Be It Till You See It

Where are our basketball players out there? Maybe not just basketball, but any of my sport fans that know the lessons learned on the court or field. Recapping an amazing episode with WNBA player, Amy Denson, LLa and Brad discuss the lessons of determination, acknowledging what your body is telling you and being brave enough to begin without being the expert. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Cambodia Retreat doors are open!
• A WNBA player journey to her next step
• A hiring tip for employers
• Optimal health shouldn't be a dream
• Your body is communicating to you 
• What it means to identify and get over fear

Episode References/Links:

• Retreat Info
• Recording Materials

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the empathetic convo I had with Amy Denson in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that episode, feel free to pause this now and go back and listen to that one. You will definitely laugh, we definitely talked about a colon sitting on a couch watching Netflix.

Brad Crowell 1:03  

Pretty sure poop came into the conversation like three times. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 1:06  

Everybody poops. (Lesley and Brad laughs) Well, anyways, this is a really important topic for me. And I think more and more people should talk about it. (Brad: Not the topic of poop.) No, but digestion. (Brad: Oh) Thanks for being more specific. (Brad: clarifying) Thanks for, that's why you're here. (Brad: Got you covered.) So, but I do think if especially for women, the more we talk about different things going on our health, the the more easily accessible results and support are for that. So, so I think when we keep it to ourselves, we end up suffering in silence for a really long time. And you don't realize that people around you suffer from the same thing or something similar and can have connections and support for you. So anyways, go back and listen to that one. And then come back here and join us and listen to, how we want to talk about it. (Brad: Yeah) (Brad and Lesley laughs) So because that's what this ...

Brad Crowell 1:58  

So, it really matters. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah, you know.

Lesley Logan 2:00  

... hear our opinion of our own podcast. (Brad: That's so funny.) Anyway, so we announced this last week if you are on the waitlist, and or on our email list at all, and that is that the Cambodia Retreat is up for sign up.

Brad Crowell 2:17  

Yes, it is. I am really, really fired up. We only have 20 spots and ...

Lesley Logan 2:23  

Well at the time we open it up, at the time you're listening to this, we could have no spots. (Brad: Oh, yeah that's true.) ... you could have 5 spots.

Brad Crowell 2:28  

It could be sold out. I don't think so. (Lesley: Yeah.) But but just hit us up, go to lesleylogan.co/retreat. And, you know, you'll you'll be able to check the whole thing out. I know you all heard us talk about Cambodia 100 times. So ...

Lesley Logan 2:43  

But maybe this is your first episode and welcome.

Brad Crowell 2:45  

Oh, okay, then really, really briefly. We have been going to Cambodia for many years, taking groups there for many years, we actually have our own place there. And if you were listening earlier this year, I just spent a month in Cambodia with Lesley's Dad. Basically, had been two years since we've been there because of COVID. And I got together with our team there. And we did some major construction stuff, which was super, super amazing. And now the place looks even cooler. And I can't wait to come back with you as a guest (Lesley: Yeah) to join us. We're going to take you through the Temples of Angkor, we're going to take you through some workouts, some meditation, some breathwork, you're going to eat some cuisine, is going to be an incredible experience. (Lesley: Yeah) Trust me if you've ever wanted to go to the jungles and see the Temples of Angkor and if that was on your bucket list, you need to join us.

Lesley Logan 3:40  

Come with us. Come with us. So get all the details at lesleylogan.co/retreat. Oh my God, I can't I cannot even wait. We we are literally going to be leaving a conference early here in Vegas so that I can go early because I'm super jealous that Brad got to be there for as long as he did. And I just want to see all of our friends and and also like there's just some things that you can like massage and ...

Brad Crowell 4:03  

And meet the girl that we're sponsoring.

Lesley Logan 4:05  

I know. Well, I've met her. But I also ...

Brad Crowell 4:07  

Oh, you have met her in person. Twice, three times. (Lesley: Yeah. So ...) But like get to know her.

Lesley Logan 4:13  

I make it to know her more, which is really fun. Because we'll we'll get to that in. But also, there's some things that we do with retreaters that I will partake in the week before as well which is daily massages. (Brad: Oh, yeah.) And they wash your hair like, like better than like the head massaging that happens when you get your hair washed there is just phenomenal.

Brad Crowell 4:35  

Pretty amazing.

Lesley Logan 4:35  

So I really, I can't wait. And then ...

Brad Crowell 4:39  

I can vouch for that because I've also taken, a partaken.

Lesley Logan 4:42  

And then the coffee and then the coffee. (Brad: Yeah) Our friends at the Little Red Fox. I'm so excited to see them. So anyways,

It's like that one time I showed up on on Saturday morning to get some coffee. And you were hanging with everybody, (Lesley: Oh yeah, you caught me.) drinking. (Lesley laughs) (Lesley: Well ...) Drinking a Gimlet. (Brad laughs) (Lesley: It was, it was ...) I was like, "What coffee is this?"

It was like Gamlet with coffee. Anyways, he was supposed to be doing other things. And I was entertaining retreaters, who arrived way early. So it was part of, it was part of the concierge service that I was providing.

Brad Crowell 5:20  

Well, all right, so this week, we had a great question. The technical, technical question. (Lesley: Oh, yeah.) And the question is, "What microphone do you use when you're filming your OPC classes?"

Lesley Logan 5:37  

Yeah, I get this question a lot. And I'll just tell you, neither Brad, or I actually remember the exact name of the microphone, but we are so freakin organized and amazing. (Brad: Oh you know what?) No, no, where's so, we'll think we're so organized and amazing. We have it in a PDF for you.

Brad Crowell 5:52  

Okay. We'll just came through my head. I'm not gonna say it now.

Lesley Logan 5:55  

Yeah, no, not just and not and so it's better than this because the mic we use is great for me, but it might not be great for you and what you're doing and so in this PDF guide that we made, because we get this question so much including our lighting, including, like there's like I don't know a bunch of other things in there. If you go to profitablepilates.com/livestream, so profitablepilates.com/livestream it has all of our tips on filming and recording for videos. And it also has the connection to our our audio guy who got us that mic and that is not the first mic that I've used as the third or fourth like that I've used. I kind of go through mics because well unfortunately, mics are built to be perfectly great if you are dancing around or sitting still but not if you're rolling around on the wire which I do like 15 hours at least a month and (Brad: Yeah) then times by 12 so I pretty much wear them out but um but they're great quality and the audio is amazing so profitablepilates.com/livestream will get you the answer to that question and all your recording questions that you've ever had for me on that. So ...

Brad Crowell 7:04  

Yeah, that we cover all this stuff. Like basically it's a snapshot of all of the equipment that we (Lesley: Yeah) use all around her when she's working out.

Lesley Logan 7:13  

Yeah, it's super, super thorough. So thanks for the question. You can send your questions and honestly, they can be anything. Like literally you can ask anything, personal, business, Pilates, just tag a, DM the @be_it_pod or ask it in a comment for the next podcast so we can get to it. And we'll answer your question here. Okay, I think it's time that we talked about Amy.

Brad Crowell 7:35  

Yeah, like hello.

Lesley Logan 7:36  

Hello! She is waiting to hear we have to say about her.

Brad Crowell 7:40  

Let's talk about Amy Denson.

Lesley Logan 7:42  

Can you image if every single guest is just like, "Are these people ever gonna talk about me?" (Brad: Yeah) (Lesley laughs)

Brad Crowell 7:47  

Amy Denson is a professional basketball player who went from battling professional fatigue and to autoimmune diseases to now being certified as a Nutritional Therapy Practitioner, specializing in thyroid health. Amy Denson is on a mission to help other women not feel alone and is and to instill empathy into the medical care system. (Lesley: Yeah) And that is quite a, quite a mission. It was really inspiring to first off, how cool that she played for eight years (Lesley: Oh, my God.) internationally. You know professional basketball player.

Lesley Logan 8:26  

Okay. I'm just gonna say, as we hit unrecorded, hit the non record button. I asked her all of the WNBA questions I have. (Lesley laughs) I was like, "Okay, let's talk about, what about this?" Because, you know, the episode was not about the WNBA. But I was like I have someone who's an insider, I need my questions answered. (Brad and Lesley laughs)

Brad Crowell 8:47  

It was a lot of fun to listen to her talk about that. And Poland and I think she said Spain, now I'm drawing a blank. But she she basically got a chance to bop around doing basketball. And then I thought, "What the hell when she came back home and nobody would hire her?" (Lesley: I know.) That blows my mind. Like ...

Lesley Logan 9:10  

Can you imagine if we had, watch now someone is gonna apply, but like if somebody told me professional athlete who has been a leader on teams, whose done all the stuff and they want to be on like my team and be like, (Brad: Sign her up.) Yeah, you can you know what, I'm not doing really good job. You can be the team...

Brad Crowell 9:26  

Well, I find it so unimaginative (Lesley: Yeah) for people to look at a resume of someone saying, "I've been a professional basketball player" and be like, "You're not qualified." You know, like, and I know that there's contexts of course, but like the amount of tenacity determination, like, like you have to, you are the ultimate fighting machine to be able to make it to a level like that.

Lesley Logan 9:35  

Well and also clearly dedicated because (Brad: Yeah) you have to, like you have to show up every day and do the workouts whether or not there's a game. Like it just this happened to me when I was, when I was in corporate and I and I ran stores like I would see something a skill set someone had from something else and they go, "Oh, but they've never actually sold before." I'm like, "Ah, this right here tells me that they've been selling themselves (Brad: the whole time) the whole time." (Brad: Yeah) Like people if you are bosses, hire for the personality, you can train the skill, hire for attitude, (Brad: Yeah) you can train the skill ...

Brad Crowell 10:24  

Well, and I'm not I'm not to diminish the the achievements of a professional basketball player. But when comparably in a in a small way, running a retail store like you did and then transitioning into fitness. (Lesley: Yeah) You were using all the skills you learned in retail to sell your fitness like slots. (Lesley: Yeah) "Okay, I've got open room for a private session. Who wants it?" Right. And so like those se... like that, that's where I feel like it's unimaginative. (Lesley: Right) Like look at like, everything they had to go through to get to where they did, you don't think that they can apply any of that stuff to like, I don't know anything else, like insane to me.

Lesley Logan 11:07  

It is, yeah. It's Amy's like ...

Brad Crowell 11:11  

She's like preaching to the choir, bro. (Lesley: Yeah) Preaching to the choir.

Lesley Logan 11:13  

We are, we are. But, but if you are listening to this, and you are all in the power of hiring anybody for anything, can I just give you a little? You did not ask for this advice, and I'm giving it to you anyway. (Brad laughs) And we charge a lot for this shit. But the reality like, you have to hire for the attitude you want on your team. Not that they're like typing some extra words a minute, and they've done the job. You're hiring them for 1000 times. In fact, I often think those are the worst people because they're like, "This is how I always do it. This is how it's always done." (Brad: Yeah) Like, (Brad: Yeah) anyways, okay, well, I'm so glad she like went through this journey, because she wouldn't be who she is today if that didn't happen to her. So one thing that I loved, let's just get to like her actual words. Should we talked a little bit about she brought up like start teaching sharing before you become an expert. And I, you know, I think this is really I mean, like, hello, it's be it till you see it. But it's, I think a lot of people get they, there, they can, first of all, you're comparing yourself to like the experts you follow. And the experts you follow are often probably someone you've heard on Oprah. (Brad: Yeah) Or like, some are Good Morning America, or whatever your Today show version is in your country. And so you're like, well, they've been doing this for 30 years, and I just did this one training. So I'm just gonna sit here and be quiet about it. And it's like, the people that are around you that you could be helping. They don't even often. I met people who don't know who Tony Robbins is.

Brad Crowell 12:34  

I was literally just thinking about him. He's kind of the pinnacle example of this, like, try to compare your, you know, baby career to somebody like Tony Robbins is is like overwhelming.

Lesley Logan 12:45  

Yeah. But you know, a lot of people don't know who he is, and or a second, they couldn't afford to hire him. (Brad: No) Or maybe they don't feel deserving of it, whatever. (Brad: Sure) He's not to knock you and say that, like they deserve a lower level, but like to say, a lot of people would prefer ...

Brad Crowell 12:59  

Oh, it is a mindset thing.

Lesley Logan 13:01  

Yeah. And they would prefer to hire or work with someone who is someone that they can relate to, someone that feels attainable, (Brad: Sure) and you're they can't even hire you or work with you. Because you're busy went, "Oh, I don't have 30 years." How do you think you're gonna get 30 years? You think? Where do you think that 30 years comes from? So I just I really love this and you can hear our conversation about like, we talk about comparison, things like that.

Brad Crowell 13:24  

Well, I I really, I thought it was really helpful when you were talking about having received advice from someone who's done a thousand podcast episodes. Right? We're at we're at a little over 100 here. And you you were like, Yeah, I got this advice for someone who has thousand and it was like, that's insane, a thousand episodes, that's if that's even only one per day. That's still two and a half years of doing one a day or yeah, (Lesley: Yeah) almost three years... (Lesley: And that's no breaks.) Yeah. And, and and that that is like a mountain to climb. Right.

Lesley Logan 14:00  

I think that's like more than three years. That like 300 or something days in a year, it might be closer to three years. 

Brad Crowell 14:04  

Yeah, it's three years. Okay. So but basically, that's like a mountain to climb. Right? That seems like, insurmountable. And, and then you said, which the advice is probably still perfectly sound and really helpful and obviously inspiring, but it comes to someone where you're like, "Whoa, when, am I ever gonna make it to that point?" As opposed to you said, "I just got off the call with someone who has about 300 episodes." And somehow probably similar advice. That seemed a lot more attainable. (Lesley: Yeah, yeah.) That's when you two started to talk about, you only need to be one step ahead of the people that you're teaching, training, coaching, you know, (Lesley: Yeah) really.

Lesley Logan 14:45  

Well and you want to know something? I just told this story to someone the other day, I don't know who I was talking to. But I was sharing that my first clients, I was already teaching Mat Pilates for over a year and then and then this teacher at the studio, she I just started my teacher training on the, the equipment. And so I was like two months in, and she was like, "Hey, I can't teach these people anymore. Can you teach them?" And I like asked the studio owner, if that'd be okay. She's like, "You're, they're beginners, you're just gonna teach them what you just learned." (Brad: Right) And I'm (Brad: the foundation) I have been doing they're beginners, they've been doing Pilates for years, like, trust me, they're beginners. And sure enough, because just what they weren't given permission to understand. They were, they were two, three steps behind me. And so I brought them along my journey. There, oh, I was coaching someone Agency. That's where I came up. And I brought them along my journey. And so eventually, I was learning more than their body could go, because, you know, it takes time for those connections to happen. But if I had waited, I wouldn't first of all, I wouldn't have had them as clients. And I had them for 12 years until the pandemic happened. And I wouldn't have had any of the referrals they sent me. So my entire business would have stalled over a year. If I was like, "Oh, I have to wait till I'm an expert." (Brad: Right) Like come on, no (Brad : Right) one is going to, no one is coming around. And like knighting you an expert, it's not happening.

Brad Crowell 15:29  

No, it is it is funny. I do understand that. You know, I don't think that anybody, I don't think that anybody dubbed me an expert to run a team inside of a company. (Lesley: No) It wasn't like, like, "Congratulations, here's your, you know, certificate, you pass them the mile marker line, you know, now you get to go do it." It just kind of happened innately. And, and, you know, organically because I don't know, because I had already, I guess really it did come down to like the vision. And then the understanding of like putting the puzzle pieces together so that people could do step one through whatever, and directing traffic, but (Lesley: And you ...) had I had I waited? I never would have become anybody in in the company, I just would have been behind my desk the whole time.

Lesley Logan 16:04  

Right. Because how do you think like, how are you supposed to learn that you don't go to college to learn that they that's not happening. (Brad: No, no) So anyways, I to all of you, whatever it is that you're dreaming of doing? You are start now, start don't wait until you're an expert. I'm not saying like go perform surgery if you haven't gone to medical school yet, but like you know, (Brad: Well, don't do that.) see yourself in the story. See yourself in the story. And without being doing anything illegal. (Brad: Yeah) Get out there and start helping people.

Brad Crowell 17:29  

Yeah. Well, one thing I really loved about your conversation was that she talked about your optimal health shouldn't be a dream. Right. And one thing is particularly poignant that I thought she said was, "Oh, well, you know, my mom always had a really hard cycle. So the first couple days were like, super painful for her. So I must also have a really hard cycle. And this must just be normal for me." (Lesley: Yeah.) Right. And it's like this. It's a strange story that I not only, you know, women dealing with their cycle, tell themselves but me, Brad, like, I've also told myself the same exact story, "Oh, my mom always had gut issues. So I must have gut issues." It's just in the family. "My mom's really bendy. So I must be really bendy." It just in the family, it's genetic. I don't know, we make this up. Like I just think, I don't actually know. Right?

Lesley Logan 18:26  

I'm just because that's true. Just because maybe it is but that doesn't mean that you can't have optimal health. Like ...

Brad Crowell 18:31  

It also doesn't mean that there isn't a solution. (Lesley: Correct) Maybe your parents literally didn't know how to figure out the solution. Or maybe medicine wasn't approaching it or being approachable. Who knows? Like we all have heard a lot about your story of 10 years figuring out gut health and it wasn't until you found the right doctor. (Lesley: Yeah) That things actually began to change. And you know, maybe when my my mom was growing up, there wasn't a you know, (Lesley: Yeah) gastro doctor that put the pieces together. (Lesley: Yeah) I don't know.

Lesley Logan 19:01  

Well, so what's really, what this is like serendipitous. It's very interesting. But one of my, one of our dear friends, she has been complaining of some aches and pains in our body for a while. And, and like, honestly, they don't make sense together. But like, it started with her hip and this or with her lower back, and she's like, "Well, maybe it's because I fell." But she's really strong person. And so I fall all the time, it doesn't mean I'm like, have this like lingering thing going on. Anyways, she got to the point where it's like, unbearable. And she did some research. She did the thing. She was able to get a surgery, the surgery date was not optimal. And she was like, "Maybe I should wait on this." And I was like, "I wouldn't, but it's, you know, it's your journey." And we're, like, at the time that we're recording this. She has two weeks out, and she's like, "Lesley, she's like, they told me it would take six months to feel all of the differences." She's like, "But I feel like I feel healed already." Like, I feel. (Brad: Wow) She's like, "I had no idea." She's like, how (Brad: How she could feel.) she could feel could feel like this? And she's like, "I can't believe I went as long as I did." (Brad: Yeah) Because I was just like, "Oh, well, maybe, maybe it's nothing. Maybe it's nothing." Y'all, if you've got something on your body stop trying to excuse it away. (Brad: Yes) Really truly like, yes, of course, like, we don't need you to be a hypochondriac to your doctor. But it also, you need to be an advocate for yourself. (Brad: Yeah) You're not meant to just like, "Oh, I guess I'm getting older."

Brad Crowell 20:29  

But I think that's the hard part, right? Because I think, you know, your conversations centered around the idea that your body is communicating to you in a in a, in a manner, which I find really funny because your body clearly can't, you know, talk to you. But it's, you know, like, an, it's not talking but it's giving you hints all the time. You know, like I know, and I've mentioned this before, I know when I'm past the point of I need to go to bed, because my nose starts running. (Lesley: Yeah) You know, and it's crazy. It's like when I'm exhausted, tired, like, my body's like, "Bro, you're done." Literally, nose starts running. And that's, you know, it took me years of abusing my sleep cycle to put those pieces together. But it's amazing that that happens. And I'm like, "Oh, God, yeah, okay. It's time." You know, and, but that's an extreme case, really, probably when I started yawning and getting bleary eyed is also signs from my body saying, "We're ready, dude." But I just kept pushing through, you know, and the same thing happens with, you know, your, your Amy, she she talks a lot about discomfort, even the idea of discomfort, which, like, you know, okay, we just got to brush those things aside, that is your body communicating to you. Burping, you know, gastrointestinal, anything, all that stuff, your body's talking to you. And she's she said, every day, your body's talking to you every single day. And being a professional athlete, she was particularly in tune with her body because she had to be for her job. But, you know, she talks about how most people just, you know, excuse (Lesley: Yeah) those things. And, oh this just must be how it is? And she's she would argue, no, that's not how it has to be.

Lesley Logan 22:16  

Yeah. So um, you know, we have, we actually have a course on Profitable Pilates about being an advocate. It's also to help other people be an advocate. But like, if you struggle with standing up for yourself at the doctor, I highly recommend it. (Brad: Yeah) If you have someone in your life that's going through something and you're helping them, I highly recommend it because there was our old assistant who created it. And that's what she does now. (Brad: Yeah.) In her little baby and her are like little lobbyist. It's really, really their frickin amazing.

Brad Crowell 22:42  

We'll, we'll put the link to that course in the show notes. (Lesley: Yeah) It is a really helpful course by someone who's very passionate on the subject. And,

Lesley Logan 22:51  

And she said to be on both sides of advocacies. So ...

Brad Crowell 22:54  

Yeah, she's gone through the experience.

Lesley Logan 22:55  

Yeah. So but you know, I'm just y'all please do not just go, "Oh, you know, I'll deal with that later." Like, it's really important. You would be sup... you'll be surprised my I can. My friend is like, she's like, Lesley. She's like, "I can't believe" like, her body looks different. And she likes she's like, "These are things that I've been." Like, even though I'm not suggesting everyone needs to lose any weight, but she's like, "Lesley, I lost six pounds of inflammation (Brad: Oh wow) in two weeks." She's like, "I was carrying that around." So this is not about like, losing weight. But like, that isn't weight, you should be carrying. Weight of inflammation is very different than like, the weight of your genetic body. (Brad: Right) And so like, and that stuff, is stuff that inflammation is not good on the rest of your organs. It does not, it's not supposed to be there. So anyways. (Brad: Wow.) Yeah. (Brad: Yeah, that's amazing.) Yeah, I'm excited for her. Okay. BE IT action items.

Brad Crowell 23:46  

Yeah. Let's talk about those bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items we could take away from your convo with Amy Denson.

Lesley Logan 23:54  

Well, she said, one amazing statement that we can get like and then there's a bunch of bullet points. So I'm gonna jump in because it's my show. (Lesley laughs) Identify and get over the fear of failure. Oh, okay, first of all, like right there that's like a friggin sign on our office wall.

Brad Crowell 24:13  

Okay, it is a sign in an office wall. It's also like, not exactly helpful. (Lesley: Right. So she ...) Right? Because I read that and I was like, "Okay." (Lesley: Yeah) But then she got super specific. (Lesley: Yeah. So ...) That was amazing.

Lesley Logan 24:28  

So get to know yourself. Pursue with intention and there is no failure. So pursue with intention and there is no failure. (Brad: Right) Open more doors in your life and creates momentum. Want to keep going?

Brad Crowell 24:41  

Yeah. Well, I was just want to talk about that pursue with intention and there is no failure. I really think she, her argument here is it's mindset. (Lesley: Right) Right. And because if you're pursuing with intention, even if you do come across literal failure, the fact that you're pursuing, means that you're, you're embracing growth, change, you know, finding the solution to whatever it is. And even when you fail, it's not true actual failure. Right? It's the pursuit.

Lesley Logan 25:13  

Yeah. And so I think like, you know, we talked about this a lot in other things. But so if you've heard me say it before, you need to hear it again, nothing ends up being the worst case scenario or the bet... like it's kind of in the middle. So like your failure that you're afraid of, probably won't be what ends up happening.

Brad Crowell 25:33  

Oh. The the tragedy that goes through our mind. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah, it's rarely that extreme.

Lesley Logan 25:38  

Yeah, it's, it's really rare. And you always end up learning something from it. And so you won't let that happen again, so you may as well just go through it. And she kept going. There's some other good ones, but like,

Brad Crowell 25:48  

Yeah, well, she, she said that pursuit opens more doors in your life, it creates momentum. (Lesley: Yeah) Right. And as you're being it till you see it, which is literally what she's talking about here. You're eventually going to get to that point where you are it. (Lesley: Yeah) Right. She said, look through, oh, look through the lens of pursuit instead of failure. That's the mindset thing. And then she said something, which I thought is so funny, because it's classic. She said, "It's about the journey. It's not about the outcome." (Lesley: Yeah) Right. And ...

Lesley Logan 26:18  

I know I need to glue that to my head, cuz I'm ...

Brad Crowell 26:21  

Yeah, let go of that failure and frame each of these steps as an opportunity.

Lesley Logan 26:26  

Yes, I know, these are all things that I'm like I cosign 100%. And then my own life currently, I'm like ... (Lesley laughs)

Brad Crowell 26:33  

Yeah. It's not easy when you're in it. (Lesley: Yeah, it's not... So ...) You know, like, I was thinking about her journey as a professional athlete, a basketball player, when, you know, imagine the coach being like, "Alright, team, I know, we totally lost. It got our asses handed to us, but it's about the journey, not the outcome." I'm sure everyone's like, "ahhh whatever."

Lesley Logan 26:53  

Actually, actually, speaking of basketball. UCLA famous coach, John Wooden, John Wooden. His ...

Brad Crowell 27:01  

Yeah, the Wizard of Westwood. It must be UCLA.

Lesley Logan 27:04  

Yeah. So John Wooden, he was notorious, if I understand correctly for not focusing on winning. He was focusing on how like ... how they practice and how they played always. (Brad: Yeah.) Oh, it was listening to this guy that he is my, that he is on my dream list. I'll get him on for you. But But basically, like, the best coach in like, our like, he was a coach, y'all for UCLA from 1940 to 75. Okay. (Brad: Yeah. That's crazy.) So he, and he has like 12, I think there's like National, 10 National Association, like 10 championships. 10. So just amazing person, but he he's notorious for not actually focusing on the winning and the scores. (Brad: Yeah) It was really focusing on how they played, how they played as a team. (Brad: Yeah) And so, of course, the basketball player would have to remind us that it is about going through the pursuit, as opposed to the outcome. So thank you, Amy, for reminding us (Brad: Yeah) that everything we need to know we could have learned a basketball.

Brad Crowell 28:05  

All right. Well,

Lesley Logan 28:06  

Thank you so much for being here. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 28:08  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 28:09  

How are you going to use these tips in your life? What are you going to do? What is your favorite takeaway? Tag us at the @be_it_pod, tag @coachamyrae and let us know. We cannot wait to hear from you. And remember, until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 28:21  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 28:24  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 28:57  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 29:08  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 29:12  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 29:21  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 29:33  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

You know your body. You know when something isn't quite right. Your symptoms have a cause and you shouldn’t accept comfortability. Join a conversation on recognizing discomfort and making a change with a certified nutritional practitioner and professional basketball player. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The support and lifestyle of women in professional basketball 
• Starting before being the expert
• Space and grace in the comparison game 
• Your optimal health shouldn't be a dream
• Identifying and getting over our fear of failure. 

Episode References/Links:

• Flo By Alisa Vitti
• IG @coachamyrae

Guest Bio:

Hello! I'm Amy, a retired professional athlete who was diagnosed with my 2nd autoimmune disorder in 2016. I went from playing professional basketball all over the world to battling professional fatigue and not recognizing myself in the mirror. From my rock bottom moment, I felt a nudge that told me there had to be a better way & I relied on my mindset built within my athletic career to pave the way to feeling like myself again--and even better! Currently, I'm certified as a Nutritional Therapy Practitioner (NTP), specializing in thyroid health, striving to support women in advocating for their health, getting their energy back, and feeling like themselves again

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Hey, Be It listener. What's up? Okay, so I just love, I love the way the world works. I love that how you can meet people and have conversations with people and learn something you never knew you'd have. And I don't think we do that enough. So if you are feeling stuck, if you are feeling alone, if you are feeling like uninspired. I want you to have a conversation with someone you don't know. I want you to ask them questions. So if you're like, "How do I do that? I'm so scared. I'm an introvert." Look at the local meetups, look at Eventbrite, look at like opportunities that are happening for a networking situation. And then you're gonna find someone who makes eye contact with you. And you're gonna smile at them. And then you're just going to ask them questions, you don't have to a... you don't have to say anything. You can just ask them questions like think 40 Old Virgin just like ask a question, if you don't know what to say ask a question. And the reason is, people do like to talk about themselves, but also going to learn something about somebody. And I think we underestimate how inspiring it can be to learn another person's story and what they're going through. And even if it maybe not inspiring, but maybe you feel seen, and feeling seen as something that we all truly, truly want. And so my next guest for you this week is Amy, Amy Denson, and I am really excited for you to hear her story. And I want you to listen to her story because maybe you don't have this story. Like maybe you weren't this like professional and NB like women's basketball player. I certainly wasn't. But as I listened to her story, I thought about my health story. And I thought about some of the health stories of people who have listened to the show and written in. And I truly think that a lot of times we think we're alone, and this is only happening to us. And I know for myself, when I started actually sharing my story about my stomach, I started of find out how many people had stomach issues. And I wish I had started talking about earlier, it was embarrassing. So I didn't want to but I wouldn't have felt alone. And so as you listen to today's interview, I really want you to hear her story and see yourself in it. And I, I really am excited for you to hear what she's up to, which is excited about next, how she got on this mission that she's on. And also, of course, you know, I love those BE IT action items that hers are really cool. And they're going to challenge you in the best ways. So after this message here, Amy.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right, Be It listeners I have a very special special guest Amy Denson here. Amy has an incredible story, I've be... I'm really excited for you to hear it because I think it's really easy to think, "Well, it must be easy for them. But I've got these things going on or I have this setback or this obstacle." And we can kind of let those obstacles become just like a reason to not do something. And Amy is certainly not letting that happen. So, I'm excited for you to be inspired by her and hear how she did it. So Amy, tell everyone who you are and how you got here.

Amy Denson 3:42  

Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here and to meet you. Um, so my story is, you know, it's all of ours probably could go on forever. But I grew up playing basketball and I always knew that in my heart. That was what I was supposed to do. And I you know, felt most in my skin and confident and as a pretty tall, broad shouldered, strong young woman who did not fit in in any other scene. Basketball was really home for me. I received a full ride scholarship to Arizona State University. We did some amazing things there. We created history there. We were the first team to make it into the Sweet 16 tournament of the NCAA tournament. (Lesley: Whoa! That's a insane journey.) Oh, yeah. So. Yeah, yes. And it was really cool because we had a really young team. So for the majority of my career, I got to play with the same people which is very, very special. (Lesley: That's incredible) Yeah, and then after I graduated, I just wasn't done and I signed with an agent and then I ended up playing overseas professionally for eight years. So I played in Puerto Rico for four seasons. I played in Australia for three years. I played in Poland, Romania and Spain. And so ...

Lesley Logan 5:04  

What a life? Like how (Amy: Yeah) cool. I so when we moved to Las Vegas there, I mean, LA had a WNBA team but I'm not going to downtown. So but the Las Vegas team is like (Amy: The Aces) ... Yeah, the Aces. (Amy: Yeah) It's a short stint down the street actually from (Amy: Yeah) where I live, like really close and my Dad and I would go we'd like, "Oh, hey, there's a game today. Let's go." And it was Brad came and it was so fun we get, we actually probably get the worst seats in the house. And most people think but like it's just the side of this of the of the basket. So it's like all the action is there the whole game (Amy: Yeah) and it's like, so fun. (Amy: That's so awesome.) Those women are amazing. I mean, (Amy: Yeah) as were you but like, it's kind of crazy. I don't think people realize that. (Amy: No) So many female basketball players spend most of their life playing for multiple teams at the same time and around the world. Like you're, they're not (Amy: Yeah) making NBA wages, which is really annoying.

Amy Denson 5:53  

No. And that's the thing. Yeah. And so really the WNBA I mean, it's, you know, still probably the best league in the world, but women make their money overseas. And so unless you know, do get some sponsorships here as well as your pay. You know, if you do have WNBA on your resume, you can make pretty decent money overseas and overseas is much different as far as like really even support wise for women. And I don't think that women, even young women in college, understand maybe they do more so now but when I was in college, how many opportunities there are to play at a next level? And yes, sometimes, I mean, there's just so many different options, maybe that just means you get paid, you know, a little bit extra, but you get your room and board and you know, a couple of meals, but you you're basically traveling for free, right, you're seeing the world for free. I was able to make a pretty decent wage. And I you know, really kind of moved up the ranks and played in some really amazing conferences against some really amazing athletes. And I think, you know, people may not like to, you know, I think put the women's game down quite a bit as far as pace and athleticism and all that kind of stuff. But I do think, I don't think people understand the amount of effort it takes to be professional edit anything. (Lesley: Yeah. No I don't think so.) Right. And then you add anything physical in there. And yeah, physical is a huge part of it. But the once you're at a professional level, it's the mental game, right? It's an emotional game. It's, it's a, you know, the battle to how do I, how do I beat my opponent? That's probably just as good or better than me, you know. So

Lesley Logan 7:27  

Right. That might, that you might end up being on the team with in another time.

Amy Denson 7:32  

Right. Yeah, so it was a beautiful experience. I actually, I really miss traveling, like to my core right now. I just I lived out of a suitcase and had a laptop for eight years. And it just was the most amazing experience. It was hard. And it was isolating at times, especially (Lesley: Yeah) with language barriers, but I got to get paid and travel in my gift for my gift. And so I was so blessed because I got to live out my first dream. (Lesley: Yeah.) And I don't know how many people can really, you know, say that when, as you're growing up, and it's just something that I always knew that I was going to do. And it was, there was no doubt or question in my mind.

Lesley Logan 8:12  

Yeah, I think that thank you for saying that. Because I do think a lot of people make sacrifices or they think, "Okay, I went to college, and I gotta do this, I gotta go be a grown up." And like, you know, you are one of the few people who's like, "You know, I'm gonna keep doing my passion." And, and yeah, it's not making you the money that's going to like, put a house on the ground or anything like that. But it did allow you to see the world and experience the highs and the lows from that. And so, you know, I cut you off in your story. Like, what made you leave? Did you just like injure out? Did you age out? Did you get (Amy: Yeah) tired of what was that? What was the next step?

Amy Denson 8:47  

I don't know why, but I always had it in my mind that I would probably retire by around age 30. And I was really, I was just kind of burnt out. I was really tired. I'd been playing year around for a long time. I just needed a break more so emotionally and mentally. And I also was getting into a serious relationship with my best friend who is my now my husband. And I just felt in my heart. It was time. (Lesley: Yeah.) And so when I came back to the United States, it was it was so hard because I hadn't lived here for eight years. I couldn't get a job. Nobody would look at my professional history as a job. So it looks like to them I had gra... unless they had a sports background. Like I'd graduated college and then I just showed back up when I was you know 30. (Lesley: That's so interesting.) Yeah, it was just ...

Lesley Logan 9:45  

I never would have thought about that. Like it would be so it's like your resume like doesn't start and so they're like, you have no experience except for that you (Amy: Right) like so much experience like what it takes to be (Amy: Right) on a team, what it takes to win a game like you know, like you're right unless they know sports, they don't see a talent, skill set there.

Amy Denson 10:00  

Yeah. And so there was like a major, major identity crisis. You know, I didn't really understand or know how to introduce myself without saying, "Hi, Amy, I'm played professional basketball." It was it was just everything, you know, it was my pride, it was my joy, it was everything. And so to now really kind of step back and, and not only not be acknowledged for that effort, but really have to start over not only like career wise, but for my for myself, like, who am I without basketball, (Lesley: Yeah) which was very hard, and I knew it was going to be hard to retire. But it did not know how hard it was gonna be. I didn't know, I didn't realize the grieving process I would have. (Lesley: Yeah.) And so I just kind of floated around, I got my personal training and certification so that well, this is obviously the next thing. I still want to be active. You know, I didn't know what to do. And ...

Lesley Logan 10:52  

But you know, what all I see is like, of course, like, who wouldn't want to train with like, I mean ...

Amy Denson 10:56  

Yeah, why not? I want to work out. Let's work out together, you know.

Lesley Logan 10:59  

Yeah. Who would want to train with a WNBA player or a women's (Amy: Yeah) basketball player? Like, I like that would be a great calling card. (Lesley laughs) (Amy: Yeah, exactly.) I mean, you'd have to want to do it. So how, so you went and got your training? (Amy: Yeah) And how did that go?

Amy Denson 11:11  

It went okay. It was just, it was just a hard time, it was a really hard time, it was a rough transition for a couple years, I ended up landing in a college coaching position for a small division one at college in Oregon. And I thought, "Well, duh, this is what I'm supposed to do, hello." And I actually, I loved it, I really think that it could have been a really good path for me, it's just again, for women's basketball, the money is nothing, which is not everything, but we've got to live (Lesley: We got a paying bills. Yeah) We gotta pay. And it's just, you know, it just, I wasn't in a very good working environment as far as with the other adults, unfortunately. And this is when I started to really experience some symptoms that I wasn't used to. So I only knew how to work out one way. If I was dealing with anything stress wise, you know, lifewise, for me working out with, you know, it's a much as a mental and emotional release as it is a physical, so I only knew how to work out one way, which is like, balls to the wall. Like, if you're not close to puking, and you push through the wall, all of these things that we had, like we did to (Lesley: Yeah) stay in shape, right. But I noticed like it wasn't really quote unquote, "working" like it used to, I noticed, like I was just so fatigued, I was really, really high stressed. I just felt like, emotionally a little out of control. And (Lesley: Yeah) I wasn't sure I don't know how to describe that I just did not feel like myself. And ...

Lesley Logan 12:45  

And I can resonate with that though, Amy because it's like, a you like you're already in a transition of some kind anyways, like your life as you knew it has changed. And you're, it's not like it was like easy to step back into the world. And so then you're like trying different careers out. And then also the way you train isn't working the way it used to. And also like, our bodies are getting older, like there is this weird thing because I was an athlete too. And then like, you hit 30 and you're like, "Wow, I can't do two a days anymore. Should I be doing two a days?" (Amy: Right) But like, I also don't know a different way. (Amy: Right) So, (Amy: Yeah) you know, you're kind of going, like, in, in your health and your workouts in every part of your life. Everything is different and out of control. So of course you're gonna feel stressed. (Amy: Yeah) And all these things, and it's hard to articulate when you're in it.

Amy Denson 13:31  

Absolutely. And so I started to go to a couple doctors for some help. And, you know, just kept getting the all, "Eat less and workout more," duh. (Lesley laughs) Cool. (Lesley: Okay thanks.) I just really felt like in my experience. You know, after seeing multiple doctors, I started to lose my hair. I started my hair was thinning. I just noticed all of these things. And I was like, "My God I just ..." I just feel off, right? I just feel off. I went I was just you know, as we do, I was like on Google and this and that. So I I read that a dermatologist could help with hair. So I went to a dermatologist who told me I was prematurely balding at 33 and I was like, "Are you sure? Like is like really?" And so I ended up going to an endocrinologist who one of the top and in the field for Oregon. And I had gone to the ER because I had I have nosebleeds or I had nosebleeds that I couldn't get stopped. So I had to go to the ER. And when I leaned back for them to, to basically cauterize my nose, I have two huge nodules on my neck and the guy was like, "Have you gotten those checked out?" And I said, "No, I didn't even know that they were there." So I went to this endocrinologist. We did an ultrasound and she's like, "Yep, you've got Hashimotos." And I was like, "Okay, what, what's Hashimotos?" And she's like, "Well, it's an autoimmune disorder where your body is attacking your thyroid tissue" because it thinks that there's a foreign invader, something's going on. I'm like, "Okay, well, does this explain, you know." Because a lot of times Hashimotos and hypothyroidism go hand in hand. "So does this explain me having cold hands and feet?" So poor circulation? "Does this explain me losing hair? Does this explain me gaining weight specifically around my midsection? Does this explain me feeling like I'm losing my GD mind?" She said, "Yeah." And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, great. So like, what do we do about it?" She goes, "Nothing. (Lesley: No) We wait, we wait until your body attacks your thyroid so much that it doesn't work anymore. And then we will start hormones."

Lesley Logan 15:31  

That is not an option. That is, so you just have to suffer?

Amy Denson 15:34  

And I think, I think it's really interesting because, you know, the way that I was raised to is like, well, she obviously knows more than me, right? Because she's a doctor. (Lesley: Yeah.) And so I walked away from that feeling, obviously very defeated. And also, the way that I approach things as an athlete is like, I'm going to control it as much as I possibly can. So what can I do? What can I do? Not knowing the things that I was doing, were probably escalating it. (Lesley: Yeah) Um, and so it was about two years later that I, we had some people over for Memorial Day, and I got incredibly sick. And I literally remember, like shutting the door that like saying our goodbyes, and as soon as I shut the door, I just started crying. And I just said, "I can't live the rest of my life like this. Something is wrong, something is off. And I need help." (Lesley: Yeah) And from that day forward, that has been my mission. And now that I have more information, because Hashimotos is my actual life, my second autoimmune disorder. And with thyroid related disorders, illnesses, whatever, it's so common, and there's just so much that goes into it. And a lot of it kind of goes against the grain of like our diet culture, workout culture, and all of that. So there's so much mental and emotional stuff that's tied up into that, you know, the two a days or the, you know, anyway, working out, eating less all of that. So, once I kind of started on my own health journey, I've now made it my mission to help other women not feel alone, and really to feel like themselves again, because I really think the biggest thing that's missing right now, in like, our standard medical care system is that we're just there's no empathy. I don't think we're even being heard. (Lesley: Yeah.) And of course, you know, I think a lot of times, which is okay, I'm not saying anything is wrong with medication, but I do think we have to also be aware of everything else that goes into the healing process, besides support for medication. (Lesley: Yeah) I have absolutely nothing against it, if it if it helps people, I am on it. But that's not the only thing that we can't just pop a pill and it be okay, we can't just pop a pill and not address our stress levels.

Lesley Logan 17:58  

You're... (Amy: You know) that's just it and like, I think, you know, some... one of my, my previous assistant was amazing. And she actually teaches people on how to be their own health advocate, or how to be an advocate for others. (Amy: Yes.) And I think we all like I'm sure, maybe generations younger than us, maybe they they are wise and all knowing that the doctors ... (Amy: Probably, they probably. Yeah) they're they come out knowing that no one knows what they're doing. (Amy: Yes) We, I grew up like the doctor knows they knew everything. (Amy: Well, yeah.) They went to school. They're the most educated person. (Amy: Absolutely.) And I had similar, like health issues where like, they literally like, "Well, you have IBS, so just, you know, eat like this, don't eat these things." I mean, those are very nutritional things. I think I'm probably supposed to eat those. You know, and I wasn't my own advocate, I probably wouldn't, I probably be dead right now, to be honest, because I was just like, suffering so much. And it was I my nutritional levels were so bad that I like had no B 12, no vitamin D, all these things. I think I would probably be divorced. And, and (Amy: Yeah) and a shell of a human. So I want to go back to something though, because you've made it this mission to like really help women who are going through this? Because you're going through this, I think the question is like, how do, how, what were the first steps or what the steps that you took to help other women go through something that you yourself, were still learning? Because I do think a lot of listeners get stuck in that they're like, "Well, I'm not the expert yet. So I can't do the thing that I'm feeling called to do." And you were like, "I'm being called do this." How did you do that? How did you kind of wrap your (Amy: Yeah) head around that?

Amy Denson 19:32  

Well, I think you know, it really started with obviously my own, getting my own ish together, and I don't have it together. But I do have a lot of knowledge around it. I do have a lot of knowledge around what works for me and what doesn't, which I feel like provides a lot of I don't know security, or when we feel out of control and we don't know what's causing what. It's like we just go down this rabbit hole of symptoms or what did I eat? What did I not eat? How did they move? What did I do different here? And that's all I used to do. And it was just so time consuming and energy sucking and defeating. So I think really, for me, the first step was, if anybody is out there, find some a doctor of some sort that's going to support you and has experience in whatever if you do know your diagnosis or don't know, I found a naturopath that it like changed my life, and I'm still with her today. I think that's your first step. I think me going on my own health journey, and then feeling a little bit better, always helps to like feel like I have capacity to help other people. (Lesley: Yeah) And I really think that the health journey is all it is, is a trial and error, I think we get so stuck in doing the right and wrong things. That it just, it's just like destabilizes us. And it's just trying this, see how this works. How does your body feel in this? Hey, if it doesn't feel good here, let's, let's tweak it and try try this and like just keep continuing to do that along the way with the intention of healing your body or with the intention of supporting your journey supporting your body in that. I think we just we've got to be a little bit more flexible in our thinking, and what we are willing to try it and not try or you know, really not get stuck and what diet worked for for your best friend. And it's not working for you now. I think we really get stuck in food specifically. (Lesley: Yeah.) Where I think that we don't always need to be, we don't need to always label how we eat as a diet. It's just how we eat. (Lesley: Yeah.) You don't need to be in a specific lane all the time. And I think that so, (Lesley: Yeah.) I would just say just being a couple steps ahead. Those couple steps make a really big difference for somebody else. And I (Lesley: Yeah.) always tell myself, "If I could help this person feel 10% better? How would their life improve?" Because when I was at my rock bottom, when I shut that door and said goodbye and started crying, I would have given anything to feel a little bit better. Or I would have given anything to have a little bit more knowledge around, "What the hell is going on with my body?"

Lesley Logan 22:13  

Yeah, um, I thank you for sharing that because I do I do believe like, people think that they have to be 15 steps ahead, the people that they're going to help. And it's like, you just have to be a couple steps ahead. Like, you know, because 15 steps ahead is like, you know, I know like, well, look like, well let's just talk about we're on a podcast, you're listening to this. Some of the people I look up to have like, a thousand episodes. I'm like, "That is overwhelming. That is like, yes, it's yes, inspiring. Yes, it's showing me the what's possible." But also like to think of it from, I don't know what episode this is going to be while we're recording it, but it's at least 100 and I don't know, eight. And, (Amy: Ah, that'a awesome.) you know, and so that that feels like a big gap. But I was just talking to somebody yesterday who has 300 episodes, and he was giving me some tips. And those felt very doable. He's only a few steps ahead of me, right. So I love that you share that. And I also think it's like not to underestimate like the power that you can help someone even if it's a couple percentage, you know, a little bit, (Amy: Yeah) and then you're because you're working on yourself, you're getting a couple more steps ahead. And so you're bringing (Amy: Right) everybody with you. (Amy: Right.) So thank you for sharing that. And I also think, you know, and I don't know, you'll have to tell me how long was for you. But I don't think a lot of people give the things that they're trying out enough time. (Amy: Absolutely not.) You know, like, Jenn Pike has been on our podcast before. She says, "When it comes to your hormones, it's 100 days. So the things we're doing, you're like, you don't get to even tell me anything for 100 days, like maybe you're gonna feel better right away. But the reality is, is like, it's going to take some time because the you know, like, the stuff we did has already affected what's happening right now."

Amy Denson 23:51  

Right? You know, it's taken us, you know, for a lot of clients or people that are around me, or that I work with, it's probably, you know, mid 30s, 40s. It's taken, we've been through a lot of shit by now. It's taken us a while to get here. And I don't think we realize just like you said, our habits and actions and everything. It's all led up to this. So in, you know, thinking back, we didn't necessarily get away with eating and drinking and moving a certain way. It's just where we've kind of caught up to this moment. And in this moment, and so, yeah, in our 20s we I feel like we're always in this comparison mode, but you have a family now, we have responsibilities. It looks different now, you know, our stress level is so incredibly high. And we keep addressing everything as, well, it's not mean it's not too high. It's probably normal, right? No, it's absolutely not and we don't realize that, all of that that how that is affecting our health. And even you know, my clients I work with 1 on 1, 6 months is probably the baseline. And that's just getting started. And I think that people feel like at the beginning at the starting line, like six months, like, "Oh my gosh, that's so long." But we're talking about the rest of your life. Six months is nothing and, and I'm not trying to, like, (Lesley: It's like, diminish or...) If you feel bad. Yeah, it make you feel bad, but like, we're just getting started. (Lesley: Oh, yeah.) We're just getting started this and I think that we just have this, you know, I think getting ready for a wedding or getting ready for a vacation or whatever, there's always a start and an end and a start and end, which is creating this yo yo dieting, culture mindset. And it literally like indicates it like as a, our blood pressure's going up and down, up and down, up and down, which is so hard on our body, we've got to instill some consistency within our, our health, within our life. And that comes with time, we never give anything enough time. And if we would just do really tiny things like tiny steps, and did them consistently for 90 days, for 100 days, for six months, for a year, we we discredit the amount of momentum we could build by (Lesley: Yeah) just doing small things, we think we have to start the diet on Monday, we think we have to, you know, start working out five days a week, no excuses, all of this kind of language, which yes, it worked for us at one time, and I was a part of all of that. But if we are going to be sustainable over a life, and you are dealing with health issues, and you have stress in your life, and and and you're a woman, (Lesley: Right) we have to, we have to find a different way.

Lesley Logan 26:53  

There has been a lot, there's like space and grace, it's like, I think you men... you mentioned it before, like there's comparison in there, we're comparing ourselves to like other people, even our own age, and it's like, like, specifically specifically for you, you have two autoimmune diseases, you said, just like two up two that's a lot. Like one's a lot. Two is different, right? So you can't compare yourself to somebody that have any, just like, I can't compare myself to somebody who never who never had an injury or never like, and I think we're wasting a lot of time there. We're also not giving ourselves credit for what we did do to get here. (Amy: Right. Absolutely.) And, and, you know, you said earlier, like six months sounds like a long time. But like, I dealt with some issues for 10 years, 10 years. And so I can say now that I am like, six years post, like actually got the diagnosis actually figured the thing. Now when I have a flare up, I'm like, "Oh, I know exactly what the trigger is." (Amy: Yes.) I'm stressed out. I'm stressed out and I am not being kind to my body. I need to bring everything all the (Amy: Yeah) cortisol down where and you know, I am I ended up even using this tracking app for my cycle, because I filmed for workout. So I'm there are some weeks where I'm filming 14 workouts, which in the grand scheme of things, it's like an hour of workout. So I so I, it's like the workout for the day, right? But I should not be doing that one of the weeks of everyone, that week, (Amy: Yeah) I should not be doing that I should be like, "Okay, I can go for my walk" I can do you know, like run, but I'm not going to like push myself, that needs to be low impact really kind in my body, stretchy stuff. And so when they changed once I had that information, I changed when I was working when I was filming, my inflammation and my stomach issues also went down. And so (Amy: Yeah) it's this thing that like we sometimes we take things like that's just how it is. And other times we think like, (Amy: Right) "Oh, that's too long, I don't have that kind of time." But to your credits, like once you have the information you start to have the healing process, then you have your whole life ahead of you and like that's gonna be a lot longer than the six months of like, (Amy: Yeah) having to trial and error and figure things out.

Amy Denson 28:56  

Yeah, I think there's just so much reassurance and, and really getting to know your body. And I you know, I think we talk so much about things that are common, but they're not normal. So your body is talking to you all the time. And we've got to start listening. We have to, we cannot push it aside and just keep pushing forward. I'll sleep later all, I'll put myself first later right or when when this ends, then you know when summer starts, whatever that is, because if you are having awful periods, your body's screaming at you. If you are having bloating, gassing, women if you are not pooping every day, your body is telling you something. So so many things that I think that you know, for a long time I just thought well, my cramps feeling awful for for the first day or two my period or the week up to, it's just how my mom experienced it. That's just how it is for me. Absolutely not. We are not meant to feel in this comfort most of our life. (Lesley: Right.) And so I think really starting to listen to your body and that is the information that we can work with.

Lesley Logan 30:09  

So can we talk about that? Because I think that that is a really important thing that some people like, "Now I like, I listen to my body." And then there's the perfectionist and overachievers listen to like, "But wait. Like, what does that mean? How do I do that?" So you mentioned, we gonna poop everyday ladies. You also mentioned like, serious cramps, like, yeah, people like, "Oh, I have PCOS or I have this." It's like, yeah, but even people with that don't have to have the worst cramps, there (Amy: Right) are still things you can do. So, (Amy: Absolutely) you know, because I used to have a friend, I had a friend of my practice, I remember, she was only going to the bathroom once every two weeks. And she was (Amy: Right) going to the doctor for this. And the doctor was like, "You just have a really lazy colon." And she's like, "I got that, you didn't, I don't need your medical opinion for that." She's like, I (Amy: Right) she did not have a lazy colon, though (Lesley laughs) (Amy: Right) like rolling faster.

Amy Denson 30:56  

My colon is not inherently lazy. It's not a choice. It's not on the couch watching Netflix like what do we need to do here?

Lesley Logan 31:02  

Yeah. So what are some others like, what are some? It maybe they're not easy, but what are some ways that people could listen to their body? Do they journal? Like, is there an app? Like what tool did you use to start listening to your body and paying attention to signs?

Amy Denson 31:16  

Um, I think my I mean, my awareness is pretty high. I've been listening to my body for a while, as an athlete, I had to, to make sure we're good to go, you know, all of that. But I mean, I think journaling is is a great form. I think really listening to podcasts, listening or books information. Alisa Vitti has a great book in the flow about women's cycle, about even like you were saying, how do you, how can we move within our cycle to really support our cycle? How can I eat within my cycle to really support my cycle? So I think if you're experiencing any discomfort, I would just note that or even imagine like, if, if I imagined my health is like, optimal, though, you know, I imagined myself like, walking through a beautiful field and, you know, the sun shining, and I just feel my absolute best. What does that look like? It does that look like I don't have heartburn anymore? Does that look like I don't have awful periods? Does that look like you know, my hair isn't thinning? Does that look like I don't feel cold all the time? Or I feel like I'm in control of my body. And I'm not just gaining weight all of a sudden, I don't know why? You know, what is that, what is that perfect ish health look like for you? And what symptoms are you experiencing that you would like to either reduce or eliminate?

Lesley Logan 32:54  

Yeah, I like that, I think because that's like, that allows every single listener to choose it for themselves. And you're not comparing my loves because that's not going to get you, (Amy: No, no, no.) you can't like everyone's going to have something that's a different optimal health. But I do think that like, you know, like, so if you're listening to this, if you heard any symptoms that she mentioned there, you're like, "Oh, the I have heartburn." Like, you don't have to have heartburn. And you don't have to take the Prilosec or whatever it's called to like, get rid of it every time you eat. Like, there are things you know, and holistic doctors, like I love mine. She's she's been on the (Amy: Right) podcast before and like, there's things I'm like, "Oh, I just live with this." And she's like, "No, you don't, actually."

Amy Denson 33:34  

Not necessary. (Lesley laughs) And it's just it's just really, it's about what can we do in specifically with heartburn, your body is just telling you, there is a need for some functional support there. We are, you know, and so what can we do to get your body to start performing digestively a little bit more optimally, so that we are not only reducing you taking any like, you know, Prilosec or PPI or anything like that. But we want to reduce the heartburn because it's just an indication that your body is not properly digesting, which (Lesley: Yeah) is everything. (Lesley: Right and that's all your nutrition and all the things. Yeah.) Yeah, just another, it's just another symptom. It's just another way of your body's saying and it. You know, there's no shame around our symptoms. (Lesley: Yeah.) And I think we really need to step away, step back from that. Even weight gain, that's a symptom of something. Right? Weight loss is a symptom of something. So let's figure it out. And you know, I don't think, you know, a lot of time we keep going back to, "Well, I ate this, I didn't eat that. I can't eat this because this causes that." It's a matter of function and really supporting that, rather than having to pick out which foods that you can and can't eat for the rest of your life. (Lesley: Yeah) We really need to get down to the root of what's going on and just say, "Hey, this is what I'm experiencing. I'd like some relief in these areas or more knowledge around these areas. And let's make a plan to move forward." But because you're experiencing something, you are not doing anything wrong. We just need to get more knowledge around what the heck is going on. And I understand that there is hope for some relief. And for a long time, I didn't feel like I had a lot of hope it was something that I had to deal with. (Lesley: Yeah) And so I would get so hard on myself for doing this or doing that, and then my symptoms would pop up, or symptoms would pop up. (Lesley: Yeah) And I felt like I would personally attack myself for, for doing this and that. So let's, let's try to take that off of there as well. And just look at it as information. And that can direct us on where we need to go.

Lesley Logan 35:50  

That's... Yes, all the yeses, because I, you know, I was like you're talking, I was thinking like, so many of these listeners are moms and 100% if their kid was saying something hurt or burned, or they're tired, they would be like figuring out all the things (Amy: Yeah) that would go on to make sure that that was not there. But when it comes to our own bodies, we excuse it away, or "Oh, it's just because I ate that," or "Oh, I shouldn't have ate that. And I know I shouldn't eat that." And that's why it was it's like we're not taking the same care to to make sure that our bodies which are the vessels that you need to continue to be the parent to your the person you love for as long as you can as seriously and I think like we that, that we all could bit change that. And also, I hear you saying a lot of things like being kind. I mean, really kind of yourself because your body's just trying to tell you something, and it's not like you did anything and you're wrong. And I love what you said about the symptoms like think it's amazing. So currently, Amy, before we wrap this up, what are you? Right now, is there anything that you are being it till you see it like? Are you taking new steps, new leaps? Like how are you, how is this mission going for you? And what are you doing that maybe you've never done before but you're working on figuring it out?

Amy Denson 37:04  

Yeah. Well, I mean, I literally just yesterday found out I finished my restorative wellness practitioner certification. You guys, I can test poop now. And I'm so excited. (Lesley laughs) I know not many people would be like, "What are you talking about?" And I actually I have nothing to do with it. But so ...

Lesley Logan 37:25  

You can ask, you can get the test for the, (Amy: I can now...) people to send the poop to the place. (Amy: Yes) Yes.

Amy Denson 37:29  

So I can now offer it's called the GI-MAP. And I can now offer an MRT, which is not a food sensitivities test, it's a test to see what foods are causing inflammation in your body, which is really what we want to get that inflammation down. So with that GI-MAP, we can, we can see the good bacteria, the not so good bacteria, we can see information, we can see auto immune activity. And we can we can really pair that with that MRT test so that we can have a plan to see, "Hey, this is what's going on inside of your gut. Everybody wants to talk about gut health. Well, let's look inside your dang, gut." And this really, really will help with them. I mean, everything lives in our gut. It's our second brain. It has a ton to do with our thyroid functioning, our you know, HPA axis, all of that. So I, I I am pursuing a deep dive into really finding out what's going on for people. So we can try to get to some root causes and really see where we need to support overall function and digestively to (Lesley: So cool.) and I think that that'll just be kind of a waterfall effect for most people's symptoms. So I am so excited. I think this is going to be a game changer.

Lesley Logan 38:41  

I cannot (Amy: ... feeling) I cannot even wait for my husband to listen to this. And he (Amy: Yeah) like, he'll be like, "All of a sudden it's like all this stuff and health. It's great and be kind. And it's like I'm excited because we can test poop now." Like he'll laughs so hard.

Amy Denson 38:54  

Yeah, absolutely.

Lesley Logan 38:55  

Oh my gosh, this is amazing, Amy. I'm really excited for our listeners to hear this and I can't wait to hear how they take away but before we let you go we have to hear your BE IT action items after this brief message.

Okay, Amy, how can people find you, follow you, get to know you more?

Amy Denson 39:14  

Sure. I'm on Instagram at @coachamyrae and you can email me at [email protected] The website is getting a beautiful reboost which will be done in a couple of weeks. And yeah and then I also have a podcast as well called The Chronic Athletes and really just featuring stories of resilience inspiration and all things wellness just to you know show proof that it can be done in exactly what you're doing as well. So

Lesley Logan 39:44  

Oh, I love that so much. Okay, well that's cool because we definitely have some some athletes that are listening and also I had a girl on I'll have to connect you, I have to look it up. She actually was a D1 athlete as well. And then she wrote a book on like, how do you like go into life ...

Amy Denson 40:01  

Oh my gosh, that's so needed. The transition is so yep, (Lesley: Yeah) that's so cool.

Lesley Logan 40:04  

I'll I'll, I'll find (Amy: Oh great) her episode and I'll connect you two because like, yeah, it's amazing. (Amy: Thank you.) So okay, before we let you go, bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us?

Amy Denson 40:17  

Yeah, you know, I was thinking about this and I just listened to, to a message the other day. And I think, really identifying and getting over our fear of failure. And I think really just going, just going after it, right, whether it's your health, whether it's your career, whether it's your family, whether it's just getting to know yourself, and understanding that if we are in pursuit of something with intention, there, there really is no failure, right, there's only going to be maybe learning lessons along the way. But if we're not ever pursuing anything, obviously, we're not going to be growing. But I think the pursuit is something is really what starts open more doors in your life, it starts to create that momentum. And I think if we can look at it as more of an opportunity in our pursuit, rather than the lens of failure of something, and really focus on the process, rather than the outcome, right. So a lot of people come with the goal is weight loss, which is great. But what else can we get out of the process? (Lesley: Yeah) What else can we get out of, of you taking that step forward for yourself and your health? Just just, you know, in that pursuit of intention, so I think really letting go of that, that lens of fear of failure, (Lesley: Yeah) and pursuing everything with with that lens of opportunity.

Lesley Logan 41:49  

Oh, I love this. I love those so much. Thank you. That another amazing and unique and I love them. Y'all, how are you use these tips in your life? Co... you're gonna tag @coachamyrae and the @be_it_pod and let us know. Post this on your socials, so we can see your takeaways, so we can shout you out, so we can share it. So we can also just see what you're up to and also what's resonating. If you're like, "I don't know how to do that." Then text this message, send this podcast to a friend. And that is not only how we get Amy's message, it's also how podcasts get heard. And the you have no idea how every single download matters. So every single one of you listen to this, it really does matter to all of us because we can't do this without you. So we want to know how you're using this in your life. Tag us both. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 43:09  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 43:20  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 43:25  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 43:33  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 43:45  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

How much of your day is spent scheduling and just trying to fit everything into the day? LL and Brad share how they are managing their time as business owners and how to infuse gratitude into your journey. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How to schedule your day as a business owner
• When it's time for an assistant 
• The journey is not a waste
• Naming each voice in your head to address
• Say thank you for each experience 

Episode References/Links:

• Ethan Kross: Chatter The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It
• Full Body in 15 registration

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Brad Crowell 0:46  

All right, all right, all right. Welcome back!

Lesley Logan 0:49  

To the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into this gracious conversation with Kellee Forkenbrock. U'm, sorry everyone Brad has has given me a lot of hand signals. It's like a fucking facement coach.

Brad Crowell 1:03  

... a second ago you weren't sitting off to the left of the mic. You were actually on the mic. So now ....

Lesley Logan 1:08  

We're gonna keep all this in. (Brad: Yeah, we're keeping it. We're keeping it.) Not like literally he looks like either like an airplane person like trying to lead the plane in or ...

Brad Crowell 1:16  

If you're watching on YouTube, I'm really good at hiding. So my arm goes off to the side of the camera. And then I'm like, I'm signaling from the side.

Lesley Logan 1:24  

By the way it means my eyes go all the way over to the third baseman (Brad: It's true.) to the right and then I have to assume (Brad: It's true.) "What is he pointing at?" (Brad: Yeah, it's usually ...) Is there something in my hair? (Brad: No.) Is there something on my teeth? (Brad: No.) Anyways, that's ... (Brad: You're beautiful.) Thank you. Thank, you know what? (Brad: Winning, right here.) Well, actually, I'm already using Kellee's BE IT action item. (Brad: I love it.) So, Kellee Forkenbrock in our last episode, if you haven't yet listened to her interview, what are you doing? Go listen.

Brad Crowell 1:51  

What are you doing?

Lesley Logan 1:52  

Seriously? I can't wait to drive through Iowa because Kellee, Rachel, Sandy Brown

Brad Crowell 1:57  

It's gonna be a good hang. I'm looking forward to it.

Lesley Logan 1:59  

Actually, Jenn Voss was there now. Frickin, we're gonna have the best hangout session. (Brad: Yeah, it's gonna be good.) And I've always wanted to know a librarian and I know your cousin is one but (Brad: Yeah) she's sorry to your cousin. I think she's my favorite. So, (Brad and Lesley laughs) if you haven't ...

Brad Crowell 2:15  

Sorry, you also don't know my cousin very well, so fair enough.

Lesley Logan 2:18  

I know. Not yet. Not yet. We're gonna we... it's only Christmas time when I see her. So, um, if you haven't yet listen to that ... what are you doing? Go back. Listen to that one. You can listen after this one. You can hit pause on this one. Whatever you want to do. But anyways, you gotta listen to Kellee because she is amazing.

Brad Crowell 2:33  

She's pretty much fire.

Lesley Logan 2:35  

She's fire. (Brad: That's true.) Also, she has two names.

Brad Crowell 2:39  

She does have two names, and you're gonna have to figure out why she has two names (Lesley: Y'all listen to the episode.) when you listen to the episode. (Lesley: Yeah) (Brad laughs)

Lesley Logan 2:45  

Okay. So, at the time you're listening this Brad and I are in Colorado. (Brad: Oh, yeah.) Kicking it in Denver. (Brad: Yeah) We're hanging out with some of our podcast guests like Michael (Brad: Yeah, where we at.) Unbroken and we are at Momentum Fest which is (Brad: We are at Momentum Fest.) Jessica Valant, who was one of our podcast guests. She is the founder of Momentum Fest and we're so so friggin excited to be there. (Brad: Yeah.) So it's ...

Brad Crowell 3:09  

By the way, it's super fun and it's not Pila... not necessarily only Pilates. (Lesley: It is movements.) It's movement. (Lesley: Yeah) So it's a ton of fun, yoga, barre, dance, Pilates, all the things (Lesley: There's meditation and everything.) Yeah, (Lesley: Yeah) it is, it's an absolute blast. (Lesley: and us. and we're there.) Yeah. And then and then I hang out at the merch booth the whole time. (Lesley: Yeah.) Lesley teaches and she ... (Lesley: I hang out with like John Steele.) She corrals John Steele. (Lesley: We gonna talked to John Steele one day.) Oh, we should have him on the pod.

Lesley Logan 3:38  

I mean, we've already had him on our (Brad: We had.) if you're an OPC member you actually can see the coolest freakin interview. (Brad: It's an incredible.) Not even what's on my notes to talk about but (Brad: No, not at all.) OPC members have access to this incredible interview we did with John Steele. And we surprise John Steele with Jay Grimes which if you're not a Pilates teacher, you're like, oh ... (Brad: Who are these people? Yeah, doesn't mean anything.) words they don't know. But Joseph Pilates is a man and John Steele, (Brad: It's a good place to start.) it's like pseudo adopted son and he wrote a book and Brad's parents also picked up the book because I left it downstairs one year and I promptly decided to hide it when I got to the part where it just says Pilates teaches people have better sex. And I was like, "Let's just not let your parents get to that page." Anyways, Jay Grimes also does a Pilates and Jay always admired John. And so I had to surprise John ...

Brad Crowell 4:27  

It was an incredible opportunity (Lesley: Yeah) because we know Jay really well. Jay is Lesley's teacher. So having John Steele on, we already knew, because we had a, we had a dinner with Jay, he told us all about this book. We have to read it and he told us all about how much he admired John. And then when we were at Momentum Fest a year ago, we had a booth across from John (Lesley: Yeah) and I got a chance to hang with him all weekend. (Lesley: John has ...) Lesley, hung with him all weekend.

Lesley Logan 4:54  

John has a pod hat. John is one of the first people to own (Brad: Yes, he has a Be It pod hat.) the Perfect is Boring trucker hat. (Brad: Yeah) Because an 80 something year old man with a wiry curly hair, (Brad: Yeah) wearing the trucker hat and fuckin' kelly green.

Brad Crowell 5:09  

Pretty cool. Pretty cool. (Lesley: Pretty cool.) Pretty cool. (Lesley: Anyways ...) Anyway, so we surprise John with Jay and it was lovely. So if you're an OPC member, you get to see that (Lesley: Yeah) is part of the Facebook group. So anyway, moving right along ...

Lesley Logan 5:21  

Really quickly, just so you all know, speaking of Pilates, if the idea of better sex, or just the fact that Joseph Pilates as a real human being and other people followed him it has you intrigued or you are just a mat lover in general, the Full Body in 15 doors are open. (Brad: Yes) The link is in the show notes. I'll tell you it's onlinepilates.classes.com/, no, maybe it's not that, it's probably fullbodyin15.com. Brad, what is it? We're gonna edit this out? If we don't know... (Brad: It's fullbodyin15.com) Great. Go there fullbodyin15.com (Brad: Yeah) and the doors are open.

Brad Crowell 5:55  

Yeah. So base... basically, just for those of you who might not know Full Body in 15 is for newbies, beginners, people who are not like, you know that anyone who anyone is welcome to join us. If you've been doing Pilates forever. You're (Lesley: Yeah) welcome to join us for it. (Lesley: Yeah) But this is a beginner's program for people who maybe they're runners or weightlifters or you know, whatever yogi

Lesley Logan 6:19  

If you've heard that you should try out Pilates but you've not (Brad: Right.) it's for dancers, right? It's not. I'm not one. It is the best thing to add to anything you already love. (Brad: Yes) And it is going to, we're teaching you how to do a full body workout in 15 minutes. (Brad: Yep) We actually teach you how to be the teacher of your own body. It's super great. If you are ...

Brad Crowell 6:39  

It's actually really great because (Lesley: Brad did it.) I'm such a nerd about like, technique, and, you know, like structure and all that kind of stuff. And in this in this week long program, there's three workshops there, you know, roughly 90 minutes and Lesley goes through the 'why' of the exercise is. (Lesley: Yeah) And also the 'how', the why and the how. (Lesley: The what, the why.) Right. Yeah and who, I mean ...

Lesley Logan 7:06  

You know, the 'who is you' and the 'win' is when we're doing it. (Brad laughs) So here's the deal. It's the it's a free program. So let's just get to, it's a free program. (Brad: free program) And if you are a Pilates professional, and you're like, "Wait, I still kind of want to go." You can come. (Brad: Yeah, join us. No biggie.) you absolutely can come. We had a ton of teachers join us last time. But this is if you are a mat, if you like literally all you have is room, all you own is like space on the floor to lay down. This is for you. (Brad: Yeah) Go to fullbodyin15.com to sign up. 

Brad Crowell 7:31  

And if you are a Pilates person and your significant other, you've been trying to convince them to do Pilates forever, and they don't listen to you. And you think that they might listen to somebody else. You can have them join us.

Lesley Logan 7:44  

I... Last time we had an osteo path.

Brad Crowell 7:47  

We had the husband (Lesley: of a Pilates teacher) who never does Pilates (Lesley: who is an osteopath) and he watched it and he's like, (Lesley: He did it.) oh, she understands the body. (Lesley: Yeah) This is really cool. (Lesley: Yeah) And that so that there's that.

Lesley Logan 7:59  

Yeah, I mean, I hope he recognizes that his wife also applies.. of Pilates instructor ...

Brad Crowell 8:02  

I'm sure she, I'm sure, I'm sure he was like, "Oh, okay." (Lesley laughs) Yeah.

Lesley Logan 8:06  

It's okay girl. (Brad: I hope so.) My husband also only does it when we have a reteat or so. (Brad: Busted) ... thrown under Brad. Okay. Do we have an audience questions this week?

Brad Crowell 8:15  

We do, we do. We totally do. If the audience question is, what is that sound in the background? (Lesley: That's Bayon.) That's our Bayon.

Lesley Logan 8:23  

He's looking at me. (Brad: Yes) It's too early.

Brad Crowell 8:25  

Yeah, (Lesley: it's too ...) it's way too early buddy. (Lesley: too early for our walk) Like hours hours too early.

Lesley Logan 8:29  

No, the winter really screws (Brad: Yeah) up because I think he gets his clock wrong. (Brad: Yeah) Anyway,

Brad Crowell 8:33  

All right, so the question we got from an audience member, and that was submitted through Instagram, on our Instagram channel was, "How is it possible that you get all the things done that you do? I feel so overwhelmed, and it's, it's like, I need more than one of me. Do you have an assistant? When do you know if you need an assistant?"

Lesley Logan 8:56  

Yeah. So okay, first of all, thank you.

Brad Crowell 9:00  

There's a lot of questions all in one, I think it was great. (Lesley: Yeah) Thanks for that.

Lesley Logan 9:03  

So I you know what? I literally get how do you get everything done in my DMs on a regular basis. And if you were like, "I (Brad: Yeah) wanted to ask you that too." You're gonna keep asking, I'm gonna send you this episode. So here's, here's the deal. In the past when it was just myself and myself, and I paid Brad's company to help. I feel you, like I frickin fill you and I was so scared. I was so scared to hire. I didn't think I could afford it. I didn't think my business was big enough. I don't know who I thought assistants were for. But a lot of the stuff we actually, like a scheduling tool was like hugely essential to getting things done because you'd be surprised what technology can do if they can work like a human.

Brad Crowell 9:51  

Let me just start, let me just start over (Lesley: Okay) because when we met, you were texting all of your clients, (Lesley: I was.) every time, every week

Lesley Logan 9:58  

So you are doing that, you're not alone, I too texted. I had over six figure teaching business 20 hours a week. (Brad: And she was texting all of her clients.) Texting clients, (Brad: and ...) confiming them through text. I never had a day off because they were texting me on my day off to reschedule.

Brad Crowell 10:12  

On Sunday, Saturday, it didn't matter. It was like she was always texting people to book them. And then she had this hilarious like frenzy. She was like, "Hey, Thursday at three just opened up who wants it?" And then like, ...

Lesley Logan 10:25  

Yeah, and that was the whole (Brad: you know) thing (Brad: but) and that was annoying. And then I had a client, who was a 6am client, and he would text me at 5:45 in the morning, going, "I'm hungover. I'm not coming in." I'm like, fuckin' jerk." Because like, so I had to have a talk with him. I was like, "You, if you are drinking the night before, and you do not cancel me at the bar. I'm charging you double. (Brad: Yeah) Do not text me 15 mins before because I'm already up. I'm already on my run." (Brad: I'm already there.) I could have slept in. (Brad: Right) So anyways, (Brad: totally) so

Brad Crowell 10:54  

Anyway, so the point ...

Lesley Logan 10:56  

The irony is, he's the guy, we got the scheduling tool from. (Lesley laughs)

Brad Crowell 10:59  

Yeah, that's true. So he had a scheduling tool business. And when we were talking about it, it was like, "What if all of this stuff was not something you're texting them. Instead, it was in a scheduling tool." And we worked with them for like two or three years to try to build a scheduling tool that was specifically for fitness people. And that was obviously a competitor to Mind Body. And because we were we were annoyed at it. And it was also really costly.

Lesley Logan 11:30  

That was too expensive. It wasn't like, I would rather have a real like human being assistant, if I was going to spend 200 bucks, I'd like you know

Brad Crowell 11:36  

Yeah, I mean, you're you're managing 20 or 30 clients. Right? (Lesley: Yeah) And spent $200 a month to do that didn't seem to make sense. So anyway, we, we started working with this company to build an app that we could then turn around and offer to other Pilates instructors. And unfortunately, that didn't last the way that we had hoped. And after some time, the company actually decided not to build the fitness app. And so we're like, alright, and you know, it's fine. Our business changed, our business had changed a bit at that point. So we were (Lesley: Oh yeah ...) doing things a little differently, but (Lesley: and then the pandemic) and then the pandemic, and that obviously jacked it all up. But during the pandemic, the craziest thing happened, we were approached by another software company, and they said, "Hey, we love what you're doing with Profitable Pilates, you should check out what we're doing. We would love to customize our app to do what you want." (Lesley: Yeah) And I was like, "I'm sorry, say that last part again?" So we get a chance to sit down with them and to review what it is that they're doing. And then we got to add in fitness business coaching (Lesley: Yeah) to their (Lesley: Yeah) amazing scheduling tool. (Lesley: Yeah) And that was like I wish that had been there when we were looking for a (Lesley: Oh my God) scheduling tool years before. (Lesley: Yeah) and now this is the only scheduling tool out there that has a fitness business coaching built into the app, (Lesley: Yeah) you know, and it's all directed by you know Lesley, so the the anyway you you need this app because it's going to save you all of that time texting, all that time scheduling, you're going to automatically be charging people for late cancels, all this stuff (Lesley: Yeah) and what what circling back around (Lesley: to this question) to the question all of this stuff takes so much time.

Lesley Logan 13:27  

People don't realize like actually how much time it takes until they have to do it anymore. The the the the idea that when you go to check your text messages, your business is blended with your personal life is overwhelming, (Brad: That's actually stressful.) it's very stressful (Brad: Yeah) Brad is very big on this, we don't like he and I try really really hard not to even text each other about business. (Brad: Yeah) Like we it is like a last record like, "911. Holy get on here." (Brad: Yeah, texts each other. Right.) But um so I, if you are a fitness business instructor and you are overwhelmed, you need my scheduling tool, get in the show notes to get the 30 day free trial, (Brad: Yup) it will act as an assistant for you and it's like the fee once you start is 50 bucks a month. I promise you you cannot find an assistant for 50 bucks a month and so it's going to take over a lot of the busy work that you have to do especially the bookkeeping, the payroll, the the package can't count...

Brad Crowell 14:18  

Yeah, if you have a team there's a there's another level that does teams you can pay them all the things. Anyway (Lesley: anyway) but the the I think that the biggest thing is the mental space that you're going to get back (Lesley: Yeah) that you don't have to think about, "Oh, I have to remember to text this person because they canceled or no ..." 

Lesley Logan 14:34  

And that's overwhelming like keeping all that in your head. (Brad: Rght) And you're gonna miss it and then you're gonna and then if you are overwhelmed right now, I know you, if you're listening to this podcast, you are a recovering or like still a perfectionist overachiever person. Hi, I see you. And you are going to get mad at yourself when you forgot to text someone in time to get them scheduled for something and you're like, "I lost that money." You need a scheduling tool. I promise (Brad: Yeah) you. I don't care how little you think your business It's going to allow you to feel legitimate, it's going to take your business away from your personal life and allow you to have space and grace. (Brad: Yeah) The other thing ... (Brad: ... oh, God.) Oh, I was just gonna go to the next question ...

Brad Crowell 15:10  

Oh, so if you if you have any interest in how Lesley schedules her actual calendar, we've got a free webinar on that that also will lead you to this our scheduling tool, the webinars called Ditching Busy and ditchingbusy.com. (Lesley: Yeah) If you want to go directly and skip the webinar and go directly to download the app, we will put that link in the show notes.

Lesley Logan 15:33  

Yeah. So the second question is, or the second two questions, "Do have an assistant when you need to know you need an assistant? (Brad: Yeah) So in full transparency, we all have assistants in our company, because while I have, like the tools for people to schedule with me, I actually need someone to help me schedule me for other things. (Brad: Sure) So um, so that could not be automated by a bot. Anyway. And so and Brad, same thing like he, he has, we have a scheduling tool for him. But we need someone to monitor that and also help him get things on the book.

And protect my calendar, and all, you know, I double book myself sometimes all the things, you know.

Yeah, so so in fact, we do have assistants, even our operations person has an assistant now, how do you know you need assistant? When like you have made sure you've automated everything you frickin can (Brad: Yeah) and you still can't get it all done. (Brad: Yeah) You need and you also need ...

Brad Crowell 16:33  

And when you when you feel like you're barely keeping your head above water, (Lesley: Yeah) and you've already put automations in place, because that's like, like, for example, we we had the first assistant that we ever hired. You know, she was with us for four years. (Lesley: Shout out to Lindsay.) Yeah, Lindsay, she's the most organized person we've ever met. She's amazing.

Lesley Logan 16:34  

Seriously, I know. And she's ... (Brad: but after ...) all of these things. And I'm like, "That girl's kid is going to be the most organized child."

Brad Crowell 16:51  

But after two years, she was like, "Hey," and she raised her hand, she's like, "By the way, I'm so maxed on my hours, I can't do anything else." And we went back and we looked at all the things we had asked her to do two years ago, and we're like, "Oh, you're still doing that." PS, we can automate that now. And so we took like, almost a third, maybe even half of what we had originally asked her to do. And we turned it into some kind of an automation, which freed up a bunch of time for her to be able to do the things that were actually benefiting us, (Lesley: Yeah) you know, so (Lesley: and so I know ...) automation is first and then you know, you need to then when you still like, "Wow, I just can't manage it all." That's when you would consider bringing on an assistant.

Lesley Logan 17:37  

And you would bring on an assistant and you didn't ask this but I'm gonna tell you whose strengths are your weaknesses. So you're not hiring another you. You're hiring someone who is like, I am so not detail oriented, literally came in with an idea to the team and I'm like, "Great, can you tell my assistant that idea and tell her to help me schedule it." And that's just (Brad: Right) because my strengths are not details, that is not and when I have to get in the details, it immediately pulls me into this like I get frickin negative to be honest I like get pissy, I like don't have an abundance mindset. So I have learned to delegate that off into people whose strengths are the details. So I love this question. Thank you (Brad: Great question.) for asking. (Brad: Yeah) Really amazing. If you have a question for us that you would like our opinion on, just DMs at the @be_it_pod. (Brad: And it can be anything.) Yeah, you can ask Brad about his cactuses. He loves it.

Brad Crowell 18:27  

I mean, we were just listening to Iliza (Lesley: Schlesinger) Schlesinger. And her the questions she gets are, (Lesley: Yeah) they make no sense to me why, anyway, ask them because how could she possibly ...

Lesley Logan 18:40  

You want to ask me about our wedding? You can ask us about our wedding.

Brad Crowell 18:42  

... Be an expert on some of this stuff. But I love it. I think it's amazing. So you can ask us anything.

Lesley Logan 18:47  

You can ask us anything. It does not have to be business. It does not have any Pilates. (Brad: Nope) It can literally be like, like, you know, what's your favorite water bottle? Which I will tell you once they freakin pay me because I'm obsessed with this bottle everyone.

Brad Crowell 18:58  

Yeah, yeah, we've got a new company.

Lesley Logan 18:59  

I'm obsessed (Brad: They are pretty cool.) And the moment you hear me talking about it. Yes, I'm getting paid. And yes, you're gonna buy it. (Brad laughs) Anyways, I think we should talk about Kellee.

Brad Crowell 19:08  

Yeah, let's talk about Kellee. All right. Eliza David, (Lesley: whoa) when a pen is in hand, and Kellee Forkenbrock on the day to day, when she's working in the library. She's hanging with her kids or attending grad school. Kellee is an author, student, librarian and Mama whose life began at 40. Or so she says when she decided to get sober and started following her passions. (Lesley: Okay ...) So I'm just gonna say that again. She's got two names because one is her pen name. And the other is her real name. (Lesley: Yes. Okay.) Yeah. (Lesley: So) I know we just gave it away even though we told you at the beginning that you need to do listen the other episode but ...

Lesley Logan 19:49  

You know if they made it this far. Now they're in. You're in. (Brad: It's true. Now you're in.) First of all, also, I think if you buy her books on Amazon and like 99 cents and there's some free ones.

Brad Crowell 19:56  

Yeah. They're 99 cents, she's got one free and the others at 99 cents. (Lesley: Yeah and ...) So go support Eliza David. That's what with the z - e l i z a

Lesley Logan 20:04  

And if you're not if you're like, "I don't do steamy romance." Let me just tell you after Dr. Celeste, and the, you know, the Fifty Shades of Grey, I think we all could use, like a little reprieve of like learning things and you know all this stuff like go let your mind wander. So, go go read her books. I think that'd be great. She's amazing. I'm gonna jump in with one thing I love that she said, which is the journey is not a waste and this one. (Brad: Yeah) I gotta be honest, I I'm a recovering perfectionist and overachiever. Notice it is inactive recovering. Because I freaking hate when things don't go the way I plan. And I want 100% start off with like, what a waste of time. That was such a waste of time or like we make a wrong turn like, "Oh my God, that was like 20 minutes." That is ...

Brad Crowell 20:51  

I know. I get frustrated too. When I when I mess up the directions.

Lesley Logan 20:54  

It just happened the other day. (Brad: Yeah) We were getting tile, you had to go to another appointment. (Brad: Yeah) And you missed the exit. And you're like, you're like so mad at yourself. And you made it to your appointment on time anyway.

Brad Crowell 20:54  

I did. I made it.

Lesley Logan 20:54  

Because Vegas has no traffic. Anyway, the point is, I'm still I believe this, I 100% like cosign subscribe, like the journey is not a waste, I will tattoo it somewhere on my body. And yet, I catch myself thinking it's a waste. And so I really love that she mentioned this because I needed the reminder, that means you all need the reminder. And ...

Brad Crowell 21:27  

Well, so okay, so she's sober. (Lesley: Yeah) And she didn't get sober until I believe her early like end of her late 30s, late 30s, early 40s. I'm not sure exactly. But it I would imagine, it would be very easy to go. Wow 20 years of hard drinking, I feel like was a waste.

Lesley Logan 21:46  

Well, we'll just say drinking. I don't want to put a thing attached though I don't know ...

Brad Crowell 21:50  

Oh, she very clearly said hard drinking (Lesley: Okay) in the interview. (Lesley: If she said, okay, that's fine. And ...) Straight up. She transitioned from binge drinking in college to (Lesley: Well, she didn't have like a bubble.) she said she had three phases. (Lesley: Yeah. Okay.) She said binge drinking in college to to the New York West Side martinis to the wine Mama. (Lesley: Oh, and she ...) And she said when, when she said the reason that the big, the big awareness was when her daughter was like, "Mom, you're having a bad day? Do you want mommy juice?" And (Lesley: yeah) she was like, "Oh, my God."

Lesley Logan 22:25  

Well, we we we have a member whose kids also pour... poured mommy juice for her. And she's like, "Is this a bad thing?" (Lesley laughs) (Brad: Right. So ... ) It was a pandemic. We'll give her a break.

Brad Crowell 22:36  

... anyway, definitely, she definitely put that out there. But anyway, I think that it would be easy to look back on that and say, "What a waste?"

Lesley Logan 22:46  

Yeah. And you know, here's the deal. If you took it, (Brad: That I would disagree.) Yeah. And she would too. (Brad: Yes) So, whether you like if you think you took the wrong job, or you did the wrong person or you chuck the wrong route to work one day or, you know, you did something you're like, "That was so stupid." None of that is a waste. All of it, is a lessons and learning experiences. And I you know, I I think we need to be kinder to ourselves, and we need to almost be more of a observer in those times where things don't go the way we planned (Brad: Yeah) or we made a decision. We look back on and go, "Woah, that was dumb." You know, I mean, I was just had a ...

Brad Crowell 23:25  

It's really hard. It's really hard to be kind to yourself.

Lesley Logan 23:28  

Well, I was just on a lunch date with someone. And we were talking about exes. And like, I didn't say this because I have, I am so grateful. I but like she had mentioned like, "You know, I wasted all this time with these people." And I and I said, "You know, my husband and I probably would not have married each other if we had not had the relationship before." Because I wasn't (Brad: I think that's very ...) like a musican. Are you kidding? (Brad: Yeah) Because I dated all these perfect on paper people I was like, well guess what? Let's try something new. So I like the journey is not a waste, everything is setting you up for the next step. And I was just, (Brad: Yeah) "Who was I talking to about ...?"

Brad Crowell 23:29  

... the successes and the failures

Lesley Logan 23:36  

Yeah, but I was talking to somebody about video games maybe the podcast, anyways. Basically like Mario Brothers, Donkey Kong that's a video games I played. So so sorry go back to your elder millennial days (Brad: and duck hunter.) Yeah, I did not get Duck Hunter, (Brad: Oh) because you needed it like an extra thing. (Brad: Yeah) I was poor. So um, the fact that we had Donkey Kong and Mario Brothers when my grandfather got tired of it. Anyways, so you like you do a level and you learn a bad guy and you beat that bad guy and then the next level you have that bad guy but you know but then there's a new bad guy and then you learn that and then the (Brad: Sure) next level and then you get to the palace to save the fucking princess. And I frickin hate it with no save a fucking princess. Like it could be a frickin prince by the way. Anyways, we're saving someone and all the bad guys you've ever had to be are all there, right?

Brad Crowell 25:00  

Also her name was Princess Toadstool. (Brad laughs) That's such a weird name.

Lesley Logan 25:05  

Somebody didn't like women. Anyways, the truth is, is that you could not be at that level if you hadn't done the other levels. (Brad: Yeah) So whatever you're about to go up to whatever obstacles in your way, the only reason you actually have any attempt at achieving, getting past it going through it being on the other side of it is because of the journey you had before it. All the things you had before, all the lessons you learned, whether you choose to learn from those lessons that's on you. But but they're all happening for you.

Brad Crowell 25:37  

Well, I think it's funny. Funny is the wrong word. I think that it's when it becomes circuitous. If you don't learn from it.

Lesley Logan 25:45  

Can you say that word again?

Brad Crowell 25:46  

Circuitous. (Lesley: I don't think I know it.) ... meaning it's a circuit. (Lesley: Oh) (Lesley laughs) It's a circle as a better way to say. So you won't, you know, if you don't learn from the experience you had, you somehow, in some form, you end up repeating that experience. (Lesley: Oh) So I think a great example is people who end up dating the quote, unquote, "same person over and over" or they quote, unquote, "make the same mistakes over and over and over". It's because, you know, you haven't learned from it the first time (Lesley: Yeah) or the second time or third time. (Lesley: Yeah.) And so becomes a pattern.

Lesley Logan 26:21  

Yeah. Well, anyways, I guess we could talk about that for an hour. (Brad: It's a whole another thing.) Thank you, Kellee, for that. What did you love what she said?

Brad Crowell 26:32  

So she said, she actually had this whole conversation about discern... discerning, the voice of fear, versus the voice of reason. (Lesley: Yeah) And I thought that was, (Lesley: She's brilliant.) that was really poignant. Yeah. I mean, like ...

Lesley Logan 26:49  

We're gonna get Brad word of the day toilet paper for the pod, like you can poignant, circuitous.

Brad Crowell 26:54  

That was a really gracious. No, so so ...

Lesley Logan 26:59  

Poignant is great. It fits perfectly. Keep it in.

Brad Crowell 27:01  

Yeah, she, she. I thought this was really cool because everybody second guesses themselves, you know. And ... it like for her, she was talking about going to get a master's degree. You know, she's in her, I think mid 30s at that point. And she's like, "Really now? Why, you know, is this the right thing to do?" Her husband was excited about it. She already had kids at this point. But, you know, and then she started to second guess herself. And she's like, "Wow. Really, do I need this? Why do I," you know, and started this, like, you know, rabbit trail of why. And, ultimately, that allowed her to come through the fear and decide this is the voice of reason, not the voice of, you know, (Lesley: fear) fear. Because, like, is she afraid that no one's going to take her seriously unless she has the degree. Right? (Lesley: Yeah) Or is she going to further her career and life by having this degree?

Lesley Logan 28:07  

Yeah, I think that I think this is like y'all. I don't know, somehow this is becoming a shirt. Like, people like, "Oh, my gut says this." Is it your gut, though? Is it like is it your gut? Or are you, is it a fear voice in there? And I think, I think a lot of times obstacles, fear voices, they're going to come up on purpose, how bad are you going to fight for them? Are you going to reason with yourself? Are going to take time to get to know that, that the difference of it and and so I, I would love to hear if you have and I, if you have a clear understanding of the voice of fear versus voice of reason. And also, by the way, I'm reading this book Chatter, but you should name them you should have a name for the voice of reason. (Brad: Oh, yeah.) And you should have a name for the voice of fear and you should have a name for that bitch in your head who's like telling you to, "You're not good enough." They should all like, they should all be named. And and you can go you know what, "Tina, (Sorry for the Tina's listening. I love you. This is I'm just picking out Tina, it came to my head.) I hear you and I'm not afraid of that." (Brad: Yeah) But thank you for that. You can take that and also ...

Brad Crowell 29:13  

We're gonna get there, we're gonna get there. (Lesley: Okay ..) But I think that, you know, the, the way that she decided this was a voice of reason not fear was to dig into her, 'why'. Why am I doing this? What you know, like, why go after a master's degree? Why at this point in my life, you know, why do I want to do this? And when she began to analyze that, when she began to look at her 'why', then it allowed her to confidently say, I I should do, I should I should do this. Sorry. Our dog is digging at the carpet because the carpet is clearly not soft enough.

Lesley Logan 29:58  

Well, but also she has with the current state of our house is because she dug it two carpets. (Brad: It's true.) And she won. (Brad: Yeah) So I just sent her a very soft hair tie.

Brad Crowell 30:10  

So but but she so Kellee was talking about her why, and her why allowed her to confidently make the decision. And that is something that each and every one of us can take away and really start to shake that like imposter syndrome. (Lesley: Yeah) You know that that fear based decision making. Why are you doing what you're doing, will help you confidently make the decision.

Lesley Logan 30:39  

I Kellee, I'm obsessed with you and Rachel Piper, our OPC teacher, girl. Thank you. Thank you for introduction. (Brad: Good choice. Good referral.) Okay, so let's talk about the BE IT action item that she had, because I have referenced it a couple of times (Brad: You have) I'm so excited about it.

Brad Crowell 30:56  

Yeah. All right. All right. So what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Kellee Forkenbrock?

Lesley Logan 31:04  

Learn to say thank you. Learn to say thank you. Thank you, Tina. Thank you, I don't know the voice of reason. It just ...

Brad Crowell 31:15  

The voice of fear, the voice of reason, the ...

Lesley Logan 31:18  

Yeah. Name them all for yourself. Name yourself, thank yourself. Then she said thank you for the for for releasing from me from that ex. Thank you for this argument I get to have with another.

Brad Crowell 31:28  

Well, everything about this goes back to the the the first action item that you pulled out, which is the journey is not a waste.

Lesley Logan 31:35  

Thank you for that opportunity to learn about myself.

Brad Crowell 31:39  

Right. Thank you for you know, bringing me to a place where I realized that this is no longer serving me whatever this might be. Kellee's case, she was talking about alcohol, you know, and this is not serving me anymore. And I've become aware of it. Thank you for that experience. I mean you move on. (Lesley: Yeah) Could be changing a job. It could be firing a client. It could be, I don't know (Lesley: Yeah, I think ...) whatever, opening a new bank account.

Lesley Logan 32:05  

I mean, like, and also when she said learn to say thank you. She didn't say and then qualify it. So my ladies listening when someone says you look amazing. Don't say this old thing from Ross. I don't care if it's this old thing from Ross, say thank you. (Brad: Right, this old thing from Ross, awww) Or it was on sale. Like ...

Brad Crowell 32:26  

No, you don't have to, that's just deflection that's not actually receiving.

Lesley Logan 32:29  

You're literally not receiving it. So thank thank thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. First of all, thank you for listening.

Brad Crowell 32:38  

Yeah, thank you for listening.

Lesley Logan 32:40  

Thank you, Kellee, for becoming like part of our world. I or letting us into your world or I don't know, I'm just freaking excited to know you. I'm gonna go get a library card. By the time, (Brad: Yeah) you listen to this, I have a library card because I actually have 17 books. I want to listen to 17 like exact, because I just listened to an interview with a woman. She said 'yes' to the podcast, by the way. (Brad: Oh yeah) So I'm super excited about it. And it's three books about venture capitalism. And you're like, "What Lesley, I don't want to know anything about that." Let me just tell you, my ladies listening because I know what our listeners are hello to the men, but 98% of you are girls. Women identify as women. Here's a deal. We need to know how to create wealth. (Brad: Yeah) Because I'm sorry, I'm not waiting 202 years to achieve the same wealth as men. You shouldn't be excited about that. So I'm getting a library card because. 

Brad Crowell 33:28  

They don't know what you're referring to. But yes.

Lesley Logan 33:30  

She's coming on, you'll know when (Brad: Yeah) you'll know. You'll know when it comes on. (Brad: Yeah) Thank you for listening. Thank you. (Brad: Thank you.) I'm getting a library card because this woman rapid, like rattled off like three books that I have to listen to. And then I met with this coffee girl, and she ran off three new books I need to read. And so I just need a library card because I refused to buy extra credits on Audible. So I'm just gonna (Brad: Yeah, I know.) go with that. And you too. (Brad: I went too.) You too, should get a library card. (Brad: You too.) Let's all support our local librarians. Okay, Kellee, thank you. (Brad: Thank you.) Brad, thanks for being here.

Brad Crowell 34:01  

Oh, thanks, Lesley. Same to you.

Lesley Logan 34:04  

Thank you for saying my name correctly. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 34:07  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 34:09  

Thank you for joining us today. It's just because people always say it wrong. (Brad: I know.) And they and you know what if you've done that it's okay.

Brad Crowell 34:16  

We still love you.

Lesley Logan 34:17  

I'll still say thank you.

Brad Crowell 34:18  

Thank you for saying her name wrong. (Lesley: Yeah.)

Lesley Logan 34:22  

Thank you for being here. How are you going to use these BE IT actions action items in your life? I want to know, tag the @be_it_pod. Brad wants to know, he's @cactus_daddie by the way. There's a i e at the end. So, I spell it right. And Kellee. By the way, Kellee is with two e's. So

Brad Crowell 34:38  

K e l l e e (Lesley: Yeah. But she is ...) Forkenbrock. You can't mess that out.

Lesley Logan 34:42  

Yeah. Her instagram handle if I work, recall is @writegirlproblems. Right? As in ...

Brad Crowell 34:48  

It'll be in the show notes because I don't actually remember.

Lesley Logan 34:51  

It'll be in the show notes. Don't worry about it. I remember because I really like it. So tag us both. And if you're feeling fancy tag @cactus_daddie. So we ...

Brad Crowell 35:00  

And 99 cents, go find some of her books.

Lesley Logan 35:02  

I know. (Brad: Yeah) Oh my gosh. Go get some steamy romance in your life. (Brad: Eliza David) Eliza David. (Brad: Oh yeah.) Anyways, freaking obsessed. Kellee, thank you so much. How are you going use these BE IT action items in your life? We want to know. Tag us and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 35:19  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 35:22  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 35:55  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 36:06  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 36:10  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 36:19  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 36:31  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Looking for your next beach read? Author, student, librarian, and momma joins the podcast to talk about her journey through sobriety, career changes, and the impact of gratitude. This conversation highlights the reality of how we can get stuck following the expectations of others leaving us unfulfilled and the freedom found in making a change. The end is full of great book recommendations to add to your reading list!

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• What we talk ourselves into 
• The two secrets to success 
• Who is Eliza David
• Embracing uncertainty as the key to sanity 
• Discerning the voice of fear vs the voice of reason
• The journey is not a waste
• Book recommendations to add to your list 
• Learn to say thank you for every part of the journey 

Episode References/Links:

• Follow Kellee on IG
• Follow Kellee on Twitter
• Follow Kellee on Facebook
• Eliza David Books
• Eliza David Website
• Alice Walker's: In Search of Our Mothers’ Gardens
• Judy Blume's: Wifey
• Selena Montgomery's: Secrets and Lies
• Ethan Kross': Chatter The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It

Guest Bio:

After twenty years of working in the private sector (and as many years drinking to excess), Kellee turned forty and decided to do the work to change her life. She quit her employer of a decade and joined her local library as an assistant. Within four months of employment, she was promoted to her current role as Public Services Librarian, serving as the community engagement liaison for the library and assisting with the management of the library’s part-time staff.

Kellee holds a Bachelor’s in Marketing and is pursuing a Masters in LIS from the University of Iowa. She is active in her community, lending her service to the Iowa City Public Library Board of Trustees, Girls on the Run of Eastern Iowa, and as an Ambassador for the Iowa City Area Business Partnership.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Hey, Be It listener. How are you? How many times have you thought to yourself that it's too late for you to do something? How many times have you thought, "Oh, what will people think if I do that?" How many times have you maybe not even approached your partner or your family? Like, "Hey, I have this dream. I'm thinking of doing." How many times have we not done that? My guess is, it's probably more than you can count. Because I definitely have done it too. And, I'm sure something's come with age, for sure. But I wish they didn't have to. I wish we could maybe know about them sooner. And maybe if we met more people like this week's guest, we would, you know, and, and I know all of our parents did the best they could. So this is not a knock on anyone's parenting but it is something that I think happens. We, we talk ourselves into a career because it feels safe, because it looks a certain way, because we think it's going to give us what we wanted. And then we stay in it, maybe longer than we should. And everything happens the way it's supposed to. So if you are someone who is 25 years into something, and you're like just now getting the guts to want to change. Great, that's the exact right time. But my guest this week, is an incredible, incredible woman who has a lot to share. Her name is Kellee Forkenbrock and she is a, well, she has many things. She's a wife and a mother. She is a writer, she is a librarian. And she didn't start out with all those like things right, obviously, obviously, the wife and mother thing, but I can't wait for you to hear that her story of finding sobriety of changing career of how she's able to do so much in a day. And it is a couple things that, you know what they actually they don't cost any money. They just require communication, vulnerability, so I can't wait to hear those. And I have to say one of the most unique BE IT action items I've ever heard. We've heard a lot. And this one, this one, I mean, I'm already using. I'm already going to use because it's so beautiful and so special and life changing. So I can't wait for you to hear it this episode. Kellee came to me, as you'll hear in her intro, because I asked you listeners, who should I interview? Who do you want to, who do you want to hear on the pod? And if there are people that you want to hear on the pod? Just DM the @be_it_pod. Let us know, you know we'll reach out to them if they're aligned with the podcast and I am obsessed with getting to share amazing women, amazing humans with you and Kellee is just I'm really excited for you to dive into this episode. But I also would love to hear who you want to hear in your ears. So please let me know at the be at pop at the @be_it_pod. In the meantime, here is Kellee.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Alright Be It listeners, I have a very special woman here she was actually sent my way by one of our listeners and OPC instructor Rachel Piper. So, I am so grateful. In fact, if you are listening to this, and you're like, "Oh, I want Lesley to interview this person," you can tell me and I will happily look into them and see if we can put them on the pod. Kellee Forkenbrock is here. Oh my goodness, I this woman has done a lot in her life. And I'm really excited to share it with, share her with you. And also I kind of love as I will get into this in a second. But I feel like we put ages on things, we think we can't do something. And I remember hearing a lot of people think when they hit 40, they can't do something. And like the life is different. And Kellee is here to share that, "No, but life does not stop at any certain number and you can have a lot more to whatever it is you want to do." So Kellee, thanks for being here.

Kellee Forkenbrock 4:34  

Thank you so much, Lesley. I'm so happy to be on your platform.

Lesley Logan 4:38  

Oh, well. I'm really happy to hear your story and share it with all of our listeners. You are a force. So Kellee, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you're up to these days. I know you know, Rachel and I know you're in Iowa but you are doing a lot over there. So what are you up to right now?

Kellee Forkenbrock 4:54  

Well, so I'm Kellee Forkenbrock. I am a librarian, I am a wife and a mother. I'm a author, I am a yogi and Rachel is trying to get me to get closer to my Pilates. So I'm, I'm really stepping into my Pilates right now. And overall, I'm just, you know, a human. I love my life, I love where my life is going. And just as you said at the beginning, I'm in my 40s. And life for me really did begin at 40. It really sounds so cliche, but the amount of things that I've accomplished I'm 43, and the things that I've done over the past three, four years since I've entered my 40s, it's it's unexplainable, but I'm going to try my best to explain today but but yeah, that's just a little bit about me. I work at North Liberty library here in North Liberty, Iowa. If you're familiar with Iowa, we are just 15 minutes away from the University of Iowa in Iowa City. I am also an author, my author name is Eliza David, I have self published 12 titles. And I've been in several anthologies, my chosen genre is a romance, specifically romance with black characters feature prominently. I am working on my 13th novel right now, which I started in 2019. But then I decided to go to grad school. And now that I've finished my first year of grad school, I'm coming back to it. It is called Love in Reverse. It will be coming out this summer, it's going to be just a little short novella. I'm just trying to get my feet wet again, with fiction writing, because I've spent the past year doing academic writing and working. (Lesley: Oh my God.) So yeah, I'm really trying to ease myself back into the romance fiction arena. But yeah, that's just a little bit about me. I just, I love what I do. I've been a resident of Iowa for over 20 years, but I am born and bred from the south side of Chicago. That is my home. My mom and my brother are there. So I visit as frequently as I can. It's not too far from here but ...

Lesley Logan 7:08  

It's not. (Kellee: Yeah) I nev... like I'm from California, born and raised. And I just moved (Kellee: Right) to Las Vegas two years ago. And when I we've done for cross country trips now. And when I was driving through Iowa, and like Chicago is right there. It's like (Kellee: Yeah) it's you know, I don't know, it's like, you don't know the map anymore when you live in a state that you drive eight hours, and you're still in it. So it's really shocking to me. (Lesley and Kellee laughs) When you're like, "Oh, it's just like it's just right there." So this is Kellee, you're freaking, you are on your 13th romance novel. And you've gone to grad school and your library and you are a mom and a wife that I know our listeners are many of them are married, many of them are moms, many of them are trying or working for themselves or or work for someone for their work. And they're probably like, "How are you writing so many books and going to school and do all these things?" So do you have a secret of like, you know, maximizing time or do you bend time? Does time standstill? How do you do it? (Kellee laughs)

Kellee Forkenbrock 7:13  

Well, we all I know I hate to say it like this because this is so cliche, too, we all have the same 24 hours. But what I tried to do is and this is something that I've learned in my 40s. I really have to give myself grace, I'm very much a go getter, extroverted individual. So in my 20s, and 30s, I spent a lot of time just bop, bop, bop, trying to get work done. You know, this was before I became a librarian, I've only been a librarian for three years. But the first 20 years of my career was in the private sector. So I worked at companies in in the realm of sales and marketing and public relations and project management. So a lot of corporate duties. So I really got used to that nine to five, this is what I do from nine to five, this is what I can do after five. And when I started writing, I wrote my first book when I was 35 in 2014. And from there my first book, which is free on Amazon, it's called the Cougarette under my writer name Eliza David. And I just kept writing from there. But I guess if I, if I can save what helps is one, I have such a supportive family. My husband and I have literally been together half my life, we've been we are coming up on 18 years of marriage.

Lesley Logan 9:21  

Whoa, congratulations. (Lesley laughs)

Kellee Forkenbrock 9:24  

I know. Thank you. We're coming up on 18 years of marriage in October. And so he's known me since the beginning of my career before that when I was in college, so he's always known that I'm a go getter. He's a go getter. So we really try to support each other in that way to make sure that we have the space to do the things that we want to do. And in my case, really allowing myself to you know, allowing me to have that space to write and still care for the children and care for him and do my professional work that brings in the real money. That's been helpful. But again, I come back to just really giving myself grace, it was really hard for me to walk away from writing in 2019. I've started this novel that I'm currently working on. In 2019, I was about two months sober. And I still wasn't convinced that I was going to stay sober. And then the pandemic happened six months later and ...

Lesley Logan 10:18  

Can I just say, if you could stay sober through a pandemic, you (Kellee: Man)... you're gonna be fine. (Lesley laughs)

Kellee Forkenbrock 10:24  

I'm writing that on my tombstone, "Here she lies. She stayed sober through the pandemic." So whatever you else you have to say about me, ended with that because ... (Lesley and Kellee laughs)

Lesley Logan 10:36  

Because the reality is I don't I don't know the stats, but I feel like, like sales of alcohol went up.

Kellee Forkenbrock 10:43  

Oh, yeah, I'm sure because I know that if I hadn't started my sobriety journey, before the pandemic, I would have had a much harder bottom after the pandemic, if not during. (Lesley: Yeah) So I'm really thankful that I tapped into that part of my journey then. But tapping into my sobriety, so early in its infancy, really took a toll on my creativity. I didn't feel like writing, I don't think a lot of writers felt like writing, I was just talking with a writer, friend of mine yesterday, and we were talking about how while we're coming back to projects that we started three years ago, because it just that all the creative juices out of me I couldn't write. So, you know, I had to give myself grace in that moment to say, "Okay, writing is not the thing I want to do right now." And it took me a long time to get to that place. (Lesley: Yeah) And then once I started grad school, I really had to give myself grace. So I would say those are the two kind of secrets behind my success, if you will, (Lesley: Yeah) is a supportive family unit. And the ability to allow myself to not do everything on my to do list to say, "You know what, this is what I got done today. This is good. Let's rest now. Let's put this away now."

Lesley Logan 11:58  

That's beautiful. And I think like, I think a lot of people will be nodding along and it's like, and then it's like easier said than done, you know. (Kellee: It is.) I think ... Thank you for being so honest because I do think a lot of people look at someone who's writing, who's written, you're on your 13th novel, and you're going to grad school, and you're doing all these things. And it's like, "Oh, it must be so easy for her." And I, and I actually think it's like, (Kellee: Oh God) it just looks easy unless you're not doing it. If you're the one doing it ...

Kellee Forkenbrock 12:24  

Exactly. (Lesley: It's not easy.) Yeah, because it yeah, it looks it looks easy because I think another thing is that social media, which I'm a huge fan of social media, so you can always look me up under my writer name Eliza David on all the platforms, except Snapchat and TikTok because I refuse. My kids are obsessed with TikTok, I refuse. I get enough TikTok in my house. But I think that sometimes when we look at folks on social media, talking about their accolades, and what they're doing, what we what we don't see is the struggle, what we don't see is the work, you don't see the behind the scenes, you see what's on stage. And that's how social media set up to be.

Lesley Logan 13:01  

It set up to be because I was just telling someone I was coaching today, because she was, you know, upset that she was wanting to record and film and she had three hours set aside for it. And then there wasn't enough storage for the film. And then, like the lighting wasn't right, or then this happened. And I said, "Just so you know, I have to record 30 new tutorials because I record all of them and the audio didn't work." And (Kellee: Yeah) I said, "When I don't put it on there. I'm busy re recording. I'm not I don't have the time to tell you, (Kellee: Yeah) I have to re record these things. I've got to re record them." And also, I also think like you don't want to hear that because you don't want that negativity in your life. You don't, like I don't no one's wants to go, "Oh," or then it welcomes like, "Oh, I'm so sorry." I don't want to be sorry. This is not bad. This is like ya know...

Kellee Forkenbrock 13:43  

Yeah ... like, even when you try to be vulnerable on social media, it's always a double edged sword because people want you to be vulnerable and be like, "Okay, girl, tell us the real story." And then when you tell them the real story, then they say, "Oh, it's not so bad" and then it becomes the oppression Olympics. So you know, at the end of the day, you really have to be grounded in yourself and especially when it comes to how you portray yourself on social media for me you know there are you know, I use my platforms, I talk, I always say I talk about books. I talk about men and I talk about Mariah Carey that's really (Lesley laughs) the extent of what I have to contribute to social media and ...

Lesley Logan 14:25  

But we all need our pillars Kellee, we all need our pillars. (Kellee: We do, we do.) We are, these are our talking points. This is where I stand. (Kellee: Yeah) I love that you ... that convo is like better than like appetizer to the party um. Okay, so I have to ask this because you have you have a writer and name you write under and then that's what you are on social media. It can it can we talk about like, why did you come up with that name? Is there is there as a reason? And then also like, do you feel like you are a different person when you're her or like, is it just you with a different name?

Kellee Forkenbrock 15:00  

Okay, those are great questions. So, Eliza David is the combination of my two children's middle names. I have a teen son and a tween daughter. So Eliza is my daughter's middle name. David is my son's. And I just thought that that was such a homage to my children because, well, you know, my husband and I have known each other literally over almost 25 years. So he knows what it's like when I get into my busy mode, just like I know what he's like when he gets in his. But this was like new for my children when I started writing because now all of a sudden, Mommy has worked time but now there's this other element of writing and now that they're older, you know, and a little bit more self sufficient they understand but that was kind of my homage to my children to call myself Eliza David and as far as Eliza David like, is it a Beyonce, Sasha Fierce situation? Sometimes I think so. Because although what I write, I write what I would read. And I love right, I love steamy romance. I love rom coms. So that's what I write. So in a way, it's kind of still Kellee in there. But the creativity and the stories that I pull from, that's Eliza David really going in specilized, the David going into the minds going into the creative vault, to pull out these characters, to pull out these stories, to pull out the struggles. So it's kind of a combination of both I think.

Lesley Logan 16:23  

I love it. I love it so much. I think it's, I think it's great. And I think like, you know, there's a there's an author of the book Chatter and he talks about how a lot of people will you know, a lot of us actually have a Sasha Fierce of some kind, we might not call it a different name. But when we like go, "Okay Lesley, like you got this. Like that's like the same thing. It's like you being the other version of yourself that's, like, more organized, more confident reminding you to do something." So I think it's, I think it's really cool. And Stacey Abrams writes under a different name too, when I'm like, "Gosh..."

Kellee Forkenbrock 16:55  

Yes, I am reading, I am reading her books. I'm reading Secrets and Lies right now. I just finished Reckless. I am obsessed with the way she writes. I love that she writes like this romantic thriller stuff. So as Selena Montgomery is her writers name. So (Lesley: Yeah) highly recommended.

Lesley Logan 17:11  

Everyone you got to, I mean, I'm obsessed with her anyways. And then when I found and I was like, "Oh, I can I can take in more of her." (Lesley laughs)

Kellee Forkenbrock 17:19  

Mm-hmm. Yes. Highly recommended.

Lesley Logan 17:21  

Okay, so you had a private sector job. We made a decision to switch careers get sober, all these things. What was the impetus, was it slowly like, like over a years ago, and I need to change this? Was there like a moment? What made you do that? And also, like, why why a librarian? Like was that because you're writing?

Kellee Forkenbrock 17:42  

That's those are such a great questions. So my sober journey literally started from birth. I have in my family, alcohol was an issue. I grew up in a great family with people who loved and cared about me. But alcohol was an issue. And although I didn't start, I started drinking. I never touched any alcohol, literally until freshman orientation in college. And from then on, you know, I went to college in the late 90s. So from then on, it was just this binge drinking culture. Because people, at people who are younger than 40 really don't understand like, we were wild in the late 90s. We just didn't have social media and camera phones to catch it. So it was just really buck wild, like my college and and I went to college in a small town in, I will call Clinton Iowa, which is about 90 miles east of here. And, you know, I went into, I literally went from binge drinking culture and college, to Sex in the City, Martini culture in my 20s, to wine, mommy wine culture in my 30. So I hit all three of the phases of drinking. (Lesley laughs) And a part of that was because I grew up in an environment where alcohol was accessible, where it was considered just part of life. (Lesley: Yeah) And what hit for me was I always said to myself, especially as my kids got older, you know, I'm gonna stop drinking because, you know, when my daughter she's 10 now, but when she was a toddler, when I was still drinking, she would say, "Oh, it's mommy juice." You know, like, when I would pull out my wine, it was like she or if I was in a bad mood, if I was sitting down, if I was upset, she said, "Mommy, do you want some wine?" And it's like, wow, my child at a very young ages already acquainting me not in a good mood with needing wine. So I knew then that I needed to change but I wasn't ready. And during it was Labor Day, September 2nd 2019, was my first day of sobriety, I woke up it was Labor Day weekend, it was Sunday of the end of Labor Day weekend. And I looked in the mirror after two nights of binge drinking. And I just did not like the way I looked. And I told I said to myself, You know what, I just turned 46 months ago, my skin's a mess. I'm exhausted. And I was in Chicago at the time. So I had to drive me and my husband, my family back to Iowa City. And I just said, You know what, "I'm not going to drink" and on the ride back to Iowa City, my husband and I were talking. And I said, "You know, I think I'm gonna stop drinking." And I said, "You know, there's a bottle of Pinot Grigio in the back of my refrigerator, the refrigerator that's already opened, I should just finish that off." And I still come to finish them all. Came home and I saw it. And I thought, "No, I'm literally going to stop drinking right now." (Lesley: Wow!) And I have not had a drink since. And, for me, what really influences my journey is one, the health benefits, the you know, just, I lost eight pounds in my first month of sobriety, and I changed nothing else about my life, except not drinking. (Lesley: Wow!) That was, that was the only thing I changed, and I lost eight pounds. And it wasn't just the weight loss, but my skin looked better. I felt better. I had better sleep, I had a better attitude. And it really forced me because I was already doing therapy at the time. But it really, it made my therapy stick because now I really did the homework because I don't have the wine to, you know, help me work through life's problems. (Lesley: Yeah) I have to look my problems in the face stone sober, and figure out what my next plan of action is. And that has been one of the biggest benefits of sobriety for me thus far.

Lesley Logan 21:27  

I'm glad you said that because I've got to say, like, having having to work through the things. I think, if you can do it like that, if you can do it sober. If you can do it, there's so much more clarity. And also it makes you probably feel really unstoppable and stronger. Like you, I don't know, I'm maybe inferring. (Kellee: Yeah) I just feel like you, I think a lot of people's hang ups are because they don't do the work. And it's hard to do the work when there's a million things you're already doing. And then (Kellee: Yeah) there are many hours of some days that you are not really completely there because you've had something to drink. So you know,

Kellee Forkenbrock 22:02  

Yeah, it's incredible, like I would not have and then that leads me to your second question about becoming a librarian. So it was through getting sober, that during my third month of sobriety. I was done working at my employer, and I thought, "You know, what, what? I'm 40 years old, what is it that I really want to do with my life?" And I had already written several books by this time, and I thought, "Okay, I want to work with books." But I kept it just as at that, you know, I'd gone through my 20s and 30s, designing the career I wanted, and even saying, you know, counting out certain jobs because it didn't fit the exact picture I created in my mind. So this time, I took a minimalist approach, I said, "I just want to work with books." So if that means I'm working at Barnes and Noble, if that means I'm just going to be a writer for the rest of my life, if that means I'm going to work at RR Donnelley and make phone books for the rest of my life. That's what I'm going to do. And I saw there (Lesley laughs) was a part time job at the library.

Lesley Logan 22:09  

So glad you're not making phone books.

Kellee Forkenbrock 22:59  

I hope, I'm glad too because that would have been a short career. And I started part time at two libraries. Because I told my husband two part time, part time jobs equals one full time job, right, right. He didn't really believe that. But oh, well. Those two part time jobs, one of them turned into the full time job that I do today. And that's how I became a librarian. And at first I thought, you know, I've always loved libraries. I didn't know that I could be a librarian. If you asked me five years ago when they said, "No, I love libraries, but not so much." And here I am, I've just wrapped up my first year of grad school, I went back to school after 22 years away, I got my undergrad in 2000. So this was my, this has been my first time back in the classroom, in almost in over 21 years. So and now I'm heading into my second one, I, I couldn't have crafted a better I spent so many years, my 20s and 30s, in particular crafting my career. And this by far, has been the best professional decision of my life. I am just so glad. And I don't think I would have reached this conclusion if I wasn't sober.

Lesley Logan 24:17  

I also, I love the way you're saying this, though, because I think so many of us like you said, you're like I cry, I picked a job based on the picture that I thought it would be. And like we all I think, I think I think people in their 40s and 50s are still doing this. Like I think people ... (Kellee: Yeah) they want so much certainty. So they're like, "Okay, this person who is the CEO of this company, here's what they do before this, and then before that, and before that." And like I had a one of the girls I was teaching, she was 14 at the time and she's like, "I'm going to go to Stanford," and I said, "Okay, do we have any other options we want to apply to just like just as backups?" "No, I'm applying to Stanford." I'm like, "Okay." She's like, "This is how I'm going to do it." And she's like listing off all the extracurricular activities she's doing, all the clubs she's doing, all the classes she's taking, and then on this summer school to do this. And she's 14. And I was just like, I looked at her mom, "I really hope you have a backup plan."

Kellee Forkenbrock 25:10  

Yeah. You know it's uncertainty because groundlessness is scary. The ide... and Buddhist principles talk about groundlessness a lot, the ability to embrace uncertainty. And I think that especially after 2020, all of us have learned that embracing uncertainty is really the key to sanity. It truly is because you're going to drive yourself mad, trying to plan out every intricate part of your life. And that and just like that 14 year old girl, she's, she's a girl after my own heart, because that's what I did in my 20s. I said, "No." I even planned my children. Okay, my children are exactly five years apart. And I planned it that way because and, I planned ... I actually read one of those books about how to plan the gender of your child.

Lesley Logan 25:59  

Oh, did you do sex positions? Because there's ...

Kellee Forkenbrock 26:01  

Yeah, I did the I did the the ovulation. (Lesley: Okay) Because it's like if you have sex before ovulation versus after ovulation. And it worked (Lesley laughs) because I got my girl, but still, like, that's just how just analytical I was about it. And now in my 40s, I think the girl and the woman in my 20s would look at the woman in my 40s and be like, "Oh, you don't have a plan B?" "Oh wait a minute. What's the plan? Where are we going? What are we doing?" I have really did this and but I still I mean, I still have my moments. I mean, I have two children. So I have a teenage son, I have a tween daughter, I still have my moments of control. But I recognize that whenever I'm in those moods, that it's just about control. And what is control about, fear. You know? It's, those are interconnected. So being recognizing that, when you participate in it, is really key as well.

Lesley Logan 26:55  

Yeah. And like, it's hard to participate in that and have like, even a conversation with yourself about like, "Why am I having this? Why am I controlling this right now?" If you are not in tune with yourself in some way, whether it is through sobriety, or just even taking time to learn about who you are, and (Kellee: Yeah) what activates you, what makes you tick, like, and it's so interesting. I grew up going to the library, like we couldn't afford books, we couldn't buy or like we could go to the bookstore, and that we were allowed to read, but we didn't get to take them. (Kellee: Right right) So but we go to the library as much as we wanted. And, and I, I think that they're just such a special place. And the people who always work with them are such, they're always like such good hearted people like you don't go work at the library if you don't like books and people.

Kellee Forkenbrock 27:43  

Exactly, exactly. At least I hope not.

Lesley Logan 27:46  

I hope not. I hope... So you, you got this amazing promote, you're like you're the you're the head librarian now and you decided to go back to grad school. Is that something you've always wanted to do? Is it for your writing? Is it for, is it for your career as a librarian, like what made you decide to do that? Because I think a lot of people would have that on their list and then think because of their age or because of their kids or because of all the all the all the responsibilities, they can't do it. So what made you say, "I can do this."

Kellee Forkenbrock 28:12  

Well, when I when I became public services librarian, I thought to myself, "Let me see how this goes for the first year." You know, I really love the people that I work with. I love my director. And I love the environment, especially as an extrovert who loves being around people. And after a year, I started thinking, maybe I could go to grad school, and I talked to my husband about it, my husband, you know, he has his master's in his field. And, you know, he was completely on board. But then I started thinking, you know, the fear sets in. And I think that's what happens with a lot of us is that we think about these things that we want to do. And then that voice of fear cat... catches in and says, "Oh, no, no, no, you have this, you have that, you have this, you have that." And it's hard to discern between the voice of fear and the voice of reason. Because the voice of fear and the voice of reason can sound very much alike. And what I had to do is think, "Okay, why am I going to grad school? Why am I interested in going to grad school? Is it because I want to say that I have a master's? Is it because I feel like I'm not adequate enough in my job because I'm a librarian. Who has this is my first year of experience. Do I feel like I need to beef up my own experience? What are the reasons?" And and your 'why' can be valid because it's your 'why'. So I once I understood what my 'why' was, that's what fueled me to apply, to get the scholarships that I had got. I've gotten two scholarships, two academic scholarships as a result of my career. I'm doing my practicum with Iowa City poetry next fall, and it's really introduced me to so much, it's so much more than the classroom work. It's so much more than the academic side. It's been the connections I've been able to make since I started in grad school, and how I use those to fuel my career, so they're all interconnected. So knowing that my why is connected to my, to my sole purpose, which is to be of service, and to be around books all day. That is literally what I like, I love helping people and I love being around books. So that helped me fuel my decision to go to grad school. So I think for most of us, especially for women, we got to get out of them voice of you know, those voices of fear, and really get down to what your 'why' is like, "Why are you doing this?" And once you have that, that's going to be the fuel that content that takes you through your journey. 

Lesley Logan 30:40  

You're you're spot on. And it's true, because because there's there's going to be a lot of different things that come up along the way. And if you are not clear on why you're doing it, you are not going to be able to face a fork in the road, you're gonna get stuck at it, you're going to, well you're not going to do the thing and you'll let fear win. Because you're you aren't were aware of your why and it's not strong enough to go, "Yeah, it's gonna be scary as fuck, but I'm going to do it anyways," you know. I applied to grad school when I was in college, and I had to write this 60 page paper. (Kellee: Ah, oh!) And I, like to graduate my, my college my degree and I and so the this letter came in the mail after I turned that paper and I had to pull two all nighters and it was horrible this thing, and I was like, "I don't even care this letter says I am not. I'm not going to another class. I am not writing another paper" because of course, my grad thing was in writing, it was in communications. And I was like, "No, I don't even care." And I just throw it away didn't even open it. I'm imagining it was a probably a, "No, not at this time anyways," becuase (Kellee: Right) like grad school taking, taking a girl just out of college hasn't worked anything. But I'm also so grateful because it led me into what I do now. And I think we it's like that being open to what what you can't, what you couldn't picture because when someone says I should be a Pilates instructor, I was like, "I could do that." It's kind of like when you would just that's what made me think, and (Kellee: Yeah) be like, "I could I'm going to be around books. Oh, I could be a librarian." Like, it's like, I it's like, it's like, I don't know, and maybe it's our generation. I mean, I'm, I'm an elder millennial, but, but like, I feel like I grew up with parents who like they did this job. And then they stayed in that job forever and ever and ever. And so you had to pick your career. And that was like your career. And so I went to college for communication. And I was like, "Oh, that's what I have to do." And it's like, so it's like, "You can be a Pilates instructor." And I'm like, "Really? I could?" (Lesley laughs)

Yeah, it's weird, because we grow up with us, our parents mean well. I mean, I say this, from the seat of being a parent of a teen who is starting to look at what he wants to do with his life. And in the knee jerk reaction, even in my more enlightened state, my knee jerk reaction for my child is, "Go to college, pick a career, go to college get serious," like that is still my knee jerk reaction. And I know that when I say that, I mean well, and our parents meant well, too, because that's what they know. But I know I don't want my children to have to wait as long as I had to wait (Lesley: Mm-hmm) for the light bulb to come on and say, "Hey, no, no, no, do what it is that's in your heart to do." And, and I think that's sometimes in this very realistic concrete world, doing what's in your heart and soul. And what you're meant to do can be a little woowoo. And people think you're living in a fantasy land. And I probably would have, I know, I would have been that person 20 years ago, even 10 years ago, to be like, you're going to stop working at this nice corporate job?

Kellee Forkenbrock 32:39  

It's like all benefits (Kellee: to go) and all ... 

To go be with books, to do books all day. And the great thing is that I'm grateful. But then on the other hand, I'm grateful for that time, I'm grateful for the 20 plus years I spent, you know, climbing this, you know, corporate ladder, or what have you because those skills now helped me in my job, those management skills that I honed those marketing skills that I honed, I use those every day in my current position. The only difference is I'm doing something that is really from the heart. So I'm I'm taking all of those practical skills that I learned in my career and being grateful for that journey. Because if I didn't have that journey, I would not be in the position I was in today.

Lesley Logan 34:37  

You know, thank you for saying that because I think a lot of people go, "Gosh, I should have done that instead." And not like maybe like, "I shouldn't have wasted those years. I should have just done this thing." And it's like everything that you experienced all the jobs you did because you thought this is going to be the right job for me or this is going to be the most secure thing I can do. All those things even the people we dated that were like, "Gosh, that was a dumb decision." (Kellee: Oh, don't get me started.) (Lesley and Kellee laughs) I say all the time if I hadn't been my ex I never would be with my husband. Because if I hadn't met with like super secure lawyer person with all the check all the boxes, all the things I would never have been like, "Yeah, let me date a musician. That sounds like a good idea." (Lesley and Kellee laughs) I was like, "You know what, let me just tell you security and a good career doesn't mean anything. Give me the musician. Hold on, let me, let me check out him." (Kellee: Yeah) But um, but I think, you know, every experience we have sets us up for the next one. And it's like you, yeah, okay, maybe if your mom had told you, "You should be a librarian, Kellee. Like you love books." Maybe ... " (Kellee: Oh, I wish she did it.) It maybe you ... (Kellee: I wish she did.) and you wouldn't have but maybe wouldn't have been that where you are and doing the way you had. (Kellee: Yeah) Or maybe even like, "Oh, you know why, I really should try this corporate thing" because it feels like you pro... like now, you know, like, this is a job you want. (Kellee: Yeah) You know what I mean? Like, it's more, there's (Kellee: Yeah) more certainty and more in there. So I think, you know, we can't let we can't, we can't be sad about the experiences we didn't have earlier, because all the ones we (Kellee: Yeah) did have really do set us up to be where we are and have the experience we're having now. And, and so I'm glad you mentioned, like your past job has allowed you to be more successful and even have more probably more impact at your current job because of those leadership and management skills, you know.

Kellee Forkenbrock 36:17  

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in my position as Public Services Librarian, one of the things I do is, you know, I do some community outreach. So I bring, I'm bringing with me 20 plus years of community experience throughout the corridor. 20 plus years of meeting and engaging business owners and creatives and, and cor... and organizations, I'm bringing those connections with me. And what's more, is that I'm using those previous connections to build new ones. So never ever discount your journey. And that's something I have to continue to remind myself of, like, even in my happiest days with my work. I'm always like, damn, I wish I had, you know, done this earlier. But then I have to catch myself and say, if I had done this earlier, you know, you know, I wouldn't have had that bulk of experience to buoy my career like I can now so (Lesley: Yeah) never ever discount your journey.

Lesley Logan 37:13  

Oh, I think I think that it's like, I think we should all put that on a bumper sticker. So on a t-shirt, on a book. So Okay, before we take a break, I feel like I have to ask a librarian. Favorite books like books that like that, like you're like, if someone's like, "I need to read something." Like what are your go to is right now aside from your own?

Kellee Forkenbrock 37:34  

Yeah. Well, I have to say, my favorite, favorite writer is Alice Walker. I had the privilege of watching her live via zoom, but she she just released a collection of her letters. But my favorite book from Alice Walker - Is In Our Mother's Gardens. And it is a collection of essays and letters that she wrote in the name of what what's coined as womanism, which is black feminism, but I invite everyone, especially every woman to read 'In Our Mother's Garden', and it is a fantastic, fantastic book, another book that I love. That always shocks people because they didn't know that this writer would write something racy, but it's the name of the book is called Wifey. And it's written by Judy Blume. Yes, that Judy Blume. So Judy Blume has, you know, this great career of, you know, Dear God, It's Me Margaret, and all of these wonderful children's books, but she also writes some adult books and Wifey is a fantastic book about a housewife, a disgruntled housewife whose husband is cheating on her. And she begins an affair with a motorcycle, a motorcycle man who just visits her home and (Lesley laughs) the untoward thing. And yes, it is written by the Judy Blume and I have contacted Judy Blume on Twitter and told her how much I love that book. And she tweeted me back it was like one of the best moments on social media but she's like, "Thank you. I don't care enough about Wifey. But thank you so very much that makes me feel so good." So I made Judy Blume feel great about that book. So Wifey by Judy Blume is like one of my favorite pieces of fiction that is ...

Lesley Logan 39:26  

I'm so excited, I'm so excited to read this because I miss Judy Blume. Like I like I read every I mean I've been sitting on the shelf, the library (Kellee: Yeah) and I'm like waiting for the book that I hadn't read to come back yet. (Lesley laughs)

Kellee Forkenbrock 39:38  

Yes, get you some Wifey. I would recommend all of her books. She also has a book called Summer Sisters that is an adult fiction novel. Her adult fiction is like it, so I would highly recommend you get some of that out of the box.

Lesley Logan 39:53  

All right. I'm excited Alice Walker and the adult versions every one of your very favorite author who helped you through your teenage years ... (Kellee: Yeah) She's back for all of us. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I you're amazing. I have to have you back. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna hear how we can read all your books and also your be it till you see it action items.

All right, Kellee, what do you, where can people find you, follow you go to the library? (Lesley and Kellee laughs)

Kellee Forkenbrock 40:22  

Well, you can find me on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. My Facebook and Twitter are both Eliza David. So you just look that up in the search bar. And you can find my author page there, as well as my Twitter, which is @elizadwrites. And then on Facebook, I mean on Instagram, I'm under the handle @writegirlproblems, write as a w r i t e girl problems. So you can find me there as well. You can also find my blog at elizadavid.com. And yeah, that's how you can get in touch with me. I am highly accessed a little too accessible online. But I love social media, I love you know, checking people out, I love checking, you know, posting about myself and what I'm doing. So feel free to contact me on all of those platforms.

Lesley Logan 41:09  

I love it. And are your books on your site? Or where do they find your books?

Kellee Forkenbrock 41:14  

Oh, yes, my books on Amazon. So if you just google Eliza David, right now all of my books except for my first book, which is free on Amazon. The rest of my Kindle books are all 99 cents each. If you love steamy romance, I've written, I have the Cougarette which is a six book series about a 43 year old woman falling in love with a 26 year old man. I have 'The Follow' which is a trio of books. And it is about an R&B star who is suffering from a sex addiction. And he falls in love with his social media manager. So it's about their relationship ... (Lesle: You really do love social.) I do, don't I? I'm ridiculous. And then I'm in several anthologies, which are also under my name. Those won't be 99 cents because those are published by other folks, but I'm in Best Women's Erotica, volume four. I'm in the naughty librarians of collections, (Lesley laughs) several collections. Yes, yes, I know right. So if you like this steamy romance with a side of great humor. Absolutely, look me up on Amazon at Eliza. Just look up Eliza David.

Lesley Logan 42:25  

Perfect. Okay, this is amazing. I can't wait. I read too many business books. So I'm like, very excited for those. (Kellee: Oh yeah.) I'm going to switch ...

Kellee Forkenbrock 42:33  

Give me that break. You deserve that break. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 42:36  

So we asked everybody this bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us?

Kellee Forkenbrock 42:44  

All right. Number one, learn to say thank you. Learn to say thank you. I say it out loud. When I, if I see like, if I see like an ex, posting something that's just not cool. I say, "Thank you for delivering me from that relationship with that person." If I'm having a disagreement with my mother, "I say thank you for for allowing me the ability to even argue with my mama, that she is still here with me that I can have that dialogue. Even if it's if it's difficult in the moment." Just learn to say 'thank you'. That's, that will be my number one thing, just really practice gratitude and every step of your way, it's hard to practice gratitude, when we're in those tough times. But know that when you're in those tough times, the universe is trying to teach you something. God, whoever you believe in is trying to teach you something in that moment. Be grateful for that lesson. And be grateful for that breath that you're breathing that you can even engage that lesson because a lot of people can't right now. So say 'thank you', just say 'thank you' out loud, scare people. Say, 'thank you'. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. (Lesley and Kellee laughs)

Lesley Logan 43:57  

Oh my God. Thank you. Oh my, Kellee, thank you so much. This is a delight. I'm just I'm so glad we've met and I hope that my cross country tour friendly back through Iowa, have to see Rachel anyways. But I would love to meet you in real life because you are just (Kellee: Absolutely) your your energy and enthusiasm and love. Like, it's like, I know we're not in real life right now. But like it is contagious. I can't stop smiling like I've just really enjoyed an entire conversation. Everyone listening, how are you going to use these tips in your life? Let us know, tag @writegirlpilates and the @be_it_pod on Instagram. Screenshot this, send it to a friend like text a friend the link if you have no idea how to share from the podcast world, but let them know that they can, that they should listen to this if they are needing to hear that somebody else ... totally changed their career and change their life and got sober and whatever out of this that made me think of a friend just send it to them. You don't have to say 'hello', you could just send them the link and people know what to do with those. So, thank you Kellee for being here. Thank you everyone for listening. Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 45:37  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 45:48  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 45:52  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 46:01  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 46:13  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

How have past rejections continued to influence the path you are on? What if you used the rejection instead to guide where you are headed? Listen in for LL and Brads thoughts on everything from turning rejection to success, distinguishing your balance role models, and defining a “pause”. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Updates and challenges for OPC
• Defining a “Pause” and acknowledging obstacles 
• Naming the role models for balance 
• From rejection to success
• Letting the Why lead you to the How

Episode References/Links:

• The Body Keeps the Score
• Instagram
• Top Travel and Teaching Blog by Roxy

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad Crowell and I are going to dig into this persistent convo with Roxy Menzies in our last episode. Oh my God, I love her. If you haven't yet, listen to interview, feel free to pause this now, go back, listen to that one, come back on over and join us on this or listen to this, then listen to that. It's okay. There's nothing there's no perfect order. I am really excited because a couple things have happened. We have wrapped up our Control Your Balance Challenge, which was a lot of fun. We've had so many people sign up. And I just really love helping people realize that you don't have to actually get the exercise, you can actually replace the exercise with any exercise that builds you up along the way.

Brad Crowell 1:28  

But this one was still a fun one to dig into. I mean, this is like one of the the, I always just compare it to doing a handstand for Yogi's. Right? (Lesley: Yeah) Like that's like the, the, the pinnacle that's like the you can do everything from that point. Not necessarily true. But that's what everybody thinks about, "Oh, man, you know, you're not a good Yogi until you've nailed this move. We tried to pick the same one that people have that view for Pilates, (Lesley: Yeah) which isn't true. But still, it's the big, it's like a big pose people avoid. 

Lesley Logan 1:56  

Yeah, either either scares people and they never do it, which is fine. If you're never like, there might be reasons why you are never going to do it. There was a person Instagram was like, she used to love it. And now because of something going on her body, she can't do it anymore. That's fine. (Brad: Yeah, yeah.) Because I believe it's brave and courageous to just replace that exercise with another one you can do. So that's what we really help people do like whether they if they whether or not they did that exercise, control your balance, control balance off, they have now an exercise they can do during that time to get them there. It's like it's like people doing handstand on a wall (Brad: Right) or doing what someone where you put your feet, L pose ... (Brad: Yeah. L pose.) Like you get to do that instead so you don't feel like, "Oh, I have to sit this one out." Nope, you keep moving. So

Brad Crowell 2:35  

Well either way, I mean, having, you know, all the community in the Facebook group, and then everybody on Instagram, you know, really supporting each other. And, you know, encouraging each (Lesley: Yeah) other to work through this challenging pose was a lot of fun.

Lesley Logan 2:53  

Yeah, it was a lot of fun and thanks to my OPC teachers, Rachel, Tammy and Mindi for helping me encourage everyone and give them tips and strategies along the way. We are also packing the van backup because we are leaving for Momentum Fest.

Brad Crowell 3:07  

So if you want to join us for the Full Body in 15 challenge, just click the link in the show notes here. And you'll be directed to get on the waitlist for that.

Lesley Logan 3:16  

Yeah, that one's really fun. It is a full body workout in 15 minutes. All you need is a mat so you don't have to have access to reformer like our last one.

Brad Crowell 3:23  

Yeah, and if you're if you're new to Pilates, that one is perfect for you. We're going to (Lesley: Yeah) be starting with the foundations.

Lesley Logan 3:28  

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so clearly I'm really excited about our trip. (Brad: Yeah) I'm really excited because this is, so we love Momentum Fest. If you listened in our last recap, we talked about how much we love Momentum Fest. If you haven't heard that, go back and listen to it. But really what I'm so excited about is we have made it a new tradition on our way to Momentum Fest. We take a little pause, (Brad: Yeah) and we like see some sights, then we work and then we see some sights on my home. So this time we are gonna go we're not camping. But we are staying in the Mesa Verde cabins overlooking this incredible National Park. We're gonna get a nice pause. A lovely relaxation. (Brad: Yeah.) Some hikes in. And we're gonna and then on our way back. I think we're gonna try to dig up our own crystals. I think (Brad: That's a...) I think Brad is researching that.) 

Brad Crowell 4:10  

I'm working on that in, so the Mesa Verde National Park is in Colorado. And if you haven't seen pictures of that, just Google that really quick. They have like a full blown city was carved into the Butte, the site of a Butte by the first tribes here. Back in the day, like I don't know, thousand years ago here (Lesley: Yeah) and I didn't know that we had that in the United States. I have been chasing temples all around the world. And then we had it in our own backyard. (Lesley: Yeah) So we're staying there and then on the way back in Utah, we're working on hopefully finding a spot where we can possibly dig up some crystals ourselves. (Lesley: I know.) That'd be really fun.

Lesley Logan 4:52  

I know. So anyways, which kind of leads into this week's audience question.

Brad Crowell 4:56  

Oh, great. Yeah, so that question would be, "How do you take a pause when you don't have time or money?"

Lesley Logan 5:08  

Yeah. So I am really glad that this question was asked, because first of all, it takes a lot of vulnerability. Because it (Brad: Yeah) takes it takes you acknowledging that, you know, you need the pause. And also you acknowledging the obstacles that are in your way from doing it. (Brad: Sure.) And part of those obstacles are not going to, I think some people would say, "That's the story you're telling yourself." And I can understand that the stories we tell ourselves, I also think that that is a little flippant, and not acknowledging that some people, and I was one of those people. I didn't if I had the time, I didn't have the money. And if I had the money, I didn't have the time. (Brad: Sure.) And so if you find yourself in that position, we've been there, sometimes we're there. And so I really am grateful for this question, because I think you're not the only one, wondering how to take a pause when there are restrictionsin your ability to do that. So,

Brad Crowell 5:57  

So, I think first we need to define a pause. (Lesley: Yeah. Well, what's the pause to you?) Well, I think in the context, here, we were just talking about our drive. So obviously, that requires the ability to take a day off. (Lesley: Yeah) A full day off. Right. So that may not be an option. And so I think that we can change the definition of what we consider a pause. I think once a year, getting a true proper vacation, disconnecting from the way we run our lives and whatnot is really important to do. And maybe that's camping. And (Lesley: Yeah) because that's, like financially viable. If that ...

Lesley Logan 6:39  

That's what my parents did, we couldn't take vacations, we didn't have, I think they got us to Disneyland once. But like (Brad: Yeah) we went camping because it was $5 a night.

Brad Crowell 6:47  

Right. Yeah, same for us. We might, I grew up absolutely camping up and down the East Coast. Because my parents didn't really have money to take us the places.

Lesley Logan 6:59  

I'm picturing some of our listeners right now and going, "No way guys that cannot be the answer to my question."

Brad Crowell 7:04  

No, but I think the idea there is it's something that's not financially, like a huge financial burden. You know, but but what I was gonna say is, I think it's important to take a a true, like multiple day disconnect from the life that we've built for ourselves once a year. But your disconnect your pause could be much smaller than that.

Lesley Logan 7:27  

Yeah. And also so I think I love that question you posed like, what is a pause? I think first of all, that is like the definition of success. You need to define what a pause is for you first, (Brad: Yeah.) And then you need to look at the time and or money aspect of that pause. For me, I strip it down to a pause is you can't get a hold of me. I'm not expected to do what I do. Like if I don't want to do my morning routine. I don't need to do it. If I don't want to look at my email. I'm not expected to do it. Like a pause is everyone knows. LL is unreachable in this moment. And, and sometimes it's two hours. You know, sometimes it's like literally, (Brad: Right) like, my week got too busy. And I'm like, you know what, if I have to do that thing on Saturday, guess what? Friday afternoon, I'm done at one. Do not ask me to do anything. And I put a pause in there. So they don't have to be multiple, I do agree that everyone needs once a year where you really do get out of your like really get out of it. We we've definitely had the times where we've had the money but not the time or the time but not the money. (Brad: Sure.) And so here are some ideas for you, swap houses with a friend like (brad: ohh) literally go like go swap houses. So it's like an Airbnb, but you didn't have to deal with it. You can check in whenever you want. You can do, you can bring a dog if you want. You can have more ...

Brad Crowell 8:37  

Did you say swapped dogs? No, no.

Lesley Logan 8:39  

No, no. Swap houses. Swap houses. Some other things I would say is like, you know what we're doing to go Momentum Fest. We have to work on Momentum Fest. So that's not a pause. But we can actually make the time there. And the time back a pause ...

Brad Crowell 8:51  

Yeah, we can add an extra day to our drive one day on each end so that we can have time for ourselves. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 8:58  

Yeah. So and also, like, just when we're recording this podcast, I, I did not have five days in a row to pause. There was work that needed to get done, like recording this podcast. So I had a couple days paused. And then I had a day where I'm working here. And then we're going into pause again, (Brad: Yeah) like and it's so, just being clear on what that is ...

Brad Crowell 9:18  

For me when I was working my job, which was really high stress all the time. And it was like a lot of difficult energy to be around. I would take a pause every single day during my lunch break, and I would walk twice around this massive block. First off, it gave the dog the chance to get out and walk around. But also it was a, it was a relief from the intensity of the surroundings that I was in. And it was my moment of like big, (Lesley: Yeah) big deep breath so that I could prepare myself to go finish the rest of the day.

Lesley Logan 9:51  

I love that. So I think first of all, first thing figure out what a pauses is for you. Second, figure out what is like get creative. Maybe it's you go on a hike in a different hike each week that you've never done before, even (Brad: Sure) each month, maybe like, I really do think a pause is like you don't have like people can't get a hold of you like that, to me is a true pause. (Brad: Yeah) Leave your phone behind and go on a walk around the block. Just some other things, there are utility bills and bills, you have to pay every single month, I highly recommend putting them on a credit card that you pay off each month for utilities that allows you to get points, that allows you to apply those to hotel rooms and flights. (Brad: Sure) Because if you don't have money, or like the money aspect, a lot of the times you see me a hotel room 'points baby' points. (Brad: Right) And that's because, you know, I, I need I need to change my surroundings to get creative. And yeah, I don't always have the means to change them with with actual money, but you're always paying your Netflix bill, you're always paying your utility bills, like just put them on one of those things, and then rack them up and then treat yourself.

Brad Crowell 10:55  

Yeah, and I was gonna say, you know, changing your environmentc a lot of times. I used to do this all the time, I would go work from a coffee shop, (Lesley: Yeah) you know. And it might ...

Lesley Logan 11:06  

It's not a pause, but it's a way of pausing.

Brad Crowell 11:09  

It did, it was a it was a it was a change up of my work environment. (Lesley: Yeah) So, you know, and that, you know, still cost you 15 bucks or whatever if you've had a sandwich and a coffee, but you could sit there for a couple hours and you're (Lesley: You're changing environment.) changing environment.

Lesley Logan 11:22  

So homework, I want to hear from you listeners. (Brad: Yeah.) What is your definition of a pause? (Brad: Yeah.) And then what are you going to do in the next three weeks to make that version happen.

Brad Crowell 11:34  

In the next three weeks, literally making a decision (Lesley: Yeah) today that you're going to (Lesley: Yeah) incorporate a pause in. (Lesley: Yeah) We want to know about your pause.

Lesley Logan 11:41  

Yeah. Tag us in your pause. (Brad: Yeah) Yeah. I love that. (Brad: Yeah) Oh it's a fun game, we just made up. Okay. (Brad laughs)

Brad Crowell 11:49  

Okay, now let's talk about Roxy Menzies. From traveling the world teaching and presenting and performing, Roxy is now back in her hometown of Toronto, as a freelance writer and a storyteller in the realm of health and wellness. She is a mother of a cute rambunctious toddler (Lesley: Oh, I love her.) and is making it her mission to guide, educate and create safe spaces for individuals to explore their own movements.

Lesley Logan 12:16  

Okay, one thing I love that she said is naming the role models of balance. So this is, she was we were talking about balance at the time and like finding balance and as like, "How do you find balance, you're a mom?"

Brad Crowell 12:25  

When you say balance, you know, like a work life, work life balance (Lesley: Yeah) kind of thing? (Lesley: Yeah.) Yeah, yeah.

Lesley Logan 12:29  

Life work balance is more alphabetical. And also more intentional. But yeah, she so she talked about naming her role models of balance and like, what what, like Obama, Michelle Obama do and like all this stuff, and I think (Brad: Right) like insert any, anything you're wanting more of in your life, and then pick role models for, let's say, what was I listening too? Maybe I was talking to someone. Anyways, oh, there was something there or someone's like, I have a board of directors, oh, I was listening to another podcast and they're talking about Napoleon Hill. And he had his own, like, board of directors that he would talk to, they're not a real board. They're like a made up like mastermind (Brad laughs) of like people and it was like Napoleon Hill. So from, like, 100 years ago, so it was like, like, hoover and rows of and I'm gonna go like people (Brad: Right) like, like, think about who are the people that you're trying to aspire to have? What they have in that thing? Balance, success, love, money, mindset, things like that. And then have those people like actually, like, think about, like, what would they do? So that would help guide you and what you can do. I fucking loved it. I thought it was great.

Brad Crowell 13:33  

I love that. I but I also think the role model, you know, she was saying, "I'm a mom, and I'm a writer, and I'm a teacher and a spouse and I'm," what are all the all the things, right? And she's like, "I, I decided, I needed a role model." And so she chose Michelle Obama. And what a role model, right? Because, (Lesley:Yeah) wow, First Lady, being a mom, to the Pres... you know, like married to the President and raising kids in the White House with (Lesley: How does she balance?) like, how could you have any balance in that in that role? And, you know, they they made it through eight years of that and that's incredible. So what an inspiration, what an inspirational person to choose as a role model. So, you know, you can name your own role model too and and then you can be ...

Lesley Logan 14:24  

lt's like Hazel Ortega, like (Brad: Yeah) J.Lo is her, J.Lo is her mentor. Like ...

Yeah. J.Lo is her mentor. Sure. Exactly.

Yeah. I loved it. I think it's great. So anyways, I'm into it. And I think we should all be like creating our own like, little board of people that we're going to act as if.

Brad Crowell 14:40  

Yeah, one thing I love that she said was that you will be rejected in life more than not. (Lesley: Yes, that is so true.) And I never think I've ever really thought about it, although it's quite logical because I'm such a huge fan of of getting rejected to success.

Lesley Logan 15:00  

That's so and everything's a numbers game anyways, and like (Brad: Right) you put it, you couldn't keep, you think you're busy now, you couldn't keep up with all the, all the, all the getting everything you ever wanted all the time, you just couldn't keep up with it, it wouldn't be possible.

Brad Crowell 15:14  

Right. Totally well, even even so just the idea that we will be rejected more than than accepted. She was specifically talking about it as a writer and submitting her articles and, you know, connecting with, with the editors and all that kind of stuff. And she, I mean, just saying this out loud, should be a relief, right? Like, "Hey, the here's, here's the reality, will be rejected more than not." And so it kind of allows you to reframe that and look at it in a different way with a different mindset. (Lesley: Yeah) Where, okay, cool it, you know, yes, this probably sucked in the moment, and I'm really disappointed and frustrated. But it's, you know, this is not, this is this is normal.

Lesley Logan 16:02  

Yeah. And also, you're gonna reject more things than you're gonna say, 'yes', so just like, (Brad: Sure) just know, like, you know, I have to, I have to reject people who want to be on a pod. And I'm like, I feel like, I feel like an asshole because I know how it feels to be rejected. But also, that's part of the lesson that we all, the rejection is part of the lessons we have to learn in this life to get us to the next thing we have to do, and we just have to reframe how we think about it.

Brad Crowell 16:23  

Yeah, yeah. And she specifically said, she allows herself to feel the feels. And I thought that was really cool because, you know, she said, "I don't do it publicly but I leave myself some space to get frustrated and be angry and say, 'I'm so upset about this', and then move on." (Lesley: Yeah) You know, but feeling the feels is important because well I mean, I know you have spoken about this before, but, you know, if you don't allow yourself to actually feel it and express it, it doesn't mean you didn't, it's just going to be bottled up inside. (Lesley: Yeah.) Right. And, and like, (Lesley: Yeah.) paying attention to that frustration, that stress, that fear, that anger, that whatever, in, you know, for a moment in the moment, will really help you work through that energy.

Lesley Logan 17:18  

Yeah, and, and, y'all, you don't have I'm not the science behind this. But there is a book called The Body Keeps the Score for a reason. You have to feel your feelings, otherwise your body is going to hold on to it. So just (Brad: Yeah) it's important. Okay, I love her. Let's go on to the BE IT action items.

Brad Crowell 17:37  

All right. So what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items, can we take away from your convo with Roxy Menzies? I will start off she, she said, "Get really clear on your why, and your what?" Now, of course, she again, the context here is she's becoming a (Lesley: She is a writer.) she is a writer, so but she, like in the process of becoming a writer. She said, it didn't start off that way. Where she was like, "I'm going to pursue this as a career goal." And then suddenly, there was like, a light bulb moment of like, "Oh, this could be an actual decision for me to pursue." And so she began to get clear on she on the 'what', like, she loves writing, always enjoyed writing, and then started writing, even though she's not like, didn't go to school for it or any of that stuff. But once she landed that first gig, it was like, "Oh, this could be a real thing." And then the 'why', you know, for her just guessing here, but she can be home with her, you know, two and a half year old (Lesley: Yeah) or be traveling anywhere on the world because I know that she used to do a lot.

Lesley Logan 18:49  

And she can influence more people with her words, and she could with her teaching and so like I what I loved about this too is like, notice the word how isn't in there? I think most people (Brad: Right) focus on "How am I going to do that?" But if you can't but how everything I learned the 'how' comes, you have to focus on the 'why,' you're doing it and the what it is you're doing and the 'how' kind of reveals itself.

Brad Crowell 19:12  

Yeah. Wow, that that, I'm going to take notes on that for me, (Lesley: Yeah) for me personally, that's, that's some ...

Lesley Logan 19:18  

Oh, made us influence Brad right there. (Brad laughs) All right, what about you? I mean, my biggest takeaway is don't let the rejection keep you from other goals. So this kind of goes on to like, she fills her feelings and then she moves on. I really have seen too often and myself included, we get rejected, and then it stops us from working on other things. (Brad: Oh, shuts shuts us down.) This is like a big extreme version of this as the people who get rejected and they just don't leave their house again. Or they like, do you know what I mean? Like they stopped showering and they stopped taking care of themselves but like (Brad: Sure) like even on like you might not be that person because you have other things you have to do that keep you getting out the door. But I think a lot of people get rejected and then they just don't put themselves out there again. (Brad: Yeah.) And so like, like they talked to someone at a coffee shop about doing something because it's like, no, and like, it didn't work. And it's like, well, it didn't work in that moment. It doesn't mean it doesn't work ever, you know, and I think reject... rejection, as you mentioned, is like it's gonna happen. And I'm really hoping to get the author of Rejection Proof on here someday, you know, because it he, he really inspired me. I had a lot of noes from a lot of people that I found really important and influential on my life that I actually know. And they told me 'no', and I, so I hadn't reached back out to them. Well, it's been a year, I have 100 episodes, we're in the top 2.5% of podcasts in the world, like, they should want to be on my show. (Brad: Sure.) So I should go ask them again. And and so, you know, I realized then that their rejection had stopped me from pursuing them again. (Brad: Yeah.) And or pursuing people at their level again. And so I think it's really important that we don't let a rejection of something in a moment stop us from other moments and other things.

Brad Crowell 20:57  

Yeah. You know, and I think, well, I think you summed that up, actually, really nicely. I was, I just wanted to say before we sign off here, when Roxy was on the episode before this, she mentioned the course that she wrote for Profitable Pilates, (Lesley: Yeah) and if writing for a publication is of any interest to you, and that's something that you know, to actually go get paid for. Wow, what a course she has, it's incredibly detailed. She goes through a lot of the ...

Lesley Logan 21:32  

It is the one of the best course we have on our site. Hands down.

Brad Crowell 21:34  

Yeah. She she has gone through all the challenges of starting off as someone who has had an aspiration of being a writer to actually like, going through all the steps over the past couple of years. And she she kind of lifts the lid on on on it and like how it works and what you can do to participate. So can't recommend this course more. Just go to profitablepilates.com/courses. And you can find it in there.

Lesley Logan 22:02  

Yeah. Well, I love Roxy. Thank you so much for being on. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 22:06  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 22:07  

Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. How are you going to use these tips in your life? We want to know, inquiring minds, really want to know. So ... (Brad: These two inquiring minds.) These two and I know Roxy, too. So what you're gonna do is you're gonna screenshot this episode, you're going to post it on your social, you're gonna tag the @be_it_pod, you're going to tag @roxyspiral. And you're gonna let us know what your takeaways are. And if you're like, "I have no idea how that even works." I get it. Not everyone does Instagram for a living. So you can just text it to a friend, (Brad: Yeah) that's fine. And you can just write into the show if you want that, all those links are below. But it's really important to us that you are taking some messy action, you're ditching perfection and you are Being It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 22:44  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 22:46  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 23:19  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 23:30  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 23:35  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 23:43  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 23:55  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Is the work-life balance real? Can you raise a toddler, chase your goals, and overcome rejection all at the same time? Roxy Menzies would say yes. Listen to hear all her wisdom from her years abroad teaching, performing, and presenting to now returning to her hometown and finding ways to inspire others to love movement. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• What kind of stories are you telling? 
• The balance of work and family. 
• It’s not always easy or sustainable 
• Naming the role models for balance 
• Finding the people in your corner to support who you want to show up
• Persistence over patience 
• The indoctrination of rejection 

Episode References/Links:

• Website
• Instagram
• Top Travel and Teaching Blog by Roxy

Guest Bio:

After years of teaching, treating, performing and presenting around the world, Roxy has returned and is now based in Toronto, Canada. Continually curious about the capabilities of the human body, mind and spirit, she is a lover of movement with an affinity for Women's Health and being an advocate for your own well-being.

With a background in dance, Pilates, GYROTONIC® and Yamuna® Body Rolling, she infuses artistry, knowledge, soul and a "fierce sense of humour" into her sessions. She has taught in the Canadian Educational system, professional dance companies, Cirque du Soleil and European corporations.

She still dabbles in the dance world after an extensive career in commercial and stage work including representing women for Nike Dance in Europe, training with The National Dance Theatre Company of Jamaica, dance pioneer Katherine Dunham and an original member of Toronto's first all female Hip Hop dance group.

Roxy's vision is to guide, educate and create safe spaces for individual's to explore their own movement potential. She is an accomplished freelance writer for various publications, copywriter for wellness professionals, and has been a regular contributor to Pilates Anytime and Healthline.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Hello, Be It listener. I have a very special guest for you. Yeah, we have lots of special guests. But I have a very special guest for you. Her name is Roxy Menzies. And I, you'll hear my introduction to her how long we've been in each other's paths. And it's just, do you ever those people that you like see from afar, and you're watching them, and you're seeing what they're up to, and then your paths cross, and then you might not even know what things you have in common or how you'll affect each other. In fact, you probably won't. That's kind of how you, we're not psychics. At any rate, what's really cool about this woman is I have been able to see different chapters of her life over time. And it is incredible, it's amazing to see the strength and power this woman has and to watch how she has used that strength and power in different areas of her life, in different chapters of her life. And for those of you who are like, "Things aren't happening fast enough." For those of you who are like, "I've got, I've got young kids right now. I can't do all the things I want to do." This is episode for you. This is the episode for you. There are so many gems along the way. I want you whether you're washing dishes, walking the dog, pay attention, just listen to what she's saying. Because I think you're going to easily see yourself in her story. And we talked a lot about writing. And if you don't want to be a writer, I still want you to listen, because you can replace writing for anything that you are wanting to do. And I have a question about patients in there and the revelation around that is actually extremely important. I want you to hear it. And I love of course, I love the BE IT action items at the end but I really love her's. They're something you can do. They don't cost you any money. So y'all, here she is Roxy Menzies.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Hey, Be It listeners. All right. I have Roxy Menzies with us today, and I am really thrilled to actually to get to see her face. We DM a lot. I have been watching her journey for a long time actually. She's a bold, incredible woman. She actually approached me many years ago when I was a baby blogger just trying to get my words out there. And her blog posts for traveling instructors is still one of our top blogs on our site. And I got to follow her from her life and in Turkey into Canada and then being a mom. And now she is this really I mean, she's always been writing but she has made it as a writer is doing some incredible thing. So Roxy, how're you doing? Here ...

Roxy Menzies 3:23  

Hey! (Lesley: Thanks for being here.) Oh my gosh, what an intro. Thank you. (Roxy laughs)

Lesley Logan 3:28  

I'm ... I'm being it until I see it in my next life. I'll be like an edification person, be that announcer through the stage. (Lesley laughs) And ... next we have. Roxy, can you tell everyone who you are, where you're at? What you rockin right now? What are you up to?

Roxy Menzies 3:43  

All right. All right. Good question. All right. So basically, I am a teacher of a Pilates, Gyrotonic. And yeah, I'm in a body rolling. I come from a background of dance. I've been traveling around the world teaching, presenting, performing and all of that, and I'm back in my hometown of Toronto, Canada. And I'm also a freelance writer and a storyteller, mostly for the writing is mostly within the realm of health and health and wellness for now. And I'm a mom of a rambunctious toddler. (Lesley laughs)

Lesley Logan 4:17  

She's, is she one, two?

Roxy Menzies 4:19  

No. she's, she'll be two and a half in July.

Lesley Logan 4:22  

Oh my gosh.

Roxy Menzies 4:24  

So she's almost reaching that independent stage. So I've been told. (Lesley laughs) But I have to be honest, I'm happy that she's quite energetic. You know, I don't think I'd want a kid that's just like, blahh, you know, (Lesley and Roxy laughs) no energy and not doing anything. So, so yeah. (Lesley: That's so funny.) Okay, she's my ride or die ...

Lesley Logan 4:24  

She's amazing. She's so beautiful. And she's so smart. And I love I love all the videos with her. I met a woman yesterday who, she's a school teacher and she has two boys and and so the doctor said, "You know your second son, he's he's an orchid. He's just an orchid." He said he really, you just you have really precious with him. And she's like, "I understand. I am a school teacher." So, um, so you, you, you, as you mentioned, you write for health and wellness right now and I think a lot of people probably wonder like they, I think a lot of people want to write. I think they think they're gonna write a book someday or maybe they'll write a story someday. What made you start writing, have you been writing your whole life? What what got you into it?

Roxy Menzies 5:27  

Ooh, good question. I feel like, I've always been writing. I've always loved stories, whether it's, you know, oral stories, I mean, my mom's a great ghost storyteller. But yeah, I love stories, I've loved reading. And, you know, I was I was very much into creative writing from a young child. But I never pursued it. So, so I just did little bits here and there. And then after high school, not so much. And then kind of sprinkled it in, throughout the years with, you know, not so much blog posts, but there were printed editions of, you know, community based companies and programs, and I just do one off here or there. And then, but I always want to do it more, I would probably say in the last six, six to eight years, it was it was a goal of mine to be doing more writing, (Lesley: Yeah) whether it was, you know, eventually a book of some sort. And just articles in general. For me, it's also therapeutic. I get a lot of things out of my brain and emotionally off of my chest, (Roxy laughs) from writing. (Lesley: Yeah) But yeah, I would say it's kind of always been there. But I've been growing with it. And I sort of, and how it became another income stream, wasn't so much on on purpose, I kind of fell into it. I just wanted to write and get my voice out there thinking that it would come back to, to my website and what I was doing, but then it became it became something else. And from there, I can see other pathways growing.

Lesley Logan 7:08  

Yeah. I think that's really cool that you mentioned that it wasn't necessarily the thought to do it as a living, it was more like it was just in you to do it. And I do think a lot of people might feel like, "Oh, if I'm not going to write for people, for people to pay me, maybe I like what's the point." But I love that you point out is is therapeutic, there is something, I do morning pages, and it's therapy. It's like, "Wat's on my mind right now?" And it's not for anyone else to read and then writing for things for people to read is is for me, I don't know about for you. It's like, this is something I feel like needs to is the question I'm hearing and I need the answer to be out there. And, and so I wonder though, you yes you mentioned you weren't like writing forever. So it's like you took a pause. And then you were like, "I really want to start doing this more." As it became an income stream. Was there anything that was like key, like holding you back? Or were you just like now like, there's no stopping me now? Like, was there any, you know, things you were kind of weighing, like, as an imposter syndrome around there? Because this is just like in the world of writing. And like, do you start to wonder about writing for other publications? What's the process that you go through as you're trying to get your work out there?

Roxy Menzies 8:17  

Oh, sure. Yeah, for sure. I'm sure I had impostor syndrome, I still do at time, because something that's come up a lot is people will say, "Oh, my grammar" and all that. And I am terrible with grammar. So that's something that I always felt, you know, could hold me back or I'm not as good of a writer because of, you know, these grammatical things. I don't have a journalism degree, you know, things like that. But, but things just kept coming up. And I also remember reading, I have a writing mentor, now, actually, and I read something that she had written, something along the lines of writers don't have to worry about grammar. That's what editors are for. Like you, as a writer, you are meant to express yourself and creatively get whatever story needs to be out there. And that really hit home. And that was almost like a huge relief for me. And the same was some of the editors I've had there. They say, "Don't worry about that. You know, that's my job. I take care of that." (Lesley: That is so cool.) And I guess it's not too too bad. (Lesley and Roxy laughs) You know, because I hear some horror stories about some editors out there, but so far, I've I've been pretty lucky.

Lesley Logan 9:31  

Yeah, I think I love that you heard that and I love that you say that because I do think that holds people back. A lot of people think they're not a writer or they think their grammar isn't good enough. And same, it's not for me either. I'm like, I feel like, "I, how did I miss, did I miss years of classes?" Like where did I get... (Lesley laughs)

Roxy Menzies 9:50  

I know like some people they talk about these, you know, grammatical things. So I'm like, "I have no idea what they're talking about." (Roxy laughs)

Lesley Logan 9:56  

When I was doing my flashcards, the Mat flashcards. I had one of the Agency members, who I know is like, she's like us like she's the person who's like, "Um, you missed the, it's a PDT, not PST," and it's like, "What is the difference? Is there a difference?" Like you know, like, doesn't matter. We all know what's going on, right? Anyway. So I was like, "Hey, can you read these?" And she's like, "Do you guys want to have an Oxford comma? Or are you guys not Oxford comma people?" And I was like, "What is an Oxford comma?" So then I like look up Oxford commas. And then I was like, "Oh, my God, it was a massive lawsuit, put the Oxford comma and because I don't want to get sued." (Lesley laughs)

Roxy Menzies 10:31  

Yeah, and those are funny things that come up. I mean, that's something that I mean, if we talk about it later, in the writing course, for Profitable Pilates, I talked about that. And usually, every publication will give you a guide to how their style is, and it will say, and like, some will say, "We don't use the Oxford coma, comma." Some will say, you know, "We do, we don't" and you know, other guidelines, like how many sources you can have, and, and they kind of guide you in that sense as well.

Lesley Logan 10:59  

That's so cool. That's so great. I mean, I think (Roxy: Yeah) there's the fear of the unknown, right? And also, maybe even the fear of what happens if it works out, like what happens if you all of a sudden start to write and then you know, what does that look like? What is ... So you're you weren't writing as an income stream, you were teaching dance and teaching Yamuna and Pilates. And now, do you only write or is that the main focus right now? Did your career just completely shift?

Roxy Menzies 11:28  

Um, it kind of felt like a did for a while because I did stop teaching. I mean, I, I would say probably from summer of 2019, I, I really started downsizing on the teaching, because we were moving abroad, and I was pregnant, and there was so much to do with that, like, my husband is not Canadian, so we had to get his papers. And, and you know, when (Lesley: That's a process.) me coming back into the country full time. Yeah. So there was so much and then of course, we know, the pandemic hit. So a lot of things shifted. And then by August of 2020, I stopped teaching completely. So I just, I couldn't manage all of it. I didn't have the energy, and I didn't and I didn't feel like I could give it, I could give clients or or, you know, group classes enough at that point. (Lesley: Yeah) Do you know what I mean? Like, I felt like I was being pulled in too many directions.

Lesley Logan 12:23  

Well, and also like, gosh, I mean, back then you had and a newborn, right? You had a newborn, you were back in a country you hadn't lived in personally for a while. You're trying to get your husband set up. There's a pandemic, it's a little hard to be teaching someone on Zoom when there's a baby crying in the background, like (Roxy: Definitely) I can, I think a lot of people listening are probably going, "Oh my God her too?" Like, they probably don't feel as alone. Because that especially that first six months to a year, depending where you were lived and what your kids ages were, it really did probably feel like for a lot people they had a pullback or or, or to understand that you only have so many priorities.

Roxy Menzies 13:00  

Oh, definitely. I mean, I think some of the stats have come out in regards to how many women left the workforce. (Lesley: Yeah, so many.) You know, and they're just slowly coming back into it. But it was actually good. It was it was a break. And I just started getting back into teaching, I would say February of this year. Yeah. So and that also is very minimal, how much I'm teaching because again, I have to balance everything out. Jazz, my toddler, she is only going to daycare part time. (Lesley: Yeah) And I'm, and I'm still trying to do some other things. And still, write. So I have to I have to watch how much teaching I take on. But it feels great. Like having that break was was amazing. And I feel like I've I've come back and I'm exploring, possibly a new way of teaching, (Lesley: Yeah) just because, you know, I do feel different in many ways, like, physically, emotionally. I mean you just grow.

Lesley Logan 14:00  

Yeah, I think that's, well, I think whether or not you had a kid the last two years, it's pretty hard to be. I feel like it'd be really hard to have been the same person that I was before (Roxy: Sure) the pandemic. You know, a lot of time spent with myself. You're like, "Why do we do this? How are we doing this?" I love that you are talking about that balance, though, because I do think a lot of moms particularly but parents in general, there's a balance there, right? It's like how much can you do have one thing while also spending time with your child? And is that a difficult conversation for you to have? Or are you is it easier now that it's been two and a half years with her? Is it ...

Roxy Menzies 14:44  

No, (Lesley and Roxy laughs) I can tell you this it is constantly changing. I feel like it's constantly changing because the I don't know I I always used to think there was a way to find a balance and lately I'm questioning that. (Roxy laughs) But maybe, maybe there isn't. And really, some things have to be like, I learned this from you, parking ideas, and parking things for now and coming back to it later. And, and I've really recognized that there really are phases in our life. And there are times where you have to put a focus on on certain things and other things have to be by the wayside. And, (Lesley: Yeah) and then it'll change again, you know, they say, like, the seasons change. (Lesley: Yeah) So so I think that I'm still striving for a balance, like the the next thing for me is going to be like really self care, like when she, like I know, she's going to day... daycare full time in the fall. And I already know that I'm not going to be taking on too much, because it's going to be 'me time', it's going to be taking care of me. (Roxy laughs)

Lesley Logan 15:49  

Thank you for sharing that. You know, first of all, I used to listen to lots of podcasts about balance, and I heard people call it the work life blend, and then they are like, "No, it's the life work balance, because that's more alphabetical and we shove life before work anyways." And then my, like constantly I think about my yoga teacher, who would teach these balance workshops. And he said, "Balance is actually just controlling like, it's like, basically the space between falling." So when you are balanced, like in a handstand, you are working on not falling either backwards or forwards. It's (Roxy: Right) not like you're just up there. And it's like, chill beans, like it's work. (Roxy: Yeah, work of the balance. No.) (Lesley laughs) Nailed it. Where's my gold star?

Roxy Menzies 16:31  

You're constantly, it's constantly, you know, like, you're moving around, faltering, figuring it out.

Lesley Logan 16:37  

Yeah, like your, your fingertips are taking more weight than the heel of your hands, you're, you're contracting more muscles. And so I have stopped thinking that balance is easy. And nor is it like something that is sustainable, because, you know, eventually there's going to be something that tips the balance in one direction or the other. And it doesn't mean that, like, I'm not looking to have balance of some kind, but I think it's like, for me, and I love what you're saying for you. There is a season, you have a self care season ahead for you, you know, and ...

Roxy Menzies 17:08  

Yeah, that hopefully will stay, (Roxy laughs) forever. Forever in my life.

Lesley Logan 17:13  

Yeah, well let me know how that goes. But I and it's like, there are going to be seasons like, where you can actually for people listen, like you can work more towards whatever your work goal is because maybe the kids maybe your kid is in school, or maybe you have an extra time or you just have a flow, you know. Kareen Walsh did an episode like, it's okay for you to hustle. It's just what your hustle becomes a hassle. Right? When people are like, (Roxy: Yeah) grinding it out. And so, and thank you for sharing that because I ...

Roxy Menzies 17:37  

Right. And that's a season too, right? (Lesley: Yeah) Because, and that's the thing, you know, I feel like we get so many conflicting bits of information, right? Because because you'll get the you know what? Life shouldn't be about the grind. And then we get in, then we get the other one that's like, "Yo, I'm hustling, and I'm making it." And there are going to be times in your life. Like she said, like, you have to hustle. And you just know that okay, for this, whatever, 10 weeks, it's going to be tight. This is going to be I'm not going to be able to do this as much. And I'm gonna have to focus on this. But it can't. It's not sustainable, like you said, so it can't go on and on and on. It has to change. And that even goes back to what you were just saying about the balance. Right. (Lesley: Yeah) So so it's really interesting, but I want to share something with you, (Lesley: Tell me. Tell me. I love it. I love it.) On the round of be it till you see it. Well, there's two things I want to share with you. (Lesley: Yeah) So, I think it was a couple of weeks ago, I was sitting on the couch. And I was just thinking and I was like, "Oh, I know what my next be it till you see it is going to be." (Lesley: I'm so excited. What is it?) Because I've been feeling very, oh speaking of balance just a bit all over the place. And the house is messy. And I don't feel like our routines are set with with a toddler. And I was like, "You know what, I'm gonna be the organized mom until I see it." So that is the thing that I'm working on. And I've tried to have an image of who you'd like to have, like a role model and (Lesley: Yeah) it is so funny, because the things that keep popping in my head, you want to talk about things that are ingrained in you from society. Is that sort of not maybe like Stepford wife but like the homemaker like 50s with the apron and that's not the image that I want. Something like, "Who is a mom role model?" And just today I went Michelle Obama. (Lesley: Aah) Yes, that is that is the be it till you see it mom role model that I'm going for.

Lesley Logan 19:31  

Oh, yes. And and because she definitely to me represents organized mama like she really and she had clear boundaries and she felt like she wasn't (Roxy: Yeah) because I when I think of like those Stepford wife person, it's like, they're doing everything for everybody and she was like, "No, Mr. Obama President you will have dinner with us and actually ..." (Lesley and Roxy laughs)

Roxy Menzies 19:53  

Yeah. Exactly, you're gonna have to rework your schedule.

Lesley Logan 19:55  

Yeah. You know, I love this. I'm I'm trying to think of the book because there is one and I can't think of the name, but it will come to me and I will send it to you. It's about a guy who talks about how we do have these different roles that we can play. And he talks about how even Martin Luther King, he brings them upside. So he puts a glasses on when he would write. And it was kind of like his Superman kind of like, glasses thing, but becasue he didn't need them to write.

Roxy Menzies 19:55  

Yeah. We just to talk about that back in the day when I was dancing. You know, we used to say, because I was in this, we were like the first all female hip hop group in Toronto. And I remember a friend of mine saying one time, like, "You know, how you dress is gonna affect how you dance and the attitude," you know. So, so we were doing like, you know, really grounded, gritty, hip hop dancing. And she was like, "You know, we can't come in with your ballet tights and leotard." Like, you're not going to have that same, you know, feeling so so I get that when you say about the role or even sometimes, you know, especially like, you know, this whole work from home phenomenon that's gone on, and people are like, "Well, you know, what, you still wake up and you still put something on." (Lesley: Yeah) You know, or people just put on their lipstick. And I (Lesley: Yeah) get to work because that signifies that change ...

Lesley Logan 21:11  

Yeah, I changed my clothes. I've been changing my clothes after I try, if I'm like, today, I'm filming. So I'm completely in workout gear for this podcast. But typically, I will change out of workout clothes into real clothes. So that I'm like, real clothes. It's like they're all clothes. But they are like, (Roxy: Yeah) clothes people ... (Roxy: I got what you mean.) Yeah. So then I'm like, oh, so when I got, it... you show ... I show up differently. I show up for like, I'm, I'm here to work. And then when the workday is over, I'll change into like the clothesI walk the dogs and like it put those different things on. Amy Ledin, who I think you remember her from, she did the DACs. Remember her?

Roxy Menzies 21:46  

Yes. She's the one with the cards or the (Lesley: Yes) four things? (Lesley: Yes) Yes.

Lesley Logan 21:52  

Yes. So she actually has different names for different things. She has her health person, and she has a name for them. And she had her religious person, which was actually called, I want to say her name was Jane Maxwell after like a famous female minister and famous male minister. And like she met the names together, she ended up meeting John Maxwell. (Lesley and Roxy laughs) Because of this ...

Roxy Menzies 21:52  

Is like a confusing when you have too many though? (Lesley: Yeah, I mean ...) I would get, I would get confused and overwhelmed.

Lesley Logan 22:20  

Yeah, I know. But I think um, I really love going back to your like you how it's like, what would what would Michelle Obama as a organized mama do like right here. And that has been what helped me. That's why this podcast exists. It's what helped me be a CEO of my company, when I'm like, "I don't know how you grow company." Like, I know how to get clients. I don't know how to like scale a company. I don't know how to hire all these different team members. I've never thought about a corporate structure, all these things. And so I was like, "Okay, well, who do I need to be like, who is a female founder? Who I, who does this? What would she do? If she was ..."

Roxy Menzies 22:57  

Well that ... Yeah, sorry for interrupting you.

Lesley Logan 23:01  

No, you're fine. Go ahead.

Roxy Menzies 23:02  

I was gonna say it's, it was the same with writing. You know, I was like, I don't, I don't know how to do a blog for someone. Do I have to do, choose the pictures? Do I have to actually go into your website and put it into. I just send you the doc, like, there was a huge learning curve. And now I'm in this, this writing mentorship for a year. And I'm with this amazing cohort of women writers, and most of them are, they're all writers or publishers, or they have their own publishing house. And there's so much information. Again, so much stuff I don't know, like about the contracts or you know, if you want to self publish, how do you do that? What to look for in contracts? Like, the whole thing about the publishing industry. You know, there's so much there. And if you don't know where to start, you're, you know, you're swimming in unchartered waters, so to speak, (Lesley: Yeah) you know, so, so one, it helps. Yeah. I mean, you go for it, and you and you find, you start researching. But then also, it's like, you also need other people in your court. (Lesley: Yeah) You have to find the support or they find you and I think that happens when but like you said, when you be it till you see it, like if you're when you're solid in that and you've put out what you want, things will start coming to you (Lesley: I agree) that support that.

Lesley Logan 24:26  

I agree. I think like, a) you can put yourself in the rooms, like you put yourself also in a writing group you were writing before this group, but have you ... (Roxy: It fell into my lap, actually.) And that's because you were already out there writing like, it probably wouldn't have (Roxy: Right) fallen into your lap if you were just hanging out, wanting to be a writer.

Roxy Menzies 24:42  

No, not at all. And to be honest, I mean, I say that it kind of fell into my lap, but there are very few things I have like, because some people will look at the amount of writing I've done and just be like, "Wow, like, how did you do that?" And it's so much and I go listen. I am a person, I have had to almost push for everything. I do the following up, I check in. I mean, I was in touch with Pilates Anytime, from the first time talking to them about about writing. It was a full year till something was actually published under them. (Lesley: Thank you for saying that.) You know, so things take time. And it doesn't mean I was added every single day because I had other things going on, you (Lesley: Yeah) know, but, you know, a couple months later, and I was just like, "Hey, you know, checking in. Hey, what about writing for you da da da." And I've done that with so many things. That Balance Body blog, the conception of that was a year ago until it actually came out. And that was like finding the right place for it to be published. So so I don't want anybody to think that that there isn't work involved. There really is. (Lesley: Yeah) There is. And it's like you said, it's the preparation meets opportunity. (Lesley: Yeah) You know. (Lesley: Yeah) And you put things out there, but sometimes it does take time.

Lesley Logan 26:02  

Ah, thank you for sharing this these both those stories, because it is true. I think people go, "Oh, how to rock to get it. She must have just asked and then she got it." Nope. There's like waiting for crickets. I have to had to follow up with certain companies seven times, like, "Hey, just fallen back on this. Get back on the top of the thing." Like, and, you know, also, we talked about this before we hit record. But I had told Roxy, I'm so excited. I'm really excited. I had asked someone to be on this podcast, and they didn't respond. And I actually didn't even realize that they didn't respond until I went to ask him again. But I thought I was asking, I was asking but I guess I had, I had had her on my like dream list from when I was launching. And just so y'all know, when you're launching a podcast, the big names don't want to be on you unless you're a big name already. Because why (Roxy: Yeah) there's no audience to take from, there's no audience to glean from so you have to kind of earn your way to a place where you can get these people to like pay attention to you. That's why, hello, aka reviews matter people. (Lesley and Roxy laughs) So, their publicist is looking. So um, so anyways, I was, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to ask her again. We're headed over 100 episodes and asked her." And so I send the DM and then I after I hit send, I saw I saw that we'd asked her the first time and she didn't respond. And I was like, "Oh, my God, maybe I should take it down." And then I was like, "No, I'm gonna leave it up." And you know what? She responded with a 'Yes', that was a year long, yes, I waited for. And you have to follow up. I mean, I think a lot of people think that if somebody doesn't respond or says no, it's never. And it's like, you just don't know when they, when what you have to say, aligns with what they have going on.

Roxy Menzies 27:42  

Yeah, definitely. There's so many different things and sometimes messages, emails, they just fall through the cracks. (Lesley: Oh, I'm notorious for deleting emails.) You forget you go back in and you're like, "Hey, oh right, I forgot about that." I mean, people have so much going on as well. (Lesley: Right) I mean, even relates to business. I mean, I don't know how many how many sales points are there now? Like you have to ...

Lesley Logan 28:04  

Oh, yeah, it was I read it. I heard it the other day. It's over 20, now. Girl, it's over 20. So what she means by that is, you pre pandemic was 7 to 17 touch points before somebody would click doesn't mean they buy, it means they click and they know this from ads. It's like how many times does someone have to see an ad before they click on it 7 to 17. It is over 20 now. It is in there's just so much going on. And it's so easy for someone opened up an email their kid to tug on their shirt, there, they spill their coffee, then they didn't even read the email, then they go to open their email, it's gone. It's already unread. So worth the following up, worth of following up. Okay, let's talk really quick because I am obsessed with your approach to things. And I've been in awe and read. I've read every blog that has ever been shared by you, to me, and I love your words. And I'm all I always find myself going, "Yes, yes." So I ... (Roxy: You're the best cheerleader ever) (Roxy laughs) Oh, I like, I'm like, "Yes." Well, especially, we'll put the link to the the recent core article you wrote. Because I'm I'm really am obsessed with it.

Roxy Menzies 29:11  

I think part two is out today, actually. (Lesley: Oh, great.) So as we speak, it's been it's been put up. 

Lesley Logan 29:16  

Great, because then when this airs, we have both links in it. That's amazing. So um, so I think it was ... I have we had talked about you doing a course a lot for a while. And there was like, you know, it was (Roxy: Yeah) it was not a no, but it was like, "Okay, I'll think about it." And I was like, ... (Lesley laughs)

Roxy Menzies 29:33  

That's how the best things have happened. I mean, this studio, I'm working at downtown. It was the same thing. This girl used to dance with. She sent me a DM. She said, "Are you ready to start teaching?" This was back in late November, early December. And that I mean talk about snob. I was kind of like, "Hmm. I don't know but I'll check it out." (Lesley and Roxy laughs) And then it was the weirdest onboarding process and I love this place. Like it feels like home and my husband, I haven't said because you never say that about any place in studio. So it's, it's, yeah, I mean, things can kind of pop up. And I remember when you you mentioned that to me, and I think Jazz was really small at the time. (Lesley: Yeah) I don't even think she was quite yet a year. And I was kind of like, "Yeah, maybe blah, blah, blah." But you planted the seed. That's the point. (Lesley: Yeah) And then things I started thinking about, "Oh, well, what could that be? That'd be interesting." And then I was getting all these questions in regards to writing. So I was like, "Oh, this could be something interesting." And then it kind of grew from there. But yeah, but I mean, that also took time, right?

Lesley Logan 30:38  

Took time, it took a long time, I think it was almost a year as well. And so y'all we'll put it in the notes but if you are, if you're listening to this, you're like, "Oh, I wanted to write. Oh, that's I thought about that." Roxy actually created a course for Profitable Pilates, which is our fitness business coaching company. And it is, I have to say like, first of all, I think it puts my courses to shame, it is so thorough, it is so robust. It is incredible how helpful and supportive it is, for people who are wanting to write, you really thought of a lot of things that I didn't even think you would like even think to ask you to include. And I'm really grateful, because it's so funny. On the last day, we did a promo for everyone, just as like a launch promo, and it's a very affordable course. So you can just go get it. But on the last day of that promo Pilates nerd had read, had been a post, did you see this comic post? (Roxy: Oh ...) It was like a guy who looks like he probably has never worked out just like hanging out in a chair. And he's like, to... like all tired. And he's like, "Oh, I'm writing, ah, wellness article." (Lesley and Roxy laughs) You know. And, and the whole idea was like, "We need people, too who are in wellness to write wellness articles." And that's why your course exists. Because so many of us get upset by the articles we see, you know, case in point, and somebody texted me last week, like, "What's this?" And I was like, "Why don't you just contact the writer and of the at the newspaper and say, 'Hey, have you ever thought about interviewing someone who actually teaches?'" Like, (Roxy: Right) you know, because (Roxy: Excuse me) they're only there, the articles that are out there are from the people who pitch them, they can't pitch, they can't, they can't publish articles that don't exist and aren't being pitched to them. And so I really am grateful for the course that you have, because as you ...

Roxy Menzies 32:28  

You are so right about that, because since since this, I've joined a couple of like freelance writing groups. And I've seen job opportunities come up, I mean, in things that I mean, all kinds of subjects. And, and there are writers out there, I mean, they, they have no experience in it nothing. And they're just like, "Oh, I can write about that." There was one that really bothered me, because cuz she was specifically looking for diversity and inclusion, paper and writing. And that should literally be people that are (Lesley: Yeah) that are experienced and, and know about that work and (Lesley: Yeah) all kinds of people from the woodworks, like, "Oh, I can write, I can write." Because they're just looking for writing gigs. So they just figure they can research whatever. (Lesley: Yeah) And, and it can come up.

Lesley Logan 33:17  

Yeah, and you know, that's the difference. I mean, I can read article, and know, like, "This person has never done it before. They don't know." Like I can, (Roxy: Yeah) because I am in the wellness industry, or the business industry. But people who are not are gonna read the article. And they're gonna go, "Oh, that's, that's the yoga and Pilates. The difference is breathing." And it's like, ah huh, it's a little bit more complex on that. (Lesley laughs) (Roxy: Definitely) Well, y'all ...

Roxy Menzies 33:45  

I'm actually writing something about Gyrotonic. And that's taken a lot. I've been pushing for that for a while, because I'm like, "Hey, you know, everybody knows about Pilates and yoga. Let's try and cover some other modalities as well." (Lesley: Yeah) That's finally coming. So again, that's I pushed for that, kept reminding. Hey, you know.

Lesley Logan 34:00  

Okay, so I feel like the common theme is following up and patience. (Roxy laughs) So (Roxy: Yeah) so were you always just because I'm curious now. Were you always a patient person? Or did you learn that through this career that you've created? Or is it in the last ...

Roxy Menzies 34:19  

... I wouldn't use the word patience. I would not use the word patience. (Lesley: Okay) And I'm sure my husband be like, "She is not patient at all." (Lesley and Roxy laughs)

Lesley Logan 34:27  

You're persistent then.

Roxy Menzies 34:29  

Yeah, persistent would be a better word. (Lesley: Okay) I mean, there are some things I just like you feel called to do. (Lesley: Yeah) You know, like, like, even with this one that came out with Balance Body. I pitched it to another big Pilates place. And it didn't go like like myself and the editor. We're just on very different trajectories. So then I was able to like I checked in with people I was like, "Anybody connected to Balance Body. I think that would be a great company to to get this piece out with." And, and yeah, and it took some time to get through the channels and get in and pitch this idea. And then they were like, "Oh, we love it, we think it would be great actually." And for it to go. So it's really yeah, I would say I'm more driven and (Lesley: Yeah) persistent than anything else. I mean, they're there obviously, for some things, there comes a point where, you know, you have to stop or whatnot. (Lesley: And you just know ... feeling?) Like, I don't, I don't call them every single day or anything like that. But I will, I will ask, I think if you don't ask, it won't happen. You have to be willing to ask (Lesley: Brilliant) and put yourself out there.

Lesley Logan 35:43  

So so then, so then people are gonna want to know, how about the rejection? Like, how often does that happen? How does it hurt? Do you just move on to the next thing, because it's part of the gig. Like, I mean, rejection ...

Roxy Menzies 35:54  

Well, it happens all the time. And also, you know, I'm also coming from being a dancer. So I mean (Lesley: Yeah, you're used to be.) ... talk about rejection. (Roxy laughs)

Lesley Logan 36:04  

That's how they indoctrinate you with rejection. And that because I'm in a group with a girl who's a dancer, she's like, "Rejection?" She's like, "You get rejected for being you." That's like, it's like, (Roxy: Oh, totally) at least with your writing you can go, "Well, it's a blog post is not actually me." But like with dancing. It's like, "hmm, I don't like that your hair ..." 

Roxy Menzies 36:21  

You're too tall. You're this, you're that. Yeah. So rejection, but does it hurt? Of course, it's still, it's still, sometimes it'll sting. And it depends, I think on on so many different factors, like what else is going on? Like, you know, "I've I've been sleeping enough? Am I sort of grounded?" And, you know, because if you're in a in a pretty decent place, you can handle rejection a lot better. But I'm also somebody who I will feel the feels, I will give my ego a moment to have its little temper tantrum, not in public. You know, like off to the side privately or I talked to a friend and I'm just like, "Oh, my gosh, blah, blah, blah." I have that moment and then I move on.

Lesley Logan 37:02  

Yeah, (Roxy: You know) I think that is, I don't think enough people allow themselves to feel the feels like and I think that you, you have to because all the studies have been like, you know, there's the body keeps score, there's a book called Burnout, like keeping all of that inside and just acting like it doesn't bother you is also the opposite. And, you know, I am I'm hoping to get this person someday I want who wrote the book on rejection on the pod, because fear of rejection is real. But also something he said is like, you will be rejected more times in life than you will not. Like it's just part of life. You like, (Roxy: That's true) it's impossible for you to be rejected less than not, because there's only so much time in the day for you to do things.

Roxy Menzies 37:46  

Well, yeah, that's true. That's true. And then you can usually, I don't know, I like once I passed the little ego part, there's usually the moment where you can find the positive in it, or sometimes it's really a blessing in disguise. Like, there have been things where something didn't work out, and it bummed me out, or, you know, or somebody ghosted me about a possible job. And I was like, "What happened?" Like I still I don't understand and it was a blessing, because I thought if I did work with that person, that would have been a nightmare. (Lesley: Right) You know, so sometimes you have to, you have to trust in how, in how some things end up. There's always gonna be other doors that, that open. You but you still have to keep putting yourself out there and being driven. And when I was when I first came back in 2019, I was pregnant, I was just like, "I'm gonna audition for every pregnant thing out there." You know, before I give birth, thinking that there would be a ton of jobs there was literally because I didn't have an agent. There was literally like three pregnant jobs that came up in the span of four months that I booked the last one. And, and it was just nuts. And again, you wouldn't get it you know, you feel rejected, but I remember listening to I don't know, it was some podcasts about this actress and she had said that she's pretty well known. She's not like, like, you know, one of the Avengers (Lesley: Yeah) like known but she's like a really well known actress. I can't remember her name right now. But she had said that when she started auditioning her grandmother who did acting had said to her that it takes 60 auditions before you book one. (Lesley: Wow) Yeah, so she, so she literally kept score. And even her agent was like, "How are you still here? Like all these other actors and actresses given up by now?" She goes, "Because my grandma told me it would take 60." And I think she said it was in the 50s like, audition that she finally booked this role that jump started her career.

Lesley Logan 39:52  

Yeah, it is. I think you're I think the theme and it'll be in the recap is like persistence. This is a persi... like that it is the key to anything because also, it goes with like Seth Godin - The Dip, right? In every career, there is a dip where like a bunch of people bow out, they quit, they get out of the game. If you can get through that, you get to the other side, and there's very few people. And so for (Roxy: Right) by her 50th audition, there's very few people who've kept going. And so now she's auditioning against a few people with experience in auditioning that (Roxy: Right) are good enough to get it, you know, and I think Brad has his like 200 rejections, he's like, really like, he doesn't he doesn't he doesn't mind a rejection because he's like, "Okay, that's one down. That's one down." He's gotta go. (Roxy: Right. He's keeping a tally.) Yeah, yeah. And I think like, if we can maybe the moral for everyone is like, maybe you have to get 60 rejections before you get one. But like, so (Roxy: yeah) count them and go, "Okay, that's, I'm getting closer. I'm getting closer. I'm getting closer." 

Roxy Menzies 40:54  

I would always say to though, I mean, have other things going on as well. Like, I'm somebody who was never put all your eggs in one basket. My problem would be I probably have too many baskets. (Lesley laughs) I'm working on like narrowing the basket.

Lesley Logan 41:08  

You know, I understand that I had to narrow ... a whole team that like, "You have to narrow down your baskets and here is an ideas parking lot." (Lesley laughs) And it's I'm very grateful. Like I'm very grateful for those things because they have allowed me to do what I'm doing now. Roxy, you are just amazing. Y'all we're gonna come back in just a second. But Roxy's course is available on Profitable Pilates, we'll put the link below. When you buy that course, not only do we pay our course contributor, you also we donate a percentage of every sale to the Cupcake Girls Organization, which is actually helping stop human trafficking and also allow sex workers to have rights. So I'm really excited about what they are doing. They're incredible. Alright, Roxy, where can people find you? Where can they read your writing, stalk you, hire you for work? What's going on?

Roxy Menzies 41:55  

All right. All right. Well, you can start with my website, which is my name, roxymenzies.com. I have my full writing portfolio on there. And it's, as everyone knows, a website is a work in progress. So it's constantly being like updating and adding things in. And you can also find me on Instagram at @roxyspiral. And it's a r o x, y. (Lesley: Yeah) I can't stand that are r o x i e, personally ... It's r o x y. And please check out Wednesdays because I do Writing Tip Wednesdays.

Lesley Logan 42:25  

I love your Writing Tip Wednesdays. I'm so glad you started that. And it's I mean, you've been doing it for several weeks. And by the time this comes out, it'll be you know, probably a couple months, but it's, I am reminded of something like, "Oh, yeah, that that's great." Like, I love it. So it's sometimes it's a confidence builder, sometimes the lightning and you're just wonderful, and generous. And and ...

Roxy Menzies 42:44  

Thank you. You too, my goodness.

Lesley Logan 42:46  

Thank you. We try. We're trying every day like, how do we help more people that just be successful what they want to do, and I'm grateful for you being on this podcast. Before I let you go though, you must. I know we've talked a lot about things but just to wrap it up in case people do the TDLR whatever. TLDR - too long, didn't read and they just swipe till the end. BE IT action items - bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us?

Roxy Menzies 43:13  

It's gonna be a real shocker, write it down. (Lesley: ooh) Right? I mean, there are studies out there that show once you write something down, it has a higher chance of being achieved. Plus, it creates more bandwidth in your in your head. So that would be my number one thing, whatever it is that you want to be or whatever your dreams or goals, write it down and keep it somewhere. You know, for everyone, it will be different. If you're if you're a visual person, you need to see it. That would be the one thing I would say. And of course, it's coming from a writing perspective. (Lesley: Yeah) And other than that, I would say just getting really clear on your 'why' and your 'what'. Like, 'what is it that you really want' and 'why do you want it' and be and know that it can change and it will change and allow it to change, periodically.

Lesley Logan 44:10  

Yeah, yes. That's the ... allow it to change is so key. Roxy, you are a wonderful person. I know I said that. But I gotta say it again before I wrap this up. Now please check her out. Follow on Instagram. How are you going to use these tips in your life? Screenshots this episode, tag @roxyspiral, tag the @be_it_pod with your favorite takeaways. Do yourself a favor if you have a friend who you're like, "Oh my gosh, they need to hear this." Text it to them. You know, a lot of things in my life have changed because someone sent me a podcast and it's like, "Oh, that's exactly what I need to hear today." And you don't even what we often think we have to buy people gifts or do things like this or sit down have confident you could just send them a podcast episode. And rate and review the podcast so more people hear about it. Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast! One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram! I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

Brad Crowell 45:26  

It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 45:38  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 45:42  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 45:51  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all videos each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 46:03  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.  

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Mindset has a lot more to do with just feelings and thoughts, it comes down to a science. Engage with Brad and LL as they recap psychologist, Kasey Jo Ordivas and her insights to overcoming fixed vs growth mindset and how it impacts seemingly small thoughts…like cooking;)

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Fixed vs growth mindset 
• Researching your thoughts 
• The seven whys
• Writing out the feelings around imposter syndrome 

Episode References/Links:

• Kasey’s Free Growth Journal prompts
• Ethan Kross: Chatter The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Brad Crowell 0:46  

Hello!

Lesley Logan 0:47  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life Brad Crowell and I are going to talk about the shifting convo I had with Kasey Jo Orvidas in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that episode, go back, listen to that one, and then come back to this one, or listen to this one and listen to that one, or listen to this one and another one and then come back to that one. You get to do whatever order of podcasts as you want to do. And I'm really excited because if it sounds like we're in a different room, or if you're watching this on YouTube, and you're like, "Whose five year old bedroom are you in?"

Brad Crowell 1:17  

Yeah, that sort of feels like, definitely. And it also may sound different than normal because we are not at home.

Lesley Logan 1:26  

No, actually. So here's the deal. I was supposed to be there, there's so many things that are happening in the world right now. Right? That it's like you want to do all and I believe in pauses, we believe in the power of the pause and a girlfriend of mine, Kareen Walsh, who was actually and Dr. Kelly Bender, who are both have been guests on this podcast. They were both going to be in Scottsdale while they were both in Scottsdale, Arizona for different conferences at the same time. It's a 45... (Brad: I didn't know that.) Yeah. (Brad: Oh) So yeah. So I they're at different conferences at the same time. And so they're like, "Hey, do you want to come to Arizona and hang with us?" And I was like, "Yeah, I do." So I was like, I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna go there." But then Barely Canadian was supposed to have a fashion show. And they're like, "Hey, are you gonna be able to come our fashion show?" And I was like, "I think I can do that." And then you're like, "I'm so, we're supposed to go camping." I was like, "Well, I can do all the things." So let me just tell you, if you really want to do things, you probably can make it happen. So what was the original plan was I was gonna fly to Arizona, I was gonna hang with Kareen and Kelly, which I did do. But then the fashion show got moved to June 5th, which is my Dad's birthday, so I can't do that. However, when we planned this I was like flying from Arizona to LA then taking an Amtrak train to Josh... to Palm Springs where Brad was gonna pick me up in Palm Springs to go to Joshua Tree. Anyways, then this incredible thing happened which was have an amazing phone call interview with this incredible magazine. I didn't want to miss. So then we had to like add a hotel into there. And then the fashion show got moved. So anyways, fast forward, rewind. I flew from Arizona to hang out with my girlfriends. Then I flew to Palm Springs. I'm in this pretty pretty princess room because it's the only room available in Palm Springs on a Sunday during all these festivals. And Brad is here. We're recording these podcasts before we go to Joshua Tree. (Brad: Yeah) Hang out in his cactus garden. (Brad: Heck yeah.) Anyway, (Brad: I'm so excited.) that is not what I was super excited about. (Brad and Lesley laughs) But Brad wanted to make sure, we all wanted...

Brad Crowell 3:21  

A little side note. (Lesley: Yeah) Little side note.

Lesley Logan 3:22  

We just wanted to make sure that you knew why we're in a weird space and it's not a five year old room. This is a hotel room you can you can get this but they didn't pay me for this podcast, so I'm not telling you who it is. Okay, coming up in a couple of weeks, I am going to be with Erika Quest teaching a six hour pre con at Momentum Fest, if you don't remember Jessica Valant. She was on our show last year. (Brad: Yeah) She's incredible. Brad and I love Momentum Fest and Brad's gonna be there with our booth. I'm teaching at the festival all weekend long. So if you live in Denver, if you can get yourself to Denver, you need to be going to Momentum Fest. So check that out. And ...

Brad Crowell 3:57  

It's a movement festival. So it's not just Pilates. They have all sorts of (Lesley: Yoga ... medication) modalities there. Yeah. And and it's also just a great time. It's just great people. It's a really fun vibe. And we've we. The first year we did it because our our friends were doing it, hosting it. And we were like, "Oh, well, of course we'll come in and support you." (Lesley: Yeah) And it was so much fun. We were like, "Well, you're gonna do it again next year. Right? Because we're coming."

Lesley Logan 4:22  

Yeah. And then and then we actually didn't do the next one.

Brad Crowell 4:26  

Well, then the next one we were out of the country.

Lesley Logan 4:29  

Yeah, anyways, but we believe in it so much. We sent everyone there and we have gone back every year since (Brad: Yeah) we're really excited about it. We'll have the flashcards there, we've got the book there. It's just a lot of fun. There's a solstice party. You can buy one day tickets today tickets, you can buy the pre con without coming or you can come to the whole thing. Just get your Thass two at Momentum Fest. Okay. And then one more thing I'm super excited about because it's coming up quick. I can't believe how fast this summer is going, Brad. (Brad: Yeah, I know.) So (Brad: It's already May.) eLevate if you remember if you've been listening for a long time 'eLevate' is my mentorship program for Pilates instructors who are wanting to elevate their practice, their connection to the method and how they teach the method. And our first round sold out. It's been incredible to nine month program. Anyways, we're about to open up the doors for the second round. Yes, I said second round, I'm going to do it after all, we are just confirming all the dates around the retreats, but we're taking fewer people this time. So if you are wanting to be on invited to that mentorship, you actually need to do need to get on to the waitlist, because we are going to invite those people first. First come, first serve applications. So you need to go to um, where did they need to go, Brad?

Brad Crowell 5:38  

lesleylogan.co/elevate

Lesley Logan 5:43  

Great, great, so you're gonna go there to get on the waitlist? Okay. We have an audience question, I think. (Brad: Yeah) This is funny. This one made me laugh.

Brad Crowell 5:52  

Well, I'll, I will let you read it because (Lesley: Okay) it's about me.

Lesley Logan 5:56  

Yeah. So I got a question. Did I see that Brad does have an Instagram account. And it's been kind of funny, because the whole time it's like Brad's not on Instagram. He's not on social. He's not on social but Brad, did you, did you?

Brad Crowell 6:09  

I totally did. I was I was inspired by our publicist. She said, "Brad, you talk about cactuses so much. You should have an Instagram about that." And I was like, "I would totally do that. I'm totally doing that." And so we brainstormed a lot of different names and ultimately got cactus daddie, that's @cactus_daddie, d a d d i e. (Lesley: Yeah) And so if you love seeing plants that somehow magically survive in jungles and deserts, cactus, cacti, they all, they do, succulents as well. I'm infatuated with them. And everywhere I go, now, they just kind of jump out at me and I take pictures of them. And it's just a lot of fun. (Lesley: Yeah) So come join me.

Lesley Logan 6:58  

Come join him. If you want to see the cactuses. He's already been getting feedback on on his account. So (Brad and Lesley laughs) (Brad: I have.) So you know, what? Every... no one is immune to feedback on their social media. All right.

Brad Crowell 7:14  

All right. Let's talk about Kasey Jo Orvidas. Obsessed with the connection between mindset and health behaviors. Kasey Jo went and got a Ph.D in Psychology to study growth versus the fixed mindset. Okay. Growth versus fixed. And that's key. It was a great conversation. She then developed her own program, health mindset, coaching certification, and started her health and fitness coaching business, KJO coaching. She's a determined woman working to blend psychology and health to help her clients develop lasting change. (Lesley: Yeah) And I just wanted to say, first off, I had no idea that like, mindset wasn't just a concept, but it was a science. There's science behind mindset.

Lesley Logan 8:01  

I know. Everyone thinks, it's o, it's a woowoo. But it's it's actually completely scientifically based. So

Brad Crowell 8:06  

Yeah, so like this, you know, I guess it made sense to me that she studied Psychology, of course. But then after getting the the foundation her... you know, in psychology, then went on to do her study and mindset. And so that found that really, really surprising. (Lesley: Yeah) I didn't know that.

Lesley Logan 8:24  

I love it. I love it. Well, you mentioned this already in her bio. So I'm gonna start with it. One thing I love that she talked about, is the growth versus six fixed mindset. And I think this is really a cool topic. It's, I find that when we can, we can actually like, label something, it makes it easier for us to understand what's happening. So I this weekend had a completely, a complete moment of a fixed mindset. And so just so you know, I think we talked about this in the podcast interview, you don't just like, you don't just like get a growth mindset and like, you're done. Like, nailed it, right? Like, you actually have to keep working at that. So, so just so you know, if you have days where you like, are like abundance, like I can do it all and like, like, you don't see things as holding you back, or like you don't see someone else's success as a reason you can't have it. That doesn't mean you're never going to have those moments where you're like, "I can't, you know, or this isn't working. I'm not good enough." Like you're gonna have you're a human being. But ...

Brad Crowell 9:23  

Well also too, there's more than it's not like you're not like chasing the the the mindset unicorn and once you've caught the unicorn, you're good for the rest of your life. (Lesley: Right) It's also like spread out across different topics, too. Right? You may have really worked on your money mindset, let's say (Lesley: Yeah) but your you know, your confidence in yourself in dating, maybe isn't there right so you're ... it's it's not like once you got it one place. You nailed it everywhere, either.

Lesley Logan 9:56  

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's really important, because I think that's where like, we're gonna talk about this later on the episode but like, I think that's where impostor syndrome comes in, because you like, you feel like you're good here, but you're not good there. I see this with our Agency members all the time. They're like, "Give it, I got it here. And now I don't have it here." And it's like, right, because it's ...

Brad Crowell 10:11  

I mean, Kasey talked about that, (Lesley: Yeah) too. She, she's, like, you know, even after five years of studying mindset, and understanding, you know, everything behind it, the foundation of it and why it happens. She said, she still catches herself, limiting herself and creating these limiting beliefs of like, "I always. I can't. Not that's not for me," like these kinds of words that are associated with (Lesley: Yeah) a fixed (Lesley: Yeah) mindset as opposed to a growth mindset. And, and I ...

Lesley Logan 10:40  

Oh, I think we talked about this on Michael Unbroken's episode, like, the worst thing you can say is, that's just who I am.

Brad Crowell 10:44  

Yes, that's the worst thing you could say. That was the episode, that was a great episode.

Lesley Logan 10:48  

That's a fixed mindset. So, (Brad: Right) I highly recommend, you know, think about listen to the words you're saying, if it's can't, not good enough. I'm not, I don't know enough or (Brad: That's not for me.) That's, um, that's just who I am. (Brad: Yeah) Just explore those. It's okay to like, look, there's like, I'm not like, not a lot of foods are for me, but... Right? So like, that's fine. But, but like this, be mindful of what you're saying about yourself because that fixed mindset could be like, literally starts to limit you. And like limit you in other areas.

Brad Crowell 11:23  

I think this is a great opportunity to talk about the 'why'. (Lesley: The 'why'?) Yeah, you know, the whys of... Asking yourself the seven why's, (Lesley: Oh yeah) you know, like that this is ...

Lesley Logan 11:38  

So funny, I just saw him. (Brad: Oh, really?) (Lesley laughs) Yeah. So, so the Seven Layers to Why is from Dean Graziosi. And the most hilarious thing is I just tell Brad, "Hey, I just saw him while I was having breakfast with Kareen in Arizona." (Brad: Ha!) So like, so speaking of Dean, you weren't in that part of the conversation but now you are. It's just like, why do, his is more like, "Why do you wanted this?" Like, "Why do I want to write a book?" "Because I want to get my message out there." "Why don't we get your message out there?" "Because my message can change lives." "Why do you want to change lives?" "Because I grew up with people who told me I couldn't do anything." Like, "Why is that important to you? Why, why?" Why until you get to the whole thing, (Lesley: Yeah) which is like, I don't ever want anyone to ever live in a world where they can't believe in what they do. Like or I don't (Brad: Yeah) like it's not, you know, so

Brad Crowell 12:27  

It's a fascinating dive into your own thinking and this is actually something that we didn't pick as a talking point but Kasey Jo was talking about researching your own mind and listening to the words that circulate in your own thoughts and then you know, but this researching your own mind that is a great tool, the 'whys' is a great tool to to (Lesley: Yeah) understanding yourself.

Lesley Logan 12:56  

And you can also go, you can also do the, "Why do I think that? Who told me that?" And that goes (Brad: Yeah) like Thor. Right? When we have that guests Thor, (Brad: Sure) he says, "I can't do that." And and you know, Byron Katie talks about this a lot, where just like, it's like, "Who would you be if you didn't have this fixed mindset? Who would you be if you didn't have the thought you couldn't do the thing?" You'd be the (Brad: Or) person you can do the thing.

Brad Crowell 13:14  

Or what would the person who could do that thing? What would they be doing? (Lesley: Yeah) Or how would they be thinking?

Lesley Logan 13:20  

Oh, hey, be it till you see it. (Brad: Hey) I said hey. (Brad laughs) We can just go on and on about this whole thing. It could be, I mean, it should be its own episode, we just had it with Kasey. So at any rate, I think it's a wrap this up a little bow and it kind of leads into your thing. It is okay, if you have a fixed mindset moment, it's going to, you're human being. (Brad: Yeah) What you then need to do is explore that in your mind, in an, in writing, in conversation with others around it so that you can pull it into, so you can pull yourself into a growth mindset aspect. And what will happen is you'll get faster and faster at doing this you're fixed mindset. (Brad: Right. You'll identify it.) might take you six months to get over them but then after that you were able to in six weeks and then in six days and then it's in six minutes. You're like, "Oh what is that thought? Oh hello old thought coming back in. Nice to see you. We don't agree with that anymore." You know, like you get to there's the author of Chatter like people use their own name to talk though to themselves when they were trying to like train a thought over and it you might think a crazy person but you're not like it was actually science around that. So anyways, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed with it. Anyways, what did you love?

Brad Crowell 14:28  

Well, I am so I'm glad we're we're digging into growth versus fixed mindset because I know that's one of the things we talked about so much on the show and in our webinars with Profitable Pilates. But one of the consistently recurring struggles that we've been told people are really digging into is imposter syndrome. And also, I mean or experiencing, not necessarily digging into but experiencing. And I know this is something that I also deal with, you also deal with impostor syndrome. (Lesley: Oh) Right. (Lesley: Yeah) And when we when we talk about impostor syndrome. I know it makes me feel small. Like, it makes me feel like like, "Oh, yeah, you know, like, I'm just not good enough for the thing, or I, why am I? How, why are people listening to me? How (Lesley: Yeah) do I have the authority to do all this kind of stuff?" And one, I want to kind of flip this, the perspective of it. Typically, we associated with fear, negativity. Right?

Lesley Logan 15:37  

How about we go in, people go into I see it all the time, the people we coach, or even in our OPC group, where they feel like an impostor, they go into like a shame spiral. And then it goes into a fixed mindset. And then it's (Brad: Right) like this whole thing. And it's like, yeah,

Brad Crowell 15:47  

Well, so I want to flip it, though, because one thing that Kasey Jo mentioned, was having imposter syndrome definitely means you're not a narcissist. (Lesley: Right. So it's not a bad thing.) So it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. Like (Lesley: Yeah) sometimes, I think it's helpful to acknowledge that, you know, we really do care about our work, we do care that we're conveying a message that is going to be helpful for people and beneficial for people. You know, so it's funny, because everything has a plus and a minus even impostor syndrome.

Lesley Logan 16:23  

Well, I also think like, it shows you care. (Brad: Yeah) It just shows you care. And also, it might even show you that you know, more because when you know more than you know, you don't know, you don't know. (Brad: Oh, yeah.) Do you know what I mean?

Brad Crowell 16:35  

That's another that's another thing that two of you talked about.

Lesley Logan 16:37  

The more that you know, the more you learn what you don't know, and that like (Brad: Yeah) creates his own impo... Like, yeah. It is, like new level, new devil. So you know, I think I love that you brought this up, because I think it's just, it's okay to just call it out. I'm feeling or we do this all the time in the house. (Brad: Yeah) It's like, I'm feeling impostor syndrome around this right now. And then when you pull it out of your head, it's all of a sudden, like, it doesn't actually have the power anymore, doesn't mean you don't have the feelings anymore. But it doesn't have that power. And then you can actually talk about it. And sometimes it can feel really silly, or sometimes it can go, "Oh, it's because I'm not doing this thing over here. Because I'm not doing this thing over here. I have impostor syndrome about this because I don't feel authentic. Okay, so know I know what I need to work on."

Brad Crowell 17:21  

Yeah, yeah, I mean, and, and one thing you can do is actually write this down. Because I find it a lot easier when I'm looking at something is, then I can, kind of analyze it from the other side. But this is all mindset, right? Like, when you when you're receiving something in and it's negative, well, how do we from an objective perspective, like third party? What if you could stand on the side of yourself and look at this happening to you? How do you look at it and see what could be positive about that? Right? So if you're experiencing impostor syndrome, in a way of like, "I don't know why I'm the one that was picked to teach this class" or something like that, write that down. And then I think that will allow you like, "I don't know why I was picked for this," you know, then it will allow you to go, "Maybe I was picked for this for something else." And you can kind of see that. (Lesley: Yeah) When I'm, when you're looking at it, I find it's easier. And it's this is a very strange internal dialogue. And it's only really started to be available since I started doing journaling. Because I've never really written things down, especially my feelings in that way. Or like what I'm struggling with or worried about. And you know, it when you're just writing it out, suddenly, you can can say, "Alright, well, what if, what if this was a positive for me instead of a negative? How does that look? What is that actually?" (Lesley: Yeah) And then you can focus on that.

Lesley Logan 18:52  

Yeah, and maybe, maybe write down the questions you're gonna ask yourself, when you're having impostor syndrome, when you're not having it so that you have this list next to your desk. So it's like I don't like then you can like go through the questions that work for you. I really liked that.

Cool!

All right. So finally, let's talk about those BE IT action items that you covered with Kasey Jo Orvidas. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo? I will jump in right here. And we, I kind of already hit hinted at this actually looks like I ended up both of ours. But researching your thoughts. We were talking about those seven why's. Where did this thought come from? So if you this is the fixed versus open growth, sorry, growth mindsets, right? Where did that thought come from? Was that like something you inherited from a family member or from a teacher from another friend of yours, from an experience that personally happened to you? Why is that thought there? Is that thought really true? What is the evidence for that thought being true? What is the evidence against that thought? And then, you know, be basically like, a researcher of your own mindset, your own mentality. You know, why are you doing the things that you're doing and, and be willing to actually look at it?

Yeah, I really love that. I mean, we did this when we were doing the Artist's Way. And like, (Brad: Yeah) I like was like, "Oh, I don't cook." Because of this one time, my grandfather yelled at me about how I made a grilled cheese sandwich. Is that really like, what stopped me from learning how to cook?

Brad Crowell 20:34  

And also, (Lesley: Like so silly.) Well, it's also, you know, funny, because I think that is a fascinating example. In that you never told me that story before. (Lesley: I know.) And we'd been married for a long time. And I never heard that. And suddenly, through the process of journaling, you were like, "I just remembered something. (Lesley: Yeah) And I wonder, I wonder if this is part of my mindset (Lesley: Yeah) around cooking."

Lesley Logan 21:03  

Yeah. And you know, I mean, like, and I know that sounds like the Lesley it's just cooking. It's like, yeah, but that stop, that has stopped me from cooking for years, y'all. Like, we're talking Brad goes away. And I'm like, "I think I'm have some almonds for dinner. I think that's good. That's good." (Brad and Lesley laughs) Thank God for Postmates. Okay, here's me ...

Brad Crowell 21:23  

Well, I just want to give you to a little shout out since discovering that. What were the action items that you took?

Lesley Logan 21:31  

Oh, I started cooking a new recipe a week from this new co... from this cookbook from a restaurant that I love in Siem Reap. And I would have cooked a new recipe this week. But Brad cooked my cauliflower. And that was supposed to be for cauliflower bites. So we will we will start that when we get back. We will, I will put all of a big fat post it note, "Don't cook this head of cauliflower. It's for my new experiment."

Brad Crowell 21:53  

That's so funny. I didn't know that. But but but the reason I wanted to keep talking about this is because you identified it. Right? And then you talked about it. And then you made a, you made a decision. (Lesley: Yeah) And you took action and ...

Lesley Logan 22:10  

Well, it goes into my my BE IT action item. It says, "Write it out. What can you start today?" (Brad: There you go.) And thank you for setting me up for that. (Brad laughs) And so what, that's what I did, like I was like, "Okay, how.." Like, "How can I start something small today?" I don't want to take a cooking class, you all. Like I know I'm on a hobby hunt. That is not something I want. I don't want that kind of pressure. I just wanted it to be fun and easy. And so the first thing I made were these like fudge brownie, there's suppose to be balls, but I made them bites and they are amazing. And so it was like what I looked at all the recipes that I looked at which one would be the easiest one to start with. I did not take on, there was this one that I was like, "I love that recipe." But I didn't take it on because it was like a little bit outside my element. So I took on what I could and so I did write it out. I did look at it. And I thought about like, "Okay, what are some ways I can make this happen?" And you know, we have a lot of people who talk about writing things out in their BE IT action items. And this one was really specific. What can you literally do starting today? And so I feel like that's an even better BE IT action item then just to write it out. It's like, what is it that you can do right now? (Brad: Yeah) Because if you start writing out like, "Oh, I actually could start that one." And like you keep going, you end up getting a step that you can take. And it's going to actually tell your brain, "Oh, growth mindset. I'm taking a step forward in this." (Brad: Right) It's going to be the antidote to fear we talk about in every one of these episodes ...

You got the micro win (Lesley: Yeah) that helps you celebrate, (Lesley: Yeah) that helps your mindset. (Lesley: Yeah) Gives you confidence.

Yeah, so I've actually like I have I have also been making my own lunch now. Like every like Brad is not (Brad: Yeah) watching me go.

Brad Crowell 23:46  

And it's actually a real lunch.

Lesley Logan 23:47  

It is a real lunch. It is, we have more dishes to do every day now. So anyways, that's the other side of that. Well, I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 23:56  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 23:57  

How are we going to use these tips in your life? Let us know. I want you to screenshot this episode, tag the @be_it_pod, you can now tag @cactus_daddie, can also tag @coachkaseyjo with your takeaways. Please do this. So we know what you're doing. We want to celebrate you. We want to be cheerleaders for you and your DMs because we know how much you need that. I need that. We're all human beings. It's okay to need people to high five you for what you're doing. So tag us and let us know how you're gonna do this and share it with someone else who needs this. If you have a friend in your life who's like, "Ooh, we got to fix mindset that's driving me nuts." Just send them this episode and it'll just you don't have to say anything. It'll just nudge him right along. So thank you so much. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 24:36  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 24:39  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 25:12  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 25:23  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 25:28  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 25:36  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can. 

Brad Crowell 25:49  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time. 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Research your own mind, constantly question how you can or are growing. It takes more than good thoughts, it’s a purposeful practice that research psychologist, Kasey Jo Orvidas, takes us through to help us live in a growth mindset. If you have been feeling stuck recently or feel like you are doing all the right things but not moving forward, give it a listen! It could be your mind holding you back. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Research you own mind, listen to the words that circulate your thoughts
• Imposter syndrome doesn't have the be a bad thing
• Growth mindset vs fixed mindset 
• Cultivating the growth mindset 
• The book writing process and the importance of consistency

Episode References/Links:

• Instagram
• Health and Fitness coaching with Kasey
• Kasey’s Free Growth Journal prompts

BIO: 

Kasey holds a Ph.D. in Psychology and is a certified health and fitness coach, her expertise is in mindset and health behavior change. She has transformed hundreds of lives (and minds) in her coaching career, while also being published in multiple peer-reviewed scientific journals for her research exploring the relationship between our mindset and our health and fitness behaviors. After finding so much success within her own online fitness coaching business, she also created an accredited certification program (The Health Mindset Coaching Certification) teaching other coaches how to effectively use the science of mindset and psychology to develop lasting change with their clients. 

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Hey, Be It listeners. All right, let's talk about mindset. Not the buzzword, not the like, you know, everything that people are just like, "Oh, we're gonna do mindset," we're actually going to talk about mindset with an expert, a doctor and mindset to be honest. So Kasey Orvidas already, this is our guest today, and I really love this person. I actually Brad talked to me about her and he was in a coaching group that she was speaking in. And he was like, "I think this is something that you would really want to do." And so I looked at it, read all the stuff got on the waitlist, I was like, the first person, I was like, "I'm in, signed up." (Lesley laughs) And I really, I really, really enjoyed it because I think sometimes you know, stuff, but you're like, "Why do I know this? And this is the right thing." And then and then you're like, "Oh, look, there's science behind it." And so if you're struggling with your mindset around things, a) this episode is for you, Kasey has definitely got a lot of science behind it. But also like know that I think you're on the right track. If you're like aware of a mindset issue that you're struggling with a fixed mindset or, versus having a growth mindset. Great. Pat yourself on the back, celebrate that you're like, "Oh, I am aware that I don't like how I'm am in this area of my life and like I'm thinking about myself or what I'm capable of in this area of my life." And then please, please, please make sure you're taking notes. You can also go to the show notes. You'll see some of the questions she asked herself or she suggested you ask yourself when you're having these thoughts, because awareness is key and then you can take the next step and you can take some messy action you know how we feel about that. So here is Kasey Jo.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right, Be It listeners. I have a really great friend of mine, I actually got to study with this woman. She is everything you're going to hear them out as an inspire you and also make you take action and she has really, she's really the person that has figured out a problem and she's like, "I'm gonna go actually study this problem. I'm gonna get a degree in this problem. I'm gonna be a little obsessed with this problem." And I love this so much because I think a lot of times we just think oh, you know, whatever someone else will figure it out. But she went and did it. So Kasey Orvidas. Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you're up to these days?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 2:51  

Yeah, I'm super excited to be here in such a lovely intro. Thank you so much. Um, it's funny when you say it's like, I know what this problem is. And I'm gonna study. I'm gonna get a PhD in this problem is essentially what happened. Right? So, yes, my name is Kasey. I am technically I guess Dr. Kasey Orvidas. My PhD is in Psychology. I specifically studied how growth versus fixed mindset plays a role in how healthy we eat, and how often we exercise essentially looking at health behavior change from a mindset lens. Very interesting, because I feel like the word 'mindset' has just become such a buzzword and like popular like psych kind of like articles and social media venues and things like that. And there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. I love that it's like getting more popular. But at the same time, two people do not realize that there's an actual science behind this, like when I tell you I literally spent nearly five years researching mindset inside the mindset lab, literally, that's what it's called, says it on the door. It's a very, very, like specific targeted science and lots of evidence based practices around you know, cultivating a growth mindset, ensuring that you're not cultivating a fixed mindset, especially when it comes to the area that I've studied now where I guess the area that I teach in mostly is with health and fitness coaches. So, Lesley, Lesley was in my program, the Health Mindset Coaching Certification and in that program, I essentially walk health and fitness coaches through different aspects of behavior change in psychology and mindset so they can understand the science and evidence based practices but then be able to also like leverage that with their clients and with themselves which honestly was not actually what I had intended for the program but that has been the most consistent feedback is like, "Wow, this is actually really helped me with my mindset," which is very, very cool to me as well. In addition to the Health Mindset Coaching Certification, I also own a one on one health and fitness coaching business called KJO Coaching and I have five lovely assistant coaches on my team that kind of helped me out with that. And there we're just like continuing to try to bridge that gap between health and fitness coaching and like psychology, mindset, behavior change type of world. So I am a psychologist and I'm not a clinical psychologist, I'm a research psychologist and everything that I do and teach and practice is not necessarily like therapy or anything like that. But I am trying to blend the worlds of like psychology and health and fitness. And I'm absolutely obsessed with it. As you said.

Lesley Logan 5:13  

I think it's so cool. And so there's, there's a few things I definitely want to unpack in there. One, thank you for mentioning that it's a science because I do think a lot of people just think it's like part of the, like, it's out there with the yoga vibe and the breathwork and ...

Kasey Jo Orvidas 5:28  

Manifestation. Yeah. Mm-hmm

Lesley Logan 5:30  

Yeah. And it's actually like people are studying this, and there's science behind it. And then, you mentioned cultivating a fixed versus cultivating a growth mindset. And I want to talk about this a little bit, because I think some people might assume that they're born with the mindset that they have. But the way you say that cultivate it sounds like we are in charge of what we create, and how we think.

Kasey Jo Orvidas 5:53  

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Which is funny, because the way that you describe it is sort of what you're saying. A lot of people think that they're either born with, like a growth mindset or a fixed mindset. And that like, it's very meta very fast, because it's like, that means you have a fixed mindset about your mindset. (Kasey and Lesley laughs) It's like you actually, like you don't, you can change your mindset. But yeah, that's an entire like, could be a podcast in and of itself. (Lesley: It's like another level effects like you've gone really ...) (Lesley laughs) Literally exactly went off the deep end there. But with that said, yes, we absolutely do have control over our mindset. And what's even cooler is that having that control then has downstream effects to like pretty much everything else in our lives, whether it is health and fitness, or careers, our relationships, how we see ourselves, all of it, right. So knowing that you have control over your mindset, you essentially have control over everything else in your life. And that can sometimes be a little bit like overwhelming. And actually, it's interesting, because we have something called the double edged sword effects in the mindset research that essentially talks about how, as soon as you sort of have come to this place of almost like enlightenment, when it comes to growth mindset, and you realize, like, "Wow, I have control, you know, this is my responsibility. I can change and it's all up to me." That can feel a lot like, wow, well, that means you know, the area that I'm in right now, whether that's like, you're you're overweight, you're in a job that you hate, you're constantly going like, from toxic relationship to toxic relationship, suddenly, like, that's your fault. You know, like, I'm responsible for that, too. If I'm responsible for my ability to change and do something different. That also means that like, I'm responsible for the current position I've been in for maybe like a decade. Right?

Lesley Logan 7:34  

Right. And we added overwhelming. (Kasey: Right) It's like, I just went back in time, and to all the things I've complained about, and I was like, "Oh, wow, there we are, we're responsible for all of that. (Lesley laughs)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 7:45  

Yeah. Exactly. And we actually found that in the research was very interesting, because we're like, "Okay, great. We're helping people cultivate a growth mindset means that they're more likely to be successful, achieve their goals, do all this amazing stuff." But like shit, it's also increasing, like, their self blame, and their guilt, and like, shame around some of this stuff. So just like a very tricky thing to make sure, when we are cultivating a growth mindset in ourselves helping other people do that, that we're doing so in a way that removes the best of our ability, like the blame for where you currently are, you know. And you know in HMCC, we've probably talked about this before, but this is where like, the power of like, not yet, is really great. Because you can say, you know, like, "Oh, you know, I'm not where I want to be yet. Or I'm like working on all this stuff. But like, don't like no worries, like, I'll get there eventually. And I'm just not there yet. You know, it's like, not a big deal. You know, I'll get there." Instead of it being like, "Oh, now that I'm aware of, like what I'm capable of, I have so far to go and like shit, that's all my fault." You know? So (Lesley: Yeah) yeah.

Lesley Logan 8:43  

I'm, so I have I started a mentorship this year, where I have like, 15 people, and it's called eLevate, and it's really about elevating their, you know, their teaching their connection, the method and their own practice. And really, it's elevating how they talk to themselves and how they let their clients talk to themselves. Because some of them are like, "I can't, I can't do that. I can't, my body can't do that. This I can't do." And it's like, "Wait, whoa, first of all, a) would you let a client ever say that to you? No, you probably would tell them something different. B) if you say you can't, then you can't for sure." You will you're bo... like, right, our body and our brain are like, "Let me prove you wrong." (Kasey: Right) (Lesley and Kasey laughs) (Kasey: Can you imagine? Yeah) Yeah that be so funny if it revolted? And I'm like, "Let me actually prove you wrong." But but what ... so we talk a lot and also inside of OPC it's like, "If you are not able to do an exercise yet, then what can you do?" So we're trying to cultivate that like searching for possibility in that. And I it's a practice, right? Like this is not like you can become aware but then you still have to practice this mindset. (Kasey: Yeah, exactly)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 9:49  

Yeah, and it's interesting you say that too, because I think a lot of times when we're talking about like cultivating a growth mindset, try not to have a fixed mindset, things like that. People assume that like, okay, well once I have a grown mindset, it's like you don't have to practice anymore, there's no more effort or anything like that. And the reality is like, it's it's an ongoing practice, it's ongoing effort over time. And truly, I don't think there's a human out there who's like, 100% growth mindset in every different area of life all of the time, you know, like, even me who spent again, nearly five years in the mindset lab researching this stuff, I absolutely still catch myself with a fixed mindset and like certain things, or thinking, certain fixed mindset phrases, and stuff like that, but the difference is, right, is that I'm very, very good at catching it. I'm very aware of like, those certain words that trigger it, like, I always do this, or I can never do that. Or this is how it always goes, for me things of that nature. It's like, whoa, whoa you know, those kind of words, do like send sirens like in my head to like, "Okay, let's take a step back, like, what is it, what is actually going on here? What's actually true? You know, is there a different way we can reframe this and maybe more like growth, mindset oriented," that sort of thing. So it is really like an ongoing practice, and just being able to recognize, and I know, you mentioned a lot of like, self awareness and stuff already. But that's such a big first step, like people ask me all the time, you know, like, "What's the first step to really starting to shift my mindset to have more of a growth mindset? Like, how do I actually do this?" Right? (Lesley: Yeah) And the truth is, we have to become more aware of where the fixed mindset is showing up. So the things that we're saying to ourselves, like, how it's holding us back, like, in what areas of our lives, do we have more of a fixed mindset? Because that's another like big myth, right, is that you either have a growth mindset, or you have a fixed mindset in every area of your life, the truth is, like, you could absolutely have a fixed mindset when it comes to your career, but have a growth mindset when it comes to weight loss, right? So it's not just like a one thing or the other. It's very, very domain specific, the fancy way of saying it but ...

Lesley Logan 11:42  

Interesting. Yeah, it's also nice, that's also a really cool thing. Like it's totally okay, if at work, you're like, fixed like crazy, and we have things to work on, you can still have a growth mindset in other areas. And it makes me think of, we had this guy Rob on who talks about, like, happiness valleys and happiness islands. And it's like, if you have a growth, mindset area of your life, or you're really good at it, you know, you can tap into that how that feels, and what you're saying to yourself and kind of take it over to your, your mindset. (Kasey: Here we go, yeah.) I want to, I want to talk about just really quickly, because you mentioned a few, what are some of the like buzz fixed mindset words like the ones that send sirens off in your mind? Like, what are some of those words?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 12:25  

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So it's like, obviously, these words can be used in not fixed mindset ways. But a lot of times when we're saying things, like, "I always do certain things," or "I can never do other things like always, never." And another big one, too, that I hear a lot, especially like, from clients, and from coaches, it's like, "Oh, I'm just not the type of person." So it's like, almost like any sort of word or phrase related to like identity and like who you are. It's actually interesting, too, because thinking, more broad psychology here, but when it comes to like, stress and anxiety and things like that, you hear people a lot of times identifying as those things, you know, "It's, it's my depression, it's my anxiety, it's my stress." And the more you identify as that thing, versus like, I am a person who sometimes you know, struggles with anxiety, it's an entirely different thing, right? So and so much of this stuff, too, I mentioned all the time is like, you know, you hear like, "Oh, it's just semantics, like, this is not just semantics," and like the (Lesley: Right) words you choose matter. So yeah, anything related to identity thing, always saying never, things of that regard, can really be indicative and should, like I was saying that can be kind of like, listen for that stuff, whether you're saying it to other people, whether you're saying it to yourself, or you're saying in your head, listen for those things. And when you do start to pick up on them pick it apart. Where did that come from? Why is that there? Is it really true? What's the evidence for it? What's the evidence against it, and be kind of like the researcher on your own mind.

Lesley Logan 13:49  

I love those questions so much, we have to make sure they're in their notes, people can just copy and paste because that is it's kind of a way to, like take a 30,000 foot view of (Kasey: Yeah) yourself. And as you mentioned, get clinical about it. Okay, so you mentioned that you also like you can study this and you're not like misenlightened, you know, person over here with a growth mindset in every area all of the time. So, how, you know, you started your company, you're the CEO now like, how, how did, what was that mindset like what were the some of the things that you had to do to help yourself through imposter syndrome or anything like that, that you went through in in your growth?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 14:27  

Yeah, that's a really good question. What's interesting for me is that when I because I get this question often where it's like, "Well, what's your mindset like? What's been your process of like getting to a growth mindset?" And things like that. And I've definitely been like a high achiever in general. But when you bring up impostor syndrome, like that's something that I mean, I constantly deal with to some degree, right? When I was in grad school, getting my PhD I was the youngest one in my program because I went directly from undergrad into grad school. Most people take some time off or they like get experience elsewhere do whatever. So as the youngest there, and it's also a very humbling experience, just in general, going from undergrad to grad school, it's like you go from a place where it's like, oh, you're actually like, a, like a subset of like pretty smart people amongst like, 10s of 1000s. Like I went to University of Minnesota, it's like this huge, huge place, right? And then transferring into a smaller, like, subset program where like, everybody there is really good at the stuff that you're studying, you know, and they got chosen specifically, like, there was three of us who came in at the same time of like, my cohort in my program for my PhD, right? So there was a lot of like, "Am I actually good at this? Like, did they make a mistake? Am I actually supposed to be here," you know, that sort of thing. But I've talked about impostor syndrome in a lot of different ways. And one thing that I like to kind of chat about around it, I suppose, is that it's not always a bad thing. And like kind of reframing it in that way. Because I think the general narrative, right is that imposter syndrome is this thing we should always be avoiding. It's a bad thing. We don't want to feel that way. We don't want to feel like we don't know what we're doing or that we're not meant to be here or something like that. But the reality is, we have this effect in the psychological research called the Dunning-Kruger effect. I'm sure you've heard of it before. But it's essentially this idea that like, as you learn more, as you gain more knowledge, the less you actually think that you know, so I encourage people to take what is more of like a growth mindset viewpoint of imposter syndrome. And if you're thinking like, "Oh, man, am I actually cut out for this?" Or like, "Do I know enough to talk about this topic correct." I worked with a lot of coaches and a mentorship capacity. And one of their biggest concerns on social media is that like, you know, someone like Layne Norton, who's a huge name in the health and fitness space is gonna come and read their posts and tell them that they're wrong, you know, that they're talking about something incorrectly. And when we ...

Lesley Logan 16:48  

As if these people have the time. I mean like this also happens like in the Pilates world, people are like, afraid of like, what someone's gonna say, and I'm like, "They are not paying attention to you. No one seemed to ..."

Kasey Jo Orvidas 16:57  

They don't care about you. Sorry. Yeah, exactly. But this is like the hostage just like little fear, like, "Oh, what if someone like says that I'm incorrect," or whatever, and it's coming from a place of what would be what we call imposter syndrome, right? Like, I'm not good enough to be like, sharing information about the certain topics and things of that nature. But what we've been talking about kind of going through this, okay, the Dunning-Kruger effect is like, how about we reframe this to the fact that if you're worried about not sharing information exactly perfectly, and exactly how it's going to come across? And all these things like you probably know, way more than you're giving yourself credit for. It's the people who are out there posting stuff and don't care at all and are like, "Oh, I'm a genius. I know everything there is to know about everything, or there's no way anyone would ever come after me. Because I know exactly the best way to say this. Like, they're the ones who don't actually know, right? They, they're the ones who need more education and things like that." So like, when we explain it that way, and like, kind of have that conversation. It's like, "Oh, okay, that that makes me feel better." You know, because if there's ever a slight like, "Am I like, good enough? Like, can I actually do this," it's like, that's probably coming from a place that you actually do know, enough, you know, and that can be really just like calming and reassuring and that way. And ...

Lesley Logan 18:09  

I love that so much. Because I usually tell people, I'm like, I'm like, "If you have impostor syndrome, it is a sign that you're not a narcissistic, egotistical maniac." Take it as a compliment. (Kasey and Lesley laughs)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 18:19  

It's a good say, exactly. So like, even if yes, sure, it may be, there may be to some degree, may be an argument that we should work on that and like, try to get over that. Because here's the thing, right? If it's holding you back from doing things and like moving forward on things like yes, we need to like figure something out there. But that can be really helpful, just from like a mindset perspective to reframe a little bit, but also understand that even the people who are like doing really well and know a lot, honestly are probably experiencing the same if not more impostor syndrome because of how much they know. So a little bit of acceptance goes a long way. And it's like, how do we work with this? Instead of like, constantly just trying to like push it away and pretend it's not there? (Lesley: Right) I think it'd be really helpful.

Lesley Logan 18:58  

Yeah, I agree. I think it's, it is true. It's like, if it's holding you back, then that's the thing. But like, even I think with Seth Godin, I've heard him talk about impostor syndrome a lot. He goes, "If you're new at something, especially you should feel like an impostor." That's the definition. (Kasey: That's so true. Yeah. Right) So I think like, it is interesting how we're constantly trying to avoid something. But that that thing we're avoiding can also be a flashlight into either you do know a lot so congratulations, or it could be it could just be a sign that you are new, you can actually care that's why you're feeling like a little nervous about it. (Kasey: Yeah) And and so if it's not holding you back, like you know, let it be let it be a feeling. When you when you went from college, you had your degree now you're like, you've left the lab, and you started started doing your own company. What what was that like? Was it because you study mindset? Was it easy for you to like, step into the mindset of like, "Okay, this is who I'm going to be. So if I step on that mindset, it's easy." Or is it still a practice even if you have studied all of it?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 20:00  

I think it's, it's interesting because I am like so passionate about what I do, right? So some of it's so fun for me to like, do what I get to do. So a lot of this is even if there is like a flicker of like, "Oh, am I actually been able to do this thing? Am I actually gonna be able to step into this role? Am I actually going to be able to assume this identity, whatever it is," it's sort of like, doesn't, it doesn't really matter though, because like, I'm gonna try anyway, I'm gonna do it anyway. Because this is something that I really enjoy. And I'm really passionate about, I really love and I really want to be doing, which I think is like, it's sort of like a shield for a lot of things. If you can be doing something that you're truly, like, intrinsically motivated and passionate about, that can be a shield to imposter syndrome, it can be a shield to just like, just not feeling good enough. In general days where you're feeling unmotivated, like stuff like that, like having that same goes for like health and fitness, you know, you can't get to the gym. But if you are intrinsically motivated to do that, or like to go do Pilates, you know, for those who are listening, and maybe that's a little bit more relevant. There's, you're still thinking yourself, like, "Well, this is really like, what makes me feel my best. And this is really like what I do, this is who I am," that's what's gonna get you there. So I do think some of that is not necessarily different for me, but it's different for anyone, if you have that sort of passion. That said, I still felt like a little bit of like resistance of moving into more of like, a CEO or like boss role. You know, I have five assistant coaches, I have like a graphic designer on my team, you know, I work with like, in ads team, and like all of this stuff, and to be the person who's kind of like calling the shots. I've always done that for myself, but not necessarily for like a team of people. So that is definitely something that was a little bit of a... And I'm still learning, right? Still learning how to best like manage people and help people. I'm constantly figuring out like, "What's a better question that I can add into my end of week surveys for my assistant coaches, so I can like have like, help them grow personally, and develop (Lesley: Yeah) and do all the things that they want to do." But for me, it's like, I think maybe from a mindset perspective, and having like a growth mindset, and understanding that I'm just always looking for ways to improve and get better. And I know that I can, if I can, you know, put myself in the position to learn more experience, more, have mentors and things like that, who can like kind of show me along the way too. So (Lesley: Yeah) to me, it's more, it's less of like, "Can I do this? Or will I be good at this? Or am I going to be successful about this?" And with this, and more about like, "Wow, this is a new thing that I get to learn about. That I get to like improve on. That I get to develop these skills." And like, actually remember saying to like getting into my business full time, the number of just like different like terminal landing pages, and you know, like, Oh, my God, just like lead magnets. And like all of these different words, I'd never heard literally, within the first like six months to a year, what going full time in my business, I'm pretty sure you learn as much as I did during my PhD, you know, (Lesley: Right. Right) like, it's just like, so much new stuff, and so much opportunity. And like, I love that. I love like, because I spent so long, studying something so specific that like, it was very rare that I came across something that I didn't already know, honestly, being like, that's, I mean, that's what you do in a PhD, right? It's like, you get really specific on a very, like, I was looking at mindsets for health and fitness behaviors. So going into a space where it's like, wow, this is all new stuff that I don't know yet that I have, like a chance to, like actually get better at and like, learn something different, was really exciting to me. So,

Lesley Logan 23:14  

But also like, I love the way you're looking at it, like, "I get to do this." So it's very different than like, here's another thing I don't know. And so that's another it's kind of like having the mindset of seeing the possibility and seeing that we get to do these things. And I know for myself too, it's like, I, it's like a new level, new devil. Right? That's why they say it. There's there's of course I all the things we're talking about before we hit record, like, we have grown so much since I saw you last year like it is insane. We have 25 people on the team, there's a fourth company and things are moving a mile a minute, and sometimes I'm like, "Oh my God, am I cut out for this?"

Kasey Jo Orvidas 23:50  

Can I actually withstand this?

Lesley Logan 23:51  

Yeah. And, but I find myself going okay, like, you know, practicing what I preach. It's like, well, what, the person who runs this company, the person is the visionary of this company, what are they thinking? What are they doing? What are they studying? What do they need to know? And that's helping me pick out new podcasts to listen to, like pick out new books to read, like really doing that. So I want to know, are you... is this something you ask yourself these questions? Do you journal? Do you just talk to yourself in your head? Like, are you bouncing things off? Like people are gonna want to know? Okay, hold on. (Kasey: Yeah) Who's, where are you asking these questions? Is it a journal? What's the process?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 24:23  

Yeah, yeah, for me, it's a lot of just like, honestly, I think like, in my head, you know, it's the time that I, the 10 minutes in my car from the house to the gym. It's you know, a little times like that, where when I'm like on a walk, or like in the morning, and I'm getting ready, and I'm just kind of like thinking like, "How do I want to show up today?" You know, like, "Who do I want to be?" Like, "Well, how do I embody that?" And constantly thinking like, I mean definitely like different books and podcasts just to kind of like, get my gears turning in that way and start to think, you know, like, "Okay, well, how can I improve this environment for you know, my, the assistant coaches on my team? How do I make sure that they're getting the most, that they're doing things that are playing to their strengths and that they're finding joy in the work that they do?" Because ultimately like that's going to impact the clients. And that's an impact people company, you know, so? And how do I be a better leader doing all of those things? So I think it's just a little bit for me, gosh, I don't know, I was like, definitely not like, I don't sit down and like with journal prompts or anything like that, but it's a little bit of just thinking about, like, "Who do I want to be?" And like, "What are the steps to get there?" And like, "Who do I need to learn from to do that? What research resources do I need?" I kind of like reverse engineering from there, which is interesting now that I think about it. Because a lot of times, that is what I use with like, clients and coaches and stuff, like, "Where do you want your business to be?" Or like, "Where do you want your body and your lifestyle to be?" And then we kind of like work backwards from there to figure out like, what the steps are like, what do you, what can you literally do like today to start working towards that?

Lesley Logan 25:43  

Yeah, that this is I'm obsessed with this, because that's to me how I have always achieved any goal. It's like, I go to the goal. And then I just work backwards until I (Kasey: Yeah) can't get it to like a step I can take today. Because I find when you take an action step, it helps with the mindset. So you can tell (Kasey: Oh yeah) yourself, "Okay, this is what I want to do." And then you take an action to kind of like solidify it. And it, it's what's it's almost like, it's like a bounce, it's like an echo effect, right? Then the (Kasey: Yeah) action tells the brain like, "Hey, we're doing this." And so you start, it's like, it's a domino effect of that. So thank you for sharing that. Because I've, I find that people, they don't make it small enough. So even if they're listening to this, and they like are working backwards, they're not often able to take it smaller, like I was listening to James Clear, talked about how people like, they know they can't run a marathon tomorrow. So they're like, I'm gonna run for 15 minutes. But maybe they really need to just put their running shoes on, like if you've (Kasey: Yeah) never ran (Kasey: That's so true) or you haven't ran in a long time. And it's like, just keep taking it back. And we had Jill Flodstrom on and she was talking about, you know, get things down to things that take two minutes, because then you you, we always have two minutes here and there. If you can (Kasey: Yeah) get everything done into a two minute task, then it's easy to take those action steps and kind of (Kasey: Totally) get the ball (Kasey: I love that) rolling. Yeah, yeah, I was like, "Oh, I love that too." I'm not organized enough for that. But my team is loving it. (Kasey and Lesley laughs)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 27:06  

That's funny. It's true, though, because it's like, "Okay, if you can do it in two minutes, like what excuse you really have." You know, (Lesley: Right) Like, "Come on." (Kasey laughs) Yeah.

Lesley Logan 27:14  

Well, because and if you can't, then you'd like are really holding on to, your wrist like ... (Kasey: Yeah) Oh my God. Okay, so what are you, what are you working on right now? So not necessarily you got you've cultivated your growth mindset. And that's always a work in progress. But like, where where are you trying to challenge yourself these days to grow?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 27:34  

I'm writing a book. (Lesley: Oh really? This is amazing. Yes, girl.) Oh, my God. And let me tell you talking about challenging. Did you know it takes a lot of time to write of book? (Kasey laughs)

Lesley Logan 27:44  

Oh, yeah, I wrote one. (Lesley laughs) (Kasey: I actually didn't know that. That's amazing.) I did, (Kasey: Yeah) I wrote one. (Kasey: Oh my goodness.) And I had to help, I had someone like helped me break down like, you have to like you, I guess you could just sit down and write. But like, (Kasey: Right) she actually wrote books. And she is like, you know, ... "Let's start with like, what's the goal of the book? What's this? What's the chapters? (Kasey: Yeah) What goes in each chapter? I want to see bullet points." And (Kasey: Well done.) then you can, and then go work on the chapter because now you've effectively outlined the chapter. (Kasey: Yeah) I, it took me, I had to go to a Starbucks every Sunday. So I would just sit down and write for an hour and a half (Kasey: Do nothing but that. Yeah) Yes. And I would do an hour and a half, because I wouldn't have to get up to pee. And that's how much the parking meter was. So hello LA. (Lesley and Kasey laughs)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 28:30  

Oh, my God, that's so perfect. I love that.

Lesley Logan 28:31  

Yeah. So you're writing a book, this is amazing. Tell me more.

Kasey Jo Orvidas 28:35  

So it's been honestly, it's already been sort of like a year in the works. But I have, like two chapters done and a proposal and an introduction. So I am working with an editor to get it out. It's currently out there in the world, trying to find a publisher (Lesley: Cool) to publish the book. So that's kind of the status that we're at right now. And it took a long time getting there. It's one of those things too, like these first couple chapters that I'm going out and saying like, "Hey, I'll write the rest of it. Like those couple chapters need to be really good." Right. So that said, I mean, this alone with a couple chapters in the introduction, and the proposal, I think, is getting close to 100 pages, like it's a lot darker (Lesley: Yeah) already. But so the book is a little bit since probably more than I've shared so far. I know it's like tease, I've been teasing about it like on Instagram and stuff but haven't really like talked about what it is. But a lot of it is kind of like taking the Health Mindset Coaching Certification and like walking through, you know, the different aspects of motivation, self control, habits, growth versus fixed mindset, stress all of those areas, and essentially giving the reader like tangible like little exercises within the science of those areas. So (Lesley: It's so cool.) same kind of thing that I always like to do, right. It's like teach the science but then give you like tangible tools to actually design your mindset in the way that you need to in order to be successful in your life and your health and your fitness. So it's essentially a mindset book for health and fitness enthusiast.

Lesley Logan 29:58  

I am obsessed with this, I think this is really great. It's my, my, my mind pictured all of it. And I love, I love that there is like tools in the chapter because hello, everyone knows I'm about action. And it's like you can learn about it. And then it's like and then and then what do I do with this (Kasey: Yeah) information that is now in my brain?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 30:16  

Yes, you will love it. I literally am like to my editor is like, "I want a full blank page here where people can literally write into the book and write their notes down." (Lesley: Yeah) Like fill in the blanks and all the stuff. Yeah. So and (Lesley: That is so ...) relatively interactive.

Lesley Logan 30:32  

That is so cool. Well, really quick. So I was just listening to a woman's podcast because I really want to get this woman on my podcast. So her name is Heather Monaghan. Anyone who knows her, please help me get her on. Okay, so she just shared, she shared in her episode that came out yesterday. So it's like Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan. And she shared how long it took her to get her book proposal done. Her agent made her do 15 edits, 15 edition, like 15 (Kasey: rounds) rounds of her (Kasey: Yeah) proposal tell she's like, "Nope, you can do better. Nope, you can do better." Then she shopped it around. And they 15 different publishers actually, like wanted to look at it. She got two offers, but it took like a year. (Kasey: Oh yeah) And she's like honestly, she's like, "I had no idea how long it takes. So just so you know, it takes a really long time. They're not in any rush." (Kasey: Oh my God.) So just so you know, you might hear crickets for a long time. And apparently that's, that's normal.

Kasey Jo Orvidas 31:30  

Bring it on. And yeah, it's like it's one of those things to where like, this is sort of a life goal for me. I've always loved writing even when I was younger, I was like writing novels about like polar bears when I was in second grade. (Lesley: I love this.) So I've always wanted to write a book, it really is sort of like a life goal. And I'm very fine with this being like a 2025 thing, like no big deal. Like I'm here, I'm here for the long haul. But I do think it will be a different experience. And I'm sure you being a business owner you can attest to this where it's like prior to like getting like a book advanced and having someone like on my ass about deadlines. I had so much other stuff that needed to be done like immediately. So the (Lesley: Yeah) book was very like these couple chapters, the proposal stuff like that was very much like backburner. So part of the fact that it took over a year to like get to this point is truly just because I didn't have like the quote unquote 'motivation' to do it. So (Lesley: Yeah, I, I ...) but it will be different once it's like okay, "Now we're writing the rest of it."

Lesley Logan 32:19  

Yeah. No and I that's why I had an editor as well that had to have a chapter a weekend. I had to have a chapter weekend and I had to review the edits last week. And so it was this process like what like held a fire under because I self published that one because I talked to some people and the reality is is like there was not enough people think about becoming Pilates instructor for a publisher to pick up my book ... (Lesley laughs) (Kasey: Probably true. It's very unique. Yeah.) I know it's very unique but we just hit we just actually updated the whole, the updated the whole book and it's so it's it's been nine years, eight years, nine years and we did a an edit ... (Kasey: Like a second edition. Yeah.) Yeah. (Kasey: Cool) And then anyone who has ebook got the new edition, it's all branded, the new stuff in there, it's actually really interactive and I'm really excited about it. But it is even just doing the second edit was like, "Oh my God I have to do this again." (Kasey: I'm sure you're like having like PTSD flashbacks.) (Kasey and Lesley laughs) I did. I did. I was like, "Okay, I read through it. Everyone else it's on your plate now." So (Kasey: Yeah) oh man, I'm so excited for you. This is great. Well, you have to keep us posted. We'll have to have you back on when you when you get your you know, release date and all that stuff. (Kasey: Yeah) Okay, Kasey, where do you like to hang out? Where can people learn more about mindset from you? Where where's all your stuff at?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 33:33  

Yeah, so I spend the majority of my social media time on Instagram. I am dabbling in TikTok but I'd say it's probably not even really worth following just yet. (Kasey laughs) Give me some time. But on TikTok, on Instagram pretty much anywhere Pinterest, you can find me I'm @coachkaseyjo. It's coach with the C and Kasey with a K and Jo without an E. If you are interested in any of my free resources, workshops, programs, coaching anything you can pretty much find all of that on my website and that's kjocoaching.com

Lesley Logan 34:04  

Amazing. All right. So we ask everybody Be It Till You See It action items. So bold, executable, intrinsic or target steps people can take right now to be it till they see it. What do you got?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 34:14  

Um, I actually feel like so much we talked about falls into like a lot of those categories and like, "Man, that's like the episode."

Lesley Logan 34:21  

I know it is. (Kasey: ... make sense. Right?) Well, yeah, for the people who like to fast forward to the end and like get the cliff notes. You can (Kasey: Right) you can bullet point them out.

Kasey Jo Orvidas 34:29  

Yeah, no, definitely. I think a lot like based on like what we talked about in everything here. And like, just think about mindset in general. There's just like taking that action step and right thinking about the person who's like, this may be a little bit like cliche and corny but it really does work, right. It can really like direct your decision making strategies. But think about like okay, that person that I want to be. That successful person, that person who's lost the weight, that person who's like finally a successful Pilates instructor, like what would they do today? Like what is their schedule look like? Like, what decisions are they making or if you're having a hard time deciding, if I should do this, or should I hit post on that Instagram posts or whatever it's like, well, what would that person do? And if the answer is they would post without hesitation then post without hesitation, you know, a lot of this is like, we just kind of need to prove it to ourselves. And in doing so you will cultivate more of a growth mindset, because you're kind of showing to yourself that you can change. That you can do these things that maybe you weren't sure, like, sure you were able to do before.

Lesley Logan 35:23  

Yeah. Oh, I do love that. I do love that. That is, somebody has been helping me get through this new growth stage. It's like, okay, but what would that person do? What would they do? (Kasey: Yeah) Did they frustrated by this thing? No, they would even know this thing happen. (Kasey: Take your energy? No.) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I find myself talking to Brad about all the time because if I'll get upset. I'm like, "Why are you doing that?" You know, like, you can do that. But like, who else could do it right now. And he's gotten (Kasey: Right) so like, just, I mean, obviously, with the way the business has grown, he has to. But also like, he's like, it's a mindset thing. It's like having to switch that mindset of like, going from being the doer to being the person who like looks at more high level and, (Kasey: Yeah) and that's because he had to think about what would this person do in this role? And they would think it more high level. Kasey, you are so fun, you're amazing. You're, you know, you're so smart. But I really do love how you broke down mindset for health and fitness and everything in your program. And people if you are interested in that, definitely check it out because it really, it's, some of it is so validating. It's like, "Oh, yeah, I've been doing this already with my clients." And so I was like, "Oh, that's a better way to handle that." And it really does make a massive difference. And so for us, we we implemented and all of the programs that we have, is really trying to help cultivate that growth mindset in our communities. And I really just appreciate how you you didn't make me have to go to a mindset lab and do a PhD. So thanks so much. (Lesley and Kasey laughs)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 36:48  

Yeah, that's like a fast track, right?

Lesley Logan 36:50  

Yeah. All right. Well, everyone, how are you going to use these tips this information in your life. Screenshot this episode, tag, @coachkaseyjo and the @be_it_pod and let us know so that we can hear what your takeaways are. And also so that your friends and family can hear it too because sometimes having a growth mindset is really hard if the people around you don't have it either. So this can be your way of like little tap on the shoulder for that. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 37:50  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 38:01  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 38:05  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 38:14  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 38:26  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Embracing tension to create lasting, sometimes drastic changes for a life you are proud to live. What are you willing to do to have the life you want? 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• How LL and Brad disconnect
• Putting a timeline on your goals
• The weight of boundaries 
• You can’t compromise yourself to connect with others
• Intentionally make decisions that align
• Complaints are flashlights into areas that need change
• What are you willing to do for the things you want? 

Episode References/Links:

• Control Your Balance Challenge

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the passionate convo I had with Michael Unbroken in our last episode. If you haven't yet listen to that interview, feel free to pause this now, go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us. Can I just say, "Go freakin listen to that episode." I'm gonna just use his words, "Go fucking listen to that episode." And by the way, when you listen to episode, maybe if you have children in the room, you don't want them to hear the F word more than I say it or Brad says it ...

Brad Crowell 1:11  

There's a lot of F words.

Lesley Logan 1:12  

I know. But he uses them so strategically.

Brad Crowell 1:15  

Oh, I mean, it didn't bother me at all. I just I just had to read the transcript (Lesley laughs) while listening to it. I was like, "1, 2, 7, 10.5." And I was like, "Okay. Alright, I'm in." I mean, he speaks like I speak, he thinks like, he definitely is challenging, more challenging in that way than I than I think. I think he's he's embraced this willingness to to create tension (Lesley: Yeah) and confrontation in a in a matter of fact way like he's not antagonizing you confrontation. But (Lesley: Right, right.) you know like, like, "Hey, this is the black and the white of it." The you know the truth of things.

Lesley Logan 1:56  

... the truth of things. And I think you'd like to tell us to people when we are in like coaching calls, you're like pressure builds diamonds like stress is like there's there is a good stress and so that tension that he creates, it's it is forcing you to work with like even like, like take your mind on a workout to really get honest with yourself because I think ...

Brad Crowell 2:18  

It's gonna make you, make you be uncomfortable, which he talked a lot about.

Lesley Logan 2:21  

Yeah, yeah. Anyways, we could have called it 'the uncomfortable conversation', but we like the (Brad: yeah) positive words around here. (Brad: Yeah) Before we get into Michael Unbroken's recap, I wanted to say we are days away from the Control Your Balance Challenge. (Brad: Yeah) And so those of you who have access to a reformer, we are kicking off a week long journey, the OPC teachers are joining me, we are facing some fears.

Brad Crowell 2:45  

Sure are. Lots of balance. And you know, like challenging exercises that are easy to avoid.

Lesley Logan 2:52  

Yeah, and also here's the deal if you're like, "Oh my God, I can't do that exercise." That's why you should join us. (Brad: That's a whole point.) The whole point is not that you're going to roll off the reformer and roll back on and like you know, carry strug... this shit, you're gonna actually ...

Brad Crowell 3:07  

I don't even know that reference, but we'll go with it. We'll go with it.

Lesley Logan 3:11  

Oh, that 9... the 96 Olympic team Babe, the women's gold medal Atlanta, she landed, she the pommel hor... like, you know the, (Brad: Ah) what do you call it? Where they run, they jump, spring, land, she landed on one leg, on one leg she stuck it. (Brad: I vaguely remember this.) And she had that little tiny hop. Anyways, the Control Your Balance... off reformer is you land on one leg. Hello, so thank you for going in my journey, all the girls listening knew what I was talking about. (Brad laughs) So at any rate, the goal is that you are actually going to learn how to build yourself up to this exercise. And then if you are able to go on and off, great icing on your cake, that's fine. But everyone needs to put icing on their cake if you're going to leave the week with a tool, strategies, tips and confidence that you can apply not just to this exercise, but any other advanced or super advanced exercise. So you can go to onlinepilatesclasses.com/control to snag your spot. And did I mention it's free? So (Brad: It's free!) Yeah. (Brad: So you should join us.) Join me for a week. Okay, audience question, Babe. What do we got?

Brad Crowell 4:13  

All right. So I decided to ask a question this week of us. (Lesley: Yeah, he gonna inspired by Clare.) I did. I got inspired by Clare. And I was like, "Well, I want to ask a question." So basically, I want to ask this question to you, the audience members and then I'm going to ask this to Lesley as well and we ... (Lesley: Well, I'm gonna ask it to you.) and then she can ask it to me and then we can all ask it to each other, kumbaya. A question is, "What do you do to disconnect?"

Lesley Logan 4:48  

So that's your question audience. So I hope you're like you know, taking them I think you should answer it out loud wherever you are.

Brad Crowell 4:54  

Yeah and disconnect. What I mean by disconnect is not necessarily from like devices or electronics, but that could be how you take it. But what I mean is like, we have our busy, crazy life our dreams, goals, like what we're chasing. Right? And, but there always needs to be some kind of a reprieve from that. And so and that ... (Lesley: Like a recharge.) it can't be forever. Yeah, recharged.

Lesley Logan 5:22  

You put your phone on charger at night, you got to put yourself on a charger at some point.

Brad Crowell 5:25  

Yeah. So what do you do to disconnect or recharge? I like that.

Lesley Logan 5:29  

Yeah, well, I'll say, I think it has changed. Like, I think it will probably always change because like, what you need changes because we change. But um, for me, I remember using flights as a way to disconnect that was, oh my gosh. (Brad: Yeah) Oh my gosh, especially the flights to Asia where there was no internet. I'm like, "17 hours, no one can talk to me." (Lesley laughs) (Brad: Yeah) And then I was so excited when I got off the plane. I'm like, "Whoa, let me see all the people." It's probably why people, I told someone this yesterday, at an event we were at, they didn't believe when I said, "I was an introvert." So I'm actually just really tired there's a lot of people and they're like, "You're an introvert?" I'm like, "High functioning." Like, I am going to like lay down after this and be really chill. So depending on how much recharging I need to be or where I'm at, I can go for, I like to go for a walk. I like to get ... I like to workout those kinds of like movement meditations with myself are really recharging. I actually like to just sit in journal in the mornings, that's I disconnect every morning that way, I mean, connecting to myself, and I love my new red light therapy. But I try to find disconnection time every single day. And I have to say shout out to Sam, who changed all of my 'Do Not Disturbs'. All of them are on these amazing timers. And then like I don't have to do them. So like I am disconnected from certain things at certain times of the day that don't apply to like my day. And so you can't like there's like endless amounts of ways to disconnect, even when you have to stay connected. So what do you do?

Brad Crowell 6:58  

I think that's amazing. And I don't disconnect. I guess I guess I guess there's that's true. There's like a sense of distraction. So like, I'll, like pull up a video game. And I'll play a video game for a few minutes. (Lesley: ... that's a distraction. You're right, that's a better word for that. That's not disconnect.) Yeah. Well, it's, especially I got I noticed now, if I have a session, a hard session of thinking and concentration and focus, I feel taxed. Like I actually feel like, okay, you know, I need to, like not be in front of my computer right now. And that is maybe when I'll go for a walk or listen to a pod. Maybe that's what I'm making lunch. And I'm like, that's kind of almost a sense of disconnecting, because I know I'm going to sit down for another session. But what I like in my mind, what I meant was kind of bigger picture. Every year being an extrovert, I I really gain energy from being around people. And I love to be around my favorite peoples. So my closest friends and we go once a year to Joshua Tree. And when this episode is coming out, we will have just returned from four days in the desert. (Lesley: I'm coming with this year.) And yeah, I'm very excited that you're coming.

Lesley Logan 8:12  

I took a break last year. I took a pause. (Brad: Yeah) And I'm so grateful because of that pause I booked a trip to Hawaii. (Lesley and Brad laughs)

Brad Crowell 8:19  

You did. I got a text message when I came out of the desert. And it was like, "Hey, we're going to Hawaii." I was like "What? Okay, great, amazing." But there's something... So first off, I'm truly disconnected. There's not even cell phone reception where we go, it's just in the Joshua Tree National Park and they don't cover most of the park. So you know, when you're when you're deep in the park, there's just no bars of reception. (Lesley: Yeah) So you're completely disconnected from that. You know, and you're disconnected from email and you are, you know, your your, your, there's no one able to get a hold of you. (Lesley: Yeah) And you're not able to get hold of anyone. So, you know, you're with you'd be prepared, you show up with everything that you need to survive because it is a survival. But also it's amazing because it, I always find I get there and I'm stressed. Like when I get there, I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm gonna I got all these things that I didn't finish or I got to do and all this stuff," and then it takes about a day. And on day two, I get to wake up and I go, "Ah, right, I'm here on purpose, even though I know I have this mountain of stuff I got to do. I actually need this time to like be in nature and you know, put my feet on the ground and you know, drink a beer and hang out and you know, enjoy like walk among the cactuses" because there's a million of them there. The Joshua Trees are unbelievably epic, and be with some incredibly supportive and encouraging and amazing people in my life and that is been something that I've done every year. We've only missed one year because COVID (Lesley: Yeah ...) 2020 shut down the park. (Lesley: That's because they cancelled us.) They cancelled us. But otherwise (Lesley: We'll still go) it's been something that we've been doing since like 2009, 8 9 10. No. So I met him and ... so 2011 I think. So, (Lesley: Yeah) more than 10 years now. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 10:16  

Yeah. Yeah, we I was like, "Oh, you and I were still gonna go because ..." I mean, we're going to be outside by ourselves the same, like by ourselves inside. But at any rate, that is a fun disconnection. And I think, you know, whether or not you can do full on camping trips, you have to find little pockets of time. And then ideally, a big pocket of time. I mean, all the people that I admire, when I hear they say that once a year, they take a week off, and no one can get a hold of them. (Brad: Yeah) A week off. And it's like, "Oh, that would be amazing."

Brad Crowell 10:49  

Someday, we're doing it.

Lesley Logan 10:51  

Maybe this year, maybe this year. We're gonna plan a a one week. You can't get a hold of me. (Brad laughs)

Brad Crowell 10:57  

I love it. Okay, well, I hope to hear from you, (Lesley: Yeah) how you disconnect and what it is that really recharges you and lights your fire. You can tell us in on Instagram, just send us a DM to @be_it_pod. And you know, if it's something that you are okay with us sharing, we'll repost or put it in our stories and all the things we would love hearing from you. It truly is why we do this. We love connecting with you. So make sure you reach out. And if nothing else, just say 'hi'.

Lesley Logan 11:29  

I love it. We really love to connect with you even though we want to know how you disconnect with us. (Lesley laughs)

Brad Crowell 11:34  

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Connects with us to tells us how you disconnect ...

Lesley Logan 11:37  

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (Brad laughs) Okay. Here we go.

Brad Crowell 11:40  

All right. Now let's talk about Michael Unbroken. As an overcomer of trauma and abuse, Michael Unbroken is an author, speaker, coach, podcast host and he finally decided to accept, who finally decided to accept only the things that aligned with his ideal life. Michael is on a mission to end generational trauma, through education and information in his lifetime. (Lesley: Yeah) Now, I, I've read his statement multiple times. And I listened to him on his show multiple times. And I just want to say I love that he has put a timeline on his goals for everyone to hear, "In my lifetime, I want to end generational trauma. In my lifetime." Right? He didn't just say, "I want to end generational trauma." No, he's got a definitive date on it. (Lesley: Yeah) And that is, it lights a fire under him. Like, "I only have my lifetime to make this happen. So I better get moving."

Lesley Logan 12:39  

Yeah, I actually like that you bring that up. I I think that's really extremely important. Because I think some of us are like, "By the time I'm 40. And by the time I'm this, I'm gonna do these things."

Brad Crowell 12:50  

Oh, that's a timeline. But I mean (Lesley: That's a timeline.) people, no, no I think people say like, "I always wanted to open my own studio." (Lesley: Yeah) But then it's like, okay, that's amazing. But when?

Lesley Logan 13:01  

When, when, when when? (Brad: Yeah) Yeah, somebody tried to tell me like, "Oh, I listened, this person and they like are anti goals." And they actually to say, "You should have like just objectives." And I was like, okay, so an objective is a goal. And you still have an any company who has objectives, you still have to put timelines on them. Because that is how the entire team knows what to work on. I think like people are just getting caught in the semantics. The point is, putting a deadline on something makes you take action towards it. If you don't take action towards it, it's not about excusing it away. And you'll if you are someone who does you gotta listen to Michael Unbroken, because he is going to put some call you out on that in a good way.

Brad Crowell 13:42  

Powerful and passionately.

Lesley Logan 13:43  

Yeah, but also like, there is nothing wrong with you missing a goal. It's only if you don't sit down, reflect and understand what corrections you didn't make so you continue on that goal. (Brad: Yeah) Or you are working on a goal that you actually didn't want, and just sounded really good then I'm glad you didn't work on it. And now you know, you've reflected, you can correct and continue. And I think like, I think it's okay, in fact, I think it's important that you put frickin timelines on things.

Brad Crowell 14:08  

Well, what you just said, is hinting directly at with the the talking point I wanted to talk about today. (Lesley: Okay. So so you want to go in first in. It's that your saying?) Yeah, let me jump in. (Lesley: Okay, go.) You said, "It's okay if you if you didn't do it, and you realize you didn't want to do it. That's okay." So he specifically talked about well, he kind of said, "I wouldn't be on this podcast if I didn't check you out and find out that we aligned."

Lesley Logan 14:38  

Did you, do ... I know when you listen to that you like, "Oh, Lesley love that." (Brad: Oh, yeah, yeah.) Words of affirmation. I felt so loved, felt so safe. (Brad laughs)

Brad Crowell 14:45  

Well, you know, I just I thought it was very strong. I thought it was clear that he knows himself, and that he knows what his goals are. And if there isn't alignment, you know, then he's not going to go. Now he used an example about going to a see a show a country singer show whatever. But the you know, the point is, and I think that the hard the hard part of this is, you are exercising that muscle that says no. Right? And you're also learning, which kind of does hint at what you are going to talk about. But also he said I thought this was amazing. His summary of that entire section was, "If at any point, I feel like I have to bend or placate myself and chameleon, myself, who, who I am. And the only reason why is so that I feel connected to you. I refuse to do it." And then he said, "But I still gotta do the damn dishes."

Lesley Logan 15:52  

Yeah. But I I really appreciated him actually talking about that. And that's I had asked him like, "But what about bills? What about the dishes?" Because I think people use that excuse, well I still to do those things. So I'm gonna go to the country show, so I feel connected to you. It's like, that's actually not, that's not the same thing. You do the dishes, because you don't want to have frickin bugs. And you don't have stinky house and you need to have clean dishes. You don't need to go the country show to connect to that person. You can find other ways to connect that person if you want to be connected to them.

Brad Crowell 16:22  

Yeah, I think there's a fine line here that I want to kind of dig into because I value relationships. (Lesley: Yeah) And I also am open for compromise. Right. But and so I don't think that ...

Lesley Logan 16:35  

You mean, when we went to the Crowes concert, and we went to the wrong, it was not what we thought we gonna be.

Brad Crowell 16:40  

Yeah, we went to the Black Crowes. (Lesley laughs) Yeah, we ... (Lesley: Not the Counting Crowes.) Yeah, well, you know, and that was an amazing concert. I'm glad we went. But we went there in order to connect with our friends, who we are, you know, we were are still, you know, making here in Vegas. And so that was the intention, the intention, for from my perspective, it didn't matter what the music was. The point was to hang out with them so we can get to know them better, eat dinner with them, and then go enjoy some music. Right. And so, you know, I don't know if it had been ...

Lesley Logan 17:14  

You would not have gone if it had been a country music concert. (Brad: I guess that's ...) Because they have been like, "Hey, it's like Garth Brooks. Do you want to come with us?"

Brad Crowell 17:23  

No, probably would have just said, "I'll go to dinner." (Lesley: Yeah) I guess that's true.

Lesley Logan 17:26  

So but there you go. So you can actually still also, there's just, there are other ways to connect. If you want to connect with someone, you can also just say, "Hey, do you ever do these things? Or are you guys gonna go to dinner beforehand, because I'll meet you for that." Like, if you are, you don't have to compromise yourself to connect with people. And I know from like, past relationships, I was in I they had to do all these networking events. And we'd go to these places, I don't have to dress a certain way. And it's like, "I don't wanna dress like this. I don't want to dress like this to connect with these people. I will, can we just go to a different dinner where I can dress look like I want to dress and if not let go without me. I don't want to I don't want to do that." And you end up not being the person you want to be when you show up. (Brad: Yeah) And so then you're not even connecting with them anyways, because you're not you. You're a persona and so ...

Brad Crowell 18:09  

Yeah. You're not your authentic self.

Lesley Logan 18:11  

Yeah, no, I frickin, I'm obsessed with like, agree and only the things and so that might make you have to stop and say, "Hey, let me get back to you." Or like, read the text and don't respond and then make a note to think about it and ask yourself if it aligns, you might it might take you a year or so to figure out what actually aligns. If you've been saying yes to a lot of things that don't, you might not know what you want to say 'yes' to right now.

Brad Crowell 18:34  

Yeah, take a pause, you know, definitely, that I think also, there's a second part of this, which, you know, that I've talked about this before, there's the whirlwind. And then there's the steps that actually move your business forward or move your project forward. And, you know, I think that's kind of what he was alluding to with the dishes, the dishes of the whirlwind, the dishes have to get fucking done. Someone has to do the dishes, right? And he even talked about his mentor who's a billionaire. He's like, "Even my mentor, someone who sometimes has to do the dishes." Right? And he's like, "So I got to do the damn dishes." But when it comes to the other things around the whirlwind, outside of that stuff that like that stuff just has to get done. He really does intentionally make decisions based on alignment. And, and that's something that, you know, I we would encourage you, I would encourage you. You know, I think the hard part is, maybe it's a friend that you're going to end up, maybe changing your plans with, but it could also be your spouse, right, and you've been I'm not I'm not opposed to compromise. "Hey, last night, we watched this movie. This night I want to watch this movie." But also you know what? Maybe that compromise is like, "Hey, what if you just watched the movie on your on and I'll watch my movie on my own." And you actually also have alone time. You don't need to be connected at the hip. You know?

Lesley Logan 20:06  

Oh my gosh, you don't?

Brad Crowell 20:07  

I know. So weird. (Lesley: So weird. Okay, my turn.) Yes, your turn because like I've now hinted at yours like twice and I ...

Lesley Logan 20:15  

Okay. Well good you just basically hinted it again. So he talks about regarding boundaries, complaining isn't changing anything. The greatest form of challenging the understanding of who you are, is by learning to say yes and no, based on your wants, needs, interests, values, moral character and boundaries. Ooh.

Brad Crowell 20:31  

I mean, this is like, this is like the underlying foundation of how he carries himself. So why don't you read that one more time?

Lesley Logan 20:38  

The greatest form of challenging the understanding of who you are, is by learning to say yes and no, based on your wants, needs, interests, values, moral character and boundaries.

Brad Crowell 20:46  

I think you should emphasize the word 'your' (Lesley: your) wants, needs, interests, values, moral character and boundaries.

Lesley Logan 20:54  

Yeah. And also, so last week's episode, one of the BE IT action items was get to know yourself. And if you were like, "Yeah, yeah, I'm in." And then you're like, "Wait, how the fuck do I do it?" Here you go. Take a piece of paper put wants on it. Next piece paper. Next piece paper you're gonna need it. Needs. Next piece of paper, interests. Next one, values. Next one, moral character and next one, actually, the boundaries are going to fill in, after you fill out all those other things. Because guess what the boundaries are? The things that have to say yes or no to to make sure that those things happen. So if you want something that's different than you have today, you're gonna have to do something different than you're already doing. Which means you're going to have to say no to something so that you can do that, you're going to have to say no to things you're currently doing. We had to say, for me to do, all that we're doing in our business, we've had to say no to a lot of people wanting me to do workshops. (Brad: Yeah) It's not that I don't want to do them. I've really like doing them.

Brad Crowell 21:22  

I mean, it was also like, how the entire business worked before (Lesley: Yeah) we were intentionally telling people, "Lesley is available for workshops." And then at one point, we were like, "Lesley's not not available anymore." And people kept asking, and I was like, "Ah that's a really great opportunity. (Lesley: I know.) Can't."

Lesley Logan 22:06  

I know I told a girlfriend yesterday. And she's like, "Yeah. I'm get, I'm booked up for the year and they still have more calls." I'm like, "Put a $10,000 price tag on it and girl." Make it or make it 20. Make it a number that you can't say no to. So that if you have to leave your house on a busy week, you can do that. But the point is, is like, really, you're gonna have to like, let something go, you're (Brad: Yeah) going to have to do that. And so that those boundaries are going to be created after you fill out all those other things. And it's going to be a muscle. (Brad: Yeah) It is not going to feel easy to say no to someone that you usually say yes to or you like and so you want to say yes to like Brad says he's like, "Yeah, I'm pretty good at compromising. I might just go." It's like, yeah, but what is that 'yes' taking you away from? Because (Brad: Sure) if you're saying yes, that is taking you away from any of your wants, needs, interest, values, moral character, then your boundaries are not in alignment (Brad: hmm) period. And so I feel like that is an ongoing thing, you will do some boundaries. I'm super super, like so clear on it's like, not even a problem. And then some, it just depends on the day, depends on who asks. You know, so you start to like, but you'd be really careful with that. Because if you are going to have a VIP list of people who get to break a boundary, you need to have that list. Otherwise, anyone can get on that list, because it just you know ... (Brad: Yeah) boundaries. I also just want to talk about complaining isn't changing anything. I, it's okay to complain but if you have the same complaint more than one time, in a short period of time, you my friend have a very good magnifying glass, a flashlight on area of your life, you need to make changes. You cannot negotiate with that on me. I'm sorry. The reason Brad and I are even together is because a girlfriend of mine kept freaking complain about his stupid scarf she lost. And I had that scarf. And I had very few things in life at the time I just moved. I just went from being homeless for three months to actually having an apartment and I had that scarf. And I had that scarf and 18 legal boxes of clothes. And that was fucking it. And I was like, "I'll give you his scarf. If you shut up about it but you have to get me a date with Brad." So this is how much I don't like complaints. I don't mind hearing them. And I find myself complaining too. I'm not like, you know, so like, I don't have a complaint. But Brad knows if I complain about something more than once I'm like, now I'm pissed at myself because (Brad: Sure) I hate it. And I'm pissed that we still are in this situation. (Brad: Yeah) And I'm like we have to delegate, delete, delineate or postpone this thing because it's not working in the current thing and I am pissed about it ... (Brad: delegate, delete or defer) Defer. I knew there was another D word. Anyways, my point is complaining isn't changing anything. So it's okay if you complain, but write them down and then notice if you've had the same complaint, go back to your wants, needs, interest, values and moral character, create a boundary around it.

Brad Crowell 24:59  

Yeah. And I'm going to bring up a fourth point, because I just can't help myself. There was so much in this episode. So seriously, go back and listen to it again(Lesley: Oh My god. The fucking best.). And then listen to it again. (Lesley: And again, you're gonna pick out different things.) Yeah. So he said, when you were talking about change, he said, the, he was talking about a fixed mindset. And he said, "The worst possible thing that you could ever say, is, well, that's just how I am, period." Because that's the ultimate fixed mindset, there is nothing that could happen, that will allow you to change that perspective on yourself. And he said, he literally said, "You've lost at life. If that's what you're saying, that's just how I am, then it's over for you. You're not you will not change, there is no change that is gonna happen." And obviously, if you're listening to this podcasts, you want change. So take a quick look, if there's anything, it doesn't matter about, like, whatever it is, it could be relatively innocuous, it could be, you know, you're you're digging in on something that, you know, is is a 10 year argument between you and your spouse that where it's like a big confrontation point. If you're saying that's just how I am, you know, you are unwilling to change. (Lesley: Yeah) And that is that is not going to help you move forward to get to the things that you want to be doing with this life.

Lesley Logan 26:27  

Yeah. That's, that's really powerful one. I yeah, I couldn't agree more, you have to listen to this several times and he has his own podcast. So if you need a kick in the pants every fucking day, (Brad: Yeah) you can go get it from him there.

Brad Crowell 26:43  

All right. So finally, let's talk about those BE IT action items. What both, executable, intrinsic, or targeted action items, can we take away from your conversation with Michael Unbroken? And I thought it was so cool. You you said, Lesley, you said listen this with so many takeaways already in this episode. But if you just had to tie it all up with a bow, what would you say? And I was like, "Oh, that's clever. It's a clever way to to summarize that."

Lesley Logan 27:11  

Well some ... will give me all the action items in the conversation and like, "um." So

Brad Crowell 27:15  

Well, he said, "Ask yourself, 'What am I willing to do to have the life I want to have?'" (Lesley: Yeah) And that was his one BE IT action item. What am I ask yourself the question, "What am I willing to do to have the life that I want to have?"

Lesley Logan 27:34  

I would love to, you know, audience we are asking you a lot of questions. I would love to know what you are willing to do. I just, I really, I sat with that question. Because he was like, the last thing of my day that day. And so I just like, (Brad: powerful) was powerful. I think you were gone. (Brad: It was passionate.) Yeah, I think you were in Cambodia. And I was just like, "I just had time to think about it." And I remember thinking, "Oh, there are some things that I still could get rid of." It's kind of like you clean out your closet. (Brad: Sure) And yeah, it's cleaned out. And then you're like, "There's still not enough space." Because there's like more to clean out because you kept some things because of sentimental value, (Brad: Sure) you know? And the reality is, is that like, you might have to like, "Are you willing to, like throw everything away and start over? Just like start over?" (Brad: Yeah) Like, "What are you willing to do?" And so maybe it's not drastic, but like, "Are you willing to wake up an hour earlier to work on the thing you want to work on?" (Brad: Yeah) Because you that is the only time you have peace and quiet? Like, "What what are you willing to do?" And so he also brought up a couple of bullet points that are just there just to like, reiterate this just to like, nail it in, no one is going to hand it to you.

Brad Crowell 28:51  

No one is going to hand you what you want.

Lesley Logan 28:54  

No, not even Oprah. Even if you wanted a car, I think you'd pay the taxes on that. (Brad and Lesley laughs) So no one gonna handed to you.

Brad Crowell 29:01  

He also said there are no excuses. He said, "When you're asking yourself this question, 'what am I willing to do to have the life that I want to have?'" There are no excuses, just results.

Lesley Logan 29:10  

I think that's actually really freeing, because you can just excuse things away and like, you could just be in that world, or that spiral or that thing forever.

Brad Crowell 29:18  

Well, think about this. There are no excuses, just results. Everything is a result, whether it's a good result, or a bad result. (Lesley: Yeah) It's the result of action or inaction. Is the result of your decision on that action or inaction.

Lesley Logan 29:37  

Well also like, sometimes you'll take the action and you're not gonna get the result you wanted. But does that mean you don't have to have an excuse for why it didn't work? You can just go, "Okay, what happened? Next step, get results. Next step get results." Like you don't actually have to sit and excuse away the thing, it didn't work because I had this, I had, like, I got sick in the middle of it, blah, blah, blah. It's like nope. (Brad: I didn't do it.) It didn't, you didn't do it, (Brad: Whatever it is.) and, okay, you're not an asshole because you were sick. But you got to guess what you had to do? You get to do it again.

Brad Crowell 30:09  

Yeah. And with what are you willing to do to have the life that you want to have? You know, before this, he had said, "Show me your calendar. And I'll tell you, if you're willing to do it."

Lesley Logan 30:22  

You'll see a little gemstones in there.

Brad Crowell 30:24  

Oh, yeah, there was so much. There's, like a usually I, I can listen through and I, I understand it. And I, I actually slowed this one down. And I took my own notes on this, you know, even though Amanda produced this I, I was reading what she was writing, I was reading what he was saying. I was like, wow, and I kind of rewrote it in a language that I would use so that I could remake, make sure I remembered these points (Lesley: I think it ...) because it was amazing.

Lesley Logan 30:51  

I think it also depends on where you are in your life, too. Right? Like, you are a almost like my ... likes to say, "Almost 40." (Brad laughs) (Brad: Almost) And Amanda is just getting out of grad school in her early 20s. And then there's (Brad: Sure) like ... (Brad: perspective) So, I think, no matter who you are, there are a fuck ton of gems in this. (Brad: Yeah) And when Brad said relis... or re listen, save this episode, it's really easy to do. You can do it on any place that you listen to podcasts, and then set, put, set a timer in your calendar for a month from now, two months from now, just a random day and time to re listen to this episode. (Brad: Yeah) You can put the link in there. So it's really easy to click on it. And that way it comes up and you listen to it again. My bet you will he'll he'll hear different things from the episode just on the changes you've made to get the wants, needs, moral values that you want to have in your life. So y'all, Michael wants to know, we want to know what are you willing to do to have the life you want to have? I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 31:47  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 31:48  

Thank you so much for listening to us today. We are so grateful you are here. So really, no truly what are you going to do? Let us know by send us a DM at the @be_it_pod on Instagram and we'll catch you on the next episode.

Brad Crowell 31:59  

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 32:02  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'. 

Brad Crowell 32:35  

It's written produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 32:46  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 32:50  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 32:59  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all videos each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 33:11  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Stop complaining and start changing. From personal experiences and over coming extreme trauma, join this conversation with Michael Unbroken to learn how to stop living with regrets.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The impact of past experiences and the theft of identity. 
• The process of evolving to the person you want to be 
• Building confidence through uncomfortability is self care
• Complaining isn’t changing anything
• Be honest and understand yourself to step through the fire
• Agree only to the things that align 
• The fixed vs abundance mindset
• TEAM - Time, Effort, Energy, Money,
• How bad do you want your dream life? 

Episode References/Links:

• Website
• IG

Guest Bio:

From homeless to hero, Michael Unbroken, is the Founder of Think Unbroken, best-selling author, award-winning speaker, podcast host, coach, and advocate for adult survivors of childhood trauma.

At 4 years old Michael’s emotionally incestuous mother cut off his right index finger, she was a drug addict and alcoholic. 

At 6 his hyper-abusive step-father beat and hospitalized him.

At 7 he was molested by a den mother in the Mormon Church.

From 8-12 he was often homeless and in deep poverty and did what it took to survive from stealing food and only bathing at school.

He got high for the first time at 12 and drunk at 13. By 15 he was expelled from school for selling drugs.

At 18 he found himself deep in The Vortex and began chasing money to solve his problems.

By 25 Michael was 350 pounds, smoking two packs a day, drinking himself to sleep, and attempted suicide for the second time. 

Then he had his mirror moment and decided to stop being a victim of trauma and to be the HERO of his own Story! 

Since 2016, Michael has empowered over 100,000 trauma survivors to get out of The Vortex, learn to love themselves, and become the hero of their own story. Michael has written multiple books including the best seller Think Unbroken: Understanding and Overcoming Childhood Trauma, spoken in over 80 countries, won investments from Undercover Billionaire Grant Cardone, and is on a mission to end Generational Trauma in his lifetime.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Hey, Be It listeners, get ready. This guest, well, brutal honesty is exactly what you're gonna get. And I am freaking stoked for you. I am so grateful that Michael Unbroken said "yes" to come in on this podcast. And I really need you to hear this, I really, really do. So if you're listening to this podcast while you're doing other things, you're gonna want to save this and re listen and you're gonna listen again and again and again. And I really, truly hope that you listen to the BE IT action item at the end with a journal in hand. Or go for a walk outside without your airpods in, go outside, but your feet in the ground and like answer the question, really, really answer it, and maybe have to answer it again tomorrow. And again, the next day, and then again, the next day, and if nothing is coming down. If you're like, "Lesley, I'm stuck." I'm gonna say, "Do it again, again. Do it again, again. Do it again and again and again." And the reason is, is we like to tell ourselves a lot of stories. We get in our own way. And yeah, there's obstacles and yeah, there's tough shit. But we get in our way more than anything else. And so I'm not gonna keep going because I cannot wait for you to hear the words of Michael Unbroken. So after this message, here he is.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Hey, Be It listeners I have an awesome guest today. I'm actually really excited. We're going to leave fully inspired and ready to take on each and every day because we have Michael Unbroken here. And I have to say I listened to him on my friend Amber Shaw's podcast - Wellness Revolution, and I was fired up. And there was also some moments was like, "ooh, I want to talk about this more" because I love the way you think. I can't wait to dive in. And I also know so many people like, "But wait, what about this? But wait, what about this?" So Michael, welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you're all about these days?

Michael Unbroken 2:38  

Yeah, well, thank you for being here. It's an honor. And I am me. That's who I am. And, you know, my my thing is I work with adult survivors of childhood trauma. I'm an author, speaker, coach, podcast host do a little bit here, do a little bit there. But ultimately, my mission is to end generational trauma in my lifetime, through education and information, so that another kid doesn't have a story like mine.

Lesley Logan 3:05  

Well, thank you for the work that you do. And also, I think there's a few questions people will have, which is just like on how did you get into this work? And what maybe even like, what are the effects? Like what do you see in kids when you see this generational trauma happening?

Michael Unbroken 3:22  

Yeah, well, I mean, this is my life, you know what I'm saying? So, I got into this, because I was like, on my own journey, just trying to get my shit together, you know, after about 6000 rock bottoms. And one day, someone was just like, "Hey, man, when you coach me," and I was like, "Fuck, no." I have no idea what I'm doing. I barely know what I'm doing with my own life, I can't help you. And they were persistent. And I was like, "Alright, cool. Well, it's X amount of money, let's go for it." And that was six years ago and thousands of people later. And you know, the thing about this journey, as I mean, you know, you look at the fact that from just a statistical standpoint, and I would argue this number is actually too low. 83% of adults in America have experienced the adverse childhood experience. And I would say it's probably realistically 95% if not more, if you consider non reports and homes like mine, where if you talk about it, you're gonna get fucked up worse than if you didn't. And, you know, it's one of those things where I believe that unfortunately, because we live in a society of unhealed people, and you've heard the adage, hurt people, hurt people, you get a continuation of that. And so you see it everywhere all the time. You know, people always talk about trauma is this thing about this mental health aspect and they're right, except they're missing a piece of the puzzle. Like for me growing up, like my mother cut my finger off when I was four years old, she was drug addict and alcoholic. I was homeless as a kid. I lived by myself for months at a time. I stole food to survive, didn't graduate high school, my three childhood best friends got murdered, like I can go on and on and on. But that's still not even the thing. (Lesley: Yeah) The thing is the theft of our identity was stolen from us. And so you see all these people trying to live life, but they've never had been allotted of the space to be them before. You know, because growing up, you think about this, like, what's the brain's purpose, survival? (Lesley: Yeah) You doesn't give a shit about your shirt, doesn't care about your goals? Nothing. It's like, "What do I need to take from the stimulus of this environment to differentiate safety versus danger so that I can keep my ass long alive long enough to procreate?" That's it. And so when you recognize that as an autonomic response, your brain says, "Wait, all right, when I'm a child, and I try to be me, it's unsafe. So because I need to survive, I'm going to stop being me." That becomes the real thief of (Lesley: Yeah) identity. And that leads you to this place where you're an adult, you have no idea who you are.

Lesley Logan 5:56  

Yeah, and I think like, thank you for sharing that. And also, so many people can be listening to this and going, "I don't know who I am." And they might even be caught up that they didn't have a childhood, as tramatic as yours. But I think you're correct. So many unhealed people parenting, there's a difference like it... it's okay, if you don't know who you are, and your childhood wasn't as tramatic. It's still you still don't know who you are. And you still have to figure that out. You know, and I think a lot of people might even hear this and even think, like, "Oh, I didn't have it that bad. So I just, it's gonna be fine. I'll just, I'll just keep doing it the way I'm doing it." But you're on this mission to make sure that everybody is living the best life that they have that everyone is being themselves, right?

Michael Unbroken 6:38  

Well, and look, I'll say this, like people will say that all the time. And it's funny if like, when people come into coaching with me, I'll be like, "So what's your point? Like, this isn't a competition. I don't live for you. I don't breathe for you. I don't love for you. I don't get up and go to work for you and build your life and raise your kids and have intimacy for you. I don't do that for you. So what does that have, what does my story have to do with you? Nothing." (Lesley: Yeah) You know and so the thing here is like, people have to realize like, that comparison game that we play as a cop out. Somebody had it worse than you, somebody had it worse than me, somebody's eating filet mignon on a yacht right now. What does that have to do with me? Nothing. And so the thing about this journey is, you've got to be willing to come to this place in your life, where you just simply first and foremost, just acknowledge, like, something's wrong. Like, I'm not living life into the potential that I have, then you recognize something very important that people miss out on and that's causation and correlation. See, we're the sum total of all of our experiences leading up to this moment. That means every single thing that's ever happened to us matters, it impacts as it does, whether you like it or not, you know, think about this, you're in third grade, your miss, miss class, and you're like, sitting there, coloring a house, and you make the sun, purple. She comes up to you and put her put their hand on your shoulder, she goes, "You know, Lesley, the moons and the sun are not purple." And you're like chastised in front of the class, you're embarrassed, they all hear it, they laugh, your brain goes, "Oh, wait, that was super dangerous. I don't ever want to be me again." Right? And so that's this game is like recognizing that there is a reason behind all the actions that we have, and all the behaviors of our life, and having the willingness to recognize the truth, that the only way that changes is you have to foundationally and fundamentally challenge the belief and narrative that you have of who it is that you think you are, because you actually don't know. And in that process, being willing to step through, honestly, the hell in the struggle of self discovery, because that's the only way it changes.

Lesley Logan 8:46  

Yeah, cuz it is the hell of the self discovery it is, it isn't the easiest thing you could do. Otherwise, everybody would have done it already. It's almost easier to not be yourself to go through and play the comparison game, even though it's painful. It's easier because you don't have to go through the depths and figure out like, when were the spots? Who are the people? Relive those experiences. So, you know, for yourself and for you, do you coach people with this? Like, what is what is that first step? Is it just recognizing that you're, you're not who you want to be?

Michael Unbroken 9:19  

Yeah, 100% and acknowledging it and being okay with it and giving yourself some grace and compassion, and people will hear my voice and they're like, "Oh, this guy's super intense." Yes, that is correct. But I'm also very kind. I'm very compassionate. I'm very patient. The truth is like, you have to kick your own ass at points and times in this journey. And I think we're, we're so unbelievably afraid of doing that, because everyone only tells self care. And I'm like, "Don't you realize that the greatest form of self care is in the moment of struggle by doing the thing that you know, you need to do to make your life better?" Journaling ain't gonna fix your problem. You know, yes. Do I do I subscribe that? Do I do it for myself? Of course I do. And meditation and yoga and working out and name it, I do it, I swear to you this is true. But in the true moments of growth, you must be willing to nakedly look at your life and go, "I'm not doing as well as I could, because of the choices and decisions I'm making," while simultaneously reconciling the fact that you've been set up for failure, and that the only way that you're going to overcome this is to build confidence. And the only way to actually build confidence is to consistently do incredibly, uncomfortable things.

Lesley Logan 10:34  

Yeah, that is, so that's the number one question I get all the time, "How do you create confidence?" And I believe it is consistency. And I want to go back, because you mentioned going to the gym, and you mentioned like the hard things and self care, we do think of it as like, "Oh, massages, journaling," you know, maybe some other things in there. But even the way you built like when we build muscle, where we're stressing the muscle or breaking it down to build it stronger. And so that, to me, is really important because going back to what do you say like, you have to like go through the hell the depths of it, figuring out who you are. All that pressure, there's good pressure, too, there's good stress, too. And I think we tend to go, "Oh, if I need to take care of myself, I have to avoid all of that." But there's a balance in there that we have to maintain.

Michael Unbroken 11:20  

I am such a proponent of forcing yourself into discomfort. I mean, and I practice what I preach, you know, it's from getting up early to training for marathons, and doing CrossFit to sitting in silence, like that is so fucking uncomfortable. Just sit there and discover the truth about who you are. And in that, you will build that muscle, you will create a sustainable ecosystem to survive in. But you've got to be willing to push yourself there. And, you know, I wish there was an easy solution for this that didn't involve like this moment of, like, honestly, like figuring out who you are through the pain. But but it's true because when my life, I'll paint you a picture, when my life was me, not addressing the reality of my potential. I was 350 pounds, smoking two packs a day, drinking myself to sleep, cheating on my girlfriend, making six figures and 50 grand in debt. (Lesley: Hmm) Life was easy. And we think about that, it's like, "Alright, cool. What do you want? Who do you want to be create yourself?" And in that it's about you have to be willing to look at the bullshit that you sell yourself as truth. (Lesley: Yeah) And that's hard. Like, it's hard because we want to avoid it because it's, it's uncomfortable. It should be because look, and I'm gonna say this, and people need to hear what I'm about to say. You're not good enough to be the person that you're capable of being yet. And the only way that you're going to get there is by making a decision of who it is that you want to be, and diving in, like, figure out who you are, and commit to it. Because on a long enough timeline, you will become that person. 11 years later, from the moment I went and looked in the mirror and asked myself, "What are you willing to do, I'm here speaking to you? (Lesley: Yeah) And I'm still not even remotely close to the person that I want it to be because I haven't learned the right skills, met the right people, went to the right courses, read the right books. And it is a progression, just like building that muscle because I know who I want to be in 37 years, and I'm not good enough to be that person yet.

Lesley Logan 13:45  

Right? Because it's a I think we easily think, "Okay, what do I have to do to get there and then I'm there. And then I'm there." But there isn't a there there. It sounds like it's right. It's like, this is what you want to be and you're working towards it, in 11 years, and like, look where you are. And yet there's still more to get you there. And it's not a perfectionist thing. It's a constant discovery and a challenge thing and a perfectionist thing is like, "Okay, now that I've got the outfit and now that I've got the job and now that I'm doing the journaling, and now I'm going to the gym and so now I'm there." And so I think that's you know, yet is such a powerful word that we don't often remember to put on the end of a sentence. The the question I know that listeners are having is, "Okay, so I'm wanting to work on myself. I want to actually get to know who I want to be. And that yet I've got this partner, these kids, this job." Obviously, I mean, like is it that they let it all go? Is it that they try to like see who they become and what stays, stays? Like where what happens when you're in the middle of a life that isn't the life you want? Where do you go?

Michael Unbroken 14:52  

When are you never in the middle of life? You're always in life, this is it, this is the game. Right? So here's what I think about two things come to mind. There's so much context. And even with your question, it's still quite vague. And there's so much context in this, right? Because the thing that you have to take into consideration is, everybody has something different going on. But the one thing we all have in common is the ability to make decisions about what we want in our life, (Lesley: Yeah) and to recognize the cold, hard truth, that at any single moment in which you are negotiating with yourself about what you want, you are going to die with regret. And that is the thing that people get trapped in, because they're like, "Oh, but I have the job. And I have the relationship. And I have the lease." Do you how many times I've heard somebody say, "I want to travel the world." And I'm like, "Cool. I've done it, too. I've lived in 12 countries, let's go." And they're like, "Oh, but I have a lease." And? Keep making excuses and keep watching your life not be different. You know, you want to change, I want to change, do you want to change? (Lesley: Yeah, yeah, yeah) I want to change. I don't want to be this me tomorrow. That's not the point of this. I want to evolve, evolve and evaluate where I'm at, and do what it takes to go to where I want to be. Jay Z has one of my favorite quotes of all time, says, "People around you saying that you changed. Why didn't do all this work to stay the same." You've got to recognize as you're in this journey. You shouldn't be changing. You shouldn't be different than where you are. And the truth is, some people are going to come with you and some aren't. There are seasons here, right? (Lesley: Yeah) So people are here for a season. Some are... Now I definitely don't want you to abandon your kids, right? No, I think that's chaotic. And then they end up getting coached by me, it's not the greatest deal. (Lesley laughs) But but what I will say is like, "Is your partner bringing value to your life? Is that career that you spent 20 years on fulfilling you were making you want to contemplate shooting yourself?" Like this real talk shit, right? And you've got to get really, really clear about what you want. And be brutally honest with yourself. The one thing that I know to be true about anyone that I've ever coached that has seen success come through these programs is massive honesty.

Lesley Logan 17:07  

Yeah. (Michael: massive) And honesty, I think and that's where a lot of people get stuck is that massive honesty. Because there's a story they've told themselves so much that it feels true. Yeah. So something that I know you, you do is they know a lot. Like you love boundaries, you say no, you don't do things you don't want to do. Was that easy for you to do? Or like, did you also struggle with that too, because I, I am a big fan of boundaries. I love them. It's not really hard for me. However, something I hear a lot from our listeners, it's really hard for them to say no, it's hard for them to back out of plans they've made it. They don't want to let people down. What do you got for them?

Michael Unbroken 17:49  

Yeah, well, I mean, look, keep complaining, not changing things. And nothing's going to be different. Like, I know, that's hard. And so you're in this position in your life where like, I'll give you a perfect example. Like if you invited me, let's say you called me like, "Hey, man, you want to go to see Travis Tritt? I'd be like, "He's country, right?" You'd like, "Yeah, he's great." I'm like, "Hell no." Why? Because think about this growing up. Well, let's create some real context because I want to give people something a foundational understanding. We learn to bend who we are for safety. Right? Going back to what we were talking about earlier, this there's causation here. One of the things that I discovered very young, and I knew I was actually cognizant of this as a kid, is that I would do whatever it took to fit in. I'd listen to the music you like, go to the classes, you wanted to go to, dress like you. I used to have kids call me out like, "You're a copycat." I'm like, "I know, because I don't know how to be me. So I'm a chameleon." And what happens is, you recognize that, eventually, that doesn't serve you. And you're in this position where you have no idea who you are. And so now you have to challenge that. And I believe that the greatest form of challenging the understanding of who you are, is by learning to say "yes and no," based on your wants, needs, interests, values, moral character, and boundaries. And so when I think about this, you know, at 26 years old, I had this really pivotal change and shift in my life. And in that the next three years, were the most incredibly difficult years of my life way more than anything else, because these were the beginning of this year as of self discovery. And so it was me doing a whole bunch of different things to figure out, "Is this who I am?" Then in that the thing that I want folks who are listening to take away is the only way you're going to discover who you are is by discovering who you are. And so that means when your gut is like, "Yo, I don't want to do that say "no'." And when you're like, "Yes, I absolutely want to showing up and going through with it," even if it's scary and uncomfortable, you know, there's something to be sad about that moment in which you chase your dreams as an adult. Like (Lesley: Yeah) our imagination is stripped so way not only through abuse, if that's the case for you, but hell just living in a society that says, "Don't chase your dreams, but watch everyone else has theirs." And you see the change makers in the world, they're the ones who are willing to step through the fire anyway. (Lesley: Yeah) Like, like, I think about that moment in which you're at the precipice of walking through the doorway, right? Think about this, you know, this person, you've probably had this experience yourself, where you like, you pack the thing that you needed, you got in the car, you drove there, you're outside of the building, you're gonna go and do that thing, whatever that thing is, it doesn't matter. And then that moment, you make a decision, that's where life happens. And so for me, I only and when people understand this, it will change your life. And this is not hubris. I'm not being crass. I literally mean this, I only do what I want to do. And I never do what I don't want to do. Now that's framed through my values, my moral character, my wants, needs, interest and boundaries. So if you hit me up, and you're like, "Hey, I heard you in Amber Shaw, you're great. And I go and check your shit out. And we are not in alignment. I'm not coming on the show." (Lesley: Yeah) Even though you want me to.

Lesley Logan 21:28  

Yeah, thank you for being here. (Lesley and Michael laughs)

Michael Unbroken 21:32  

Well, obviously, we're in alignment.

Lesley Logan 21:34  

We are. Well, we are. And like I, I, you know, for the cynic ...

Michael Unbroken 21:40  

Good. (Lesley: bills ...) I like them.

Lesley Logan 21:43  

Bills, how do you like, who wants to pay those? Are you pay them because they're part of the value system that you have? Like, do you know what I mean, these people who are, there's people out there who are going to be they're gonna challenge you on this? And they're like, "Yeah, but what about, you know, taking out the trash? What about these things?" Like, I'm, like, I have a hire housekeeper because I hate doing the dishes, and I'm not going to do them. That's just not how I it's not lighting my fire. It's not making me happy person. It's not making me want to coach anybody (Michael: Perfect) you know, so but what it like, you know, in case people are like, "Yeah, Lesley, it must be nice for you." What do you, what do you think?

Michael Unbroken 22:13  

Work harder. (Lesley: Yeah) (Michael laughs) I mean, I'm not being crass in that, like, you know, no, but seriously, there was... there's the the mundane of life, you don't get out of that. Nobody gets out of that. My mentor is a freaking billionaire. And sometimes that dude has to wash his own dishes. (Lesley laughs) I've seen him do it. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, let's not be stupid about it for real, like, you're gonna have to do shit you don't want to do. I don't want ...

Lesley Logan 22:38  

But you're saying you don't say 'yes' to things you don't want to do. So like, you're not saying 'yes', because "Oh, I should do that. You're not saying, you're not doing anything out of like ..."

Michael Unbroken 22:46  

Let me, let me frame it this way very simply. And I think you'll understand and comprehend exactly what I mean by what I just said. If at any point, I feel like I have to bend or placate myself and chameleon, who I am and the only reason why is so that I feel connected to you. I refuse to do it.

Lesley Logan 23:07  

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Unbroken 23:12  

But I gotta do the damn dishes. (Michael and Lesley laughs)

Lesley Logan 23:13  

Yeah. Well, thank you. But thank you for being honest. And also thank you, thank you for the challenges because I do I love what you said earlier. And it makes sense here it's like the negotiations and and bending around is just keeping the complaints is just is making you stay where you are and not live the life you want to live. And you're saying you don't want to live your life with regret, but I also feel like you don't want anyone, too. You're like, "Let's all, we all do this."

Michael Unbroken 23:41  

Yeah, but look, I mean, like, honestly, in you know, this, you coach people, right? 7% of people ain't gonna do shit with any of this. (Lesley: Yeah) I can't help you. I can't. I've never saved anyone's life. I get, I get emails literally every day. Somebody's like, "You changed my life." I'm like, "No, I didn't. You did. (Lesley: Yeah) I just handed you a roadmap. You drove the car." And so you know if you want to be a cynic, and you want to complain and you want to, you want to blame the world for your problem. Look, and I will say this, "I get it. I get it. You deserve to blame the world. Play the victim, own it." I was the victim for a long time. I blamed everybody it was everybody's fault. It was your fault. My mom's fault, my my community's fault, teacher's fault, Obama's fault. It was everybody's fault but Michael's fault. Everybody's fault. And on the day that I hit rock bottom, I'm laying in bed after putting a gun in my mouth the night before because I was playing the victim. And I'm laying in bed. So 11 o'clock in the morning and 350 pounds, eating chocolate cake, smoking a joint and watching the CrossFit games. Nobody put me there but me and it was in the moment that I got my ass up and I went and I looked in the mirror, and I got truthful with myself that things changed. You want to play the victim? Own it. Okay, that's your choice. (Lesley: Yeah) That's your decision. I know it's fucking hard. I know it is. I'm, I'm a guy who is an orphan, who grew up with the most abusive parents you could ever possibly imagine. Who stole foods to survive. Who did not graduate high school, who has no formal education, who has written number one best selling books. I have one of the top podcasts in the world. I've coached hundreds of thousands of people. And I feel very good about who I am today. (Lesley: Yeah) You make a decision. Nobody feels sorry for you. I'm sorry. I'm not being an asshole. I swear to God, I'm not. Nobody cares. They're not thinking about you. And there's no Disney moment. Nobody is coming to rescue you. So if you want what's next in your life, as much as it pains me to say it, you gotta go earn every fucking inch.

Lesley Logan 26:06  

Yeah, that's the I mean, that's the truth. And that's an it's it is. What do they say that the truth is hard to swallow? (Michael: Yeah) (Lesley laughs) (Micahel: It is) It's because we know it's true. We know we need it. And, and you are correct. There, I've been in many a situation where I was like, "No one is coming. This is all me. I gotta figure this out. I gotta, I gotta get off this ..." And I think I think that I think the that more people need to be honest, like you are. And it's, you know, because even if, even if you're listening to this, and you're like, "Michael's not the coach, for me." That's fine. But if he's got you at least thinking, "Okay, what am I going to do next? Who am I?" And looking at yourself in the mirror, like, that is a domino effect that I'm so grateful you can have, because every single person I know is on this planet for a purpose. They really do have something to give the people around them deserve to see who they are, and have the real person in their life. And we can't, it it for every day that they're not doing that they're actually affecting all the people around them from having an experience, that could be the best experience I could have with them.

Michael Unbroken 27:12  

Totally. And I want to say something important that most people are not going to pick up on. You said, some people are probably saying, "Well, Michael is not the coach of me." If you're coming into this conversation with that mindset, you already lost. That kind of fixed mindset. But I'll tell you the most dangerous words I've ever used in my life. That's just how I am, the ultimate fixed mindset. If you're already pre determining the outcome of what is in front of you, because you've made that decision, before you will absorb what is there for you, you have lost. And that's one of the more difficult parts of this life is that you have to actually let your guard down for a moment and receive the information from the person on the other side. No, I'm not your coach. But that doesn't mean there's not something here that might change your life.

Lesley Logan 28:01  

Yeah. Yeah, I think I found myself there's been a couple times my podcasts have come up, and I've seen other guests, and I'm like, "Ah, I'm almost that person." And I'm like, "You know what, I'm gonna go listen, that person, something about it bothers me. And I'm gonna learn something about myself right now." And I have found that to be one of the most amazing challenging decisions you can make is to put yourself in a room you think isn't for you, or a person is not for you. And it's still, it's still not might be the person that you're, you're going to hire or you're going to go follow or you're going to listen to again. But every time I've learned something about me, and me, and it's made me a better person, more understanding person, a person who challenges herself more like it's pretty awesome. So I agree with that. And I think, um, I wish, I wish somehow we could teach kids when they're in kindergarten, what fixed mindset versus what an abundance mindset? You know, I feel like that is like, way more important if you don't you, sometimes you don't even catch yourself doing that fixed mindset stuff, even when I was where I wanted this house that we're in. And I literally said to my therapist, "I'm really nervous. Like, what if we don't get in." And she's like, "Well, that's not the abundance mindset you have." And I was like, "Oh, my God. How did I just do that?" So it's this one, we it's a, it's a mindset that we almost need other people to call us out on sometimes if we can't call ourselves out.

Michael Unbroken 28:04  

Yeah. 100%. And you've got to be paying attention too. You know, I'll give you a great example, I was with my mentor the other day, and we were talking about money. And I was telling him how much money I was spending on something. He goes, "Man, that ain't your problem. You don't, you don't have a five figure problem. You got a million dollar problem, and you need to go figure out how to get it." Because I was like, I've limited myself financially for so long. Like, even though I've done very well, I made my first 100,000 at 20 years old, like I know how to make money, but he was like, "Look, dude, the reality is like, you need to understand the abundance of money being your friend." And I was like, "Damn, son, that was good" because I booked a hotel. It started because I, the whole conversation started because I was like, "Hey, I booked this hotel." And I go, "Yeah, it was pretty cheap." And he goes, "That's your first problem." And I was like, "Yep." And I cancelled the hotel immediately. And I got a nice hotel, right? Because it's like, even changing that mindset of that is like, you have a difference between $7 isn't gonna make or break you (Lesley laughs) that you come from this, like, poverty mindset, and you need someone there for you. (Lesley: Yeah) That's why we have coaches, we have mentors, because I need somebody to like kill that was a dumb fucking decision that you're doing based off of the experiences of your past. Thus, the same thing I talk about is the same thing I go and learn from people, causation and correlation. Why am I cheap? Because growing up, I was poor, and we were homeless, and I had to steal food to survive. And so I'm freaked out about money. And then I'm like, "Wait a second. Last year, I spent six figures on my own personal development." And now I'm thinking like, "How do I spend seven?"

Lesley Logan 30:56  

Yeah, I so understand the money mindset. Because my husband and I grew up poor in different ways. His parents actually are accountants. So they're very good with money, and very frugal with it. And they have lots of things because they did work. I was I grew up elder millennial. You screen the phone calls, because it was the bill collectors and you would wait and see if it was your friend or if his grandma, "Oh, nope, it's discover." And so I, to this day, still have a problem answering the phone because I'm like, it must, "I owe no one money." And I'm like, "It could be a bill collector though." Like I it's just it's a thing and it's awareness I have but (Michael: Totally) something that I started in 2013 when I was homeless again. And some of my friends were like, "You were homeless?" I'm like, "If you didn't know like, where are you? I was couchsurfing. I probably slept on your couch." Um, but but I learned like, never again, am I gonna get the cheap apartment, I'm gonna get the apartment I want. Never again, am I going to get the cheap car and make the car I want. What if that means I have to ride the bus until I get that car. That's what we're doing. (Michael: Totally) And today, I still don't have a car because I want a different car. I want a G Wagon. And until I can have that G Wagon, I'm going to ride my bicycle or borrow my dad's car because I want a G Wagon in my driveway. And that's what I'm saving up for. And I'm going to have it and it's going to be there. And it's not because material things make me feel good. It's because I know that I when I show up in a space that it feels like it's my surroundings, I show up as fully me, you know, so ...

Michael Unbroken 32:30  

Yeah. Let's talk about that for a second because (Lesley: Yeah) I think it's really important, right? Because like growing up, I was the same my mom would freak out if you answered the phone at my house, because of bill collectors, she would be like, "Don't you ever answer the phone." And now I look at my life and I think to myself, like those things that happen to us, like they matter. Like and yes, we can laugh about it. Like I'm gonna write a dark comedy about my childhood one day. (Lesley laughs) But you know, you can laugh at it. But the truth about it is those things impact you, and I'm in full agreement with you. Do not settle. Do not settle the life that you want to have. Now, look, if you you aren't making fucking $20,000 a year, you're not going to G Wagon. Like go figure your shit out, (Lesley laughs) right? But but also put yourself in a position to be able to do that education, information, be in the right rooms, have a mentor, get a coach and commit, like commit, put the money on the line. Like that's the thing like I think about this all the time. If you want your life to change, you've got to adapt this acronym I created called TEAM - Time, Effort, Energy, Money, You're gonna have to invest one, but you're probably going to have to invest all for, like, pick the direction of the thing that you want in your life and commit to it. And do not negotiate with yourself until you get it. Like I remember this a couple years ago, I was like, "I want Grant Cardone to invest in one of my businesses." Grant Cardone invested in one of my businesses. Like, "I want, I want Tom Bilyeu to be my mentor." Tom Bilyeu is my mentor. "I want to write a best selling book." I've written a best selling book. "I want to have a top podcast." I have a top podcast. "I want to have the greatest minds on planet earth come and speak with me." They do it. Why? Because as I went through the hell of building the life that I want to have, that's what this looks like, and that committing to those dreams, you get, we get so scared, right? Because we go, "Oh man, if I get the house, and it's $800 a month, well then I'll stop eating Starbucks." But that that doesn't solve your problem. The thing that solves your problem is putting yourself in a position to be more successful than you've ever been by committing harder than you ever have. And eliminating all things that are not moving you towards your goals. That means (Lesley: Yeah) no fucking Netflix. That means no brunch with the girls on Sunday. That means getting your ass up at 4:30 in the morning because you got kids who get up at six and working on building your life until the moment that you go to bed every single night. You don't want it bad enough. Like that's the problem, people are hearing this and they're like, "I want this life." Show me your calendar. Show me your calendar. And I'll tell you if you want this life or not.

Lesley Logan 35:15  

Yeah, that's you or that's that's it. It's you don't want it bad enough. I think I had on a woman who Hazel Ortega shucks at miracle goals. And what was really cool about that was like challenge that she made. She's like, "Don't just create goals. I want miracle goals. I want goals that are so God sized." So you could your brain couldn't logically figure out how to get them. So you can't talk yourself out of them. Because it's a miracle, then then you can believe in miracles, and then things will happen for you. But so many people make their goals, something that's attainable. And then, because it's like, hmm it makes their life this much better. They don't actually change their life to have it because it's not big enough. You have to, I really do believe that you have to make them big enough that you want it so badly that you show up at 4:30 in the morning. I did. I remember when I had my full time job that paid the bills with the health insurance and all the things and I had the side hustle and I had a private clients. And I slept three hours a night. And I know a lot of people thought I was crazy. A lot of people thought something's wrong with her. And now I get to sleep more. But it's still work every day, you still have to show up every day, you still have to change not just yourself, but how you think about things, how you how your day has made you change your location, you know, like there's things people have to do. And those are hard decisions to make. But if you want it bad enough, you will.

Michael Unbroken 36:28  

Yeah. And look, and I'll say this too, like I'm not about that hustle culture life. I'm not about it. I'm about doing what I want. That's it. And if I don't want to, like I tell people all the time, you know, I've built this business. I've done so much to help people. If I wake up tomorrow, I don't want to do this anymore. It's all gone. I promise you it is. It's gone. Why? Because life is about doing what you want. Have fun, enjoy. I love doing this. I love it. I love being on stages. I love writing books. I just finished writing my third book just today, like do what you want, do what makes you happy. But I promise you, I have to get up at 6am to write the damn thing because I'm busy the rest of the day. And like that's the thing about this, like, you know, there, I think there's something that like recognizing the truth that you have to be obsessed with the life that you want to create. And if the people around, you're like, "Oh, you're a workaholic," I promise you, you're around the wrong people. Because they don't get it. They don't get it. They're not ready for the truth. They don't want the reality of the truth that you are gonna go and be fucking great. And you deserve it. But it ain't gonna fall into your lap. And the secret ain't real. You got to put in work.

Lesley Logan 37:35  

Yeah. And I like when you say that you're not about the hustle. It's very different. You're not doing this for the hustle sake of it or for the busyness of it or for the things it's, it's these are the things you want to do. And this is how you have to structure the day to get those things that you want to do done.

Michael Unbroken 37:51  

Yeah. And I'll tell you this, do I want to be wealthy? Yep. 100%. One of my biggest goals is to make this company a $25 million a year company. I'm nowhere close, yet. Do I want to own a hel... helicopter? Uh huh. Yep, sure do, can't afford one, yet. Will... Right? Do I want to speak on the biggest stages in the world? Fuck yeah. Like one of my biggest goals is speak in front of 50,000 people, the biggest stage I've ever spoken is 10,000. I'm only a fifth of the way there. I ain't there yet because (Lesley: Yeah) I'm not good enough yet. I haven't learned the skills yet to put me in that position. And all the people around me over the years who have called me a workaholic, who have said I'm crazy, who say I work too hard. Those people aren't even my friends anymore. And you know why? It's not because I don't love them or cherish them because many of them I do. But I can't be aligned with people who want to bring down my dreams, because I'm not going to sacrifice my mission for anybody. And on a long enough timeline, like the truth about it is like you'll you'll look at your life. And you'll go on you'll see those people. I looked up a friend the other day on Facebook. I haven't seen him in like 10 years. We were best friends growing up. Do you know what he was doing? The same shit we were doing 20 years ago. And I want to be clear about something. If you're happy, if you're content, if you love your life, if you're not complaining, you already won. Don't change anything. If your content make them 30 grand a year, fucking awesome. That is great. But if you lay in bed at night, and you're like, "I want to go and build this thing." And you weren't willing to do it. I can promise you, on your deathbed. Right before that last gasp that like right before it's over. The word 'regret' is going to come into your head. And this will have been a life unlived.

Lesley Logan 39:46  

Oh, Michael, you are amazing. I could talk to you or listen to you for hours. Thank goodness you have a podcast. Okay, Michael, where do you hang out? What's your favorite social? Where's your podcast at? So all the places where can they find you?

Michael Unbroken 40:02  

I don't have a favorite social but I'm everywhere at Michael Unbroken. Literally everywhere and the podcast is Think Unbroken Podcast or thinkunbrokenpodcast.com or just search 'Think Unbroken', it's not that hard to find. Literally, everything I teach is there for free. The books are on there for free. The programs are on there for free. Everything is for free all the time, 24/7 because my mission is to end generational trauma in my lifetime.

Lesley Logan 40:27  

Yeah, well, we'll put all the links in the show notes below. Okay, I asked everyone this, you've given us plenty of action items, but just in case someone needs it wrapped up in a bow, bold, executable, intrinsic or target steps people can take to be it till they see it. And for you, I know it's that you just do it every day. But like what we got.

Michael Unbroken 40:47  

Well first, and I just want to say thanks for having me because you are allowing me to share this space with you. You're a part of my mission. And that means the world to me. Look. The truth about it is this, the life that you want to have it's it's fucking right here. It's right here. It's like literally, you can reach out and touch it. But nobody's gonna hand it to you. And if you ask yourself this question, and the answer is anything less than no excuses, just results, you will never, ever have the life that you want to have. So you need to ask yourself, "What am I willing to do to have the life that I want to have?"

Lesley Logan 41:32  

That's a great question. That's great. Ouf. Well, I love it. I love it. I love that question. I almost, almost want to have it where I can see it every day. Because I think it's a good one to ask yourself each day. Michael, thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your mission and sharing your journey and sharing your truth. It's beyond and I'm really grateful, really, really grateful. So you all how are you going to use this in your life? What are you going to do? We want to know. So screenshot this, tag @michaelunbroken, tag the @be_it_pod and actually let us know because I know that, I know for myself when I see those things. It just shows how much action you're taking. And for those of us who are trying to change the world, it lets us know that's working, or doing is helping and so let us know. Share this episode with anyone that you know who needs it, who needs what Michael is saying, who needs his resources, and until next time, Be It Till You See it.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 43:05  

It's written produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 43:16  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 43:20  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 43:28  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 43:41  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai