Artfully Told

In this episode, I welcome Shari Augustine! She is a professional ballet and modern dancer, competitive ballroom dancer and teacher, piano instructor, and yoga instructor. She has recently pivoted to include another art form in her repertoire, and she shares about her various artistic endeavors in this episode. 

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Episode 32 - Shari Augustine

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.

[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses, and that you just experiences as so beautiful.

[00:00:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so very thrilled to have as my guest today, the absolutely lovely Shari Augustine. She is a dancer, a pianist, a yoga instructor, a dance instructor, a ballroom dancer--I could go on and on and on. And most recently has been really deep diving into another area of art, which is sewing. And I'm just so excited because Shari just has such a multitude of interaction with art all the time and is very passionate about it. So thank you so much for being here, Shari.

[00:01:17] Shari Augustine: You're welcome. It's my pleasure.

[00:01:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, I would love if you wouldn't mind sharing with us just a little bit about maybe, you know, yourself and kind of how you got started in all of this.

[00:01:31] Shari Augustine: Well, I think I've always wanted to dance. I remember growing up, the neighbor girl that I rode the bus with, she--one day a week, she didn't ride the bus because she stayed in town to take a ballet class. And I was always so envious of that. I didn't take ballet when I was growing up. My first ballet class was when I was 28 years old, so I started quite late for that type of dance, but I did square dancing and baton twirling growing up and piano playing. And of course we did 4H, so I learned about sewing and crocheting and that sort of thing. So when I became an adult, that was when I decided to try some dancing and I think my first real love of dance came when I learned how to do Country Western dancing. Of course, I don't know if I should share it, but I was 19 years old and I was going into a bar to Country Western dance. I was underage, but you know how that is back then.

[00:02:42] Lindsey Dinneen: You know.

[00:02:43]Shari Augustine: So then that led to a friend of mine was learning how to do ballroom dancing. And so we would go--I lived in Junction City, which is two hours west of Kansas City-- so once a week we would drive on Tuesday nights. We drove to Topeka because they had a dance class there that was ballroom. And so I started learning how to do ballroom dancing and then I started doing competition after I met a Pro-Am dance teacher who trained me for dance competition. And it was really because of that dancing that led me to want to move to Kansas City where I would be closer to my dance lessons because I was driving two hours to come to Kansas City from Junction City and take dance lessons and then drive two hours back home.

[00:03:41]Lindsey Dinneen: Wow.

[00:03:42] Shari Augustine: That's kind of how that all started.

[00:03:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Talk about commitment. Oh, my word. You are amazing. I can't believe you were driving that much for that. That's awesome. So, okay. So, so many gems to unpack on all that. That was so fun. So, so you didn't take your first ballet class until you were 28? I did not know that. Wow.

[00:04:06] Shari Augustine: And I had just moved to Kansas City. I didn't know where anything was in Kansas City, except for the place that I worked and a few different dance studios and that's about it. So if you wanted to give me directions, you had to give me directions from either where I worked or from a dance studio, go this way, all the way to this or that dance studio. I decided I was going to, I had always wanted to take ballet. And so I just decided I was going to do it.

[00:04:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. That's awesome.

[00:04:42]Shari Augustine: It was at DanceWorks Conservatory, and so, you know, you paid a monthly fee, so you had four classes for one fee and it was an adult class, but my second class there, I couldn't make it. So I needed to do a makeup class, you know. The only available makeup class to do was with young kids. So my, my second ballet class, I was in class with a bunch of probably six year old girls. And so I think they knew a whole lot more than I did about ballet. And they just kept looking at me like, "Who are you and why are you in here?"

[00:05:23]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, I feel like that takes a lot of bravery. I mean, just in general, whenever you start something new that's--I think for most of us, at least--that's a whole other level that you have to kind of psych yourself up to. But then--oh my gosh--but then if you're doing it with six year olds, yeah, that would, that would be challenging.

[00:05:44] Shari Augustine: Yes.

[00:05:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my word. So, but you know, it's so interesting because that experience combined with, of course your background in ballroom and your background in the other art forms as well, is that you've really been able to be so well-rounded. I mean, do you think that that has helped, like having so many different genres essentially that you've, that you've worked in and dabbled in, whatever. Do you think that that's kind of impacted the way that you approach maybe even teaching or your own performing or anything like that?

[00:06:20] Shari Augustine: I think it definitely helps because, you know, certain genres will focus on certain things and then other genres focus on other things. And so you can kind of bring that together and pass it on to students. You know, all your different experiences, just giving that insight from, you know, ballet and modern, I can take things that I know from that, or even from yoga and give certain aspects of it to my ballroom or country students. So I think that definitely helps. And then the intricacies of ballroom dancing--you're moving, not just for one person, but essentially it's two people becoming one unit. And so it makes it a little bit different than other styles of dance, but it can still be beneficial today to take that style of dance information from that style of dance and apply it to other styles of dance, if that makes sense.

[00:07:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah, no, I think that brings a unique perspective that you can share with--well, not only for your own self, because I know you're still actively dancing yourself--but, but also for your students. I think that's really interesting. So with the ballroom dance, I know our listeners don't know, but that you are actually an active competitor. Do you have any experiences or how did you get into that in the first place? Cause it, did it start just for fun, you know, at parties or bars and then kind of morphed into a more competitive approach or, or how did that all come about?

[00:08:13] Shari Augustine: Well, I fell in love with it the first time when I started driving from Junction City to Topeka. And so I talked to my, the teacher, the instructor from that class. And she, she knew I wanted to start doing competition.  She knew I wanted to take private lessons. So she hooked me up with someone in Topeka, but then I said I wanted to compete. And so the person in Topeka wasn't registered as a Pro-Am teacher. So, the instructor of the class then said she was going to drive to Kansas City and would I like to go? And I said yes. And so that's where I met my registered Pro-Am teacher. And so I took a lesson with him and he was getting ready to compete. No, actually I competed with a person in Topeka first, just for one competition. And then I started going to coming to Kansas City. And when I met my teacher here in Kansas City, he was getting ready to do a competition and we had two two-hour private lessons. And then we went and competed, I think in something like, I don't know, 15 different dances.

[00:09:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my word.

[00:09:38] Shari Augustine: Yeah. But the good thing, I mean, with me being the follower and him being the leader, I don't think that would be possible if it was the other way around because as a follower, of course there are following skills that you have to acquire, but as a follower, you don't have to think of what steps you're going to be leading. You know what I mean?

[00:10:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Basically like you don't have to on the spot come up with, "Okay, now we're going to do this turn. Now we're going to do this."

[00:10:12] Shari Augustine: Yeah. You don't have to plan as to what you're doing. And of course he already had routines ready. And so it was really just making sure that I could follow everything that he was doing. And so we went and competed and had a good time.

[00:10:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. That is an incredible story. You, you are so brave. I think I would have been like, "Ha yeah, no, no, thanks." Oh my gosh.

[00:10:42] Shari Augustine: Yeah, a lot of pre-competition jitters.

[00:10:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, no kidding. So okay. For those of us who aren't involved in that world, and that includes myself, can you tell us a little bit about the difference you had mentioned a couple of times of, you know, Pro-Am and I'm not familiar with that term versus having someone who's just an instructor. Do you mind just sharing a little bit about that?

[00:11:06] Shari Augustine: So an instructor is considered a pro you know, if they are making money on it and it's their livelihood. They are considered a pro. And so whoever they teach, whatever student they teach who doesn't have the livelihood of dance as a way to make a living, then they are considered to be amateur. And so you match up the instructor with the student. And if the, if the professional is a registered professional with NDCA,  you have to be registered with them either as a Pro-Am teacher--and currently they're requiring amateurs to be registered-- but you can also be registered as an adjudicator, as a professional dancer who dances with another professional dancer, so there's several different categories that you can be registered for. And so he, at the time was registered as a Pro-Am teacher. He was also registered to dance with his professional partner, which at the time was his wife. So that's why we were able to compete together versus the other gentlemen in, in Topeka wasn't able to.

[00:12:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Okay. Interesting. Well, that, that makes sense. They're trying to keep everything kind of regulated to an extent, I guess, so. Awesome. So then you also are a yoga instructor. So when did your interest in yoga start emerging?

[00:12:47]Shari Augustine: Well, when I was, I went to KU for my dance degree, and it was not long after that I think I started kind of looking at yoga. And I remember thinking how, how boring it was. You know, it was so slow moving, whereas dancing a KU, everything is on the go, on the go. So other forms of dance, everything is constantly moving. You're not thinking about breathing. I mean, sometimes you do, but not as much as in yoga, you just hold everything. And of course, then I learned there's different styles of yoga and there's a whole lot of different layers of yoga. But I started thinking about it. I think I was certified in, I want to say 2013, so that would have been 10 years after I finished my degree in dance at KU. But I just, you know, it was looking for other avenues of income and to be able to still use movement in the body and to be able to share that with other people.

[00:14:07]And so I, I just decided, "Okay, I'm going to go get certified in yoga," having not really ever taken a yoga class. Oh, I, once I signed up to do the 200 hour certification, I found this place in Olathe called Darling Yoga. And it's two sisters that have a yoga studio, very good yoga studio. They had an introductory rate of $20 for two weeks unlimited yoga. And so I said, "I'll take it." So I went there and I decided I was going to really make it worth my money. That two weeks and spending $20, I decided I was going to take 20 yoga classes.

[00:15:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow.

[00:15:02] Shari Augustine: I spent 27 hours doing yoga in two weeks. Wow. Let me tell you, it was a lot harder than what I had originally thought. So that was sort of my introduction to yoga.

[00:15:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness. Wow. That's incredible. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Well, well you did dive right in there. Awesome. So, okay. Oh my goodness. And then you're also a pianist and a piano teacher. And you said if I'm not mistaken that you, you'd been doing that for since childhood.

[00:15:43] Shari Augustine: I started playing the piano when I was five. And so I just took lessons. I was kind of picking around on the piano and, you know, we'd come home from church and I would just go downstairs to the piano and start playing the songs that I had heard in church. And so my parents thought it would be a good idea to do piano lessons. Yeah, so they started me learning how to play the piano at five. And I was very, very shy growing up. And I remember telling my mom after a couple of years of piano, that I didn't really like it and I didn't want to continue. And so my mother, a very smart woman, said--she used my shyness against me--she said, "Okay, if you want to quit, then you'll have to tell your teacher."

[00:16:38] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh.

[00:16:40] Shari Augustine: And I never could get over my shyness and tell my teacher that I wanted to quit. So I continued on.

[00:16:49] Lindsey Dinneen: That was very clever. Oh my goodness. Well, and probably now, you know, having those skills is so valuable and being able to teach them to others. So I, I guess it all worked out in the end.

[00:17:04] Shari Augustine: It did all work out in the end.  I feel like, you know, there are people that just have music in them and other people that it's really hard to get an understanding because it just isn't, you know, where their gifts lie. They have, everyone's so different and people shine in one area, maybe not in an other area. And I, I feel like that's one of the gifts that I was given is feeling and understanding music and it sort of comes relatively easy for me by comparison, you know, watching other people in their growth and struggles in it. So I feel like it's kind of a gift that was given to me.

[00:17:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I think so, too. I think your understanding of music has probably allowed you to thrive in such a wide variety of styles of dance too, because it is so different counting a waltz than a, I dunno, swing, than something else. And those are just two examples, but I'm just thinking, you know, your ability to, to connect with music has probably really helped all the forms of dance that you we've embarked on.

[00:18:23] Shari Augustine: Yes, definitely.

[00:18:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So one really fun, random fact that I happen to know about Shari is that she participates in this challenge. Is it like twice a year? You'll have to chime in here in a minute, but she does this amazing challenge, where--is it The Worldwide Splitters? Did I get that right?

[00:18:47] Shari Augustine: Yes, it's the Worldwide Splitters Network and I don't even know who put me into this group on Facebook. I mean, I don't even know who to thank for putting me into it. Suddenly I was in this group and I was, I looked at it and I thought, what in the heck is this? This lady from Australia is the founder of it and she's in her seventies. And she has spent her life as a contortionist. Well, she still does performances as a contortionist, as far as I know, she still does it.

[00:19:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow.

[00:19:27] Shari Augustine: But she founded this group and there are two 60 day challenges every year. And since the start of it, she's broken it up between the adult group and the youth group. But she gives really good advice as far as alignment. She's very good about encouraging you. So I've learned a lot from being in this group and I feel like I've had a lot of growth and a lot of things that I can pass on to other people who are interested in flexibility. They will also have, besides the two 60 day challenges, they also have many challenges in between if you're not quite ready to go the full 60 days doing splits every day. So they have a 30 day back flexibility challenge and a 30 day mini splits challenge. So for the splits, you do your stretching and splitting five days a week with two rest days. For the back flexibility challenge, they do three or four days a week for stretching and warming up your back and then doing the poses that are required.

[00:20:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow.

[00:20:44] Shari Augustine: And then you have to post the required pictures in an album on this Facebook page.  Only dedicated splitters.

[00:20:54]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness. That's amazing.

[00:20:58] Shari Augustine: So I ended up with two of the gold, what's it called now? I can't even think--Gold Standard Award winners. So the first time I was notified that I was, I was in the top 10, a couple of years ago and I ended up placing sixth .And then I think it was last year or the year before, I was contacted by this lady in Australia that started it. And she was saying a few things and kind of leading up to I was in the top three and then pretty soon she said a few more things and pretty soon she broke the news to me that we have chosen you as the Gold Standard Award winner.

[00:21:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow.

[00:21:46] Shari Augustine: And I just totally was, I was just amazed because there are so many really amazing splitters on the page.

[00:21:56] Lindsey Dinneen: How exciting. Well, congratulations.

[00:22:00] Shari Augustine: Thank you.

[00:22:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh yeah.  So I know, you know, this year has been a challenge, to put it mildly for many, many people, but artists, especially I think have really had to either pause or pivot or any number of things. And so, how has this kind of impacted you, and then maybe what other kinds of exciting things, you know, has emerged?

[00:22:28] Shari Augustine: Well, because everything I do is face to face and not really something that I prefer to do on, you know, online, I did not know what I was going to do. And when I first heard about the lockdown, I called up my dad, who by the way, is, was a round dancer. He and his wife were known across the country as round dance instructors. And, so they had, you know, a place in their basement where they would do dancing and, but I called him up and I said, "I have no idea what I'm going to do." And I just started crying because I didn't know any other time--if, if I'm low on cash, if I need to make more money, I just work harder. And that's how you do things. You just, you find something else to do. You figure out a way to make more money, to be able to, you know, take care of your financial responsibilities.

[00:23:38]And because we're in a position where we definitely need to have an income. My husband had a stroke four years ago. And so he wasn't working for a couple of years. And so it put us kind of in a bad place financially. And I was trying to make ends meet and keep on doing things and keep on doing things. He's back to work part time, but that's really after having that hardship, we're just not in a place financially to, to be able to just stay home. No, I was talking to my dad on the phone and I just started crying. I don't know what I'm going to do. I have no idea. I'm at a loss. Any other time, if I need something, I just work harder. I go find a job. Everything I do is face to face.

[00:24:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.

[00:24:31] Shari Augustine: And so I just kind of took a deep breath in, and okay. This is okay. I'm going to clean my house. I'm going to exercise. I'm going to walk every day. I'm getting outside. This is okay. Well then, you know, the mask mandate was starting to come into being, and I thought, "Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna find a good mask pattern and make a couple of masks and send it to my daughters." My youngest daughter is now a nurse. She was going to nursing school. And so I made a couple of masks for her, and I made a couple of masks for my daughter in Colorado and my sister who was in Topeka. And so I posted pictures of these masks on Facebook. And before I knew it, I was just swamped with orders for masks. And so I just started. I became a full-time mask maker for, you know, a month and a half. So I was sitting at the sewing machine every single day, just trying to keep up on my mask orders and I would send them, you know, I sent some to Florida. I sent some to the East Coast. I sent some to the West Coast. I assume some, you know, up North, I sent them all over the place, as well as people here in Kansas City.

[00:25:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's, that's incredible. Are you still doing that or is it kind of slowed down a little bit or how has that all worked out?

[00:26:04] Shari Augustine: It has slowed down a lot. I've had a few people, because they know that this is going to go on for a little while. I had a lady that bought some Christmas fabric and she said, "Well, I'm going to need some masks that go with the Christmas holiday. Will you make some, if I send you the fabric?" And yes, of course, but, I have one order right now, but I haven't made masks for awhile. So it's kind of, it was high demand for a while and now it's just kind of here and there.

[00:26:40] Lindsey Dinneen: So. Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:26:43] Shari Augustine: If anyone wants to, you know, have masks made, I'm happy to do it, but it's no longer full-time.

[00:26:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Well, yeah, like she said before the recording started as a sort of like get up in the morning, sit at your sewing machine all day. Go to bed. Do it again. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness.

[00:27:05] Shari Augustine: I was very grateful for the work, you know, the good Lords always provides and, and I'm always amazed at what He sends my way. So.

[00:27:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, yes, indeed.

[00:27:18] Shari Augustine: Definitely a blessing.

[00:27:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing all those stories. That is so fun. I loved hearing about all the different things that, you know, you're a part of and how that came about. And that's just really, really cool. So, I have three questions that I always like to ask my guests if that's okay with you.

[00:27:42] Shari Augustine: Okay.

[00:27:43] Lindsey Dinneen: So the first question is how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:27:50]Shari Augustine: I think it's different for every person. It's a way of using your creativity to allow your feelings to be put out there without--sometimes you can't say what your feelings are. And so it's a way of allowing your feelings to come out for you. Yeah, or it, it can be putting a message out and everyone might take that message in differently, because we all look at art differently and that's okay.

[00:28:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Perfect.

[00:28:32] Shari Augustine: And that's the thing about artists that it is different for everyone from the artist to the person who is looking at the art and that's okay.

[00:28:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. And so what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:28:53]Shari Augustine: I don't know generally speaking, but for me, I enjoy sharing things with people to hopefully make an impact on them or make a difference in their lives.

[00:29:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:29:11] Shari Augustine: You know, one way or the other, whether it is looking at things from a different perspective or just appreciating the beauty, feeling the music or feeling the movement. When I was doing, I did the liturgical dancing for a while and when I did that--liturgical dancing is dancing in church--and it was always my prayer that the spirit moving in me would move the spirit in the person who was watching. So that's kind of, I like to have an impact on people by sharing my art.

[00:29:53]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. That's beautiful. And then my final question, and I'll kind of define my terms a little, a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is inclusive referring to an artist who puts his work out there, and provides some context behind that, whether that's, you know, something as simple as a title that kind of describes it, or whether that's a series of program notes, or a backstory or something like that. Versus exclusive referring to an artist who puts their art out into the world, but doesn't provide context behind it. So then it's kind of solely up to the viewer to decide what's going on.

[00:30:39]Shari Augustine: Personally as a viewer--well, and as an artist too-- I think there's value on both sides. But as a viewer, I would prefer to have the backstory and whether or not my take on the art is still the same as the person who has created the art--it may or may not be--but I just like to have that background for my own understanding. And to, to try to see more clearly where the artist is coming from. But on the other hand, you might look at a piece that's out there and if you have no context, then it can either say something to you or it might not say something to you. But it may or may not be the same as the intended, you know, voice of the artist.

[00:31:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, exactly.

[00:31:45] Shari Augustine: Yeah, I think it's really preference.

[00:31:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Yup. Yeah. Well, and I like asking these questions because it is subjective and the answers are subjective too, because it's art, which is so fun. That's so special about it. So.

[00:32:03] Shari Augustine: So my piano student that I had today, we were talking about artistic liberty. And so I said, when you are, because there was a correction I made for him and he's an older gentleman, I made the correction and he kind of halfway joked that it was his artistic liberty. And I said, "Well, since we are at piano lessons, we're not going to have artistic liberty. We're going to do what the music says as a learning tool, but when you are in front of an audience and you are entertaining an audience, you can have all the artistic liberty that you would like to have."

[00:32:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I like that a lot. I love that perspective. Yeah, because you have to start with the technique. I often tell my students the same, very similar kind of thing is, let's start with the, all the technique that you, you need to know and let's learn artistry basics. And then when you get to a certain level, that's when it becomes super fun, when you can make it your own, but you have to have that base first layers to it. You know, you, you learn this part of it and then you learn this part of it and you just keep on stacking it on top. And then at the end, once you have solidified all the lower layers, then you can make it your own and really put the emotion into it.

[00:33:36] Shari Augustine: I have another couple of students who they're working on the Rumba, and every week when I work with them, they keep saying to me, "I want to do it perfectly." And I said, "There is no such thing as perfect." That's the beauty of art is that there is never perfection with me, or if anybody else agrees with me, but that's just what I say is that there isn't perfection, but there is beauty in the imperfection.

[00:34:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh, I love that. Yes. So on board, no, I agree with you. There's-- you will never be able to achieve a level of perfection and, exactly like you said, but there is so much beauty in the imperfection, so it makes us human. That's what makes us relate to each other. So love it. Oh, that was very insightful. Thank you. Well, if any of our listeners are interested in connecting with you, either for lessons or masks or whatever, is there a way for them to do that?

[00:34:39]Shari Augustine: Yes. So we were talking about the, the Pro-Am information from before and so at that time, I was the amateur side of the program, but now I'm the professional side of the Pro-Am and I am registered with NDCA. I take students to competition for both country western partner dancing, ballroom partner dancing, and most recently I have a couple of titles for competition line dancing. So I do all sorts of training for, you know, the partner dancing, the line dancing, and so any of that is available. If you are interested in contacting me, you can call or text at (785) 307-2294. Or I have an email address [email protected]. And so I do mostly private lessons, or sometimes people have hired me for workshops or classes that's outside of the studio.

[00:35:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Awesome. Yes. And for anyone listening, who is interested in those kinds of lessons, Shari is awesome. She is definitely your gal to learn from the best, but also learn from somebody who's just such a nice, encouraging person. You will definitely feel validated and, you know. Basically, if you have nerves about trying anything, whether that's piano or ballroom or ballet or yoga, she would be the person to go to, and Shari, so thank you again so very much for being on today's episode. I really, really appreciate it. And I just want you to know that, I, again, I have the privilege of having, you know, watched a little bit of your journey, worked a little bit with you, and I just know that you do make an impact on people's lives and you do add so much beauty to the world through your art. And so I just want to say thank you for that. And thank you for being on this episode. I really appreciate it.

[00:36:55] Shari Augustine: Thank you very much. It was my pleasure.

[00:36:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. And thank you so much to all of our listeners who've listened to this episode, and if you're feeling as inspired as I am, I would love if you would share this with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.

[00:37:15]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

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In this episode, I welcome Tessa Priem! Tessa is a solo dance artist and the creator of "Inner Reformation: An Autobiography Danced." She shares about her journey from a massive health crisis to healing and redemption, and the way that the arts helped her navigate it all. (Fun fact: this episode's cover image is of Tessa and is her show's promotional photo!)

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Episode 31 - Tessa Priem

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.

[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful.

[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to have as my guest today, the lovely Tessa Priem. She is a solo dance artist, and we had the privilege of meeting at the Kansas City Fringe Festival several years ago. But thank you so much for being here.

[00:00:53] Tessa Priem: Thank you, Lindsey. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:57]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, of course I would love if you don't mind sharing just a little bit about who you are and maybe your background in dance and sort of the arts and, and go from there.

[00:01:09] Tessa Priem: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because I'm not really known. I frequently say I'm a big, fat nobody. So I live near Kansas City. And in fact, I've lived near Kansas City for just over a decade. Lindsey, so you and I met at the Fringe Festival in 2018, in the summer of 2018. And so by that time I lived near Kansas City for eight years. But when we met, that was literally the first like, I believe maybe it was in 2017 that I started stepping out into the artists' community in Kansas City. So it took me a long time to even start connecting with artists, even though I live so close to such a, an amazing city that supports the arts so well. So as you highlighted, we, you and I, met at the Kansas City Fringe Festival. And, to give a bit of my background, I grew up studying dance. I wouldn't say my training as a child was necessarily super by any means at all. But I had this great love for it. I loved to perform, and performing for an audience is probably one of my most favorite things to do as a kid and as a youth, especially in high school.

[00:02:46] So I went on and I studied modern dance in college. And then I danced with a small company in St. Louis for about five years. And then I went on a long hiatus from performing probably about nine years, maybe just a little over nine years. And, in that time I moved to Kansas City and I experienced a health collapse. I experienced a physical health collapse, but before that I experienced a mental, I experienced severe depression. So I just had a lot of things in life that, that went pretty terribly for a number of years. And I stopped dancing altogether in that time. So, my answer is already getting quite long. There's so much more I could share, but kind of to wrap it up, Lindsey is that throughout my health collapse, during my health collapse, it began in the year 2012. I thought I was dying and I'm a mother of three children. So it was very, very devastating to me, the thought of potentially leaving my children behind.

[00:04:00] So what happened was, I really wanted to share my life story with my children in the event of me dying. And so in 2016, which before that, I had tried writing out my life story and every attempt failed. I, it just was not working. So I'm kind of, in a sorta miraculous way, I was just standing in my kitchen one day and the idea hit me that I could dance out my life story. So, I had never seen a solo dance show before in my entire life, Lindsey, cause you know, I mean most dance that we see is done in companies or you usually dance with other dancers, you know, or, or at least another partner. To see a solo dance artist was completely out of my realm of experience. So just standing in my kitchen, my struggle with figuring out how can I tell my life story to my children, the writing isn't going well, that idea literally just hit me. "You can dance out your life story." And so, that's what I started October 31st, 2016. And it took almost a full two years to get the dance together.

[00:05:27] And it debuted July, 2018 at the Kansas City Fringe Festival, and that's when I met you, Lindsey. And so, so my solo show debuted at that time, my life story danced out. It's called "Inner Reformation: an Autobiography Danced." And, after the Fringe Festival, I had to decide what to do: to either quit that solo performance or to say, "I'm going to make this my life's ambition." And it was really scary to kind of make that decision, but I ended up deciding this is going to be my life's work. And so, so now I'm four years into the journey and it's a journey that certainly has its ups and downs, but I continue to build on, I continue to work on that show, absolutely. But I also am working on other artistic projects as well. And so I'm still a solo dance artist just traveling by myself. But I have people along the way that support me. You know, us doing this interview is an example of that.

[00:06:33]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah, absolutely. And so, yeah, so I am particularly interested in your autobiography danced, "Inner Reformation" and sort of your creative process and the, how that all came to be because, you know, undertaking a full length show, like you said, as a company is a task enough, but as a solo artist, I mean it magnifies and just even building up your stamina and all those kinds of things. So can you just share about all that process?

[00:07:08]Tessa Priem: Yes, I mean, I could talk for hours about this. Yes. So the way I formatted the solo show, directed those two, almost two years, in me creating the autobiography dance. And that was that I, at the very beginning, I set a goal and that was that well, first of all, let me back up just a little bit. When I had that idea in my kitchen to dance out my life story, there had been a CD that I had been listening to. I've been teaching a dance class. It was my first dance class that I had taught in years, because again, I had gone on a really lengthy hiatus from dancing. And in that time I'd had children and again had experienced severe depression, had experienced a complete health collapse. So as I was standing in my kitchen, literally my body was still quite weak from my health collapse. So just the idea of even doing a solo show--you spoke of the stamina required for solo show-- I had very, my strength at that time was not, I was pretty weak still. So anyway, even so, I had the CD in mind again, because I, I, for the first time was teaching this class and I used this particular CD in this class.

[00:08:31] And so as I was standing in my kitchen and, and that idea hit me, I turned on that CD, Lindsey, and every single song-- there were 12 tracks on that song, on that CD--and every single song, Lindsey. I knew it, it was like automatic. I knew what part of it, my life, that song, my life fit to that CD, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And unlike trying to write the book for my children and it being entirely unsuccessful, it was automatic that when I listened to the CD, it was just all clear. And that's why I kind of call it miraculous. It's just, it was so effortless and so surprising just out of the blue, right? So, so after I had that sort of clear picture, if you will, of what every song was going to be about and how it applied to that particular period in my life, for that particular event in my life. I, and knowing that the CD itself had 12 tracks, I decided that I would create one dance per month for one year. And then the second year I would start perfecting. Well, no, no, wait, sorry. I super underestimated things. I thought that by the second year I would be able to perform it, but that proved absolutely ridiculous because working cause it ended up being a 57 minute show.

[00:10:12] So to create one dance per month for 12 months, and keep in mind, I hadn't danced for years and keep in mind, I had just come from a terrible health collapse that left me often unable to walk. I was so weak at certain times that my husband had to carry me. It was, yeah, so, so I was kind of just starting over, in terms of moving my body once again. So creating one dance per month, it was very silly of me to even think that the whole dance would be perfected by that second year. And I could just spend the whole year showing that dance. So what ended up happening was I ended up spending almost all of the second year perfecting the dance. And then finally, by the time that Fringe came around, the dance was just barely ready for me to show is quite a crunch because I was still building up that stamina to be able to perform for nearly an hour. So, that was, I guess, kind of the process, Lindsey, have one dance per month and then with the goal of showing it in the second year, and by, by complete mercy, I was able to show it at the Fringe Festival in the second year.

[00:11:36]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. And it's also, I love that you were so deliberate about breaking down your process. I think that for a lot of us, when we kind of maybe look at a, a high level goal like that, you know, it, it can feel overwhelming unless you do break it down into manageable chunks. So that, that's great. I love the way that you processed through that.

[00:12:03] Tessa Priem: Yeah. And I think what helped with that was that the fact that there were 12 songs on the CD. But again, those songs just coincided with the chapters of my life, if you will. It's even funny, Lindsey, that the, even the titles of the songs, it's almost like it was written for my, it's for my life story. It's, it's bizarre, because even the titles of the songs themselves literally apply to what the dance is about. So it's what each dance is about. So  another little thing that I consider just kind of strange and, and nearly kind of, I don't know, I don't know if using the word miraculous is that or not, but that's the only word I can think of, you know? So, or maybe providential or something like that. So, I think again, that's, that's part of what guided me certainly is the fact that it had 12, 12 songs and that helped me set one dance per month. So it was kind of laid out for me nice and neat. I didn't have to think too hard about it.

[00:13:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. I love that. And so I'm just curious, what surprised you the most along the road, either throughout the process or audience reactions or what stood out to you the most?

[00:13:26] Tessa Priem: Hmm. Oh, one thing when I began the project, I had so much doubt. My self-confidence, if you will, was so extremely low, Lindsey, I didn't think anyone would want to watch me. I thought I would be boring. It's just, it's just mind boggling to me of, of where my mind kind of was at that time, thinking that I had almost nothing to offer to a crowd, to an audience, right? And so that was a long process. Another, I guess, surprising thing was that I dealt with a good bit of injury while creating it, literally. And so, and this was, this was quite challenging because I only had a month to complete each dance, right? So, so literally Lindsey, by the time, like nearing my 11th and 12th months, I was literally crawling on the floor cause I had injured my ankle and it was unbelievable. I'm serious. I was crawling on the floor and so a lot of the dance had to be, I had to end up, as I perfected it in the second year, I had to change a decent bit of the choreography to especially get me on the floor because I had messed up my ankle so badly because my ankle wasn't used to dancing as, cause I was dancing on it daily. And so it was just such a quick transition for my body to go from not dancing and to have gone through as complete health collapse.

[00:15:04] And by the way, I had lost probably about 20% of my body mass in that time. So I had lost so much muscle tone and so on. So it, it, it was, it was hard on my body, but here, let, let me say something that was so surprising, Lindsey, that countered all of this doubt, self doubt along the way. And that countered my injury was creating the solo show was the most joyous thing I had done for 12 years in my life. I had had a really horrible stretch of 12 years. And so this solo show was the first year that I had genuine happiness and joy. And so any burden that I had, almost felt so insignificant, if it can't by comparison, because the joy was just so fulfilling and uplifting, and I needed that so badly in life, I needed that so badly.

[00:16:07]Another thing that was surprising is, because this was such a big goal of creating a solo show, creating all 12 dances in 12 months, you know, and having never seen a single solo show in my life. So I didn't know what I was doing. And furthermore, I am not one to open up easily to people about certain events of my life. So the fact that I was even making a solo show about my life story and was even considering opening that up to my own family, let alone the public, was like insanity to me, right? So, there were so many times along this journey throughout these two years where it really seemed that the solo show might not come together because my ankle was too messed up.

[00:16:52] Or, there was a particular event when I was six months in this solo show, I ended up having sort of a screening of it. And I invited about 40 people to come and I was halfway through building the dance. So I had six dances done and they were going to come, about 40 people, and they were going to watch me dance because I wanted their feedback to know, "Is this just a stupid project?" I wanted to know, "Are people going to be bored with me? Are people going to boo me off the stage?" You know?  It ended up where we ended up doing the showing in the basement of my home. And so, because we couldn't fit about 40 people into my basement, we had to break it up into two showings. And so about 20 people came to the first showing. So, and then I did these two showings back-to-back, where about 20 people came to the first showing and then the next set of people came in.

[00:17:46] And just to give you a clue, Lindsey, about how weak I was at that time. So I only did about 30 minutes of the dance at that time. I was so weak after the first showing that I literally laid on the floor of my basement. Well, the next set of people came in and I had to direct a few of the men who came to set up my set for me, because as the show progressed, my props change location. But, I had even more props early on in the creation of my show, like a lot more props than what you saw at Fringe. But anyway, I was so weak at this time, at six months into the creation of the solution that I had to lay on the floor and build up strength while I directed these men to put my props in place. And I had no idea if I would be able to build up the strength to perform this the second time for the second show, but here's a great surprise. What happened at the showing was incredible. The people supported me. They were just kind of blown away. And it affirmed for me that I should keep going and creating the solo show that I shouldn't stop, that I should keep going. And so I did. And so those are, I guess, just some of the surprises along the way. 

[00:19:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And how encouraging too, because I know all artists at, I think I can only imagine at all levels, so to speak, have those moments of even if initially, you know, you're really passionate and you think definitely this is a good concept, until you have some feedback, you still, it takes so much bravery and courage to put yourself out there and put your creation out there and hope. So that's so great that you had people, you know, to help you along the way and say, yes, this concept is important and yes, you should be doing this. Well, and, so since you debuted it at the Fringe Festival, my understanding is that you've gotten to do some additional work. Have you gotten to perform that particular one again?

[00:19:59] Tessa Priem: I did. I performed the full solo show at a small university in Minnesota. I was supposed to perform it at least in two other locations, but I ended up having to have major abdominal surgery. So both of those shows had to be canceled. But you know, kind of like you and I were talking before we started recording this conversation, Lindsey, the timing of things in life can sometimes be such a gift, because those shows being canceled and me being completely out of commission, totally unable to move, because dancers, I mean, perhaps most of the listeners who listen to your podcast know that dancers or, or anybody who moves their body, you move from the core of your body. So what was cut open? It was my core. My abdomen was completely sliced open.

[00:20:56] So, so that sent me to the couch and I had to think of what was next. What was I supposed to do? And so that kind of started me on some new things in my art, in some new directions. So, basically from having major, major abdominal surgery, it sort of became clear to me that it was time to start writing my autobiography. So in October, 2019, October 31st, 2019, three years after I started creating my solo dance show, I determined that I was going to set a five-year project to write out my life story. So, I just reached my first year of that anniversary. So I have four more years to go Lord-willing. So I am currently writing my autobiography to be kind of a companion to my solo dance.

[00:22:01]So, I guess that's part of the fruit of getting my abdomen worked on in surgery is that it, it rerouted my sort of plans and my, my focus, as well as, this is funny, Lindsey, but, you know, before COVID, no dance performances were being live-streamed. Online dance performances have always been largely done in public, right? We make our performances in public and if anything, we record it and then afterwards you can watch your recording, right? So, while I was recovering from that surgery, it's kind of like standing in my kitchen, you know, and the idea hit me that I could dance out my life story, and it kind of, similar way I thought, because I'm a mom so I know that I, it's not very feasible for me to travel around like most companies do or like most solo artists do they travel around and they perform their shows. And I knew that's not something I can can do in my situation as, as a parent. And as a parent, I homeschool my children, so I just knew that wasn't feasible.

[00:23:27] So I had to think of, "Well, what can I do? What can I do?" And so I thought, literally, Lindsey, I've been working on this for probably 10 months. If not close to a year, I had been working to make my solo show live through. And I was keeping it a secret. I was keeping it a secret because I thought everybody's going to beat me to the punch. And now I think what I learned is anytime I have an idea, there's just really no reason for me to keep it secret because it's just, it's just silly to keep a great idea to yourself, I suppose. But anyway, so what happened literally overnight? It was March 13th this year, 2020. Overnight, the digital dance world was born, Lindsey, and I saw it happen online.  The whole dance community has entirely changed and everybody has shifted to online and online performances. So, so at that point there was no need for me to keep anything secret anymore that I was trying to build a live stream solo show.

[00:24:25] So, so that was, that was kind of just a funny thing. And, the world was sort of ripe for things to go digital because we have these digital devices and it is totally possible to live stream things. And so that's, I think kind of an interesting and neat thing about COVID, but it doesn't  replace meeting in public and being able to be together. That's for sure. But to move on from the solo show and from writing the autobiography, the other thing that I actually stumbled into is, last August, 2019, I was preparing for a gig. I was going to be performing at Johnson County Public Library in Kansas City.  The event coordinator, his name is Joseph, he saw my solo show at the, at the Kansas City Fringe Festival. And, the library was going to be doing a theme throughout the year regarding mental health. And of course my solo show deals a lot with mental health and so he asked me to come there. So what happened is I was rehearsing for this gig to perform at the Johnson County Public Library, and lo and behold, I ended up in a park on a beautiful sunny day and I recorded myself dancing outside ,Lindsey. And when I got home, I was blown away by what I saw. Because I saw how absolutely gorgeous it was to dance outside in the wind and in the sunshine, and to see these big fluffy white clouds in the sky and to see like soaring hawks in the air as I was dancing.

[00:26:05] And so my jaw just dropped open when I got home and looked at the footage. So I started a new goal. I started a goal that I would dance outside once per month and would capture the footage. And I did that for an entire year So that's what I did. And then I finished that July, 2020. So half of the filming that I did was filmed during the time of COVID actually, which worked out pretty well because I was just dancing in open spaces,  So I was just going to public places, and I didn't have to worry about running into people too much or anything like that. And, and so it just worked out quite well. I was able to film all 12 months and I filmed on my humble computer camera because that's the only resource that I had at the time. So computer cameras, as we know, aren't that great with capturing video because it's just this tiny, tiny lens that's letting in light. But what happened, Lindsey, was when I went outside into the natural light, somehow this tiny little lens that light poured through, and it was able to capture my dancing in such an unbelievable way.

[00:27:22] So then I was able to take screenshots from those from the footage of me dancing outside. And I ended up creating three slide shows that run for seven hours each and they have royalty-free music built into them. And so this is my very first product that I'm launching by Inner Reformation. And I just recently launched this. And so it's very new territory for me. And I'm so delighted about it and so excited about it. So those are kind of the things that I'm doing right now. I'm still working on my solo show. I'm writing my autobiography.  And then, I'm working on these outdoor slide shows, so I'm kind of all over the place, but that's what I'm doing. Lots of different art projects.

[00:28:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's great. Well, and congratulations on this new project and endeavor. That is so exciting.  Thank you so much for sharing your story and your process and, and just everything, you know, that's made art so impactful for you personally, and how it's really made a difference in your life and, and through you, I'm sure to the lives of other people. So you know that, like you said, you're a pretty private person. So being brave and vulnerable is a big deal. And so thank you for doing that because that's going to impact other people's lives for sure. Well, and I do have a couple of questions that I like to ask all of my guests, if you're up for that. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:29:05] Tessa Priem: Yeah, so I had listened to some of your podcasts right before doing this with you. And so I figured that you would probably ask me this question. And knowing that you were going to ask me, you would think that I would have thought how I would answer you. But what it made me think of is that I actually did a presentation that had a lot to do with what is art. And I ended up looking up the various definitions and like, the Oxford dictionary and Miriam Webster. But one thing that really sticks out to me from what I learned just about sort of the definition is, well, first of all, let me back up just a little bit throughout history. This has been debated and continues to be debated. It's such a interesting question because people always have different answers. So I think even the Greek philosophers from long ago, like really examine this question, what is art? So anyway, from the dictionaries, I thought it was so interesting how they really emphasize that the aspect of skill. So developing a skill. And I, I'm not going to go into, you know, your level of that skill or something, but, but you know, whether it be drawing or whether it be dance or whether it be music of some sort, right? So you have this certain skill or craft that you work on and you end up making something in that skill or craft and that what you make expresses something, right. There's some sort. Of purpose behind that making. And then furthermore, beyond that sort of purpose, whatever it might be, that can be so varied.

[00:30:56] It's so varied for each artist, but from that purpose of whatever you've made, usually after that, that work, that creation is often shared with others, usually. Not always, not always, but it's often shared. So those were just some aspects that I thought were really interesting about what is art, you know, it's kind of, it's this skill or craft that people have that people work on and they pour themselves into it and they make whatever it is that they, that they need to create. And often then they share that work. Not always, but, but frequently that's what happens. And then what happens from that is that the audience in some way responds. And so, I guess that's kind of, maybe that's art, it's, it's making something. And then you go on to either just keep it to yourself, which is special, or you go on to, to share that with others to potentially impact others in some kind of way. But it's definitely something that you make to definitely something that you make.

[00:32:09]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:32:17]Tessa Priem:  So I knew you were going to ask that too. When I first heard you ask this question on the first podcast that I listened to, one of my thoughts was honesty. Just honesty, honestly relating whatever it is that you're trying to create. I suppose I've also heard that art shows us what it means to be human. I mean, but that, well, I guess that kind of goes back to your former question. But, I think, for me personally, as an artist, like it's my big goal to be real and honest with people as I possibly can. I don't want to lie or hide because as you mentioned, it is very scary to reveal what you've made. It's very scary to reveal yourself. So in that it does require a good bit of bravery. And so I guess for me, I really just try to work on being real and honest, but I also want to be like lighthearted and silly at times too, because I can be a little bit serious sometimes. So that bringing that joy and fun, and I listened to your podcast, Lindsey, and I know that's what you've wanted to bring to people through your company, like the sense of joy and happiness and people's lives. So.

[00:33:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then my final question is, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? So inclusive referring to somebody who kind of invites you into the context behind it, whether that's a title or program notes, or a Q&A, versus exclusive where the artists share something, but doesn't put context behind it. So it's completely up to the audience to interpret.

[00:34:17] Tessa Priem: So let me give you a little bit of a backup story. When I was an undergrad learning modern dance, being exclusive was kind of like the go-to the way that we were taught. And so the more vague or abstract your dance piece, the better. And this was just all kind of across the board, like anywhere we traveled to perform or anything like that, just kind of the overall education. And the modern dance community seemed to-- I think the way I felt at least--was that we were entirely discouraged from being at all inclusive. So for example, the stranger your title was, the better. The more confounded you could leave your audience, the better. Well, that really bothered me personally, Lindsey, I just could not connect with that. I just really deeply could not connect with that. And in fact, I ended up hating dance--- I mean, that's why I went on a hiatus. Part of why I went on a hiatus for so long, for almost a decade, it was because I ended up hating dance and dance performance because I didn't like how the audience was sort of treated and it just didn't resonate with me.

[00:35:31] So, so I knew that at the creation of my solo show, that I wanted to make my dance understandable. So, so I, for example, I wanted to, to give in the program, I wanted to give them a description of what they were seeing. You know, not to feed everything to them on a spoon, but I wanted them to at least get a generalization or an idea so that they weren't walking away, scratching their head going, "What in the world just happened?" Because like, you know, you and I were talking before this, this recording, you had said how you experienced a lot of people who had gone to see a show or looked at some sort of art and your experience with people is that they just didn't understand what they were seeing. Well, that was so much my experience in my undergraduate degree. And, and even after undergrad, people would come to my show and they would be like, we just, we don't even know what we saw. And I felt so badly about that. So I knew I wanted to build my solo show completely different from that. Here's part of the beauty though, Lindsey, that in that almost nine years of a hiatus, or almost a decade of hiatus, when I came back, guess what's happening in dance right now that I just was blown away to see? Stories are being told in modern dance. So I just, I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that they were even telling actual stories for people to understand. And so I think there has been a great shift in dance performance. 

[00:37:05] So what I guess then to wrap up this answer is I guess what it's led me to believe is that both are good. Yes. If you can at least let your audience know, for example, "We're we're trying to be more abstract here." I think it's my biggest concern is when you just don't let the audience know anything, right? So if you, if there's a really abstract piece, if at least they could know, okay, it's abstract and they could kind of like let down their guard and say, "Okay, this is abstract. I don't have to work at getting it so much." Right?  Or something, but I, I do think it's good maybe to have kind of both inclusive, exclusive too, to a degree. That way you continue to have variety, because otherwise we might all just kind of start making the same kind of art. And I think it's really important to have great diversity in art, but at the same time, I really hope that we can be very compassionate to our audience because I mean, we are building things to share with them, ultimately, I think, and I've always heard from the dance community, this great passion for, we want to get our work to a larger audience. I mean, I've always heard that in my time and being in modern dance, they always want to reach more people. And I think a way to do that is just to always be very thoughtful to the patrons.  I guess kind of both, but if it is exclusive, I would hope that there is still some thought about how it may impact the audience.

[00:38:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Thank you. Those were very thoughtful answers. I really appreciate that. So if people want to get in touch with you or kind of follow your journey, mayb connect with you, is there a way for them to do that?

[00:39:12] Tessa Priem: Yes. So I am on various social media platforms. I'm on Facebook, I'm on YouTube, I'm on Instagram and all of my names are the same. You can find me a@innerreformation. So you spell inner the word inner, and then you spell the word reformation.  If you type in my name, Tessa Priem, you could probably find me too. And in fact, if you Googled my name, Tessa Priem, you would find my website immediately and see photos of me. But I would love for people to join me on the journey. In fact, that's kind of my phrase that I say, enjoy the journey. So I would, I would love for people to come with me. And, cause I, I've got a lot that I hope to share. I have so much in me that I desire to share. And these outdoor slideshows, for example, are something that I would love to get in people's homes and in businesses and institutions to share on TV screens or any type of digital screen that we have. So, yeah, you can find me @innerreformation, and I am pretty easy to approach. I love interacting with people so that you can certainly find me online.

[00:40:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Thank you so much. Well, and thank you again for joining us, Tessa, and for all of the insights that you've provided, and thank you for sharing your story and your message with the world through your dancing. I know that, like I said earlier, that makes a difference in people's lives. So I definitely want to say thank you. And, and thank you so much to all of you who have listened to this episode. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am, I would love if you would share this with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.

[00:41:09] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much, and I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:41:18] Hey, Artfully Told listeners, I'm excited to share with you about Audible. As a podcast listener yourself, you already know how great it is to listen to something while you're driving or doing dishes or whatever it is. Audible has thousands of titles of audiobooks, as well as podcasts and other cool things. And they're offering a free audiobook to Artfully Told listeners when you sign up for a free trial membership. You'll have 30 days to decide if Audible is right for you. And you can cancel at any time without being charged and still keep your free audiobook. Sign up for your free trial and audio book at www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Again, that's www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Thanks, Artfully Told listeners!

In this episode, I welcome Maggie Rader! Maggie is an AEA actor and Dramatists Guild playwright based in Cincinnati, Ohio. She shares some funny and touching stories about growing up and starting her career in children's theater. Maggie brings a unique perspective to the question of whether art should be inclusive or exclusive, and why context matters. 

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Episode 30 - Maggie Rader

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.

[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful.

[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to have as my guest today, Maggie Lou Rader.

[00:00:43] Maggie Rader: Hello!

[00:00:44] Lindsey Dinneen: She is an-- hi!!  She is an AEA actor and Dramatists Guild playwright based in Cincinnati, Ohio. And so thank you so much Maggie for being here!

[00:00:58] Maggie Rader: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk to another person!

[00:01:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Right? Yes. And I would love if you would share with our audience just a little bit about maybe who you are and your background and whatever you want to share.

[00:01:15] Maggie Rader: Yeah, absolutely. I grew up in Southwest Oklahoma in a really, really teensy town, got out and moved to the big city of Kansas City, Missouri. And, got a four year graduate degree. I may as well have been living in Manhattan. I thought it was the most cosmopolitan. It's like, oh my God, there's a Starbucks on every corner. And, I was lucky enough while I was there to study at Oxford University and go overseas, and then for grad school, I actually went back to England and studied at the Birmingham School of Acting in the UK and came back to the States, toured around for a little while doing children's theater, which is the best acting experience I've ever had because third graders are the most honest audience of all time.

[00:02:00] And then I've been in Cincinnati for 10 years. This is my--it's my 10th season as a resident actor at the Cincinnati Shakespeare Company. But I'm also lucky enough to perform at other area theaters in Dayton and Louisville. I'm living here in Cincinnati with my husband and three fur babies with four eyes between them. And we're both lucky enough to make our living performing on stage most of the time, not right now, but in our normal lives, that's what we do.

[00:02:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yes. I think everyone's idea of normal has shifted a bit lately. Awesome. Okay. So something peeked my interest--well, everything--you're obviously super accomplished, but something tweaked my interest immediately. And you were talking about children's theater and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind sharing some of the differences between performing for kiddos versus performing for adults.

[00:02:55] Maggie Rader: Oh, sure. It's the highs and the lows are just so much higher and lower. Like I have performed, what I did is I toured around with Kentucky Shakespeare for an entire year. I did about 500 performances of this two-person "Taming of the Shrew," that was all about manners and, you know, doing "Taming of the Shrew" for kids--doing "Taming of the Shrew" anyway, is a bit problematic. And if you don't address the problematic nature and why it's still important to do the play cause misogynists and misogyny still exists today, so why do we pretend like it doesn't? And these kids would always, they actually asked the most insightful questions. Like "Why was Kate so mean?" It's like, "Well, why do you think she was so mean?" And like, "Well, her dad, wasn't very nice to her." And it's like, yeah, a lot of adults don't pick up on that. It's like, "Yeah, I'd be mad too if my dad treated me the way he does and my sister was treating me the way that she does." And, but they are just the most honest audience. Ever. And that includes if you were being funny or not. And, more than once we did have kids leave the gym or wherever we were performing and there was, there were puddles on the floor cause they were laughing too hard. And it's just the cutest thing. It's like, "I'm so sorry you pee your pants," but what a great compliment, I guess.

[00:04:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh indeed.

[00:04:21] Maggie Rader: So it's, I, I encourage all my students when I'm teaching people coming out of college, do one year of performing for kids. You are going to learn more about your craft and yourself, and you're going to get more performances under your belt. Then if you perform in a live fancy theater for adults, which is really fun and really great, but I would not be half of the actor I am today if I hadn't done children's theater at first.

[00:04:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah. It's so fun to perform for kids. I think I love what you said that they're the most honest audience. I mean, they really are. I remember performing back a few years ago, we used to do a show and two out of the four or five shows that we did were for kids specifically. And it was always so fun because they would laugh and they would comment and they would cheer and they were so involved, versus the adults sort of just sit there. And it's awkward, cause sometimes when things are intended to be funny, you don't get any response and you're kind of like, "Well, that was fun."

[00:05:29]Maggie Rader:  It's true. You know, even as we perform now, you know, in the big fancy theater for adults, especially doing Shakespeare, we still do a lot of educational matinees for students. And depending on what show we're doing, depends, you know, we did a "Midsummer Night's Dream" a few years ago, so we did have a lot of younger students come to see it. And my favorite thing about doing Shakespeare for kids versus adults is there so much direct address, and you know, when Shakespeare was being written, they intended for the actors to go talk to the audience and that they're probably going to respond to you because there was no concept of the fourth wall until after Shakespeare's death. And so when you perform for kids and you go ask them to be, or not to be, and when they, they respond, obviously to be, that'd be stupid, Hamlet. And when they actually respond to you, and the adults don't because, you know, there's this stigma of  Shakespeare. And I must sit and listen and let the poetry wash over me and kids are actually involved. It's like, you know, when Puck comes out on stage and the kids tell Puck where everyone is. Like, oh, it's, it's delightful.

[00:06:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Yes. So I'm sure this is going to be one of those terribly difficult questions to answer, but is there a play that stands out to you as being your favorite, either to perform or to watch? I know. You can pick a couple.

[00:07:01] Maggie Rader: What a good, good, good question. One of my, I think my dream role of dream roles was to play Maggie the Cat in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof." And, I got to do it--oh, in 2017, I think-- it was a few years ago and it was just so much fun. You know, we worked with a really great director called Michael Haney who works in Missouri a lot, as well, but, oh my gosh, when that play is done well, and it moves and it's quick. You know, the audience came every night expecting, you know, the Elizabeth Taylor movie, which, oh my gosh, the script is awful. Like they just absolutely decimate the story and they take the onus away from Maggie at the end and they make it Brick's choice to go upstairs and, and they just completely changed the ending of the play.

[00:07:54] And so it's fun to do plays like that, where the audience thinks they, they think that they know the story. Like "Romeo and Juliet." Everyone thinks that they know "Romeo and Juliet," but when you start making sex jokes and the audience is completely taken off guard, it's like, well, it's the dirtiest play in the cannon. There's a lot of sex jokes, but it's really fun to do those plays that the audience, especially our smart adult audiences think they know, but they don't. And so I think "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" was, it was a really special one for me and it was, it, you know, it's always nice when other people appreciate. And it's, it was nice to hear that the staff at the theater, still a lot of them think it's their favorite show that we've done in our new space. And, that always does my heart good. However, if I'm going to go watch a play, I want to watch August Wilson's "Fences" every day of the week. It is one of the most beautiful pieces of poetry and life I've ever seen. August Wilson's "Fences," maybe one of my favorite plays of all time. I never going to be in it, but there is not a role for me in it, but by golly, I love watching it.

[00:09:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. So I'm curious, have you always been very brave, so to speak, and bold, or did you ever deal with stage fright or how did that all evolve?

[00:09:26] Maggie Rader: You know, I think I'm just one of those dumb, lucky people that it's never occurred to me to not just be loud and say what I think. And I, I'm sure-- I know you know my father and I'm sure that when I, the very first time I ever performed was in kindergarten. And you know, my father will also tell you, I have about as much patience as he does, and they were all auditioning us for our, we were doing this Valentine's Day variety show, as you do in kindergarten. And I wanted to do the Valentine's dance with the beautiful Craig Johnson. Oh, my gosh. What if Craig Johnson listens to this? Craig, I had such a crush on you in kindergarten! And I just wanted to do the Valentine's dance with Craig Johnson and they were auditioning kids for the "12 Days of Valentines." Like the "12 Days of Christmas." And the first day of Valentine's was "a fox in a fur coat." And if you count the syllables, there's not enough syllables. So it had to be "and a fox in a fur coat" at the end, and it makes no sense. And all these kids were tripping over it and couldn't get it right. And they're parading all these kids up trying to say, "and a fox in a fur coat." And I was getting so frustrated that they. I finally just slapped the table, stood up and said, "Guys, how hard is it to say "and a fox in a fur coat." And I sat back down, and stupid me, got the part when I didn't even want it. And I didn't get to do the Valentine's Day dance with Craig Johnson.

[00:11:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, but it launched your acting career. That is a fantastic story. Oh, my word, I love that. So then did you ever get to have a dancing role or was that like, "I really wanted it then and didn't need it later on."

[00:11:26] Maggie Rader: You know? No, I've done two musicals in my entire life. One of them was in college. I had to do "Pippin." I had to do "Pippin." It was my senior year. It was the first musical they'd done in a really long time. And I didn't go and audition because I can't sing or dance. And the head of the department called me into his office and he said, "Maggie, I noticed that you didn't audition for 'Pippin.'" Oh yeah, "No, not at all." And he said, "Maggie, you're going to be in 'Pippin.'" It's like, "I don't want to be in "Pippin." I will fail at "Pippin." And I would rather not be in 'Pippin.'" And he said, "Suck it up, deal with it. You're in 'Pippin.'" And so I had to be a player in "Pippin" and I still don't like that musical. I think it's weird. Like, it's not even just weird. I just don't think it's very good. And maybe I'm... might be treason when it comes to musical theater, but I don't like "Pippin." I don't like the music. I just don't like it and..

[00:12:25] Lindsey Dinneen: That's fine!

[00:12:26] Maggie Rader: And I have bronchitis the whole show, so I couldn't even sing. So I was lip-synching the whole thing. And then some fool cast me--I was very blonde in college--some fool cast me in "Sugar." And "Sugar," the musical, which is the musical version of "Some Like It Hot" and it's not a very good musical. It didn't run on Broadway for very long, but I had to play Sugar Shell in "Sugar," the musical, and the sweet music director stayed after and coached me through the songs. Cause I don't have a very good ear for music, and luckily I didn't have to dance that much in it either. But I do, because of Shakespeare, we tend to do bergamasques at the end of the shows, which, well, the end of the comedies. In Shakespeare's day, every play, whether it was comedy, tragedy, or history, they did a bergamasque, a dance at the end of the show. So, you know, it's the smothered Desdemona gets up from the bed and does the bergamasque dance at the end of "Othello." But so I've had to do lots of dancing in Shakespeare, but luckily I'm doing it with a bunch of other Shakespearian actors and I move better than most of them, which gives me hope.

[00:13:35]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, there you go.

[00:13:38] Maggie Rader: So I had to do it, whether I liked it or not.

[00:13:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Fair enough. Okay. So what was the moment or maybe series of moments that led you to realize, "this is my calling?"

[00:13:51] Maggie Rader: You know, I think like many artists, who, who live in cities-- you know, the arts gave me an outlet in high school. High school wasn't fun. Was high school fun for anybody? If it was, I don't think I'd trust them.

[00:14:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I don't either.

[00:14:08] Maggie Rader: Yeah. And it, it gave me something to do when I was living in a really small rural town and didn't have a ton of friends and, but I quickly found out, I like this. I'm good at this. This is fun. And I auditioned in college. I was going to be a radio production major in college, but then they ended up selling the the radio station and the entire program. So I was like, "Well, do I switch schools? Do I, what do I do?" And luckily I had a really lovely head of the department--who made me do "Pippin" later, but I'll forgive him-- but he said, "You know, I think you could do this if you wanted to." And it just never really occurred to me that I could be a professional stage actor. I thought, "Oh yeah, I can do radio. I can, you know, do news broadcasting." And there are avenues that I can do that are still performance, but it's probably a more responsible career choice. So I was really looking at a journalism and things like that. Oh, well, cause it's, this is what I love to do, so I guess I'll try it,  and I kind of made that decision in college, and yeah, it's been going great ever since. Lucky me. But yeah, until COVID hit. I've been working since I got out of school and so has my husband. So.

[00:15:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's awesome. That's absolutely fantastic. Well, are there any moments sort of along the way of your, your life, your journey, that really stand out as an encounter with art to kind of tuck away and remember?

[00:15:39] Maggie Rader: Yeah, totally. You know, I-- and I know I said that I did a lot of children's theater, but I do also do a lot of teaching too-- and actually when I was on that children's tour, for the Kentucky Shakespeare, right out of grad school, I was out in Eastern Kentucky. So we were staying in Hazard, because it was the biggest town. And then we were going to all these rural schools in the mountains. So we were out there for an entire week, and working, and going to every single children or, elementary school in the county. And so I was in a classroom and I was doing a workshop where the kids each had to do, they had to be one of the witches in Scottish play. And we were just talking about what it means to be a witch, or it's like, "Okay, well, this play's been done for 400 years. So how can we put our own spin on it and make it our own Scottish play?" Because all Shakespeare really wants is that these witches are not human, so if we're producing our own Scottish play, what would we want our witches to look like and sound and move? And so I gave out the, you know, "When shall we three meet again?" scene, and broke the kids into groups of three.

[00:16:47] And I just saw this one kid who was just shut down from the very, very, very beginning. And I went over to him and I said, "Hey, do you need some help?" And the teacher just talked to the entire classroom and she said, "Oh, he don't read." I kind of stopped. And I said, Hhe don't read well, or at all?" And she said, "Oh no, he don't read at all." It's like, okay. And so I pulled him aside and I said, "Hey, if I, if I read it to you, can you remember it?" And he's like, "Oh yeah!" And it just broke my heart that it felt like this kid had been given up on by his class and his teacher. And it's like, this kid is smart. He needs to read in a different way.

[00:17:33] And he hasn't been helped. But if a kid can memorize an entire scene of Shakespeare, if I read it to him first, that kid's smart. And he did! I read it out loud and he remembered every line he had and it just--you know, and when I was growing up, the only arts experience we had in high school was Miss Oklahoma coming and talking to us about following your dreams or something. I don't know. And that was our arts exposure in high school. And I thought, "God, if we can find a way to connect to these rural kids, so that they know that the arts is an avenue, or even a way to channel what you're going through. You know, you don't have to do it as a career, but if it helps you learn, if it helps you learn how to read, what a way to not give up on those kids who learn differently."

[00:18:27]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Wow, what a story! I, it's amazing to me. I mean, I would think very few adults would be able to hear a monologue or whatever one time and be able to quote it. I mean, that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, I don't think most of us could ever do that. Yeah. Ah, so I hope, yeah, that's, that's a really amazing moment. And I, I can only imagine that that definitely made an impression on him, and just realizing that there are alternate ways of learning or expressing or whatever, and that's a big deal.

[00:19:09] Maggie Rader: I think, cause that was 12 years ago, you know, the kid is, it's an adult now. And I, I still think about him a lot. I hope he's doing well.

[00:19:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for sharing that story. That's really impactful. So I'm curious, I know that like so many artists, lately you've sort of had to just, you know, switch gears a little bit, be a little more creative in your approach to continuing to do your art. And I, I know that you have something coming up. So do you mind sharing a little bit about, you know, maybe like what's happened, how you kind of transitioned during this time and sort of what's what's coming up for you?

[00:19:50] Maggie Rader: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's, it's been tough. I was running a really wonderful play called "Alabaster" by a good friend and playwright named Audrey Cefaly. And I was running that in March and we ended up having to close the last week of the show. And it was tough, but luckily I've been able to dive more into my writing, which has been fabulous. And it's not really, I've been writing a lot faster during COVID because I'm not having to memorize lines and go do shows at night. So I've actually been able to, I finished a full length called "The Helpers," which follows the story of Miep Gies, who helped the Frank family high during World War II. And it was supposed to have a workshop at DePaul University last May, and because of COVID, it was all virtual, which meant I didn't have to go up to Chicago once a week, which was probably helpful.

[00:20:39]But that play has been finished. And, the reading of, of it is online and able to view on my website. I've also written a play called "The Wonder," start to finish, which is a full length, since COVID hit. And it's about the true story, so they say, of the first documented spiritual possession in the United States, which took place in Watseka, Illinois. So I keep calling it an American Midwestern ghost story for mothers and daughters, and it's very sweet. But it it's about healing and connection. So I'm sure there's a reason why that's the story that kind of came to fruition during COVID. But it is a story about family and connection and deep, deep, deep healing. But it's lovely. It's just a little five hander that's about an hour and a half long and, we did a reading of it via Zoom, and that's also available on my website too. But then as an actor, it's been really great to see the theater companies, you know, trying to produce and create during this time and keeping their audience bases engaged.

[00:21:43]So normally right now, my husband and I would both be in rehearsals for the Christmas show at the Cincinnati Shakespeare Company called, "Every Christmas Story Ever Told," which is kind of a mashup of everyone's favorite holiday movies and books and things like that. It's very fun and silly. But since we can't do it this year instead, they got the four of us, the actors who would have done the show, together. And we did a lot of writing. So we kind of had a, you know, SNL style or writing session for a week. And then we recorded what we're calling "Drunk Santa's Holiday Spectacular." It's, it's very fun. It's silly. The four of us come over to Santa's apartment in the North Pole. And, you know, she's just not feeling up to delivering presents this year. And so we try to see what's on television to kind of get her spirits up and it's-- so I, we have, it's like we wrote our own Hallmark movie and a 92nd Hallmark movie, a sketch about the proud bucks that are trying to kidnap Rudolph because he's forcing them to wear masks.

[00:22:58] And, what else? I wrote something else for it, and I can't even think of it.  What else did we even do? It, like I filmed it two weeks ago. And these days in COVID the days are, the days are long and the weeks are short. So the Great British Baking Show. That's what I wrote. Right. So as, as hosts are coming and going so fast that, oh, who's the Hell's Kitchen guy, Gordon Ramsey. Gordon Ramsey is one of the new hosts on the Great British Baking Show and it's delightful and fun and silly. And, so we're just trying to mash up topical things from 2020, but also fun holiday traditions. And it's going to be about an hour long and it premieres, I think, December 4th is when, and you can get a DVD of it. You can stream it and watch it online, whatever's easiest for you, but it's, it's gonna be a lot of fun and hopefully a lot of laughs.

[00:24:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. I just, as soon as you said the title, I was like, "Oh, I'm in. Definitely. Oh, how fun!"

[00:24:08] Maggie Rader: It all started--the company used to do that show on a stage at a local bar called Arnold's, which is a lovely, it's the oldest, one of the two oldest operating bars in the United States. Like they still operated during prohibition, and so the show started on this itty bitty courtyard stage, and they needed kind of a stage manager. So they dressed up this wonderful Australian actress in town, and she was Drunk Santa, who was also pretending to be Drunk Santa, also pretty much being the stage manager and running sound cues and things like that. But now that the show is on our big stage and has-- I've been going now for 15 years--it's like, well, now Drunk Santa is just kind of a part of it. And since we were writing our own thing, it's finally time for it to be Drunk Santa show.

[00:24:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. I can't wait to watch this. I'm very excited. Well, awesome. I have a couple of questions that I love to ask my guests, if you're okay with that. Awesome. Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:25:15] Maggie Rader: Oh, what a good question. How do I define art or what is art to me? I think just expression. Yeah, expression. My mom is a wonderful visual artist and, I growing up, I wanted to be an artist because that's what my mom was. And when I realized I didn't have a lot of visual art skills, I was so sad that I was like, you can't be an artist. Like my mom and I, when I was wanting to do plays and things, I said, "Mom, does that still make you an artist?" She's like, "Well, yeah, of course it does." It's like, "Oh, thank God. I can still be an artist like my mom." And yeah, I think it's just expression, whatever it is to you. Because what is the opposite of art? Like stagnation? Yeah, I guess I just say expression.

[00:25:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Okay. I love it. Well. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:26:06] Maggie Rader: Oh, to connect, I'd say. You know, we were joking before we started rehearsing. It's like, "Oh, why does live theater still exist when movies are around?" And if you mess up, you can just start over and you only have to do it once then. But that's why live theater is still around. It's so much about connection. And I feel like out of all the, and maybe that's why I love the stage. It's, I feel like when you're doing live theater, you get to connect so much more than in other artistic mediums that I love, and enjoy, but it's not my particular passion. So yeah, I think the most important role is, or thing you can do, is to connect.

[00:26:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then my final question is, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And exclusive referring to somebody who puts their art out into the world and doesn't provide a whole lot of context behind it, so it's really up to the audience to kind of determine what they will. Versus inclusive referring to an artist who does share some context, whether that's a title or program notes or Q&A or anything like that.

[00:27:22]Maggie Rader:  What a good question. I, I don't know if I think that they're both completely separate things, I guess. And what a great discussion to have, you know, it's, as we talk about artists' work and, you know, enjoying Michael Jackson's body of work, even though he may have been a child predator. And I, I say may have been because he was never found guilty and, or, you know, R Kelly, can you enjoy people's work while knowing possibly the background of what was happening in their lives when they created it? And it's just such a good conversation to always be having. And also as artists, what a responsibility we have, you know. It's, my husband and I were having a long talk about politicians. We had our third member of city council in Cincinnati that was arrested this week for bribery charges. And we just talked about how, what a responsibility it is when you do go into the life of, of politics. Was Bill Clinton's impact on our society lessened because of what he did in his personal life? That you go into some professions and you have a greater responsibility that's bigger than yourself.

[00:28:45] And I feel like art is part of that. And because yes, I think, to use "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof," as an example, Maggie the Cat was based on a woman called Maria St. Just who was half Russian, half English, and just this force of a woman. And, you know, she was engaged to this dude who was very rich, a Prince of something or other. And, she went out and bought him a tie for every day of the week. Two for Sundays. And he was so embarrassed that she'd done that, that she'd spent all this money for ties and he said, "Well, what are you going to do with my money when we get married?" She said, "Oh, do you have some? Well, then I'll probably spend it." And he left her and they never got married. And she was like, "Well, that was, that's not fair. I was just honest with him."

[00:29:40] But there's this really great memoir of, like, I guess it's the letters that Tennessee Williams and Maria St. Just wrote back and forth when she was, you know, just starting out as an actor and, Tennessee Williams was a nobody writer and they met at a party and just had a wonderful friendship for the rest of his life until he died. And reading these letters back and forth, to me who was playing Maggie, it made that role so much deeper. And, you know, I've never seen Maggie as the villain of that story and even more so after I, I read the book, but if you wanted, it's fabulous, it's called "Five O'Clock Angel" and it's a wonderful book, but that play means so much more to me knowing whom Maria St. Just was. So, I guess I'd have to thank you for listening to me yammer on while I worked that out for myself.

[00:30:33] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it.

[00:30:34] Maggie Rader: Because at the risk of, of course, I guess it has to be inclusive because, I do have guilt when I enjoy Michael Jackson's art and that's for me-- you know, I, I will never judge someone else's line when it comes to that, I guess, but for me, I, his work is tainted now for me. R Kelly, like I can't watch "Space Jam" the same way, and that's probably a really small price to pay because you know, it's "Space Jam." But yeah, it's tainted for me, knowing the kinds of things that man has done, and which is why, you know, Tennessee Williams is one of my favorite playwrights because, I respect, you know, what he did for his sister and his mother. So when I read "Glass Menagerie," I can't divorce what he did for his, for his sister who was lobotimzed. When I read "Glass Menagerie," it brings so much more depth to that story for me. So, yeah, I guess inclusive. It should be inclusive decidedly. 

[00:31:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Very good. I actually really appreciate your working it out because it was-- I think that you bring actually a really good, unique perspective to this. And I, nobody has talked about it quite in those terms of how much the context matters to how you can personally enjoy it. And I really actually think that that's a really good point to make because that it does make a difference and, you know, to kind of dismiss that isn't particularly fair. 

[00:32:11] Maggie Rader: You know, be Banksy and keep her anonymity. And I guess that is valid as well, but also the anonymity of it is its own persona on it, of itself. So you still can't enforce it, can you?

[00:32:24]Lindsey Dinneen: In, indeed

[00:32:26] Maggie Rader: Oh, my brain just exploded.

[00:32:29] Lindsey Dinneen: There we go. Well, you never know what a conversation about art will do. Awesome. Okay. Well, so first of all, thank you so much, Maggie, for joining us today. I really, really appreciate it. Love your stories. You've got some absolutely fantastic ones. Yeah. And I was just wondering if any of us want to kind of get in touch with you or follow your work, especially watch your upcoming film, is there a way that we can do that?

[00:32:58] Maggie Rader: Absolutely. I try to keep my personal website up-to-date all the time. So if you go to, it's just my whole name, maggielourader.com. And my last name is spelled R A D E R, and on my home page, there is a link to Cincy Shakes' site where, 1) you can watch the trailer of the "Drunk Santa Holiday Spectacular," which is fun and delightful all on its own, and you can also purchase a DVD. You can purchase the streaming rights that'll be available on December 4th, but you can get your tickets now. And you can also go to my playwriting page. And if you want to see the Zoom readings of either "The Helpers" or "The Wonder," they're all up there. And you can absolutely contact me through my website or just sending an email, which is just my first and last name, Maggie Rader, R A D E R@live, L I V E.com. Or you can just do the Contact Me page on my website and it'll send me an email directly. So either one works.

[00:34:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Well, thank you. And I just want to say, you know, on behalf of myself and our listeners and all the people that you touch through your art, thank you for being a brave, bold person who stands up for when you know, the fox is in the fur or whatever, and you need to demonstrate that! But seriously, thank you so much for sharing your art with the world and for sharing it with kids that you teach and with adults that you have conversations with. I think that makes such a difference in people's lives. And, I just appreciate that that's what you've chosen to do with your life. So thank you.

[00:34:47] Maggie Rader: Thank you. Thank you so much for this. This is, I hope it's been fun for all, cause this has been just delightful to sit and chat with you.

[00:34:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, it has been delightful and I'm, I'm sure our readers feel the, or listeners--here we go--feel the same. I mean, you can read the transcript so it could be readers too. Well, thank you so much again, Maggie, and thank you to all of you who have listened to this episode. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.

[00:35:24] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:35:33]Hey Artfully Told listeners, it's Lindsey here. I want to say, first of all, thank you so very much for your continued support of Artfully Told for listening to the episodes and for being a part of bringing art to the world. I really believe that what we're doing is important and matters, and I'm just excited to share art with you on a continual basis. I do want to reach out to you.  I do the whole podcasts myself, from the interviews themselves, to the editing, to the transcribing, and then of course posting and all that good stuff. And I absolutely love what I do, but it is both time-consuming and expensive to run a podcast. I have to have the proper equipment. And then of course the proper editing software and hosting platform. And in order to continue to be able to do this on a sustainable basis for the future, I'm asking our listeners, if you guys would consider supporting the podcast even very small monthly donation, like $5 a month would really go a long way towards me being able to continue to do this in the future. And so I have set up a PayPal account that you can access through the Artfully Told website, which is www.artfullytold.podbean.com. And I would love if you would consider just making a monthly reoccurring donation to support the podcast. We don't have corporate sponsors, so everything that you hear is me doing this from a labor of love. And I love it, but I would ask if you would perhaps consider supporting it too. Thank you so much. Have an amazing day and I'll catch you next time.

In this episode, I welcome Anh Le! Anh is a student filmmaker in the Bay Area, currently working on producing a feature film addressing a story about Vietnamese culture and PTSD. She shares about her filmmaking journey, her advice for artists, and how to accomplish your biggest artistic goals! (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is artwork for Anh's new film, "Flaws of an Everlasting Memory.")

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Episode 29 - Anh Le

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:08] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:14] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.

[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.

[00:00:32]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to have as my guest today, Anh Le. She is a student filmmaker from the Bay Area who is working on a feature film that touches on Vietnamese culture and how people cope with PTSD. So she is actively working on projects that use art to change culture and opinions and everything that I just love that art can do. So I am so excited to have you today and to be able to share art with you. So thank you so much for being here, Ahn.

[00:01:16] Anh Le: Thank you very much, Lindsey, for having me here. I am so excited to share you about my endeavors for film and also to help filmmakers around here in the Bay Area and across the United States.

[00:01:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Well, I would love if you would share a little bit about your story, maybe some of your background, how you got into filmmaking, all those great things.

[00:01:39] Anh Le: Sure. I got to film probably much longer than I would have thought of, but I didn't realize it until I went out to college. In the past, I had worked with poetry, graphic design and prose, short stories, but haven't gotten in touch into film quite yet. I still remember back in 2012, when I was watching the Academy Awards for the first time. And there was the 50th anniversary of "The Sound of Music," one of my most favorite films of all time. I really want to get up there someday. And after getting into the film classes, I have a much more profound appreciation of the independent films that my professors have taught me. And from here, I don't think it matters whether I go to Hollywood or not, but I really want to utilize film to heal the wounds of society.

[00:02:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I think that's really amazing. And you know, at the very beginning we had briefly talked about, even before we got on that, you're actually working on a feature film right now. Can you tell us more about? Oh my goodness. What a cool opportunity that is just how that kind of all came about.

[00:02:53] Anh Le: Yeah, sure. Last semester I was in a screenwriting class and there was this story that I wanted to do as a short film, but after developing the story much further, I realized this has to be a feature film I need to make sometime while using the Vietnamese language. Because I was introduced to some films, like “Co Ba Saigon” and “Em Chua 18,” which are pretty great films and hilarious ones as well, but also has a really deep touch into there. With these films, I incorporate a lot of the French classic cinema style in here as well as some films like, "Her" and "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" to really great romance films and created "Flaws of an Everlasting Memory."

[00:03:40] This follows a story of a lonely uptime lexicographer who struggles to find love in Saigon while grappling with untimely death of his first love. A lexicographer is someone who studies about the language that they're given and they also see how it evolves and how it can be incorporated into the dictionary. I thought it was fascinating because when I took Vietnamese classes at a younger age, I thought that I would be adequate enough to understand what people are saying and I'm writing about. But when I went over to Vietnam, there seems to be a huge change in how people use slang and also interact with each other. So I want to utilize that evolution for this film and also twist this romance with a little bit of mental health to show that sometimes we don't need to find the perfect person for companionship. Sometimes companionship can be found just within five steps of each other, such as your best friend, or maybe your coworker. Or someone that, that you've been in a long time getting in touch with.

[00:04:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's incredible. And what a cool story to have gone from potentially this short story to fully kind of evolved. So are you still in the writing process or are you more already into the production process and all of that?

[00:05:12]Anh Le: In this film, I actually just recently finished translating the script. Of course, there will be minor changes along the way. I have selected actors that are suitable for the roles I'm looking for. And I also have to identify maybe there's a certain way they say something that I might change it, or maybe the works that I've provided for them, it's a bit stilted. And it's not comfortable with them. So I might change that too. But for the most part, the story structure has been solid at the moment. My team and I are focusing on a Holly Jolly Fundraiser. Now this is one of the more expensive films we're working on, although in the industry, they consider this as, I believe a medium, moderate, low budget. It's in the $325,000 range. And it's crazy. This is a low, a low budget, but we're doing our best to reach out to potential donors. And we've been fiscally sponsored by a wonderful nonprofit called From the Heart Productions who focuses on supporting indie filmmakers like us, that intend to make an impact in society.

[00:06:27]Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah, and so that's probably a new area, even for you to explore perhaps with the fundraising aspect, but how has COVID and all the precautions and all the things that you need to take, how has that affected your process?

[00:06:45] Anh Le: Originally, I was intending to switch to a different profession, which is web design or communications, because it was something that was, that seemed more stable compared to some of the art related careers. A lot of the film industry has shut down and right now they're slowly trying to get back up as more people are trying to get the content out there. But I was fortunate enough to have met a colleague who I met at my college, and she's also the family advisory board at my university. She helps me a lot and understanding about the pursuit of dreams. And she's, she's really the one who got me back in check. I consider her as a fairy godmother to me. And from there I've been utilizing my knowledge to help all filmmakers. Whenever I network with them, I also shared my knowledge on how to network with people, how to get fundraising for donors. And also some photography tips, because I also love to do photography as a hobby, especially modeling photography.

[00:07:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Excellent. And so do you have any kind of timeline in mind or is it still sort of in process and we'll see how it goes?

[00:08:08] Anh Le: Our goal is to do the music recording at Skywalker Sound. So this studio has been known for doing sound mixing and also music producing for, for example, "The Last Black Man in San Francisco," some Pixar films, and even some Star Wars films. I have a very talented music producer named Logan Gammill, who I met at West Valley College. I was introduced by a friend and he's been helping me a lot with the original score. And composing the original song ever since. So this victory, and I want, I want him to achieve his full recording there as well. When it comes to the production itself, we intend to do it in July . Of course, this may change or hinder depending of the conditions of COVID-19, but we hope to get all the cast and crew here in the Bay Area to bring this film to life.

[00:09:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. That is so cool. This must be such an amazing dream come true. I can only imagine how excited you must feel, but it's, it's massive. So on a day-to-day basis, how are you prioritizing tasks and things like that? I mean, this is, it's a fantastic undertaking, but at times I would imagine it would feel a little maybe daunting.

[00:09:32] Anh Le: Yes, it is, it is kind of shocking. I have a few colleagues that told me, like, why are you doing a feature film? Like, you know, you could have, you could've done a short film instead, and this is the craziest thing. And I look at myself and I was like, yeah, this is crazy. Why did I, why did I move on with this? You could have stopped me. But, so I, I am very fortunate to have producers who work with me a lot whom are students attending schools in the Bay Area. And I'm, unto myself and attending school while getting involved in clubs. There's a lot of time management here, but with what I've done at my college, I think I can handle this workload so far. And I wouldn'd have been able to focus a lot with the artistic side without my friends' support.

[00:10:19] So I have some people who are involved in, for example, business administration, psychology. And these, there are some students who are not filmmakers, but the quality of their work has convinced me to have them involve my team. They're great colleagues that I've worked with so far, and they have done some outstanding work such as the website, the fundraising plan. And we have also reached out to grants and full festival opportunities across some of the world.

[00:10:50] Lindsey Dinneen: That is really cool. And so out of curiosity, do you plan to film mostly in the Bay Area or does the film, will you end up being filmed a few other places or how's that all gonna work out?

[00:11:06] Anh Le: For the majority part, yes, we will be filming in the Bay Area. We will be utilizing some spaces in San Francisco. I haven't contacted this place yet, but there's a beautiful library at UC Berkeley. I've been seeing some pictures. And this is where my inspiration comes to mind for a particular library scene in my film, and also utilizing San Jose and some nearby locations as well. Even though my film takes place in Saigon, due to the financial limitations, it may not be achievable, but I believe I can try to accommodate the look with what the Bay Area can offer. I mean, for example, I, I actually learned from the movie "Her," although the story seems to take place in Southern California, they also had shot their scenes in Shanghai and I didn't realize it. And it was incredible what they can do with the visual manipulation and creativity.

[00:12:05]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, when you're dedicated and willing to be creative and to creatively solve things, then of course the world is so much more open to you. So that's, that's really cool to hear. I commend you. So I'm, I'm curious, obviously you have a lot of passion for the film and for the story, what sort of settled you on this particular storyline, especially perhaps if you're willing to speak to the mental health aspect of it, which is so important to talk about. But what kind of led you to realize, or whatever that this was something that really needed, a story that really needed to be told?

[00:12:50]Anh Le: I was actually first inspired by a short film I worked on called “Sarah King” with Colby Cao, and in this story, it tells us about a sister who was struggling to mourn over her older sister's loss. My taking in bad things like, like drugs, and from there, I felt that PTSD, I had watched some films and heard different stories about PTSD and they come in different levels and different experiences. So I want to test out and see what I can do in the shadow of romance, because there must have been people who have experienced trauma of losing a loved one in the past. And I want to understand how people cope with it. There are a lot of families and communities right now who don't understand too much about mental health and they, they might've think of this as something that can easily be gone away, like you'll have some medication or you'll heal in time, but what the people who might contact and learn about there are some mental health, like PTSD that lingers for a much longer time. And I want to bring out for that in the spotlight. So that way people can understand, "Oh, this is how some people may experience it." And of course, while this, this movie is a fictional story, everyone experiences mental health in different levels in different ways. And in order to help them out, we also need to understand their story, their background. And from there we are, we'll be able to utilize our strengths and our community connections in order to support them rather than saying, "Oh, this, this is something that can be easily bored away with time."

[00:14:50]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. So I'm curious,  we kind of learned how you got into filmmaking, but I'm curious--since obviously you're interested in the arts in general-- how did you come to the conclusion that filmmaking was the best way to tell this story? I'm sure that it is, but I'm just curious since there are in theory, other ways to share this story, have you ever considered other paths, or is filmmaking like--well, it, it needs to be told this way for this reason?

[00:15:24] Anh Le: I have done poetry, short story writing. Those have never been published before. I mostly, most likely did it with my school assignments and also for the scholarship opportunities. And as a hobby, I felt that what's filmmaking--a lot of people would be able to have much wider access when it comes to the visual representation, because I do have some symbolism in mine that connects more or less with the Vietnamese culture that may not be obtained with a book, or written material in general. I feel that by utilizing film, not only are we able to engage a lot with the language and the overall look, but also with sound, because sound I recall from my classes is 50% of your fill or actually even more. And without sound, we wouldn't be really able to perceive the intensity and depth of the film. There are a lot of people who think visuals are important, but visuals can only extend you so far. Like in, I remember when I was traveling, in Vietnam the way, obviously the way people talk was different from here in the Bay Area, the ambulance sounds were different. The sirens of the police cars were definitely different. And also the texture and the field environment is different. Even though Saigon, we have this metropolis city that's growing, it's different from the look that we see in New York or Chicago or even San Francisco. And you can definitely tell when you, whenever you traveled there.

[00:17:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That makes complete sense. Thank you. Well, I'm also curious, so, are there any stories that come to mind either from growing up or maybe even in this process of creating this film where you just had this moment of connecting with art in some way, and you thought, "Wow, I have to remember this because this is a moment that matters that, where art made an impact."

[00:17:42]Anh Le: I would say, it's pretty weird to say that a lot of the films I've made come from my dreams and sometimes they come with different blurbs. I just don't understand where it would go. Like I, I remember I was dreaming for this particular film there was an argument between, the two main characters and this came from an inspiration, as I said, from a short film, I was working on. I was thinking about it. And for some reason, like three to four weeks, I was stuck in, in this dream trying to understand, "Okay, what are the characters arguing about?" What are they, what are stressing about, what are the flaws that we have here? And after that, it was a challenge actually writing this particular story in order because of the twist that is involved. I had to work backwards. So I, I had written the ending. I knew what would happen to the characters, but I didn't know how to begin it. So I had to float us backwards. I had worked on a couple other scripts that deal with different social topics. And at the same time, they're more or less inspired by other films I've seen that come into dream as well. Of course, I don't remember every single one of my dream, but when I do remember, I jot it down in the book. Sometimes the dreams may not relate each other. And when I have an assignment or something that I can think of, that's when I really put these pieces together and understand what my characters are doing and why they want to achieve their goals.

[00:19:19]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And what a fascinating writing process, the fact that, yeah, you started with the ending and then worked backwards from there. I kind of love that. I haven't ever actually written them, but I've had a few instances of things like that, where I thought," Oh, this is a good ending, but I don't even know how to begin it." So that's pretty cool. Excellent. Well, you had mentioned earlier with your networking and trying to help other artists as well--and I love that, I think that's so important, especially collaboration-- but is there any particular advice that you would give to someone who wants to pursue a artistic endeavor, especially-- well, actually, let me just start there and then I'll ask a follow-up question.

[00:20:05] Anh Le: For someone who's pursuing an artistic endeavor in general, I would stretch out what kind of goals you want to achieve. For example, in five years, in 10 years, because I have met very talented people who have changed their position from being an artist to maybe something that's more substantial. Like I said, computer engineering, communications, business administration, but at the same time that people have met, they haven't solidified down what kind of projects or goals that they want to make. So I would first find that out because that will more or less determined how you want to pursue a goal. Because without that, without those goals, if you just want to become a filmmaker, that may be a challenge to really going for what kind of position you want. At the same time for filmmaking, they come in so many different avenues. You can utilize it for commercialism. I'm sure a lot of business, they will need this kind of art in order to promote their products as well. So we've seen that out in the field and not the same time. YouTube is highly accessible. So really understanding your goals, making plans and really going forward them will help you pursue a lot more in the art field rather than just saying, "Oh, I want to become an artist and I'm going to make stuff."

[00:21:38]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Thank you for that. I think that is really incredible advice. And I want to highlight something that you said that I often also say, especially when I am talking about pursuing dreams--but you had said that there are many avenues, and I think that's such an important concept of--you know, as an artist, flexibility is sort of part of the job, but that's an exciting element of the job. So there are always so many avenues to a dream. And if one particular one doesn't quite pan out the way that you thought, there are so many more, if you're willing to explore them. So thank you for that, because I think that's just a very incredibly important observation.  And then my part B for that question is what you're doing is undertaking a huge dream and goal. And I have so much admiration and respect for that. I think that that is incredible. What kind of advice would you give to someone who has a dream on that scale?

[00:22:49] Anh Le: For that scale, again, I would say understand your goals and how you want to go forth with your career--and when you make the plans for those of course, I'm sure COVID-19 has ruined a lot of plans for everyone--but backup plans also help us well. I've also met artists who have full-time jobs and part-time jobs with their main career. And you like see film as part of their main dream. You know, some people have been secretly making films in the attic or in the backyard or something, and it worked out. Some of them have won festivals and such. So really art doesn't need too much. It really needs a goal to motivate people to pursuing it. Because without that, I mean, it will be very difficult to strive for your dream if you don't have a vision for it.

[00:23:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, so true. Thank you for that. That was great. Well, I have a few questions that I always like to ask my guests if you're okay with that.

[00:23:58] Anh Le: No problem, ask away.

[00:24:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Wonderful. So, first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:24:07] Anh Le: To me, art is something where for me I can utilize to heal the wounds of society. But it's also a very interesting way of expressing storytelling because I've seen, for example, abstract art, and I'm an artist myself too. So sometimes I see it and I just connected with things maybe, for example, the sun or, or like the womb of someone, every person sees art differently. And, even with one movie, people can say so many things. For example, like, one person can say, "Oh, from this movie, I learned more about domestic abuse and the effects of it." But another person might say, "I've learned about the importance of having a mentor in life." So you can have one movie. It's the same exact story. But so many different takes. And I think art has pursued the same way, because it is a way where we share, we share stories and everyone takes, has different take based on how they were raised, how they were influenced by art and so forth.

[00:25:21]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. Great. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:25:28] Anh Le: The most important role of an artist? I believe it's really getting their story out there because again, stories can come in so many different forms from sculptures and ceramics and everything that you can imagine. I know a lot of people of color are really trying to get their stories out there in the industry. And definitely there has been much more opportunity for them than there has ever before though. So, in COVID-19 the opportunities now, people can start connecting with each other much more easily, rather than going face-to-face and location that might cost them, might have much more cost to an artist anticipated. So really taking the opportunity now to share these stories, or even put these stories in development. So that way they could bring more awareness to the world or even enhance a beauty of a particular culture.

[00:26:24]Lindsey Dinneen:  I love that. Okay. And then my final question, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is for inclusive, the artist shares something, you know, what they've created with the world and gives a little bit of context behind that could be as simple as a title, or it could be something where it's program notes, or an explanation of what the artist was thinking, versus exclusive referring to an artist who puts their art out into the world and doesn't provide much context behind it. So it's more up to the audience to decide. If that makes sense.

[00:27:07] Anh Le: Wow, this is one of those questions you got me stumped. So I really believe it depends on the artist itself, because for me, I want to be inclusive and exclusive on my art because not only am I going to share my narrative towards my community, but also want to see the unique perspectives that they will provide to the film. Because, that will allow me to know, "Oh, this is what they pay attention to. This is what's significant to them." Maybe for some other artists, they rather be more inclusive or they'd rather be more exclusive. It really depends on each person. And,  everything has a storytelling process. So each person, they're first in what perspective they want to tell. That's, that's what I have to say.

[00:27:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Thank you. So I'm curious, is there a way for us to kind of keep in step with you a little bit as you work towards the production of this film and maybe connect with you personally, especially if anyone's seeking additional advice, is there a way for us to do that?

[00:28:16] Anh Le: Sure. I have a website for my feature film. So the feature film title is "Flaws of an Everlasting Memory" and yes, it is a long title. So we narrowed it down to the initials FOAEM.com. It has all the informations for all of our film, and I believe there is an About page where you can reach out to the creative team, with the email, LinkedIn, and maybe even their portfolios. I know I put my portfolio up there if anyone wants access to it. And, I'd be more than happy to connect with anyone who would simply like to network or is looking for advice, or wants to have a tea day out because I, I sure do love drinking tea during this time of quarantine, and connecting with people.

[00:29:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And then would there be a way--is your fundraising that you're doing right now--say some of our listeners are inspired to help support your endeavor--is there a way for them to do this? Is this a public fundraiser that they can participate in?

[00:29:25] Anh Le: Yes, there is a public fundraiser. So we put up this campaign called the Holly Jolly Campaign and the link,  it is tinyurl.com/foaemhjc2020. In this campaign, we provide different perks that include our work of poetry, graphic design, and specifically for those in the Bay Area, we would offer photography services because, you can have included for your portfolio, your biography, LinkedIn, and whatsoever. But the other two perks are much more accessible to a wider community. They were more than happy to share these perks with any donation that they're able to provide.

[00:30:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you again so very much for being my guest today. You were awesome. I completely comend everything that you're doing. Congratulations. This is so cool. I personally cannot wait to follow your journey and success and future success. So thank you so much for being here and for sharing your art with the world. I know that what you're doing is making a difference and it will bring about some change. And so thank you so much.

[00:30:49] Anh Le: Yeah, thank you very much for having me involved, Lindsey. I'm looking forward to see more artists coming from your podcast because I surely love enjoying listening on your stories and support.

[00:31:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, and thank you so much for everyone who has listened to this episode. I truly appreciate your support. And I hope that you have a day that is absolutely fantastic. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am, I would love if you would share this episode with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.

[00:31:26] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:31:35] Hey, Artfully Told listeners, it's Lindsey here. I want to say, first of all, thank you so very much for your continued support of Artfully Told, for listening to the episodes, and for being a part of bringing art to the world. I really believe that what we're doing is important and matters, and I'm just excited to share art with you on a continual basis. I do want to reach out to you. I do the whole podcasts myself from the interviews themselves to the editing, to the transcribing, and then of course posting and all that good stuff. And I absolutely love what I do, but it is both time-consuming and expensive to run a podcast. I have to have the proper equipment, and then of course the proper editing software and hosting platform. And in order to continue to be able to do this on a sustainable basis for the future, I'm asking our listeners, if you guys would consider supporting the podcast. Even a very small monthly donation, like $5 a month, would really go a long way towards me being able to continue to do this in the future. And so I have set up a PayPal account that you can access through the artfully told website, which is www.artfullytold.podbean.com. And I would love if you would consider just making a monthly reoccurring donation to support the podcast. We don't have corporate sponsors. So everything that you hear is me doing this from a labor of love. And I love it, but I would ask if you would perhaps consider supporting it too. Thank you so much. Have an amazing day and I'll catch you next time.

In this episode, I welcome Kim Pierce! Kim is a makeup and hair artist, and the owner of The Piercing Beauty. She shares about her very first makeup kit as a young girl, to the unique opportunities she had while pursuing her college degree in theater, to what gives her joy as she works with her clients today. (Fun fact: the cover image for the episode is of a photo taken by Helen Ransom with Faces You Love Photography, featuring makeup and hair by Kim!)

Get in touch with Kim Pierce: http://www.thepiercingbeauty.com/ | https://www.facebook.com/thepiercingbeauty | [email protected] | https://www.instagram.com/thepiercingbeauty/ 

Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart

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Episode 28 - Kim Pierce

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.

[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.

[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to have as my guest today the absolutely lovely Kim Pierce, who is the founder and owner of The Piercing Beauty. And she is an amazing makeup artist, as well as, she does hair. And I'm sure that just scratches the surface of your talents, Kim, but thank you so much for being here.

[00:01:04] Kim Pierce: Well, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

[00:01:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And so I was wondering, would you mind just sharing a little bit about yourself and maybe your story? How did you get into all this?

[00:01:19] Kim Pierce: Well, I think it was kind of a foregone conclusion that I was going to end up in makeup. When I was four, my mom got me this little makeup set, and I have a picture of my face when it was given to me. And you would have thought that she handed me like a pile of diamonds, because I was so excited. I mean that little waxy, nasty smelling kit that had no pigmentation and, you know, it was pretty much just dollar store stuff. I was so excited and into it, and that kind of just set me up for future asking for more makeup. And as I got older, my mom didn't wear makeup. Like never, didn't wear makeup. Didn't really do her hair. It just didn't interest her. And one time, she got sucked in by a Mary Kay lady. And so she bought tons of stuff because she was like, "I'm going to wear this every day. It's going to happen." And about two weeks later, she forfeited her entire collection to me and said, "I don't want any of this. I'm never going to use it. You play with it." And so all of a sudden I had this treasure trove of makeup to play with and learn with. And so I was about 10 then. And then I asked for Kevyn Aucoin makeup books for Christmas. And I spent hours recreating those looks and learning everything I could from these books, because back then YouTube was not a thing.

[00:02:38] And so I just gleaned everything I could from them. And by the time it was time to choose a career. The only thing I could think of was makeup. That was the only thing that even sounded plausible to do. And so instead of going to cosmetology school, my dad said you have got to get a degree. So I was like, okay, what degrees can you get with makeup in them? And so that led me to a theater degree. So I went to Emporia State University and I studied theater. And one of my interests obviously was makeup. And so I took every class that they had possible to take. And then I started doing independent studies and just finding any information that I could find. And they hired a couple of experts to come in and teach me, which was really, really cool. And so that just kind of grew from there. And eventually I got a job at Sephora after I got married and learned from people there. And then finally I decided to start my own business and start freelancing. And that's led me to the last couple of years where I met Helen at Faces You Love Photography. And she hired me to do hair and makeup for her newborn mamas. So these moms come in and they're just exhausted and tired and all they want to do is not look like they're exhausted and tired. And so she brought me in to help with that, and that's where I'm at now. And it's wonderful and amazing.

[00:04:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, wonderful. I love your story. That's so fun. Oh my goodness. I do remember those really cheap--and maybe you can still buy them, I'm sure you can--but those really cheap makeup sets where you're kind of a little concerned about what's actually in them, because yeah. It can't be good. Oh man.

[00:04:23] Kim Pierce: I definitely wouldn't buy them for a child nowadays, but you know, it was a different world back then.

[00:04:29] Lindsey Dinneen: It was. It's all good. Excellent. And so, okay, so that is so cool. So you have this theater background as well. Were you also interested in the acting or producing or any part of it besides the makeup or was makeup just like always your focus?

[00:04:48] Kim Pierce: Well, at ESU, Emporia State University, where I went, they had a cohesive program. You learned everything. We learned lighting, design and sound design, costume design and everything all in one. And so I had the opportunity to do everything. I acted and was in a couple of shows, but by the time I got further into my college career, I realized that I really need to be needed to focus on what I was actually going to do after I got out of there. So that pulled me back towards makeup and that's where all the independent studies came in. And, then I started designing a couple shows. I designed the musical at ESU my senior year, which is the largest, like that's our moneymaker, like every year you do that one, and that's what really takes care of the program that the rest of the shows make money and it's great, but that's like the big one. We have to get this right. And so that was a true honor to, to take part in that. And so I did that once at the end of my senior year. And then, once after I graduated, actually I got hired on to do the next musical. So that was pretty cool, but I did a lot of different things within the department. So it definitely set up a strong work ethic because theater is a lot of work and I'm very grateful for that because--whew! I, I knew I'd have to hustle to be a makeup artist. And that is exactly what theater taught me to do. And to just be a people person. Theater is all about, you know, dealing with different types of people and talking to them and bringing out what makes them special, what makes them them. And that has really helped me on my journey to becoming a makeup artist.

[00:06:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I, I can imagine. That's excellent. Yeah. And, oh my goodness, what a cool opportunity to--I mean, obviously--just even your senior year getting to design a musical, but getting to do that a second time later. How cool is that?

[00:06:47] Kim Pierce: I was definitely on cloud nine.

[00:06:49] Lindsey Dinneen: I can only imagine. Yeah, that's amazing. So I'm just curious. Do you still use your theatrical makeup background? I mean, like, have you done theater makeup since in any capacity?

[00:07:03] Kim Pierce: You know, I really haven't. The only way my theater makeup skills come out is really just Halloween. And I used to, when I worked at Sephora, we had Sephora-ween. And so that was, you know, every cast member would dress up, not dress up, just do their makeup as a different theme every time you came to work. And so that was super fun to show off the theatrical makeup skills that I had. And, really get to play and have more fun. But theater makeup is just not where my heart lies. So it's more of a fun place to visit, but not a place to stay. Beauty makeup and that dramatic, fun, like smokey eyes and all of that. That's where I live. I want to make women feel beautiful. So I love theater makeup, and it will always have a wonderful place in my heart, but I definitely prefer the other side of beauty.

[00:07:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And so having a role like yours--I'm sure with every artist and every profession and everything--I'm sure there are days when it feels more repetitive because it's-- I'm just throwing this out there. It seems like, you know, on some level it's essentially the same thing day after day. So what continues to inspire you to do it? I'm just really curious.

[00:08:21] Kim Pierce: Well, you know, you're right. It can get daunting to do, you know, the same natural face over and over. Because we're in Kansas, you know, people aren't coming into their family sessions saying, you know what, I'm going to try that plum lip. They're not, they're not into the, you know, what I would consider the exciting parts of beauty, but on the other side of that, taking a person who, you know, may not wear much makeup and you don't apply much makeup, but what you do is bring out their unique features and the things that they like about themselves, and they see themselves in a different way. And you did that. It may be boring to you, but it's everything to them. And I think that's when it kind of turns around is that, that final look in the mirror when they look at themselves and their eyes brighten, and they're just like, "Oh my gosh." And you think you haven't done anything super special, but to them, it's really meaningful because they've never really seen themselves that way.

[00:09:16] And I think that's what brings back the passion, where it just makes you feel really good about what you've done and you're like, "Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, you know, maybe it wasn't as boring as I thought," because it had an end result that was fascinating and fulfilling, and I just love that part of it. But I also get really excited when somebody comes in and is like, you know what, I really want to go for it. Let's do like a smokey eye or a bold lip. And I'm like, "Heck yeah, let's do that." And then that's another time where it's just like super exciting. And we get to have a little bit more fun and play a little bit more. And that kind of helps break up some of the, the boredom of doing, you know, a neutral face over and over.

[00:09:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that makes complete sense. That sounds fun. Oh man, I'm still chuckling a little bit internally about the, you know, showing up to your family reunion with the pictures, you know, this dramatic, evening look. I kinda like it. I might do that one day.

[00:10:10] Kim Pierce: You should. You should. It wouldn't make anybody look at you strangely.

[00:10:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. It'll just be very entertaining. Oh, my goodness. I love that. And so, okay, so how long have you been on your own with your own business?

[00:10:23]Kim Pierce: The business started in 2014. So that's when I started like to put together my website and really start to market myself to other people. And I had a couple of friends that hired me to do their weddings and things like that. And so I just started taking pictures of everything I could and trying to document that so people could see what I did, and I put myself on Yelp, and honestly, Yelp was a huge deal for my business. And all of a sudden people started calling and I built up more clientele and more clientele. And I try not to keep myself too busy because my focus is on my family. And that's one of the great things that this career allows me to do is, yes, I need a hustle and keep going, but I also get to choose my own schedule so that when my kids have something I'm available and I think that's--I mean, it's an amazing part of this career. Being able to come back to my kids or be there for them instead of just, you know, being gone all the time.

[00:11:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. That's a huge gift. Yeah, so very cool. Okay. And then, so nowadays I know you're working so closely with Helen. Do you, I imagine you still have your, your other clients on the side as well, or is it, has it shifted a little bit, or how does that whole thing work?

[00:11:42] Kim Pierce: Oh, well, I was very lucky a few years ago-- Helen, well, I guess it was about a year ago--Helen came to me and said, "You know what? I think I want to move from just doing like the newborn mamas getting their hair and makeup done, but extending it to family pictures and headshots and maternity photos," and just expanding you within her business. And I was like, "Yeah. Let's do that like yesterday." So we started to do more shoots together and that has changed everything. I've been able to keep a more consistent schedule. I've been able to make more money, obviously, but I still dedicate quite a bit of time to the wedding industry and doing special events. And I always help my friends when they come my way. But I think my favorite thing that I've been doing recently has been taking young girls when their moms bring them in and we make an appointment and we do like a little lesson and a consultation, and then I take them out shopping. We go to Ulta or wherever, and we do basically--I just take them and I'm a personal shopper, help them find what products would work for them, what they need, what they don't need, what they can spend money on, what they should save money on.

[00:12:49]And then taking them back to their house and teaching them how to use everything. It has been such a fulfilling part of my business is taking people on the same journey that I went on so many years ago by myself. And I love being there for them because it was--I mean, it wasn't bad being by myself learning all of this--but I think it would have been really nice to have somebody kind of take me along and teach me more things rather than me having to figure it all out on my own. So that's been a really fulfilling part of my business is getting to, to show young girls how to start wearing it.

[00:13:23] Lindsey Dinneen: That is so cool. And it's so funny too, because do you, do you ever end up doing that with women as well? Because I feel like there's, there's a decent percentage of us who never have quite learned.

[00:13:38] Kim Pierce: Yes. And I absolutely do. And it is, it is so much fun. I've done it with several girls that I met through Helen. They've been like, "You know what, since we had our pictures taken, I really would like some lessons 'cause I like what you did here. I like how you made this look like this." And so I'm like, "Yeah, let's, let's go." And so we, we go shopping and we spend time together and I get paid to have fun and spend time with these women. And it's just, it's incredible.

[00:14:05] Lindsey Dinneen: That's fantastic. That's a dream job right there. I love it. Well, I know Kim, you have a couple of things that kind of stood out to you, maybe to share with us. I would just love to hear some of your stories if you don't mind.

[00:14:20] Kim Pierce: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, what I've said first is that the newborn moms, when they come in to Helen's studio and they've got this newborn, that's like 10 days old, maybe less. And they are exhausted. They are barely awake on their feet. And then, they're just so dead tired and they look in the mirror and they're like, "Ugh, I just look terrible." And I'm like, "No, let's, let's do this." And so we, I just take a few minutes. They're pretty much sleeping in my chair as I try to make conversation. And I'm like, "You know what? You sleep." And by the time they're, they come back around and they're like, "Hey, wow. I look awake. I look human. I look like a normal person." And I'm like, "Yay!" That is such a great experience to have her just be so excited to just look like she remembered herself looking a few months ago. And that is just super exciting to me. And I mean, one of the best things about doing this, and if I can make that postpartum experience that we all are aware of can be just a little bit hellish--if I can just make that a tiny little bit better for them-- that, I mean, that means all the difference. And so I have to just remember that during those times where I'm just doing the neutral makeup over and over, I'm just making them look more awake and more alert.

[00:15:35] That art is in the natural and corrective makeup, just as much as the glamorous high-drama makeup. It's all important. It just has, I mean, everybody has different tastes on what they're needing or wanting in that particular situation. And so I have to keep reminding myself of that. And that goes back to the other question you asked about, does it get boring? And yeah, sometimes it does, but just remember that the skills involved in doing natural and corrective makeup may be slightly different, but it still goes back to bone structure and it still goes back to highlighting contour, and how all of that works together. And the joy on someone's face when they see what they look like is just, you just can't beat it.

[00:16:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. That, that is really cool. Those moments of sort of, yeah, almost transformation of realizing, "Oh, okay. Yeah. The confidence boosting and I, okay. I'm ready for this now." Maybe on some level beforehand, they were, you know, a little apprehensive or worried it wouldn't show them off the way that they would want.

[00:16:42] Kim Pierce: So many times they come into the studio and they're like, "Thank goodness I didn't have to try to get myself ready this morning." And part of that is Helen's genius of hiring a hair and makeup artist just for, for these moms to be able to come in and not have to have prepped themselves at all, other than they have clothes on and their babies there, that's it. That's all they have to worry about. And, Helen's idea behind all of this was to make us moms, and women in general, exist in pictures because we don't like pictures taken of ourselves. We're extremely critical of ourselves all the time. We don't like what we look like. We don't like the way we fix our own hair. We don't like the way we do our own makeup. We, you know, we don't like the big zit on our face. And this, you know, when people were coming in to get their pictures taken, Helen would be like, "All right, you go and jump in." And they're like, "No, my hair's not done. I look a mess. Just take pictures of the baby."

[00:17:38] And they're losing out on all of those pictures they could have had with their child. And someday those children will look back on those pictures and there will be nothing of their own parents there to look at. And those pictures is just so precious. Those moments will just slip by so fast. And if we can make the mother feel confident enough to be in those pictures, then that's a huge achievement that she's willing to get in there. And keep those photos forever for their children to see in the future. It's just, wow. It's just a huge thing. And I credit Helen with that to be thinking about those things and to be inviting women into the studio to get ready there so that they can feel their most confident in front of her camera. And I just think that's just absolutely incredible.

[00:18:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, it is. Yeah. It's a great concept and I think you're absolutely spot on with all of it. And I just, I think that's really special what you all provide. So yeah. Thank you for doing that.

[00:18:38] Kim Pierce: I'm just following her brainchild.

[00:18:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, there you go. You're a part of the magic. 

[00:18:43] Kim Pierce: I'm very grateful that for Helen to bring me along on that journey, because it has been incredible.

[00:18:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. So, how has--just out of  curiosit-- how has all this crazy changed your approach to what you do? I mean, have you had to adapt or change processes or anything like that?

[00:19:06] Kim Pierce: Yeah, well, it's definitely been tough. The financial side, I mean, we're all good there, 'cause my husband has a wonderful job and that allowed me to relax during the quarantine so that I could just figure out all of the protocols that I need to follow going into doing makeup after COVID, because there's not a lot of guidelines for makeup artists, as far as just cleanliness and especially in COVID. I mean, yes, we wash our brushes. Yes, we use alcohol to wipe things down, but it had to be taken a step further. And luckily, a lot of the processes that I personally had in place and had gleaned from Sephora were still pretty well on COVID guidelines. The only things I added, obviously, was a mask. I added a couple of bins to hold product in after I've taken it out of my kit so that it can all be sanitized before it's put back in the kit. And I did wear gloves for a while, but honestly, gloves were a recommendation that they kept going back and forth on and it made it very difficult for me, especially without the warmth of my skin, loved my fingertips to blend things. So I finally gave up on the gloves and I just sanitized like every five seconds. I don't know that there's any way to be a hundred percent safe, but I'm doing what I can to make sure that it's as safe as possible.

[00:20:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, of course. So with the hair component, was that something that you--that obviously it's, it's complementary of course to makeup--but was it something that you had actively kind of pursued as well? Or was it something that was more like, this is a complementary skill.

[00:20:46] Kim Pierce: Yeah, it is 100 percent a complementary skill. My talent does not truly lie in hair. I get by with hair. I, my talent and my passion is for makeup. I really started doing hair because most photographers that I worked with wanted somebody who did both. They didn't want to hire two separate people. And so I took what I had learned from theater. 'Cause I had worked on wigs and hair during the shows. I took what I learned there. And then I tried to take a couple of other courses and talk to some artists and try to kind of put some skills together. And I always say, I am a makeup artist that does a little hair. I am not a hair artist that does makeup. Don't, don't get it twisted. And so I also make sure that everyone knows I don't really do updos. I do braids and curls and volume, and that's about where we stop. But pretty much any makeup you come to me with, I'm like, "Yeah, let's do that. I can do that." But the hair is just not as much my strong suit.

[00:21:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Fair enough. Well, I was going to say, I, I, yes, your work is lovely. So.

[00:21:54] Kim Pierce: Well, thank you.

[00:21:55]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, so, okay. So, kind of moving forward, do you anticipate continuing sort of along the same trajectory as far as you know. Obviously the partnership with Helen is so great. Are you hoping to-- let's say wedding season resumes--are you hoping to do that as well? Or are you really kind of just narrowing down at this time?

[00:22:17] Kim Pierce: Honestly, I like doing it all and now that I'm not working in a retail job or any other position, I'm able to dedicate all my time to this. I mean, other than being a mom, so I don't anticipate stopping anything I'm doing. I will work with Helen as long as she wants me to, until she boots me out of there. 'Cause I just love it so much. And I'm so grateful for that opportunity. So I'll stay there forever and any other opportunity that comes my way I will definitely reach out for. I have a couple of photographers that I've been talking to about doing some boudoir sessions. And so I'm really excited about that because that's fun and hair and makeup. I mean all the time, all a hundred percent fun. So I think that's going to be pretty cool, but any opportunity that comes my way, I'm just going to keep plugging along. And I'll still do weddings, I think, unless it starts interfering with the kids' activities, but honestly, I book maybe once a month for a wedding to kind of keep that time held for my kids. So I don't anticipate anything going any other direction. I actually have one tomorrow cause...

[00:23:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh!

[00:23:23] Kim Pierce: Even with COVID, people are still getting married, even if they're smaller and less grand than the original celebration that they were planning on.

[00:23:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, excellent. Are there any other encounters with art that really kind of stand out to you, whether it was, you know, your own experience with a client or whether it was your own personal experience with a different art form or something like that, that really was like this--oh, man--I need to remember this moment?

[00:23:55] Kim Pierce: Well, you know, to go outside of, outside of makeup, theater is one of the art firms that I hold the most dear. Obviously I was a theater major and there's something about going to a musical, and the singing and the choreography and the makeup, and the costumes and the hair, the wigs, everything that comes together that is just incredibly magical. And it just sends this buzz through my entire body. And I just don't think that there's anything more magical or more artistic, and compelling then to see all of these artistic visions come together to create this one amazing Broadway show. I'm a sucker for a show tune, I'll tell you that much. So anything that's "Hamilton" or "Wicked" or even some of the lesser known Broadway musicals, like "Bring It On" is one of my favorites that nobody really knows it was even a Broadway musical, but I just love all of those. And the art that comes together and the collaboration is just something that every time I am, I just sit there in awe like, "Wow, how did they even do that? How did that many people come together to, with so many different ideas and opinions and create such a magical, perfect event. I just can't handle it."

[00:25:12]Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. I think, I mean, I am also a sucker for a good musical. I mean, they have such power to give you this experience is so immersive and, and, magical. So yeah, no, I relate to that. And then do you have moments where you were, so for instance, like a show, like "Wicked," do you have moments where you're like, "Oh, I could do that makeup?"

[00:25:38]Kim Pierce: Yeah, for sure. The makeup that Elphaba wears that-- well, I'll use the first Elphaba, Idina Menzel, when that happened and I started to learn. What happened backstage at musicals, I researched that makeup and was like, "Okay, what products were used? Where did they shadow? I need to know what happened here." I need to know if they use prosthetics, how did they get that green makeup? Not to come off on her clothing and everything. And I just started going into that situation, just like, I need to know it all. And so maybe, yeah, I could do that, but like, I want to know how to do that. Like I need to understand this process.

[00:26:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.  Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing, Kim, so much. It's really fun to hear you talk specifically about, you know, the moments that stood out to you when you get this opportunity to see a woman look at herself and go, "Oh, okay. This is good." You know, I love that. So, well, I have a few questions that I always like to ask my guests, if you're okay with that.

[00:26:43] Kim Pierce: Sure.

[00:26:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:26:51] Kim Pierce: Well, to me, art is, it's really any creation or expression that provokes thought or a reaction. Every interaction that you have with art is an opportunity to have a silent conversation between you and the artist. The person experiencing it has a dialogue going in their head and the artist has already put something out into the world to discuss back and forth. I want to be a part of that conversation regardless of the role I'm in, whether I'm the person experiencing the art or I'm the artist. And to me, that's art. Art is just something that makes you think, something that makes you have a reaction.

[00:27:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Beautiful. I love that--silent conversation. That's great. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:27:41] Kim Pierce: Ah, well, from the perspective of a makeup artist, it can be a little different from any other medium because makeup artistry quite often is to serve a client's needs. And once you're not necessarily putting out your own artistic vision, so for headshots or weddings, or even if you're doing like a commercial photo shoot where you have a director and they're telling you what they need or want, you're fulfilling someone else's vision. So, in these instances, my role is to execute that dream, that picture from someone else's head that I've never seen, and adapt that to the client or the model's facial structure and their skin tone and make whatever vision they have come true for that. And so that role is important to my livelihood and it also brings joy. It brings fulfillment when the client is satisfied, but that doesn't always fulfill what I need creative creatively, if that makes sense. I feel like I'm always grappling for an opportunity to serve up my own idea of beauty and my own artistic sense. But I think that part of your job as a makeup artist is to achieve both, you've got to satisfy the paying client every time obviously. And you also have to make sure you're taking time and any opportunity to nurture your own creativity, because I mean, otherwise you're going to burn out if you're just doing the same thing over and over, and you're never stretching yourself, eventually you're going to be over it. So only until you can manage both roles as a makeup artist where you're fulfilling the client's needs, but you're also edifying your creative spirit, I guess just like cultivating that within yourself. We can't really move to the next level of artistry until we've met both of those needs.

[00:29:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That makes complete sense. And I love your perspective because it is a little different than some other artists I'm sure are kind of in the same boat, but that's a pretty unique thing, that you bring and yeah, I love that answer because you're right. You, you definitely need both.  I think for your particular form of art, it's a very immediate feedback kind of situation. But even for those of us who don't necessarily have an immediate reaction on some level, we still--obviously, we need to make money through this. So we need people to be liking what we're doing. Yeah.

[00:30:12] Kim Pierce: So, I mean, it's like getting a commission from someone. They tell you what they want and you paint a picture of what they're looking for and you just don't really get that artistic input. You're doing what they wanted and you're trying to get it out the way they want it, if that makes sense. So yeah, it's kinda unique.

[00:30:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And, okay. And then my final question is, and I'll explain my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And inclusive referring to someone who puts the art out into the world and provides a little bit of context behind that, whether that's a title or a description or program notes or something, versus exclusive referring to an artist who puts their art out into the world, but doesn't necessarily provide much context or any context behind it. So it's basically up to the viewer to interpret.

[00:31:06] Kim Pierce: Okay, well, as a makeup artist, again, I think most of my art would be considered exclusive. No one's telling their friends what emotion their makeup is supposed to evoke within them, you know, unless they're an influencer or on YouTube or something. And they're like, "Well, this makeup is supposed to make you feel this way." Most of us are just doing our makeup and, you know, however people look at it as how they look at it. That's not, you know, it's not the same thing, it's left to stand on its own. But I do love to see editorials, where like, in a magazine, artists are given a brief-- they have something that they have to accomplish, but they do it from their own perspective and it gives them that chance to be artistic and take their personal skills to fill a theme. But they have the creative license within that theme. And I think that's a really cool thing to look at because then when you're looking at it in the magazine, when it's published, they do put context with it and you can more readily understand what the artist was trying to convey.

[00:32:06] But for me, I like a little context personally. When I look at art, I kind of like to be met with some sort of context, some sort of clue as to what's going on within that art piece. Because I just feel like that conversation that's happening between you and the artist is a little bit more genuine because you have a hint of the true intent, I mean, because how many times have you looked at something and been like, "Oh, okay, this means this." And then you read the caption and you're like, "Oh, that was totally not what they intended me to see in this." And there is a place for that, you know, where you're, you are exploring something. And going outside of the artist intent and you feel whatever you truly feel with that. But I think part of just, you need to be able to see what that artist is trying to convey truly. And if there is some sort of context, you're able to get there a little easier, and hopefully not compromising what you as the viewer bring to that exchange. So I like a little context. I like being helped to those conclusions a little bit.

[00:33:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, perfect. I appreciate your perspective on all of that. And, I just want to say, you know, thank you so much for not only being here today, but sharing your experiences and what lights you up about your art, and thank you for creating and putting beauty out into the world, because I think that's really important and I love that you do that. So, thanks for being here.

[00:33:37] Kim Pierce: Well, thank you, Lindsey, for having me. I mean, I was seriously so excited and I, well, I told my son, he's 10 and I was like, "You know what? Mommy's going to be on a podcast. I'm going to be talking about my art." And he goes, "Oh Mom, are you sure? They meant to contact you?" "Yeah!" I was like, "Well, you little stinker. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think, yeah, they'd meant to contact me, but thank you for that vote of confidence there, son." But you know, this is the same child that gave me a note like last week, that was like, "I love you, even though you're not famous."

[00:34:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh! Well, that's so sweet.

[00:34:16] Kim Pierce: So let me tell you that I think now that he knows this is real, my credit went a little bit up in this house, so I appreciate that.

[00:34:24] Lindsey Dinneen: No problem!

[00:34:26] Kim Pierce: That was invaluable.

[00:34:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Definitely. I love it. Oh my gosh. I love it so much. Well, if, if any of our listeners, especially around the Kansas City area are interested in getting in contact with you for maybe, an opportunity, is there a way for us to follow you or any of that too?

[00:34:49] Kim Pierce: Yeah. Yeah. I've got an Instagram. That is The Piercing Beauty. And I have my email as [email protected]. I have a website, thepiercingbeauty.com. And then, yeah, so pretty much any way you want to connect with me, I'm out there. I'm on Facebook, with a business page and all of that. And, I mean, even if you're not in the KC Metro, I'm willing to travel. If you wanna make me go somewhere ,destination wedding, whenever this COVID stuff breaks down, I'm all for it.

[00:35:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. I actually think Helen, if I remember correctly, Helen was like, "I can do destination photo shoots. That'd be fine."

[00:35:26] Kim Pierce: That sounds just like something she would say.

[00:35:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, perfect. So, so there we go. We'll just, we'll put that out there, and anyone anywhere, you have your gals for the perfect photo shoot and experience. There you go. All right, well, thank you again so much, Kim, and thank you so much to everyone who's listened to this episode. I really appreciate your support and your interest in art and in the artists that I get to talk to. And, if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love if you share this with a friend or two, and we will catch you next time.

[00:36:04] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:36:14]Hey, Artfully Told listeners, it's Lindsey here. I want to say, first of all, thank you so very much for your continued support of Artfully Told, for listening to the episodes, and for being a part of bringing art to the world. I really believe that what we're doing is important and matters, and I'm just excited to share art with you on a continual basis. I do want to reach out to you.  I do the whole podcasts myself, from the interviews themselves to the editing, to the transcribing, and then of course posting and all that good stuff. And I absolutely love what I do, but it is both time-consuming and expensive to run a podcast. I have to have the proper equipment. And then of course the proper editing software and hosting platform. And in order to continue to be able to do this on a sustainable basis for the future, I'm asking our listeners, if you guys would consider supporting the podcast, even a very small monthly donation, like $5 a month would really go a long way towards me being able to continue to do this in the future. And so I have set up a PayPal account that you can access through the artfully told website, which is www.artfullytold.podbean.com. And I would love if you would consider just making a monthly reoccurring donation to support the podcast. We don't have corporate sponsors. So everything that you hear is me doing this from a labor of love. And I love it, but I would ask if you would perhaps consider supporting it too. Thank you so much. Have an amazing day and I'll catch you next time.

In this episode, I welcome Emerson Mertens! She is a professional dancer, teacher, and choreographer, as well as graphic artist. She shares her powerful story about her own journey discovering health issues that had impacted her for years, and how that has transformed the way she views art, and now how she teaches and inspires her own students. (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is a photo of Emerson dancing that she post-processed with her graphic design skills!)

Get in touch with Emerson Mertens: https://emersonmertens.wordpress.com/

Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart

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Episode 27 - Emerson Mertens

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:14] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.

[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.

[00:00:32]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am really excited to have today as my guest, the lovely Emerson Mertens, and she is a professional dancer, choreographer and teacher, as well as a graphic designer. And she is multitalented in many different aspects of art and life. And I am so excited to have her as my guest today and just learn a little bit more about her journey and all those good things. So thank you so much for being here.

[00:01:10] Emerson Mertens: Hi Lindsey. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.

[00:01:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you don't mind, I would love if you would share with everyone just a little bit about who you are and maybe your background and what you're up to.

[00:01:24] Emerson Mertens: Absolutely. Yeah, so I, I've been a dancer and an instructor and a choreographer for about 20 years now. And I focused a lot of my training on classical ballet, but I've also trained in several other styles. I've danced with several companies and organizations over the years, including the lovely VidaDance. So, you're a wonderful company. I had such a wonderful time doing that. And, now I mostly do freelance work, so I teach classes and workshops and I choreograph for different productions and, stage musicals. So I do a lot of that. And, I actually have a new project that I'm planning on launching really soon, which I'm really excited about. It's going to bring dance, training, and classes to people of all different ages and skill levels in a really whole new way that I've never done before. And it's going to be something that everybody can do at home. So I'm very looking forward to that. Very excited.

[00:02:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh, how exciting, what a nice little sneak preview. I can't wait to find out more. Awesome. So are you planning to, and you don't have to go into too much detail if you don't want, but are you planning to do recordings kind of yourself? Like in your own home as well?

[00:02:45] Emerson Mertens: I am. Yes, I'm going to be doing some video classes and like breaking down technique and just all the things I've learned over the years, some different tips and, and just sort of everything that I've learned over all this time.

[00:03:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. And so how did you first start getting involved in, in dance?

[00:03:08] Emerson Mertens: Oh, that's a great question. I actually started when I was very young, I was about four years old and I started in ballet classes because I actually, one of my feet and legs was turned in more when I was born. So it was a way of sort of helping to train my muscles to work correctly. So, that's actually why I started dance, and then I just fell in love with it from there and turned it into my career.

[00:03:39]Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah, that makes complete sense. I think you're not an isolated case. Different dancers obviously start for different reasons, but I, I know that it could be so helpful for things like that. So. That's so cool. Thanks for sharing that. And then what kept you going? I mean, what made you sort of fall in love with it and then decide you wanted this to be a part of your life?

[00:04:05]Emerson Mertens: I really just fell in love with the art of it. I've always been artistic. I love drawing. And now I do the graphic design, so I've always just loved art and what it, how it connects people and it's really such a way to express oneself and really see, there's so much like beauty and just a wonderful way of communicating with the world through art. And so that's always been a huge draw for me in dance and performing, and really every, every form of art that I've been involved with over the years.

[00:04:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And so when you sort of started transitioning to professional dancing and teaching and choreographing, was there anything in particular, like any moments in particular that surprised you or you thought, "Oh, I not realized it was going to be like this!" Or, or anything like that.

[00:05:09] Emerson Mertens: Yeah. Actually, I'd say that was a lot with choreography. Like I always enjoyed doing it, but I never, I never knew that that would be, that's really the part of dance that I really enjoy the most overall. Like, I love dancing. I love performing. I love teaching, but choreography was, sort of a very pleasant surprise to me as part of what I really wanted to focus on. And I just loved bringing it all together and then being able to teach that to other people and have their unique artistic expression come into my choreography and make it something unique that I didn't even see ahead of time, you know? So I had like my style and what I saw in the choreography, but then getting to see the people I work with bring their own special, unique, artistic expression to, it was just really awesome. I love that.

[00:06:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. It is really special to see. To see somebody's basically soul come forth and to see how they can inspire other people through their art and their movement too. So that's cool. Excellent. And so I know you have a few stories in mind in particular that you were kind of thinking about sharing. So I would love to hear your stories.

[00:06:32] Emerson Mertens: Okay. Yeah. Great.  I would love to talk about specifically how I have a couple of different health conditions that I have discovered over the years and how that really has expanded my definition and how I see an artist. So to give a little backstory and context, so hopefully it makes sense overall, I'll give a little, a little behind-the-scenes on some of this. So I think there, there are obviously a lot of different kinds of art and different ways of expressing art. But a lot of times within those art forms, especially in classical ballet and the dance world in general, there's these certain boxes and molds that an artist is sort of expected to fit into. And I think, especially with ballet training, there are very specific ideals that are sort of presented as being the ultimate, like what we are supposed to be. So there can be a lot of, if you want to be a professional dancer, then you have to fit this certain criteria.

[00:07:49] And I think that sometimes that can be detrimental to the artist in a lot of ways. And that's not to say that there isn't a place for certain, reasonable standards or a level of discipline, things like achieving correct technique for your own health and physical safety is very, very important. So I do see how that is essential to the art form and the training. But on the other hand, I think there also exists a lot of expectations and sort of these underlying beliefs that I believe can be quite limiting and damaging to an artist, not only in their own expression, but also on a personal level.

[00:08:32] And I, I've experienced that myself and I have talked to a lot of people over the years that have very similar experience. So I think there's a lot of, unfortunately a sort of unhealthy strive toward perfection in a lot of ballet in particular, but also just in dance in general. And I think it really haunts a lot of artists. And even if it isn't quite that extreme for them, there's still this idea that's perpetuated in the world of, well, this is what an artist should be, or this is what a dancer ultimately should look like. So over the years, I started to realize that this underlying narrative exists in a lot of the areas of training and performing and even in, in teaching as well. And it became even more evident to me as I began to have more health problems and physical issues in myself. So I started to realize that the more challenges I began to have physically, the less I essentially fit in. I didn't really fit the mold that the dancer was supposed to fit into. So I had a lot of teachers throughout the years that, some were really amazing, wonderful teachers, and some were not so great if I'm being honest. And sometimes, some of the not-so-great ones were intentionally, pretty emotionally and mentally abusive to their students. So that was very painful to me personally. And I knew that that isn't how it should be done. That's not how we should treat people.

[00:10:17] And thankfully not all teachers are like that. But what I started to realize was that even with a lot of really good-hearted, great teachers, there's still sort of this underlying thought, that's a part of the whole system really, that a dancer has to look like this. There was a lot of that in classes and auditions. It was just sort of this, this overarching idea that the artist had to be this way. So I even remember a time when a really wonderful instructor that I worked with who was highly trained at a world-renowned school. She told me that she didn't know how to break it to her own daughter that she would never be a dancer because she didn't have the right body type. And so that was just really sad to me because it seems sad to her too, because it was like this unavoidable reality that could never be changed, even for her own daughter. And I see this a lot in dance and I've just seen so many people give up on their dreams because they didn't look the part or fit the mold.

[00:11:32] And if I had listened to some of the comments from my own instructors throughout the years, I really don't think I would have ever become a dancer or a choreographer or even a teacher myself. So kind of bringing it full circle here. When it comes to my own health journey, I always knew something was just a bit off. Like it just didn't add up always. I couldn't always do what everyone else could do. And I struggled greatly with what I thought at the time was a pretty severe lack of stamina. So, no matter how hard I pushed, I could never really get past the fact that I felt physically very tired and I had a significant amount of pain, especially in my joints, and muscles too. But mostly in my joints, I knew I had scoliosis because I had been diagnosed when I was very, very young, like in my teens, with scoliosis, which is actually somewhat common. A lot of dancers deal with that, but I knew that my daily pain issues went beyond just that, what comes with that, usually the really sore back and those sorts of issues.

[00:12:49] Things were going wrong really all over my body. And no one, not even my doctors, were able to figure out what was going wrong at the time. So it wasn't until I was diagnosed in 2014 with joint hypermobility syndrome, that's when I finally started to understand what the underlying problems were, which essentially it means that my body does not produce enough collagen. So my tendons and joints and muscles, really everything, are effected by that. So, that was something that I was dealing with all these years in training that I never really understood why I couldn't do what everybody else could do, at least not to the same extent that they could do it. I remember having teachers back then who were trying to work with me, and really great, awesome teachers, they were trying to work with me and help me figure out why I couldn't do everything the sort of normal way as far as training goes and technique.

[00:14:03] And I remember one of them telling me who was trained in Pilates and gyrotonics, he told me, he said, "It's, it's so interesting because you figured out a way without even realizing it, how to sort of mimic technical positions without..." I was able to mimic them in a way that fit my body type and how it worked. So they looked, it looked technically correct, but I was actually doing it different than everyone else. So that was really interesting to me because I didn't know why that was. I didn't realize I was doing it differently. So it, it turns out this was part of the reason because this condition affects the way I move and how it feels.

[00:14:49] So fast forward to this year and I actually have been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. So now I have these two diagnoses, three, actually, if you count the scoliosis diagnosis from many, many, many years ago, and now looking back on my years of training, I, I do finally see why those challenges were so different for me than most of my fellow students. And the thing with both a joint hypermobility syndrome and fibromyalgia is that you can have good days and bad days. So some days I feel like I can run a mile, and then other days I literally feel like I can't get out of bed. So it turned out it wasn't just a lack of stamina like I thought it might be, because stamina can really be built up over time and most people can, can get past that. So what it really was was fatigue. So it was sort of this constant, heavy, tired feeling that comes with those physical conditions. So essentially it felt like I was trying to drag myself through mud. And now I look back and I think I really do wish I knew then what I know now. Like I know a lot of people say that that's something we all kind of say, as we get older, you know, there are a lot of things that we think, "Oh, if only I knew that then," and this is one of those for me, because I was just so extremely hard on myself.

[00:16:20] Like I did not think very highly of myself in even a good way. You know, as a dancer or as an athlete in any way, I just thought I wasn't good enough and I never would be. And I had, I had a lot of instructors who were exceptionally hard on me, and I just don't think it was in a way that I don't think is good for any student to really experience. I was a lot of times treated like I was dumb or lazy because I couldn't do what other people could do. And I knew that couldn't be the case because I was literally training and rehearsing 20 to 30 hours a week and understudying every part I could and really working overtime at home. So it just didn't add up to me that that would be the reason, even though I couldn't figure out what the reason was.

[00:17:16]And I think sometimes instructors can forget that there can be many reasons that a student isn't meeting their expectations. And sometimes we have to ask ourselves as instructors, if our expectations are, are really reasonable, because it's very important to teach discipline and expect our students to give that 100% effort. But at the same time, we need to be careful that we don't always place this impossible standard of perfection on our students, that's ultimately impossible to obtain, which is a lot of what I've experienced and from what I've heard from other people, it's a lot of what other people have experienced as well. So throughout my years of teaching, I found that it's actually pretty rare to come across a student who just truly does not want to try because they don't want to work hard. There's almost always some other reason that isn't adding up. And for me, that was my physical conditions that no one knew anything about at the time. I didn't, my doctors didn't.

[00:18:32] So I didn't really fit the mold as a dancer in one way or another. And so I that's when I really, really started to believe that I just wasn't good enough and I never would be. And that ultimately stole my love of dance and took my personal artistry away in a sense for a very long time. I had a very back and forth sort of relationship with dance and that there were times where I just, I didn't want to do it anymore because I just felt like it wasn't for me, it wasn't worth it. It wasn't, I could never be what I wanted to be or what I was supposed to be. So it just didn't work for me in that way. But now that I know all of this, I'm really, I'm really grateful and thankful to have these answers now and to know this, and it's really changed my perspective now as an artist and also as a teacher. As I'm teaching other people how to grow into their own artistry, it's really broadened my definition of what the artist should be, because it may be true that we can't all do the same things and fit into every specific box. But I think that's, that's okay. You know, overall everyone has their own individual challenges and unique strengths, and artistry really should be individual and unique.

[00:20:05] But I think a lot of people have kind of forgotten that over time. So now as an instructor and a choreographer myself, I really make it a priority to encourage my students to become their own unique artists and not just drive for this sort of elusive technically perfect dancer ideal look. So that's something that now I have my personal experience that is changing the way I see the entire world of dance. And I'm really grateful for that. And it's helping me too be more observant and have more compassion towards everyone I work with because I've had many students who, like me, didn't really fit the mold and it might be because they had physical challenges or maybe even just a learning difference.

[00:21:04] And that unfortunately caused a lot of people to just sort of set them aside. But I don't believe we should be doing that. Even if there's something that may keep them from becoming a principal dancer with the New York City Ballet or win trophies in a competition or those things that we all kind of strive for in the dance world, it doesn't mean that they still can't be amazing artists in other ways or other avenues. So, since there are so many different ways to define an artist, my own health journey has really helped me to expand that definition way beyond what I was often taught or shown throughout my years of training.

[00:21:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's amazing. That is such a powerful story. And first of all, thank you for sharing that because I know that, you know, parts of that story are probably difficult to reminisce over and all of that. So, so first of all, thank you so much for just being real with us, because that's a, that's a big deal. I really appreciate that.

[00:22:13] Emerson Mertens: Well, thank you. That, that means a lot.

[00:22:16]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah. And it's so interesting. I mean, I was completely captivated by your story and I think, I personally obviously have also-- for those who know this about me--have been in the dance world for my entire life too. And I can completely resonate with a lot of what Emerson has talked about in the way that, especially a more, I would say, old-school way of training sort of indicated that everyone should sort of fit this one, particular look, this one particular style, et cetera. And, I'm thankful for, for teachers and choreographers like Emerson who are stepping out to say, "You know, there are other ways," like you said, "There are other avenues and we should celebrate the uniqueness instead of squelching it." And, I'm so sorry that you've had those health issues, but I have to say, I think that perspective that you now bring to your students and to those that you work with, your colleagues, that's amazing. I mean, that's what the dance world needs. That's what the world needs is more empathy and compassion and striving to understand and not just criticize.

[00:23:34] Emerson Mertens: Absolutely. I do, I see it as sort of that, that silver lining in my experiences. Yes. It's, it's hard when we all go through these things and they're things we wish we didn't have to go through, but it can-- our experience, if we feel comfortable and are able to share it with others, then it can help someone else going through that as well, and be sort of that way we reach out and, and change things for the better and encourage other people to really be themselves and get through these hard times.

[00:24:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm curious, do you have any particular advice for someone, whether they're a dancer or any kind of aspiring artist, what would you tell someone who was kind of feeling maybe a little isolated or not part of the mold? Or what would you tell them to, to encourage them to still try?

[00:24:40] Emerson Mertens: Yeah, I, I would say, and this is what I tell my students all of the time, in, in my classes that I teach is, always, always try your best. And that's really, you can be proud of that. You can know that you gave it your full effort, and if it isn't exactly like someone else's, if the outcome isn't exactly like what you see in someone else, that's okay. And you don't have to be, you don't have to look or perform, or whatever it may be, exactly like someone else, because essentially that's what art is. It's very personal and it's very individual and unique and you can bring something to whatever it is you love in a way that no one else can. And so you should always just give everything. You've got to do that. And that will be, that will be enough. You don't have to be enough for anyone in this sort of, this look of perfection or ideal of the ultimate or whatever. Like I said, there are standards that we should--good standards that we should always try to strive for. A lot of it's for physical health and like dance, or, you know, a level of discipline, things like that. But, as long as you're doing those things, it's okay if, if yours looks different than someone else's. That's actually what's good about art, is it can be your expression.

[00:26:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I personally have had the privilege of watching you dance and dancing alongside you. And I have to caveat to anyone listening to this--Emerson is a gorgeous dancer and seriously through whatever differences or even if you would consider them, you know, limitations or whatever you would consider them-- you have always shown a level of artistry and care with your technique and your expression that I think is really special. And so, yeah, to anyone listening, I just want to make sure they understand that Emerson is a fantastic, fantastic performer. And I didn't know about a lot of the health issues that you had to deal with, but I wouldn't have known from your technique either.

[00:27:12]Emerson Mertens: Well, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I, I did, I tried really hard, so I appreciate that. And I, I have to say also that's one thing I've just always admired about you and I just love about you as a person, is every time we worked together, we worked together in three different companies and in different ways. So we've worked together quite a bit. I always loved how that the people are what's important to you, and that makes such a difference. You see everybody's individual, their heart and their passion and their love for what they do. And you, you encourage that. And that I've just always loved that. Especially as you've been a director of VidaDance, your own company, and a teacher, that's just something I really admire. So thank you for doing that.

[00:28:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. And I know we we're on such the same page and we resonate so much, but yeah, you're absolutely right. It's about the people and the people have to come first. It's--you're taking care, especially when you're leading in any capacity, whether that's as a teacher or a choreographer, or really, even as a fellow dancer, you're taking care of somebody else's soul and heart, and that's a huge responsibility.

[00:28:28] Emerson Mertens: Yes.

[00:28:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, yeah. Wonderful. So I'm curious-- you've kind of, I had mentioned at the beginning, and you sort of touched on it too, that you started dabbling a little bit in other, well, not just dabble, you do this professionally as well-- you started by, I guess, maybe dabbling in drawing and graphic design. And so how has that been a different expression for you?

[00:28:52] Emerson Mertens: Oh, yeah, that's a great question. I, wow, where do I start? It's, it has been different than the performing arts. Obviously it is a different, type of art, but I see so many, so many similarities and a lot of-- I often, I see that my expression in graphic design and, and drawing. I have that same kind of joy that I do when I'm on stage and performing and everything. So it's, it's another wonderful way of expressing feelings and ideas and, and just the beauty of the world and everything. It, it does sort of translate in the same sort of way as the performing arts does, it's just a different avenue and I have loved how I've seen more graphic art and, and videography, and everything's sort of come together with the performing arts world, especially over the last year. There's been a lot of that because we've been home and we've been seeing more on the internet and everything. And I think it's really cool to see the two worlds kind of collide and combine in that way, in ways that I haven't really seen as much before. So I love being kind of in both worlds there. And then also seeing them come together.

[00:30:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for all of your insights and your heart for the arts and for the world. I think that's really incredible. I was wondering if it's okay to ask you my three questions that I like to ask my guests?

[00:30:37] Emerson Mertens: Absolutely.

[00:30:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:30:47] Emerson Mertens: Okay.  You have such great questions. I love these questions. Art, I think, it's so many things. It's, it's kind of hard to pinpoint an exact definition, but I think what stands out to me the most is that art is really a form of communication. So it has that ability kind of, like I said earlier, to connect people. And it has a way of touching people that I think a lot of the normal ways of communication can't always do. So it's a form of communication with others. And I think it's also a form of self-expression, which is, in a way, essentially sort of another form of communication because we're communicating what we think or feel ourselves to others. So I think that's really true of any kind of art, whether it's dance or music or painting or, or graphic arts--it's essentially communicating some idea or feeling, or even maybe an entire story. Like in the case of dance, a lot of times it's an entire story. It's communicating that to the viewer or listener in, in that artist's own unique way. And that can be a really powerful thing.

[00:32:03]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yes, absolutely. Perfect. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?  

[00:32:10] Emerson Mertens: I am a Christian, so I believe that God has gifted us all with unique talents and things that we are especially passionate about to really share with the world. So I think for me, the most important role of an artist is really to share truth, hope, and beauty through my art. And that may look different depending on the type of art or the topic. It might not always be obvious on the surface, but I think that at least one of those things usually lies at the heart of nearly everything we share as artists. So to give an example of what I mean, an artist may create a piece that reflects a very difficult subject. So it might not really be positive or, or joyful in the presentation because of what that subject is, but there might, there may still be that truth that can be learned from that or a spark of hope that's conveyed to the audience. So no matter if we're painting a picture of colorful, pretty butterflies in a field, or I'm choreographing a dance about a really hard struggle like anxiety or loss. I believe that as artists, we should always try to look for those opportunities to bring that truth, hope, or beauty into our art in, in a way that really highlights the meaning and the purpose behind it.

[00:33:48]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. And amen to that.  I love that. Okay. And then my final question, and I'll explain my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And inclusive simply refers to an artist who puts something out into the world and includes some context behind it, whether that's, it could be as simple as a title, it could be program notes, it could be a description. It's just some context, versus exclusive being when the artist puts something out there and doesn't provide context. And then basically then at that point, it's up to the  audience or the viewer to come up with their own thoughts.

[00:34:37] Emerson Mertens: Sure. Yeah. That's, that's really important I think to, to think about as an artist and speaking from my own personal experience, I'm, I'm one of those people that, when I hear a song on the radio, I like immediately go to the internet and try to figure out like what the artist was thinking behind it, like their, their idea behind why they wrote the lyrics that way to everything. So I really like knowing the meaning behind things. And I think it's important sometimes to know that intent behind the art, because if something's just completely abstract to us, then we might have difficulty connecting with that art. And it might not have that same personal impact on us as if we did know more about it.

[00:35:22] But then at the same time, I also believe that there's a place for subtlety and art. So those little details that maybe aren't fully explained, but they still have meaning behind them because if everything's explained upfront, then we might lose some of that personal connection to the art because we can't connect personally, maybe with that, with exactly with what the artist is thinking. So, sometimes the subtlety, those little subtle elements can be poetic and profound to us as the viewer or listener. And that really speaks to our own individual experiences. So I guess I sort of land somewhere in the middle of exclusive and inclusive in art. I think it really depends on the type of art and the story that an artist is hoping to portray that should really lead them more one way towards exclusivity or the other way towards inclusivity and how they choose to share it. But overall, I generally think it should be a little bit of both in most cases.

[00:36:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That makes complete sense to me. Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you again so much for just being my guest today. I really appreciated your insights and your honesty, and sharing just what helped you basically become who you are and the way that you approach your art. And so I just want to say thank you so much for continuing to create and finding creative ways to dance and to teach. And, and again, maybe it doesn't look quite the same, but I think that that's something to be celebrated. So thank you for continuing to share art with the world. I think that what you do really matters and it really makes a difference.

[00:37:15] Emerson Mertens: Thank you so much. And thank you for having me. I was so glad to be on. I love what you're doing with this podcast. I, I love learning more about all kinds of different artists, and I just think everybody's experience really can, can help us see all kinds of different things that we may have never noticed before. And I just, I love that. So thank you so much for having me on and having me share my experience.

[00:37:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. I completely agree with you and thank you so much to everyone who has listened to this episode. I really appreciate your support. And I hope if you're feeling as inspired as I am, if you wouldn't mind just sharing this episode with a friend or two, and we will catch you next time.

[00:38:02] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:38:12]Hey, Artfully Told listeners, it's Lindsey here. I want to say, first of all, thank you so very much for your continued support of Artfully Told, for listening to the episodes, and for being a part of bringing art to the world. I really believe that what we're doing is important and matters, and I'm just excited to share art with you on a continual basis. I do want to reach out to you.  I do the whole podcasts myself, from the interviews themselves, to the editing, to the transcribing, and then of course posting and all that good stuff. And I absolutely love what I do, but it is both time-consuming and expensive to run a podcast. I have to have the proper equipment, and then of course the proper editing software and hosting platform. And in order to continue to be able to do this on a sustainable basis for the future, I'm asking our listeners, if you guys would consider supporting the podcast. Even a very small monthly donation, like $5 a month, would really go a long way towards me being able to continue to do this in the future. And so I have set up a PayPal account that you can access through the Artfully Told website, which is www.artfullytold.podbean.com. And I would love if you would consider just making a monthly reoccurring donation to support the podcast. We don't have corporate sponsors. So everything that you hear is me doing this from a labor of love. And I love it, but I would ask if you would perhaps consider supporting it too. Thank you so much. Have an amazing day and I'll catch you next time.

In this episode, I welcome Alden Miller! Alden is a filmmaker and the founder and owner of Alchemy Film Company. He talks about his inspiration to go from sharing fiction to non-fiction stories, and about his passion for encouraging the next generation of filmmakers and artists. 

Get in touch with Alden Miller: https://alchemyfilmco.com/ | www.instagram.com/kcfilmmaker | www.instagram.com/alchemyfilmco | https://www.facebook.com/alchemyfilmco 

Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart

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Episode 26 - Alden Miller

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.

[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.

[00:00:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. My name is Lindsey, and I am so excited to have as my guest today, Alden Miller. He is the founder, owner, and filmmaker extraordinare behind Alchemy Film Company. And thank you, Alden, so much for being here today.

[00:00:53] Alden Miller: Thanks for having me.

[00:00:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Well, I would love to hear a little bit more about you, sort of how you got started and maybe just tell us a little bit about yourself, if you don't mind.

[00:01:05] Alden Miller: Sure. So Alden in a nutshell. I live here in Kansas City now, but I spent most of my time, I lived in Wisconsin and that's where I grew up. I went to school for film, and eventually after that, I had some internships in LA. So I did that for about a year or so. Life brought me back to the Midwest. And so I came back here, ended up getting a job for PBS. And, yeah, I was there for about 10 years and I said, "See you guys. I can do this on my own." And I left them to go do my own documentary type work.

[00:01:39] Lindsey Dinneen: That's very cool. And so what made you start to get interested in filmmaking in the first place? What prompted that?

[00:01:48] Alden Miller: So, well, definitely, well kind of, you know, I'm aging myself with this story, but so I went to the theater when I was senior, senior in high school. I think I ended up going to see a movie in the theater, ended up seeing it like seven times in the theater, which wasn't that common to do--maybe it's, I don't know if it's still common to do it all, but-- and I'm seeing it a bunch of times just because it kind of blew my mind of what, how it was presented. And so, I mean, the movie was "Pulp Fiction." And so, as a teenage boy, of course, you know, I love the guns and the violence and all that stuff, but the non-linear storytelling was the thing that kind of blew my mind. and so then I was like, "Oh my God, like, you can do that?" And so I really liked that, you know, in the future, I find out that he stole that from Japanese storytelling and they did it all the time. But, that was very cool. And so that did that. I kind of switched gears completely because I was a complete science nerd, and I just decided to do that. I was still going to school kind of doing the science-y thing, but halfway through freshman year of college, I just said, "Yep. You know what? I'm just going to go do movie stuff."

[00:02:56]Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. So some of these internships that you had in LA, were they for more of feature-film type movies, or were they--how, how did you switch to documentary making from, you know, your initial interest?

[00:03:14] Alden Miller: Yeah. So when I started film school, I, you know, I went in like every other person that goes into film school, 'cause I'm going to be the next Spielberg, right? So that's what everyone else wants to do. Or maybe, you know, who's that guy-- the guy who did the Batman movies, maybe Chris Nolan is the, is the popular guy. But, so I went in to do that kind of thing, was still kind of into the feature and the narrative type storytelling. And when I left, when I ended up coming back to PBS or fast forward to PBS, documentaries were more on my radar, obviously, because they do a lot of documentary work. And so I was learning like the ins and outs of it. Still doing short films of like,  a narrative scripted nature. And then when I kind of went out on my own, I was meeting people that were doing amazing things, and stories that needed to be told that no one knew about. And, you know, it was kinda funny that these people are out doing things, and their stories were much better than the stories that I was making up, or my friends were making up, that we were telling. And so I'm like, these stories need to be told. The world doesn't need another zombie movie. You know, they should learn about this guy that was finding water in Africa with the use of an iPad that had no wifi. That's pretty amazing. Those kinds of stories kind of stuck with me, and I felt that was a little more valuable with my time.

[00:04:39] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. And so your work with PBS sounded like it kind of helped launch your own company eventually, or, you know, a little bit was the inspiration or led into it. But when you stepped out on your own, what was that like? I mean, that's a, that's a huge step forward.

[00:05:01] Alden Miller: Yeah, it was. Well, the funny thing is, is that I just had a kid and I was like, "Hey, we have new baby. Well, you know what I should do, I should probably quit my job and start a new thing." To do something silly like that. But when I did it, I was kind of, you know, doing it, I was planning things out. 'Cause I, since I've moved to Kansas City, I was been there for, you know, eight, 10 years or so. You know, I've, I found my own networks of my own connections and stuff like that. I had three different kind of production houses or whatever kinda just told me like, "Hey, you know, if you, if ever need more freelance work or whatever, like I got your back, like I will send you work." And I know I have to take that with a grain of salt, but I had three or four different companies telling me that I'm like, "You know what, now's the time. Like if one isn't doing it, like then maybe the others will do it."  I will have work for me. That first year when I went on my own, no one ever called me. That was a good time. Yeah. So, I just leave it kind of like a little bit of a, a word of warning, but not to scare people away from doing what they want to do.

[00:06:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, it's yes, stepping out on your own, especially if you feel like there's a lot of support upfront, sometimes doesn't pan out quite in the way that you think that it will. So, but, but then you meet other people and you have other clients that become attracted to you and all that. So it works out. Yeah. But yeah. So now, okay, so you've had your own company for now how many years?

[00:06:33] Alden Miller: She's over five. Okay. All right. So just say how old my daughter is. So there you go.

[00:06:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Easy to remember. Okay, so seven years. So when did you start feeling like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah. I can definitely do this." I mean, obviously you can do the work. I don't mean it like that, but being out on your own and developing your company in addition to doing your work, which is a whole other thing.

[00:07:00] Alden Miller: Yeah. I think in year 10, I'm going to be coming into my own there.

[00:07:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Fair enough.

[00:07:05] Alden Miller: I mean, a couple of years, like every, I mean, every year it gets bigger and better. So first year and the first year was like, wasn't even like an official year. Like I went on my own, like in May or June. And I kind of considered up to December that first year. So like the first year was, pretty much sucked. The second year was, got a little bit better and just, you know, step-by-step just getting better, making less mistakes is really the key. Because I made pretty much every mistake you could as a small business and, yeah. Yeah. It's much more about the business than it is about the art when you're doing these kind of things. And that's what they never tell you.

[00:07:41] Lindsey Dinneen: That is so true. That is so true. Yes, indeed. So, but back to your art, what are some of the moments that really stand out to you, or stories that you've been able to tell that really stand out to you as like, "Wow, I'm so glad I got to be a part of that."

[00:08:01] Alden Miller: You know, it's tough because I don't-- nothing jumps ahead of me like this, this particular story here. You know, when I worked with PBS, I guess one of the climax of the PBS was, we did a story on World War II veterans in Missouri. So we went and interviewed all the living World War II vets that lived in Missouri and told their stories. So it could have been a Marine that was, stormed Ujima. It could have been a Rosie Riveter. It could have been, you know, someone in the Navy, you know, and just kind of put all those stories together and made one documentary. So that was very cool. And that probably was one of those things that really cemented or got my eyes on documentary work. Just seeing those stories and kind of put that on the radar. As far as my own, own things, like nothing specifically jumps out. I just really like telling the next story. You know, one of the things--like I am a filmmaker, but really I'm a storyteller. Film is just the avenue that I choose to tell stories, because it's the best way to, in my mind, the best way to get the story told. But I mean, if all cameras broke, like magically broke one day, I would be the first to run around with some crayons and start drawing things. I really don't care what medium it is, but you know, story or video is just what is obviously out there. So that's what I'm using.

[00:09:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and so we've been using the term "documentary" a lot, but when you do your filmmaking, how long are these average films that you're doing? I mean, are you doing full length documentaries mostly or are they smaller kinds of works or both or?

[00:09:40]Alden Miller:  So what I'm doing, what I'm playing with a lot now is more series-based. So, running time-wise, it might be a hundred minutes or beyond, but it's in smaller chunks. So maybe like five minute episodes, or 15 or 20 minute episodes of something that, you know, is a 13 part series. And so you get to tell--like, it's almost like your own little TV series where you get to have the middle, the beginning, the middle, the end, which I find is really cool. I think the series and the shorter form is the way to go.

[00:10:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Very cool.

[00:10:15] Alden Miller: I mean, assuming that you want eyeballs on your stories, so, you know.

[00:10:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. And so now, who is your typical client? Is it a business? Is it an individual? Is it an artist? What do you normally see?

[00:10:30] Alden Miller: I'm attracted to kind of inspiring stories and stories that I feel are going to change the world, or need to be told. And a lot of those people tend to be startups, and/or nonprofits. And so those are a lot of my clients. I do have some other mainstream clients, you know, because, you know, you need to pay bills, but the ones I'm really, you know, get excited about are kind of the really, in my mind, the cool stories that I feel need to be told.

[00:11:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you talked about storytelling earlier and I absolutely agree. I think you have a very particular knack for that--but then it's great because you have all the skills needed to put that into a film--but back to the storytelling aspect, I heard you speak one time about the power for a business, the power in storytelling. Do you mind sharing a little bit more about that?

[00:11:29] Alden Miller: Sure. One thing. So one of the, what I was talking about then was, well, the importance of telling the, telling your story on your terms. You know, you're being the steward of your own storytelling instead of letting others talk about you, kind of like a word-of-mouth thing. Like people talk about word-of-mouth being very positive things. Especially in business, like, that's my marketing, my word-of-mouth. Like everyone's talking about me! But it, as long as they're talking about you the way that you want them to be talking about you, you basically have to tell people how to broadcast you out there. And so, you know, for example, like if, if there was a restaurant where, you know, you're telling--Person A is telling Person B like, "Hey, I went to this restaurant last night. It was awesome. It's crazy! Like, the servers, the cooks and stuff like that, they're all like ex-felons or ex-convicts like, they're just outa, they're just outa jail. And then like, you know, they serve your food, you give them their credit card and like run away and come back."

[00:12:22] Like, you know, I don't know if Person B is going to be very excited to go to that restaurant. They're like, " Who's my server?" Because they had that image in their head. Now, if you explain it in a different way and you kind of show what's going on, you tell their stories of like what was going on in their situations, of more of the story behind who these people are, and get their whys and things like that. It's, it becomes a very inspiring story and you learn about the purpose of the entire cafe and why it was there and stuff like that. And so that gets people excited. And then they'll probably end up checking that out as a restaurant, for example.

[00:12:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Absolutely. And it's, and then when you're controlling that narrative, you're able to talk about the redemptive qualities and share the purpose and the mission and why it's so important. So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That's really cool. Well, do you have any particular projects coming up that you're really excited about, and I'm sure you can't go super far into the nitty gritty details, but anything in particular, that's really exciting you these days?

[00:13:26] Alden Miller: Well, I'm wrapping up a big one, which I'm pretty excited about, and I'm also equally excited to be wrapping it up just 'cause I'm ready to go do something else. I'm kind of in my own little flux period myself. And so my own storytelling and branding and stuff like that is going to be changing a little bit. And so, you know, hopefully, hopefully that's, that's done. And it's a very exciting thing. Like just thinking about those kinds of things kind of excites me, because I'm kind of a nitpicker type thing. And so I'll just, you know, sit there and tweak things 'til the end of time, so that part of the business part, it's kind of exciting going on. The art stuff, as far as different projects, there's a couple of things on the horizon because of the day and age of where we are as a nation now, it's kind of transformed my business. And so just different ways to tell stories is kind of the, is the challenge and the excitement now.

[00:14:18]Lindsey Dinneen:  Absolutely. Yeah. It really, definitely having to adapt to the times, that's been a running theme amongst all the artists that I've been talking to lately for sure. Yeah. Well, so I'm curious, and I'm sure you've dealt with this before in the past, but you know, traditionally or historically, the Midwest hasn't exactly been known for a lot of filmmaking opportunities or at least not the place that you would venture to for it. So how, how has that changed over time and what do you see as being a good thing about being here versus say in LA?

[00:14:57] Alden Miller: So, yeah. So the thing about, the good thing about being here or being in the desert or being in the mountains in Montana or something like that, is that the stories that you live through day in and day out, that you feel are boring, are stories that LA can't tell. And so if you are an aspiring filmmaker, for example, or something that you want to, you know, you want to go do the film school thing and go do your thing and get your stories told, the best thing to do is just to go out your front door and start. Turn on your camera and start telling the stories, because your unique point of view is what is going to sell you. And your stories, because everyone is telling the same exact story in Hollywood. You know, there's only like five narratives going on and they're just being told over and over and over. And everyone, everyone knows that. And at the same time, everyone loves those five stories. So every time that story sells, I'm going to go to the theater, just like everybody else. But,  to get out there, you have to be unique. And the easiest way to be unique is to show where you live.

[00:15:59]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I love that. With that, I feel like something that I've observed about your work in particular and kind of who you are as a person, it seems like you do a lot of mentoring-- maybe not formally, sometimes formally--it seems like you bring interns in, and help them learn to sort a lot of on the job training and things. But can you speak to that aspect of what you enjoy or why that's important to you?

[00:16:25] Alden Miller: Yeah. it just feels like it's important to keep the knowledge flowing sort of thing. There's some people that talk about it is your, it is your duty to, like, send the elevator back down sort of thing. Like if you, after you've made it, you send other people down. I, by no means I'm thinking I've made it, but I do like seeing that we're fanning the flames of people being interested in any kind of creative endeavors is probably the best way to describe it. I used to try to fan the flames or throw gasoline on places where I thought there was fire and it doesn't work out very well. I'm taking a little bit of a step back waiting for more initiative to be happened on the other side. But, yeah, mentoring is important, I believe it helps, it makes you be a better artist as well, just so you understand the concepts and things. I find enjoyment in teaching things. And I, I guess I'm pretty decent at it, so I like to do it.

[00:17:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And then, so sort of along with that, what kind of organizations are you personally involved in that kind of help your creative side come out and also maybe sort of share and, inspire others as well?

[00:17:39] Alden Miller: Yep. So, here in Kansas City, there's a number of different groups that help filmmakers out there. I'm on the board of a couple of them. I currently happen to be the President of the Independent Filmmakers Coalition here in Kansas City. It is a 25-plus-year old organization that's been out there, and making films and showing people how to make films for a while. And it's a good place for a lot of people that come in. There's basically two types of people that come in. There was the person that, they're finding it in their twenties or thirties, and it's a nice artistic outlet for them. And they don't want to, they're not really interested in making filmmaking their vocation. They just want to do it for fun. There's also the younger people that come in, like they happen to find out about it. And they're about to go to film school or they're deciding if they want to go to film school. And so they're trying this out and getting some stuff under their belt before they go off to another school. And then there's some people that are just, they're just to connect with other filmmakers and that's where a lot of the mentoring takes place, I guess, just showing people the ropes. I talked to a lot of people's parents about whether Billy should go to film school or not. 

[00:18:50] Lindsey Dinneen: And one of the things that I personally have really admired about that organization is that you all are very collaborative in nature. And I think that that's really, that speaks to the strength of the organization and the people who are involved--but one particular aspect that I really like, in fact, it's how we first met is through-- and you had a great name for it--but basically artists would meet filmmakers. Obviously we're all artists, but different kinds of artists would meet filmmakers and those stories would be told at the Kansas City Fringe Festival. Can you share more about that whole process?

[00:19:32] Alden Miller: Sure, so, and ironically, it just kind of like 90% of those stories are documentary. So it's kind of funny that, you know, those are another one of those things that, telling stories about other artists in the area, whether you're a painter or a sculptor or a dancer or tattoo artists, you know, whatever kind of artistic things that are going on. It's just, it's just good to see other arts being displayed, I guess. And a lot of times those people don't have access to get their story told in that venue or that type of media. And so doing that is just, it's kind of a fun, it's just a fun, little collaborative thing for all the different artists in Kansas City to all work together.

[00:20:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. It's a really neat opportunity. And I hope in the future that it will continue when things get back to slightly normal, because it is really interesting. And I, one of the things I've always appreciated about the Fringe Festival in particular is how artists are supporting each other across mediums. And there's, there's not like a, "Oh, you're, you're a filmmaker and I'm a visual artist." Or, you know, that doesn't exist. And I think that's really cool about how supportive artists are of each other. Okay, so when you are talking to, let's say a parent, maybe their teen is there too, and you're in, you're trying to give some advice. What do you think is the most important thing to share with them when it comes to--like, what would you tell me if I wanted to maybe pursue this?

[00:21:02] Alden Miller: So the, my biggest thing that I talk about now is that everyone--and this is, you know, I'm sure you've heard this-- this story or this phrase before is that, you know, everyone has a camera in their pocket now. And so there is no excuse. If you want to go tell a story and you wanted to go make a video, like there is nothing holding you back. You know, when I started, I was running around with a film camera-- well, first I was running around with like one of those VCR shoulder-pack things. I went to school, ended up running around with a 16 millimeter camera and you're literally cutting film to piece it together to make your edits. And now we're talking about shooting stuff on your phone with an app and it's done in a minute. There's really no excuse. And so, which is good because you're taking away all the barriers, all the technical barriers. So people can go straight to creativity, and that's pretty much what technology is going to help us do in the future here, is going to make it more and more seamless for us. So we can be telling stories in a much faster and more organic way.

[00:22:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, I do have a few questions that I always like to ask my guests if you're okay with that.

[00:22:11] Alden Miller: Mhmm.

[00:22:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Cool. Okay. So the first one is how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:22:18]Alden Miller: Art is presenting whatever is in your head out to the world. It's like your mind's eye just kind of like showing it, you know, "Hey, this is what I'm thinking about, or this is what I'm feeling or showing."

[00:22:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:22:38] Alden Miller: The showing or expression of the art, because it does no good for it to be in your head, in your head alone.

[00:22:46]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah, absolutely. And then I'll define my terms a little bit for my final question, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And by inclusive, I'm referring to an artist who puts something out there and they have a little bit of context behind it, whether it's a title or program notes or something, versus exclusive, meaning the artists just puts their work out into the world and then doesn't necessarily put any context behind it. So it's completely up to the viewer what to interpret.

[00:23:21]Alden Miller: So I believe that,  from a film point of view, once the filmmaker is put the film out there-- you know, they've told them, they've written their story, they've shot their story, they've edited the story, they've done everything they can possibly do to get the story told in their mind-- and so it's out to the public and it is what it is. And you know, the public can take it for whatever it is, I believe, and they can interpret how they want, and whether that's right or wrong, like, I think the artist really just need to shut up and just let people think what they want to think about a certain thing. And if they don't like the way it has been interpreted, well, better get better next time.

[00:23:58] Lindsey Dinneen: About communicating exactly what you want to communicate essentially. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. All right. Well, is there a way for people who went to follow your work or, you know, see some of what you've done, is there a way for them to connect with you right now?

[00:24:16] Alden Miller: I think Instagram's probably the easiest way to get ahold of me, and that is @kcfilmmaker and @ @alchemyfilmco is the web address for that.

[00:24:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you again so much for being here today. All I really appreciate it. It was fun to hear your journey and how it's kind of morphed and changed over time. And I appreciate you sharing your perspective. So thank you again. I really appreciate it.

[00:24:44] Alden Miller: No problem, I hope, I hope it was entertaining.

[00:24:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Very. All right. Well, and thank you to everyone who has listened to this episode. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am, I would love if you would share it with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.

[00:25:02] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

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In this episode, I welcome Crystal Tiehen! Crystal is an intuitive health and wellness coach, as well as an artist who refinishes and repurposes furniture. She shares how art has played an important role in her life and journey from a difficult past to a healthy and vibrant future. (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is of one of the pieces of furniture that Crystal refinished!) 

Get in touch with Crystal Tiehen: www.crystalineyourjourney.com | www.crystalineyourlife.com | https://www.facebook.com/Crystaline-Your-Life-100378194657490/ | https://www.facebook.com/Crystal-Tiehen-Coaching-472918096439001/ | www.instagram.com/crystalineyourlife 

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Episode 25 - Crystal Tiehen

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:14] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.

[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as so beautiful.

[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so very delighted to have as my guest today, the absolutely lovely Cyrstal Tiehen, and she is the founder and creator and coach behind Crystaline Your Journey, which is a fabulous name based on your name, my dear. I love it. But thank you so much for being here today, Crystal. I'm so excited to have you.

[00:01:01] Crystal Tiehen: Thank you so much for having me. This is, this is a lot of fun and it's, and it's an honor.

[00:01:07]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, absolutely. Well, I would love if you would share just a little bit about yourself and maybe your involvement in art.

[00:01:15] Crystal Tiehen: Yes, absolutely. You know, I live the entrepreneurial life. Crystaline Your Journey was very intuitively called to me, if you will. And I am an Intuitive Wellness Coach, so I help people access emotional and spiritual freedom through an intuitive and spiritual approach. But that's not all I do. So, you know, very interestingly enough, art, if you will, creativity, is such a huge component to really choosing change because it is a choice and allowing transformation. And so what I chose to do, for my creative outlet, and what I encourage many of my clients as well is finding a creative outlet, but we'll talk a little bit about kind of a branch of Crystaline Your Journey that's Crystaline Your Life. That is my furniture art company. And I own an online franchise where I've partnered with a liquid wood technology that creates ease for design and repurposing and transforming furniture. 

[00:02:30] Lindsey Dinneen: So cool. So how'd you get started in that and what are some of your favorite pieces that you've worked on?

[00:02:38] Crystal Tiehen: Yeah, absolutely. You know, this is just kind of something that I kind of had a passion for. I've been doing it for about 10 years and without getting like too sappy, all of us have had different, you know, lived a different life, walked a different journey. And, you know, 10 years ago I was in a very, very different space. I was in a toxic relationship and abusive relationship, and what furniture art was for me in that time of my journey, and in that season of my journey was meditation before I even really knew what meditation was. You know, using a paintbrush, watching the paint change a piece was--it's transformative. It actually brings tears to my eyes right now that I think about it, because it led me, it let me be just me in that moment and not having to answer to anything else that was going on in my life. So very powerful space to be in. And I didn't even realize the relevancy of it to be perfectly honest. And I mean, sometimes it would take, sometimes it would take a month for me to get a piece finished, just because, if there was an altercation or if there was a conflict that happened in my home life, you know, I'd go downstairs and I'd sit with my paintbrush and sometimes I wouldn't even paint. So it was, it was therapeutic. I found therapy. Yeah. Yes.

[00:04:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And then, you know, that's an incredible story and thank you for sharing that, but then what's so neat to hear too, is that now you're doing this for other people, you're transforming something that they might not adore as much anymore--it doesn't match or whatever--and then you're giving them a new experience with something too, which is really cool.

[00:04:42] Crystal Tiehen: It's like, it lights me up. It lights me up to be able to, if you can imagine it, I can create it or I can show you how to create it. That's another beautiful aspect of choosing this as a creative outlet is this is something that I engage in, and practice in on a very regular basis. And so to share that with others, to share something that lights me up is an expression of myself. And I think it's so important that we express ourselves because when we suppress our expression, that's when fear can set in. That's when doubt, that's when worry, you know, you don't have fun. You know, we forget how to have fun. We forget to have joy in our experience and our process. So, yes. Thank you for, thank you for speaking to that because it's, it's an absolute joy to be able to be a part of that for people.

[00:05:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. What a unique gift that you have and can share! I just love that. Yeah. Well, and so, yeah, and so what kinds of art, obviously you've done a lot of painting and things like that, but what other kinds of art have you explored over your life so far?

[00:05:58] Crystal Tiehen: Wow. That's, that's a very interesting question. I mean, I have not done much in regards to like painting like on canvas and that sort of thing, but, you know, I really remember like getting into, I really enjoy coloring or even drawing mandalas. Like, that's always been something that I've enjoyed doing. Anytime I had a birthday or anything like that, that's what people would buy me. They buy me those mandalas that you can color in and create patterns with and mandalas are circular and speak to, you know, things always moving in time and not necessarily on a straight trajectory. And so, very powerful symbolism there that again, throughout my life I didn't know the significance of, so I've always been highly interested in that. I always remember my mom would take me to Creative Candles. I feel like that was very much a creative outlet as well when I was younger. So I don't know if you grew up in Kansas City, but Creative Candles used to be like this thing for like kids growing up in the eighties and we would go down, they would give you white candles and you got to dip them in all kinds of different colors of waxes and all kinds of stuff. And so that was always a lot of fun. That was definitely something that is brought to mind when it comes to the artistic view.

[00:07:32] And, I've always enjoyed coloring. The shading of it, being able to create dimension, dynamic-ism, if that's even a word. I do, I do remember I won a contest when there used to be Miners in Brookside. I don't know if anybody remembers that store, but it was a grocery store and it was called Miners and they had a contest to win a scooter. And it was a coloring contest. I entered it and I won. So I was 17 years old. I was young. I was really young, but I always enjoyed it. And I even enjoyed a little bit of drawing. I'm not so good with freehand, as much as like being able to look at something and recreate it. Thanks for asking.

[00:08:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, of course. Yeah. I'm always so curious because I know most of us have at least dabbled in a few different forms before maybe settling on one that really speaks to you, but that's so fun.

[00:08:37] Crystal Tiehen: It is.

[00:08:38] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.

[00:08:38] Crystal Tiehen: And I love your, I love your creative outlet and, and how you shine for people as well!

[00:08:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, well, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. So in your coaching, you talked before a little bit about being an intuitive coach and health and wellness and all that. How does art play a role into how you coach or, or does it play a role in, in any of that?

[00:09:03] Crystal Tiehen: Oh, absolutely. There's--depending upon where people are at in their journey, and what they're opening up to, what they're tuning into--that we're, we're such multifaceted beings. So we really have very many different facets of ourselves. And when someone is, is kind of stuck, or doesn't feel like they know how to pick their style or has questions about really being able to tune into the transformative process. Furniture art is something that I teach, I coach and really show that it can be therapy. You can really move through your emotions and open up to things that need to be seen in order to create transformation not only inwardly. But of course, you know, you're learning a skill set to create outwardly as well and let that expression come into reality.

[00:10:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And do you find that the clients that you work with are open to expressing themselves through art or is it sometimes a struggle depending on whether they feel like they can do it or not?

[00:10:15] Crystal Tiehen: Oh, it's definitely very interesting to watch how--you know, I, I work with the psyche and I've been intuitively studying this stuff and frequencies and vibration and really just an energetic approach. And when we are faced with doing something that is, we don't know how to do, it can be, it can be very challenging. And, it really is incredibly supportive to have someone to hold that space for you because you sometimes go back into, you know, get triggered and go back into spaces where things like this might have happened to you earlier on in your childhood and that sort of thing. So it really can be emotionally transformative.

[00:11:09]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, as you think back over either working with clients or your own experiences, are there any particular stories that really pop out to you as being, Wow. This is a moment to remember as having had an interaction with art and just how that kind of made a difference to you or your clients or anything like that?

[00:11:37] Crystal Tiehen: Yeah. I have an intuitive design therapy program that, you can find it crystalineyourlife.com, but I also work with the overall understanding of emotional intelligence and emotional maturity and spiritual connection. And I think probably the strongest, most beautiful results or side effect, if you will, with art and connecting art and self is really being able to tune into your higher self, tune into that higher version of who you are to become. Being able to, you know, see yourself limitless, being able to, to use your imagination in ways that you didn't know you had the capability of doing so. I don't have any necessarily anything specific to say to what a client experienced, because it really is different for every single one of us and our journeys, but being able to hold space for ourselves and for each other, that's really what's going to evolve us as humans and as beings.

[00:12:58]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah, absolutely. And so do you have any upcoming projects that you're particularly excited about or that you're working on as far as either the furniture side of things or your own projects and things?

[00:13:15] Crystal Tiehen: I mean, I'm always, you know, shaking and moving and grooving. I have quite a few projects that I've been doing that I'm going to be updating my gallery with. My gallery is on my website. And there is, I'm in process, it's still being kind of worked out with everything, you know, that we have been challenged with with COVID and stuff like that. But hopefully I'll be doing some classes here soon, collaborating, doing some classes for the liquid wood technology that I sell and that I promote. It's absolutely amazing because it literally will virtually turn any surface into wood, any hard surface into wood. And so you can stain it. You can grain it. There's so many different ways and combinations of using the different colors and the different stains. I mean, it's just, for me, it's like limitless. I, I just throw stuff on there and see what happens. And it always comes out very beautiful, but nothing to say that is specifically in place currently with dates or anything of that nature, but definitely a lot in the world.

[00:14:27]Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Excellent. And so are there any,  I know this is probably a difficult one to answer, but what is your favorite or maybe favorite couple of pieces that you've ever worked on that brought you even more joy because they were special in some way?

[00:14:45] Crystal Tiehen: Yeah, absolutely. One of them is a piece that I totally need to redo again, because it was one of my very first pieces. And it's probably been about 10 years since I've touched it, but it's, it's a two piece,  I think it's kind of like an armoire. It doesn't have the doors on it. It's just open. It's like what you would put in a dining room, like a shelving unit. That piece was probably the very first piece that that really showed me, "Wow, Crystal, this is, this is something significant. This is something that you've transformed and is now you can put into your home and feel good about it." Back then, there wasn't a lot for me to feel good about. So, so being able to, you know, find and allow something to let me feel good, was very powerful. So now I have what, so it's a two piece hutch, if you will, without doors on it. And one of the taller of the pieces sits in my Retique It room, which is liquid wood technology that I carry. And I have, I have all my Retique It stuff displayed on it and looking beautiful. And I have Retique It all throughout my house. And then the other part is in the room where my dogs stay and it has all my plants on it. So that's probably, that's probably the piece that brought me peace, if you will.

[00:16:19] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Well, I think you also touched on something really important and that is that, you know, at a time in your life when you said there wasn't a lot to feel good about to be able to have this outlet to help get you through and to feel proud of something that you created that's beautiful, that's yours. I mean, there is, that's not just an isolated thing, although I think you have just a really powerful story, but I mean, in general, that's the power of the arts, I think.

[00:16:52] Crystal Tiehen: Absolutely. I think you said that very beautifully. I think that's why it's so important to have a creative outlet.

[00:17:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, because there are seasons of life--I mean, gosh, especially now where it's tough and having something that you can do that brings you that joy is just so important. So. That's so cool.

[00:17:15] Crystal Tiehen: Thank you! Yeah, you know, and it's also brought me through to, you know, all, all of the, you know, steps that I have taken on this journey, spiritually, emotionally, but also creatively. And, you know, being able to connect with the CEO of this product that I now am partnered with and get to be involved in, in all the creativity of it. I mean, we have, we have product that comes out on our line on a regular basis. I mean, I have customized colors and there's so many things that are in play and that really give me that permission. I give myself the permission to play, to have fun, to feel creative. And when I don't win, when I'm down on myself, when I start feeling depression, because even though I'm a coach, that still can creep in every once in a while. Because I live in a, a lot of uncertainty, like a lot of us do, especially these days. And so when I am feeling that I know exactly what I can do to, to pull myself out of it, to relieve myself, to show myself self-love

[00:18:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Beautifully, beautifully worded there. So if you were to give somebody advice, maybe somebody who would be interested in starting something like what you're doing just for fun, you know, on the side, is there anything in particular that stands out to you as, as a takeaway that you would say, "Well absolutely make sure blah, blah, blah."

[00:19:04] Crystal Tiehen: Yeah. Let me think about that. I mean, I think it's important. Okay. I think it's important to be intuned and aligned and feel empowered through the inspiration that you choose. There's so much influence out there, so much influence, and it really depends on where you're at in your journey. So really, who do you listen to, and who do you pay attention to, and who do you choose to give your money to? And, you know, in order to really be able to engage and, trying this out, you know, and that choice to, to explore being creative. So I think the advice would be--really be aligned and tuned in to who is giving you that inspiration and what you're going to do with that inspiration.

[00:20:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. That's great advice. Thank you for sharing that. All right. Well, I do have three questions that I love to ask my guests, if you're okay with that.

[00:20:12] Crystal Tiehen: Well, of course!

[00:20:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, perfect. So the first one is how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:20:22] Crystal Tiehen: Art is a creative outlet. It's an emotional support. It's, it's a way to give ourselves permission to be a child to bring fun into our life, to not have to be so serious all the time and, and really be able to explore that childlike facet of ourselves. And even if it's not childlike, just being able to, to bring something that only you have created into this world. That's what art is.

[00:21:02]  Lindsey Dinneen: I love that, great answer. All right. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:21:10]Crystal Tiehen: You know, it's interesting because I wouldn't even call it a role. I believe we are all artists because we are all co-creators. This is a belief system that I, I choose to really lean into is that we are all co-creators. And so having it as a role is something to say, I'm going to prioritize this. I'm going to prioritize the fact that I have the capability to be creative. I have the capability to be an artist and, and really being able to open up those doors for anyone that is willing to embrace it.

[00:21:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then my final question, and I'll explain my terms a little bit is, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive, and inclusive refers to an artist to incorporate some kind of context behind what they share with the world. So whether that's as simple as a title or it's some history behind it, or kind of just basically context. Versus exclusive referring to an artist who creates their work, puts it out there and leaves it entirely to the interpretation of its audience.

[00:22:37] Crystal Tiehen: Hm. I'm gonna, I'm gonna tune into this one real quick. This is a deeper question. I think that our love for art is a lost art and there is a connectivity to loving oneself and creativity and choosing to embrace what art is here to be, what art has, is gifted us to be. So for it to be inclusive or exclusive, it is, I think it is up to the soul. I think it is up to the soul and when we can release any, any necessarily specific identification, it being inclusive or exclusive is when we can really support the artist for exactly who they're choosing to be.

[00:23:38]Lindsey Dinneen: Very nice. Thank you for that. That's a different perspective than I've heard before, and I absolutely love hearing different perspectives. So thank you for that. All right. Well, if anyone wants to follow your journey or connect with you, is there a way for them to do that?

[00:23:56] Crystal Tiehen: Absolutely. I have many different ways, but crystalineyourjourney--that's crystaline with one L-- crystalineyourjourney.com is my intuitive coaching site. And then crystalineyourlife.com is my online website, where you can find all the paints, all the liquid wood, all the fun stuff that will let you start kind of playing around and seeing what is part of your journey. And then you can find me on social media. I'm on Facebook, under Crystal Tiehen Coaching, but I'm also very present, just with Crystal Tiehen. So you can always find me there as well. And then on Instagram is @crystalineyourlife. 

[00:24:40]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And I would definitely encourage our listeners to check out her websites. I have gotten to see some pictures of the furniture that she's created and it's stunning. It's so much fun to see creativity. Yeah. And the beauty of what all that. So definitely go check that out no matter what. And, if you need any intuitive coaching or any  furniture that just might need a fresh face, Crystal is definitely your girl.

[00:25:18] Crystal Tiehen: Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I do custom work. So like I said originally, if you can imagine it, we can create it. So, it's always a good thing to spice things up, to freshen things up, to clear energy.

[00:25:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, definitely. All right. Well, thank you so much, Crystal, for being with us today and thank you, especially for sharing art with the world. I think that when you're willing to do that, that you really do make the world a better, more beautiful, more inclusive place. So thank you for sharing your art. I really do appreciate it. And thank you for being here.

[00:25:59] Crystal Tiehen: Yes. Thank you for having me. It's truly, like I said, it's really was an honor and, I really appreciate it.

[00:26:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, of course. So much fun to talk with you. Well, if you are feeling as inspired as I am, I would love if our listeners would just share this episode with a friend or two, and thank you so much for listening as well, and we will catch you next time.

[00:26:25]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:26:34]Hey, Artfully Told listeners, I'm excited to share with you about Audible. As a podcast listener yourself, you already know how great it is to listen to something while you're driving or doing dishes or whatever it is. Audible has thousands of titles of audio books, as well as podcasts and other cool things. And they're offering a free audio book to Artfully Told listeners! When you sign up for a free trial membership, you'll have 30 days to decide if Audible is right for you. And you can cancel at any time without being charged and still keep your free audio book. Sign up for your free trial and audio book at www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Again, that's www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Thanks, Artfully Told listeners.

In this episode, I welcome Helen Ransom! Helen is the owner and photographer of Faces You Love Photography, and she shares about finding her niche, building her business, and what she loves the most about her job. (Fun fact: the cover image of this episode is one of Helen's photos!)

Get in touch with Helen Ransom: www.facesyoulove.com | www.facebook.com/facesyoulove | www.instagram.com/facesyoulove 

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Episode 24 - Helen Ransom

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:14] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.

[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.

[00:00:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host, Lindsey, and today I am delighted to have, as my guest, the lovely Helen Ransom. She is the owner and photographer extraordinare behind Faces You Love Photography. And she is joining us actually from her studio today, which is super cool just down the road from my house actually! A little trivia. Thank you so much, Helen, for joining us. I really appreciate it.

[00:01:04] Helen Ransom: Thank you for having me, Lindsey. And I'm thankful today for a quiet studio that I could escape to.  Lindsey and I met a long time ago when you started dancing in the same company that my sister is in. So we've had a few little run-ins here and there, but then got reconnected on a more personal level through Polka Dot Powerhouse. And I loved having you in the studio for headshots recently, and kind of working together and collaborating on that. And now I'm just so excited to be part of your podcast, cause I've never done this before.

[00:01:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Wahoo! I'm so glad you're here. Yes, it was such a blast to being at her studio. She has the cutest little studio. She's so good at making everyone to feel at ease. And I mean, I was laughing at myself a lot because apparently my posing needs some work.

[00:02:01] Helen Ransom: No! Stop it. You were great. You were great.

[00:02:05] Lindsey Dinneen: No, it was a great time. But yeah, so, Helen, how did you get started in photography? What sparked all of that for you?

[00:02:11] Helen Ransom: You know, it's funny. I, people ask me this all the time. They start with, you know, "Well, how long have you been in business?" And, and you know, "How long have you loved photography?" And, and my earliest memory of really loving photography goes all the way back to when I was probably nine or 10 years old. And for Christmas, I really wanted a camera and I didn't need a big camera. But of course back when I was nine or 10, it wasn't digital, it was going to be film. And I was so excited when I got this little Vivitar camera for Christmas. And, it was just a lot of fun to be taking pictures of family and my dog and things that were happening.

[00:02:51] And so that really started my love of it. And then, I kind of fell away for a while and then I had kids and I had a really crummy point-and-shoot camera. And I thought, "You know what? I'm being way too picky about these pictures. I need to upgrade." And so I suddenly remembered all of the savings bonds that my grandparents had given me for each birthday when I was growing up. And I hopped online and I looked and they were all mature. And so I marched myself into my bank and cashed them in and bought my first digital SLR camera and started teaching myself how to use it. And that was about 11 years ago now.

[00:03:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Oh my goodness. That's a such a great story.

[00:03:36] Helen Ransom: I love that my grandparents have such a part in it and I always bring that up to them on Grandparents' Day. And I'm like, "Hey, just to remember, shout out to my grandparents." And my grandma is the only one still around, but you know, I always give them a little shout out. I'm like, all those little savings bonds you gave me every year for my birthday when I was a kid, kind of propelled me into this career that I never would have dreamed I would have, and it's changing my family and it's changing other families when they have beautiful portraits. And it's just really special. I love that. They helped me get my start and that wasn't even the intention back when they gave me all those savings bonds.

[00:04:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's, that's beautiful. What a great story. So, okay, so you started to teach yourself how to do photography professionally, but what kind of let you, or what made you decide to take it from-- not that it was necessarily ever just a hobby--but you know, from more of a hobby to a professional career, essentially.

[00:04:38] Helen Ransom: You know, it, it wasn't really my intention. I have a background in radio. That's what I did. It was my big interest all through high school and college. And then my early days of, being married and out on my own, and then I had kids and I wasn't going back to work, and I got this great camera and started messing with it and teaching myself how to really do things well and actually use the camera in the mode it should be used in. And friends started noticing that I was doing pretty well and taking pretty great pictures of my own kids. And they started asking me if I would take pictures of their kids. And so, so when I had a year where I had three different families asking me, "Would you take pictures of my kids?" And one of those families said, "I'll even barter you for it. We have a big chest freezer sitting unused, and you have lots of kids. Would you like said chest freezer in exchange?" So that was basically my first paid gig was I did pictures and they gave me a chest freezer and I was like, "You know what, Nick?"--I talked to my husband-- I said, "Nick, I think maybe I need to look into this." And so he said, "Why don't you talk to your friend, Jennifer, who is a photographer and has been in business and see if she thinks you're ready?" And so we sat down and she said, "I think you're ready, Helen. And here's what you need to do to get started. "And.The rest is history. That was nine and a half years ago now.

[00:06:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Oh my goodness. And so is there any particular niche that you feel is something that you absolutely love or are--I know from  experienc-- you do a whole wide variety of things which I love, but is there one thing in particular that kind of captures your heart?

[00:06:32] Helen Ransom: You know, it's funny. I, so I go back and forth. Like if you had asked me two years ago, this question I would have said, "I just want the babies. Give me your babies." I want to do nothing but newborns and babies and the families that come along with them. And I am good. But then a year ago, I, I had moved into this new studio. I had a lot more space to do inside work, and another photographer kept encouraging me to branch out and add in headshots, but not just like your boring headshots, more fun headshots, as you experienced. And so I've been doing that for about a year and I get such a kick out of that too. Mostly because so many of the headshots I do are of women.

[00:07:26] And, you know, we women do not like to be photographed. We are not a fan of seeing ourselves up close in those ways. We are so self-critical. And so I get such a thrill now, now out of doing a headshot day and having woman after woman come in, and I can tell they're apprehensive, and I can tell they are not excited about this, but they feel like they have to do it. And then they look at their pictures, and they aren't even edited,  cleaned up, you know, made the right brightness and contrast, and they get excited about seeing themselves. And that is so gratifying to me, and also to my hair and makeup artist. She loves it too, of seeing these women kind of transform in front of us and get so excited about a portrait of themselves. And so I would say I equally love now the headshots with these women and the babies. I still really love the babies. Keep giving me the baby.

[00:08:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. And we'll share some contact information at the end, but definitely, if you're listening to this podcast and you haven't yet seen her photography, definitely go check it out because yeah, the baby photos are so adorable. I can't handle it.

[00:08:43] Helen Ransom: They kind of steal the show, honestly.

[00:08:46] Lindsey Dinneen: They do. They do. They're just so cute. And she's got all of these props and little accessories and all sorts of things to just make it so fun. And it's just the most precious thing ever. So do you still do, or have you done much wedding photography, or are you kind of more in the sort of, you know, family portraits and?

[00:09:07] Helen Ransom: You know, I have done, I have assisted at one wedding and I have photographed a second wedding. And I think you were even maybe at or in that second wedding, I don't remember. It was a long time ago.

[00:09:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.

[00:09:21]Helen Ransom:  And yeah, and I loved the day of, because who doesn't love a wedding, I love a wedding, but it was really stressful because there is so much pressure to get it right. And what if my equipment fails or something goes wrong with my card? And then I am not going to lie. I was bored to death with the editing of the same faces for so many days, because you take a lot of pictures of the wedding. And after I did that, I said, "You know, I could've spent the same amount of time photographing eight to 10 different families, and then I'm at least editing other faces and it's probably gonna work out to about the same amount of money." I think, you know, weddings just are not for me.  I'm going to let other photographers who rock at weddings  continue to roc aet weddings, and I'm just not going to do those.

[00:10:18] Lindsey Dinneen: I think that is completely fair because you just found what you love and you stick to it. I mean, it's, that makes complete sense to me.  So I'm just curious, are there any photographs that really just sort of stand out in your mind that you've taken that either have a story behind them, or just the moment just had something that really like--if you could pick a couple of favorites--what, what would that look like?

[00:10:46] Helen Ransom: So I have a couple of favorites that weren't necessarily a favorite to me, but I know now that they are a favorite to the family, because somebody in that portrait has passed on unexpectedly and knowing that that family treasures that photograph, because it is a beautiful memory of their loved one. It's life-giving to me to know that they have, that I was able to give them that. So that's a huge thing. And that has happened several times over these, you know, nine plus years in business. But then there's others. Like, so last year I started trying to branch out and get into photographic competitions, like really big deals where they're actually harshly judged, not the popularity contest, vote for my picture, who can get up the biggest social media presence. And it's been fun too. Last year when I entered, I just entered pictures I'd already taken of clients. This year when I entered, I put thought into some of my entries. Like I was like, what kind of story can I tell with these pictures? And, and because of COVID, all of the competitions got pushed. And so pictures that should have been judged a couple of months ago, they're still accepting entries right now in those contests.

[00:12:08] And,  I won't know how they're judged until probably a month from now, but one of those pictures in particular, I really put some thought into and I am so excited to see how it does in judging. And even if it doesn't do well, I'm totally going to post that sucker because I think a lot of people are going to resonate with it, but I had a mom come in and I said, "We're going to make you look more tired than you usually are." Because most women, when they come in and do a picture, you want to look good. Right? That's the whole reason I have Kim here doing hair and makeup is to make us not look so tired and look like our best rested selves. And I said, "When you come in, we're going to do the opposite. We're going to enhance those dark circles. We're going to make your hair look a little greasy and messy because you haven't had time for a shower. We're going to let your toddler look like they are drawing on the walls in the studio." We're like, we're going to do some stuff here.

[00:13:11] The scene, I had a plant tipped over. I taped up white paper to the wall in the studio to run into the white walls already here so that her toddler could draw on the paper, but it looked like he was drawing on the walls. We had a dirty diaper balled up on the floor, and I planted mom on the floor next to her baby, just sitting there. And I gave her an empty coffee cup and I was like, "Just stare. Like stare into space. Like you were just exhausted. You have had the longest day. I am done." And I love the way that picture came out because it tells such a story. Now I feel like everybody's going to look at it and be like, "Oh, it's a portrait of a COVID mom. I took that picture before COVID but. Let's just be clear here. I feel like I need to keep saying, I took that picture like two weeks before COVID was a thing and shut everything down, but everybody thinks it's just a portrait of a COVID mom. That's fine. Whatever, but I love that picture and I am super excited about it. And I've been holding it until contests are judged before I put it out there. Just so that, it doesn't ever get back, 'cause you want it to be anonymous in judging, and I don't want it to somehow get back to judges who took it, but I'm really excited to share that picture later this year and let people see what it looks like.

[00:14:34] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Oh, how exciting. Well, I'm definitely rooting for you. That's that's really exciting. Of course, of course. So one of the things that has always been kind of challenging, I think, for artists who turn maybe what was a hobby into a career, sort of how to price that? Is that something that you've... how, how did you go about that? 'Cause I know that can be a challenge.

[00:15:00] Helen Ransom: It is a challenge because when I started out, I started out like I think a lot of artists do of  I'm just passionate about this. This is fun for me. And I want people to have beautiful pictures and, and I'm going to price myself really low because everybody should have these beautiful things and I'm just passionate about it. And if I make a little money, it's a great perk. And I think a lot of us fall into that trap because it's easy to do because we do, we start out, and we're so passionate and excited. But then about four months in, I was working ridiculous hours trying to edit and turn pictures around for people. And it was routine for my husband to go to bed at 11 and say, "Are you going to bed?" And I'd say, "No, I have to get these galleries edited," and I'd be up until two or three in the morning. And he finally said to me, he said, "This can't continue like this. You, you have to fix something, 'cause we can't keep doing this." And I did the math and figured out that with all the hours I was putting in, I was making about $5 an hour.

[00:16:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh!

[00:16:06] Helen Ransom: And I thought, "Wow, I could be making more money at a fast food restaurant." And I wouldn't be working as much and I thought, "This isn't going to fly." And so I started just guessing and raising the prices a little bit. And then later, as I've progressed through the years and the career, I thought, "You know what? I invest a lot of my time into this." And yes, this is a gift that people love. They want this beautiful portrait of their family and their memories, or they want this, you know, amazing baby picture, or a fantastic headshot that's going to land them that next great job. But I also, I invest a lot of my time and energy and a lot of my resources into this. And this is more than just pushing the button. There's a lot more that happens here that the client's not here for, and I should be paid for that and I should be profitable. And it's a hard line to walk sometimes because we feel badly charging for a talent we have. When to the person, you know, the viewer, the recipient, whatever they feel like, you know, for what they saw, I didn't, it didn't take me that long. And I think they think that about, you know, dancers and people who paint or do pottery. Like they're just seeing the end product. They're not seeing all the blood, sweat, and tears and money that goes into it at the end.

[00:17:40] And so it's a battle. And I feel like in the last couple of years, I've really come into that of owning that this is my price and yes, different than other photographers, but I have a different cost of doing business. Maybe I've invested more time and money into developing my skills and maybe I just, I'm putting out a superior product. And I know that, and it's up to me to say, this is what I do, and this is why it's really excellent and fantastic, and why you should choose me. But I have to make peace with the fact that some people don't place the value of the same level as I do, and that's fine. They would rather spend their money on other things. And I have to make peace with that and be okay with it.

[00:18:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And those clients are probably not your dream clients either. I mean, it probably goes both ways.  Something that I've admired about you, getting to know you a little bit better, is that you are constantly learning. You're not just saying, "I got it all." Even the other day, you know, you posted something about how excited you were, you learned a different editing technique, and I thought, "You know what? That is so cool." You're not just complacent and say, "All right, I know everything."

[00:18:54] Helen Ransom: Yes!

[00:18:54] Lindsey Dinneen: You know.

[00:18:55] Helen Ransom: No, I think it is really important to be constantly as artists, whatever genre you're in, trying to improve against your past self. It's really easy sometimes to get caught up in comparing ourselves to other artists in the same genre. And that's a dangerous place to be. I had to unfollow a whole lot of photographers for awhile on my social media channels, because I was getting too wrapped up in, their pictures are better than mine. They're doing more business than me. And a lot of times it's a lie anyway. But it's a lie we tell ourselves and we can get wrapped up in it. And so I had to be really good about that. And then focusing on "No, how can I better myself from where my pictures were or where my business was or what my plan was even six months ago, how can I make it better?" And so I'm constantly looking for ways that I can improve against my past self.

[00:19:51]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. I love that. Yeah, your only competition is yourself.

[00:19:56] Helen Ransom: Really! It should be that way.

[00:19:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Absolutely. Well, I'm also curious, how it was to transition from-- you know, you are still basically a one-woman show, with Kim, who's a fantastic makeup and hair artist, as well. But to go from sort of working just by yourself, in your home or out of your home, to now having a brick and mortar studio--how was that transition? 'Cause that's, that's a big step forward.

[00:20:25] Helen Ransom: It was a really big step forward. And so when I moved to having a studio, it was a much smaller space and it was a little bit sooner than I had originally anticipated doing, but a great space opened up and I knew I had to jump on it when I could. It was really fun. It's funny though, because I heard all these great stories about photographers, who say, "Oh, as soon as I moved into a brick and mortar studio, I had so much more business. I had so many more inquiries because they feel like you're a legit photographer." I didn't experience that at all, which was a big disappointment I had to get over quickly and realize, okay, just because I have a brick and mortar studio doesn't mean business is going to fall into my lap. I still need to hustle because kansas City has a ridiculous number of photographers for how many people are in this city. It is insane and having the studio was wasn't the magic solution for getting more business, but having the studio pre-COVID was really great at helping me draw more boundaries so that I could leave work at work.

[00:21:35] And I didn't have the constant temptation to edit late at night, or edit through dinner while Nick and the kids were eating, and I was somewhere else editing on a laptop, and it forced me to leave work at work. Now I'm struggling with do that again with COVID and I've pretty much moved all of my editing time back home, so that I can be home to monitor my kids now doing distance learning and all these things. And so it's a little bit harder again, and I'm having a hard time struggling with that balance. So I would say that's been one of the biggest things, though, of having the studio is forcing me to have that balance, and scheduling things the right way to keep that balance in check. It's a nice perk to have when I can utilize it the way I like to utilize it.

[00:22:21] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. What a great way to use the space too, as establishing boundaries for yourself and for your work. So that's just something that entrepreneurs across the board, whether they're artists or not, I feel like that's just a struggle of when to stop working because you've got to hustle, but at the same time, life is going to keep trickling by and you're going to miss it if you don't have those boundaries. So yeah.

[00:22:49] Helen Ransom: Exactly. It's, it's such a struggle. It's just hard because you feel like if I don't hustle, there's nobody else hustling for me.

[00:22:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.

[00:22:57] Helen Ransom: If I don't do it, it's not going to get done. And if I don't reply to this new inquiry, they might move on to somebody else. And so I've had to be really strict with myself about not answering emails on the weekends and not answering business texts at 10 o'clock at night. They can wait until the morning, but it's, it's a hard, fine line to walk.

[00:23:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely true. Oh my goodness. Yes. Okay. So are there any particular stories that stand out to you either through your own business or through observing other art that just really resonate, that kind of stick in your mind as this moment to remember?

[00:23:35] Helen Ransom: There are a couple of times I have had clients come in to look at their pictures and I do it in a really unique way. For regular portraits, where I print everything and I put them in mats and I put them all on one wall in my studio. And so when parents walk back through the door a week or 10 days after their session, they're greeted by a wall of their baby or their family or their high school senior, or, you know, it was just time for an update on their kids. And I have had several times, times where the session ends itself and kids are kids and they aren't behaving like perfect angels, which they shouldn't. It's fine. They're kids, they're small people. They can't handle it. And mom is convinced it was a terrible session and I got nothing. And then she walks in and sees this wall full of beautiful portraits and cries because she is so happy. And she is so in love with these pictures of her babies. And it's just, she will say, "You just...it's them. Like that is their expression. They're always like that. I can't believe you got that smile out of them." And I love when I have to hand a box of tissues to mom, because she is so elated, and in love with these portraits, it is the best part of my job. I love the shoot day, but yeah when I can watch that first reaction of a parent coming in and seeing that wall and being in awe, especially if they cry, I feel like I've done my job.

[00:25:15]Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. What a funny way of articulating it. I totally, I'm onboard with you, but this is so funny. If I can make a client cry, I've done my job.

[00:25:24] Helen Ransom: Yeah, I've totally done my job! And it's great for one of those headshot session days that Kim and I did back last winter, and one of those women was, "Ahh, you know, it's just, I feel awkward and I don't love pictures of myself." And she was really thinking she was not going to like anything. And I think she was thinking in her head, "Helen, I'm not going to like any of these. We're going to look at them, but I'm going to make you go back out there and we're going to do some more." And we looked at, I think it was probably the fourth or fifth picture in, and she literally jumped up off the couch in excitement because she loves that picture of herself so much. I can make a woman do that. And women are so self-critical and we don't like pictures of ourselves. And I made her jump off the couch because she was excited about this picture. Again, I have done my job.

[00:26:18] Lindsey Dinneen: That is fantastic. Wow. Oh, my word, I love that so much. Well, you have a very particular way of capturing, like bringing out something that I think, especially as a woman, you don't even know about yourself necessarily, and then you have a way of just, coaxing it forward. And then all of a sudden the results, you think, "Wow. Where did that come from? Yes. I love this." Yeah. Yeah. That's really neat. So what's on the horizon for you? I mean, this is a strange time of life for everyone, but do you have any kind of big things coming up or anything like that

[00:26:57] Helen Ransom: I would say just the biggest thing that I'm, well, I mean, right now I am just trying to plug along and keep the business surviving this weird, weird year, because I still have clients who don't feel a hundred percent safe, coming out and doing a session even though every precaution is taken. I am wearing a mask the entire time, whether inside or outside and precautions are taken, but some people just aren't comfortable or they lost jobs or were furloughed for a while and they just don't have the money. And so right now I am a hundred percent focused on maintaining the business so that it survives and sees the post-COVID world. But post-COVID, I am already looking ahead about a year and a half from now. And the next Faces You Love dream is to be able to purchase a building, and have my studio in a very permanent place and not have to do this renting office space from somebody else. That, that's the ultimate dream. I would love to purchase a building. And so I'm starting to save so that I can hopefully make that happen in about a year and a half.

[00:28:04] Lindsey Dinneen: That's so cool. All right. I'm excited about that.

[00:28:08] Helen Ransom: It's kind of a big, scary, audacious dream, but nothing's going to happen if I don't dream big dreams. So I'm going to go for it.

[00:28:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. I love it. Oh, that's so exciting. Well, I will be eagerly watching that journey unfold. Oh, excellent. Excellent. Yeah. Well, I have three questions that I like to ask my guests. Is it okay if I go ahead, and dive in? Okay. Wonderful. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:28:41] Helen Ransom: I have learned over the years, having a sister who dances and having my mom who loves nature photography and myself, I prefer the people side of things. Art is a lot of things to me. And art is walking through the Plaza Art Fair and admiring all the different mediums. And art is watching my sister dance and seeing the way that storytelling can happen that way with no words and just movement. And art is the beauty of nature and the majesty of creation. And art is a smiling toddler, or a mom rubbing noses with her sweet baby. It's all art and it's beautiful. And to me it describes humanity and the world we're living in.

[00:29:35] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's beautiful. Okay. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:29:44] Helen Ransom: I think it's storytelling and it's trying to capture that moment, whatever that moment is. And, and the role of the artist is to tell that story the way they see it. And, you know, so for me, it was like that competition image that I've entered of the mom who was just done with the day and trying to capture that in a way that maybe people who, you know, if some men could see that be like, "Oh, that's why the dishes are still dirty when I come home, because she's done. She's done what she can to keep the kids alive." And I think the role of the artist is just to tell that story and to draw attention to things in the world.

[00:30:29] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And then my final question is, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is inclusive meaning that when the artists presents something to the world, they have a little bit of context. I mean, a title, it could be as simple as a title, or it could be program notes or some explanation of what the artist was sort of envisioning, versus exclusive being a little bit more, the artist creates something puts it out and doesn't really provide any context. So it's kind of more only up to the viewer to determine what they will with it. If that makes sense.

[00:31:10] Helen Ransom: Yes. And I will say for me personally, I enjoy viewing art and having even a tiny bit of context, even if it is just a title so that I can start to then use my own imagination to go with what they were looking for here. "Cause I think a title even can convey a lot and help draw the viewer down the path that you were hoping they would go. So I am a fan of inclusive, and having at least a tiny bit of context included.

[00:31:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And I'm curious, so with your photography and granted--most of what you do is for the family so like a title wouldn't be needed--but when you are submitting to contests and things like that, do you provide, is that part of it, providing any context, or is it just, this stands alone on its own?

[00:32:04] Helen Ransom: So it's interesting. So there are two big photography competitions that I enter. And last year, both of them, you had to include your title and it was only a title. You were not supposed to provide another description other than just titling it. And this year, one of those competitions remove the title option and it kind of irritated me because I thought, "No, but my title really goes along with the portrait and I want it to help you understand, you know, that this is the direction I wanted you to go with it." The other competition still does want a title. And the title I've been told from judging is very, it's very important. How you title your image is important. So for those situations, yes, I do have to type it obviously for a family portrait. I don't title anything. They just get their picture.

[00:32:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Well, I was just curious because yeah, I mean, when it's for a private viewing, they know who they are. Right. But right. I was just thinking in context of like, if you were to do a gallery or something like that, you know? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Which actually brings up a question: in your building, would you have a gallery?

[00:33:21] Helen Ransom: I don't know! I might if I had enough room. I think it would be fun to have rotating gallery of local artists, having things hanging there, you know, and do different themes or, or whatever. Or if somebody had a whole set of things, I think that would be fun. It's it's an interesting thing to dream about, depending on the size of the building I can afford.

[00:33:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Exactly. Well, while we're dreaming big, we'll just make sure it's big enough for that.

[00:33:48] Helen Ransom: We might as well, really.

[00:33:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Well, Helen, first of all, thank you so very much for being here with me today. I really appreciate it, but I would love to know if there are good ways for our listeners to get in contact with you if they're interested in your photography or just to chat or whatever, is there a way for them to do that?

[00:34:07] Helen Ransom: So, yes, I would love that. So my website is facesyoulove.com. It's all spelled out. And then you can also search Faces You Love on Instagram and Facebook. So those are all great ways to get in touch with me. My studio is in South Kansas City, but I am happy to also travel to people's homes. And hey, while we're talking big, crazy dreams, I know there are destination wedding photographers. I would love to be a destination newborn photographer. I'm just gonna put that out there. I think that'd be amazing.

[00:34:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes! Oh, how cool would that be?

[00:34:42] Helen Ransom: I know! So, yeah. So those are your best ways is just to search Faces You Love and I'm it. So you're going to find me that way.

[00:34:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Excellent. Well, again, thank you so much for being here today and thank you also for giving your gift to the world. I think that when you do embrace something that you love and you make it your profession, or whether you just create for the sake of creating, I really believe that that makes the world a better, more beautiful place. So I want to thank you for sharing your art and, and for being here.

[00:35:21] Helen Ransom: Thank you so much for having me, Lindsey. I appreciate the opportunity.

[00:35:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And like I said, please definitely get in touch with Helen. At least peek at her photography. It is so incredible. Her, her newborn photos are my favorites, but she's a very versatile photographer and has a lot of great content and I know you're going to love looking through it. So definitely do that.   Well, thank you again for listening. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am, I would love if you share this episode with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.

[00:35:56] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:36:06]Hey, Artfully Told listeners, I'm excited to share with you about Audible. As a podcast listener yourself, you already know how great it is to listen to something while you're driving or doing dishes or whatever it is. Audible has thousands of titles of audio books as well as podcasts and other cool things. And they're offering a free audio book to Artfully Told listeners when you sign up for a free trial membership! You'll have 30 days to decide if Audible is right for you, and you can cancel at any time without being charged and still keep your free audio book. Sign up for your free trial and audio book at www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold again.  That's www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Thanks, Artfully Told listeners!

In this episode, I welcome Lantz McDonald! Lantz has dabbled in many different forms of art over the years, and shares about how art has been a constant in his life, regardless of the ups and downs. He discusses how abstract art, in particular, has spoken to him, and how one art form can inspire another. (Fun fact: the cover image for this episode is a photo of Lantz, taken by him!)

Get in touch with Lantz's pick for his favorite local artist to support: https://oddesy9design.wixsite.com/bmiremadiart 

Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart 

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Episode 23 - Lantz McDonald

Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.

[00:00:08] Krista: Artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.

[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.

[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.

[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.

[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to have on my podcast today, my friend, Lantz McDonald. Lantz and I actually met through my husband. And gosh, now it's been probably--what--like six years, I think?

[00:00:53] Lantz McDonald: Yeah, somewhere around there.

[00:00:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And so Lantz  has his day job. And then he also has this fantastic, creative side to him too that comes out in all sorts of different artwork, and I am just so excited to have him on the show specifically, because I think that his particular take on art is really unique and special and his artwork is really cool. And so thank you so much, Lantz, for being here today.

[00:01:25] Lantz McDonald: Yeah. Thank you. That was, that was a really nice compliment. Thank you. Yeah, it's kinda surreal to be here. Thanks for having me on.

[00:01:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course, of course. Well, I'd love to hear a little bit about kind of what started your dabbling, so to speak, in art. 'Cause I know you've kind of done a little bit of a variety. So what kind of prompted you?

[00:01:47]Lantz McDonald: I mean really, I just think it's, it kind of built into my core maybe.  I have had a really interesting relationship with art as a whole since I was a child that it's kind of been this, like this, for lack of a better term, like a best friend, that's just kind of been around when I, I need it. And, it's been kind of a rollercoaster of relationship too. I guess just to start, so just to, to give a premise for my experiences since childhood-- so, just a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with autism. And, I didn't know, I'm 33 now. I didn't know for, you know, 30 plus years, that I was on the spectrum. And so as a child, I didn't really like music.  I didn't really see the point in it. And I'm talking like, I dunno, like five, six plus years old.  And, it had partially, it was partially to do with, you know, how what home I was raised in and the ideas around that. And, eventually, I kind of branched out and discovered that there was, you know, music outside of the small bubble, and really fell in love with it. And I wouldn't say that it was like the start of my creative side coming out, but it was definitely an important part.

[00:03:02] And, I guess from there I started drawing, took a bunch of different music classes over the years, nothing stuck. I'm terrible at instruments, just the worst. I did eventually learn to play drums and, after trying piano, violin, clarinet, guitar, bass, the triangle, probably--I don't know-- the drums actually clicked with me. And I played that for a few years, nothing serious or anything. And, for your listeners, I'm sure it'll be quite the pattern, but I just kind of dabbled in it. And, from there I, did some canvas painting for a couple years. I did some sculpting, I guess, a few years before that. I think as I'm learning about myself over my lifetime, I just like to accumulate skills and learn different things, as broad of a statement as that is. I just want to, you know, experience everything and art is a huge part of life. It's in so many different facets that I don't feel like most people even realize. So yeah, it's with me and art has been kind of an up and down thing, and I dive real hard when I dive, and sometimes I get back out of the water for a bit, but I'll be sure to dive in with something else again, too.

[00:04:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and thank you for sharing your story. I think that, yeah, it's so cool to hear how art can-- I actually love the way you put it-- it can be your best friend that comes along through life's ups and downs. And the great thing about art is that, I mean, you might judge it, but it doesn't judge you back.

[00:04:51] Lantz McDonald: Yes, exactly.

[00:04:53] Lindsey Dinneen: You know? And so just having that outlet for what you're feeling and what you're going through is awesome.

[00:04:59] Lantz McDonald: Absolutely.

[00:05:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I like it. Yeah. So at this point, so you mentioned music, and you've done painting, and you've done sculpture and things like that. Is there one of them that you feel was the best creative outlet, or do you feel like--like you've said you dabbled in so many, so is it sort of like what's needed in the moment?

[00:05:24] Lantz McDonald: That's a really good question. I think it's a yes to both. I think for your first question, I think the one that's maybe touched me the most was my drum kits. But the problem with that is when you're growing up in apartments, it's not exactly conducive to having happy neighbors. So,  I do plan to eventually play drums again. I'm just kinda in the mix of some different stuff right now. It seems like I always am. But, but to your second question. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I, life has a lot of ups and downs and there's definitely room for art in those ups and downs, but I guess for me more so, it's art has really made a connection with me and I've really tried to discover my creative side and the limits of that. And, and the sadder times, or the more angry times or, you know--a friend of mine who works with children told me there's no such thing as good and bad feelings. There's only comfortable feelings and uncomfortable feelings. So I guess in that context, I come to art almost as a reflex, I guess when the uncomfortable feelings come up.

[00:06:42]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. That's such a great way to think about it because it removes the judgment from it. It's simply, it is comfortable or it isn't comfortable. And yeah, that gives you a lot more permission to explore that without a judgment.

[00:06:59] Lantz McDonald: Exactly. It gives you freedom. And that, I mean, what isn't in relation to art than freedom?

[00:07:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Exactly. Awesome. Well, as far as your paintings go, I personally have gotten to see some and I think they're really cool, but is there any sort of theme that kind of has run through? 'Cause I remember there were a few that seemed like they were connected, you know, different artworks, but kind of maybe within the same general theme or landscape per se or whatever. Do you tend to work in like sets or is it just whatever strikes you?

[00:07:37] Lantz McDonald: It's definitely whatever strikes me. I have a hard leaning towards the abstracts with canvas painting. I guess I haven't practiced that much in a long time at realistic artwork in that regard. But, I do like the abstract, just because more of the, like, being able to, have somebody feel something. I think it's a lot easier to have that happen with something that is more abstract rather than something that is more focused and trying to tell you something specific. I think the more you're able to read into it yourself and make your own ideas about it and draw your own conclusions and feel your own feelings towards it. I think it allows people to have either a more enjoyable experience with art or, have a more meaningful experience with art.

[00:08:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Well, and we'll circle back to that because that, as you know, as a podcast listener, ties into one of my questions at the end. But, so when you go and experience art, do you particularly prefer to experience it for yourself without a whole lot of context? Do you like more abstract art personally?

[00:08:51] Lantz McDonald: I think visually I do prefer the abstracts, but outside of that, I don't really have a preference. I think it's definitely dependent on mood, and a million other factors for me personally. But, I think whatever someone's trying to say, whether they're letting you in with some notes or not, whether, you know, the title of the painting or if it's abstract or not. I think that's for the artist to decide. So I think I prefer just visually the feeling I get from looking at abstract art, but you can have just as much of a connection with something that, it tells you exactly what's going on.

[00:09:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Yeah, that makes complete sense. So are there any stories that stand out to you as far as having--either your own experience with creating art or seeing somebody else's art--that particularly stand out in your memory as being just something to hold on to?

[00:09:54]Lantz McDonald: Yeah. I guess with canvas painting again-- so just a bit of context, and to come back to what we were talking about earlier-- so I grew up in a very conservative home and we went to essentially a megachurch on a regular basis. And my dad was Minister of Music. My brother was very musically inclined. My mom sang in the choir. So, to comment on my complicated relationship with music, at the time I had no idea that there was other kinds of music. Like the radio existed, but it wasn't something that we turned on very often. And, so I just kind of assumed that this was a majority of what music had to provide. And even at a young age, I didn't feel like the music, and really the church as a whole, followed the same kind of beliefs that I had. So it really didn't have a huge impact on me. But then, you know, after discovering, you know, there's more out there, there's more of the world, I fell in love with music. And to tie that into my canvas painting, I had just decided one day that I just wanted to start. Like, I have friends who, painted and I had seen plenty of art throughout my life and, and I just kind of came to the conclusion that maybe I can try this. And, so I did. And, it didn't go well, from my perspective. I drew just a bunch of nonsense and painted just random shapes. And I was just kinda, I guess, trying to figure out what I did know myself and what I could do myself from a jumping off point.

[00:11:36]But, what really got me to open up, and at the time I was very emotionally clogged up, if you will. I had a lot of issues trying to reach my emotions, just trying to, over the years, keep them in. And yeah, the music was what kind of enabled me to start painting in the first place. 'Cause I tried a bunch of different things like meditation and nothing really seemed to let me express myself on the canvas. And, as soon as I put on some music that just kinda matched the mood that I was in, it was just like a light switch, and I just went off. And so most of my paintings are named after songs, because they are an album or an artist or a specific song that I was listening to while painting it. And it's what I feel as I'm experiencing that. So yeah, that's a really good memory for me. Just having this  growth of a relationship with music and having it affect other facets of creative expression.

[00:12:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. And I think that that's so interesting and so cool how one art form has inspired another one for you. And it was discovering that that kind of led to you being able to express your creativity through painting. But it was, you know, driven by another art form, which I think is really, really cool. Art begets art, you know, so to speak and...

[00:13:15] Lantz McDonald: Isn't that fantastic?

[00:13:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, it's so fantastic! And I love the fact that your titles are named after those songs, and that's what inspires you. I think that's really, really cool. I love it. So, are there any pieces that you've created or painted or whatever that really stand out to you as being some of your favorites? I mean, how do you have this image of something that comes back to you where you go "I like that one. I'm really proud of that."

[00:13:43]Lantz McDonald: Yeah. And just to put it out there, I have verified with friends that it's not egotistical to hang around paintings in your house, but I did that, 'cause I just, I like them. I don't think I've painted something, from start to finish, outside of doodles and stuff that I really absolutely was just disgusted with or anything. Most of the stuff that I have hung up are pieces of mine. There is one, honestly-- at this moment, I can't remember what it's called or what I called it--but, there was one where, and I'm pretty sure you've seen it, has like a black background, and there's just these strings of different colors falling down and up on the canvas. And, at this moment, I can't remember what song it was that I listened to, but it's just, looking at it, it's it's one of my favorites. I really like contrast and that has definitely has a lot of contrast there.

[00:14:42]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And I absolutely agree if you, if you like your own artwork, you should definitely display it and be proud of it. That's fantastic.

[00:14:52] Lantz McDonald: For anybody listening, you know, if you like something just, just like it, there's no reason to take other people into consideration.

[00:15:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Very true. And also the reality is I wouldn't have known that you painted if I didn't see them in your house, you know, I wouldn't have necessarily known that. And, and then I was able to ask you about it and discover a little bit more: where did that one come from? Or, or whatever. And so, yeah, it opens up good conversations, so, yes.

[00:15:25] Lantz McDonald: Yeah.

[00:15:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. So do you find yourself dabbling much these days? I know this is a very challenging time of life for probably everyone.

[00:15:39]Lantz McDonald: Everyone, of course. Not much at the moment. I don't know if you really call working on a house art, but I'm doing some more renovations right now, and taking care of my dog who's getting up there in age.  I just listened to the episode with Kent Rader. And he, he's delightful, by the way. I'm so glad you had him on the show.

[00:16:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, me too.

[00:16:04]Lantz McDonald: But,  something that's always been on the back burner, I guess in my brain, has been a stand up. And I have some notes and some just random thoughts written down, and that's, that's about as far as it's gone so far, but it's definitely something I'd like to look into once we're allowed to be within a few feet of each other and compact areas.

[00:16:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That would be amazing. Oh, I definitely think that that would be--you would be very good at that. I can tell.

[00:16:38] Lantz McDonald: Thank you. I don't have a singer's voice and it's not something I've ever really worked on, but I do like the different facets of art and the fact that it can be your voice or your hands or your feet, but I want to dive into something that has to do with spoken word or voice and see what I can learn from that.

[00:17:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, yeah. And you mentioned earlier the fact that you are kind of a lifetime learner, you like to continue to develop your skills. And so, yeah, that's just another skillset that is really good, and I would think very difficult to develop just because it's not even just speaking, it's trying to make people laugh, which is all whole thing. It's all, it's an art form. It really is.

[00:17:27] Lantz McDonald: I do like to speak on Kent Rader again, I do like his methodical execution of it, though. I think it is something that can be maybe not scientifically quantified, but there is like an equation to it, I think. And it's something that you can continuously work on. So yeah, I will see, I'll get back to you in the future when we're all happy and healthy.

[00:17:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. I love it. Well, I do have a couple of questions I like to ask my guests if you're okay with that.

[00:17:57] Lantz McDonald: Of course.

[00:17:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?

[00:18:06]Lantz McDonald: To me, I tried to break it down to the simplest terms that I can, 'cause I had thought about this a little bit before we started recording. I would say it's, to me it's an ambiguous expression. And some, some pieces of art are more or less ambiguous, but at the end of the day, you were trying to relay an emotion and there's nothing unambiguous about that. Yeah, I think it's just people trying to express themselves to other people. We all want to be heard and listened to. And this is just one more way to do that.

[00:18:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I like that. Okay. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?

[00:18:51]Lantz McDonald:    I think honesty is probably the highest up there for me.  I think that with a lot of art that is deemed not great or not good, it often has to do with the amount of honesty being portrayed. And if your sole focus is to just make a dollar or trying to, you know, slam an idea in somebody's face, it's not going to come off as well as if you're pulling from your heart and expressing yourself with honesty. There's, there's satire and stuff like that, but at its core, it still has an honest or a truth to it. And I think quality of art is very dependent on that truth-telling. So I'd say for anyone who's wanting to be an artist or who is an artist--let's face it, we all are at some extent-- just be honest with yourself and you will absolutely make something great.

[00:19:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, indeed you will. Okay. And then my final question is, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive. And it does sort of tie into something we were talking about earlier, but inclusive referring to somebody who creates their art and provides a little bit of context, whether that's a title or story or some background...

[00:20:17] Lantz McDonald: Yeah.

[00:20:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Versus exclusive referring to someone creating the artwork and just letting the viewer or the participant or whatever take from it, what they will. So they don't necessarily provide any context.

[00:20:30] Lantz McDonald: Yeah. I would say it is an even split for me, down the middle. I think choosing, 'cause it is a choice, it, that is a spectrum in and of itself. You still have to choose where on that spectrum you land as far as, you know, letting people in on what's going on or not. I think that is an important piece to the art itself to like choosing whether to give the whole story or even a part of it is part of what someone will experience when they experience your art. And,  it's really up to the artist whether they want to let you in on more or not. And that kind of informs the piece itself.

[00:21:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Excellent. Well, thank you again so much, Lantz, for being here today. That was so much fun. Plus, you have so many great insights and I just love it. But I was wondering if there's any way for people to follow along with your journey or do you have any sort of public outlet yet? Or is it just sort of, for you right now and not necessarily for others?

[00:21:39]Lantz McDonald: I am not on social media, like not even a little bit, so I'm a little hard to find, but if I can plug one of my favorite local artists here in case. Her name is Behnaz Miremadi. I hope I'm pronouncing her last name right, but it's spelled a, B E H N A Z. And then her last name is M I R E M A D I and she is a wonderful artist. She does realism and abstract and actually I have one of her pieces hanging up right here. So you should go check her out.

[00:22:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yes. Okay. Absolutely. We will, and we'll post a couple links to some of her work too. That's great. Well, I'm personally excited for the future for you. I'm very excited about the fact that you might do some standup comedy. I'm totally going to be there for that. But again, thank you so very much for joining us today. I really appreciate it. And I'm so glad that, yeah, that you've found, a great outlet for your art and that you're expressing it. And whether that's just for you and it's just going to continue to be for you in your house ,or whether you'll share it or whatever happens, I think it's still so valuable.  And so thank you for creating. I think that's awesome.

[00:23:01] Lantz McDonald: Thank you. And thank you for doing this podcast. I've, I've learned so much about different people I never would have met. And that's really, that's a huge part of this podcast for me. That was the part that I really enjoy is we're not just learning about these people, we're getting to know them too. I don't know, I have a lot of great names that I've been looking into and looking at other people's work and it's, it's really fantastic. So thank you for making this podcast. It's, it's wonderful.

[00:23:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, of course. Yes. It's been my absolute pleasure to get to talk to so many cool people and learn about their journeys and hear their stories and yeah. I love it. All right. Well, thank you all also for listening. And if you are feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love if you would share this episode with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.

[00:23:52] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

[00:24:01]Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you about Audible. As a podcast listener yourself, you already know how great it is to listen to something while you're driving or doing dishes or whatever it is. Audible has thousands of titles of audio books, as well as podcasts and other cool things. And they're offering a free audio book to Artfully Told listeners when you sign up for a free trial membership! You'll have 30 days to decide if Audible is right for you, and you can cancel at any time without being charged and still keep your free audio book. Sign up for your free trial and audiobook at www.audibletrial.com/artfullytold. Again, that's www.audibletrial.com/ArtfullyTold. Thanks, Artfully Told listeners!