We sat down with Theodoros Rousopoulos, the President of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, the continent’s oldest political body. The assembly, also known as PACE, is sometimes called the driving force of the whole organisation, bringing together parliamentary delegations from 46 member states. But is this parliamentary diplomacy successful in pushing back against the democratic backsliding that is evident within the Council of Europe itself? And what instruments does PACE have to deal with members that do not uphold the core values of human rights, democratic norms and the rule of law? 

Rousopoulos is clearly worried about the rise of populism and authoritarianism, and the attitudes of young people especially. “There is a recent survey which gives us this worrying information that Generation Z does not trust democracy anymore. And it is about 32 percent of Generation Z people in Europe, and about 52 percent in the UK, that believe that the prime minister should not give a damn about parliament. So this is very worrying. The problem is that politicians are keen on flattering the people. They try to be very close to the people in the wrong way. We have to speak the truth to the people. We have to say less during our pre-election periods, and then maybe we will gain the credibility that it is now lost for at least 10 or 20 years.” 

Rousopoulos sees democratic backsliding within the Council of Europe itself. He cites Azerbaijan and Georgia as examples. “In January 2024, the Parliamentary Assembly decided that we are going to challenge the credentials of the Azeri delegation,” he recounts. “That means that we put a strict rule there and we said, if you don't change your behaviour, if you do not release political prisoners, as President Aliyev is doing, then you cannot belong to this assembly. For Georgia, we decided to ratify their credentials. But they didn't like the idea that we asked them to do more. And the prime minister, Mr. Kobakhidze, decided not to attend the assembly. And he said, ‘we don't care about the assembly.’ This is the most dangerous part, because if member states are being allowed to do what I call cherry-picking – staying in the committee of ministers, but not in the assembly – then the next step is that they will not follow the decisions taken by the European Court of Human Rights.” 

“We need to reconsider, because populism is prevailing,” Rousopoulos sums up. “We have authoritarian regimes as member states of the Council of Europe, who believe that they can do everything.” 

We touch on the immigration debate in the UK, and how that impacts calls for the UK to leave the European Convention on Human Rights. “If we take the cases which have been examined by the European Court of Human Rights, we will see that it is a small percentage – 5 percent, no more than 10 percent – of situations which are related to immigration issues,” Rousopoulos notes. “I understand that there are some (political) problems caused by the decisions taken by the court. But on the other hand, if we do not respect the court's decision, then what is the message that we give to judges in the UK? If a government or an opposition says that we do not respect the decisions taken in Strasbourg, then how can they persuade the people to respect the decisions taken in their own courts?” 

We discuss other specific countries and situations, including Ukraine, and the steps towards the setting up of an international tribunal that the Council of Europe is supporting. “The Claims Commission is the latest decision that we have taken,” Rousopoulos says. “We have, of course, the Registry of Damages.  More than 15,000 people or organisations have appealed to this registry damage list. Now we have the Claims Commission, which is a new treaty which will be decided soon in our assembly. And this follows and complements the registry of damages. The next step is to ask for the money. Will that be from the frozen assets of Russians in Europe? Or another way? We will see. But it is very important to build the basis for the next step.” 

Programme prepared by Oihana Almandoz, Agnès le Cossec, Isabelle Romero, Perrine Desplats