to museums with him when he was very young, you know, we might take advantage of looking at an impressionist painting for the first time, but seeing it through the eyes of a three-year-old in a stroller, totally changes the way you take something in.

[00:16:08] And not that he understood the brushstrokes or the whole backstory of the impressionist or anything, and he just appreciated the art for what it was, you know, to him and seeing something with that freshness without having the 20-plus years of your experience on top of it lends you to appreciate it in a new way, totally different take on this. I don't know if you've ever watched the television show called "Community" from 10 years ago?

[00:16:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I have. I just actually recently got into it. What a fun show.

[00:16:37] David Weinraub: It's a great show and I loved it when it first aired, but he was too young to watch it then. So, we were watching it together now from the beginning and something simple and easily accessible on Netflix, just watching it through his eyes and all of the, the pop culture references that it makes, you know, discussing them with him. And then going back if they talked about, well, you know, all that makes a joke about a Martin Scorsese film, then we can pause and talk about Martin Scorsese, and then we can go back and watch a Scorsese film together. You know, a "Good Fellows" the next day. So, always looking at things through new eyes is, is, you know, through someone else's eyes and someone else's experience--it's convenient when they're in the same house as you, so you can discuss it too.

[00:17:21]Lindsey Dinneen: That's a great perspective. And it's, it's so interesting to hear how things change, you know, when you are getting the opportunity to experience them through somebody else's eyes, or with somebody who might also not share your opinion, and, and get to really explore that a bit.

[00:17:39] David Weinraub: Yeah, definitely. And while my son has seen many of the shows that I've worked on in the last three years, there are some that he has expressed absolutely no interest in at all once I've told them about it. And, I did a very strange show at the DC Fringe Festival last year, as an actor. It was a show called "Inferno," which was a modern take on Dante's "Inferno" as a musical. It is not for everybody. It, it won like some Best of Fringe Audience Awards. But I, I didn't think that that was something--I told him about it-- and he said, "No, I'm not interested in something that weird at all." And he did not see it, but that's okay.

[00:18:18] Lindsey Dinneen: It is okay. Well, and is he interested in being involved? Is he involved in the arts himself or does he just enjoy experiencing it or what does he like?

[00:18:27] David Weinraub: He is a very talented drummer. I'm, I'm so jealous. I, I, that's the one thing I never took lessons in, so I don't really know how to play drums. I can fake my way through it, but he is really, really good and takes lessons. And, he started the FaceTime lessons during this time with his teacher, since you can't do it in person, but, yeah, so he, he has some musical ability. He does not like performing in front of people though. He's finishing up his sophomore year in high school. He does stage crew, and he has designed some lighting grids for one of the shows at his school, but he has no desire to act or to, you know, be in marching band or anything like that. And as long as he's enjoying himself playing drums, I want him to keep playing drums. But it's not something that we force, nor do we expect him to do anything just because we tell him he has to.

[00:19:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, he's forging his own path. I love it. Well, thank you. That was so interesting to hear about your life's trajectory and also the different, really unique experiences that you've had and the ways that they've helped you grow and adopt as an artist. And so thank you for sharing about that.  That is really neat what you've been able to do.

[00:19:47] David Weinraub: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.

[00:19:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, if it's okay with you, I always like to ask my guests a couple of questions, completely subjective, just about your views on a couple of things related to art, is that okay?

[00:20:00] David Weinraub: Sure.

[00:20:01]Lindsey Dinneen: Great. Okay. So the first thing is, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:20:10] David Weinraub: That's not an easy question. I personally, I define art as anything that can enhance an emotion. I can go outside and I can see, you know, a turtle on my back deck who somehow found its way, you know, up the stairs to onto the porch. And, I find beauty in that and therefore that is art. To me, it elicits an emotion when it happens. Some people say that's where they see God in the world. And, I think in some ways, God and art are synonymous.

[00:20:54]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that answer. That's a pretty unique approach to it that I've heard so far. And I, I like that perspective a lot. Thank you for that. So the second question I have is, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:21:12] David Weinraub: The most important role of an artist is, is to bring out that emotion. This is going to sound really cheesy, but the biggest compliment, I, I--the happiest I've ever been after getting a compliment after a show was when I was music directing "Rock of Ages," which is a very silly show, 1980s rock music. The band, again, is on stage the whole time, just as in "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." The show doesn't have much of a point though, but, if you had seen the show on Broadway, you might've had a fantastic time. If you had seen the show at the Workhouse, we made it look like a real bar and it was a small intimate space. The band was right in the audience's face and yes, we were very well rehearsed and we knew our parts, but we played from the heart. We didn't necessarily play every single note exactly as written. It was not slick. And so that's what someone said to me after the show. That moved me so much because that band was, was reacting to the crowd and reacting to the actors on stage. We weren't just playing, you know, it didn't sound like a recording to them. And, that is what an artist is supposed to do. We're supposed to elicit an emotion. And even if it's, you know, playing an REO Speedwagon song, if it works, it works.

[00:22:32]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Okay. And then my final question is, and I'll explain my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is inclusive referring to an artist who shares a little bit about their work with whoever their audience is. So if that's a dancer, perhaps they share what inspired the choreography, or if that's a painter, maybe it's a title or a brief description. Versus exclusive kind of referring to the artist puts their work out there and then leaves it open to interpretation.

[00:23:11]David Weinraub:   I think art is always open to interpretation. However, I think that art should be inclusive. I don't think the point of an artist is to say only a few people can get this. If you don't understand what I'm doing, you are not a smart person. I don't think that's fair. I don't think that's right. I think that art should be made for everybody. Having said that, having participated in that reading of the "Duchess of Malfi," I'm not sure if you could put a production of the "Duchess of Malfi" on stage right now and expect someone who knows nothing about Jacobian-era language to understand every single moment of it. So you have to figure out a way to make that accessible to anyone who might show up. So it is on the, the artist's shoulders to, yes, allow for some interpretation of their art, but also to, to make it accessible to those who may not understand a hundred percent of it. Or like pausing "Community" when I'm watching it with my son, to explain the cultural references.

[00:24:18]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, because it enriches the experience. Otherwise it would just go flying over and, you know, not be a point of education and conversation. That makes complete sense. Yeah. Love it. Well, thank you again so very much, David, for joining me. I really appreciate it. And I, am very passionate about art and about sharing it, and I'm very grateful for people like you, who do take what they have and what they've developed, their different skill sets over the years, and then they do share that with the world and they give back. And I think, when you choose to do that, you truly make the world a better, more beautiful place. So on behalf of myself, thank you for sharing art with the world. I know I appreciate it.

[00:25:05] David Weinraub: And thank you, Lindsey, for bringing it to people's attention. This is a great forum. So thank you again for having me on.

[00:25:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And if people want to stay in touch with you, maybe find out about some of your upcoming productions, whether they're, you know, in person or online, is there a way for them to do that?

[00:25:26]David Weinraub: So the best way to just follow me on Facebook, just my name, David Weinraub. I don't have any other social media outlets right now.

[00:25:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Well, thank you again, David, for being here. Thank you to all of our listeners for joining us again. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love for you to share this episode with a friend or two, and I will catch you next time.

[00:25:53] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:26:04] Hey there, Artfully Told listeners. I wanted to share a really amazing resource with you that I think you will find invaluable. This website is called Artists' Edge. The mission of Artists' Edge is to raise the level of business intelligence, life skills, and emotional intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, creativity, and unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Artists' Edge is the education arm of Deborah Russell Coaching. And she is an awesome person who uses all of her business background and skills to really assist artists become who they want to be. She has a bunch of different products and courses that you can go through as well as personalized coaching. If you're a wannabe artist that wants to turn their passion into a career, or is an already established artist that wants to take their career to the next level, she is the person to talk to you about this. So please follow the link in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome Heidi Loubser! Heidi is a professional dancer and currently in school to earn her degree in math. She brings a unique perspective to art with her scientifically-inclined mind, and shares about the YouTube video that completely changed her dance training trajectory.

Connect with Heidi Loubser: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3XhnMolqfEN56S8wJLGspw

Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | [email protected]

Schedule your podcast interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview

Artist's Edge: The Mission of Artist’s EDGE is to raise the level of Business Intelligence, Life Skills and Emotional Intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, their creativity, and their unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Click here to access all courses!

Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 11 - Heidi Loubser

Lindsey Dinneen:  Hello! Welcome back to Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey and I am so excited to be sharing more art with you today. And I'm very privileged to have an absolutely wonderful person as my guest today. Her name is Heidi Loubser and she is a beautiful artist in many capacities, and I'm excited to hear more about all the different things that she does, but I know that she is an accomplished dancer and has been training, goodness, probably your whole life. So I'm sure I'll get to hear about that, but thank you so much, Heidi, for being on the show today.

[00:00:45]Heidi Loubser: Yes. I'm excited.

[00:00:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. And let's just go ahead and hear a little bit from you about who you are or your background, kind of whatever you want to share.

[00:00:55]Heidi Loubser: Sure. So my name is Heidi, as she said, and I'm 21 years old. I was born in  Pretoria, South Africa, and I lived there until I was eight years old. So that definitely shaped my early life. And then I've lived in the US since then. I grew up with my mother and both of my two older sisters dancing. So that was just always normal being at the ballet studio, did the "Nutcracker" every year, and just got more into it. As I got older, I decided to move more into contemporary and modern dance and that really caused me to look other places 'cause the studio I was training at was wonderful, but didn't offer especially any modern. So that's how I ended up in Kansas City at a program called Storling's Artist Development Program, trained there for two years.

[00:01:46] And that was really a great fit for me. I looked at college programs, but ADP was cheaper and a shorter time commitment and had more time in the studio, which is really what I wanted. I've also been in college sort of on and off part-time, full-time online in person, community colleges, all different combinations. And I studied math. I was studying physics and I've finally decided on math. So I have one year left of studying math and I dance with a company in town called Storling, and I'll be doing that again which I really love. So yeah, I think that's, that's pretty much me. I have the science brain and the art brain and I enjoy using them both.

[00:02:34]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. So you only have one year left. Oh, that's so exciting. I kind of remember, you know, when it was like a little more into the weeds for a while, and I know that's--at least now you can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel there.

[00:02:48] Heidi Loubser: Yeah. And the classes are getting harder. So I'm--but I know that there's a finish line.

[00:02:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Good. Do you have plans for that degree yet? I mean, I know plans are so wonky these days, but in theory, do you have any thoughts about what you want to do?

[00:03:09] Heidi Loubser: Right. So that's such a great question that has gone through so many transitions in my mind. Getting a college degree has always been an expectation in my family. It's also always been a privilege, definitely, that it has been possible in my family that I could pursue a degree. So that was kind of something that I just always knew: I'm getting a college degree. So the transitions have been in what my major would be. And then as I've progressed in dance and realized really just a few years ago that it was actually something I could do professionally, which I didn't know for a really long time, I kind of thought, "Oh, well, maybe I am not going to do whatever my major field is right away. So my degree most recently was actually in math, secondary education, so to teach in a high school, and I really would like to pursue performance, and other aspects of dance now, especially, as everyone says, while you're younger, take the time to do the dancing.

[00:04:10]And then, I mean, my interest in general long-term is definitely in education. I teach dance currently, which I really love and want to continue to do and to invest in dance education. So I've always joked that if I could, you know, be a professor at a university and teach in both the math, science, and dance departments.  That, that would sort of be my dream that would require about three master's degrees. So I don't think that's what we're actually going to do, but okay, I don't know. Being a professor has always been of some interest. I also, I've grown more and more interested in dance science. A lot of people suggested sort of physical therapy and things like that to me.

[00:04:51] And I'm really not interested in that. I remember I recently had a conversation with someone who's getting their masters in dance science and that was really interesting to me because I think especially as an educator, there's just a lot of practices I see in the classroom that I'm going, "Why are we still doing this?" You know, when we have the science to tell us what's helpful and what's not helpful. And then also there are just some standards that I see in the dance world that I don't think are healthy.  There's a crazy push for flexibility and just things like that.

[00:05:22] So yeah, I can sort of imagine myself going into dance science, but I'm a people person. So I don't know that I want to live my life in a laboratory, but that's the only way I really see them connecting. I think otherwise it's more just the, the logic part of it, I think, you know, and the critical thinking aspect. I think that's just how I teach dance is from a very analytical perspective. This is, you know, the precise way you need to do this step to do it correctly. And I think about it in the same way that I think about math, rather than I'm trying to make this step look pretty or something like that.

[00:06:02]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:06:02]Heidi Loubser: The plans are just, they're up in the air, obviously.

[00:06:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, of course, of course. Yeah. Well, I, yeah, I think, I think what's interesting is you bring a different approach to both your own performing and your teaching style. And I think that that's really unique and great, and I love--I think your approach is very in general, problem-solving, which I like, because I think that makes it a little more rich than simply--much more rich, to kind of have that approach rather than just like, "Hey, it's wrong. It needs to be fixed." But like "How?" because that's always a difficult thing.

[00:06:39] Heidi Loubser: And how much of that is changeable? I mean, especially in dance, you're working with the physical body, so there's a huge amount of like, how much are we trying to induce a feeling or an experience for the audience, and how much is that tied to aesthetically what you can produce? Because there's certainly a correlation, you know? I mean, that's why we have techniques that try to develop dancers that can produce certain kinds of positions and shapes and movements, but on the other hand, is that ultimately what's giving the audience, you know, the experience that they're having? I mean, there's so much room for, for things like artistry and that to contribute. So yeah, definitely problem solving. How can we share what we want to with the audience?

[00:07:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yeah, I love it. Well, I know you have at least one story to share with us, so I would love to hear what you have to say.

[00:07:35] Heidi Loubser: Yeah. So when I first read your post asking for encounters with art, this is the one that immediately came to mind. And I think it was the first one because it was both--it was the first in a lot of areas, I guess, is the best way to put it. So there is a company in Houston, Texas called Ad Deum company, run by Randall Flynn, and they're a company that their vision really centers on the intersection of dance and Christian faith. They really strive to authentically share their faith and hope, love, joy, peace--these good things from the Lord--with their audience through their movement.

[00:08:16] So I actually first discovered them on the wonderful platform of YouTube,  and what's amazing about Randy, about the director, is he's really put up a lot of their work on YouTube. So there are hundreds of videos that you can go watch. And especially in high school, when I was just trying to figure out what I thought about dance. And I was in a church, in a Christian school, and a Christian home, and really wondered, you know, what does dance look like in the context of my faith? And I found these YouTube videos and I started watching them and I was really blown away.

[00:08:53] First of all, I had never really seen modern dance before, classical modern dance. And I just loved the movement, totally fell in love. So it was the first in that area, but then also they weren't necessarily using Christian songs or even songs with lyrics. They were using instrumental music. The piece I'm going to speak about was a song that's been used in tons of different contexts called, "This Bitter Earth."

[00:09:18] And, I just stumbled across this video one day called, "This Bitter Earth," and I watched, and I was totally engaged. For one, I don't think I've ever been that engaged watching, especially a video with dance. It's so much better live, but I was really captivated, and basically the piece is just showing the tension between, you know, hope, but so many things to pull you away from hope in the world. At least that's really what I've experienced in the piece. And at the end of the piece, you know, there's two people that are circling in the middle and then there's people running around on the outside and it gets faster and there's more movement on the outside.

[00:09:56]And at the very end, these two people are looking away from each other. It's maybe a six minute piece and they just grab hands and they look at each other and it was really powerful for me. And I know that sounds super cheesy. There are so many pieces where it's like the look, the dramatic moment. But I, I think it really worked because it wasn't, it wasn't over done. They weren't necessarily trying to make a big dramatic moment. It was just sincere, sincere human connection of like, it's going to be okay. You know, there are a lot of troubles in this world, but like hope really is a real thing.

[00:10:35] And then that same year, actually, I loved this company so much. And I, as I said, was just in a season of exploration and in the dance world. I took a Greyhound bus to Houston, stayed in a hostel and went to this company spring intensive, and they actually performed that piece. It's choreographed by Steve Rooks in their studio. They did a little in-studio showing, which was really special for me to see it live. And I've had the opportunity to see it multiple times since then. It's been performed other places, but it was just very, very touching in terms of-- you know, you're not giving me a message and you're not saying words, but I'm really experiencing the virtue of hope is really, I think the best way I can put it.

[00:11:19]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, it sounds like that kind of helped you--well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but, this is just sort of something that I kind of got from it-- it sounds like it really kind of helped you, realize maybe a little bit more of, of how your faith and dance could intersect.

[00:11:36]Heidi Loubser: Yes. It's not necessarily, it has to look like this, but just, this is an option and I don't think it was an option I had seen or experienced before. Not that you can't do it a different way. Not that you always need to intentionally intersect them, but just this is possible and this can be really powerful. So it was such high quality dancing. And I think that was also huge, you know, because I had seen Ballet Magnificat, which is a beautiful company. They do really amazing work, but as I said, I had never seen really modern dance. And so I think it was just that like, wow, it is an option to do modern dance and to share really good and beautiful and powerful things. And to not have to use words or to be direct, you can truly use the art form of dance. It was just so cool to, like, see that option.

[00:12:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And from that, sort of launching point for you, how did that kind of change your trajectory as far as--I mean, I know you mentioned, you know, you'd grown up more in ballet and then were trying to explore more contemporary modern-- is that what pivoted you towards, towards that? Or how did that then impact the rest of your, your journey?

[00:12:53] Heidi Loubser: Hm. So I actually, I had begun exploring contemporary modern before, and I actually, I'm realizing I wasn't quite truthful earlier. I saw that piece maybe two years before I went to Houston. I wrote a paper my senior year of high school. I was in a course called Communication and Culture. And I wrote a research paper abou, Christianity and art, and what it meant to be a, quote unquote, Christian artist. And I talked about this specific piece in my paper. So I actually started exploring contemporary modern because I was having issues in my Achilles tendon from doing a lot of pointe work.

[00:13:31] And so that was kind of the point. So it wasn't necessarily about it being more serious or anything to do with integrating my faith. I think the greatest thing about going to Houston was I met several people from Kansas City when I went to that intensive. And they're actually how I found out about the opportunities in Kansas City. So that was really the biggest influence, but for sure, I mean, it's influenced the work that I create or even--yeah, last  Christmas, I was performing at a performance called "Illuminate the Arts" by Arts Inspired Network. And I decided to not fully choreograph my work, but just to pick a song, sort of pick a theme, come up with a few phrases, and I felt free to improvise it.

[00:14:19]And that was, that was really fun. And sort of maybe an example of how I've integrated those sorts of things. I first saw it at Ad Deum. I think it's still in progress. I have a lot to learn. So maybe in about a decade, I'll have some more answers for you. Still figuring it out. But yeah, that initial vision I think is still there.

[00:14:44]Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. So do you foresee yourself continuing to pursue more along the avenues of modern and contemporary rather than more classical movement? Or are you kind of open or?

[00:14:57] Heidi Loubser: You know? I'm open. I think there are so many different factors when it comes to what you form. There's the movement style. There's the content, you know, what are you sharing through the movement? There's all the logistical implications of the time, commitment, et cetera. I think for me, what's really come out on top of the priority is that we truly care for the audience and that we're trying to give them something, and that I'm not just on stage, that I can have a good time.

[00:15:32]I think that's really--that generosity, I think, is the best word--has really come out on top for me is the main thing that I care about. So I think when I see that somewhere, then I ask questions about the movement or about the specific storylines that they're telling, et cetera. Yeah, I would love to do more modern and to learn more techniques. I'm not totally sure where I'm headed. Obviously as an educator, always wanting to get more professional development, to have more to share with my students.

[00:16:03] So there's definitely a draw there to study more modern. But I think, I think the biggest thing really is just, are we trying to offer something good and true to our audience? And if that's true, then I'm--I don't know--I'm willing to try something new. I'm willing to learn a new style if I feel like that is happening.

[00:16:24] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's a good kind of baseline standard to have. And so then, then it's easier to kind of navigate your opportunities. If it meets that standard, great, then maybe that's something to explore, and if it doesn't, yeah well, it's not for you. Yeah, I think that's, that's wonderful to have that kind of a clear, I dunno, set of guidelines that are things to kind of ponder.  Well, I have a few questions that I like to ask my guests if that's okay with you.

[00:16:48] Heidi Loubser: Yes, I'd love to hear them.

[00:16:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. All right. So first of all, how do you personally define art, or what is art to you?

[00:16:58]Heidi Loubser: Oh, gosh, we're jumping right in. Oh!

[00:17:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yes.

[00:17:03]Heidi Loubser: Well, I'll, I'll just start off by saying, I honestly don't completely know. I feel like the word is so it's thrown around so much that it-- I find myself in a conversation, I'm responding to how that person is defining it. Do you know what I mean? As long as we can commonly define in this conversation where this is what we're talking about, then that helps me.

[00:17:29]I think I maybe have a classical definition of visual art, performing art, you know?  I do think there's some amount of emotional tie to it.  I mean, even if I go out and look at the sunset, I think that can be, I guess, an artistic experience. I guess to me, it also really depends why we need to define it. So for example, if we're trying to define it for a grant process, you know, to decide who can apply, that's really different than trying to define it for the sake of my worldview .

[00:18:03] I tend to sort of go, okay, what category, what sphere of life are we in? And what is it applied to in this situation? Because if we're in school and we're talking about needing to give kids art classes, you know, as opposed to all the classes they already have, we're probably talking about a specific arts skill, such as drawing, singing, you know, playing an instrument. Even though the general idea of being creative, which I think some people would say, well, art is basically creativity. Well, I promise you, you need creativity in math. I mean, the kind of math classes I'm in there is no formula to find the answer anymore. It's literally, here's your differential equation. You need to guess the solution.  You know, if you see artists' creativity, well, that's very artistic. You need a lot of creativity. So, yeah, so that's why in my mind, that's too broad. I mean, everything has an element of art in it then.

[00:18:57]Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Well, and, and, like art, you know, it's subjective. Everyone has a different kind of opinion on that. But yeah, so you're saying like, it depends. So you would define art in different contexts. So like, it depends on the context that, that the conversation is around how you would necessarily define art. Is that correct?

[00:19:14] Heidi Loubser: I think so. I think if I'm trying to one sentence to it, I mean, art is the act of creating . You know, we take one resource and we transform it into another. We take a body and we mold it to do certain things on stage. We take clay and we turn it into a sculpture. So maybe, yeah, the act of creating, if I had to boil it down to a phrase, but if you ask me in a year, I'm probably going to have a different answer.

[00:19:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.  I've not heard it said like that before, and I think that that brings up a very good point of the context does matter.  Well, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:19:50] Heidi Loubser: So, okay. Maybe this isn't a role but I think I would say--to be telling, or, you know, in dance or other forms we're not telling, but to be sharing the truth. I think of artists in some ways is a huge part of like the global marketing team. I mean, if you think about what people's opinions or worldviews or just what they believe about it, any number of things, art is often a huge part of, of how they got there. You know, we're not creating those ideas obviously, but I think artists are usually the ones expressing them or propagating them or suggesting that this is closer to what it should be, what we should be fighting for.

[00:20:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:20:35] Heidi Loubser: Or even if it's, as artists are bringing joy and we're just bringing some humor and laughter and, and entertainment, you know, which is totally real as well, that's suggesting that that's valuable in life, right? So in my mind, there's a lot of different things you could be expressing with art, but it's the most important thing for me is just that what you're expressing is, is true. It lines up with reality, which doesn't mean that it's not fictional. I mean, obviously you could do a play about a fictional story, but you're, you're sharing truth through that. Not that it's factually correct, but you're, you're promoting and you're encouraging things in life that are really important and matter.

[00:21:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I think truth is really important in art.  Good answer. Okay. My final question, and I'll define my terms a little bit-- do you think, and just again, in your own opinion--that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And here's what I mean by that. So with exclusive, we're talking about an artist putting their work out into the world and not necessarily providing any particular context behind it so that the audience can take from it just what they want? Versus inclusive kind of referring to an artist that, you know, includes the program notes or has a description, or essentially you understand what the artist's intention was behind the piece, regardless of what you draw from it.

[00:22:07]Heidi Loubser: I've had a number of conversations about this topic, especially with my parents actually, because they very much, they always want more information. They always want to know what the artist intended. They're frustrated when they don't understand, which has been really helpful for me actually, especially from my father, because he's not a dancer. And so to go, okay, someone on the outside is looking for more information. If I have to choose one, I think I'm going to say inclusive. I, I think the way that I prefer it to happen is that the information is there, it's available, but it's not forced on the audience. You know? So I think, for example, putting it in a program note is a really great way to do that.

[00:22:51] The program is free at the door. They can read it if they want to. What I often choose to do personally is to read it afterwards. You know, I want that information, but I like to sort of just watch the piece for itself. If we're talking about dance first and then to hear what they had to say, but I also am trying to become more sensitive to the idea that there are a lot of people that feel totally lost. They feel stupid that they don't understand art. And I think, you know, if you teach, if you expect someone to read English, I mean, we taught them the letters, right? We taught them what each word means. You don't expect someone to pick up an English book and understand it if they don't know English.

[00:23:30] And I think in some ways, you know, like dancers, sculpture painting can be a whole other language. Oh, well the color red symbolizes this and the color blue symbolizes that and giving them that information is helping them to, quote unquote, "read" the painting. So, yeah, I would say yes, inclusive, but I also know that there are some artists who--they're specifically creating work for the intention of having other people interpret it through their experiences. So almost like therapy. They really, they don't want people to know their backstory. They want people to process their own experiences. And I think that can be helpful. I mean, I often think maybe if they would say that more clearly that people could walk away with more--if they know, okay, that's what I'm supposed to do in this scenario.

[00:24:19] Because I think sometimes people don't know that they're supposed to do that, or even that they're invited to do that. And so they're just scared. But yeah, I would say, I mean, I would say inclusive 'cause even as a dancer, as someone who's familiar with this world from the inside, there are still times when I wish I had more information. And so it's sort of like, if I wish that, then surely people who don't know this language at all, who've never been in a studio are going to want some level of context.

[00:24:48]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Love it.

[00:24:51] Heidi Loubser: These are great questions. Wow.

[00:24:54] Lindsey Dinneen: It, you know, and it's so interesting because it brings up a lot of interesting points and people have, have shared very different opinions on it. And I think that's important too, to have those conversations about sort of even just why you believe what you believe. Well, thank you so much again, Heidi. I really appreciate you sharing your stories and your insights. Thank you for sharing art with the world. I am a firm believer that when you do create and, and, you know--kind of referring back to what you were talking about earlier--when you're generous with your art and your heart and soul really come through with-- whether you're dancing or writing or solving problems when you're giving-- there's, there's so much power and beauty that comes from that. And I truly believe it makes the world more beautiful place. And so I just want to say thank you for sharing. Well, thank you so much again to everyone who has listened to this episode. And if you feel as inspired as I do right now, I hope that you'll share with a friend and continue to share art with the world in that way. And I just want to say thank you, and we will catch you next time.

[00:26:07] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:26:18] Hey there, Artfully Told listeners. I wanted to share a really amazing resource with you that I think you will find invaluable. This website is called Artists' Edge. The mission of Artists' Edge is to raise the level of business intelligence, life skills and emotional intelligence. For people who are committed to expressing their passions, creativity, and unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease Artists' Edge is the education arm of Deborah Russell Coaching. And she is an awesome person who uses all of her business background and skills to really assist artists become who they want to be. She has a bunch of different products, courses that you can go through as well as personalized coaching. If you're a wanna-be artist that wants to turn their passion into a career, or is an already established artist that wants to take their career to the next level, she is the person to talk to you about this. So please follow the link in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome Katheryn Krouse! She shares her journey from studying to become an art teacher to a full-time professional artist, and how her diagnosis of Stargardt disease led her to her unique take on painting and artwork. She also shares how her cat, Ewok, has been her inspiration too! 

Get in touch with Katheryn Krouse: https://www.facebook.com/Katheryn.Krouse.Art | https://www.instagram.com/kkrouseart/ | https://www.etsy.com/shop/KatherynKrouseArt

Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | [email protected]

Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview

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Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 010 - Katheryn Krouse

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello and welcome back to Artfully Told. I am so excited to be here with you today. I'm Lindsey, I'm your host, and today I am delighted to have Katheryn Krouse on the podcast as my guests. She is a beautifully accomplished visual artist and she does a lot of different paintings, and she's going to actually share with us all about it. So I don't really want to spoil it very much, but she is local to Kansas City and a lot of her work is actually based in the Kansas City area. But anyway, thank you so much for joining me, Katheryn. I'm so happy that you're here.

[00:00:40] Katheryn Krouse: Aww, thank you for having me.

[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course! Well, I wondered if you wouldn't mind just sharing just a little bit about yourself and maybe kind of what you're up to, you know, nowadays, especially in this kind of odd time of life.

[00:00:55] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, it is, it is a really bizarre time. But yup, I'm a local artist. I grew up in Overland Park and then I went to school at KU, and after graduating in 2012, I moved into my downtown apartment, which is also where I operate out of, and as my art studio. So I've been doing this full time since 2013 and I just, I just really love how that Kansas City kind of allows and can afford enough opportunities to make all of that possible.

[00:01:28]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Super supportive of the arts.

[00:01:30] Katheryn Krouse: So it's kind of a bizarre time, you know, with the quarantine. It's also kind of, you know, enjoyable too though. I mean, it allows us artists to really be able to focus on our art and even experiment and try different things. And it's just, it brings us back to really focusing on the process and the creative, you know, experience behind it. I actually love working from home. So while it's an interesting a adjustment for a lot of other people, I, I have actually gotten really good at it. And I, and I enjoy it. I love being able to like take little breaks and cook a nice lunch or prepare, you know, I just love operating out of my home.

[00:02:10]And I get a lot of inspiration, you know, out of like the views, and you know my apartment's right off 11th and Grand. And so it overlooks downtown North and West, and I've always wanted to kind of capture the views that I get so much inspiration from, you know, whether it be during a storm or sunset or different, different lighting. I've always kind of wanted to capture that.

[00:02:33] And so I'm actually working on a series right now that kind of addresses quarantine. But it's just my house plants in the windows overlooking, you know, downtown. So each wall, each painting is a little composition of the window, but the plants are in the foreground and they're very textured, very thick impasto paint, which is really luxurious for me to work with. And each one together, they tell us a narrative that kind of captures this bizarre time where the streets were very quiet. There's there's no traffic. But inside, the plants are thriving and full of color, full of light. So it's kind of a fun series.

[00:03:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah, well, that is a great, I love that idea of having such a dynamic contrast between, like you were saying, the outside and the inside, but they're still full of life. And, and I think that's actually--I actually really love that as a metaphor, just in general, as, as you know, as an artist you're still dedicated to kind of bringing that beauty to, to the world, no matter what the circumstances are. I think that's really neat.

[00:03:42] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:44]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, I'm curious to know kind of even, your backstory a little bit. How did you even get involved with art in the first place? What led you to a career as a professional artist?

[00:03:56] Katheryn Krouse: So really I've always made art. Even as a little girl, I loved getting, I mean, those were my Christmas gifts and birthday gifts were always some form of art materials or art supplies. I, I've just always loved, started off painting my cat or painting, you know. I wanted a dog really bad, so I would start drawing the different dogs that I might want and, you know, just, I loved  and coloring and drawing, from as long as I can remember. And I remember in high school actually feeling this pressure that I think a lot of people can relate to where we're just pressured and were asked over and over again, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" And how intimidating that felt? And I remember looking around and I was actually very close with my high school art teachers and they were so silly and fun and our class was always a good time and they just loved what they were doing.

[00:04:53] They had summers off for summer vacation and they're able to sell their own art on the side at art fairs and different galleries and whatnot. And so I just, I just love that that really appealed to me and it, and it seemed feasible way to kind of continue doing art and also enjoy what I'm doing. So I actually, I went to school at KU and I studied that. I studied art education for three years. And then, and during that time really enjoyed all the studio classes I took and the art history, and I just really enjoyed and really felt confident that that's what I wanted to do.

[00:05:34] However, my junior year, I was actually diagnosed with this eye condition called Stargardt's disease, which, you know, no one in my family knew what that was. No one had ever heard of it. It just seemed really bizarre, but basically I was having a hard time reading size 12 font on the computer screen. So I was used to writing papers and filling out, completing assignments. And I was realizing that I was getting closer and closer to the screen and I would strain my eyes.

[00:06:05] And so we went to our family eye doctor, and it just became one referral after the next to different retina specialists. And I was diagnosed with a severe case of Stargardt's disease which is a macular degeneration in my retinas. And the best way I can describe it is that I interpret my light values to be a lot brighter and my dark values a lot darker.

[00:06:31] So for example, if it's really bright outside and someone is standing in front of a window, that contrast makes it really kind of difficult for me to recognize them or right away kind of adjust to that. And so that became something that I really enjoyed communicating through my work. I started experimenting with really vibrant color palettes that kind of communicates a visual vibration for the viewer who's not visually impaired. Like it still gives the viewer something different visually. And that's also why I like working with a lot of texture. I think that gives the piece something different for the viewer to look at whether they're close to it versus for far away, it kind of evolves under different lighting and that all kind of started.

[00:07:21] Then I started, I had this like really weird year. That meant like processing all of this, but I also started making really, really cool art and that became healing. And it was really about experimenting with texture and experimenting with different colors that it just became really a lot of fun. And also during this time I became skeptical that being an art teacher was really what I wanted to do. I was taking higher level courses about and learning about the curriculum and also learning about how competitive it was going to be to land a good job in a good school district. Unfortunately a lot of the schools are getting cut budgets, you know, that they're losing their budget for theater, art music.

[00:08:11] And so it was very competitive, and I believe still is, to get a job like that. And, frankly, I didn't have the best grades that year. That year it was a difficult and took a toll on my grades certainly. So it just, it wasn't seeming so realistic. And then at the same time, my eye condition was progressing. Within six months, I wasn't able to drive. So it was kind of bizarre. I'm not running into things, but I have what's considered low vision enough to the point where I can't drive. So it wasn't feasible, it just didn't seem feasible to be driving in and out of, you know, suburbia to these good schools that I'd hopefully land a job.

[00:08:53] And so I ultimately made the decision that I didn't want to be a teacher at all anymore. I just, if I'm going to be competitive, I'd rather just be a full-time artist. And that's kind of also--I moved downtown to where I am because I'm very mobile. At one point, every bus route in Kansas City stopped at 11th and Grand. I'm just a couple blocks away from the street car. I mean, I love being still independent in that way.

[00:09:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And so you changed direction. Did it take you--you mentioned like a whole year being really challenging, of course, as you're wrestling with this and trying to figure out, you know, what that means for you as an artist, but, so, so then when you change directions, you kind of dove right into your--

[00:09:42]Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, I took a nose dive. It was the summer in between my junior and senior year that I did my very first art fair, which was the Missouri Wine Festival in Excelsior Springs. And it was at the Elms Hotel. And before that, I mean, I had no idea that this would really work. I mean, I, I think I had about 10 or 12 paintings and they were all only priced around a hundred dollars, but I sold all of them and it was like, "Oh my gosh, $1,200."

[00:10:12] I mean, I felt like such a victory that I was like, "Oh my gosh, if I just do enough of these art fairs, and have a better inventory and, you know, get a better booth." So that it's, it only becomes easier. I, it really occurred to me that people actually do buy original art and they do like having a connection with the artists even, and that you can achieve all that at these art fairs.

[00:10:38] So, I think it was really--all that kind of happened at the same time. Like I was becoming skeptical that I really, that I was a good fit to be a high school art teacher. And also like that I could actually pull off being an artist full time and that that's, you know, that's another reason I love Kansas City so much is that I can afford a lovely apartment downtown that has, you know, the master bedroom is my studio space.

[00:11:07] So it's on a corner unit. So it has four huge windows that natural light just pours in and, you know, to have a workspace like that is just so valuable to me. And to be able to operate full time out of this, but to have enough opportunities in Kansas City, that it can really afford me to do this. I mean, I've, I've considered moving to Austin several times. I do a show there twice a year. So this Pecan Street Festival I've done 10 times, and just going twice a year, it usually ends up being about a third of my income. So I actually quit. Yeah. I've thought about, maybe I should move there and do a couple shows in Kansas City. But the thing is, is that it's so expensive.

[00:11:52] I mean, there's no way to just afford to do this full time. I'd have to have another job, much smaller apartment, a much like, a much weaker studio space. Yeah. And it's just like, wow, that does make Kansas City just so charming. To both have to both be affordable and have that many opportunities still.

[00:12:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's something I've always appreciated about Kansas City since moving here. Cause I'm, I'm not a native, but when I moved here, I realized immediately how strong the arts community is here, but also how, how supportive of the arts community Kansas City is. So even if you're not necessarily an artist, I mean, you're participating in art in some way. And I love that.

[00:12:38] Katheryn Krouse: Yes. Yeah. That's so cool. I mean the different events, I mean the Kansas City Fringe Festival, I mean, there's so many events that make it so accessible to everybody that it's, it's inclusive and, and a lot of the artists are that way too I've noticed. I mean, I've met some of my best friends through, through doing this that's all people that are doing the same thing. And, and I just love it that so many artists here have share the attitude and that we're all in this together. And that there's enough room for all of us and it's right, you know, it's competitive, but it's also very, very inclusive in nature.

[00:13:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yeah. I highly value that. I haven't found that anywhere else so far yet. But yeah. Yeah, no, that's amazing. So then I know that, because you've been on the road quite a bit and, you know, you have all these different festivals and art fairs that you participate in. I'm sure that. Some pretty interesting stories have emerged just from, you know, having to, having to deal with different aspects of, I don't even know because I'm not a visual artist, but like transporting your art, and I'm sure all of that plays into some interesting times.

[00:13:51] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, it sure does. I mean, one of the things I can say is that it's definitely handy to be resourceful because it always seems that something's coming up to make it more difficult. I remember when I first started dating my boyfriend, we went out like a year before I even let him come close to an art fair because I didn't want him to really see how, how brutal it actually is. I mean, he thought that being an artist was like a glamorous thing. And so, the very first art fair I actually took them on was a trip to Chicago and it was for an art fair. So we put a hitch on his, on his car and we, we're hauling all my stuff up and I just remember wanting to impress him. Like I wanted it to go so smooth. I wanted to have everything just ready and just very easy.

[00:14:40] And of course the whole trip, it couldn't have been anything further from that, but like, you know, I'm running behind and we weren't able to leave on time and my paintings weren't dry. So it was all the typical things that I was really hoping to avoid this time. And we get there and this show in Chicago, it's set up is especially, I'm trying, it's very unorganized and it's just part of it. You just have to kind of get there and laugh with it and not let it bother you 'cause it's a long day. It's like early morning set up and it's just not worth getting all worked up over. And it's like that every time.

[00:15:18] And so we get there and we're in line for set up and it just starts pouring rain. And we're talk...we're laughing or we're telling ourselves, oh well, at least it's not thundering. And then of course it starts thundering. I mean, I think it started raining for a little bit and we're just waiting, pulling up closer, closer to our booth setup. I mean the whole show. Yeah, set up couldn't have been worse, like yeah, of course.  It was also the first year that I expanded to a double booth. So I was used to having a 10 foot by 10 foot booth space to work with. I was very familiar with like how much art at that takes to fill up and all of that. But since I just expanded to a double booth, I was still unsure that I had enough art.

[00:16:02] I was stressing. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I don't have enough art. I don't have enough art." That's why we didn't leave on time. 'Cause I was still finishing things and I actually made this painting not too long before this for my bedroom. And this was a painting I really painted for me. I didn't have the intention of selling it and it was very large. It was 42 by 70, and it's this beautiful, colorful, loose rendering of a nude and the way she is, it looks like she's kind of looking out my window in the bedroom and it's just like a very fast paced, loose, colorful painting, but I really did paint for me and it was a healing piece, but because this was the first time I'd had a double booth, I was thinking, "Oh, I'll just bring that with me, just in case I don't have enough art." I'll put a really high price tag on it, because if somebody does love it, I would feel good about selling it actually, but I really kind of just want to bring it up. And somehow we lost that painting. I mean, it was the funniest, this is our thing. We're, yeah, and I don't know whether it happened during takedown, but it ended up being a great show.

[00:17:09] I did have enough art. The storm cleared up and it ended up being a very, very good show in sales and everything. And it was good for my boyfriend to kind of experience that all in its entirety. And we're just exhausted and we're driving back home and we're about halfway, we're about halfway home or in St. Louis. So all of a sudden my trailer breaks down. The wheel bearing, it turns out gave out or broke, I'm not sure. Matt was driving and he all of a sudden sees that the wheel is just all over the place and we're in a bad part of town. We're in East St. Louis, it's getting late and we have to pull over to denny's in the parking lot.

[00:17:56] And he says, "Yes, we can't drive with this." And I'm just like, "Oh man, this is the worst thing I can imagine happening." And, we, we weren't sure what to do. I was actually already in the market for another trailer, this trailer that we had, I had had for a long time. I bought it when I was getting started and it was a great deal. It was actually a trade. I think it was like $500 and a painting, but it was for a good, enclosed five by eight trailer, but it was a Harley Davidson trailer and it was very heavy. And so it's a lot of wear and tear on whatever vehicle is pulling it. And it was just time for an upgrade. It was a great thing to get me started.

[00:18:37]But I wasn't sure, you know, we were in East St. Louis. It's getting late. Like what do we do? It occurred to me: we could rent a U-Haul trailer, but that just seemed awful. 'Cause we'd have to unload it, load it, get to Kansas City, carry that all up into my apartment. I mean, that just sounded awful. So I ended up getting on Craigslist and finding a trailer. I bought a trailer. I had made just enough cash on me from the art fair in Chicago that ended up buying, I bought a trailer on Craigslist right there. So we have to unload everything from the trailer. And it's just this big pile of debris. I'm sitting in my director's chair and not having the idea that we should, we shouldn't just leave the trailer here. And I just wasn't in a position where I could necessarily afford towing it. Really, it took all my cash to buy this trailer on Craigslist.

[00:19:32] So we had the good idea to take it to a junk yard and sold it for scrap metal and for the tires. And then, then he came back with the trailer that I had bought from Craigslist. And this whole time I'm just looking, overlooking all my stuff. I'm watching the storm come in and I'm like, that's certainly not going to hit us. And sure enough, it starts raining and pouring it. So I'm pushing all my stuff under this awning at Denny, and I'm looking around and I'm grateful. I'm like, Oh, good. That big painting for my bedroom, that must be in the vehicle, 'cause it's not here looking at all this stuff under this awning. And when he came back with the new trailer, I noticed that it wasn't in the car.

[00:20:15] It wasn't in the vehicle. It was, it, there's no explanation for that. I mean, I don't know. Maybe it went in the trailer and maybe we just didn't quite get that out during the transaction. I have no idea if we might've lost it during set up or not set up, but take down, you might have lost it during take down. Yeah. I don't know, but how do you lose a 42 inch by 70 inch paint on wood panel? I don't know. So it wasn't the end of the world. I ended up painting another one and it's, it makes my bedroom look just as good. Still, it was like the first thing I did when we got back. My whole bedroom just looked so sad without it. Oh my gosh, I can't handle this, like we would have to replace that.

[00:21:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, my gosh. Ah, that sounds like a Murphy's Law trip, especially like, Oh my goodness. You know, I understand wanting to--it's so funny, you mentioned earlier, sometimes the perception of artists, maybe from people who haven't been as involved, you know, is that the life is very glamorous and, you know.

[00:21:28] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, Instagram posts and things where we're dressed up and we're cleaned up, but they don't see--I mean, it's just so funny when people see me-- they just, they're so used to seeing me dress up all the time, the dress, and they don't realize I'm like, I'm in nasty paint clothes all day, every day. If I'm going somewhere, I do like being thoughtful in what I wear. I'm not in nice clothes all the time. It's actually the office.

[00:21:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Yeah. I remember one time being told something like, "Oh, well it just must be so amazing. You know, such a glamorous life. You get to do your dream job." And at the time I had just finished like a couple hours worth of scrubbing down our floor like on my hands and knees, right? And I was like, you have no idea. This is like the most unglamorous...

[00:22:23]Katheryn Krouse: I mean, set up for an art fair, it's just so much work. I mean, when I first got started, my booth was so much work to set up. It was, you know, I couldn't afford the pro panels that are lightweight and beautiful. So I kind of imitated them and made, made my own. And it was out of heavy plywood and fabric that was stretched over it. And it, and it was two by fours and four, but it was building a deck every weekend. I mean, it was so much work in the heat, in the rain. Yeah, it's humbling for sure.

[00:22:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, yes. Yeah, artists are very, very normal people doing, you know, sometimes I guess we get to do some extraordinary things, but on a daily basis, it's, it's just, it's just it's work. You know, it really is.

[00:23:12] Katheryn Krouse: And. I mean, we don't have photographers and designers, so it's everything. I mean, it's like, we're doing the marketing, we're doing the, you know, framing. So I, I don't stretch my own canvases. I generally buy them, but I mean, I did for a long time and it's a lot of work. Your hands get beaten up. I mean, it's just, that's a lot.

[00:23:29]Lindsey Dinneen: So for somebody who doesn't understand what that means, can you tell me about what stretching a canvas? Like what is that process?

[00:23:37] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah. Okay. So stretching your own canvas is really building it up from, from nothing. So you're, you're buying the wood and a lot of times you can buy it so it's, it's already angled. But basically you have to, you're taking loose canvas and pinching and hammering it and into its form over the woods stretcher. So if you're building the woods stretcher, it means constructing basically a wood frame and then taking the canvas that's cut and stretching it, stapling it, and, and then priming it with primer. And the bigger the canvases are, the harder that gets. It's difficult. Yeah. I mean, it's not that difficult. I'm just not good at it.

[00:24:23]I can be way more productive if that that's already done. Yeah, but there's a lot of other, you know, handiwork that goes into--it's putting on hang wire. It's maybe putting it in a frame or, you know, all the hardware. I always save all of that for the very last. It's like, I'll end up doing like 30 paintings, little eye hooks and hardware and hang wire all at once. And by the end of it, my hands are all torn up. I mean, it's just like, I just did this as I go.

[00:24:52]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness. Well, and that process is actually a good segue into my next question for you. I know that probably pricing your artwork is kind of an interesting challenge sometimes because, you know, it's not just a matter of making sure that you're covering for the supplies used and the, you know, the hours of time that you've put into it. But also, I mean, it's, it's all of the learning that you have done as a professional for years. Right? It's you having invested, yeah, in yourself. And so I'm just curious. I mean, what, how does that process kind of, kind of work for you?

[00:25:29] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah. I mean, it is different. I definitely consider my work to be more on the affordable side. I work very quickly and, and oftentimes I have several pieces that I'm working on all at once. Like I'll whip up a beautiful color of violet or green and just be like, okay, who else? Who all needs this? You know, and kind of go through and get it on everything. It's so, it's hard to say exactly how much time I spend on one painting.

[00:25:55] It generally is, I think, on the quicker side of creating things, but, and it's, it is, it's a tricky question, especially when other artists are getting started and they're not sure what to price it at. But I know for me, I like to stay busy. I like to kind of have a good turnaround. I don't love taking the same paintings to art fair after art fair or First Friday after First Friday. I kind of like having a fresh inventory and because I work quickly, it affords me to be able to kind of price them moderately and still move them for a price that can afford me to do this full time. So I think it's also having different price points.

[00:26:37] I mean, I, I don't feel good about a show unless I have really at least three big paintings to sell, but it's also about the little ones too. It's about prints. I mean, I sell--all my prints are really like about the same size 11 by 14, and those are just $25. So people can buy those and sometimes even pair them or just buy a few of them and cluster them together. I mean, that's a really lovely look and also makes them accessible. Everybody can have it.

[00:27:05]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I love that. I think that's really great because you know, everyone does have a little bit of a different budget. And so, I think it's really lovely that you are able to cater to that and you know, somebody who can't afford the large, original yet might still get to enjoy some of the prints.

[00:27:25] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah. And the, and the prints are great too. Cause they are, you know, they're 11 by 14 they're standard size. They don't have to go custom for framing. You know, you can get very inexpensive, but nice frames on sale at Michaels. So that makes it affordable.

[00:27:38]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, I love that. So, okay. So I know from a previous conversation with you that you're, you have a cat, is that correct? That that is involved in your creative process?

[00:27:51]Katheryn Krouse: He is a part of it. He's a part of the process. He follows me around everywhere I go. I mean, studio, if I'm taking a bath, he is right there next to the bathroom. But so when we're in the--he loves our days where we're just in the studio for hours and hours and hours. And sometimes all night, I mean, he loves it. He, I've got the--I got this little chair on Facebook marketplace in the corner and that's how he thinks that's for him. That's his place, but he's also, you know, he can also be a pain too.

[00:28:21] I mean, there's been times where I have a painting that's drying, leaning up against a wall. And he just thinks it's a good idea to just brush up against. I'm not giving him enough attention. It's like he gets into, he gets into all of it and then I have to absolutely stop what I'm doing, clean him up. Yeah. He's a funny one. And then he gets in all my pictures. It's like every time he sees that I'm trying to photograph my work, he thinks it's his moment. To sign and, and he's not wrong. I mean, it's so funny to me how I can make a post, and if he's in it, I get a better response. It's like more more people like it. So I call him my assistant 'cause he really kind of is.

[00:29:00]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. He's just, he's another artist, right? He's a model.

[00:29:05] Katheryn Krouse: He is, he absolutely is. It's really funny because he's so expressive and he's always looking at the camera to see what we're doing. Oh, he makes everything better.

[00:29:15] Lindsey Dinneen: So has he been the subject of some of your paintings or a subject in any of your paintings?

[00:29:22] Katheryn Krouse: You know, a little bit. I, you know, I told you when I started off as a little girl, kind of painting my cat, I actually got a resurgence of pet portrait commissions out of nowhere in the last year. And so I kind of have had fun doing people's pet portraits. They want them very colorful and expressive and, you know, their fur is often a good opportunity for texture and things like that. So I did paint a couple paintings of my cat, Ewok, just to kind of promote the pet portraits. And I swear that has like taken off. And so I was like, why didn't I do that sooner? It was just a funny thing that kind of came up really in the last year, but it's a fun, it's a really fun project, and everybody, people love their pets. People would want a portrait of their pet, but they do dog, cat likes being the place of that.

[00:30:13]Lindsey Dinneen: That's wonderful. I love it. You know, it's so funny too, because I feel like sometimes it happens as an artist is you think you're going in one direction, and then the market may shift or just, you know, your direction may change. And all of a sudden you think, "Oh, I did not expect to be doing this, but here we are."

[00:30:35]Katheryn Krouse: I mean, they're fast paced too. And because those don't take me very long, I mean, those are priced pretty fair, pretty affordable as well. So it's a good little favor.

[00:30:47] Lindsey Dinneen: That's great. Well, I have a couple of questions that I always like to ask my guests if you're up for that

[00:30:52] Katheryn Krouse: Of course.

[00:30:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Okay. So first, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:31:01]Katheryn Krouse: So I think I would define art as a thoughtful form of expression. I think it doesn't have to necessarily be creating a painting or writing a song or a poem. I think it can also include how you dress or how, how you cook, how someone cooks can be a form of art. I think that it can be anything or any way that one chooses to carry themselves--how, you know, how they decorate or different, different things. I think all of these are good forms of art.

[00:31:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:31:46] Katheryn Krouse: I think an important role for an artist is to just be authentic and true to, true to themselves. And even if that's not always the most likable approach to things, I mean, I think that that's an important role.

[00:32:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree. Okay. And then my last question is, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And just to give some context on that for anyone who might not know what my terms mean-- so what I'm kind of referring to is exclusive meaning that the artist puts a piece of work out there into the world and doesn't necessarily provide a whole lot of context. So perhaps, maybe it doesn't have a title or we don't know the inspiration behind it. It's, it's more for the audience to get what they will, versus, an artist who has an inclusive approach and does provide some context for it.

[00:32:46] So maybe that's the inspiration behind it or, or a title of a piece or program notes, kind of, depending on the art form, so basically helping the audience to understand what the artist was thinking or what their intention was behind it versus, not having that context.

[00:33:03] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah. That is a really good question. I think a lot of it depends on the art. I think that, for example, more abstract art or even dance or something like that--I think it is a little exciting at times to not have a context to it. My work, for example, I, I consider it to be very literal. It's a lot of cityscapes, it's pet portraits, it's, you know, the human form, and so I, for that reason, I mean, my titles even tend to be pretty direct as to what is being captured in the painting.

[00:33:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure.

[00:33:42] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, so I think a little bit of exclusive and inclusive is kind of a fun balance, I think.

[00:33:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much.  I just want to say, first of all, thank you so much again, for being part of the show, for joining me and for sharing about your art and your stories where I think everyone can relate. I think everyone can relate to those moments where you're just like, "What is happening here?" And I appreciate your, your, realness, because I think that's, that's really--Ugh. I'm glad it worked out in the end, but oh man.

[00:34:22] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah.

[00:34:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And you know, I, so since I'm also local to the Kansas City area, I've actually had the privilege of seeing quite a number of Katheryn's works over the last few years, 'cause we're both part of the Kansas City Fringe Festival every year. And I actually think that's kind of where I first started to get to know your work, but, it's just gorgeous. She has the most lovely approach, seriously, I think to her paintings and... So she talks about them being literal and, and the are, but I love the fact that they're so vibrant and textured and the things that make it unique and glorious. So thank you for sharing art with the world.

[00:35:05] Katheryn Krouse: Thank you so much. I really do have a lot of fun making it.

[00:35:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And on that note, can we get to see any of your work? I mean, is there a way that we can kind of connect with you, to be able to see maybe where your next show is, or purchase art online or anything like that?

[00:35:24] Katheryn Krouse: Yes, yes. Please follow me on Facebook. And my, my art page is Katheryn Krouse Art. So K A T H E R Y N, Krouse is K R O U S E Art. And then Instagram is K Krouse Art. And, I do also have an Etsy page that just has my prints on it and that, my Etsy shop name is Katheryn Krouse Art.

[00:35:48]And then the next show is a little bit unknown. I have been doing a lot of work, or I have been selling my art through, any, any form that anyone wants to commission art through an email or reaching out on Facebook or Instagram. I'm even offering curbside pickup. So you can come pick up your painting while social distancing, right there in front of Jimmy John's on 11th and Grand. And I'm, you know, it's just so unsure of when the next show will be, that it kind of, it is a good time to get good at selling online and finding other ways to be resourceful. Yeah local art. We're all online. We're also, it's very, it's a great time to commission art from your favorite local artists, because we have time during quarantine to really put a lot of love in it.

[00:36:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Perfect. Well, thank you. And again, thank you so much for joining us and for sharing about your art. And, I just really appreciate, like I said, everything that you bring to the world and I. Just want to say thank you to everyone. Also, who's listened to this episode and if it has left you as inspired as it has left to me, I would love if you would share with a friend and we will catch you next time.

[00:37:05] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:37:16] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you a little bit about one of my very favorite resources for artists. It's a website called Arteza. They have incredible products, but what makes this company really unique is that they have supplies that are affordable to creators with every budget. So whether you're just starting out, or dabbling, or you, or you do have that budget available to you, they do you have options for every budget level. They provide the tools, but you steer the way. Literally you can access hundreds of thousands of high quality, unique products through their website. And right now they are offering a promo code to receive 8% off of any purchase and you can access the link and the promo code in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome Jeremiah Kauffman! He is a Kansas City playwright and producer, and shares his artistic journey to being brave enough to share his art with the world, as well as the value of other people's input on your work, and advice for young and aspiring artists. 

Get in touch with Jeremiah Kauffman: [email protected] 

Arteza: Arteza makes art supplies affordable to creators with every budget. Art is about the journey. They provide the tools – you steer the way. Click here and use promo code PB8PROMO for 8% off your entire order!

Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | [email protected]

Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview

Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 009 - Jeremiah Kauffman

Lindsey Dinneen:  Hello. Welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am very excited today to have, as my guest, Jeremiah Kauffman. He is a writer and playwright currently based out of Kansas City, but I am delighted to hear a little bit about his story and what inspires him. And so thank you so much, Jeremiah, for being here today.

[00:00:32]Jeremiah Kauffman: You're welcome. Thank you for inviting me.

[00:00:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Well, I would love if you would share with our audience just a little bit about who you are as an artist, as a person, and/or even maybe how you got into what you do.

[00:00:47]Jeremiah Kauffman: I live here in Kansas City and, my day job, I teach deaf children, but I I've been writing from for just years. And, most of my writing, I'm trying to express ideas, and I think it's important for people to, to experience and hopefully internalize. So, I teach during the day, but summer, but evenings and summers, weekends, I'm writing. I've written a number of plays, one of--what--actually written about six plays, one of which has been produced last summer, and I'm currently producing another play, which is scheduled to be performed in July, but right now, of course, everything is really iffy. It may turn out to be a strictly online production, but we'll see. I live with five cats and, and, I just try to express myself through my writing. Yeah, so a little bit about me.

[00:01:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, what got you into writing in the first place? What kind of jump-started that?

[00:01:48]Jeremiah Kauffman: Books probably, my family. So I have a poet, I mean, excuse me. I have an aunt who is a poet and she was kind of famous in her day. Her name was Elsie Melchert Fowler. So I knew I had that background, and my grandfather was an avid book collector, and so I was always surrounded by books. And so he was--when I was, when I was a toddler, when I was little, he was always reading to me. And, so I developed a love of reading. And so, I decided probably early on when I was in college that I wanted to be a writer. And, so I will go to the library to do my homework and end up just reading books and then regretting it later.

[00:02:28] But, so I was always enthralled by books, always enthralled by writing. And, so I have sort of a literary artistic background. I have an uncle who's an artist--a great, great uncle--who's a noted artist. And so I think it was a combination of my background and my grandparents sort of fostering a love of reading and writing and books . Yeah. And then the need to tell a story. I've always needed to tell stories and I wanted to get stories out. And also inspired by other artists, such as my, as I said, my aunt and my uncle and, Vincent van Gogh is another example. So it's a combination of just my upbringing, my surroundings, and the influence of other artists.

[00:03:21]It's kind of hard to pin down, because I grew up surrounded by art, but I guess I mentioned Vincent van Gogh. My grandmother loved him, and so I was exposed to his art pretty early on. And my mother hated him and said that he was crazy. And I thought, well, here's this dichotomy. There's just this, this contrast here. And it, my grandmother just loves him and my mother can't stand him. And so that intrigued me as a kid. I'm like, how could this be? How could somebody elicit such strong reaction?

[00:03:55] Such strong contrast and reactions from two different people. And my grandmother and my mother had very personnel, different personalities. My mother was, my mother was kind of distant. She had a difficult time expressing love, and my grandmother was the opposite. She was very warm and very embracing. And, the interesting thing about that is--van Gogh, his mother was very distant, and cold also. And, but, he loved very deeply. And I think that's kind of where my grandmother and van Gogh kind of connected. They both loved very deeply. And it was just a very intriguing story that just got me really interested in art because his art was very moving and he, and he used art to communicate in the way I use writing to communicate. And so, but that's just one little story from my background that got me, I suppose thinking about art at a deeper level than just saying, "Oh, there's a pretty picture." But understanding who the artist was and what went into it and why they painted that and why one person loves it and another person can't stand it and so forth.

[00:05:08]Lindsey Dinneen: In fact, it's so much richer if you learn what's behind it and, and I, I love that you had that moment of realizing that your mom and your grandma had such different opinions on the same person. And why, why was that? That's, that's really neat.

[00:05:28]Jeremiah Kauffman: Yeah. And actually, if you don't mind my interrupting you-- van Gogh, one of the things that he always wanted to know, just as much as the painting itself, if you want to know who painted it and what they were like. And so who created the painting was just as interesting and as important as the painting itself.

[00:05:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Sort of with van Gogh, and then you mentioned that there were other--you know, artist was really in your blood--your family, so deeply artistic and creative. Were there other people that inspired you or encouraged you along your writing journey?

[00:06:05]Jeremiah Kauffman: Well, there's a whole host of writers I've always enjoyed reading, some of whom--so like in terms of like literary inspiration, in terms of other novelists and storytellers-- I found a lot of inspiration from Mark Twain, Henry James, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, André Gide, and, it's just, it's a really long list.  Yeah, I was inspired by a lot of 'em, of literary writers, artists. Also what kind of inspired--I thought it was awesome that my grandfather's uncle, his name is, his name is Ernest Melchert. We called him Uncle Ern and he was an etchist. He did dry point etching prints. And, I just thought it was amazing that this man had so much out there and he, he had a day job too.

[00:06:55] He worked for a paper company, and in Chicago and, but he was constantly producing art. I mean, it, it was an obsession with him almost. And so he has art in, you know, the Art Institute in Chicago and the Library of Congress and the Smithsonian in their collections, and I thought that was very inspiring.  So I thought this man, he put his heart into this and he worked really hard and he was able to share it with other people and that was inspiring. And it isn't like, I don't have to just sit in my room and just scribble some stuff out and no one ever sees it again. Never never sees that.

[00:07:33]I thought if I work really hard, people can experience my art. And so he actually, sort of inspired me to actually keep working in and, and make the effort to share it with other people. José Faus is a, an artist here in Kansas City and a writer, and he encouraged me to keep writing and sharing my writing. And Eve Ott is a local area writer and she encouraged me to, to write and share. Both of them are very successful writers, and Sharon Eicher is another local writer and jazz singer, and she also encouraged me. So there's a number of local writers who sort of mentored me, especially Eve Ott. I consider her one of my closest and most endearing mentors. So once you're interested in or something, you know, get a, find a local mentor who can continue to encourage you and work with you.

[00:08:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Having, having the support of local artist who maybe are a little further into their career. And who can help guide and direct and make good suggestions. That's really important and helpful. Yeah. That's great that you have that here. So when you first produced, which was last summer, how was that? I mean, did that feel really good? Was it scary? Was it, you know, what were the emotions that you went through when you actually did put your work out there into a play for the first time that other people would be able to go and see.

[00:09:14]Jeremiah Kauffman: I experienced a whole range of emotion from terror, fear, doubt, self doubt, to excitement, hope. You know, I guess, the fear of, you know, will this work out, you know, or will it be a failure? Which you know, was constantly, constantly trying to be down with the, excitement that someone's actually going to see something and experience something that I've, I've written and hopefully move them.

[00:09:42] So when I did this, I didn't want to just entertain. I wanted to move the audience. I wanted to change-- basically change their perspective, maybe even their lives. So it was just a constant tug of war between my fears and my hopes and aspirations and ultimately most of the time I was very happy, hopeful, but it was also stressful because, you know, I was also directing and producing. And so, there's the stress of the business end of it. Then there's the stress of the directing end of it. But in the end, I think it worked out, but it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of work. You can't give up. You can't, you can't say to yourself, "I can't do this," because once you say that it's a slippery--start saying that, it's a slippery slope.

[00:10:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. When you finished the project, did you feel that you came out with more confidence to be able to do it again?

[00:10:43]Jeremiah Kauffman: Yeah, that's why I'm doing it again because I did. I developed some confidence, and confidence can come. You know, you can see your product, your play and say, "Wow. That was great!" But it always helps to have another set of eyes, which is what an audience is, and so, some of that confidence also comes from when people say, "You know, I liked what you did. I think you should do something else."

[00:11:07] I mean, do something in addition. So, so yeah, I came out more confident partially because I got to see what I had written performed. And then also, because other people encouraged me--audience members, festival coordinators, directors, other critics. So, and if you don't put yourself out there, you won't have the opportunity to get feedback from anybody. Feedback is sometimes negative. But it's also positive. And so if you don't put yourself out there, you'll never get that positive feedback. Be scared and just try it because you might be surprised at how well it comes out, or you might be surprised at how-- even if it doesn't come out the way you want to-- there'll be somebody there who says, "Try again."

[00:11:57]Lindsey Dinneen: Right, and having that feedback is so valuable so that you can go back and make changes. So that the next time you produce it, it gets just a little bit better every single time.

[00:12:07] Jeremiah Kauffman: And if I could jump in, I'd say that when a critic evaluates work and it's not always positive, don't take that personally. A professional critic will be very professional and they'll say, this is what went well, this is what didn't go well; what needs to be, what needs to be modified or changed or develop further and take that seriously. Most critics aren't going to be hateful. So that's why you want to put yourself out there. So you can have people, both audience members and critics, give you some feedback. I think even if it's not positive, that should give you the motivation. It gives me the motivation to try again, and see if I can do a better job the second time around.

[00:12:52]Lindsey Dinneen: It's easier to take things to heart than it is to pick it apart a little bit and go, okay, this is the feedback that's really valuable to me, and not to get discouraged by somebody who doesn't quite understand what you're going for. But what's great about even that is then you get to find out what didn't translate very well to the audience. And that's invaluable for you to know. I mean, that was something that happened for me early on is learning that there were aspects of what I was producing that people just didn't understand. And so I had to really make sure that I was communicating that much more effectively. So it is helpful. So what advice would you have for somebody who's maybe just starting out or really nervous about taking, say something that they've been doing by themselves for themselves primarily, and putting it out in the world for the first time?

[00:13:55]Jeremiah Kauffman: Well, choose something that is meaningful to you and you're passionate about. 'Cause so, so we write lots of stuff as writers, and sometimes we're passionate about it. And sometimes it's just an exercise, but one, select something that you're passionate about and then have other people read it. And just be brave and just have other people read it or have them read a variety of things that their passion that you're passionate about.

[00:14:19] And, then the one that seems to really engage people, really hook them. I, by the way, have stage fright. And I, I don't like public speaking and it scares the heck out of me. But then take the next step after you have, colleagues or friends or family read your work, then do a public reading and there's lots of places where you can do public readings. Here in Kansas City, we have something called The Writer's Place.  And you can go to these events at these, or bookstores or jazz clubs or whatever, but  you have readings, so read it and that does two things. One, it gets you used to performing in front of a group or having your work performed and it also allows you to receive feedback. The other thing I suggest is that you, when you're writing something you're really passionate about, hire someone or find some way to do a cover for it.

[00:15:10] And so, whether it's a short story or a play or a novel, find somebody who can do what would ultimately be a book cover or a promotional cover for your writing. Each of my plays, I've done a cover. I've, I have a graphic artist that I've used. His name is Josiah Scott. He's also my editor and he just comes up with these wonderful covers. What's important about that is, when you see the cover of your story or your play, or maybe even a performance piece, suddenly it comes alive. It's like, wow, this is real. This is, this is it. I'm naturally doing this, and it can inspire you to keep working on it and developing it.

[00:15:52] And then I would also suggest getting involved in, or I should joining, different organizations, writing organizations and finding out who the publishers are and what they're seeking, and don't ever submit something to a publisher that doesn't match what they're looking for. So if it says, we're looking for stories with female characters from diverse cultural backgrounds, or we're looking for stories on LGBTQ characters, or or we're looking for fan fiction for kids, don't send them something that doesn't fit that category. But instead focus on whatever your category is, focus on those publishers, and send it.

[00:16:41] And you will be rejected multiple times, but just keep sending and sending and sending and sending and sending, and follow the directions. If they say what size font to use, use that font. It's kind of like grant writing. I've done grant writing in my job. And when the grant writer said, this is the format you should be following, this is the topic, this is the size of your font. Do it. Yeah, you're going to get rejection, but just keep doing it because ultimately you won't be rejected. But if you get rejected and you say, I can't do it well, then, you know, you'll end up--well, that'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[00:17:19] You know, I don't know how many times, J.K. Rowling submitted "Harry Potter." It was rejected repeatedly, but she kept doing it, and her story isn't unique. It's just, that's just the way it is. So I suppose, that's some advice. I guess the last piece of advice is just write about what your passions are. Whatever about what you're passionate about, write about what you feel deeply about, because that's where your energy will come from and that's what will produce your best work.

[00:17:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Great advice. Thank you.

[00:17:49]Jeremiah Kauffman: You're welcome. I hope so.

[00:17:54] Lindsey Dinneen: So I just have a couple questions that I like to ask my guests if that's okay with you. Okay. So how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:18:09]Jeremiah Kauffman: Wow. I've never been asked that question before, but what is art? I guess art is any creative process to produce something that's meaningful to the artist and they want it to show up other people. And I don't really, I don't think there are any boundaries to what art is. There are no limitations. And if you produce a sculpture or a performance, choreographic performance, apart, whatever or painting. And someone says, ah, that's not art. If you say it's art, because the creative expression of what you're trying to share with others and it is art. So, I'm not one that looks at a particular, you know, like painting, you know, All right.

[00:18:52] So somebody paints hyper-realistic babies or, or kittens. And someone says, yeah, that's art because that's hyper-realistic. But the, the abstract painting that somebody did --that's not art. That is not true. The abstract painting is just as much art is the cute little kittens. It's just the art is the expression of creativity. That's all it is. I don't think we should pigeonhole art. Art's anything that illustrates emotion from both the artist and the viewer. It's something that entertains and teaches, and something that can be used to make our lives better. It can be something that improves our society or just makes us happy or just helps us feel better about ourselves or helps us, it gives us comfort when we need comfort or gives us inspiration when we need to be inspired, and if it affects and produces all range of emotions. And I think that if there's an emotional response, then that's also art. 

[00:20:03]Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:20:08] Jeremiah Kauffman: I can't speak for all artists, but for a lot of us, the role of an artist is to, to move people and to hopefully elicit, inspire some kind of change in others. Some kind of, so, all right, you know, it could be producing positive change in society. So the role of the artist might be, of some artists might be, let's take-- the, the novels that were written about the canneries and the meat packing plants. That was a form of art, but it was designed to move people to make change and make positive change in society. The role of the artist is to entertain. You know, the role of the artist is to help other people love more deeply, to feel more deeply, to elicit joy, to elicit critical thinking too. Encourage people to also become artists. See, if I'm writing and I don't inspire anyone else to write then what was, what's the point? You know, I hope that as a writer, I inspire other people to write. So an artist is also someone who, whose role is to encourage the continuation of art.

[00:21:27]Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. And I have one final question for you and that is, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And I'll define my terms there. So, inclusive meaning that when the artist creates their work, they do give some context behind it. So they might say what inspired it or what they were going through at the time. You just sort of know a little bit more of the background, versus exclusive being that the artist puts their work out there and just lets their viewers experience it and take what they will without having context.

[00:22:09]  Jeremiah Kauffman: I don't see anything wrong if someone wants to be inclusive; that's their choice. But I don't think it's required, because I think one of the awesome things, one of the really cool things about art, is that it's kind of fun and it's also, I think good for people to look at art and to critically look at it, not critical in whether good or bad, but critically evaluate it in a way that gets them thinking about what was the artist thinking. See, we want our minds to be active. We want our minds to be deeply engaged. And if we're looking at art and we don't have that background, it forces us to really look at it and think about it and ponder it and, and try to understand it. And it really does help develop a level of higher-order thinking skills.

[00:23:02] And in our society, we really need people with good, with very effective, higher-order, cognitive thinking skills and, and art can get us there. And I don't, so I don't think it needs to be, inclusive. Sure the backstory is great, but I also really don't mind, and enjoy looking at art and trying to just, you know, experience, whatever I feel at the moment and experience maybe what the artist wanted me to feel, but didn't, but didn't explicitly tell me. And in some sense, isn't it kind of like a spoiler, when they like a movie and they say, this is what happens at the end. Well, the artist says, well, this is what I'm trying to, it's kind of spoiled then, isn't it? You want to go through the same creative process or similar creative processes the artist went through.

[00:23:57] Lindsey Dinneen: I like that perspective. And I have not heard it put this way yet, but I really liked what you said about, by not having the context, we can go along in that creative journey with our viewers or, or with the artist. And so, yeah, I really appreciate that perspective. Thank you.

[00:24:16] Jeremiah Kauffman: Well, thank you. 'Cause I've never--that is really a new question for me. One of the things is, is a teacher I'm trying to teach my kids higher, higher-level thinking skills, higher-order thinking skills, and I think art can get us there.

[00:24:34] Lindsey Dinneen: I agree. Well, thank you so much again, Jeremiah, for sharing your perspective on art and, kind of, all of your inspiration and advice. I certainly appreciate it. I know our listeners do too. And is there a way for us to be able to connect with you if any of our listeners are interested in seeing one of your plays or, you know, learning more about, about what you do?

[00:25:02]Jeremiah Kauffman: I'm open to meeting with anybody, getting to know people. I'm an introvert, but when it comes to art, I tend to enjoy connecting with other people because art is such an important part of our culture, and it's a necessary part of our culture. It's a necessary part of the human experience. So you can email me. You have my email address, right?

[00:25:28] Lindsey Dinneen: I sure do.

[00:25:30]Jeremiah Kauffman:  I respond to all emails that I see.

[00:25:33]Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, well thank you again so much, Jeremiah, and thank you to all of you listeners who have listened to this episode. And if it has left you as inspired as it is, it has for me, I would love for you to share it with a friend or two, and we will catch you next time.

In this episode, I welcome Elizabeth Cooper! She shares her stories about teaching herself drawing and photography, and how art has helped shape her life even as a side hobby (for now!). She talks about what art teaches its participants, and that you don't have to do art perfectly in order to enjoy it. Special note: the ladybug photo for this episode's cover art is Elizabeth's own photography!

Get in touch with Elizabeth Cooper: https://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.campbell.756412

Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | [email protected]

Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview

Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 008 - Elizabeth Cooper

Lindsey Dinneen:   Hello! Welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Lindsey and I am delighted to have as my guest today, Elizabeth Cooper. She is a wonderful, wonderful person. I'm blessed to actually know her; we're related, she's my cousin, which is awesome. And we grew up very close together. So she is a fantastic person in general, but she is also an artist in her own right. And I'm excited just to listen to her stories and share her experiences with you all. So thank you for joining me, Elizabeth.

[00:01:04]Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah, thank you for having me. This is a new experience and I'm looking forward to it.

[00:01:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. So, first of all, just, do you mind just sharing a little bit about you and the different art forms that you've dabbled in and all that fun stuff?

[00:01:18]Elizabeth Cooper: Okay. So yeah, as you said, I'm Elizabeth. I'm Lindsey's cousin and, I live here in Virginia and, have kind of gone into art as I've gotten a little bit older. It was actually--it was fun watching Lindsey and Ashley dance and, my art story actually starts with Jason. He was kind of my, my-- I don't know what to call him! I always looked up to Jason and for everything, you know, we did everything together, growing up and...

[00:01:44] Lindsey Dinneen: So for--and I'm just going to interject real fast--so Jason is my older brother and Ashley's my younger sister. So, so yeah. So all of us cousins? No, no, you're fine. But for those who don't know all of us-- cousins, we, we spend a lot of time together growing up. So there's, there's your context. Back to you.

[00:02:00] Elizabeth Cooper: Yes we did. Yes. So yeah, I actually started drawing because of Jason. He started drawing mazes back--I don't even know how old we were. And, he started drawing mazes and of course I wanted to copy, you know, everything that he did. So, I started drawing mazes and that's kinda how it started. From there, I don't remember what he ended up doing if that's all he did. Well, he was always doodling something anyway. But, outside of doodling, I started drawing, just usually Lord of the Rings related. 'Cause I was obsessed with that when all and all that came out. So, I started drawing, like copying pictures of, you know, their swords or the crowns or the necklaces, you know, the jewelry, and that kind of stuff that they had.

[00:02:45]You know, I thought they were gorgeous pieces. That's art in and of itself, just the designs that they had. So I started just copying those. You know, I see a picture, I look at the picture and kind of freehand it. And, so then from there I started drawing houses, which I think also might have been adjacent thing. I think he had designed a house or something and something that we had talked about, you know, that it would be fun to design our own houses one day and build them and whatever. And so, so then I started drawing houses, like layouts for houses, just very basic ones, And, you know, all the different ways that you can do it in the different types of houses. So I had a lot of fun with that. And then, we have an uncle that is an artist and I used to look at all of his stuff and I'd talk to him sometimes and be like, all right, "Can you help me with this perspective?" Or, you know, "I want the shadows here," you know, whatever. And he kinda told me things here and there and helped me out.

[00:03:40]Usually what I think of in my head is not what comes out on the paper. So, you know, yeah--so that gets frustrating sometimes, you know. It can be easily like, all right, forget this, you know? And there's been many projects I've done that with--all right, this is not working, I'm done. I remember taking art in school, which is just the, you know, again, the beginning basics of art, but I just really enjoyed it. I enjoy being able to, to take nature or, people or, you know, whatever, and just be able to put it on paper. I haven't done a lot of drawing in the last several years.

[00:04:12]I do like to color, which is a totally different thing and kind of cheating because then somebody else does the art, but I guess there, I guess there's art in the colors and... But so, yeah, so it's been a little while since I've done a lot of like drawing stuff, but I pulled it all out the other day, for my best friend, who's getting ready to have a baby this summer. And, so I started drawing an alphabet book for her, which-- it's coming along very slowly. And, it's definitely kind of saying "Well, it's not quite what I had in my head," but some of the stuff has come out better or different.

[00:04:46] And it hasn't necessarily been a bad different, just different than what I was thinking. You know, that it would be, So, yeah, I, I've enjoyed drawing buildings. I've done some sketches of some old barns and some old buildings that I've either had the privilege of living next to, or of working by. And I really enjoyed that, the landscape, you know, drawing landscapes and stuff. And then with that, I guess that's kind of-- I wouldn't say that drawing got me into photography. I'm actually not sure. I'm pretty sure when I got into photography--I was trying to think about that-- when I started, I've always loved taking pictures as far as I can remember. You know, way back when we had like rolls of film that you had to put in your camera, you know, and hope that you got the shot, right?

[00:05:38]But, you know, on all the missions trips and stuff, I always love taking my camera and I would get rolls and rolls and rolls of pictures. And, so over the years that's kind of developed-- I've done a lot more photography than I have drawing, actually. But, I think my, my favorite thing to do --to take pictures of is, again, nature. I'm a huge outdoors person. I love to be outside. I could literally spend all day outside and, I am just awed by, by the beauty of nature. And, I love capturing it and you know, the colors and the detail of it. My favorite thing, in even within nature to photograph is just details. Like, I've been able to get some really good pictures of grasshoppers, like really up close, where you can see their eyes and, you know, or butterflies--you can see the details in their wings and, I think it's kind of a funny thing, but I think bug's eyes are very fascinating, if you've ever looked at a bug's eye.

[00:06:41]So I have a lot of pictures of, like, close-ups of bugs' eyes. Yeah, so, yeah, I just love the detail and how intricate it is. And I've done--I had the privilege of photographing Ashley's wedding--being one of the photographers for that. And, that was outside of what I normally do, but I had so much fun with that and was very grateful for, you know, for her trusting me to help with that. It's a big, that's a big thing. Right now, most of my pictures, I actually take on my phone, and I'm hoping eventually to actually get a good, working camera, and then be able to do more with it. Someday, my, my dream would be to be able to take a theme, be it, huh, bugs or, you know, or flowers, or even, you know, castles or old churches-- you know, something like that, but be able to go around and photograph all those things.

[00:07:40] And then, you know, make, make a book out of it. You know, be able to partner with somebody that can write and, you know, put together like a picture book. Just to be able to showcase, you know, all the, all the beautiful things that are, that we have in this world.

[00:07:56] Lindsey Dinneen: That'd be amazing.

[00:07:57]Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah. So that's kind of on the, that's on the bucket list. That's the, you know, a dream thing to do maybe someday.

[00:08:02]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you actually kind of have dabbled in creating products from your photography. Is that correct?

[00:08:12]Elizabeth Cooper: Yes. Yeah, I have, yeah, I've done stuff through Shutterfly, where I've been able to take the pictures that I've taken, and I make a calendar for my mom every year. And, I honestly, I'm trying to see what else I've done with it-- the calendars I've done. There's so much you can do pictures, you know, just plain, plain pictures, little gift things. I've always thought it would be neat to be able to take the pictures and do something with it, whether it's, you know, selling products with the pictures on it to raise money for, you know, a charity, or for a mission or something like that.

[00:08:43]I'd love to be able to, to share the pictures that I have, but then also do something, you know, do something good with it too. Not just, not just sell it, but like I said, do something good, some sort of charity or something that I can then help donate to.

[00:08:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, that would, that would be incredible. So for both photography and drawing, have you had any training, so to speak, in them? Or like, have you taken classes? Or is this you've just sort of learned as you go?

[00:09:10]Elizabeth Cooper: It's really been a lot of learning as I go. For drawing, the only thing that I, like, classes that I've had for that was what we took--goodness--a long time ago.

[00:09:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yeah.

[00:09:23] Elizabeth Cooper: When we did, when we did AMP. Yeah. And, so that was a while ago. Yup, yup. Again as kids. So that's actually the only, you know, the only lessons that I've had, as far as art goes. You know, I've looked stuff, I've looked stuff up online, like for this book that I'm doing now for my friend, you know, I'll look stuff up online. Okay. How do you draw, you know, kind of follow like the step by step instructions. And I have, I, over the years, I've bought all kinds of books on drawing, you know, how to do pencil drawings and nature drawings and, you know, stuff like that. Kind of, you know, detailed books on kind of the techniques of how to, but I've never actually taken like an art class like that, like a drawing class, which I think would be be a ton of fun to do. 'Cause I really do enjoy it. I enjoy drawing and yeah.

[00:10:16] And then for photography, no, I haven't taken anything for that. And I've talked to different people and again, I have books and stuff that I've purchased over the years that I've looked through 'em or different people that I've talked to, but nothing, you know, no official class or anything. Which, again, that would be something, I mean, I would love. I would love to take an official class. 'Cause I know, I know nothing compared to, you know, the things that you could, especially with these, you know, the cameras that you can get up. So many settings and stuff. There's so many cool things that you can do with them. So hopefully someday I'll be able to expand and kind of do more of that and, become better. Which is the beauty of, well, really any sort of art form, you know, you can always expand it and work on it and learn, learn new techniques and stuff to, you know, to to make it better or, or just different, not even better, just different.

[00:11:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah. New perspectives even, or, or different techniques or, or just, yeah. Yeah. I love that. So I know this is going to be probably a difficult question to answer, but do you have like a favorite photo you've ever taken? Something that like really stands out to you?

[00:11:26]Elizabeth Cooper: Hmm. That is a

[00:11:28] Lindsey Dinneen: I question.

[00:11:29] I know! Or like a couple, I mean, it doesn't have to be one, but I'm just curious if you were like, "Oh my goodness, I can't believe I captured this moment!" You know, or something like that.

[00:11:38] Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah. I do have a few like that. And the few that are, like some just, flowers that I've gotten, where like the lighting was just perfect. And so I do have a couple of flower pictures that, you know, that definitely rank up there as some of my favorite ones. And then, like I said, I have a lot of pictures of closeups of, you know, bees or butterflies or grasshoppers. And, those tend to be my favorite too. I really liked those, I guess. I don't know why it fascinates me so much. Just, I think, cause they're, they're different, and I dunno. But I do have some of those that, that would also probably rank up there as some of my favorites. I have a really good one, actually that I got recently of a, a lady bug on a leaf, and it's like this perfectly green leaf and a lady bug. And it's--the lady bug sticks out so nicely on the green leaf. The only problem is that it's not facing me. If it was facing me, it would be like the perfect picture.

[00:12:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh!

[00:12:35] Elizabeth Cooper: But, but it's, but it's still good. And I have said that I really, I really liked that one too. It turned out really well.

[00:12:40] Lindsey Dinneen: That's neat. Kind of a random question, but have you ever captured a bumblebee?

[00:12:45]Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah. I do have pictures of bumblebees! Now, they're not generally flying. but I do have some pictures of bumblebees.

[00:12:52] Lindsey Dinneen: They're really cute. We have this one that's been like hanging out with us every time we'll, you know, we have spent time outside for whatever reason. There are these two, like, enormous bumblebees that are like super fluffy and they just hang out and I've been trying to capture it. And I can't. So.

[00:13:10]Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah, well, there's one section of our fence that I think that they're in, that's kind of where they've made home. And so we have a bunch of these wood bees by our gate, actually. And, I've noticed this year, when I go to fill up the dog bowl outside, just, you know, the regular spigot, you know, off the house. A couple of times I've turned that on and a bee will fall out of there. So, I don't know why they're in there. It's kind of an odd thing, but then, you know, then their wings are wet, so then they can't fly. So I've actually been able to, you know--I'll usually find a leaf or something that I can pick them up and move them somewhere I know it's going to be safe, that they can dry out and then can go on their way. But because I've had them right there on that leaf, I've been able to get some good close-ups of them being right there. Last year I got a really good one of one clinging onto the fence. Yeah. So, so yeah, I do have a few.

[00:14:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, well, that's awesome. I was, I was thinking about this. It's just top of mind when you were talking about the bugs and I was thinking that just bumblebee, I mean, they they're hovering really close to us and, and they're just so cute. I mean, they're very fascinating. I've never seen a bumblebee or maybe it's, maybe it's a wood bee or whatever, but I've never seen one so close. And yeah. Anyway ...

[00:14:25] Elizabeth Cooper: They're not afraid. They just, yeah, it would be really neat to be able to capture one like mid air. You know, flying. That would be really cool. And I don't know, because I use my phone most of the time all the time. I don't, I don't know how easy that would be to do, but I would imagine with, you know, with a good camera. Then yeah, I'm sure that would, that would be something that could be captured.

[00:14:50] Lindsey Dinneen: So, thank you for sharing. That's, it's really, it's inspirational to me to know that, you know, sometimes you look at--well, we were talking about this actually before we started recording--is sometimes you look at it, an artist that's, you know, first of all, probably had years and years and years and years and years of experience, but also, you know, just this caliber where you think, "Oh my goodness. I mean, it's just amazing. And I could never do that." And, so I think it's really inspiring to hear that, you know, yeah, there's, there's maybe some forms of drawing or photography that you look at and you go, you know, that's, that's not me now, but I think it's amazing that you're, you know, you're creating art in a different way. I mean, you're creating what you are interested in creating, and it doesn't have to be like masterpiece quality from day one, and you're still trying, you know?

[00:15:44] Elizabeth Cooper: Right, right. Well, I think that you, you know, with, with art and any form of art, whether it's dance or whether it's photography or, you know, it really teaches you patience, and you know, the importance of, of trying to get, you know--you failed, doesn't look like how you want to do. Alright, let's try it again and try something different, you know? And it, you know, so it really, it helps teach you perseverance and patience and, yeah, the importance of, of like you're saying. Yeah, it doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, you know, that can be good enough.

[00:16:19] Yeah,

[00:16:20] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. I love that perspective. It's, there's value in the creation process and not just the final product, you know?

[00:16:27]Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's that's really good perspective. I like that a lot. Well, I have a couple questions for you if that's okay. So I like to just kind of, you know, hear different perspectives on these, these questions. So first, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:16:46]Elizabeth Cooper: So I never really, honestly, I never really thought about that before, but I think I would say, I would define art as a piece of, of work that, that someone is inspired by. Like someone sees something around them and they're inspired by it. And so they want to then recreate it in a way that means something to them. Does that make sense? So, I mean, I feel like art is, is, you know, it, it's a very personal thing. You know, everybody sees it differently. And so, yeah, I guess I would, I would just define art as anything that, that is inspired by the things around you, that then you create something from that inspiration.

[00:17:36] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's perfect. Okay. What do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:17:43]Elizabeth Cooper: I would say being true to yourself and your passion. A lot of art is--it's interpretation of what, what you see around you and what inspires you. So, you know, I would say that it's really being, being yourself and letting yourself and what you see, shine through.

[00:18:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So being true to--yeah, being true to yourself as you, as you create. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:18:16] Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah.

[00:18:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. And then the, final question I have-- I'll define it a little bit further than the question itself, but, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And kind of where I'm going with that thought is, so with exclusive, it's kind of an artists creates something, kind of puts it out in the world and doesn't provide any context behind it. So it's completely up to the viewer or participant or whatever, to kind of draw their own conclusions. Versus inclusive, meaning that, you know, you have--they provide some context to their work, so maybe it's a description or what inspired it, or what was going on in their head. You know, like just having a little bit more context as far as what the artist's intention was.

[00:19:04]Elizabeth Cooper: I think I'm actually, I'm actually torn on that. Because I, because art does tend to be such a personal thing, I feel like there's, there's place for both. You know, if I, as the artist, draw something very specific and I have a story that goes with it, and that's what I want to portray, then it might be important to have some sort of, of background out there to know kind of what's going on in the picture. So that way, when the person is looking at that piece of art or looking at that piece of photography or whatever, then they, they know what I, as the artist, am seeing and thinking.

[00:19:42] But then I think there's also a place for--okay, here, I'm going to make this masterpiece and this is what it means to me personally, but here you look at it and what is, you know, what do you think it means? Okay. Or what do you want it to be to you? So I feel like there's really place for, for both. Yeah. I don't know that I would say that, you know, one or the other is, is better. I think it really depends on the piece and the artist's intention behind it. So, I mean, I know for me sometimes when it comes to like some of the dance stuff that, you know--like we've gone to watch you and you and Ashley do. But it's nice, it's nice to have a little bit of the background to know, Oh, okay. This is what's going on. You know, like in the, you know, for this dance, this is what this is supposed to mean, or whatever. But then that's not always, you know, it's not always necessary. So I really do think that it depends on, on what the art form is and, and, what the intention is behind it.

[00:20:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. That's a great answer. Well, thank you so very much for joining me today. I really appreciate you taking the time to do so. And, you know, I--again, I have some context here that maybe some of our listeners don't, but I have seen some of Elizabeth's drawings and her photography and she is a beautiful artist, doing....

[00:20:59] Elizabeth Cooper: Aww, thank you.

[00:21:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Really, truly, I really love what you do. I think it's really fun. And, I like your different perspectives, especially with your photography. I've really, yeah. I like that-- like you were talking about the details and I thought, "Oh yeah, that is something that you just have really honed in on." And that's, that's neat! That, that gives you something that's a little different than just like a general shot, you know?

[00:21:21]So I just want to say thank you for creating art. I think that in general, when you are willing to, kind of, create and share, I think that just brings more beauty and inspiration to the world. So thank you. And, yeah, actually I've, I've been the recipient of some of the artwork, so, or the artwork products, I guess. So I, I'm super happy about it too. Biased, but no, I really there's a lot of value to that. And thank you for sharing your insights just about, yeah, your creation process and sort of what kind of, what inspired that journey. That's, that's really cool. So, I appreciate it.

[00:22:00]Well, that wraps up that and thank you so much to everyone who is listening to this. And if it particularly inspired you, if you wouldn't mind sharing it with a friend and, and keep making the world a beautiful place!

In this episode, I welcome Erin Paige! Erin is a speaker, author, and healing artist. She is the brilliant artist behind Love Tiles, where she paints hearts with loving-kindness, Reiki, and positive energy infused into each tile. She is an amazingly generous and positive woman, who share about the impact art can make without the artist even knowing. 

Get in touch with Erin Paige: https://www.erinpaige.com/ | https://www.youtube.com/user/ErinsPaige

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Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod

Episode 007 - Erin Paige

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part in to the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as, as so beautiful.

[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello! Welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. My name is Lindsey and I am so delighted to have as my guest today, the absolutely wonderful Erin Paige.

[00:00:44] She is a fantastically uplifting human being, just so full of grace and kindness and empathy towards the world. So she is a coach. She is an author. She has her own journal that I've actually had the privilege to go through, and it's just incredibly uplifting and inspiring. And she is also an artist. She paints and has a few different avenues for her art. And I'm just so excited to be able to talk with her today and share her with you, because I know you're just going to get so much from her. So thank you so much, Erin, for being here. I am so excited to have you.

[00:01:27]Erin Paige: Oh, well, what a great intro. Thank you so much, Lindsey, for having me today. I'm just as thrilled to be with you, as you say you are with me. So this will be a wonderful moment in time and space to be creative together. I'm so excited. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course! And I would just love to hear a little bit more about you and about, you know, what you do and in your art, if you don't mind just kind of sharing a little bit about that.

[00:01:56]Erin Paige: Well, of course I would love to share. Well, let me just start out by saying, and I believe that if you are an artist listening to this, that you probably can relate as well, that I was born an artist. So, I grew up in a creative family. I was fortunate enough to have a mother that was, and still is, extremely creative, more on the abstract side. And my father, bless his soul--he was a mechanical engineer. And of course, when you hear about an engineer, you think very analytical and that was true with his artwork. He was creative, but more in the realistic, realistic realm.

[00:02:36]So he could draw a portrait of anyone and it would look just like them. So I had a nice balance with that and we were creative as a family and they really enhanced that for myself and for my sister, whether it was through artwork or through singing. I love to sing as well, but as I moved on throughout my adult life, I started painting hearts and getting back into the painting side of things. I had a jewelry business. I was creative through that, but if I can get a little personal here--and I think that this can be relatable to a lot of people--that I realized that I was starting to paint hearts because where I was in at that time in my life. I was not being fulfilled in the love area, if you will.

[00:03:29] My heart was really aching for someone to appreciate me for me. So I continued with these hearts and realized that it was almost like a healing journey, if you will. So the hearts evolved. I started speaking a lot more. I wrote the book and journal that I have that you mentioned, and it has hearts on it. And it really--that moment in time where I was needing to be fed. I realized that I could turn that moment into feeding others with positivity, with grace, with love and the feedback that I was getting from people when they would see my artwork. I would literally, Lindsey, I would have people stop, as they were walking by not paying attention, but then stop and then turn towards--let's say I was at an art fair--and they would stop and look and go, "I don't know. There's something about your artwork that makes me feel better."

[00:04:34] And it was really quite powerful. And I think when you hear that enough times, you realize that you are really living in a present moment and you are gifting the world with your gifts. And I think a lot of artists--that's exactly what they are doing, and they are gifting their unique gift through the arts, whether it's dance, singing, or in my case, painting hearts. So I take what I do very, very seriously. So when I'm writing or with whether I am getting ready to work with people, you know, in a workshop that is still very heart-centered, I make sure that I'm in a very positive place.

[00:05:18] If I am in that creative state, and I feel like my energy is down. I will get up and go on a walk, for instance, or I'll meditate or I'll pray just to make sure that what I am infusing into the artwork is pure positivity, pure love. I really like to say that I create and love and I give and love. So, you know, I really take that to heart. And I've got a couple examples, if I could share, one of the things that I create are love tiles and they're original. They're on four by four tiles and I paint hearts and I paint dots around them. So the, what I call like the energy, is radiating out and the loves radiating out to people.

[00:06:01] And it comes in a gift bag with an easel and my inspirational card. I call it my wallet card so people can keep it in their wallet and be inspired whenever they need to be. I had a client of mine purchased two heart tiles and she gifted them to her grandchildren. And they're young and she called me and she said, "I have to tell you about how I presented these heart tiles that I purchased from you to my grandchildren."

[00:06:30] She shared it with me and it was so precious and I just felt so overwhelmed with joy that what I was putting into the love tiles was being received by these young children. And she explained to them that it was created by a real artist--is what she said--a real artist created in love, and that these tiles, no matter where her grandchildren, children would be that she as a grandmother, she was gifting this piece of artwork to them to carry with them wherever they go. And she would always be there with them. And she said, "I just wanted to share that you are gifting your light into this world and your loved tiles are doing that."

[00:07:19] And I just couldn't appreciate that comment more than I. I just had no words for it. I got a little teary-eyed, and I know there's a lot of creatives out there that are wondering if their creative talents are being received. And I'm here to tell you that they are, if there's any doubt-- well, just don't have any doubt that when you are living on purpose, you are doing good. You are being of service to others in the world, whether someone verbally tells you or not.

[00:07:51] So the second part of this is just a few days ago. Well, yeah, it was just a few days ago that same person called me and she said, "You know, Mother's Day is coming up"--at the time that we're recording this, Mother's Day is right around the corner. And so she called and she said, "My grandkids decided to do something special for their mom." And they did like a spa day, if you will. And her son recorded this moment and the mom is laying there with her arms out to the side and she's got like a mud mask on and her little--I think it might be a six-year-old--a little granddaughter was doing a guided meditation for her mother.

[00:08:33] This is the part where, like, tears welled up in my eyes of joy. She said, "Erin, I have to tell you what's part of this recording is so precious. She is using your love tile as part of her guided meditation for her mom, like she's doing this guided meditation and she's holding your love title, Erin." And it just humbled me so much that God has given me this gift to be able to infuse this divine liquid love. I love to call it divine liquid love that we have flowing within us, and it loves us more than anything in the whole entire. It's inconceivable how much this divine, liquid love, God-love, cares for us. And I felt so honored that I have been gifted this creative side to be able to give to others. And for those that are creative out there, know that that divine liquid love that flows within them is gifting this universe with that divine love.

[00:09:36] And they should never, never, ever doubt it. And to those out there, your listeners that are not, you know, on the creative side, just know that when you see a work of art, whether you agree with it or not, know that it is coming from a place of love. It truly, truly is coming from a place of love. And if nothing else, just respect that there was a time, and--I guess I'm moving into a moment where, you know, I'd love to just reiterate the value of the arts whether it's dance, voice, poetry, writing, anything that is creative is so valuable. I was commissioned to do a work of art for the designer, the Symphony Designer Show House here in Kansas City a few years back.

[00:10:30] And I put so much of my personal love, that divine liquid love went into it. It took several days to create the work of art. And I have to tell you, Lindsey, as soon as I finished it, like, I wish I did--I didn't literally do this, but I could have slept for three days because I gave so much of my soul. I know that you can relate with the work that you do, and the shows that you put together, so much of who you are and your soul into it, that, you know, when an when an artist performs, or if you pay a certain ticket price or you decide to buy a work of art, know that there is great value in what you are purchasing.

[00:11:17] And it goes beyond just the ticket price that it will serve you beyond that. So, those are, that's how I go about my artwork and how I go about my life anymore. And I just hope that this message reaches, even if it just reaches one person, one artist or non-artist that feels compelled to dive deeper into their artistic side. Then I'm living on purpose and I'm honored to be here with you today.

[00:11:45] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. I love that you brought up the fact that you don't know who you're impacting through your art and it can even be something where, whether you consider yourself to be an artist or not--which I, as a little aside, I think that everyone is an artist in their own right. But whether you consider yourself to be one or not, you still have something to contribute to, to help make the world more beautiful.

[00:12:10] Erin Paige: I couldn't agree more. And you are absolutely on point when you say that really everyone's an artist. And I just think that everyone has a unique gift that they come into this lifetime with. And you know, it's not a gift unless you share it. I'll just be sharing it all the time, whether it's just a smile to a stranger, you never know how much they might need that. I mean, in that, you know, a smile is a form of art. I really think that. Right?

[00:12:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I agree. So from talking to you previously, I know that there was another story that you told me that I, I just think would be awesome for our listeners to hear, if you're okay with sharing it. But it was about the little art installation you did for, was it a hospital or a doctor's office? And kind of the result of that?

[00:13:01] Erin Paige: Oh yes. Okay. So I gifted several pieces or several works of art to Menorah Medical Center here in the Kansas City area, and they were installed in the cardiac department because, of course, I paint hearts. So, you know, cardiac department and my hearts--they were a good fit and they had these blank walls and they just needed life. And so I said, you know, we had talked about this and that. And you know, my heart just told me that I needed to gift them a few pieces of artwork. So I installed 10 pieces of artwork, and down this hallway that was once just white walls and several of the employees they walked by and they said, "Are you the artist.?"

[00:13:57] And I said, "Yes, I am!" And they said, "Oh, thank you so much for making our walk into work more joyful. We just love coming into work now and walking down the small section of the hallway, even if it's just a small section of the hallway, we are so appreciative of your artwork and it makes us just enjoy being in this place." And that warms my heart again. That was a moment where, I guess, honestly, I really didn't think--I kept thinking about, like, the cardiac patients and their families. I wasn't even thinking about the employees. I wasn't even thinking about beyond the walls of the box that I had built, that I was just going to, you know, bring joy to the heart patients because the artwork is actually right outside one of the physical therapy rooms. And that's one of the reasons why we chose that space. So when patients would leave therapy, they would see these hearts and--it goes back to what you say--you said earlier that you just never know who you're impacting. And I just never really thought about the ripple effect; that it wasn't just about the patients and their families.

[00:15:17] It was about the employees. It was about the doctors and the nurses or anyone that was walking through, visiting the hospital, maybe, you know? Who knows? I have these visions and I do hope that this has happened. I have these visions of maybe like visitors getting lost. I mean, hospitals, they--you can get easily lost in a hospital, right? Because of the different hallways and departments and you get off the wrong floor. And it's my hope that maybe someone, you know, took a wrong turn and they happen to go down this hallway and they see my artwork and maybe it's brought them a little peace and some love today. So yes, that's the story. Thank you for reminding me.

[00:15:57] Lindsey Dinneen: I just love that story. Yeah, that is really special. And, yeah, isn't that so interesting, because again, your original vision for--it was maybe one thing, but it actually touched, like you said, the ripple effect it, it has touched so many more lives even in than what you expected and that's, that's so cool.

[00:16:15] Erin Paige: I'll take that. It is cool. I mean, it just--I'm smiling ear to ear to think that, you know, maybe a little work of art could change somebody's--the trajectory of someone's day can change. You know, turn their smile or frown upside down into a smile. So, yeah. Yeah, I am proud of that. And I'm honored to do that for people.

[00:16:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, and I'm curious, if you don't mind sharing just a little bit about sort of your process in writing your guided journal, because I think that that's a pretty unique work of art in and of itself. And I'm just curious: is there like, a backstory or how did you come to create that?

[00:16:56]Erin Paige: Well, there is a story with that. So my journal is called, "I Release You to Become Who You Came Here to Be." It's a little bit long, longer title, but I just couldn't see any other way to title it, except for that. So the backstory behind it is, I am a mother of an adult now. It's hard to, hard to say that, but, he just turned 18. But for four years, when he was younger, I would text him what I called mom-isms.

[00:17:26] And they were really just divine downloads, I called them, about life. I'd be driving or I'd be doing something and I would have this message come to me about life. And so I would text my son. In fact, I have it right... I have my journal right here. Let's just say it ended up the journal is 18, what I like to call, notes to self, which started out as mom-isms and--Oh, this is a good one. So number two is: take responsibility for how comfortable you are. So really getting out of that comfort zone. And so if you can imagine me typing this out on a text message, and then I would put a heart, and then I would put "mom-ism." So the interesting thing is if you, if anyone else out there has kids, you know, that most likely you probably aren't going to get on something like this from your mother.

[00:18:23] Probably won't get a response, but I will say this, that I knew, again, it goes back to who you are impacting, who you are influencing. I kept sending those mom-isms. I kept taking what I was doing and looking at what I was doing and making sure that I was a positive impact in my son's life. And even if I was doing something, you know, we all have moments where we're probably not the most proud of, or if, you know, taking those moments and turning them around and going...okay. How can I become a better person by learning from this, and this not-so-good moment, turning it into seeing something good.

[00:19:09] And then that teaches everyone around us. They see that shift in us. So, I've been sending all these mom-ism and then out of the blue, I sent him, what is actually number three out of 18: when you feel good, you could go out and do good. And he replied and he goes, "That's a good one." And you know, out of all of them--yes, my journal book only has 18, but I have a lot more--so out of all of them that I was sending, he finally returned one message that, you know what, I'm making a difference in his life and this response is all I need, as validation, I suppose.

[00:19:52] So, that's the meaning behind, "I Release You to Become Who You Came Here to Be," and it's a working journal. So there's the statements, about what's written, so each one--there's the mom-ism or the, or the note to self, then there's a description or, you know, kind of my take on it. And then the flip the page, and there was an opportunity, some thought provoking questions for you to be able to answer. So that's the story behind the book journal. It all comes from being a mama.

[00:20:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Well, thank you for sharing. I know I kind of put you on the spot there, but I was very curious.

[00:20:30] Erin Paige: I love sharing those moments because I call him my grandest gift. He has been my grandest teacher, and he's real direct with me anymore. He's an adult now, ladies and gentlemen. Sometimes we don't want to hear what, you know, the truth. You know what? Oh my goodness, I just had no idea that, you know, your perception is a lot different than mine and it was good feedback. So, yeah. That's why I call him my grandest gift because he helps expand my soul every day. And I'm grateful for that.

[00:21:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that.

[00:21:05]Erin Paige: You assisted me and I'll talk about--if I could just a second, switch it to you a minute--you gifted me with a really great story. Part of when you participated in my GLAAL project. Oh my gosh. and I'd love to share a little bit about that because I think that that's just a continuation of not only the artistic side of me, but the side of me that really, and truly hopes that I leave a small little prints on this world when I leave it, when my time is up here, but GLAAL is "Go Live An Amazing Life." And that was just another message, if you will, where I was having my pity party. Okay, you know, we all have them. I always say that it's--everyone has the right to their pity party. It's how long you stay at the party that matters. One day I was having a little bit of a pity party, and I allow myself 24 hours. Now, you know, it used to be like months, if not years, where parties--I would get stuck in them and wallow in them. And you know, so typically what happens is, I crawl, you know, those moments where you want to crawl back in bed. And I'm like, man, I'm not going to talk to the world today. And then I go, wait a minute. This is so silly. Do you live an amazing life, Erin? I have an amazing son. I have amazing friends like you and so many others out there. And do you have a unique gift to share with the world today?

[00:22:45] Yes. Okay. I'll get out of bed and I'll just, you know, I'll turn my frown upside down. So I thought about it and I was like, gosh, I do live an amazing life. I'm surrounded in love and that is a gift in itself. And so I thought, well, there's other people out there that are living amazing lives and they're choosing to see the good, even in the not-so-good.

[00:23:09] I would love to hear their stories. So that's how my GLAAL project started. So I interview people. Basically, I asked them to share a GLAAL story, where they took, you know, maybe it's a moment where it was not so good and they turned it into a good moment. Maybe it's a time where, you know, love really came through and powered through for them. And you participated in this project!

[00:23:37]And it was, oh my goodness. You just, you gifted me that day. I thought about that for so long--how you too, through everything that you do are, you are impacting the world and you had shared about, you know, a couple people coming to you and, and expressing how much they appreciate you and what, and the light that you're shining out there.

[00:24:01] And, we're all in this together. I mean, you know, we're all sharing similar experiences and we should all just be sharing, sharing, sharing, sharing the unique light that you are. So that's my GLAAL project and it's really taking off and I just can't wait to hear other people's stories because I am completely blessed every time I listened to one. And so I'm just going to say one more time, thank you, thank you. Thank you for participating in my project and being a part of it.

[00:24:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, of course. No, it was absolutely my honor and joy to be a part of it, but I would highly encourage everyone to check out her GLAAL project because it is truly inspiring. And when you need an uplift, hearing the stories is just--it's so incredible to hear how people are taking difficult situations and transforming them into beautiful things. Or sometimes it's just, you know, talking about little ways that you can make a difference and it's all really inspiring. And so actually, as a result of that, Erin, where can we connect with you and see these, see your artwork and hear these stories and all that?

[00:25:14] Erin Paige: Oh, absolutely. I would love for your audience to check it out. My website is Erin Paige, P A I G E. It's my first and middle name, erinpaige.com. And my blog is where you can see all of the GLAAL stories, and then I do have my love tiles and a journal and all of that in my products and shop, yeah, shopping sections. So that's where you can reach me. I also have a YouTube channel, which is just, if you look up Erin Paige, I'll pop up.

[00:25:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Thank you. You definitely want to check out what she does and her work because it is really beautiful and inspiring. But Erin, I have a couple questions, if that's okay, that I like to ask my guests, if that works for you.

[00:26:01]Erin Paige: Of course!

[00:26:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay! So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:26:08] Erin Paige: Art to me is an expression of the soul. And I think that that just comes in many forms, whether it's a street performer that feels the need--even a little kid that is dancing to some music, I consider that art.  So really anything that you're inspired to do that your soul is telling you to do? That's how I see art.

[00:26:39]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that very much. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:26:44] Erin Paige: To be authentic. I think it's vital as an artist to be as true to yourself as you possibly can. To be as authentic--oh, I just got covered in goosebumps-- that's, that's how I know I'm speaking from my authentic self, I always tell people. Yeah, just to be as authentic as possible, and that serves others. If you're not showing up in your most soulful or authentic self, you are denying those of us that are looking at your art, watching your art, listening to your art--you're denying us that divine gift. So please, please, please. think it's vital for artists to be responsible in their artwork by being as authentic as possible. And that's, that's what I have to say about that.

[00:27:40] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. Thank you. Okay. And then my final question, and I'll explain my terms a little bit, but: do you think art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is exclusive meaning that an artist puts something out there and you don't necessarily know what inspired it, what the intention for it is, or the context is just sort of like, here's my piece, and here it is for the world. And then it's kind of up to the world to interpret. Versus inclusive, meaning that the artist does share a little bit about what they've created. Maybe, the feeling that prompted it, or even just like a title or just some context to kind of help the audience, just know a little bit more about where the artist is coming from.

[00:28:31] Erin Paige: Well, my answer to that is...I think it depends. I think it depends on the audience. I think, I think there's, you can find balance with the inclusiveness and the exclusiveness to something because sometimes our art just needs to be interpreted solely by the viewer. And I think that if it calls to you to, you know, even titles... I mean, that influences the person that sees it right when they read it. So I suppose it depends on the intention of the artwork of the artist, where what's the intention behind it? Does it need to be inclusive? Or can it just stand on its own and be exclusive? Yeah, I really truly think it just depends on how the artist feels about their work of art.

[00:29:26] Lindsey Dinneen: That's another great answer. Well, I just want to say again, Erin, thank you so much for joining me on this show. And, I know that I am feeling inspired and I'm sure our listeners are too, but I just wanna say, for my own sake, thank you so much for sharing your art with the world, for being brave and being responsible and authentic in what you do and for truly making the world a more beautiful place, more inspirational place.. And, thank you for impacting people you don't even know you're impacting. I really appreciate it.

[00:30:04] Erin Paige: Well, you are--I'm just going to say, you're welcome. Someone taught me a long ago to just say thank you or you're welcome, and leave it at that. It is an honor to be with you today and to share my stories and to answer your questions as authentically as I can.

[00:30:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, I love it. Okay. Well, thank you again so much to everyone who's listening to this episode. If you're feeling inspired and you have a friend or two that you feel would enjoy this too, please share this with anyone and everyone. And we will catch you next time.

[00:30:41] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:30:52] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you about Bluprint, which is the most amazing website for artists and makers of all levels. Bluprint lets you dig into anything you've ever daydreamed about doing, like dance, fitness, yoga, art, and home decorating, plus all the arts and crafts categories you know and love. More than 13 million enthusiasts, from artists to quilters and beyond, make Bluprint their home for binge-worthy, on-demand content, access to the world's top experts, and curated supplies, all served up in a fun-loving. Creative community. Super cool. And even better currently they're offering 50% off their classes. So if you are interested in taking advantage of that, learning a new skill, having an amazing time, working with experts in their fields, you will love to take advantage of this offer. And you'll just click on the link in my comments and my show notes, and you'll be rocking and rolling.

In this episode, I welcome Roman Mykyta! Roman is an incredible professional dancer, who has trained his entire life in classical ballet and traditional Ukranian folk dancing. He shares some of the most impactful encounters with art that inspired him to become an artist. 

Get in touch with Roman Mykyta: /https://www.facebook.com/roman.mykyta.5

Bluprint: More than 13 million enthusiasts - from artists to quilters and beyond - make Bluprint their home for binge-worthy on-demand content, access to the world’s top experts and curated supplies, all served up in a fun-loving creative community. Click here and use promo code 50OFF2 for 50% off all courses!

Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | [email protected]

Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview

Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 006 - Roman Mykyta

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told ,where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12] Roman Mykyta: All I can do is put my part in to the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really.  I mean, as long as you you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23]Elna:  Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.

[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello and welcome. This is Artfully Told, and I am so excited that you are joining me again today to learn about stories about art. And I am just really, really excited because I have a  truly wonderful person on my show today that gets to be my guest and I am really honored to have him here with me and with all of you. He is a very accomplished dancer, but also just a rock solid person, so kind and generous . So, thank you so much to Roman Mykyta for being with us today and I'm so glad you're here. Thank you.

[00:01:13] Roman Mykyta: Thank you, Lindsey, so much for having me. That was such a nice introduction. I'm so happy to be on this podcast. I think that this is a great podcast, such a great subject, meaningful encounters with art. As just mentioned before, that's such a rich topic and I'm so honored to be on this podcast and talk about it.

[00:01:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Wonderful.  So would you mind just sharing a little bit about, you know, who you are and maybe a little bit about your journey with art?

[00:01:40] Roman Mykyta: Of course. So I am a dancer. The first story I want to share about my meaningful encounter with art was kind of my first inspiration to be a dancer, but I'll save that for the next bit. But when I was very young, I was inspired to be a dancer and, it was actually Ukrainian folk dancing. My grandfather was from Ukraine. As I go into the story, he brought me this video of the Ukrainian National Dance Ensemble. It's called the Virsky Ensemble.  I saw that video and I was inspired to start dancing. I  started in a local Ukrainian dance ensemble, but just, for anyone who's ever seen Ukrainian dancing it's--if you have an image of cossack dancing, it's the same type of thing.

[00:02:22] There's a lot of squats, a lot of big jumps and all of these, very exciting dances and tricks. And it's a mix between ballet already being part of Ukrainian culture, as well as just the, the ability to do those types of movement with good technique. I was really encouraged from a young age to start taking ballet as a type of cross training. And so I started Ukrainian dance when I was five, but by the time I was seven, I was taking ballet lessons. And just from there, kind of the rest is history. I trained throughout school and throughout high school as a dancer and doing ballet and Ukrainian dance, as well as all other, different styles of dance, folk dances, as well as styles like modern or jazz. And after I graduated high school I had the opportunity to audition for the ballet company, which was in my state.

[00:03:15] And that was  Ballet Theater of Maryland.  I danced in the Ballet Theater of Maryland a total of about four years--four seasons. And then there was actually an opportunity to travel to Ukraine and to work with that group, which was the very first group that was, in the video that my grandfather gave me, and as you could imagine, just that opportunity was very unique and kind of like a dream come true. And so I took advantage of that opportunity and, I went to Ukraine, starting in the fall of 2017 and I am staying there continuing to dance. And also, as I had mentioned, I went right from high school into the ballet company, but while I'm in Ukraine, I'm also getting a degree in dance, pedagogy and choreography. Just for me being there, I feel completely in my element professionally.

[00:04:09] There really is in my niche, because in addition to the normal styles of dance that you would do, for example, here in the USA, they also really focus on developing the choreographic and pedagogical skills, like in pedagogy to teach, all of the theatrical folk dancing, which is just between Ukraine and Russia.

[00:04:27] They really kind of specialize in that style. And, even when I'm in the USA, I'm usually called upon to dance some of those roles or to teach that kind of style. And so just in the longterm, having, having that experience and having that education from Ukraine really means a lot. My typical life right now--I'm living in Kiev, dancing and studying, and also doing some other jobs that are kind of new to me. I'm doing a little bit of journalism, which started with writing reviews about some of the dance performances in Kiev, but has kind of evolved into other things.

[00:04:59]I have a couple of interests, in addition to dance I love very much, but just all my life, dance and all of the other arts that are adjacent to it that are a touchstone have always been such a big part of my life, and remain such an important part of my life. It's definitely something that I'm so passionate about. I'm actually the first person in my family to be a dancer, although my parent, are both really-- not professionally--but they both really love the arts. My dad loves to play the guitar and he loves to sing. My mom also loves to sing and she likes to be in plays or in different musicals.

[00:05:35]And so that's just the love for it--all the arts in general. Oh, and I forgot to mention it's also very important-- my dad, because my family, is the type of Christians who are Eastern Orthodox--my dad is also an iconographer, which is basically making the, religious art, the icons, which just are part of our tradition. And, so that's painting basically. So all the arts are really, special in our family. And I've always been so thankful that my parents have always been so supportive of my love for all of the arts and especially for dance, and supported me every step of the way, and continue to support me.

[00:06:14]As I said, my typical, normal life right now is living in Kiev. But I am home right now, during the coronavirus. I'm working from home anyway, with my studies and it was just easier to come home during this time and do the quarantine with family. So right now I'm logging in from the USA. But, that's the overview of my life stories, especially related to dance and what I would consider also all the arts, but it's really colored by so many meaningful encounters that I've had with art, whether it's been initially inspired by it or how I feel when I, I'm going to perform, and kind of just how meaningful an experience that is to me.

[00:07:01]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you have such a rich background and so much diversity with the art that you've been able to be a part of and exposed to and, with your family being so invested in it, I think that's incredible. I mean you've certainly been able to have just such a cool background that obviously shaped you as a person and as a dancer and an artist. And you're dabbling in other art, like writing with your journalism, which is very cool.

[00:07:30] Roman Mykyta: Thank you so much. I do feel very blessed.

[00:07:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, I know you do have a few meaningful encounters with art to share with us today. So I'm super excited to hear them.

[00:07:41] Roman Mykyta: Yes. Since we first talked, Lindsey, I've just been thinking about so many different things and I'll try to--I want to share all of them--and, I'll try to keep them all organized. I think the most important one that I want to share is kind of my initial encounter with art, which was basically inspired me to be a dancer and I distinctly remember when my grandfather who was from Ukraine brought me that video of the Virsky Ukrainian Dance Ensemble. I distinctly remember watching it and just some of the thoughts that my two year old brain was having, 'cause I was two when he showed it to me. Again for those who have maybe, like an image from the collective consciousness of Ukrainian dancing, but I highly recommend anyone to look for it on YouTube, especially Virsky, spelled V I R S K Y. The costumes are incredibly colorful and the dancing, the typical theme is usually very joyful.

[00:08:40] And it's very athletic, especially for the men's role. And so it's very impressive. And the women are also in their full costume, they all just seem so beautiful. And so, and just in the professional quality of the Virsky Ensemble, they just present thier folk dance. And, when they perform it--'cause they perform internationally--they're kind of serving as cultural ambassadors. And so in their professional style, they imbue all of that dancing with just the spirit of hospitality, the spirit of just openness, like this kind of agape love type of atmosphere kind of permeates so much of their show.  Culturally, it's the connection with other countries, as I said, kind of working as cultural ambassadors and spreading peace and love ultimately.

[00:09:28] And just so their typical show is just so beautiful. Both in like the true ethnographic folk dance as well as just their presentation is just, making it the most beautiful and the most accessible as possible. Between the colorful costumes and just their bright smiles and just these beautiful looking people to me, I distinctly remember that dancers seemed like angels and the stage seemed like heaven.

[00:09:55] And, in my young understanding of life, when I imagined heaven, I imagined that it was like that video that my grandfather showed me with all these people dancing. And, later in life, I read things, and heaven is also sometimes described as a dance. And so I guess that's not completely too much for two year old fantasy, but that was just the image of goodness and this kind of a perfect reality. And so, that's just, that was so special for me. And then as I said, when there was the opportunity to work with that group later in my life-- just once I had access to the opportunity, as you could imagine--it's not just, professionally and it's not just as a job to be with this particular company, but also just in my heart and in my soul, it was something which I just associate with only kind of these good things, blessings from life. And so it's just so meaningful. I feel very passionate about this topic, meaningful encounters with art. And my only regret is that I feel like just to talk about it is -- sometimes I can lose words to describe the whole effect.

[00:11:03] I just encourage anything that I'm saying-- if any of the listeners can go and look and see yourself-- just because, I can describe it, but experiencing it is even better. So that I distinctly remember, with the Virsky Ensemble, just falling in love with these ideas about goodness, but then also just, dance was the medium and then just falling in love with a dance because of that. So that was the first thing that I saw and I watched that VHS tape so many times and whenever it would finish, I would be sad and beg for my parents or my grandparents, whoever was watching with me, to rewind it again, just so I could watch it from the beginning. I watched and I danced with it so many times

[00:11:50] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that.

[00:11:51]Roman Mykyta:  And so my dad's side of my family is from Ukraine, but my mom's side is actually Irish. And so, because they saw that I really loved Ukrainian dancing, they got me "Riverdance," and that was also a piece of art that was just so amazing to me as well. It's a completely different look and feel than the Ukrainian dancing, but it also just the theatrical effect of this type of performance is just amazing.

[00:12:18] And whether it's the majesty of all of those dancers lined up and doing the Irish dancing with that powerful rhythm, it's like a completely different look and feel, as I said, from the Ukrainian dance, it creates such this powerful sensation.  In "Riverdance," there is the Irish dancers, also the flamenco dancers, and there are even the Russian dancers. And I think just seeing all of these different kinds of folk dancing, which had also like a personal connection with me and my family, but just seeing all of it and seeing all of the different interpretations of these life themes or concepts that you can find in these different dances from a very early age that introduced to me the idea of infinite variations of beauty, infinite variations of goodness. That helped me understand as a child, in a way, that concept of God is everywhere present .

[00:13:04] And, that you can find, if it's something of goodness in every culture, you can find something of God in every culture. And that was really such a powerful concept  when I was little-- of course I didn't think of it quite like in the terms as I'm explaining it now-- but to kind of put into words, what I think I was feeling, as a child, and so that was-- I especially really loved both of those videos. and those were my first introductions into dance. And, any, even things like the colors of the costumes, the colors of the lighting, it was just all that's part of why the Sage was heaven to me because it could change and it could become colorful and it would just be so like, magical is probably the best word.

[00:13:47]That was really amazing, but some other things meaningful encounters with art that I experienced in my childhood-- one that really comes to mind-- the second live show that I saw was actually my mom in a production of "Godspell."  For those who don't know, "Godspell" is a musical with music by Stephen Schwartz. And it's hard to describe again, but it's basically this impressionistic  theater piece, exploring the teachings of Jesus and especially from the gospel of Saint Matthew, while "Jesus Christ Superstar"--for those who are familiar with that is much more of like a dramatic passion play--"Godspell" is much more of taking the essence of the teachings. There is kind of a Jesus figure, but it's not meant to be as literal as "Jesus Christ Superstar," it's much more impressionistic and it's, it has this atmosphere to it because all of the ensemble is purposefully acting kind of clownish, like small children that came from the concept where it's like, you have to humble yourself as a small child to enter the kingdom of heaven.

[00:14:49] And so, it was in this theater piece that creates this atmosphere of taking that with a group of typically adults who are playing in the show kind of to the maximum and when the show is done really well, the power of the gospel and then in that setting can-- it's just especially powerful. Now I remember it most because I remember when they would run through the audience. And I remember seeing my mom and I remember when there was a very dramatic scene and the lighting changed again. That's like an example of how to live, and when like the actors are acting in a way which is fully accessible, fully loving each other, just this beautiful community that is created on stage,  it's just kind of like this vision of how I would want my own life to be.

[00:15:34]Again, for those who are not super familiar, I just recommend to maybe give that a try. "Godspell" was kind of a musical theater piece that I loved when I was little also because it came out around the, it came out in 1999, and at that time I was four. At that point, there were a couple of Andrew Lloyd Weber musicals that were being made in a very special, movie version format. And there was Joseph, "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat" with Donny Osmond. There was "Cats." Those were the two that again, we rented from the video store so many times and I watched over and over again.

[00:16:10] I absolutely loved "Cats." I loved all the dancing in it and I would dance around to all the numbers. And that's another show that I really like. I think it's a little bit under appreciated. It seems very esoteric. It seems like maybe not a lot of people would get it. I encourage you, if you're not sure about "Cats," think of it like an exploration of how to be more human. It's through the dramatic exercise of acting like a cat or pretending to be a cat. And it's not so much like the actor being a cat, it's more about like a dancer being a cat because it's that whole kind of what our typical uniform is wearing legwarmers and things like that.

[00:16:50] And just kind of moving in a maximumly expressive style, not like super in a classical form, like in ballet, but it's a mix between ballet and jazz. And so if you can kind of discover your humanity in that, I encourage to look at it kind of with those sides and not to worry about it too much, being two hours about the life of a cat or life of cats.

[00:17:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. But the music is incredible, so it does have that going for it, for sure. And yeah, and the movement quality is, is amazing.

[00:17:19] Roman Mykyta: Any Andrew Lloyd Weber music definitely lends itself to a transcendent quality. And so if, if the music is good, it's, it's trying to pull out something interesting in the story, and so I definitely, and how kind of amazing and creative to like, do something a little bit unconventional, but still get something, which is still meaningful. I would consider those four the major things from my childhood, and kind of the things which really kind of inspired my love for all the performing arts, the arts in general, especially dance.

[00:17:53] I feel like it's also really important to talk about my time dancing   Some people don't always get classical ballet or on the surface or don't always get it. I definitely encourage a lot of people who are less familiar with ballet, just to know that ballet has a really big history and therefore also has a really big range. And I most people know ballet just like for the Tchaikovsky ballets, which are really beautiful in of themselves like "Swan Lake" or "Nutcracker."

[00:18:24] But if they feel kind of not connected to their time or even connected to their culture, can feel a little bit divorced from their experience. But I would just encourage, there's a huge history of ballet with a lot of different movements in it's evolution of choreographic art, in the same way that the fine arts of painting or music also went through several reinventions or renovation, so to speak.

[00:18:48]For my experience when I was dancing in a ballet company, what was most, and still is really important for me is--as I kind of explained just even from like my very young years, just that effect that performance, could have for me, especially a dance performance or a musical theater performance.  It really is convicting to me to create the same experience, the best that I can--just to pray that I can-- for whatever audience, it's coming to see the performance. I love it, especially when we're doing "Nutcracker" and we have an audience of kids, because I just hope that we can, as a cast, make the story, make the show, as big ,theatrical, colorful as when I was really little like watching "Joseph" was for me.

[00:19:34] In order for me to kind of invest in a role, I have always tried to find the deeper meaning of a story and sometimes dance literature doesn't always go quite as deep. But if the ballet has a fairytale connected to it, chances are analysts have kind of unpacked that fairy tale for its meanings and things, which are the big major truths that anyone in different walks of life can take from it. I'm not dancing for myself. I'm not dancing to get the applause of other people. I kind of suffer from some stage fright. And if I was dancing for myself, it really wouldn't be worth it. But the only way that really makes it worth it is if I feel like I'm doing something, which is meaningful--that I'm telling a parable, so to speak, or participating in a parable, which is going to be impacting.

[00:20:26] And the only part that I can do is just dance with that intention. And it's really, this is the interesting thing how art works--because all I can do is put my part out into the world. Not every audience member is going to see the--they'll see the same ballet--but they won't necessarily get the same thing out of it. It kind of comes from where you're coming from or even the personal tastes that you have and how you feel about things. Certainly not everything is for everyone. And, a big thing with enjoying a piece is also just whatever mood you're in before you're going in to see it. And for me, whenever I'm an audience member, I always try to be really open to whatever I'm going to see, try to really understand and try to unpack for myself what potential meanings could be.  They can be all kinds of things that can be more literal or they can be very impressionistic. It's just like a mood-- it's kind of, it's hard to quantify all these things because part of the infinite nature of it is that it can be all of these different variations and it's hard to pinpoint them or classify them all.

[00:21:33] I talked about what I do as a dancer, but as an audience member, I love to just watch, try to understand, and I find a lot of joy just from unpacking what I can understand out of it, maybe debriefing about it with whoever I went to go see the show with or something like that. That to me, that's, that's my ideal night out, both participating in or watching and discussing it, both sides, I really like.

[00:21:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you so much for those insights. Yeah. I just want to encourage people to have open conversations about art and to please ask questions. I can't speak for all artists universally, but I can certainly speak for myself and I think for Roman as well, and a lot of artists that we love curiosity. We would love to help answer any questions you have. So if something's unclear or you just are curious as to why we chose a certain element to what we do, I think most of us would love the opportunity to share more about our process, about what inspired us about why we made the choices that we did, because we are trying to be so intentional about the way that we create. And so having those honest conversations is really special.

[00:22:47] Roman Mykyta: And I could say the same thing for myself as well. As I said, nothing energizes me more than either performing, choreographing, or talking about it, or watching-- just to encourage dialogue, between audience member and performer or creator, I think that that is the best way to, to share and to, and just like this podcast, to share our meaningful encounters with art, and this podcast is such a good platform.

[00:23:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you so much for that insight.  I just have a couple of questions for you to wrap this up. The first is how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:23:30] Roman Mykyta: Art is ultimately a worldview. I'm sorry, I just want to be thoughtful and not leave anything out, but I think art starts with a worldview and it can be-- it's very intentional and it's very presentational and it's always a form of communication with the creator and the viewer. But where my head is now I kind of feel like art is everywhere around us, even just looking out the window. The art is within the worldview to be able to see anything and to give it meaning, and it can be good or bad meaning, but I personally always like the good meeting, and to just kind of commune with all of these things in our life, which are indicative of something which is truthful and, in my mind, truthful also goes with, goes along with good. I feel like art can be like that. There's that kind of statement--art is in the eye of the beholder. And I feel like that's--that can be true that art can just be a person's worldview and how they give meaning to the world.

[00:24:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. I love it. Okay, my second question is what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:24:41] Roman Mykyta: Hmm. I think the most important role of an artist is to be truthful about reality and how they see it. And along with that, to be honest, that opens up a lot of different doors, whether being truthful and honest is being very joyful and expressing the beauty in life, or it can be expressing the pain that we all feel, and then the way you treat that, whether it's with humor, with seriousness or drama, I feel like there's a place for all of those things. I'm sensitive personally about not overloading audience with what's negative.

[00:25:18]It's really important to be honest, to be raw and to express pain, honestly, but in a way, I feel like we are so inundated by bad news, and just other dramas and political things that I almost feel like if we're so out of balance that way, I would encourage artists to-- it gives the audience a bread and life from the other side. 'Cause in my personal life, I feel like in the people who I know we need more of a goodness color and light than we need more anger, but ultimately it's important to just be honest and truthful.

[00:25:58] Lindsey Dinneen: My final question is, do you think art should be exclusive or inclusive? And I'll define that a little bit more: exclusive, meaning that the artist puts something out into the world and doesn't give a whole lot of context for it, whether that's not, you know, providing program notes or description or something like that. So you don't necessarily know the inspiration or the reasoning behind it. Versus inclusive, meaning that the artist gives you that context, tells you why they chose the colors that they did, or, or the particular movement pattern that they did or whatever. So kind of inviting you into that process. So you understand a little bit more of the artist's intention.

[00:26:42] Roman Mykyta: I definitely feel like I understand. For me, when I am presenting either in the performance or creator mode, I value being inclusive. I really, as I said, I personally just really like to dialogue. And so, whether it is a program notes or, giving an intro or just dialoguing with anyone who I'm currently working with, or anyone who has seen what I've done.

[00:27:09] And, you know, I'm always happy to talk about it because to me, the joy is in the dialogue. And I understand on the exclusive side, some people like to have the openness to variety of meanings and not to peg something down, so that people, audience members, can be free with their imagination. But I personally feel that even inclusive mold, you know, audience members can listen, but they can also still freely form their own opinion.

[00:27:38] I guess it depends on the personalities of individual people. Maybe some people, if they are given more insight, they're going to just stick with that and maybe not think about other things, and so preserving the exclusive mold just helps to keep that open, but I personally really like the inclusive mold. And even, in my experience, as an audience member with either the inclusive or the exclusive mold, I mean, I'm really hungry for the creator or the performer to give me their inclusive worldview. Even if I get that, I still freely form my own thoughts about something.   There could be a movie musical piece of music that the creator/performers shared their worldview and it might not be something that I completely understand or, even agree with. I personally think there's nothing lost with the inclusive mold and it's ultimately just great to have the dialogue.

[00:28:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. That is really great insight. And I really appreciate your perspective about how dialogues about art can create so much more meaning to your encounters. And I think that that is so important. What stood out to me about what you said was you're talking about how having the inclusive mold does not mean that you can't take from it what you will anyway. Even if you have the context of what the artist originally intended doesn't mean that you can't also draw your own conclusions.

[00:29:13] And I think that's a really nice balance and I haven't heard it said like that before, so thank you for that. And I just want to say, in general, Roman, thank you so much for being on this podcast and thank you so much for your heart for art and your heart for the world. You help make the world a better place because you're willing to share your art as a dancer, choreographer, journalist. And I truly believe that in what you're doing, you're making the world a more beautiful, inclusive place. And I just want to say thank you for that, because I know I appreciate it personally, but I, I know that what you do does impact the world. So thank you for that.

[00:29:53]Roman Mykyta: Oh, my goodness. Thank you, Lindsey, so much.  That was such beautiful words. I'm just so honored and so thankful that I was invited to be a part of this podcast and I just think, we were talking about how meaningful dialogues are--this podcast, I think is so crucial in promoting that. And I cannot wait to hear all the more episodes from all the future guests that you will have. And just to be able to have that listening dialogue with all the other artists who you will have.

[00:30:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you again so much, Roman, for joining me today. And thank you so much to all of our listeners who have tuned in. I hope you feel inspired and rejuvenated and ready to witness some art and have great conversations about it because that's what it's all about. If this episode particularly inspired you today, would you just share it with a friend or two who might also be inspired? And until then we will catch you next time.

[00:30:57] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:31:07] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you about Bluprint, which is the most amazing website for artists and makers of all levels. Bluprint lets you dig into anything you've ever daydreamed about doing like dance, fitness, yoga, art, and home decorating, plus all the arts and crafts categories you know and love. More than 13 million enthusiasts, from artists to quilters and beyond, make Bluprint their home for binge-worthy, on-demand content, access to the world's top experts and curated supplies, all served up in a fun, loving creative community. Super cool. And even better, currently they're offering 50% off their classes. So if you are interested in taking advantage of that, learning a new skill, having an amazing time, working with experts in their fields--you will love to take advantage of this offer. And you'll just click on the link in my comments and my show notes, and you'll be rocking and rolling.

In this episode, I welcome Danielle Guy! Danielle is a well-rounded artist who is currently pursuing her passion of directing plays and musicals. She shares about one of the most difficult directing experiences she's had by tackling a very controversial musical. 

Get in touch with Danielle Guy: https://danielledirects.com/

Artist's Edge: The Mission of Artist’s EDGE is to raise the level of Business Intelligence, Life Skills and Emotional Intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, their creativity, and their unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Click here to access all courses!

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Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 005 - Danielle Guy

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part out in to the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.

[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, hello, welcome back to Artfully Told. Thank you so much for joining me again. I'm Lindsey, and I am so excited to have the wonderful Danielle Guy on our podcast today. She is a wonderful human being, but also an artist and just has so many amazing. stories to tell about life, about art, and I'm just so excited to have her. So thank you so much, Danielle, for joining us. We're so happy!

[00:01:04] Danielle Guy: Yes, and thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Yay. Well, can you share a little bit about who you are and your involvement in art and all that fun stuff?

[00:01:14]Danielle Guy: Yeah, so I have kind of dipped my toes into a lot of different art styles, with dance and music; I was for the longest time a pianist and opera singer, and then I went into theater, which is kind of where I found my, my niche. And I started out acting specifically in classical works, with Shakespeare. But as time has developed, I have really found my position as a director. And it's, it's fun to see how things have changed and morphed over the years from, you know, thinking I was one thing and then leading into this place that I never thought I'd be.  I had a theater company for a while as well, and now I'm just doing freelance, freelance directing work.

[00:02:08]Lindsey Dinneen:  Awesome. And, I just have to caveat. So Danielle is my adopted cousin, just to give some context, and I can attest to the fact that she was probably always born for theater, because--do you want to just share a little bit about your birthday parties?

[00:02:31] Danielle Guy: Oh, my God. Okay. So I was such a weird kid. So when I think it was the first time we did this, I might have been eight. I had these books that was like Shakespeare for kids. And I got inspired by them and I told my mom that for my birthday, I wanted to have a Shakespeare party and we're going to-- the first one was "12th Night." I was like, we're going to put on a play of "12th Night." And so  I  made all my friends come over and I told them what roles that they would be, and we would create, like, it was probably like 10 to 15 minutes versions of Shakespeare's plays. And we did that for four years.

[00:03:23] Lindsey Dinneen: It was so fun.

[00:03:24] Danielle Guy: Oh my gosh, thank you! And then remember we used to do the American Girl doll plays all the time.

[00:03:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, my gosh, I forgot about that, but you're right, we did. That was so fun.

[00:03:35] Danielle Guy: And I was Marta in the Kirsten story, and my death scene was impeccable.

[00:03:41] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm sure it was. So all that to say, it really--those of us who've known her, it comes as no surprise that eventually she would become a director and have had her own company and all of that jazz. But no, we had hours and hours of  so much fun putting together these plays. And I think if I remember correctly for "Romeo and Juliet," I'm pretty sure we had to have like a progressive theater experience for the audience because we did the balcony scene, like, on the landing of the stairs or something?

[00:04:17] Danielle Guy: Yes. Yeah, it was a, it was definitely situational art . It was very ahead of its time.

[00:04:23]Lindsey Dinneen: I hope there's video footage. I don't think I ever want to see it, but just to know it exists.

[00:04:28] Danielle Guy: My mom has all of them. I never want to see it ever, but I know it exists.

[00:04:34]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yes, those were some great memories right there, but I know you have probably a bazillion stories to tell, but, yeah, we'd love to share with you, and if there's anything in particular that stands out.

[00:04:47] Danielle Guy: Yeah. So a lot of things that people don't understand when they think of, like, theater--and I will even say some theaters take themselves a little too seriously. And when you go in there, like this is the vision, this is how it's going to go. And this is how it will always go and there will be no change,  but I feel like a lot of people don't realize the flexibility and also the, the acceptance that you have to have going in as a director, because you see it in like, movies and TV shows all the time of the trope of the director who's a tyrant and everything must go their way, but honestly, we have to answer to a lot of people. And we also have to take into account just what materially you have to work with--there are actors and their limitations. And, you will go into something thinking that it's going to look one way, but the end product is completely different.

[00:05:49] And I think the one that, that really showed up as was the past production that I did, which was "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." And I did that at Dominion Stage in Arlington. It's the first one that I did since I moved to the DC area. And just to give you an idea, I was not supposed to direct that musical. At all. I went in first with a proposal for a play called "City of Conversation."

[00:06:19] It's a straight play. It's very much up my alley. Typically I do small cast family-led dramas, not musicals. I've done a few here and there, but that was very much my niche, and they really liked that. But then they were trying to flush out their season and they're like, "Well, we really don't have a main stage musical. Do you have a proposal for a main stage musical?" And I had one for "Next to Normal," which is one of my favorite musicals in the entire world. And so they decided after I gave a presentation to go with that and I was like, "Cool." So I am planning this, this four to five person musical that is all about mental health. It's female-driven, all the things that really get me going. And then the Kennedy Center announced that they were going to do "Next to Normal." So our rights got pulled.

[00:07:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh...

[00:07:21] Danielle Guy: I know! And I remember, I will never forget, I was on Instagram and I was just scrolling and I saw the Kennedy Center come up and I was like, "Oh cool. They're announcing what they're doing." I was like, "Awesome. Would love to go see that and that, and oh... oh no. Oh, no." I texted my producer, my executive producer on the board. I was like, "Hey, I don't think we're going to do "Next to Normal." Am I correct in this?" They're like, "Yeah, we're totally not." So our rights got pulled and I didn't know what to do.

[00:08:05] And I sat down with my best friend and my fiance, Matt, Matt Calvert . And we were going through the alphabet and we were coming up with musical proposals that I could write for, and A, B, C, and then we, we narrowed it down and there's this musical called "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." And I immediately said no, because "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson" is kind of like the cursed production of theater, because it's very controversial. It's-- if anyone has seen "The Book of Mormon," it's satire like that, but not as well written. And also the satire doesn't always come across as satire. Some people take it a little too seriously, and I understand why, because of the writing.

[00:09:01]It's a satirical work of the presidency of Andrew Jackson and specifically his removal of the Native Americans from the East and moving them out West. And it's done in a punk rock setting. It's very heavy distortions. It's extremely into, in your face.  This production has been protested by a lot of people because specifically there's one, one number and it called "10 Little Indians." And in the original production, they had a whole bunch of white people dressed up in feathers and garb , and when it came out originally, it was kind of right before all of that really came into view. But especially now it's like, no, we were not going to do that.

[00:09:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:09:55]Danielle Guy: But I created a proposal for it and like five other shows and I did a big old dump for the board and they're like, "That's the one we're going to do." "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson" And I remember asking them, I was like, "Are you sure?" And honestly, I think that was a very smart move, especially for what's happening right now. Some people don't know this, President Trump has a portrait of Andrew Jackson in the Oval Office. And Andrew Jackson is one of the most controversial and most xenophobic presidents that we've ever had.

[00:10:28]So that's fun. And specifically for Dominion , their theater company, they are not afraid of making those comments or being controversial. So, wow. I was able to do this, but when I went in, I had this this idea where it's like, of course, we're not going to--we're not going to portray the Native Americans with a whole bunch of white people. We're not going to put head dresses on them. We're going to have none of that. Of course, I was like, we're very much going to keep it as respectful as possible. But fortunately with the cast that I had and how brave they were, what it ended up being was just this powerhouse of social justice.

[00:11:13]Lindsey Dinneen: Hm.

[00:11:14]Danielle Guy: I was very surprised with how young the cast was. Our youngest person was 21, and the dedication that they had to the entire text and they definitely were fearless. I'm sure that a whole bunch of actors, and rightfully so, after the first read through, " Be like, I'm not sure if I can do this". I will never forget the first read through where afterward everyone was dead silent. Like, there is a lot of messed up stuff in that, it's pretty messed up and we're going to lean into it because we kind of have to because of what's happening right now. And I know that a lot of people think, "Oh, art, it's for entertainment. It's, it's fine." It's like, yeah, but also art has to be truthful. And I felt like this was the production that could be very truthful. And by the end, we were going in and we were just like, "We hope people leave. We hope that they're offended that we're making comments," and be like, "This is not okay." And no one did actually, we never had anyone leave, which was surprising to me, considering like the F bomb was dropped every two seconds. But yeah, it's--and there were a lot of times as a director that I feel like I could have held on to my original idea for it, but it wouldn't be as good. It really is letting go and letting your actors and also your team come up with ideas. Like my, my set designer had such a cool idea of making the space into a very, very close setting where the actors were maybe maybe three feet away from the first row.

[00:13:06]My set designer, Amber, she made it super colorful. Like the stage was covered in carpets and there were all different colors and she had tapestries that were different designs, all the walls. And it was just very--when you walked in--it felt like your living room, it was very home-y. It was definitely not what I had in mind. And what I had in mind was like rock concert. I don't mind if there's a pit or, you know, if we raise the stage a little bit, and she was like, "No, no, no, we're gonna make this feel kind of like what we did where it's like in your living room." And so that way you were unable to separate yourself from the action and be like, "Well, this is just a story." It's like, "No, you in it, people are able to look at you. They see if you're pulling out your phone."

[00:13:57]Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh. Yeah.

[00:13:59]Danielle Guy: So yeah, that was very interesting. And that was something I could have been like, "No, I want it to be like that." So glad I did it because it changed everything. And, yeah, it's just one of those things where you need to, to trust other people and their designs and their ideas and just be like, "Cool. If you believe in it, I believe in it."

[00:14:18]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's powerful. So how, how did audiences react? I mean, obviously it was a difficult thing that you were bringing forth and I love what you said about art needs to be truthful. I absolutely agree with you. but so yeah, I mean, what was, what was the audience reaction and how did you feel at the end? How did your cast feel at the end? I mean, that, that is a huge undertaking.

[00:14:39]Danielle Guy: Yeah, it was mixed responses. So we actually did have a small protest, not at the production, but before on social media, where an individual who did not want to enter a conversation with us, a dialogue of us being like, "Well, this is how we're changing it. This is what we're doing to make sure that we're showing that, 'Hey, this is not funny about the Native Americans. The Native Americans aren't a joke. Who is the joke is Andrew Jackson in this.'" We would have loved to have that conversation, but they just weren't interested in hearing it, so we had a little bit of a protest, but also we anticipated that. And we also had, I had reached out to a colleague of mine from college who is a Cherokee. He lives in Colorado. And we had talked about it long before we were even in rehearsals and coming up with ideas of how to do this musical, but keep it respectful as well and really to get the correct message across.

[00:15:44]And also we had someone who formerly worked at The Smithsonian of  Native Americans come and watch it in rehearsal, just so I can be like, "Hey, if you see anything, because we are doing our best, but I'm sure we've missed something, like, please let us know." I wrote an open letter to audience members about like, "Hey, is this a problematic play?Absolutely. It is. However, this is how we are addressing it and moving forward." So we had put that on social media. It was surprisingly published--we didn't know they were doing this--in the DC Metro Theater Report, which is on Facebook and in print. So that was really cool. We knew that audience members were kind of prepared, even if they didn't know the musical.

[00:16:31] It's like, okay, you're walking into something that you're going to be offended by probably. And so some audience members really got the message and were really into it. And then, and we're like, yes, we see how you were able to show the narrative as truth of, of history and how awful Andrew Jackson is and how that mindset of basically, you know, white supremacy has padded come up again in the name of, nationalism and patriotism.

[00:17:04]And then there were some audience members and I was, I always love talking to them where they're like, "Yes, we understand what you're doing, but we still don't think this musical should ever be done because it's just too offensive." And I, there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to art. I don't think that it's ever black and white, your opinion and how you perceive art, is just how you perceive art.

[00:17:31] And it's not a right or wrong thing. It's just your reaction. I say the same thing in my day job. I am a sommelier. When you taste wine, when you try wine, you like it, or you don't. I'm the one who is trained to find the notes and everything, but you know, what, if you're not a professional, your main thing is like, "Do I like it?" And that's how you can go with art too.  Do I like this? Yes? No? Cool. It doesn't have to be any deeper than that. If you want to go deeper--absolutely, I love having those conversations--but if someone comes in and absolutely hated it, you hated it. That's cool. It's not your thing.

[00:18:12] Yeah, and actually to that point, I'm curious, I imagine you had some people that came in that did hate it because they were uncomfortable and they were, they were frustrated because this stuff is difficult to, to take in. And so did you have anybody who wanted to have a conversation about like, I hated this...

[00:18:32] It was super cool. I loved that when someone was like, "I hated it." And I was like, "Cool, I'm not offended. I don't care, but can you tell me why." It's the why that interests me. And we had some really good conversations that came out of it. And one woman who was a little older, I sat down with her. She was related to someone in the cast. A nd she's like, "I just really didn't like it." I was like, "Well, could you explain to me why?" And her whole thing was because there were things that were not factual in the musical--and we can debate artistic license-- but I understand what you're saying. Where she's like, "Especially when you have someone who is as terrible as Andrew Jackson, you don't have to make stuff up to make him more terrible or more likable or what have you. It's like, she definitely wanted it to stick to actual history, and I totally get that. That's totally fine. But it's definitely something I had no power over. I couldn't change the script.

[00:19:36]  Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I think that's one of the most powerful things that art can do is start conversations that you might not otherwise have unless you're confronted with something that you A) don't understand, B) don't appreciate, C), don't like. I mean, I think there's a lot of value in the conversations that art can bring because, you're right! I mean, there's--like you said earlier on some level, it's like, do you like it or don't you? But at the same time, I love that you can take that and then ask, well, why? And then you have an intelligent conversation about, you know, what you took from that. I love that.

[00:20:13] Danielle Guy: Yeah, exactly. And also, and this is something that I talked to my, my cast a lot about--where it's like, people are going to dislike this show. Don't be offended, because that is their right. And that also sparked a conversation in the cast where, you know, we're in a time right now where everyone's offended by something, and then you're offended if someone's offended--it's just all a terrible circle. And I was like, "Guys, this is, we're talking about Andrew Jackson, we're talking about America. And one of the most American things we have is the, the right to express your opinion, that you have a voice-- freedom of speech. So it's like, let them have that freedom of speech because we're definitely exercising it with this. And if you want to be an example for other people, when someone looks at you and says, "I hated your show," just ask why and then say, "Thank you ," and move on.

[00:21:10]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I love that. And actually I think that gives a lot of freedom because, you're absolutely right. I mean, if you're trying to appeal and this goes for even a quote, end quote "non-controversial" show, right? I mean, in the sense that you're going to have people that walk away and they're like, "That was stupid," or "That was bad," you know what I mean? Like, you're just going to have somebody who doesn't like it and, and having the freedom to say, "It's okay." You're going to have our fans who are grateful and like it, and then you're going to have your critics who are like, "Well, I didn't," and having that freedom as an artist to say, "Well, that's not a reflection on me. Honestly, it's the reflection on them in the sense of, back to your fundamental point, they liked it or they didn't, but it's not you. And I think that actually gives a lot of freedom. I love that perspective.

[00:21:54] Danielle Guy: Thank you. I mean, also as artists, it can be difficult because your art is an extension of yourself, so it's hard to differentiate between that. But I think that a way for artists to also protect themselves, is by having that separation. Because, man, it's hard, especially with actors where, when I do workshops for auditions, I'm like, "You're going to get rejected. And you are going to get rejected again and again and again. And it's hard for you to not take that personally, because it is like you offering yourself. But if you want to say sane, you have to be able to look over it, not get over it, but look over it." Or it's like, well, it wasn't this time, but maybe the next. And yeah, just continue going. It's hard. It's a hard world.

[00:22:52]Lindsey Dinneen: I've said in the past--to be an artist is to be brave. And I think, just inherently, when you put yourself out there as an artist or you create something--even if you don't identify as, "Oh, I'm an artist", but you created something--I mean, it's brave. It takes guts to put something out into the world and say, "Here you go." And we'll see.

[00:23:13]Danielle Guy:  I will say like, one of the most terrifying moments of my life was when my mother went and saw the show.

[00:23:18]Lindsey Dinneen: I can imagine.

[00:23:19] Danielle Guy: She actually said it in a very good way where she is like, "I didn't like it, but I saw that it was well done," which is also a thing that I think people need to learn where it's just like, you can not like something, but it doesn't mean that it's trash. Honestly I love getting bad reviews. I just love hearing the other side of things, which maybe is like the most theatrical thing that you can do is because you always have to look at the other side of the coin with the character. But yeah, love, love it. I'm weird.

[00:23:53]Lindsey Dinneen: No, I mean, I'm going to say that is awesome because I think firstly, it's very tough to read reviews where you're like, "What are you talking about?" So kudos to you.

[00:24:02] Danielle Guy: You have to think about what you're going to expel your, your time and energy on. And move on with my life because my life is full of amazing people and I'm doing amazing things and that's all I really want to do with my life. So I'm not going to let a little blip, send me into a spiral.

[00:24:20]Lindsey Dinneen: Good for you. Oh my goodness. To all the artists out there who are afraid of a bad review, just remember Danielle's advice. You can, you can look at it and say, "You know what? I will accept a different opinion." And then you just move on because you got more amazing things to do.

[00:24:37] Danielle Guy: Exactly.

[00:24:38] Lindsey Dinneen: I just have a couple of questions for you if that's okay. So how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:24:46] Danielle Guy: Art is expression of truth done a visual way. So where it is taking some form of reality and putting it in a way that can be physicalized, whether it be by, you know, painting or drawing or by moving, or by speaking--just a different way to look at it--that is different from what our normal reality is, which can be quite boring.

[00:25:13] Lindsey Dinneen: And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:25:17]Danielle Guy:  Once again, going into the true thing, just tell the truth. I hear this all the time with actors where they're, where they say, "Oh, acting is my escape." And that's, those typically are the actors that are kind of hard to work with because it's not an escape. A lot of these characters are created out of some sense of reality. And I feel like we do them a dishonor by taking someone's potential life or potential situation and putting it on as a mask to escape the reality in our own. So it's just, you know, doing honor to the text doing honor to what has come before us.

[00:25:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. That's that's a great. Okay. And my last one--I'll kind of explain a little bit, but it's just totally in your personal opinion-- do you feel that art should be inclusive or exclusive? So exclusive kind of being, so an artist puts something out there and there's not necessarily a lot of explanation behind it--what inspired it? Maybe there's not a title to it. Maybe, you know, you just don't have a lot of context, versus inclusive being, you know, the artist describes the inspiration behind it or what they were feeling when they created it or just to provide a little bit more context of what you as the viewer or the observer might gain, I guess, or experience.

[00:26:49] Danielle Guy: Oh man. My avant garde is showing so hard. I would say exclusive. I'm just one of those people where it's like, just let the art talk. It takes away the magic when you have to go in and explain everything. It's like when you have to explain a joke, that is, like, not funny anymore.  There's this, video on YouTube that came out several years ago--it was all performance art-- where a woman was sitting at a table and you would go up and sit on the other side of the table and she would just look at you for an entire minute. No words at all. She would look; you give you direct eye contact for an entire minute. There was no explanation why. And, she didn't even advertise this as much where it, she had like a handler who's like, "We're doing this thing, please form a line if you'd like to be involved." And apparently the feedback from people--after their minute was done, it had moved them so much, and it meant different things to everyone. And I feel like to explain that moment would have--or her reason behind it-- what have you, what her goal was? I feel like it would have tarnished that very visceral and primal response that people had.  So yeah,  let it be exclusive. Don't let people always know because sometimes artists don't even have an answer. "I don't know why I did this. It just looked cool." I think, yeah, my avant-garde came out real hard there.

[00:28:29] Lindsey Dinneen: It did. But I love asking people that question because we get very different responses, and like art, it's subjective. And so I love it and I love the reasoning behind it . So, do you have, I know this is kind of an odd time, but do you have any upcoming projects or anything that you're working towards?

[00:28:46] Danielle Guy: Yeah, so, my main production that's coming up, is my wedding in October. So I'm taking a little bit of a break, and then this time next year, I will be directing "Five Women Wearing the Same Dress," which is a wonderful play. I love it so much. And it's female centered and about life and how we, we think we know our dearest friends, but then, you know, maybe you're a bridesmaid in their wedding and you learned that, you know, nothing about them at all. So yeah, that's my next project that I have on the books.

[00:29:23]Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. And if anyone wants to get in touch with you or follow your artistic journey, do you have any kind of outlet for that? Or even if they wanted to come see that, is there, you know, a way that they can kind of keep in touch?

[00:29:37] Danielle Guy: Yeah. So usually I do announce things on my website, which is danielledirects.com. And that's also a link where if you want to get in touch with me, or ask any questions, there will be, like a little conversation box that will send an email to me.

[00:29:56]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Awesome. How fancy.

[00:29:58] Danielle Guy: I know.

[00:29:59]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, thank you so very much for just being a present here and thank you for being a guest; I really appreciate it. And I'm a firm believer that when you put art out into the world, it makes it a better place. And so I just want to thank you personally for, you know, continuing your passion ever since you were eight. But thank you for continuing to produce art and be brave as an artist. And, I just, I know the world is a better place because of it.  

[00:30:30] Danielle Guy: Thank you, and thank you so much for asking me to be a part of this. This was so great. Thank you for all that you're doing, especially during crazy times like this and all your passion and art.  I have to brag about you. I've been a fan of you since I was five, so...

[00:30:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Awww! Aww, you're sweet. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you again and thank you to everyone who has listened to this, and I hope you feel as inspired as I do. And I just wanted to say that we really appreciate your shares and comments. And we will catch you next time.

[00:31:10] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:31:20] Hey there, Artfully Told listeners. I wanted to share a really amazing resource with you that I think you will find invaluable. This website is called Artists' Edge. The mission of Artists' Edge is to raise the level of business intelligence, life skills, and emotional intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, creativity, and unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Artists' Edge is the education arm of Deborah Russell Coaching, and she is an awesome person who uses all of her business, background and skills to really assist artists become who they want to be. She has a bunch of different courses that you can go through as well as personalized coaching. If you are a wannabe artist that wants to turn their passion into a career, or is an already established artists that wants to take their career to the next level, she is the person to talk to you about this. So please follow the link in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome Rick Wright! Rick is an arts educator, and a fine artist based out of Kansas City, whose work has been exhibited all across the midwest and beyond. He shares about the journey that led him to become a professional artist.

Get in touch with Rick Wright: http://www.rickwrightart.com/ | www.facebook.com/rickwrightart | www.instagram.com/rickwrightart 

Arteza: Arteza makes art supplies affordable to creators with every budget. Art is about the journey. They provide the tools – you steer the way. Click here and use promo code PB8PROMO for 8% off your entire order!

Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | [email protected]

Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview

Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 004 - Rick Wright

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so, so beautiful.

[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello! Welcome back to Artfully Told. Thank you so much for joining us. My name is Lindsey and I am absolutely delighted to have Rick Wright join us today.

[00:00:45] He is a fine artist. His work is really, really exceptional and he is awesome.  I'm just so excited to hear from him today. And so thank you so much, Rick, for, for being a part of this. I really appreciate it.

[00:00:59] Rick Wright: Oh, awesome. Thanks for inviting me. I really wish I could record what you just said there. And I, I should have it on my voicemail or something so that I can play it back to people.

[00:01:08] Lindsey Dinneen: There you go.

[00:01:10] Rick Wright: No--it's, it's it's great to hear your voice. And, I know we've spoken before and, and I've had a chance to, observe, you and, and your dance troupe and get inspired for my own work. So thanks for having me here.

[00:01:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, no, it's absolutely my pleasure. Thank you. And so I would love if you would just be willing to share a little bit about yourself with our listeners and kind of maybe what art you mostly gravitate to or whatever you want.

[00:01:40] Rick Wright: Sure. I guess-- I'll guess we'll back up and talk about how I kind of approached my art career.  I was, I was probably that kid in your elementary school or junior high, that was always doodling little characatures of people. I was a little bit of a class clown, but I was also a pretty small kid. So, I always tended to interject myself into things with a little bit of humor. So I was always drawing characatures of friends and whatnot, and my  journals and on the margins of my papers and everything. So, you know, I kind of progressed through high school knowing that, gosh, I really enjoy, these art classes. I, I'd like to have a career doing something that I enjoy. I kind of grew up with, with a father that was a real blue collar working class guy,  not well-educated, but--but creative in his, in his own way. He was really into building cars and motorcycles and doing custom fabrication of sorts outside of his day job. So I would, I would see him working, you know, eight, 10, 12 hour days, and then he'd come home and work in his garage and, and build stuff. So, even though my passion for artwork was a little different media than his; I think I got a lot of creativity from him.

[00:02:59]When it was time to choose a path for my postsecondary education, I decided I, I'd go into an illustration program at the University of Kansas, partly because, you know, I knew that I loved art and I wanted to have a job that involved art. And to me, the--probably the only thing I, I was familiar with was, okay--I could be a commercial artist, and so I sort of blindly went into that track. But I, I enjoyed my coursework and I learned a lot, but I, I did realize once I finished my undergrad, like, gosh, okay. Now where do I go get a job?

[00:03:40] And, and to my surprise, it was like, well, there are not a lot of, full time, sort of, nine-to-five jobs in illustration, which is what I wanted to do. I didn't, I didn't really go in the path of graphic design. Although a lot of my classmates would kind of dual major, graphics is not something that really interested me. So I, I stuck with the illustration path and, and then, as I graduated, I'm like, gosh, you know, those full time illustration jobs don't really exist, aside from maybe the few that were lucky to work at like a Hallmark Cards or something like that.

[00:04:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure.

[00:04:14] Rick Wright: So, and, and I kind of bounced around a little bit, just trying to figure out, you know, what, what my path was going to look like. And quite honestly, I was probably the personality that I, I liked the structure of having a full time position.  I didn't know the first thing about how do I make ends meet as a freelance artist? You know, you do a, a magazine editorial here and then, maybe a CD or album cover for someone else or t-shirt designs or, or cards.

[00:04:44] And, those were all jobs, all different jobs, but you had to string a whole bunch of them together just to make ends meet. So, yeah, I didn't really know the first thing about how to make that career happen. And I kind of stumbled around for awhile before I ultimately, kind of, took a job. Oh, I was, you know, mid twenties at the time, working at an alternative high school as a paraprofessional of all things, totally unrelated to my, my own interest in art, but I always had a desire to, kind of, work with young people. But, this was more, just a job so I could pay some bills and figure out what I'm going to do next. But I, I really started to enjoy that direction and it got me working with young people-- sort of inspired me to go back to school and pursue an art education path as well. So I did that as a graduate student, became certified to teach and began a teaching career for a number of years. You know, that was something that, it did allow me a little bit of, arts and working with youth at the same time.

[00:05:51] But the creative side of things I was missing out personally. And I think I would spend a lot of time developing lesson plans and focusing on my students, but I was less focused on myself. So that was for about seven years before I realized, gosh, you know what, I'm doing all of this and it's great, don't get me wrong. But I wasn't pursuing my own passions and decided I wanted to step away from teaching full time to kind of pursue my own professional art interests. And, and that's what I did.

[00:06:23] Move up to present day. Once I stepped aside from teaching allowed me to focus more on my, my personal work, which allowed me to sort of pick up where I left off during my undergrad years. You know, I spent a lot of time in drawing and painting courses, and I, and I think one of the things that I really loved about that were the figure drawing or figure painting classes that I had and gesture drawing and, working from life was, was really inspiring to me. So I sort of picked that up again and, you know, I think initially I, I would work a lot off the figure doing quick gestural paintings.

[00:07:04] And a lot of them were sort of classically nude poses or not, not very dynamic in nature. They are more like figures studies. I didn't necessarily know where I was going with that. I just knew that I, I like, I like this. I want to keep doing it and what I didn't know is, okay, how does this then evolve into generating a career in the arts. I'm just doing what I like to do.

[00:07:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.

[00:07:32]Rick Wright: I guess in my mindset, previously I was thinking, gosh, you know, you gotta get a job and do what someone else tells you to do in order to make a living. And then here I am just painting because I like it. And not understanding that, you know what--that's, that's okay. That, that is a path in its own. And, and, the more that I, the more that I did it, I started a form of direction for my work and a body of work that was, was cohesive. So, you know, like I said, it, they started off as more just gestural, quick paintings-- of, you know, more formally posed figures. And I finally got to a point where I felt like, gosh, I had, I have enough work here.

[00:08:17] What can I do to get it shown in the community? And I, I was lucky enough to develop a relationship with a small nonprofit gallery in Kansas City at the time. And proceeds from that gallery went to support a cause that I was passionate about too. So I, I showed a number of paintings in that space and had some success moving some pieces, allow me to do more work. So I think my work started to evolve and, and then I began taking it on the road to some juried art festivals, which, was a real roller coaster ride for, for awhile. I didn't know what to expect. I, you know, I think anybody that jumps into that is kind of in the same boat, you know, you don't know what you, you don't know what you don't know.

[00:09:06] So it took me awhile to learn that. I think my first first show I entered, I had like 12 paintings and they were reasonably large. They're like 30 by 40 inch pieces. And a lot of them were, typical nudes that I had been doing over the last several years, and the first, my first show was in Texas, which is a pretty conservative area. And I'm showing up at this art show with all these nude paintings. I had, I had people that loved them.

[00:09:36] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh course.

[00:09:37] Rick Wright: And thank goodness, and then I had a number of people walking by, and it was not necessarily the most receptive audience. So I know I had, I had some shows where I, I sold several pieces and did very well. Then I had some that I just couldn't seem to sell anything. It opened my eyes to maybe the business of the art world. As well, I had started to move in a direction where I, I liked where the work was going. And then I felt I was starting to feel comfortable putting it out there.

[00:10:12] Maybe after that first show or two, I wasn't super excited, but I felt like the work could speak for itself. And if someone liked it, great. If they didn't, that's their prerogative too. I mean, at least it generates a response, but you know, I started to learn a lot about the business of being an artist and what you gotta do to make ends meet without, without watering down your work, I guess, or without catering your work just to the audience.

[00:10:43] And, you know, I think that made me think about some things like the scale of my work. Like I said, the first few shows I did the pieces were all fairly large, 30 by 40 inches. And I think they were well priced, but I think they were priced well out of someone's reach that might have an interest in my work, but was just not in a position where they could spend a lot of money on a large piece, and they would like something smaller. So I, I felt like I learned that I needed to diversify my offerings out there. You know, maybe I can do some smaller works or, maybe I'll make prints of some pieces.

[00:11:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. So, I'm just curious, you, you mentioned talking about the price point, which I think is a big thing, because like you said, everyone has kind of different budgets and, and I love the way that you adapted to that. You know, you didn't just say, "Well, it's not for everyone," but you thought about ways that, you know, you could make it a little bit more accessible to someone who, who just doesn't have the same budget. So I love that, but I'm curious: how, how do you price your art? Because I know that's a thing that a lot of artists struggle with, is putting a value to, you know, essentially your lifetime of experience, which is, which has led you to this, and then of course, the hours and hours you put into creating it, like, how do you go about that?

[00:12:11] Rick Wright: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I wish there was an idiot's guide to it. I think it's probably something that every visual artist I've run into has had the same problem with. And, oh gosh. I think I prob--I probably undervalued myself for a number of years. You could ask my wife now, and she could still say you still do that because, you know, I grew up within a certain economic class with, you know, a blue collar family and not a lot of means. So just because I can create something, I just, I have a hard time thinking that I should put this big, old price tag on it.

[00:12:52] So, the first time that I had a show that I had to price my work, I just kind of like, I thought, gosh, you know, how many, how many hours do I think it took me to do this? And what, what is my time worth? I probably didn't think too much about the materials I had in it. And I certainly didn't think about, gosh, you know, I've gone to school for four, six, eight years, training myself how to do this. I didn't, I didn't value that in my initial price points, but as I've, as I've moved on over the years, you know, you're absolutely right--like full disclosure--I'm 46 right now, and seriously, working in the arts for, you know, over 20 years. So, you know, that that experience should have some value and it should impact the price of your work.

[00:13:44]So certainly the work that I was doing at age 22 is much different then than it is now. You know, I, I feel like I can command a little bit of a premium for my experience, but I was, I was talking with one of my former illustration professors a few weeks ago and I, I was saying, gosh, you know, there have been periods in my career where, I've just not done any fresh paintings for months at a time. And even there was a stent for maybe a couple years--I just, I just wasn't really, inspired to do some new, fresh work, but I still feel like when I did pick the brush back up, I had grown as an artist, partly because of my life experience and my perspective that I could, I could reflect back on my own work and realize, gosh, this is what I was doing then, and I've grown as a person. And even though I may not have physically been using a brush more to grow, I could translate my personal growth onto a canvas after that amount of time. So I felt like my new, my newer work, you know, after that hiatus was better, even though I hadn't necessarily been practicing it so much.

[00:15:00]Lindsey Dinneen: So I know for you, in particular, one of the things that I personally admire so much about your art-- I love the fact that you highlight other artists in your work in other art forms--I've seen dancers and aerialists...

[00:15:14] Rick Wright: Yeah. Well, I think, you know, my, my work has really been focused on the figure and, you know, I, as I spoke before, you know, those figures are very static initially, but I I've, I've really become inspired by a lot of performers that have a lot of physicality involved in the work that they do. And, you know, those may, may be, dancers, whether it's jazz or pop or ballet or salsa. I don't especially have a great knowledge of dance, but I do have of the human form and I, and I see what those performers are doing with their bodies and being impressed by the physicality of, of what they're pulling off in such a graceful way that, you know. That's, that's inspired me to create a sense of movement and strength and grace and beauty, and my forms, I think a little bit of my work is art imitating art, and I classify my models or performers as artists themselves. And I just, I want to capture what they do in my own way, right, in my media, I try, I'm trying to get my work to be more collaborative with other artists that are doing things that I don't do.  So I think there's, there's a kind of a strength in numbers, you know, all, all of us creatives have to stick together in some ways. So, I'm inspired by those performing artists that are doing something that I, I can't do.

[00:16:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Well, and you know, ditto, you know, it was the same for us. So looking at your work going, "Oh my gosh, it's amazing. And I can't do it, but I love to look," you know, I love appreciating it.

[00:17:04] Rick Wright: Yeah. Well, and it's, it's allowed me to have conversations too, that I'm fairly ignorant of some of the minutia that's involved in years of training one's body to perform like that. So, you know, I can have conversations with people about, gosh, you know, what, what is it you're doing here?And, and dancers make shapes with their bodies. And, you know, so I, I'm curious about the shapes that they're making and how does that impact the shapes and the forms that I'm trying to develop on a canvas as well?

[00:17:42] There's a balloon artist here in Kansas City who is pretty amazing visually. And I've had the opportunity to photograph her at some various venues. And I'm just amazed by the things she's able to do with balloons, you know, and, and, and creating them into, to outfits and the things that she does with them. It's so it's, it's really visually inspiring to me. And I'd love to see that translated onto a canvas. So, I've started a conversation and dialogue there, so that's just where the direction my work's gone.

[00:18:14] And I gotta say, it's not, it's not something that I, I sought out. It just started to evolve and you know, I'm, and I'm not trying to drive it in a particular direction. I want it to go wherever it goes and that's difficult. I mean, I think we all would like to know with some certainty what the future holds, and I think part of being an artist is just kind of embracing the journey and going where it takes you. You know, on one hand, you've got to have a plan, but your plan also needs to be flexible enough that it can go wherever it needs to.

[00:18:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, I have to say on behalf of a dancer, and I'm pretty sure this would go to other movement based art forms as well that you've captured, I have to say personally that one of the things that I so appreciate about your particular work-- when you paint dancers and aerialists and other types of moving-based performers, is that you are very diligent about capturing it correctly. And what I mean by that is we've just observed over the years-- like in a lot of our work, there's a, maybe you could call it  a more whimsical or abstract approach, and sometimes as a dancer, you look at it and you go, "Well, that's not actually how that works or we can't physically make that shape because that's not how our, you know, and so I've always really appreciated your attention to detail. And so when you do choose to paint, somebody like that, that you understand, like the body mechanics behind that, so thank you on behalf of all the dancers for that.

[00:19:56] Rick Wright: Well, that's a huge compliment coming from a performer like yourself because I really enjoy it when another artist can see my work and appreciate something that maybe just the casual observer doesn't pick up on. So I like to work in a way that is thoughtful and intelligent, what I'm trying to do. And, so I appreciate that you see things in my work of dancers that I guess I just, I appreciate knowing that I'm doing something right there.

[00:20:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, you definitely are. Well, I have a couple of questions that I like to ask my guests, if that's okay with you.

[00:20:38] Rick Wright: Sure. Absolutely.

[00:20:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:20:46] Rick Wright: You know, I, I, I feel like to me, you know, it, it's an outlet and an exploration first and foremost, and I think if we're lucky it becomes an end product, but I don't know that that is necessarily the most important. I think there is, there is value in the exploration that, that just happens with all things creative, whether it's dance or it's paint or it's clay. It's about communicating, it's, it's communicating with different materials or in different ways than the verbal or auditory that we're used to. I, I think it's, you know, it's a little bit of your, your soul, you know, uncovering your soul, whether you realize it or not. I think it's about just exposing your, your true self.

[00:21:42] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that and I really appreciate what you said, and I haven't heard this yet is, that the, the end product doesn't necessarily matter. That there's a lot of value even in the process. I think that that is incredibly insightful and something to really take to heart because you're right. I mean, it's, it's wonderful when something emerges from it that you go, "Oh yeah, I like that. I'm proud of that." But you know, there's still value in that creation process, regardless of where it goes.

[00:22:16]Rick Wright: Right. And what, and when something emerges and you're like, you're, you're proud of that. And it may have emerged in a different direction than you intended, and then, but you gotta be able to recognize, gosh, this, this is different, but I like what's happening there. And I think being able to have the flexibility to see that, you know, allow the journey to happen and go where it may.  And the reality is you've got to practice, you've got to fail, and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what those failures look like, but you learn from those mistakes and you grow from them.

[00:22:49] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm going to misquote it because I don't remember exactly, but I remember an artist talking about how at the beginning you have to get used to the fact that a lot of what you make-- especially if you're trying to make a career out of art-- isn't going to be good. It just isn't because you just don't have the experience that a more mature artist has, and so his point was just keep creating, creating, creating, because you'll get there. Be patient for that journey because it takes time and it's okay if you don't like everything you produce, that's not the end goal here.

[00:23:25] Rick Wright: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I gotta tell myself that all the time, you know, I'm looking for that end goal from time to time. And you gotta tell yourself to back off on it and just let the work happen and grow.

[00:23:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.

[00:23:41] Rick Wright: On the business end of things, like I've got to do this, and then this number of shows and I have to sell this many pieces, but the more important thing that I just gotta tell myself is just go to your studio and paint, yeah, I think more, more, more.

[00:23:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:24:03] Rick Wright: You know, I think there's some responsibilities that the artists have. I think honesty and, personal, personal perspectives. I think there's things that happen in this world that we need artists, creatives, performers to react to, to communicate about, guide, challenge. I think that's one of the more important jobs right now. There are brilliant, passionate artists out there that are that are making a difference. And I think that's super important. And I'll be honest that I don't necessarily think my own work  is challenging any norms in society, per se, but I think those that are out there doing that really have my, my respect and I, I value that we all have a duty just to be honest with ourselves and you don't have to put up a front, you know, just be, be the person you are, do the work that you want to do and put it out there.

[00:25:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, don't be afraid. And I don't want to gloss over that because that's a hard one.

[00:25:08]Rick Wright:  You can choose how much of yourself to put out there. I mean maybe you're a little bit conservative by nature and that's fine, but you know, just those, those little, little pieces of truth are, are valuable.

[00:25:20]Lindsey Dinneen: Okay! And then my last question, and I can define it a little bit, but so the question is, do you think art should be inclusive or exclusive? And those words can mean a few different things. So I'll just define them how I'm intending. So, exclusive referring to, the artist kind of creates something, puts it out in the world and the audience or the viewer or whatever doesn't necessarily have context for it. So they might not know even necessarily, like, the title of the piece, or what inspired it, or, you know, et cetera--versus inclusive, meaning the artist gives that context. So maybe it's what inspired them, or what the piece is about-- does that make sense?

[00:26:07] Rick Wright: Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I mean, I think there's some, I think there's some value in both. What I value within my own work is--so someone who finds a piece that they, they fall in love with it for their own reasons, whether they knew the artist's intention or not. I mean, I think there's value in having a conversation with a piece that's on their own terms and not necessarily, "What was the artist's intention or what's the title of this?" Or, or "Why was it made or, or what is it about?" I mean, I think I like that anybody can have a conversation on their own terms with a particular piece and find what they, how they react to it. And, I get it. If somebody looks at, one of my painting's like, "I don't get it, I'm done with it. And I'm just going to walk away."

[00:26:57] I mean, that's their own terms as well, and I felt that way too about walking through an art museum and, encountering some pieces like, you know, I just don't get it. There's a little plaque on the wall. It tells me a little bit, but you know what, ultimately, not so much interested, but I've also found there have been pieces like that. And then I've had some interaction with someone else or an art history class, or I've educated myself about it further. And then I'm like, you know, I, I really didn't like this so much to start off with, but now that I have the backstory, I find it more intriguing. Maybe it's, maybe it's not the aesthetic that I was looking for, but I have a better appreciation of it.

[00:27:38] So,  I think there's value in both inclusivity and exclusivity.  I am a big, advocate of art being all inclusive and whatever that looks like. So I think everybody can have a reaction to pieces.  I'm not really great about communicating about my own work. So if someone else can find something that they love about it, then that's important to me because I'm not always certain what it is that I really like about a particular piece that I'm putting out there. It's, you know, it just, it happened and it's there and it's, it's up to someone else to decide how they want to react to it.

[00:28:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, thank you again, just so much, Rick, for joining us today. And if there's anyone who wants to maybe check out your work or get in contact with you, is there a way that they can do that?

[00:28:34] Rick Wright: Sure, so I have a presence on social media, whether it's Instagram or Facebook, it's Rick Wright Art. Wright is W R I G H T. I also have a website, rickwrightart.com. So feel free to check me out there, click on some links, shoot me a message or something. I try to exhibit, you know, locally around Kansas City and regionally as well. So, and I'm always, I'm always happy to talk shop with other people, other creatives in the community as well.

[00:29:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Thank you. Yeah, definitely at the very least take some time to check out his artwork because it is beautiful. And I just want to say, Rick, you know, again, personally, I've gotten to see some of your artwork and experience it. And I just, I just want to say thank you for being an artist and sharing your art. I truly believe that when you're brave enough to do so, you, you make the world a better, more beautiful place. And so I just want to say thank you, for sharing what you do and what you love with the world. I know I appreciate it.

[00:29:38] Rick Wright: Oh, well, thank you very much. It was a pleasure to be here today and, and I, I value what you do and I look forward to us crossing paths again and putting our art out there in the community.

[00:29:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, thanks everyone so much for tuning in today, and we will catch you next time.

[00:29:59] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:30:10] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you a little bit about one of my very favorite resources for artists. It's a website called Arteza. They have incredible products, but what makes this company really unique is that they have supplies that are affordable to creators with every budget. So whether you're just starting out, or dabbli n g , or you do have that budget available to you, they do have options for every budget level. They provide the tools, but you steer the way. Literally you can access hundreds of thousands of high quality, unique products through their website. And right now they are offering a promo code to receive 8% off of any purchase and you can access the link and the promo code in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome Krista Eyler! Krista hails from Kansas City, and shares her stories about seeing several musicals growing up that inspired her to become the singer/songwriter/actress/producer she is now! 

Links to get in touch with Krista Eyler: https://www.facebook.com/sharpwomen2/ | https://www.sharpwomen.org/ | https://www.facebook.com/funkymama

Bluprint: More than 13 million enthusiasts - from artists to quilters and beyond - make Bluprint their home for binge-worthy on-demand content, access to the world’s top experts and curated supplies, all served up in a fun-loving creative community. Click here and use promo code 50OFF2 for 50% off all courses!

Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | [email protected]

Schedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 003: Krista Eyler

Lindsey Dinneen: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:06] Krista Eyler: [00:00:06] I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:12] Roman: [00:00:12] All I can do is put my heart in to the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: [00:00:15] It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever, really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: [00:00:23] Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful.

[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:00:31] Hello everyone. Welcome to Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey, and I am so excited to have a very special guest on our show today. Her name is Krista Eyler, and she is an extraordinary woman. She has done so much for the arts, not only in Kansas. City, but her reach is extending far beyond. She has co-written, co-produced her own musical, which was incredible. And I'm saying that cause I got to see it and I just love it. It's so charming. But she is constantly creating and innovating and bringing so much joy to the world. So I am so excited, Krista, that you're here. Thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:01:14] Krista Eyler: [00:01:14] Thank you, Lindsey, and thank you for those kind words. That was very sweet way to start my day.

[00:01:19] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:01:19] Of course. Of course. So Krista, do you mind just sharing a little bit about who you are and what you're up to these days and just?

[00:01:28] Krista Eyler: [00:01:28] Sure, you know, it's funny to kind of sum up when someone says, you know, what do you do? Hard question to answer when, you know, at the age I am--43--you say, what do you, what do you do, Krista? Now there are things you get paid for and then there are things that you do. And I think as an artist, we all have to do a lot of things.

[00:01:54] Now what I would say I am--I'm a mom, first, of two teenage boys. I'm a wife. I am a composer and an actress. And, I like to write. I mean, I would probably classify myself as a singer before anything else, but you see, it's hard to, it's hard to sum up, so I like to say that I'm a composer, actress, singer, mom, wife... How's that?

[00:02:21] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:02:21] It's perfect. I love it.  Yeah, and so just tell us, a little bit about the different musicals. I know, obviously you got to produce one. What was that, two years ago now? Oh my gosh.

[00:02:32] Krista Eyler: [00:02:32] Well, it was just, actually last summer. You mentioned--the musical's called "Overture," and it was about the 1953 season of the Kansas City Philharmonic. And the Philharmonic was kind of the, you know, the father of our current, Kansas City Symphony. So we had the great pleasure of taking 19 Kansas City people to the New York Musical Festival last summer. We were accepted as one of the 10 full-length productions and we won Best of Fest Production there. We won the Audience Choice Award. There are two kind of big festival awards and we won one of them and we had quite an adventure. It was an extraordinary, from start to finish, kind of three year endeavor.

[00:03:20] And, my co-writer, Barb Nichols, she's also a local Kansas City director, and she and I have known each other for over 20 years. So our, our business partnership is very easy and we're also good friends. And, so just this last--after we got back from New York, we had an opportunity to buy a building on Southwest Boulevard, and we turned it into rehearsal studios. So we have a studio now called Sharp Women's Studios. That's the name of our LLC, and we're down on the Boulevard and this whole quarantine stuff--has messed up our entire plan. I know that is a small, small thing when there are so many people who have been suffering, truly suffering in both their physical health, emotional health, and their financial health. So I'm very grateful that we have a space. We've had a safe space to go and build things and have meetings and have social distancing. So we're  very, very fortunate. I feel very fortunate, to be in the position that I am when I know a lot of other artists have, it's so much harder than I do.

[00:04:25]Lindsey Dinneen: [00:04:25] Sure. Yeah, it's a challenge for everybody, but you have a really positive outlook on it, but it is difficult.

[00:04:32]Krista Eyler: [00:04:32] My brain likes to be busy all the time. I really honestly don't like to rest a lot. My battery does kind of recharging. So, my battery wants to go. And so when I have gigs canceled, or acting gigs postponed or flat out canceled, it's really, it's a blow, you know. It's one of those: I worked for that part and I got that part and now it's gone.

[00:04:57] And I think artists across our city are feeling exactly the same thing cause their gig has been canceled. Their side gigs have been canceled. So what do you do when your gig has been canceled? Your side gig's canceled. That's hard. It's a difficult time that we are dealing with, but you know, art survives and art goes on because if you're an artist, you just keep making stuff.

[00:05:22] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:05:22] Yeah, it's compulsory. You have to, yeah. Well, thank you for that perspective. I would just love to hear stories that you have about encounters with art. Something maybe that kind of stood out to you that made an impact on you as a person or on your work.

[00:05:41]Krista Eyler: [00:05:41] I will just speak from my experience. No, my background was in television journalism. I was a news reporter for five years with Channel Nine News here in Kansas City, and before that I was a reporter in Topeka, and journalism was kind of my track.

[00:05:55] I had always been a singer from the time I was four years old in church, and I've always sung, always played guitar and piano, and so, but I just took a different career path. So now, now that I'm doing full time acting and writing and performing, it's quite a different, quite a different world.

[00:06:15]I don't really have a process of creating it. Like I said, my brain is always working. And so I feel like an idea will come. Usually it's a musical idea, something for the stage. And I'll, Barb and I'll sit down and we'll just kind of flesh the idea out as much as we can to see if it's worth doing.

[00:06:37] And we, one of the shaping memories I had was: In 1983 I think it was, Yul Brynner came through Kansas City in a touring company of "The King and I," and it was down at The Midland. And if you've ever been to the Midland Theater, it's a more intimate theater, but it's very steep. It has lots of levels.

[00:07:00] And my mom had kind of splurged to buy a tickets for my brother and I, and for my mom to go see "The King and I." And so we had really good seats and I remember so much red in the room and how the seats felt. And I remember there he was--like, he came out on stage and stopped the show. And, it's one of those very big kind of very much a sense memory for me that it was magical, you know, theater that came very magical for me.

[00:07:31] Another one of those moments that I had was where I saw, Ted Neeley and Carl Anderson in "Jesus Christ Superstar." And they're the ones that you see in the movie, if you're not familiar with the show, but they were the originals, for the movie, and then spent their careers touring with "Jesus Christ Superstar."

[00:07:49] I have never quite experienced a show that was stopped twice because of applause.  I mean, these two men in their prime --I got to see them in their prime. Carl Anderson is now deceased and Ted Neeley's in his seventies. But it was extraordinary, the power of something on stage to affect my emotions so deeply.

[00:08:09] And it's one of those memories I have that I can access any time. And it just expresses to me the magic of musical theater because that's--that's my greatest love is musical theater. And another memory: I got to see Bernadette Peters in "Gypsy" on Broadway. My mom and I went and, her little, she's a tiny little person and she's just the tiniest little China doll of a person.

[00:08:37]And as soon as people heard her voice from the back of the house, she walked through the house where the, you know, the "Sing Out, Louise," everybody stood up and stopped the show for a good three minutes applauding her. They did the same thing after she did "Rose's Turn" and I could, I mean, I could barely contain myself. It was just one of those things where you feel like you're, you're crying and you're jumping out of your skin, and everything about it is so perfect. And I, I've learned--watching her, she uses every little bit of that little body, from the top of her head to her toes, to convey emotion. And just so physical.

[00:09:11] I really, there's, those are some very specific memories for me, both as a writer and an actress to go use your full instrument, whether it is, singing or acting or writing, you try to use your full instrument. When I'm writing, I sometimes tell myself like, "What else? You know, what else can I do to this? What else does this song need? What is it missing?" Or I'll record it all, put it in my phone so I can listen to it in my car speakers, and then I go, "Oh, that's what's missing." There's a string section missing, or I should have cymbals there, or, you know, it's just--I feel like writing and composing--I mean, you're a dancer, you know, it's a full body experience.

[00:09:51] Whether you're a dancer or not, but I can describe it as that--anything I do when I'm creating, it's kind of a full body mind, body, spirit experience.

[00:10:02]Lindsey Dinneen: [00:10:02] I love that. And I love the idea of what else, what else can there be to make it even more robust, more inspirational, more touching? I love that. What a great perspective on...

[00:10:14] Krista Eyler: [00:10:14] I hope so. You know, I have my favorite instruments that make me either have goosebumps or tear up or, you know, music can break your heart. And when we say that in "Overture," because it's true, your heart, because if you put an oboe with a cello and a piano and a French horn, I mean those are the break-your-heart instruments: gorgeous.

[00:10:36] Put them in a layer. Then it just gives such--it's like eating an awesome piece of cake. It's just so pleasurable that your mind, a body--it's just like all the endorphins come, and when... I think I had a moment when I wrote something, and you know when you write music and you have to listen to it over and over and over and over again, which gets very laborious--but I remember a song came on that I wrote, and it didn't register as my, my song. It was just a song that was on, and I remember getting goosebumps because of the chord formations and I was like, well, all right, let's keep it.

[00:11:18] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:11:18] Yeah.

[00:11:20]Krista Eyler: [00:11:20] I'm the harshest critic, of course. I'm, I'm pretty hard on myself, which I probably shouldn't be, but I am.

[00:11:29] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:11:29] Every artist I think has that.

[00:11:31] Krista Eyler: [00:11:31] I think artists are, I mean, I think we're sensitive and I think we're hard on ourselves. And I think being the age I am, it's given me some perspective of--give yourself some grace--and I never think I'm going to be the best at something and I probably never will be the best at something, but I'm going to do my best whatever I'm doing because there's always going to be something, someone with a different cool idea that you didn't think of, or there'll be able to do something cool that you didn't, aren't able to do. And I think I've been able to accept that more. In the last five, six years to stop being so competitive in art and just appreciate and affirm in other people what they're doing.

[00:12:12] I mean, I learned from going, "Oh, that was a great layering of sound, or oh my gosh, did you hear how she's saying that?" I'm trying to be better about building other people up , making a point to note it. "Yeah, that's really good," because I mean, I like to be encouraged. I imagine other people like to be encouraged too.

[00:12:33] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:12:33] Oh, yeah, absolutely. Did that come about, do you think, in more of a director role? I mean, is that something that kind of developed being in a leadership position?

[00:12:42] Krista Eyler: [00:12:42] I just think I wanted to stop being so prideful about art. You know, I think we've all met artists who are arrogant, and we've met artists who are very humble, and I want to be more like the humble artists who, if there's something that I do that it touches somebody else or makes them have a moment of joy or takes them out of their normal, normal thought patterns into something really cool, then, I want to do that. But I want to do it in a way that's open to other artists, and is friendly to other artists and kind of just affirms what's good and other artists, because there's so much competition. And I was so, you know--acting is so competitive. I mean, dance is competitive. Any art form, it's competitive. Yeah, and just like my journalism jobs were competitive, you know, I had to be competitive.  I would never call myself laid back. I can be a pretty intense person when I'm working on a project. but hopefully I'm a nice person.

[00:13:45]Lindsey Dinneen: [00:13:45] And so what was the experience like? I mean, I am a little biased-- I have had the wonderful experience of seeing "Overture" actually a couple times. You kind of spearheaded this whole project from start to finish in so many aspects and then you starred in it. What was it like when you took your final bow at that, the first time that you got to perform the entire thing ? What was that like?

[00:14:10]Krista Eyler: [00:14:10] It was very special. I mean, when you worked so hard on something and we had so much help fundraising, helping us fundraise, because musicals are freaking expensive. We had so much help. And when you're standing out there and people are appreciating, or they've been touched by something that you've done--it's, it's, it's a very strange but wonderful feeling. I remember walking out on stage and it was funny -- not funny--it was a bit panicky. It was, we were at Fringe and we were opening the show, I think might've been the first show-- all the mics went out. We had no sound, no sound. And I remember I'm and I was just about to go on and I have the opening song in "Overture" and it really just, there's a chord roll, and then I sing and that's it.

[00:15:02] And I'm a woman of faith and I remember feeling very uptight for about 30 seconds cause we were, we were only at like, we were at places, we were holding. And, I remember having a moment of, "Oh my gosh, we have no mics. We have no mics for the orchestra, we have no mics for people." And then I went, "Nope." I went, "Okay, Jesus. I see. I see. And I'm going to sing without a mic. And all the other people are going to sing without a mic because you've allowed me to train to have a bigger voice and don't need a mic."

[00:15:33] So I, I turned from panic to--we're just gonna do this. We're just gonna do this. And everybody else, you know, we had an amazing team and everybody else was like, yup, that's what we're doing. I mean, I think you lead by example by working harder than everyone else, or as hard as anyone else. I kind of like to work harder or try and just not complain.

[00:16:03] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:16:03] That's a hard one. Yeah.

[00:16:05] Krista Eyler: [00:16:05] Especially like in New York where we were running on zero sleep, changing the show almost every day, managing, you know, driving back and forth to Brooklyn, unloading every single day. It was physically exhausting and mentally exhausting. You just gotta dig deep. Well, you gotta dig down and just do it and try not to be a jerk to the people.

[00:16:31] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:16:31] Right. Right. Yeah!

[00:16:32] Krista Eyler: [00:16:32] It was pretty cool to open in New York, I was sitting on the side of the stage at The Signature Theatre, and we were at places and I looked around, you know, I looked across the stage and I saw my friends and I looked at the pit. You know, my brother was our accompanist and all my friends, all my friends were there. Oh, and so I looked, it was like--we're in New York on 42nd Street and we're about to open a show that I wrote and how fun is this? You know? That was a special--that's a moment I can't replicate ever in my life. Yeah. It's one of those where you, I think it's rare when you get to know that that's one of those moments in your life that you're going to look back on and when you recognize it and give thanks for it. And I remember just sitting there giving thanks for it going, "This is crazy. How did I get here?" And hearing them on the stage left of The Signature Theatre stage about to go sing my songs--it was so, it was surreal and marvelous.

[00:17:30]Lindsey Dinneen: [00:17:30] There couldn't be anything like that moment. That is, that is wonderful.

[00:17:35] Krista Eyler: [00:17:35] No, and I'll never have another one like it probably in my life. So when you have those moments, it's good to notice it. There's a line, and I, I won't, I promise I won't curse on your podcast.  There's a line in my favorite movie from "The Color Purple" that says, "I think it P I S S E S God off if you walk by the color purple and you don't notice it," and I feel that way very much in my life. If you don't notice those small moments of brilliant color, then I think you're not being grateful for what you have. And I'm trying to be grateful for those small and big moments.

[00:18:12] Especially now, these last few months have been really hard, and it's, I think it's very hard to keep a positive attitude. You know, I've had days where I've cried, days where I've been happy. it's just, this is unprecedented time for artists especially, and everybody is just trying to find the happy where they can.

[00:18:32] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:18:32] Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely agree. I love that. Well, I have a couple of questions that I like to ask my guests, if that's okay. So how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:18:48] Krista Eyler: [00:18:48] What is art to me? I think it's making something from nothing. And no, there's a  song called "Finishing the Hat," and it talks about that creation of, you know--I made a hat where there never was a hat, and art to me is really just that. And I'm glad I rhymed those two lines. It's making something from nothing that hopefully will make somebody else feel something very important or have a very visceral, emotional response. I mean, everything I write musically is to reach someone else, is to entertain someone else, is to give, you know, that pleasure in your ears from some really great music and singing.

[00:19:38]That's, that's kind of how I see art. You know what? I'm not a scholar of art. I'm not a scholar of dance. I'm not a scholar of music theory. I'm basically not a scholar of anything except the raising my children, but when it comes to art, I just, I just really feel great satisfaction when you make something that wasn't there before and then it's there, then you've brought it into existence and then you wonder why it was not there before.

[00:20:11] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:20:11] I love that. Because you hadn't created it yet, I guess!

[00:20:17] Krista Eyler: [00:20:17] I hadn't created it. Every once in a while I'll wake up with a song in my head. And I'll go, "What is that song?" I was like, "I know that song. What is that song?" Then I went, "Oh, I haven't written it yet. Oh, I haven't written that song yet." That's happened to me several times.

[00:20:33]Lindsey Dinneen: [00:20:33] That is awesome.

[00:20:34] Krista Eyler: [00:20:34] Weird, isn't it?

[00:20:35] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:20:35] No, I love it. It doesn't happen to me, but, but I love it. Okay, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:20:47] Krista Eyler: [00:20:47] I think artists help people in the world, see things in a different way. I think. I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life. I mean, what would we do without, you know, the great playwrights who have shown us corners of the world that I will never see or make music from different countries that I, I didn't grow up in that tradition, so I would never have heard it. I mean, an artist's job is to enrich life for others. I don't, I mean, I inherently, I think the creation of art is kind of selfish because we have to, it comes from our brain, comes from our hand.

[00:21:31] We're very happy or sad with it. But I really think art is, for me, it's so cliche, but art is for everyone and artists need to create for people out in the world who are non-artists, so they can see a different perspective of the world--they can hear something, see something, do something different that will be better and change, possibly even change your mind and then change your, how you operate in your daily life. I mean, that is a profoundly important thing that art can do, is change how people think. And I mean, that's powerful. It's very powerful. Yeah.

[00:22:08] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:22:08] Yeah. No, it absolutely is. Okay. I love that answer. Okay. And, my last question is, I'll explain the words I'm going to use because it's--might not be very clear--but do you think, just in your own personal opinion, do you think that art should be exclusive or inclusive? And those words I know are a little odd to use, but I'll just define that a little bit more. So exclusive being, sort of, the artist creates something, puts it out there and then doesn't give a whole lot of description. Versus inclusive, being more like, can you tell us your inspiration behind it or what the title or whatever. How do you feel about that?

[00:22:48] Krista Eyler: [00:22:48] I always prefer things that are inclusive. You know, an artist can create something and put a painting up on a wall and it has deep, deep significance, but as just a lay person in society, if I walk by and all I see is red--then I would really like to be connected to a piece if you would explain it to me. I mean, I think that's the selfish part of art as well--"I'm not going to explain myself."

[00:23:14] I was like, "Well, that's kinda dumb. Why would you not explain it to me? So I love it as much as you do." I think that's also an artist personality. I think every art is different, and if an artist is afraid of what someone might say of their work, then they'll just say, "I don't need to explain it to you. It is what it is." And I think I agree with some of that. Like when I write music, I don't want someone to come along and change it cause that's what was in my head, but I certainly will try to explain it. If someone said, "I don't understand why that--that sounds weird--why is that there?" And I said, "Well, it kind of goes along with what's being sung."

[00:23:50] I will always go on the side of more communication and more arts understanding because, especially I think in the Midwest, if you--there are so many inner circles, there are inner circles and inside jokes with theater and musical theater and plays and dance references and art references, and if you're not included in that--then I think art's a real turnoff.

[00:24:13] You know, with dance, I will admit my complete lack of knowledge. I mean, I love, I love to tap dance, but I'm, I don't know anything about ballet. I mean, I know nothing about the greats other than what I've read or picked up on my own. I know Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater is my favorite dance troupe in the whole entire world because I've gotten to experience their work over and over and over watching it. And I also had some explanation behind it, so I knew what was going on. Like with a lot of ballet, I don't know what's going on with opera. I don't know what is happening. I, my brain just goes, "Okay, I'm done."

[00:24:53] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:24:53] Sure.

[00:24:54] Krista Eyler: [00:24:54] I will try and try and try to have patience and focus, but if it's not explained to me, then I have no clue, which leads to no interest.

[00:25:03] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:25:03] Right.

[00:25:03] Krista Eyler: [00:25:03] So I think art should be inclusive--as inclusive as possible. The more understanding someone can bring to their work, the more I will be drawn to it. I think that's just me though. I mean, a lot of people are just like, "Well, it's my art and I'll do what I want and take it."

[00:25:22]Lindsey Dinneen: [00:25:22] Well, that's excellent. Thank you so much. I just love your perspective. And you know, just on a personal note, cause again, I've, I've had the pleasure of watching your work ,and I just wanna say thank you so much for creating art because, as someone who's been on the receiving end of it, I have to say that I've been very inspired and you've brought a lot of joy to your audiences, so thank you for that.

[00:25:47] Krista Eyler: [00:25:47] I appreciate those kind words that, you know, I don't write complicated things. I hopefully write things that reach people in an emotional way that's positive and hopeful --even, you know, even when there is pain, I like to talk about, you know, redemption after the pain. So, it's been a pleasure talking with you, Lindsey.

[00:26:08] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:26:08] Yeah. Well, and, okay, so, is there a way that we can connect with you? Do you have any future projects coming up you'd like to tell us about?

[00:26:18] Krista Eyler: [00:26:18] I do, and I have written, we finished our second musical called "The Sparkletones" inspired by--it takes place in 1969, Kansas. It's a singing group of four women who kind of gets stuck in a diner, and a lot changes in all of their lives in one night. And the story was inspired by my mom who's sang in a Sweet Adelines Group in Kansas in the sixties and she kept in touch with her other Sparkletones. People threw a round-robin letter series, which is one person writes a letter to the second person, the second person, right, puts their letter in, and it kind of goes around, and they've been doing that for over 40 years. So, I kind of too--inspired by her story and the letters and got to work on a musical, and we're going to debut it next March at the Johnson County Arts and Heritage Center.

[00:27:09] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:27:09] Oh, that's so exciting. Awesome.

[00:27:12] Krista Eyler: [00:27:12] I'm in the show this time. I'm not a lead. So that takes the pressure off me to be involved. We, we have a very strong cast and creative team and it's going to be a great show. It's going to be fun.

[00:27:27] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:27:27] That is exciting. And so if people want to, kind of keep up with that and keep up with some of your other work, because I know you, again, you're multifaceted, where can they connect with you.

[00:27:38] Krista Eyler: [00:27:38] They can find me on Facebook, just under my name, Krista Eyler, or through Sharp Women Studios. All of that's on Facebook. We also have a website called sharpwomen.org, so I'm, I'm easy to find.

[00:27:59] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:27:59] Excellent. Okay, well, perfect. Well, thank you again so much, Krista. I really appreciate your perspective.  And again, on behalf of myself because I've gotten to experience it--but on behalf of everyone who's gotten to experience your art, I do want to say thank you because I do think that there's a lot of value, in creating art and sharing it.

[00:28:20]Krista Eyler: [00:28:20] Thank you for having me.

[00:28:21] Lindsey Dinneen: [00:28:21] All right, well, have an amazing day and thank you to everyone who has listened to this episode, and we will catch you next time.

[00:28:37] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much and I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:28:46]Hey Artfully Told listeners, I'm excited to share with you about Bluprint, which is the most amazing website for artists and makers of all levels. Bluprint lets you dig into anything you've ever daydreamed about doing like dance, fitness, yoga, art, and home decorating, plus all the arts and crafts categories you know and love. More than 13 million enthusiasts, from artists to quilters and beyond, make Bluprint their home for binge-worthy, on-demand content, access to the world's top experts, and curated supplies all served up in a fun, loving, creative community. Super cool. And even better--currently, they're offering 50% off their classes. So if you are interested in taking advantage of that--learning a new skill, having an amazing time working with experts in their fields--you will love to take advantage of this offer. And you'll just click on the link in my comments and my show notes and you'll be rocking and rolling, and we will catch you next time. 

Intro & Outro Music Credits:

Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeod