Be It Till You See It

How was your lunch today? Did you take time to get outside or did you work right through it? Clare and LL recap a powerful conversation around workplace wellness and well being shaming. Listen to determine your game plan for balancing your workday and setting boundaries in your daily life. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Check in to LL hobbies 
• The comeback to well being shaming 
• Personal recognization of mental health in the workplace 
• Starting the workplace wellness conversation 
• Setting the correct boundaries, even outside work
• What envy really tells you 

Episode References/Links:

• Book: Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work: Here’s Why and How to Do it Really Well.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where, we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right, everyone. Welcome back to the Be It Till You See interview recap where my co host is my bestie, Clare Solly. She's back and we are going to dig into a real talk convo I had with Melissa Doman in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to interview, go back, listen to it. Oh my gosh, it is so fired up. So fun. Like it's probably the most fired up, you'll hear anyone when they're talking about mental health, awareness and well being shaming. So then you can go back, listen to that one, come back and join us. You can listen to Clare and I riff on it and then go back. But Clare Solly, my slingshot friend, if you're on the YouTube channel, you saw the necklace she's wearing. She is one it was our guests on episode 19. She's done a couple of recaps with us. And that's because Brad is currently in Cambodia while we're recording this. So, Clare, thanks for being here.

Clare Solly 1:34  

Hi, thanks for having me back. I'm excited. I'm remote from New York this time. I was remote from North Carolina the last year two times.

Lesley Logan 1:42  

I know. It's we're just like catching you wherever. And it's so fun. And also I'm just really I'm excited that you got to be, you get to listen to this. So y'all, this is the first recap we're doing right after the interview (Clare: Right after.) So normally it gets produced there's a whole thing. We listened to it a couple more times, we talk about it, because we wanted to get Melissa on and to get this episode to your ears during Mental Health Awareness Month while you're thinking about it. I should be thinking about it all the time. But while everyone's actually thinking about it right now, we had to do a little fun like, this is a trial. So we'll hear how it goes. You let us know how we're doing on this recap. So anyways, thanks for being here. Real quick, everyone, June 5th is the start of the Control Your Balance Challenge. So this is a free challenge where I am actually helping people who own a reformer or other Pilates equipment, do a more advanced exercise and that doesn't mean that you have to have it down by the end of the week. We don't do perfect, we do progress. But if you are scared to do a control balance off on the reformer or control balance on the mat because it is weird. It's a somersault into an arabesque and somersaulting back on I hear ya, not a dancer. Those words made no sense to me when I was learning it, but I'm here to help break it down. My OPC teachers are joining us so you can go to onlinepilatesclasses.com to sign up for this challenge. Again, it's free and it's one week long, and you're gonna get lots of different classes, tips and tools to do some advanced scary work. So anyways, that's next week and alright, Clare, we normally have an audience question, but something tells me you are resurfacing that?

Clare Solly 3:19  

Yes, since I am a guest hostess. I have a question for you. You and I've been chatting a bunch lately. I know that you're doing the author's way, no, The Artist's Way. (Lesley: The Artist's Way) So you and it's funny every time you talk about this, it makes me giggle because I think you're a person that always does all the things. But I want to, I want to check in on your hobbies you were testing out new hobbies. So the question is, do you have a new favorite hobby yet? And what is it or do you have a hobby that you will never do or that you just experienced recently?

Lesley Logan 3:55  

That's a good question. So I have to say I tested out this hobby of laying by the pool and I loved that. (Lesley and Clare laughs) No, I was at a cabana and people were bringing me all the things and so there is something really luxurious about that but I have to say I don't know if you'd call it a hobby more as a habit but I want to make sure that once a month I am laying poolside somewhere if that means I have to get a hotel pass in my local area, I will. I just went to a casino yesterday and they did not need my hotel room key and I won't say which hotel it was because I don't want to blow their cover. But I know and I'm going to be using that pool (Lesley laughs) so that's not my hobby. I will say I enjoyed the macro may that was really fun. I was supposed ... do a loom thing, someone was gonna let me borrow their loom and I have not been able to get my hands on that yet but I really do like the idea of it. I think I'm where I'm currently in my life, I'm having fun dabbling, but I'm not ready to commit anything yet because I'm also enjoying doing nothing. And something about hobbies is it's easy for me to busy myself with them. And I'm really trying to get a mental health. I'm really, really trying to make sure that I'm actually spending time with myself and not just like being busy all the time. So currently I do like the lira. It's painful. It's fun, makes me feel really cool. I do like little macro may but I'm not ready to go and like go to the craft shop and invest in anything or buy a group pass yet.

Clare Solly 5:29  

I mean, my mom's favorite hobby is napping. So I think between your pool side and her napping, (Lesley: Yeah) I am a fan. 

Lesley Logan 5:37  

Yeah, you're like I'm in for both. I'm in for both. So anyways, I would love to hear what people are doing for their hobbies because I think it's it's fun to see what people call a hobby and like how it can be beneficial. And also like, knitting can also be a great way to decompress, too. So I just, yeah, I right now I'm just trying to make sure that I'm not overworking myself, even with my hobbies.

Clare Solly 5:59  

And if you have suggestions for Lesley, tag her at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. (Lesley: Yeah) ... doing your hobbies. (Lesley: Yeah) Um,

Lesley Logan 6:06  

What's your favorite hobby, though? Is it writing? (Clare: Mine?) Well, you were, you write for work. That's not talking.

Clare Solly 6:11  

I mean, hmm. I don't know. I mean, I feel like like, and this is why I giggle whenever you say it, because I feel like anything that we start out trying as a hobby ends up being we find a way to make money out of it. (Clare laughs) So I would say like writing is my hobby, but I feel like it's like it's a side profession at the moment. (Lesley: Yeah) Um, I feel you know, what my favorite hobbies got to be reading. Like, I've always been an avid voracious reader. Especially like, I'm a self help junkie. So I'll go read a self help book, just like to see if I'm in alignment and whatever. (Lesley: Yeah) Or like, I love a good romance, like goofy (Lesley: Yeah) like, you know, My Best Friend's Wedding. Like those kinds of rom-commie, (Lesley: Yeah) you know, Bridgerton I'll read all that stuff. So,

Lesley Logan 7:00  

Yeah, I do love, I love to read. You know, you just made me remember that one thing that I've, again, I'll end up making money out of it. But one thing that I want to have the time for, and I'm trying to build our schedule around so it's not really a hobby as much as it's like a goal to do something is, I really want to be a tequila sommelier and there is tequila school in Mexico. And I found a school that has like, one month, six week, eight week, three months, programs. You better believe I've researched like how do I buy a rental house there? How many dogs can I have at it? How can Brad and I live in Mexico while I do Visionary Officer learns about tequila. (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 7:38  

Oh my gosh. I can see the future of Pilates retreats. Take Pilates by day and takes tequila by night. 

Lesley Logan 7:45  

The tequila and Pilates. Yeah. Feela tequila. That's what we call it. (Lesley and Clare laughs)

Clare Solly 7:51  

Alright, sign up below.

Lesley Logan 7:54  

Anyways, let's talk about Melissa Doman.

Clare Solly 7:56  

Melissa. I would love to talk about Melissa Doman. This was so exciting me hear this in real time, like I was jumping up and down in the background. While I was taking notes on YouTube, we're talking. Melissa Doman is an Organizational Psychologist, a Former Clinical Medical Health Therapist and Author of a book you need to write down and get in the show notes. Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work (Here’s Why And How To Do It Really Well). Melissa works with companies and across industries around the globe, including small companies you might not have heard of like Microsoft, Estée Lauder, Salesforce, Siemens. She's been featured featured in magazines and articles on, in Vogue and on the BBC and CNBC, about the great resignation, mental health at work conversations about the Ukraine crisis and more. This woman has lived all around the world and it was just, it's an amazing conversation. So definitely go listen to it again ...

Lesley Logan 8:56  

Yeah. I agree, I really am so grateful. She said yes. Because I think that I mean, it's so easy to find people who like, "Yeah, let's talk about mental health." And she's like, fired up. She's like, "We all gonna be talking about mental health. Here's mine." I mean, she like literally is leavi... living, speaking breathing version of her book, I believe.

Clare Solly 9:14  

Yeah, well, that was nice. Because I didn't feel shamed when she was talking about I felt, I ... energized like (Lesley: Yeah) these are the things I'm going to go be proactive about. Anyway, sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself. What was your favorite thing that she mentioned?

Lesley Logan 9:29  

Okay, so you have to write this down. I even said it in the in the episode, I said wri... everyone go to the show notes and write this down. By the way on the lesleylogan.co site, we have all the transcripts so you can actually just like copy and paste things that you love that people say by the way, hint, hint, text it to yourself, text it to a friend. So one thing I loved that she said was well being sha... on well being shaming, doing things so let's say somebody basically it's like if somebody like says, "Oh, must be nice, you get to leave work earlier. Must be nice, you could go on a run on your lunch break." That's that's well being shaming. And so she says your response should be, "Doing things to manage my well being practices a healthy adult thing to do. Can you help me understand why you don't agree?" And I just love this because I'm sure you're like, "Oh my God, I have to stand up for myself. Oh my God, do this." But, you know, if they're like that, it's because someone else made, showed them that and like embodied that and implify and showed that and they saw people getting rewarded for that. And you can actually be the person that says, "This is actually, this is actually not a must be nice thing. This is actually how I show up and be your coworker. Can you tell me why that's a problem?" And they might a solid healthy person might go, "Oh, wow, that's really cool." And you know, some people won't change, but I just really, I really liked that she brought that up. And I love that she gave us a comeback for those well being shamers.

Clare Solly 10:52  

Yeah, well, um, this this goes with what I was saying to I mean, she mentioned that she's a recovering people pleaser, which I'm... That was one of the things I was like, "Yes, me, me." So yeah, I totally understand that. And like, it's, there's ways to reframe where you're not apologizing, you're not. Because anytime you apologize, that's you trying to people, please. And if you reframe it, and put it out there, like, "This is who I am," then, then you're not trying to make others pleased by anything. And that sort of goes along with that the thing that I took from it. (Lesley: Yeah. What's your thing?) Mine was, you people need to understand or there's an understanding of that people have different levels of needs and ways they work. And also, part of that, too, is people don't know what you need unless you tell them. So (Lesley: Yeah) ... this is part of the conversation about like, the email after work, and I'm one of those people like I panic, when I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, my boss sent me an email (because I work in corporate America). My boss sent me an email, I need to respond to it right now. And it's like, no, she was just sending it right then because it was on her mind right then." (Lesley: Right) And I, it wasn't until I had the conversation with her like three months in that I I didn't understand that she just needed to get it out of her brain. She didn't need me to respond. She just needed to let go of it.

Lesley Logan 12:12  

Yeah, yeah. And that's, and like of course, she would assume that because she's emailing you. But that's something like I, you know, I try to do with our team is like, I mean, we have people live all over the world. So we're going to talk on Slack, Monday and email all day long. So the assumption is, you don't need to respond. Unless I say it's an emergency, I can't find this thing. But then I'll probably just call you if it's an actual emergency, I'm just gonna pick up the phone and be like, "I'm so sorry, I am calling you after work hours. I can't find this thing." I've had to do that twice before. And I felt like a jerk. But I was just like, "I'm really sorry, this is I just need two seconds of emergency. I can't find this thing." And most people don't mind that because it's respectful of their time. But I also you know, I've had people who've responded to me after hours when I've said something. And I was like, "Oh, I didn't, I didn't realize you worked this late. Is everything, okay?" (Clare: Oh, that's a good one.) Because I don't want the team to be a bunch of workhorses. I want them, you know, I want them to get their job done. And they should be able to get it done. And the amount of hours we've we've allotted for it. And if they can't, I want them to let me know. So that we can figure that out because some things can be automated that they were doing, right? But it does require the the you telling your boss, "Hey, it stresses me out when you email me at 8pm." And then your boss going, "Oh, I'm just, this I was just thinking about it. I didn't actually expect you're..." Like, you know, we make assumptions. And so it's like we have to have, we're human beings have to have a conversation. And I love that Melissa talked about that so many times in and it's like, be clear, be kind and like tell people what you need and why why you need it. Yeah.

Clare Solly 13:51  

Yeah. And again, like, I know, you mentioned in the pod in the recording, that, you know, you're a small business owner, you have several people that listen to this podcast that are small business owners. I think a good piece of advice for anybody who owns their own business, is to make sure you leave the door open for questions to be asked. You know, for anybody that works for you, so that way if it you know if you get to a point, because again, unless the door is opened, like I didn't know that I was, you know, having to ask questions. (Lesley: Right) But then also people like me who work four bosses, like ask the questions like tell people what you need, and ask what the expectation is.

Well, for example, one of our team members had came to me and she said, "I'm can... I'm actually over my hours every single week." and I was like, "Oh, how long have you been this way?" She's like, "four months" and I was like, "Okay. In the future, if it goes on longer than a week to two weeks, can you just like pipe in and say, 'hello, I'm heading over my hours. I'm being overworked.' We don't know. All we know as you're getting your work done. You know, (Clare: Yeah) so I hate that that happened. I feel terribly about it, let's fix it. And also I ca... so this doesn't happen the future, here's how it needs to be so that we can support you." And and that's, you know, it's it basically it's like, unless someone's a total dickhead, both people have to have a conversation about where the line got crossed, and who allowed who to cross it, who crossed it, and how do we not cross it again. (Lesley laughs)

Yeah. Well and she talked about having the moment of like, blowing up or exploding, and like, you have to do the prep work before that. And it's, you know, conversations like this are scary conversations until you have them. And then after you've had them like, again, it's it's anything else. It's it's practice. (Lesley: Yeah) So just have the conversation. A lot of times some people will respect you more on the other side for having the conversation.

Lesley Logan 15:51  

Yeah. And also, if it doesn't go the way you want, well, now, you know, and you're not wasting any more time. Like going, "Oh, my God, they don't listen to me. They don't do this." It's like, yep, they don't listen to me. And I now have to decide if this is a place that I want to work at. Or, you know, where do I want to take my expertise? And what team do I want to be part of, you know, so yeah.

Clare Solly 16:15  

And perfect. Speaking of taking your expertise, places, should we get in this BE IT action items? (Lesley: Yes, I love these.) All right, so let's talk about what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your conversation? I took away and I loved the way she phrased this. And she said it a couple of times, the crucial conversational literacy, everyone needs to have a modicum of knowledge about mental health in the workplace. I (Lesley: Yeah) just thought that was just a like, "Go out and make sure you understand who you are, and what rights you have in your workplace to create a safe and a good working environment for you mentally. "

Lesley Logan 17:02  

Right. Like, I love that because it's like, we can't see those people who work for someone, you can't expect your bosses to be enlightened around to this. And like, literally look out for every moment of your mental health and well being while they're running a business. And bosses, you can't expect your team to come at you with all their mental health stuff and actually speak up you have like everybody has to be educated for what they're about what educated in their roles and where they need to go when, when they need some mental health and well being support, or some education or some needs. And so I think it's like, it really does require and she said this in the thing, like we have to come together as a team, and we have to actually go, "What does that look like? Why do we care about that?"

Clare Solly 17:46  

Yeah, and, and, you know, unless you're starting the conversation, and actually this is a this can start at water coolers, like this can start at the kitchen, this can start as you're waiting to join a Zoom meeting, like or as you're waiting for everybody to join a Zoom meeting, just start chatting about mental health in the workplace. Like, the more we bring this to the forefront. Even if you feel like you're not affected at this moment, the more we talk about it, the more we make other people comfortable about the conversation and empower them to go have the conversation if they need to.

Lesley Logan 18:19  

Yeah, well and also like this moment is like if you're not being impacted in this moment with your mental health, this is the best time to have those conversations. (Clare and Lesley laughs) You can then actually have it and you're not like what she said when she had her fuzzy brain like, "We're trying to stay alive and this part is like waaa. (Clare: Yeah) I'm overwhelmed. No one is listening to me." (Clare: Yeah) So I yeah, I think it's like the what I really love is like we, she in no way are the leaders in the company is to blame for mental health in the company but also in no way are the employees scot free and like we all have to take part in owning our mental health and well being, being clear on what we need and asking for it. And understanding that they're going to have ask and requests where they are and somewhere in the middle we all have to meet and if we can't, then you may have to like ask yourself, what else or options do I have that might not be the right place for you? And that's okay, too.

Clare Solly 19:17  

Yeah, yeah. So just start the conversation. Lesley, what was your BE IT action item?

Lesley Logan 19:22  

So she first of all what I love is just like take action. You have to take action. Like and hello, action brings clarity, it's the antidote to fear. So especially if you're scared to talk about mental health at work, take one of these actions and and I just want, I just like the simplest thing is like read her book and I know it's for mental health in the workplace. And I know a lot of you might work for yourself or you might work in a small team, but I feel like within a family it's really important to be like I feel to me families are another business like they all, they have bills, there needs to be a lot of income we have goals and vacation these things, right. So like to talk about you can implement these things. And I think it's really important because sometimes someone in the family is gonna be going through something. And it's going to require the whole family to be like, "Okay, what do you need right now to help you get through this busy time?" Like, that's really, you know, like when we're really crazy in a launch, we actually have to tell everyone in our Vegas family, "Hey, here's the deal, we are in a crazy time right now. That means no extra dogs can be here. That means we're having dinner delivered. If you want to come over for dinner, you have to leave after dinner." Like ...

Clare Solly 20:27  

You even message me sometimes you're like, "Hey, girl, I'm not gonna be able to talk this next week, because (Lesley: Yeah) I got a launch going on." (Clare laughs)

Lesley Logan 20:34  

Yeah, yeah. And also like learning to say that so that I don't get pissed off when people are bothering me. I'm like, well, they don't know. They don't know. And so read this book, everyone, it's that's in the show notes. I'm really, really am excited about what what she is doing. And I really think that the more responsibility we can take for ourselves in our mental health, the easier it is for us to ask for that at work, to ask for that with our partner, to ask for that from ourselves. And then and then we can really change the world. You know, in this way, I just, I really believe in it. So but it does mean that we all have to take responsibility for taking care of ourselves and understanding what our mental health and well being needs are and stop shaming people. Like if you say, please, please, please remove this. If you say it "must be nice for her", even in your head about something that they're doing. Let that be a flashlight to something that you wish you were doing for yourself. People who have boundaries are not rude. They're not bitches. They are people who have had I need these boundaries in my life. I get people who say I asked people, they said I was really cold. Because, you know, they came to visit and I only was available for like, a window of time. And I'm like, "Okay, if I had made myself available to you the whole time, I you would have hated me because I have to, there are things I have to do. So that I can show up and be this person. I'm not this person every like, like, I'm not like a light switch." (Lesley laughs) You know? So I think we have to we all ... with this wasn't a BE IT action item, but I'm making it one. Watch the well being shaming you have towards yourself, your friends, your co workers, because you use it as a flashlight of what you're actually needing in your life and, and actually see them as like, "Oh, wow, look at that person taking care of themselves." Like what if we saw that in people instead of like judging it?

Clare Solly 22:22  

Yeah, that's great. That's so great. (Lesley: Yeah) In, in a, in acting school, we always, we weren't supposed to like pick apart people we were, we were supposed to say, "I wish you would do da da da," instead. So it turns into a positive. (Lesley: Oh) But I like yours better. I like flashlight for yourself better. (Lesley: flashlight)

Lesley Logan 22:41  

Yeah, I like well, you know, I like I think it was my therapist, I was really, I got upset at myself for how I handled something. And she goes, "The problem is not how you handled it. The problem is the judgment you have toward yourself." (Clare: Yeah) Whenever you are like this see as a flashlight of where you still have to do the work. And I was like, "There's more work." (Lesley laughs) (Clare: Yeah ...) There's more work to be done. But I think you know, it's like, whenever you're envious of somebody, there's a flashlight of something you're really wanting for yourself. And maybe you didn't know that. So like, "Oh, thank you so and so for letting me know, I really want to be going for a run on my lunch break. Or I want time on my lunch break for myself." So Clare, I'm so excited. You got to be part of this. (Clare: Yehey) I'm gonna make... and Brad needs to listen to this obvious because we have a company but you you are on the other side of this. So I like have a company, you work for companies and I have to do a little shout out. Because you the first time we had you on the podcast, you were manifesting a job and you got a job offer with like more money than like whatever you (Clare: Yeah) asked for. Right? And then so that was like in your whole episode like manifesting money and then ... two weeks ago you were like manifesting a new job and we were doing manifesting stuff and not only did you get a new job, you got a really frickin awesome job. And you got paid more money than you asked for. (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 24:05  

Yeah, I was I was told by the recruiter. No, no, they don't pay over this amount. And they're paying me, they offered me more than the amount that they told me the more than I was asking for more than they told me that they wouldn't. So it was ...

Lesley Logan 24:21  

Yeah. (Clare: manifesting) So... Manifest. So Clare Solly, you can find her on Instagram at @youwontbesolly and so you can find her, she does manifestation stuff. She's a writer, she's got books, she teaches you how to write. So make sure you check all those things out but also like she is a prime example. To me, I just heard this and I feel like you're the walking example of that. Like don't take a 'no' from a person who can't give you a 'yes'. Right? Because like you could have listened that recruiter and you could have been like, "Okay, I'm just gonna get this and that's fine." But instead you like went into it like, "I'm still I'm open to receiving all that is there and this is what I want. And this is like in my dream world. And I like and here and here's more. And here's all of this and here's we're gonna guarantee you." And like (Lesley and Clare laughs) it exists out there. So y'all don't take a 'no' from someone who can't give you a 'yes', manifest (Clare: Yeah) what you want, and it'll be ... You had clarity and a vision around it. And that's why it comes to you.

Clare Solly 25:18  

Yeah, exactly. And it sometimes shows up in different ways. Like, it's not a straightforward way, sometimes like mine was very straightforward. But sometimes it comes at you at different directions. So manifest what you want, and it'll show up.

Lesley Logan 25:30  

Oh, I love you so much. Thanks for being my slingshot, buddy.

Clare Solly 25:34  

I love you. Thank you for being my slingshot, friend. I'm so glad we do things like this together.

Lesley Logan 25:39  

I know and also everyone let us know how you enjoyed this recap where we went off the fly straight off of ... Amanda and Brad will let us know how we did. (Lesley and Clare laughs) We're just here being it till we see it and you should do the same. So y'all what were your favorite takeaways? What are your BE IT action items? Are you going to read a Melissa's book? Let us know by screenshotting this. Tag the @be_it_pod, tag @youwontbesolly, tag Melissa Doman, the @wanderingmel. And let us know how the this impacted you and what you're going to do about mental health and well being in your life. Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 26:49  

It's written produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 27:00  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 27:04  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 27:12  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 27:25  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

As a society, our daily lives are made up of moments in the office, staring at a computer screen, communicating with our coworkers, just simply working. In honor of mental health awareness month, Melissa Doman, an Organizational Psychologist and author brings to light real conversations that can help improve your workplace wellness and tips to achieve a better work-life balance.  

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

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In this episode you will learn about:

• Learning the new language of mental health at work
• Well Being shaming 
• How to communicate what you need 
• The gender stereotype in the workplace
• Intention vs. impact 
• * Talking about how people need to be clear about intention
• Finding the what workplace wellness looks like
• Who the best person to encourage you in workplace health?

BIO: 

Melissa Doman, MA is an Organizational Psychologist, Former Clinical Mental Health Therapist, & Author of Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work (Here’s Why And How To Do It Really Well). Melissa works with companies across industries around the globe – including clients like Microsoft, Salesforce, Siemens, Estée Lauder, & Janssen. She’s been featured as a subject matter expert in Vogue, the BBC, CNBC, and Inc. Magazine about the Great Resignation, mental health at work conversations about the Ukraine Crisis, and more. Having lived abroad in South Korea, England, Australia and traveled to 45+ countries, Melissa calls upon her global experiences to inform how she works with companies around the world. She has one core goal: to equip companies, individuals, and leaders to have constructive conversations about mental health in the workplace. Her work and book aim to accomplish just that. To learn more about Melissa, her work, or the book - please visit www.melissadoman.com

Episode References/Links:

• Instagram
• Book: Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work: Here’s Why and How to Do it Really Well

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Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

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• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 00:00

Hey, Be It it listener. Well, we had to have to put this woman on this particular month and we worked move mountains to get MST and EST and PST timezones to collide in order for us to get you this guest. And so first of all, thank you for listening to Be It pod, without your listens, without your reviews, without your comments and shares. We can't bring amazing guests like this. So because of you we are and I'm so grateful. I heard Melissa Doman on another podcast and I was like, "Holy frickin moly." Yes, I have to have you hear her words? Because one of the biggest things I see from people being it till they see it is not listening to your mental health and well being needs like not actually listening to them. And if you don't listen to them, then you can't be your full self. And if you can't be your full self, how are you going to be it till you see it? So, Melissa Doman is incredible. She has a book we have in the show notes. And she's going to give an honest conversation like truly honest conversation around mental health well being. What is well being changed? Why we have to stop doing it in the workplace? But also these are all tools you can use in your life. So May is Mental Health Awareness Month. I would love for us all to be more on board with her and out about our mental health throughout the year, but wanted to get her in here on this month while we're all thinking about it. So let us know what your favorite takeaways are as you listen to Melissa Doman. Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started All right, Be It listeners. I'm freakin stoked for today's guest. I have Mel Doman, Melissa Doman here today. And one, I heard this woman's amazing words about mental health well being in the workplace, and I was like, "We have to talk about this." She is an expert. And because it's May, when you listen to this is mental health awareness month. So of course we have to talk about that. But also, I just I know how, how much our mental health affects us being it till we see it. So I wanted to bring an expert in here to talk about that. Mel, let you tell everyone who you are, and what you rock at?

Melissa Doman 02:39

Oh, I've so been looking forward to this conversation. So, I am Melissa Doman. I am an Organizational Psychologist, former Clinical Mental Health Therapist and Author of Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work: Here’s Why and How to Do it Really Well. So what I do at my core is I help organizations, leaders and individuals learn how to constructively talk about mental health at work. It's not sunshine and rainbows. It's not a dark, deep depths. It's somewhere in between, because that is the human condition. And this is not just a wellbeing thing. It's not just a DEIB thing or accessibility thing. This is a crucial, conversational, literacy development thing, period. Every person needs some modicum of ability to have these discussions in the world of work going forward, not negotiable. And so I tend to be the spoonful of honesty helps the education go down. (Lesley and Melissa laughs)

Lesley Logan 03:39

I love that. I mean, first of all, I love your drive towards this and your passion towards it, because ... (Melissa: Oh, thank you.) Yeah, I mean, I mean, obviously, for good reason. But also, I do think people do the dance, or they have someone come in or they hire someone in HR, and they're like, "Okay, you know, here's this" but we've we've come a long way with the with the mental health in the workplace and met people even talking about mental health with their friends and family. And we also have so much more to go. (Lesley laughs)

Melissa Doman 04:09

The thing is, we're trending in the right direction, you know, a bunch, a bunch, a bunch of people who came before me, laid in the groundwork for this to even be possible. So, you know, I tend to joke that I went from the back end job of being the clinical therapist, to the front end job of being the organizational psychologist who's trying to help people share their toys better in the workplace ... (Lesley laughs) Make no mistake, the workplace is just, you know, a playground, but we're all older and have different toys and there isn't a jungle gym. It just happens to be who gets to CEO. (Lesley: Yeah) So it's so, a lot of folks are trying to do what they can, when they can with what they have. But it has to be done differently. And so (Lesley: Yeah) I do all of my talks with companies or trainings or any of that, very much steeped in reality, because if you're not setting people up for the challenges of these sorts of conversations or what to do if it goes wrong, or changing the language you use, the mindset you use, you're just setting them up for failure. Right? So it has to be lead with purpose and intention, as opposed to we need to talk about it, we need to talk about it. And most people are like, "Where do I put my hands? I don't know what to do."

Lesley Logan 05:30

Right. They're like, "I don't know where it is. Where do I start? What's the starting point?" (Melissa: Right) And then also (Melissa: Exactly) like, I'm sure you, I'm sure a lot of people are afraid to get it wrong. Because (Melissa: Yes) and like, we're gonna get it wrong. I was just listening, re listening to Brené Brown's Dare to Lead and she says, "You're gonna screw up (Melissa: Yeah) 3,571 times trying to be empathetic." (Melissa: Yes) (Lesley laughs)

Melissa Doman 05:48

I have shit the bed more times than I can count. But I had to do that, to get to where I am now. (Lesley: Yeah) And so it's a slow burn. It's not like the matrix where you can plug the skill set into the back of your head overnight, although I'm sure people in biotech are working on that. (Lesley: Right) But it's going to take practice, and it's going to take mistakes, and there are literal scripts. I'm not playing, literal scripts in my book, here's what to say, here's what not to say. Here's why to say and not say those things. (Lesley: Yeah) And it's learning a new language, really.

Lesley Logan 06:23

Yeah. So okay, I want to I want to definitely talk about workplace and I also want to talk about because we have a lot of people who even work for themselves. So they are their own everything, (Melissa: Yeah) they're having all. And so what, what are some things that you see happening as far as like, even ? What do you see like far as like, shaming goes when people are like trying to give themselves well being like, I'm trying to like trying to get themselves balanced, and then they kind of like, you know, get in their own way of doing that. And what are some signs that they're on the right track?

Melissa Doman 06:56

So there's a concept that I wrote about in the book called Well Being Shaming. And the reason that I love talking about this is, it happens all the time, even now. And people just didn't know what to call it. So for example, we'll say in the before time, that if you didn't want to stay till eight o'clock in the office, and you tried to leave at five to have some sort of semblance of integration, of not living at work, and someone might say something like, "Oh, must be nice to leave at five o'clock," or "Oh, must be nice to go for a run on the lunch hour." I wish I had your easy schedule. You know what that is? Number one, that's people being just total buttheads. (Lesley: Yeah) And number two, it's just them holding up the status quo, or they're secretly jealous, and they they feel envious, that you're doing something that they can't or they're too scared to do. Or they really genuinely believe that you shouldn't be doing that. (Lesley: Yeah) And so that sort of well being shaming is unconscionably wrong, especially now. And that shit still happens, by the way, despite the fact that there's a pandemic and mental health is in the front and center of most conversations. So the response that I always tell people, to tell folks like that, who are discouraging you from engaging in healthy, reasonable practices to manage your emotional well being is as simple as this. Doing things to manage my mental health is a healthy adult practice. Can you help me understand why you don't agree? (Lesley: Ooh, I love that.) What are they gonna say? (Lesley: Right) What are they gonna say? (Lesley: Right) Right.

Lesley Logan 08:36

And also, like, first, they might be saying it because someone said it to them. And that's the workplace they grew up paying... (Melissa: There paying forward.) Yeah, and so they're just making sure we all gotta be, we all gotta stand this line. This is the line. This is a playground I played in. But also like, whether you're in a workplace, or, you know, family (Lesley laughs) must be nice. That, you know, I definitely get that a lot from some family members. And I know it's not a personal attack. I know it's them, not me and I ... (Melissa: It's their stuff.) It's their stuff. But it is like, yeah, okay. You don't have the weight of 25 people's payrolls on your brain, on your mind every day. This, this is what I this is what it takes for me to show up every day, so that I can be the best version of myself to pay them. (Melissa: Yeah) You know, and so I think like, that is a great, everyone it's in the show notes, write that down, copy and paste it, you can put it in text messages, or respond to (Melissa; Yes) this because we also they're never going to stop unless someone brings it to their attention that what they're doing is... (Melissa: thousand of ...) you know.

Melissa Doman 08:36

And and notice you're not even being defensive. You're you're making a statement and asking a question. Doing things to manage my mental health is a healthy adult practice. Can you help me understand why you don't agree? (Lesley: Yeah) That's it. And so I always tell people, please tell me how far they, their mouths dropped to the floor because they just what can you say to that?

Lesley Logan 10:01

Yeah. And (Melissa: So) it might, it might be exactly if they are someone who's never had this brought to their attention that they can even ask for for (Melissa: Exactly) things that support their mental health, it's going to help them see that. And if they (Melissa: Exactly) are someone who has been told this many times, they need to hear it more, they need to hear 17 to 21 touch points is how much it takes these days. So (Melissa: Oh my gosh. Yeah) isn't that crazy? Yeah. So okay, um, when people are, people listening to this are maybe thinking, "Okay, Melissa, I love this. I want to actually leave work at this time. But I don't want to feel bad about it." How do they have this conversation with a co worker? Or the or the gatekeeper (Melissa: Yeah) that that stands in their way? You know, how do they explain this to them?

Melissa Doman 10:44

So the challenging thing is that each workplace and even each team has their own set of kind of written and unwritten rules, so to speak. So this really depends not even on the company or the division, but the team. So you have to take this information and adapt it realistically, based on the situation you're in, there's no one size fits all. And so even now, with the fact that lots of folks are doing hybrid working, or they're doing you know, full time remote, some organizations are forcing people to go back in the office full time, which is a whole nother kettle of fish. And the thing is that it's about understanding that people have different levels of needs, people have different ways of working, different ways that energize how they work. And so it's not enough to say to someone, you know, I have to stop at five every day. There has to be, these are the reasons that I want to work this way. And this is how it's going to help me to feel good and to do good work. And so if you're going to share these sorts of things, people are not mind readers, no offense to people who believe in psychics, but I don't want to shit on anyone's beliefs. So people don't know what you need, unless you tell them. (Lesley: Yeah) Seriously, people don't know the type of help you need unless you tell them, people don't know what you want them to do with the information you share. Unless you tell them, they will fill in the blanks if you don't. (Lesley: Yeah) So if you need to say to a colleague, you know, I'm really trying not to be tethered to my email 24/7. You know, I'm gonna start putting my working hours in my email signature. And I'm going to try to honor that. And I'm going to ask that other people do as well, people do that now, where they write their working hours in their signature, and say, "I respond, you know, in these hours, if that doesn't work for you don't feel pressure to reply," and really just putting that boundary out there. And there reasonable ones, by the way, (Lesley: Yeah) And so if it's to a manager, who is like a horse blinders on, and they they wear their stress, like a badge of honor, you guys might have different expectations and needs. So it's not about pulling each other to the other side. Because when has that ever worked well, with (Lesley: Right) my human condition? The answer is never. And so just being clear about what the needs are, what the boundaries are, and being very clear about the why. And (Lesley: Yeah) also that it's not going to negatively impact because you do have a responsibility and a job. So just make it so clear that there was no room for confusion. And ask yourself, if your your, your requests are reasonable, you know, if your whole team works, you know, let's say I'm just gonna give a number nine hours a day. And you say you want to work six hours a day, that that may not be seen as reasonable, unless there are ways that you can make that up, or there has to be some sort of logic behind it, not just because you want it. (Lesley: Yeah. Right. Because it may be ...) So be practical pragmatic.

Lesley Logan 13:52

It may be that, that you may also just need to switch jobs then if like, if you really only can work six hours, and the the agreed (Melissa: Right) upon work schedule was nine hours, (Melissa: Right) and that's not you. And that's okay, too. It's also like, it's also goes both ways. You don't want to be shamed for your well being. But we also have to understand (Melissa: Right, they have them too.) that like, there's other expectations.

Melissa Doman 14:13

Right. (Lesley: Yeah) And I want to make it so clear. And I have lost track the number of times I've said this, you leaving a job, or even leaving an industry because it doesn't feel right for you anymore is not quitting. You're not giving up or any other ridiculous synonym that you might be thinking about. That's you making an emotionally intelligent decision and disengaging from something that doesn't work for you anymore. (Lesley: Yeah) It's really that simple.

Lesley Logan 14:43

Yeah, that's so keep that's ann I you know, if you're listening to this, and you're like, "Lesley, I don't really go into many workplaces or like I go into a studio and I leave." I feel like you can use all of this like around your family with your kids. You can say, "Hey, I would really love to play with you. I'm going to have to wait until this time and here's why." (Lesley laughs) No, their children, so good luck. But like, you, what if you talk with them.

Melissa Doman 15:06

Yeah but you even communicating with parents and siblings is like that, too, regardless of age. Come on. I have to be so clear with my parents when I'm like, "I don't need you to fix this for me. I just need you to listen." (Lesley: Yeah) And they just ignored it anyway. Well, what about this? Da, da, da, da is like. (Lesley and Melissa laughs)

Lesley Logan 15:25

Oh my God. Okay, so let's say let's like, let's tie into like people not listening or (Melissa laughs) you know the well being. What like, when it comes to, you know, our mental health well being? First of all, it does require us to have some idea of what it is that our needs are. (Melissa: Yeah) So what are what are... Do you have tools or tips that you would maybe have this in your book that you tell people, like do these things so that you can figure out what you need at your workplace? Or do these things you feel like you need in life? Yeah.

Melissa Doman 15:56

There is, in fact, an entire chapter dedicated to that. (Lesley: Really cool.) So it's basically an entire chapter just explaining not only how to talk about your own mental health at work, but all the pre work that you need to do. So there's a lot of self assessment that needs to go on first, before you even do that. Because oftentimes, people are driven to this point of desperation, where they need to talk about it, but because they get to that boiling point, they just word vomit all over other people. And then when people are like, well, I don't know what you want me to do weather respond the wrong way. And that's not through any fault of their own. A lot of people are conditioned to do that, that we hold it in until we go pop. (Lesley: Yeah) So the nice thing about and again, this is super practical, step by step very, you know, personalizable. Where you got to ask yourself, what are your concerns about talking about this at work? Is this your stuff? Is this an environment that you've witnessed in your organization? If you have concerns, where do those come from? And be very clear about that? If you feel unsafe talking to your manager, is that you think because you have bad past experiences with other managers? Or is your manager an asshole? You know, (Lesly: Yeah) there's so many questions, you got to ask, you know, where did these feelings come from? And then what do I want to share? Who do I want to share it with? Why do I want to share it? What do I want them to do with that information? (Lesley: That's a good question.) These are the questions. Because a lot of times like it feels like what I'm seeing is like 100% of the onus is on the listener, that's some bullshit. People need to also take some responsibility and how they pipe up and ask for help. (Lesley: Yeah) And people don't know what you need, unless you tell them. (Lesley: Yeah) And so it has to be both ways.

Lesley Logan 15:58

I really love that. It's, it's a both ways thing. Because I do know that like, I've been someone who like waits until it's like a boiling point. But then it's like, well, now what do I want them to do with it? And how do we ...

Melissa Doman 17:42

And so activated that you you don't even know the answer?

Lesley Logan 17:53

You don't know and so I think like, if it does come to a point where like, we have to have some enough self awareness on a daily basis to understand like, where am I at today so that... How am I receiving this? And how, what do I want people to do with it before it becomes a point where you can't even, you can't even know where to go? Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

Melissa Doman 18:22

Right. Because when you when you get in that state, I'm sort of nerd out for a minute if that's okay. (Lesley: Yeah) When you get in that state, and your body and brain are going into survival mode, your prefrontal cortex that makes us uniquely human, it's our personality, conscience, logic, all those adult words, that basically shuts off. So the other parts of your brain that are more geared towards survival, like the amygdala, like the fight, flight, freeze, response, and all that stuff, is all jacked up and pumping you full of adrenaline and cortisol. So when you're having those feelings, or even if you're in like a depressive episode, or you've been traumatized, or whatever it is, your ability to place a logic filter on those things is heavily diminished. So it's better to try and get a sense of what is that I actually need to ask for when you're not in that state. Because when you get in that say, it's really damn hard and that's not your fault. Your brain is like, "We can't handle that right now. Shut up. We're trying to just keep you alive." That's literally what it is, like the two parts of the brain are like, "Fuck you. No, fuck you." 

Lesley Logan 18:23

We don't have time for this. You waited too long. You didn't ...

Melissa Doman 19:39

Yeah. This is why we can't have nice things.

Lesley Logan 19:43

Oh my God. I just pictured the brain. I feel like a cartoon character. You know, what I do also think is really important about this. I hope everyone's hearing is like you may to end up going to work and telling your ... (Lesley laughs)

Melissa Doman 19:57

I might have a plushy brain.

Lesley Logan 19:58

Or just a plushy brain. You, this is why to watch the YouTube channel, everyone ... (Melissa laughs) to be plushy brain. But we if we don't do this, so let's say, you if you do this and you go and tell your boss and your boss is like, whatever I'm not here for the mental health, we did a meeting, and that's all we're doing here, we're checking a box. (Melissa: Those people still exist, by the way.) And they do and but if you don't do this, then whenever whether or not you leave that whe... or not you think that boss is actually gonna be receptive or not, you're still taking you with you wherever you go. And you're just (Melissa: Yeah) going to repeat the same, you can have a boss that actually talks about mental health. But if you aren't practicing what that barometer feels like for you, you're going to, you're going to miss the opportunity to have a good boss who's going to listen. Right?

Melissa Doman 20:43

And, and the thing is, and I want to be very clear, there are a whole variety of reasons why managers do or don't talk about mental health, we cannot assume there are a keep in mind, you know, leaders are fallible creatures, like the rest of us, they're humans first, say the job second, so give them just like a teeny bit of grace. (Lesley: Yeah) And so there are a whole host of reasons that they may or may not talk about it, it doesn't mean make it right. But it could be a bit of the they don't know how to start, or they screwed it up in the past, or they're very old school. And that's just not something you talk about at work. And so there are lots of reasons for that to occur. So the only thing you really can do is not only to you know, self organize those questions I was talking about, but if it's really something they avoid, try to understand why, you know, not in like an accusatory way. But like I noticed, you really seem like you don't want to talk about this. I don't want to assume the reason. Can you can you tell me? And so I distinctly remember, and I will never forget, keep in mind, I used to work in corporate as well, I was also equally tortured by managers that I described as emotionally constipated. (Lesley laughs) (Lesley: I've been with that.) And I'll never ... Oh my gosh, putting it mildly. So I will never forget one manager in particular, where it was very clear that this person practice favorites in the team and was like, just not a psychologically safe leader. I didn't make the favorite list. So I was treated as such. And it even got to the point where this manager was trying to kind of sabotage me sometimes in some of the stuff I was doing in the business. And when I don't hide my emotions, so this person noticed on my face that I didn't look pleased. And they said, "Are you okay?" I said, "No." They said, "You want to talk about?" I said, "Yeah." So after months of being terrified of this person, because make no mistake, they were absolutely a bully. And there were other people that this person bullied. And I sat down. And the first thing I said, was and this is true, you negatively impact my mental health at and outside of work to which they said, "Well, what's your proof?"

Lesley Logan 22:04

That's an interesting response. That's a really weird response. What's your proof?

Melissa Doman 23:04

Very, very, like sociopathic if you ask me, but I don't want to like clinicalize this. And I just laid it out. And because that person who's not willing to give me what I needed, the only other choice was to draw a boundary that I was not willing to accept that behavior anymore. (Lesley: Yeah) So you may not be able to give me what I need, but you are sure as fuck not going to abuse me this way anymore. (Lesley: Yeah) And so once I was had the, the strength to stand up to this person, the overt abuse stopped. But some, some managers cannot give you and won't give you what you need, because they don't even know how to do it for themselves. Or there could be (Lesley: Right) a whole host of other reasons. But you are chronologically aged adult and need to act as such.

Lesley Logan 23:58

Yeah, first, I think it's like it took, it took so much courage, and like probably a boiling point to get you to, to do what you did. But I also think I probably would have been like shaking in my pants trying to do it. I know every time I set myself ...

Melissa Doman 24:13

I was. I have nightmares about this person.

Lesley Logan 24:16

Yeah, but let's talk about that because I, I feel like, I feel like that's a being raised as a woman. And I don't I don't know that. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe maybe even people identify as males have a similar problem, like standing up to a boss. But like, I know, every time I had an abusive boss, where I felt like, "Oh, we got to be here, I actually need to work through my breaks. I need to do this." Cause that's what everyone's doing. It, I don't I remember thinking, I can't say, "I don't want to do this" or I you know, I just felt like as a as a, as a woman. I had the hard time of like standing up for myself. They might is that is it a gender thing or is it goes across the board?

Melissa Doman 24:54

So that's a very valid question. And the answer is kind of all the above. So there's so many factors that go into that. So obviously, there is the gender piece. And on top of that, there's also culture of origin, family of origin. Religion, there are lots of things that influence our belief as to whether we can or should stand up for ourselves. But in you know, when we're talking about gender, you know, historically, people who identify as female, were taught to be more relational, to not be boundary setting to be more flexible, to be more accommodating. What that's really code for is just people being allowed to step all over you without being sorry. (Lesley: Yeah) And on top of that, what I also noticed lots of like, super boss, bitches, who I've like the biggest respect for, is when they do put those boundaries down, or they do say their opinions. They follow it with a sorry. (Lesley: Yeah) And I just did this a few days ago to achieve level person who was one of my clients. And she kept saying, "Da, da, da, sorry, da da da, sorry, da da da, sorry." I said, "Excuse me, ma'am, you need to stop apologizing. What do you have to apologize for?" And she goes, "I know, it's a problem. "And I was like, "I'm a recovering people pleaser. (Lesley: Yeah) I know how to recognize gotta stop saying sorry. Like, you have nothing to be sorry for." And so but also, there's lots of men who struggled with that too. And sometimes you can have, you know, introversion that can also be a factor or conflict styles. That can also be a factor depending on how your conflict relationship wasn't primary caregivers, or past relationships. There are lots of things that can shape or side self permission, and how we talk about these things. But when we're talking specifically about gender, women still, in many, many circles are taught that being clear and assertive and decisive and boundary setting makes you a bitch. (Lesley: Yeah) Or makes you difficult, or whatever other ridiculous synonym. And there are some women who mask their aggression as those other things as an excuse, and we can be honest that those people exist. But generally speaking, that's not the case. (Lesley: Yeah) So it's really again, when it comes to that boundary setting and stuff like that, again, tying it back to mental health, especially as a female leader in the business because they still get shit. It's if they're like, "Well, I can you stop being so emotional, or whatever ridiculous thing that someone would say like you're a leader now you need to keep it together." Oh, my God, I can't. I have two words, Jacinda Ardern. That's it, I have nothing else to say like, she's the best. (Lesley: Yeah) And then and then it becomes talking about and managing my mental health is a healthy adult practice and something good that a leader can and should do, regardless of gender.

Lesley Logan 28:09

Well, I feel like that's a really amazing thing we can all think about with mental health. It's like a lot of people, there's a lot of things to think about mental health awareness month and all and everything. I think it's amazing that people are, like, I love that my father talks about he's 70 years old, like he's reading what happened to you. And he, you know, I know, it's really great. He's, I'm really, he's like, "Oh, maybe that's what's wrong with me, and my mother never helded me." And I'm like, "I'm just learning about this now. You were never held? Well, that makes a lot of sense." You know, but like, on the other side of this is a whether you're a leader or an employee in a business, when I'm the throw line here, and it's like a, you have to actually look into your own mental health first, you actually have to talk about your own well being and there can be no well being shaming of yourself so that when you (Melissa: Right) go into a workplace, now you can have an absolute bigger conversation, you can either be the the teacher that needs to be in the team, or if you are the leader, you can actually start to talk to your team about, hey, at and this team, we work, we work on, we work with mental health, I want to make sure we're we're adult well being. I want to make sure that your work schedule is working for you, as best as the company can allow it to work for it. Like we have, there has got to be a compromise. But I feel like it has to come from the person first so it can go to the team.

Melissa Doman 29:25

It does and on top of that, you know, I and there's an exercise for this in the book as well. I encourage every single team to have their own, "why we give a shit about mental health" sort of statement. In the team, not the company because every team is different in a company. Your own little micro ecosystems. Why do you all actually care about this? What is being flexible and giving each other some damn grace look like in this team? What does it look like when you create a culture of understanding not shaming around mental health? What does it look like when you are bandwagoning? And using things as an excuse that invalidate the story of others? And why we're not going to do that, you know, there has to be a come to Jesus very honest conversation about what those values are going to look like in practice, because oftentimes, people say, "Well, this is important." And then people go, "I don't know what that looks like." (Lesley: Right) So you got to sit down and actually work it out together. (Lesley: Yeah) It doesn't have to hurt.

Lesley Logan 30:30

No, it doesn't have to hurt in it. And it keeps coming back to like, do you said the questions already, but also like, why? (Melissa: Why?) ... why? Like, whether you're having a conversation with a co worker, or a family member or yourself, here's what I believe, here's what I need. And this is why I need it. And this, like, here's what we believe, as a team, this is what it looks like. And this is why we believe it.

Melissa Doman 30:52

And going even further than that, you know, sometimes your colleague or your manager is not the best person to help you. You have to keep in mind, they're not your therapist, they're not your psychiatrist and not your doctor, they ain't your mama. So sometimes there are certain things that your colleagues or your boss can and should help you with, and just be decent human beings. And sometimes they're not the best people to help you and you can't hold them responsible to be. (Lesley: Right) Sometimes it needs to be talking to a therapist, calling the AAP, speaking to HR, talking to your partner. And for example, when I was in clinical practice, if someone came to see me that what they were struggling with was really not in my wheelhouse. It was unethical and ineffective for me to keep treating them. So, I connect him somebody who can help them better than I can. (Lesley: Right) So it's about understanding, sometimes, you know, the folks in the workplace should be the ones to connect and support, and sometimes not.

Lesley Logan 31:52

Well, and sometimes it's like, you figure that out with your therapist, your partner, somebody and then you go ...

Melissa Doman 31:57

Or even your boss. Like the boss, "I feel like I can't be the one to help. Here are the people who can."

Lesley Logan 32:02

Yeah, yeah. And then, and then you can and then therefore, you can actually work it out. And you can figure out what you need. And then you can say, "Hey, here's what I need. And here's how it helps the team or here's how it helps the business or here's how it's going to help you." What compromise can we make so that my (Melissa: Right) mental health can have some, it's, you know, I do think like, we, I would love for every leader out there, including myself to be, you know, the most amazing at supporting mental health. But when you said it already, we're not mind readers, we're also human beings. There's responsibilities on everybody. So if we go with it, that everyone's doing the best they can, we all know that there are some people who could do better, but they're doing the best they can, and they're still not meeting your needs, you have to say something, because they can't know. And they probably want to help you if they can.

Melissa Doman 32:48

And also, there's not one way that that one person can meet all of those needs. I mean, it's just some people can't can't and won't give you what you need. And so you have to be prepared to take action of what how am I going to manage my own mental health? How am I going to manage the circumstance? How am I going to manage my expectations and my needs, who can meet these for me and who can't. And because anything short of that is just a waste of time, seriously. And so being ready to take action, because no one is responsible for managing your mental health except for you, the organization and your leader are responsible to have a duty of care and create a psychologically and physiologically safe environment for you to work. But then you need to carry the baton in terms of managing your own mental health, and you can't hold anybody else responsible. If they're terrorizing you, or bullying you or not giving you any sort of recognition or any way of meeting your needs. A conversation can happen in terms of how that's impacting you, because people are oftentimes not even aware of how they impact others. (Lesley: Yeah) But once you have that conversation, you're still responsible for how you take action to manage things, whether that's staying at that company with that person or not.

Lesley Logan 34:12

Right. It's like if you say you want X boundary, but then you keep letting people push into that boundary or abuse that boundary. It's ... (Melissa: Like they don't care.) They don't care. Like you still have to stand up for the boundary, like, "Hey, remember I said this is and you agreed and now you're crossing the line. If you're not going to be able to do that, then it might not be the right place for you. Or he might have to figure out another way to pull that boundary," you know, and it's hard. It's it's not easy to hold boundaries, that's for sure. But that's (Melissa: very uncomfortable) very uncomfortable, especially ... (Lesley laughs)

Melissa Doman 34:44

Well, people also don't like when you put down boundaries. People like to do what they want when they want.

Lesley Logan 34:50

Yeah, but there's also like, I do believe too that some people do want to know how to love, respect, and work with (Melissa: Yes) and you know, if they knew that every time They emailed you at five o'clock. It was actually upsetting you when they were really just emailing you because they're about to leave. They weren't expecting a response from you like, wouldn't that be a great conversation to have? It's like, "Hey, you email me every day at five o'clock, and it stresses me out." And it's like, "Oh, okay, well, I'll just have it. I'll have that boomerang to come at 6am tomorrow. When do you want email to come?" Yeah.

Melissa Doman 35:18

And the thing is that intention versus impact can be miles apart. And people are very creative, putting in the reasons why you did or didn't do or say something. So that is why I am just all about crystal clear, clarity, about intention.

Lesley Logan 35:39

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great, that's so great. Oh, my gosh, we could keep talking, obviously, (Melissa: forever) forever because I love you. And I love what you're talking about. (Melissa: I love you) And it's so honest, you know, like, we're not this is not a sugar coated, like, let's have a (Melissa: No) mental health, it's like to have very good mental health well being, you have to know what you want, you have to state what you want, why you need it, and then you have to be intentional about it. You know, and like, we all if we all are doing it for ourselves, it's so much easier to have that and hold that space for others. And so you can inspire other people to do it for themselves if you're doing it for you, too.

Melissa Doman 36:15

And the thing is, you know, human beings are naturally social creatures. We naturally lean on each other, we want to have that sense of belonging and safety and security, that is a natural human thing. It also needs to be balanced with taking some individual responsibility, that doesn't make you selfish, it doesn't mean that you're being totally isolationist and not allowed to lean on other people, you need both. And so that's why while I deeply appreciate all of the advocates and activists who have come before me saying, we need to talk about this, we need to talk about this. But then there's no practical implementation to enable people with the skill set to do so based in the reality that we all exist, not the hashtag tagable one that's created on social media. So I am a, I sometimes feel like I'm a cold splash of water to the face and a hot poker up the ass to some people. But it seems to work because they keep wanting me to talk about it. So

Lesley Logan 37:16

Yeah, well, I also think people just appreciate honesty, you know, like clear, kind and being honest, because it is refreshing, even if as a poker. (Melissa: Oh thank you. I appreciate that.) Melissa, where do you, where where can people find your book? Where can people talk to you more, can they hear more about how to implement this and take care of their mental health and well being?

Melissa Doman 37:35

So if you want someone to come in to be a sweet, swift kick in the ass to your organization, to have a better understanding of what mental health and mental illness actually are, and how to talk about it. You, well and constructively, don't be a stranger, reach out to me on my website, melissadoman.com, you can also add me on LinkedIn. My book is available, you can either get to through my website, or it's also available on Amazon. And my Instagram handle is @thewanderingmel. And my Twitter handle is Melissa Dolman LLC. Don't hesitate to reach out if I can help your company. And as a reminder, the name of the book is Yes: You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work: Here's Why... And How to Do it Really Well.

Lesley Logan 38:22

I love this. I really am so excited because so many people that listen to this do work somewhere. They don't just work from their house, they work somewhere. (Melissa: Yes) (Melissa laughs) And you know, I do believe that sometimes the thing that holds us back from the next thing we're going to do is the energy zapping, mental health draining thing that's happening at the workplace. And so if that can be a better source of love and support, then it's easier for you to do the thing that you're here on this planet to do. So, before I let you go. We have we asked everyone BE IT action items, bold, executable, targeted or intrinsic things people can do. So they can be it till they see it. So what do you have for us as far as mental health goes as far as BE IT steps?

Melissa Doman 39:03

So, I'm obviously very happy that you folks tuned in to hear me yak at Lesley for an out for an hour. What I would really prefer is you did something to action, this education, whatever that looks like. If that means reading the book, if that means trying to learn more about mental illness, if that means sharing about your own mental health with your boss or supporting a colleague that you know has been struggling, please take action immediately because it is a damn mess out there. And there is no reason that you cannot take concrete practical steps to show authentic care to yourself or someone else. And mental health at work is never going away. So it's your choice about when you want to take part in that journey. And please, please take the steps to develop this conversational literacy whatever resource that is and do not sit on this education because education without action is a big fat waste of time.

Lesley Logan 40:06

Yeah. Well, when this one woman I listened to she says, "Information without integration is constipation." So (Melissa: Ah, that's so much better.) ( Lesley laughs) And that great. I love that one. So anyways, well, gosh, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, really for just, you know, educating us in so many ways and also allowing people to go, "Yes, that's exactly how I wanted to be at work." (Melissa laughs) I'm sure, a lot of people are like nodding their head along with you like,"This would be amazing." So a lot of people feel seen. Y'all how are you going to take action? How are you going to take action towards supporting yours or other people's mental health at work in your life? Do us a favor, screenshot this, tag @thewanderingel, tag @be_it_pod and let us know your takeaways. And if you're like, "Lesley, I don't even share things on my Instagram. It's private." Then text this to a friend, a colleague, your boss, say "Hey, this would be really amazing" so that they can hear the amazing tips that you just heard today and also we can help others Be It Till You See It. That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day! 'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 41:44

It's written produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 41:55

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 41:59

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 42:08

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all videos each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 42:20

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Back for another recap episode, Clare Solly and LL riff back and forth about the root of fulfillment, shadow work, and the importance of finding people with similar life goals. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Hacks for the best branding photos
• Creating things based on personal needs
• Working out for health and longevity
• Connecting with people from linking experiences 
• The stories that direct our life
• Tripping and falling is a part of the shadow work
• Digging into the negative feelings to find the positivity

Episode References/Links:

• Astrology: The Ultimate Guide to the 12 Zodiac Signs, Numerology, and Kundalini Rising + A Comprehensive Guide to Tarot Reading

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my best friend, Clare Solly and I are going to dig into the phenomenal convo I have with Helaine Knapp in our last episode. If you haven't yet, listen to that interview, feel free to pause this now and go back and listen to that one, then come back and join us. My mom just blew up my phone because she has been watching all of the, all of the episodes in one row. Like she's just doing all of them. And she watches them on our YouTube channel. And she likes to watch the recaps first and then the interview because she says it helps her pay more attention to the interview. That being said everyone, you can do it your own way. I so we are recording this in the past, in the present time of today, which is today is a Pilates day, and you are gonna get it sometime in a couple of weeks. So this is Pilates day was the first Saturday of May, it's International Pilates day. And Brad and I drove out to LA, stayed at my favorite hotel, we took Bayon with us. And then we did Pilates day as a convo. Class two, because May is not only Mental Health Awareness Month, it's also for support Foster Care Awareness Month, foster youth. And so anyways, if you follow along with OPC, we actually donate a percentage of all of our profits to charities that support foster youth. And there's many reasons for doing this. It's so so important. And there's so many kids who age out of the foster care system and they don't have any support. They don't have any parents or family unit to go to. I mean, at 18 I don't know that I should have just been like out in the world, on my own. So so I'm really grateful to those of you who donated, who came. Thank you so much for those who who donated and couldn't come and that's really amazing. We ... we raised several $100 for foster youth and I also got to meet, you know there was different businesses there that were also selling their amazing pieces and donating parts of all their sales. So I'm sure it was thousands of dollars when we combine everyone's efforts. And so just thank you everyone. That was really a lot of fun. Okay, Clare, welcome back. (Clare: Hi. Thank you.) Clare Solly everyone. She's back.

Clare Solly 2:53  

I'm back. I'm so excited to be here. And if you are watching the YouTube you're you're witnessing my my lioness mane this morning.

Lesley Logan 3:01  

I know. I don't know the last time I saw down.

Clare Solly 3:05  

Yeah, I yeah, I don't I don't know either. But I've got a lot of hair. (Clare laughs)

Lesley Logan 3:11  

I understand, you and me both. It started off like if you're watching on the YouTube, my hair start on the center of my head, but for whatever reason, it must be the shape of my head. It always falls to the left. Or maybe it's the way I twist the hair. Maybe that's what it is. Anyways that this this is a, we could be a hair commercial. Is really, if you are a hair product company would like some models, the two of us have too much hair we can definitely... (Clare: Totally) So Clare's back, Clare is @youwontbesolly on Instagram. She is one of my best friends. We've known each other since 2001. And she ...

Clare Solly 3:45  

My friend cuz it's old enough to drink we established on our last show.

Lesley Logan 3:49  

I know ... in happy hour. And you have been doing several recaps with me stepping in for Brad because Brad has a life and also his own pod company. And he runs all the companies and he was in Cambodia for many weeks. And so too many weeks, actually. So you've been helping me out here. So welcome back.

Clare Solly 4:08  

Thank you so much. It has been a delight. I mean, first of all, I'll sit around and talk to you forever and ever and ever. But it's also been fun as a listener to go back and hear, you know, Brad's versus my opinions and I like I was actually really impressed by the la... the one that dropped this week that we listened to. (Lesley: Oh yeah) But also it like being a guest is fun to come back of being a guest host is fun. So I think we asked originally on our first one, like if anybody wants to come be a guest, recapist, you know, or if anybody is interested in hearing a guest recapist (Lesley: Yeah) like tell us in in the comments.

Lesley Logan 4:43  

Yeah, let us know if you're liking guest recaps or if you are missing Brad, it's okay. You won't offend anyone we, you know, inquiring minds want to know, but yeah you (Clare: Yeah) were you were originally, you're episode 19?

Clare Solly 4:55  

19.

Lesley Logan 4:57  

Yeah, yeah. So I know I think this one is episode 102. So look where we're at.

Clare Solly 5:03  

Amazing, amazing. And I think I think I was like one of the first couple that you recorded. So it's, it's been such a journey. So exciting.

Lesley Logan 5:11  

I know. We ... (Clare: Here's too hundred more.) There's to hundred more at least that's what we're in for. Well, we have so much to talk about with Helaine. But before we do that, do we have a question from the audience? Or are you stealing the show?

Clare Solly 5:23  

I'm gonna steal the show yet again. Because this is, has been one of my exciting things to do. So I know that you said that you get a lot of business questions, but I think this question actually can help anybody, anybody who has their own business and or whatever. How, so you take fantastic photos. (Lesley: Oh thanks.) You are like, and again, you're one of my best friends. So I like I'm always excited to see your shows. I mean, your your photos. But how do you besides just being stunning. Like, how do you, what are your tips on taking a good picture? Because there are some days when it's like you have not you personally but like me, like there's too much chin. There's the wrong angle. Like, what are your and I know you've worked with photographers and things too. So what are like two or three tips that you can share with anybody on how to be a good model in a picture, (Lesley: Yeah) even if you're taking yourself.

Lesley Logan 6:21  

Oh, this is so fun. So I do take I do have a lot of professional shots. I have been doing that for a long time for someone who's not an actress I like I feel like knowing you, you're like only personally I knew was taking headshots all the time. And I'm like, "Really you need new headshots again, you need new headshots again?" And now we are doing, in LA I did a photo shoot almost monthly, which was not, I mean it was like every few months actually. And and then and then when I'm now that we're in Vegas, my photographer comes out twice a year. So I do I do, but I just do two hours at a time. So I basically do the same amount of shoots, but just pack them in. So tips, first of all, actually find a photographer that you have like a relationship with or you think you can build one. Like you'd want to be friends with them, because if they don't say anything to you, you don't really, really know what you're doing. And so, so that can be a little difficult. And so I love, my photographer is Monica Linda, of Girl Squad Media. And she is she's really good about ...

Clare Solly 7:24  

Who is also one of a podcast. (Lesley: Yeah) She was like, back in the teens too, I think.

Lesley Logan 7:28  

She's back in the teens as well. She has a great Be It story. And she is, it's crazy what she's coming up with. It is insane. She just opened a podcast recording studio, which is yeah, really, (Clare: Wow) really cool. Yeah. So you can, instead of having to sit in your closet, you can just like go to her studio, which is really cool. So I would say first, find a photographer that you like, they might be more expensive than you feel like paying. And I promise you paying less money with a photographer who don't jive with getting photos you can't use is like wasting money. So really get on the phone with them, build a relationship that helps. Second thing is laughing out loud makes great pictures. And people who came on my business retreat as like, "Okay, everyone laugh out loud." And they're like, they're no one made sound. I'm like, "No, you actually have to laugh out loud." (Lesley laughs out loud) Right. And when you do that, firstly, you look at your laughing, second you smile, everything looks brighter, lighter, and more fun. And it's better than just smiling all the time. Like no one wants to see a bunch of photos of you just like, no, no offense, like your friends do, your family does, but really, like you can't really use all of those. So you have to do some different things. And then also, you will start to learn your angles, I'm sure Clare as an actress, even you know, you know that there's angles, and there are some angles that I I have to be very careful. If I am sitting, I need to make sure that I get my head forward of my body. Otherwise, it starts to like everything starts to sink down. And then you know, I don't have any like, like there was like more chin there, just like, I lose, I lose the my facial structure when I do that. Which I think is why people think I'm so stunning. I was like, "I gotta get the head in front." The other thing is, when you're taking pictures, don't just sit there and just take like, let them take the same picture 17 times, you didn't change. So you do little tweaks, right like so you like have your head looking at them one way, then you tilt it another way, then you move your hand from your knee to your other hand or to your shoulder or, you know, so you do these little tiny tweaks so that you can get like 20 different photos in the same situation. Natural lighting to me is way better than artificial lighting. You're just gonna it's hard. I have blue eyes and like getting outside in the sun to get the I have to so I close my eyes and she counts to three and then I open them and then we close my eyes we count to three we open them. So those kinds of things. Know your colors. There are some colors that don't look good on you. It's okay. I don't care how in style they are. Let them go, ditch them. And then also this is really huge. Invest in getting your hair and makeup done, and you're going to hate how much makeup you're wearing, you're not going to love it. In fact, when I'm in real life, I'm like, "We better be going out to a boat party, wedding, something because I look way too dumb to stay at home." But when you get the photos back, you actually don't look too done up, you look really like you actually have depth and dimension. So you have to do your makeup very differently for photos because otherwise if you just it's like we're talking bronzer here, people if you're not wearing it, you'd lose your cheeks. So to basically too long, didn't read get hair and makeup artist and get a photographer that can tell you what to do. Play music. I didn't say this. Play some music that makes you feel like alive you don't have to dance, but like just makes you feel like a party. And then and then wear the colors that look good on you. So you know, I hope that helps.

Clare Solly 10:52  

So many suggestions. I love this. I love it all. So go back and look at Lesley's feed. Look at the @be_it_pod feed. Comment on those photos. And that you can see these tips in ...

Lesley Logan 11:02  

It's so fun. You know what's really annoying is that Brad just shows up and there's no hair and makeup and (Lesley laughs) he like there's something guys don't, they don't have to do it all. I don't understand. He looks great without it. But anyways, ladies, I got melasma so I gotta you know put some makeup on. (Clare laughs)

Clare Solly 11:19  

Oh, so yeah, I mean it's it's fantastic. And and I know you as a business owner, you are the face of your business. So you know you have to take ... but even for amateurs who are taking photos, (Lesley: Oh) it's good to have those tips. It's good to know.

Lesley Logan 11:35  

Everybody you all need at least a headshot. If you are because they're gonna want it, you're gonna need it, you put it on all of your socials anyways, you're gonna want on LinkedIn, you're gonna want on your resume, you're gonna want it for an interview, you're gonna be on a podcast they gonna ask you for your headshot. So at the very least get a headshot. Everyone needs them. But also it is kind of fun to look back and go, "Oh, what a fun day that was." Or "Oh, I remember that haircut." (Clare: Yeah) Yeah, well, thanks for that question. Y'all, so Clare, keep stealing the questions, but you can actually ask whatever questions do you want? Just go to the @be_it_pod, put it in a comment or DM us and we'll answer it all in the show.

Clare Solly 12:11  

Fantastic. Yeah. And speaking of the show, we should probably recap Helaine Knapp's episode with you from last week. So (Lesley: Let's do it.) a quick bio about Helaine Knapp. She's the founder and CEO of CITYROW. After spending years of climbing the corporate ladder, Helaine left the world of publishing for tech start-up. Group Fitness was her outlet while she was working hard on the hustle and bustle of New York City (I know it will). Months of spin and bootcamp classes left her with lower back injury. However, she began searching for a workout that was low impact but super effective after a friend suggested rowing, Helaine initially rejected it as something her dad did in college but following a few (Lesley laughs) work workouts on a sexy machine pairing with a total body sculpting moves off the machine changed her mind and the concept for CITYROW was born. That and CITYROW has this mission of delivering a fun, smart, effective workout of all to all fitness levels. And it has grown from CITYROW has grown from one studio in New York City to a national omnichannel fitness brand. She's she's amazing.

Lesley Logan 13:16  

She's amazing. She's so fun.

Clare Solly 13:18  

... I this was I think I'd say this every time. But this was one of my favorite episodes that I got to listen to. So I'm so excited I get to talk about this with you. Then, speaking of what was one of your favorite things that you talked about with her?

Lesley Logan 13:34  

Oh, I'm so excited. And also so as Bayon that's the chain you're hearing in the background. He's just letting us know he's excited too. You know, I heard her another pod as I mentioned on on the podcast's interview and I just really thought what a be it till you see it story like way a just... I mean y'all she's not a fitness instructor and she started a fitness business. And I think that's, I can't stress enough how important that is for you to, to know. And that's what like leads into my thing that I love that she said which like, "Building CITYROW based on a personal need." And so like, I think we often think we have to be the expert at something like some of us have ideas and we think, "Oh, I have to go get that training or this training, that I need this training. And then I need to do these. I need to get all those photos that go along with it." Like we build up the the the opportunity to do something so much that it takes decades to create the thing. And really, she just was like, "I have this idea. Let me find someone who can teach the class that I want to take, and let me build the business of the place I want to go." And so if you have a problem, maybe you can team up with people who can help you solve that problem. And so then you'll love your thing so much. You can't help but sell it. I just think, it's I think it was genius.

Yeah, that was that was really great. And she also mentioned like, yeah, well to kind of piggyback on that, surrounding yourself with people and just building on that. Yeah, I mean like building on the idea because yeah, you know, you are, you live in your little pocket of the world. And Lesley you know this very well, because I've seen you do it multiple times, you live in your little pocket of the world. And then you can find people who also have, who also have the drive that have similar or different linking experiences. And so you can can build something (Lesley: Yeah) within that. I love that sense of community that turns into a business.

Yeah. And I think like, you know, did you watch WeCrashed? They didn't sponsor the show everyone, so don't go like saying, "Thanks." But did you watch the series?

Clare Solly 15:41  

I didn't.

Lesley Logan 15:42  

Okay, let me just tell you. That you can listen to the podcast every one on like one half speed and get the whole gist of it. You don't have to actually watch so but I will say Anne Hathaway did do a frickin amazing job. She really was made for that role. And I don't know that that's a compliment. But it should be. But I mean it to be. But at any rate, the first episode is like about him, like, trying to sell heels that like can turn into flats. And like, almost cut off, like his sister's hand when she's trying to like make the heel because like, you know, like ladies are walking around in New York City, you can walk on your heels. So like, you could like turn the heel, one way, then you can walk on the shoe like a flat, you could pop it out. And then he was creating these like knee pads for babies like so close, it had knee and elbow pads and for babies, but he wasn't passionate about any of those things, he was just thinking, "There's a hole in the market, or there's this thing I can create, I'm going to create, it's gonna make a lot of money." And the reality is, is that you have to actually care about what it is that you're creating, in some way it has to affect your life or someone else that you like, love and trust. Otherwise, you're just going to show up and it's going to be like selling paint on a wall. It's like, Yeah, this is nice, you know, and, and wallpaper is nice, but you don't have to build it. So I really, I think it just goes back to like, create things based on your personal needs, or someone you know, that you really care about. And you're going to feel a lot more unstoppable when the obstacles come your way. So what is something you love, she said?

Clare Solly 17:09  

I loved like the there's like this is kind of a two parter, like working out for the body's health and longevity. And just do one thing, and just keep doing it. I find it hysterical that you are one of my best friends. And you are so into working out. And I am so into sitting around and not. (Lesley laughs) And and I have a couple of friends who are in the fitness industry who are my closest friends. And I'm like, "No, but really, can we just sit and talk?" (Clare laughs)

Lesley Logan 17:44  

You got a friend who's a spin instructor or you've got friends who do these things. And like, you're like, and we're like, "Hey, let's go" and you're like, "Yeah, let's just hang here."

Clare Solly 17:54  

Well, and a couple of years ago, we talked about this a little bit, or you mentioned it before on the pod. We had a blog that's now like defunct, and we had talked about trying to we had this idea where we were we were giving challenges and I was like, "I know I need to make a change in my life. I know I need to work out more" because I like to move. I just like to do it in a way that doesn't feel like I'm working out and sweating and like whatever. So I started doing two sun salutations a day, because I could commit to doing two sun salutations. (Lesley: Yeah) Because I could do them while my coffee pot was like brewing. So I'd get up, have a glass of water, set the coffee to brew, go to the living room and do 10, two sun salutations, which takes like two, three minutes, depending on how deep I'm going and how long ...

Lesley Logan 18:40  

Yeah, if you're going by breath, or if you're just like going through ...

Clare Solly 18:43  

And some days, like my body was just like do the movements and be done. And some days I was like, "I want to hold this stretch, and I want to do this." And it I could feel a difference when I was doing it. And when I was not doing it like I would have some days where I'd be like, "Ah, I don't really do need to do it. Doesn't make that much difference." And it does. And (Lesley: It does.) like it was weird because like, I I knew that when I hadn't done them for a couple of days. I was going to hurt myself a couple days later because it's that was the cycle. (Lesley: Oh yeah) And so it's like my body's health was or my body was appreciating just those couple of minutes of care I was giving it. And even though it was only a couple and sometimes, like and again, I would go to a spin class like once a week or I'd go you know do some other seven. I'm live in New York, I walk constantly. (Lesley: Yeah) But those two sun salutations and committing to those has been such a change. And you know ...

Lesley Logan 19:43  

Are you still doing them this many years later? (Clare: I am.) That's amazing.

Clare Solly 19:47  

I am. I think it's been four or five years. I get up every morning and and I fallen off the wagon like I (Lesley: Yeah) you know. You know we all know that little little pandemic happened and so you know, depression, whatever, but ...

Lesley Logan 20:00  

... that little thing. (Lesley laughs)

But it's amazing. And sometimes like, I'll hurt myself or it's my, you know, women's cycle of the month, things like that. So it's like you're not supposed to do inversions when you're on your period. And so like, but I'll, I'll, I won't necessarily do down dog, but I'll still do or no up dog. Well, I can't remember. (Lesley: Yeah) Whatever the one where your butts in there, (Lesley: That's a down dog. Yeah.) Down dog, great. I can't remember. (Clare laughs) But I'll do I'll do the stretches. And I'll do like, I'll find myself like doing plank and some months, I'll challenge myself and like, "Hey, let's see how long we can hold plank for and then hold it for 10 seconds longer tomorrow." And (Lesley: That's ...) I got up to like, three minutes in plank.

Are you serious? That's insane. Yeah, I am at a two minute handstand, by the way. (Clare: Oh wow!) Yeah. Yeah. And that's after taking, like, I think I took six months off of yoga and not for any reason. To be honest, I love my teachers, I have two teachers I frickin love and both their classes are at sucky times. So one guy, he's on Tuesdays and Thursdays, which may be now on Tuesdays, I'll get back into because that would be a nice way to end the day. I just happen to have happy hour at that time. So it would just be it just became a little weird Brad and I are doing happy hour, like zoom class, doing yoga. And I'm in a little sip anyways, don't anyone needs no one needs to tell me the how I shouldn't be drinking while I'm doing my yoga. But at any rate, I picked it back up probably six weeks ago. And I you know, it was amazing. I could still do the minute long handstand. And then he was like, "Okay, we're doing two minutes in the second week." I was like, "Two minutes, I just came back to the five, I'm surprising to do one minute." But your body does have this incredible memory. If you're really consistent with something you can get it, you can get back into it pretty well. And I want to just talk about something you mentioned, you're doing 2, and you committed 2 and sometimes you do a plank hold or sometimes you just do a different stretch. All of those little additions are things that BJ Fogg says, "You'll know when you can start to expand that. When you can start to like, make it five sun salutations or two sun salutations and a hip stretch." And it's also okay, if one day you just go to the two sun salutations, because the habit is actually just the two sun salutations. Everything else is extra credit. So,

Clare Solly 22:08  

Yeah. And it's it's the commitment to it too. Like I actually, I, when I'm on vacation, or things like that, like I'll like I would not do them on vacations originally. And now I just excuse myself, because that two minutes, that five minutes, whatever that is that I give myself is worth it.

Lesley Logan 22:34  

Well, yeah, it really is. And so, you know, I've been doing morning pages, and I too fell off the wagon with those with the little pandemic. Because I my excuse was, it's so freakin hot in the morning, I have to get outside and walk the dogs, because every minute I'm sitting there, it's just baking the asphalt more. But the reality is, is that I have to do my morning pages. So I'm just going to have to go to bed a little earlier or wake up earlier and make sure make room for a nap later in the day like those are because I, like you I don't get injured, I get pissed off. And it's because I didn't put the things that are pissing me off on a piece of paper and I kept them inside. And so anyways, back to Helaine and your takeaway, I really am glad you picked that one out. Because I do think people think, "Oh my gosh, like, I have to go to a 30 minute class or I have to go to an hour long thing." And you can just pick one thing and like you said, and just do that.

Clare Solly 23:28  

Yeah, well, and this is and again, not to like do a spot for you. But like, this is one of the reasons I love OPC. Like, I'm an OPC member. And sometimes I'll turn it on for like five minutes. And I just only do five minutes of Pilates. Like is that the right thing to do? Well, I mean ...

Lesley Logan 23:45  

It's exactly. (clare: I do 5 minutes, 5 minutes is better than nothing.) It's exactly right for you. (Clare: Yeah) And it's also why we say, "Finishing is optional." (Clare laughs)

Clare Solly 23:53  

Yeah. Sometimes I do the whole thing, and it seems like no time has gone by. Sometimes I'm like, "Nah, I'm good with five minutes."

Lesley Logan 24:01  

I know I um, I can always tell my energy level when I'm at my workout with my trainer. And if she ends 20 minutes early, and I'm like, "Ah, 20 minutes early." I mean, not that early. Like we did the workout. Right? But if I if I like or the other day I went and I was so grateful it ended after just the one workout that she created. I was like, "Okay, we're stretching. Okay, good. I can do that." I was like, I was like, "Oh, yes." I can always tell like where my body's energy is at and like if I need if I like when she's one of the stretching habits if I wanted more if I had like so grateful that we're stretching. Yeah, finishing is optional everyone, intentional movement is important. And just pick one thing and do that. Okay.

Clare Solly 24:41  

Yeah. (Lesley: All right, Clare.) We move on to the BE IT action item?

Lesley Logan 24:46  

Let's do it. Let's recap what's what's your, let's go into the BE IT action items that she gave us.

Clare Solly 24:50  

Yeah, so um, I the bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action item that I really liked. And I sort of said this before is surround the people or surround yourself with people on the same journey as you. Which I think I mean, yes, definitely surround yourself with people that are similar. But and you've said this several times, like surround yourself with people who are different, but have the same motivation, like the that are going towards the same direction or want the same thing. Like you mentioned, the the, the, the we work thing earlier, and the how the guy was making all these different products. And it's like, well, what's his goal, that those were not aligned with his goal? (Lesley: Yeah) So therefore, they weren't successful? And like, what is your goal? What are you aiming towards it? Even if it seems like something that is totally not connected. And I think we talked about this on my episode of the podcast, like, this is the manifesting piece, right? This is like, what do you want from your life, and how, and then you'll find the map to get there. And you said, you surround yourself with those people, and connect yourself with those people that can help you either motivate you or share in that directional pole pointing to get you to that. (Lesley: Yeah) And she ... people.

Lesley Logan 26:15  

I, well, I couldn't agree more. And also, like, it's, the other people have had BE IT action items like, like, make sure you're like, you're you have, like, you know, the pre... people, positive people around you. And like, Brad and I work together, and we do a lot of masterminds. But we, that are and we work really great, we can find really great collabs. But very few of those people work with their, with their partner. So we actually have to be intentional about finding other couples working together. Because they get us on a different level. And so there's something about like, I can, for example, I was in LA yesterday, and we were visiting with some people, none of whom worked work work for themselves. So of course, they don't get when I say like, "Oh, we've got a launch coming up that's when we get back." They're like, "Oh, I wish you could stay." It's like, hmm, you clearly have no idea how many parts go into a launch and how much time that isn't much brain space it is. And so but when I say to a friend on a text message, who is an entrepreneur like, "Oh, yeah, we're on our way back, we have a launch kicking off in a few days." She's like, Oh my gosh, get some sleep. Make sure you're drinking lots of water." Like so when you surround yourself with people are on the same journey. There's almost like, you have almost like your own special code of language, and so they can get you on a deeper level. And also keep you up and make you excited about things when you're down. So yeah, I ...

A slingshot friend.

A slingshot friend like Clare is. Yes, yes. I'm glad you brought that one up. I feel like that one is hard for people to do. They have a hard time because they think they have to let go of other people.

Clare Solly 27:52  

Yeah, but I mean, you don't and that and again it it doesn't even have to be they don't have to have the same goal again, it's just sort of the same direction. Like, "What do you want out of life?" Like you and I both want fulfillment from our our endeavors. Right? And, and . It's not it's not a house. I mean, yes, those things come along with that. But it's like, we want to continually to be excited and fulfilled by the things that we we do with our lives.

Lesley Logan 28:25  

Yeah, yeah. No, it's true. It's it doesn't have to be like you don't have to find an, if you're a fitness or more fitness people. You could just it could be someone who also is trying to build something and create community and similar directions in life. I love that.

Clare Solly 28:40  

What was one for you?

Lesley Logan 28:41  

I loved get to know yourself. I think we've had similar versions of this come up before and I picked it anyways because I really don't think a lot of people spend enough time getting to know themselves. And there's so many different ways you can get to know yourself for example, yesterday I had an oracle card and tarot card reading. And that was very fascinating and was actually really fascinating how much she like, 'knew about me without knowing me.' I was like, "What is this? How do you know that?" But you don't have to get those kinds of readings to get to know yourself. There's just, you can get know to yourself in different ways. But you have to understand like, why are you getting frustrated about that? Why are you afraid of that? What is this thing that is making you you know, snap or or not believe in yourself or not get out of bed? And you know, like not go 5 4 3 2 1 in action. Like what it like get to know yourself because then only then can you actually build a life, like you said a fulfillment or alignment. You know, if you hate the mornings, why do you hate the mornings? Is it that you're not a morning person? Or is it you're going to bed at 1am and that you're asking yourself to get up at 6am. Like, actually get to know yourself so you can actually take steps in the direction of of creating the life that you want to live or being it till you see it. And so I just I think, I think getting to know yourself is a lifelong journey.

Clare Solly 30:08  

If you're into the woowoo, like I am, I know Brad is not and Lesley you're like a medium woo. (Clare laughs) A lot of a lot of the woowoo folks are talking about shadow work right now, which is like if you see that shadow work means just what you were saying. Like it means think through the stuff in your past, or the things that you don't like or the triggers for yourself. I actually had one coach that was like, anytime you have an accident, you trip, you run into something, you bump into something that's like to like, have you realign with a whatever that that thought was.

Lesley Logan 30:44  

Oh, my gosh, so when you fell on the sidewalk, and you like knocked yourself.

Clare Solly 30:48  

I, yeah, exactly. Well, and I again, I sat around trying to, like, heal for I don't know, why did air quotes, like heal from that not just physically, but like, what was I thinking at the time and what I was saying I was worried about my work and how I like that different. Like, I had just gotten back from vacation. And I was, I still had like two days before I had to go back to work. And I was like, my mind was racing about all these different pieces. And I think it was like, "No, no, you have to let stuff go."

Lesley Logan 31:19  

Interesting. That's so interesting that you bring that up, I didn't know that tripping and falling can be part of that shadow work or that part of like, getting you back in alignment. That's so fascinating.

Clare Solly 31:30  

And it doesn't even have to be as anything as big as my fault. Like, I my stationary bikes, it's in my tiny, tiny apartment and I run into the handle all the time. And I know I can go out and around. But I bump into it. I'm like, "Okay, what was I just thinking? I was thinking negative." And a lot of times it's negativity about myself, (Lesley: Oh) like, I'm not good enough. Or I'm like, I'm not, I haven't made the time. Like, I haven't not. Yeah, I haven't made the time for it. And it's like, well, no things come in the time that they're meant to, or things will happen in the time that they're meant to. And and yeah, it's the the more you deal with the icky stuff, like I am not a morning person. And it's, it's because I find more creativity at night. (Lesley: Yeah) And part of it is you know, I'd like I have an acting background, I do theater. Theater is mostly at night in the evenings. (Lesley: Yeah) I'm sort of geared to that. And again, my creative time, I'll get sleepy around like, 8 to 8:30 and then 9 to 11. I am super creative and super focused. And I find so much writing time in that in those.

Lesley Logan 32:37  

Did you get to a little nap hour in there? Yeah, but so I you know, I just think we, I, I downloaded a book called Astrology and the Kundalini Rising, because apparently, I'm entering my Uranus opposite Uranus time. And so I know I am a medium woo, but I'm going in. Because this is very interesting. There's some interesting stuff that they have, you know, discovered. It's not like a roadmap, but it is a roadmap. And it's again, just about getting to know yourself. If you find yourself complaining about the same thing. Write about it, and (Clare: Yeah) ask yourself. We had a guest Thor, who's like, talk about morning pages as well. He'll write about it. He's like, "Who... I can't do that. Who says I can't do that?" Oh, (Clare: Yeah) "I say I can't." Like get to know yourself because it really is the key to unlocking a lot of things. We tell ourselves some incredible stories. When people (Clare: Yeah) tell me a storyteller, I'm like, "I bet you tell yourself some whoppers." Just ...

Clare Solly 33:34  

There's an Ashton Kutcher quote that "We all sit around on a pile of collective stories." I think it's Ashtron that like ...

Lesley Logan 33:44  

I never thought we would quote Ashton Kutcher on this podcast. So, thank you. (Lesley and Clare laughs)

Clare Solly 33:49  

There's a first. It was it was one of those like, I was reading a book and like it was the top of the chapter and I was like, "Of all people." But yeah, like it's just a pile of collective stories, y'all. Like (Lesley: Yeah) so you can weed out the ones like our memory is selective like there are things about our like, we have a collective past and I don't you'll you'll remember things that I don't like and and I don't remember things that you know, or I remember things that you don't (Lesley: Yeah) And it's again, we can weed anything out. We our brains are wired that way to keep us safe and ...

Lesley Logan 34:29  

... and also tell yourself a different story about the thing because (Clare: Yeah) you can also like I could talk about how like, "Oh, I wish like I had a terrible childhood whatever blah blah." And then I can also say, "You know I had the exact childhood though set me up to be this person that I am because I wouldn't be this peer. I didn't have that childhood. So like it kind of benefit the hell out of me. So maybe I can read..." You know what I mean? Like we could actually like you know, you can as you said you can weed it out or you can change it.

Clare Solly 34:54  

Yeah, see that see the light side of the the see the positivity in something. (Lesley: Yeah) And don't be afraid to go deep into the stuff that that is ne... that feels negative because there's positivity in there too.

Lesley Logan 35:06  

Oh, for sure that is, that's good that's another BE IT action item and we can put on there go into that, go into the, go in there. Do you remember that? We'll talk about this offline but there was that movie where he had to like Robin Williams had to go into like ...

Clare Solly 35:20  

A what the ... What Dreams May Come?

Lesley Logan 35:22  

Yes. And he did like go in there and they had to like weed it out, like a weed it out to get her out of there. (Clare: Yeah) It was ... chills deep. Anyways, everyone. I'm Lesley Logan.

Clare Solly 35:33  

I'm Clare Solly.

Lesley Logan 35:34  

Thank you so much for joining us today. We're so grateful you're here. How are you going to use these tips in your life? Let us know by sending a DM to the pod and on Instagram and we'll catch you on the next episode.

Clare Solly 35:44  

Bye y'all.

Lesley Logan 35:47  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'. 

Brad Crowell 36:20  

It's written produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 36:31  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 36:36  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 36:44  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all videos each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 36:56  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

What problem plagues your daily life? Discover how founder of CITYROW, took some messy action when she realized she needed a sweaty workout that also supported her body and it was nowhere to be found in the market. It’s an episode full of jumps, constant learning, and finding the right seat for your success.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Building CityRow based on a personal need
• Working out for the body’s health & longevity
• Taking a step forward, listening to feedback, and learning
• Determining what you are good at and finding the right seat
•   * Self-awareness 
• Surrounding yourself with supportive people 

Episode References/Links:

• CityRow website
• IG

Guest Bio:

HELAINE KNAPP

Founder & CEO of CITYROW

After spending years climbing the corporate ladder, Helaine Knapp left the world of publishing for tech start-up life. Group fitness was her outlet while working hard and taking on the hustle and bustle of New York City. Months of spin and boot camp classes left her with a lower back injury, however, and she began searching for a workout that was low impact, but super effective. After a friend suggested rowing, Helaine initially rejected it as something “my dad did in college,” but following a few workouts on a sexy machine, pairing it with total body sculpting moves off the machine, changed her mind and the concept for CITYROW was born. 

With a mission of delivering a smart, fun, effective workout to all fitness levels, under Knapp’s leadership, CITYROW has grown from one studio in New York City to a national omnichannel fitness brand a top-ranked on-demand global program featuring at-home rowers and a fast-growing digital subscription business alongside 12 open studios and 65 franchises sold nationwide! 

Knapp has yet to row on the water and has been featured as a business leader and a wellness expert on TODAY, Women’s Health, ABC, Harper’s Bazaar, Shape, Well + Good, Vogue, Yahoo! Finance and PEOPLE, among many others.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The journey to CEO and recognizing Plan Z
• How you raise money as a small business
• Finding the need to create a startup 
• Feedback, launching, and the process to get it right
• Growth with sharing and celebration 
• Trust is always key for customer support and service
• Visualization to change the status quo 

Episode References/Links:

• Website
• Instagram

Guest Bio:

HELAINE KNAPP

Founder & CEO of CITYROW

After spending years climbing the corporate ladder, Helaine Knapp left the world of publishing for tech start-up life. Group fitness was her outlet while working hard and taking on the hustle and bustle of New York City. Months of spin and boot camp classes left her with a lower back injury, however, and she began searching for a workout that was low impact, but super effective. After a friend suggested rowing, Helaine initially rejected it as something “my dad did in college,” but following a few workouts on a sexy machine, pairing it with total body sculpting moves off the machine, changed her mind and the concept for CITYROW was born. 

With a mission of delivering a smart, fun, effective workout to all fitness levels, under Knapp’s leadership, CITYROW has grown from one studio in New York City to a national omnichannel fitness brand a top-ranked on-demand global program featuring at-home rowers and a fast-growing digital subscription business alongside 12 open studios and 65 franchises sold nationwide! 

Knapp has yet to row on the water and has been featured as a business leader and a wellness expert on TODAY, Women’s Health, ABC, Harper’s Bazaar, Shape, Well + Good, Vogue, Yahoo! Finance and PEOPLE, among many others.

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• Lesley Logan website
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• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Hey, Be It listener. So I believe so much in paying attention to what strikes your fancy?What gets your attention? What gets your mind thinking? And you know, it's hard for our minds to wander in our our busy lives, like, you know, we have so much to do. And we're always and thank you for listening this podcast on your walk or on your drive. But you know, sometimes we don't even, we don't have a lot of time just to think. And so I was driving with Brad cross country and he was asleep and I was listening to a podcast. And today's guest was on that podcast, and I was obsessed with her. Like, I was like, "Oh, my God, this woman is amazing." Like she is, she is not letting the things that I hear all the time, stop her. So her name is Helaine Knapp. She is the Founder of CITYROW. And she was not a fitness instructor when she started a fitness company. She was also not certified in rowing, which started this fitness company. She was a consumer who was solving her own problem. And I say that because some of you are, are busy working on something trying to make something work. And it's, and it and it might actually not be the thing, the thing might be the other problem that you have that you have to solve. And we get a little hung up sometimes on, I've spent so much time on this thing. I've got to do this thing. This is where, this is where I got my degree in. This is where my resume says I should be. And what if you just followed the thought process of the problem that you have that you've been trying to solve for yourself? Well, I can tell you a little bit because actually Helaine's gonna tell you in this interview, you're gonna hear how she became the Founder of CITYROW, which is not a one boutique shop in New York. It is happening all over the country, in the States, and they have an awesome at Home app. And she's freaking phenomenal and super inspiring. And her Be It action items are useful, unique, probably free, unless you unless you need to go hire someone to discover yourself, but I can't wait for you to hear her voice and get inspired by her and her honesty and what she's doing. And she's eight years in on this business. And it's not easy. It's not easy, but don't stop yourself before you get started. All right, so here she is Helaine Knapp.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right, Be It listeners, I have a very special woman for you, I might say special a lot. But this one, I actually listened to her another podcast while driving through Florida, which is a really long drive. It didn't think it would be that long. But I listened and I was like, immediately DM-ing like going so I'm going past all the things to get a hold of her because I just had to have her on to talk to you about who she is and what she rocks at. So Helaine Knapp, thank you for being here. And taking time to tell everyone what you're doing. So if you don't mind, can you share with them who you are and why you're amazing.

Helaine Knapp 3:36  

Thank you what an intro. I'm very happy to be here and getting to know you and the entire audience. Yeah, so quick and dirty Helaine Knapp, Founder and CEO of a company called CITYROW. We are rowing based fitness, but really just smart fitness for the average consumer who's trying to try to get it all in, cardio, strength, mobility, flexibility, stretch, you get it. How can we get that for you in 20 minutes? And so I ended up starting a rowing company that I'm excited to tell you a little bit more about.

Lesley Logan 4:04  

Yeah, so first of all, I love that because my my my Pilates classes online are 30 minutes. And I'm like finishing is optional everyone, like you can just press play. And if you stop before it's over, you still got your full body workout in the day. So I love that you're like how do we do all of that in 20 minutes, because it is so hard to get have time to do all the things. So a way to solve the problem was a problem that you had or ...

Helaine Knapp 4:26  

Yeah, it was definitely a problem that I had. So I built my career and in the tech world in New York City and so that meant that I was running around like a lunatic, you know, selling, you know, talking to clients. I was, you know, taking in person meetings, I was hustling emails, I was trying to build my network and my career also have time for friends and a social life. And I loved working out. Something I fell in love with after college I was actually much of a bit of a chubbier kid growing up and going out school in the Midwest and did not helped me on my fitness journey. And so it was after college that I just fell in love with leading a healthy lifestyle and lost some of the college weight. And when I started working a lot more and seeing a lot more opportunity to, you know, make a larger career, get some commissioned sales. All of a sudden it was harder for me to leave my desk at the end of the day. And so I became a boutique fitness fanatic. As much as I could afford it. I was taking classes all over New York City, I had a personal trainer, like once or twice a month whenever I could afford it. And it was really kind of through, you know, I unfortunately I got an injury. Taking all these fitness classes and found myself with a really bad lower back injury that forced me to be sidelined.

Oh, I feel, I feel like that is kind of the thing like the injury to sidelines all of us, even those of us who are not famous Olympic athletes, like you're your own athlete, and when you get sidelined and the things that you did to make you feel good, get you you have time to think and wonder a little bit. (Lesley laughs)

Yeah, I mean, well, we're not all Olympic athletes, yet ...

Lesley Logan 5:57  

Yet. We're gonna be on that rowing team. (Lesley laughs)

Helaine Knapp 6:03  

... I think that I we'd be better off with a couple other sports but we can talk about that offline. Yeah, I was, I would sidelined and it was so frustrating because in my mind, I was doing everything right. I I pride myself on being a conscientious human in the world. You know, constantly trying to do my best and trying to do what's right and ended up with wearing a back brace like full on Romy and Michele high school reunion style. (Lesley: Well ...) And yeah, yeah ... Yeah, three herniated discs at 24, which really pissed me off, because I really thought that I was doing everything right. And working out like so much and taking these classes. But you know, the sidelining really forced me to look at what I was doing. And very quickly realized that not all movement was created equal. I don't need to tell you that. (Lesley: Yeah) But yeah, it was just like, it was an eye opening, right. I think you have to kind of go along your fitness maturity to a certain point, when you realize that there's not all movement is created equal. (Lesley: Yeah) This will get there on nutrition faster, right? Not all calories are created equal. (Lesley: Right) But not all movement is created equal. And I think when you're first entering that fitness journey, all movement is good, ... walk, elliptical, do whatever it's going to take. And then when these are adding a lot of volume, and how do I work out 3 4 5 6 7 8 days a week, right? All of a sudden, you have to be a little bit more intentional with how you move your body. And it's really easy to start breaking it down. And so what I uncovered is I was in my 20s and 30s. And I had an injury, and all my friends were injured too. And I was like, "How are we gonna do this guys? (Lesley: Yeah) You only have one body, like we got to be a little bit smarter."

Lesley Logan 7:51  

Yeah, I think I mean, like, I love that you bring that up. Because also, when you're in your 20s, you do have this extra energy to do like, I used to take two hot yoga classes back to back. I can't even go out in the heat in Vegas anymore. I'm like, "Oh that's too much." When I hear people doing hot yoga here. I'm like, "Are you kidding?" So I used to do like two or three hours at the gym because I worked there and I injured myself running. And you know, running is kind of like, it's normal. It's like, it's not really that difficult to go out for a run. But of course, I broke my leg doing it, so (Lesley laughs) but I but I hear you like you there's there's there's an element of needing balance and the proper amount of different types of movement. And then also, like, if you don't have the core foundation to do all the things you're doing and you're young, and you're able to do them, you can start to develop things that like three herniated disc girl at 24. That's way too young.

Helaine Knapp 8:42  

It was it was way too young. And I think it was just, it was so jarring for me because fitness had become a big part of my life. And I was taking all these spin classes and I loved it. I loved it. I loved that heat. I love the energy and then when when the music came on, I think all the discs just flew out of my back because I started aggressively dancing on the bike. And I didn't have the strongest, the strongest core in the world and I was forgoing form, to be able to make sure that I hit every tap back perfectly and combination many other things too. I happen to be really tall, I'm super hyper flexible. You know, everyone's body is different, but it really kind of was eye opening to me and in the notion of like, is there a way that I can get the cardio and the strength training I'm looking for. I always loved personal training, couldn't always afford it that much time but like, loved and understood the power of lifting a weight. (Lesley: Yeah) Not just for weight loss purposes as a former chubby kid that's always goal of mine, but also for his overall health and longevity. Realize how quickly how important it was but for women, especially ...

Lesley Logan 9:47  

Women, especially. Yes, ladies, if you're listening and you're not doing some weight strengthening like body body weight resistance is great, but you got to add, you got to add some heavy weights in there. I promise you it's going to make like when I heard it makes menopause easier as like, throw me the weights. Where are they? Hold on, I've heard this as hell, where's the weight? (Lesley laughs) (Helaine: Yeah) Let's start now.

Helaine Knapp 10:07  

I think we're being realistic in that we're not saying go lift 50 pounds, we're saying like use five, use eight, get yourself up to 10 to 12 to 15 (Lesley: Yeah) over body, upper body, find the right, you know, coach through you with that. And that's a huge part of what we do is also introduce people to proper strength training movements that are part of a hit class. And so I wanted the cardio, obviously, who doesn't love cardio. (Lesley: Yeah) Right? Strength training. And then I wanted three other things that I found were traditionally being being really compromised in a lot of these high intensity classes in New York City. I wanted to have a positive impact on my mobility. (Lesley: Yeah) I wanted to have a positive impact on my flexibility in my stretching. And so to me, I went in with this really fucking high bar ...

Lesley Logan 10:51  

You're like, "I need there has to have all these things." So (Helaine: Yeah) so were you looking, were you like making a list to go look and find that it existed? Or were you thinking, "I'm going to create this is where ..."

Helaine Knapp 11:02  

So it started by me saying, you know, my doctor was like, "You need a low impact workout." And I quickly learned what how important that was. And I was like, man, everyone needs a low impact workout. We just don't know it. And then I was looking for a low impact workout that was also high intensity. And it was actually, it was right there that I got stopped that there was really nothing out there. That was both high intensity, meaning torching calories, really fun, great music, but that was also low impact on my body and my joints that did not exist. (Lesley: Yeah) And then I obviously wanted to layer on a couple other things. So I'm a bit of an overachiever. And so that was ...

Lesley Logan 11:39  

I see you. I'm over here. Welcome to the overachiever club. (Lesley laughs) We've been ... recovering here, we're trying to be in recovery.

Helaine Knapp 11:45  

Yeah, I'm close, Lesley, you might be a couple couple steps ahead of me. But I really it was really that moment where I was like, "Man, there's, there's gotta be some better way." I wonder if I can try and figure it out. Constant problem solver my whole life. And also, I was personally really sidelined. (Lesley: Yeah) I am a person that needs a high intensity workout. It's mental for me as much as it is physical, and walking and doing, you know, light movements on a mat. Like were fantastic and really changed my body and my core. But my mentally like I needed something else. Like (Lesley: Yeah, I understand ...) ... that you're on key. And so I was like, really quickly, I learned that rowing was this high intensity, low impact, not to mention total body thing ...

Lesley Logan 12:32  

Yeah. And I love this rower coz like, first of all, it's I feel like I own, I feel like only recently and maybe when that maybe two who started it that like people actually got got into the rowing machine, because it's so much fun.

Helaine Knapp 12:46  

Well, that's generous, Lesely. I don't think it's very fun. If I'm being honest with you ... (Lesley laughs)

Lesley Logan 12:51  

 I've also never done a 20 minute version of it. I'm like, two minutes, 10 calories, boom.

Helaine Knapp 12:58  

I think that that's really what I saw in it. It wasn't that I loved rowing. I've never rowed a day my whole life. It's that I saw a vision for it to be this kind of anchor within this holistic workout that was gonna give me cardio and strength training and mobility and flexibility all in one. And it could anchor around the rower because it's a power exercise. And so (Lesley: Yeah) CITYROW is actually it's intervals, you're never spending more than a couple of minutes on the rower, we were just using it to very quickly get your heart rate up. And to keep it up throughout all of your strength training and mobility and Pilates style work on the mat (Lesley: Cool) that you're sweating nonstop. And it's very dynamic. So it's that heart pumping cardio that's mixed in with everything else that makes it our secret sauce.

Lesley Logan 13:43  

Yeah, so that's super fun. So remind me how long ago, so you were injured at 24? How long ago did you come with this idea? How long did it take you to get started?

Helaine Knapp 13:53  

So I the idea for CITYROW in 2013. And I launched my first studio in January 2014. I was a child.

Lesley Logan 14:00  

Yeah, this is amazing. So 2013 I feel like was a great year. Everything bad happened to me and all that was so good. So so I love this year. Like just think of all the things that have been born in 2013. So that's really fast. Now, because people always have to know I just went you were not a group, you're not a fitness instructor. You were just a fitness person. You just loved fitness. And you and so you didn't own a fitness studio. You've never owned a fitness studio. So how did you, how did you start something you've never done? (Lesley laughs)

Helaine Knapp 14:35  

Well, I really, really didn't know what the hell to do. But I was very, very confident in personally not having something out there for me. (Lesley: Yeah) And so it really started with this need in the market that I felt personally and that when I took a step back and looked at macro trends in the space, as well as talking to all my friends and realize that they were all injured in their 20s and 30s ... (Lesley: Yeah) still pushing themselves. I was very early on in the notion of like, you really can't beat your body down. (Lesley: Yeah) Like we take care of our one body. (Lesley: Yeah) And I just, I had that confrontation very early on in life. And so I felt the need. So personally, I saw it manifesting within others, even if they hadn't gotten there yet. And so I just started talking about it. And I started socializing the idea and the concept, I like, quickly did a little bit of math, which in retrospect, was so wrong, but I had enough of an idea of like, how it could work. (Lesley: Yeah) And then I took baby steps, I got a piece of advice very early on from a serial entrepreneur, friend of mine, he's like, "Just keep making one decision at a time that moves the company forward." And so it wasn't like people always asked me was there like,"One moment that you've jumped in," and they're actually, I can pinpoint one that was maybe like, you know, signing our first lease that was very jump in. But up until that point, I couldn't do a lot without having to like, risk it all. (Lesley: Yeah) And I did it all while I was working at another company. And so one step at a time, let's get a website up. Let's assess demand, let's get an article, let's be included in like a Well and Good or Roundup or something like let's just start doing it. Let's take conversations and learn. And then eventually, it was time to sign a lease. And that took me you know, months and months and months and months. But one small decision at a time is really how, how I did it.

Lesley Logan 16:33  

Thank you for sharing that because I do think that people go , "Okay, now I have to sign the lease." And they don't do the work beforehand. And that work beforehand, really does help you cultivate what it's going to become. And also try out things like it's like dating, you gotta like before you get married and sign the lease, you got to like, date it around and see how people are going to put it out there and see people ask questions, what questions are they asking, you know, like, all of that stuff is really important. So I do, I do love it. And also that I agree, like, I look back at some how the companies we started happened. And there was very little like grand hurrah. (Lesley laughs) (Helaine: Yeah) I think there (Helaine: Yeah) was one grand hurrah when we moved to Vegas, we are like, "This is huge. This is a big leap." But but for us, it was just like doing one thing at a time. And I always had worked a different job and then made my side hustle the thing. And then what became the hustle that I could like, let go of something. So so you've been doing this since 2014. It's almost 10 years or eight years in, and you have one location, two locations. How it has grown out since then?

Helaine Knapp 17:37  

Oh, yeah. So we took a couple paths. I'll answer that in a couple of different ways. But in 2016 2017, you know, after we launched our first location opened a couple more, we were kind of sitting there punching far above our weight class in terms of brand and who we were in the market. And we're, we're rowing for the general fitness population. That's part of a more holistic workout. So we we happen to hook on the rowing train, but really, we're just a smart fitness (Lesley: Yeah) solution. And our mission has always been how can we go and be available to as many people as humanly possible. We're very, very female focused. So as mentioned, we're three women that started the business, we only bring on female ambassadors and celebrities. (Lesley: Love this) But we're also built for the female body, which is high, wildly different than the male body. (Lesley: Yeah) I think, I think I'm the only female founder in this connected fitness world, which is how we built this, which is insane. But hey, women's bodies, like we need some different stuff. So, we ...

Lesley Logan 18:32  

Yeah, I agree. I don't and it's like, I was listening to a podcast where a guy was telling women about different things. And I'm like, "Why are we taking advice from a dude?" No offense, he's very smart. But like, "Ladies, we need to know about how to train for our bodies, and we need to be the experts on it, not someone else."

Helaine Knapp 18:50  

It's, it's crazy. And listen, like I think as as a, as a female founder, entrepreneur, someone who's raised a lot of money. We're constantly navigating in a world that wasn't built for us. But we are making small changes every day, to try and make the world work for us or to try and create a new world. That's how I like to think about it. (Lesley: I love that. Yeah) So we stepped back in 2017. I was like, "Where do I want to grow the business?" There's a lot of cool things happening, I could raise a lot of money and open more corporate locations, I could do a franchise model. Also, this digital thing is really interesting to me. And so when I looked at what I wanted to do with the business, I knew I wanted to grow our retail footprint and open more locations. The plan here was never to do just a couple. I come from the tech startup world. So to me, I was like, we're on the fucking train. And we're gonna go, and I really, really liked what I saw in the early days of digital fitness. And that meant that really numbers of the Peloton and some cool things that I was seeing there. And you also have to take a step back and say, "What are we uniquely positioned to win at? Where do we have an unfair advantage?" And I knew that for us that was going to be technology because my co founder and I met at a tech company. I love building technology. I also love monthly and annual recurring revenue. Not to mention, I knew that our modality of this growing hit class with strength training work was going to translate incredibly well into the ad home setting where the hypothesis was that we're going to have a much shorter attention span. (Lesley: Yeah) And we can jam our Fab Five into a 20 minute workout. This is going to be perfect for the home consumer because nobody wants to go and do an hour long workout at home, at least I don't and I am the consumer. I've never taught a class. I'm just the consumer.

Lesley Logan 20:39  

But see I, you, I, you keep saying this. And I think it's really important for people to listen to this part, you're solving your problem, like everything you've done is solving your problem. And that is, you know, that is really the key. I think people think they're trying to solve a problem for like, that's what they see out like maybe think about or what they perceive. But it's like, actually, if you to solve your own problem, if you can create that thing. You can there's people out there, you're not the only one. So I think it's really cool and I agree. I do one yoga class a week online at home, and it is live, which is the only reason I could show up because I'm like, "This is an hour. (Lesley laughs) I, hold on, why are we savasana early? When is when is that happening? (Lesley laughs)

Helaine Knapp 21:23  

I'm with you, we're coming from the same plot. And like, to your point, we are not all that special, right? There's a lot of people just like us that have similar feelings and needs and voids in their life. So that's very much how I built the business. And so while I saw this early trend in digital, and I knew we wanted to get there early, and we did, we launched our first rower. But our secret sauce is really our content in our app. And so at our core, we're a content creator. And so we have, we have on demand and live classes. (Lesley: Cool) Now we have 15 different class types circling around the rower because it's still a vehicle for this perfect tech class, but also complimentary workouts, whether it's yoga, Pilates, Bootcamp, more all rowing classes, because once you get into it, you kind of want to see what you can do on that thing. And it's really really really good hard ...

Lesley Logan 22:12  

I love putting my hands on the floor feet on the on the seat and just like I there's something about that. I feel like it's gonna help me do a handstand someday, like a gymnast, I'm just going to pop up into it. I know, it's probably not ...

Helaine Knapp 22:21  

You definitely could. I'm not sure that's how the rubber should be used Lesley. But we can talk about that offline. (Lesley laughs)

Lesley Logan 22:26  

Good point. Good point. Good point. So ... (Helaine: Im' so excited ...) So that's, so that's really cool. So you did that in 2017. So you're like, well ahead of like, people actually starting to use, you know, at home equipment as a thing like before the pandemic that is what I mean.

Helaine Knapp 22:42  

Yep, so we were very much ahead of the curve. And so we had our first row, we're in market with our iOS and Android app going into the pandemic. We also though in 2017, knew that we wanted to expand our physical studio footprint, and so partnered with a franchise development company, and we sold about 65 units across the country very quickly. And we had about eight or nine of those open, just open heading into COVID and so (Lesley: Wow) truly getting on this omni channel meet the customer where they are ethos into who we are. And so obviously, past two years have been super up and down in both areas of the business but the whole category is continuing to grow and that's why our team, our investors are all pretty bullish on is that studios are coming back in a meaningful way and people are hungry huge for variances, in a good way.

Lesley Logan 23:33  

Yeah, it's ... it's insane. Sorry to cut you off. But like, because I coach so many instructors, the... obviously with the pandemic so many teachers went online, and now that things are opening up and like, I promise you, it is so much easier to build a brick and mortar right now. Because people are really, the people who loved in person fitness are hungry for it and they're showing up and they're and because they saw what happened to to in two years of not being able to do it they're like not missing. It is really crazy and insane. So I'm, so have you been able to open up new ones since the pandemic or is it just the ones that you had signed on before? How's that going?

Helaine Knapp 24:13  

Combination so, you know, some of them didn't make it through and really hard and challenging and I definitely shed a couple tears as these are people that I was really excited to build a business with. We also opened a couple, so for instance our Richmond Virginia franchisee opened her second location, Plainview opened during, Del Mar, California opened during the pandemic. And we're going to continue to open a lot more stores over the coming years. And for us right now it's how do we, how do we continue to build back up those studios in that community and in a meaningful way, and then figure out where we want to go next. All the while really integrating our digital community with that of be in person because a digital community is fantastic. But the second that you can go and touch and feel something in the flesh, you're gonna have a much deeper and real connection to that. (Lesley: Yeah) And I, I'm, I'm the Meta Verse is here ... read for whoever's excited about that as am I in some ways, but there's, there's nothing that's ever going to replicate. Right? Connected at Home Fitness was built because people need to figure out how to get the days 4 or 5 6 7 8 (Lesley: Yeah) into their week, or they physically could not get to the studio. (Lesley: Yeah) Right? But for most of the average consumer, they are not going to motivate themselves and push themselves as hard at home as they will in a room full of other people. Now, different psyches do better, I actually think that men probably do a lot better at home, just the way that their brains work than women. We love being around other people, right? We're motivated by other people. (Lesley: Yeah) And we're a little bit competitive. (Lesley: Yeah) Like, I'm the fucking owner of this company, I have a rower sitting right next to me, and I have never hit a low split time that I could possibly get in the studio. (Lesley laughs) ... we're human in the studio ...

Lesley Logan 26:01  

I hear you on that. Because, well, you know, I bought weights during the pandemic. And I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna work myself out. I got some programs. I'm doing some online stuff." And I went like, "Oh, the dogs need breakfast. Oh, this," you know, like, all of are so many distractions. So I do much better. It with a, like, they're like I'm showing up at a time for something, even if it's at home, but in person is still one of my favorite ways to work out with group classes. It's just wait, it feels like a group class, because that's what it is. So I have, so your I mean, like, it's crazy, you're 24 are like, "Okay, I'm gonna start this thing. It's amazing." And I love the confidence that a young 20 something has, so I can understand how you could be the CEO of a company, or something you've never done before. But now with there's so many experiences, you've had to work this business through that no one had to, no one had to do a pandemic before. So that's something different. And then also to go from like, one location to like, all these extra locations, all these new locations and an app. How, what is it, how do you like, talk to your, talk to yourself, and like becoming this next thing, running a company of something that you haven't done yet? Do you know what I mean?

Helaine Knapp 26:31  

So really started in like, before I even opened the first location, or even had the idea. And it all comes back to self awareness, and knowing what you are good at, but more importantly, knowing what you're not good at. And if there's like one superpower that I have that, you know, I was finally starting to realize in my mid 20s, that I'm a really, really, really good problem solver and navigator. And layer that in with an ability to network and find the right person to ask for help. That I just was ready to bet on myself, because I did not know what was going to be around the corner. But I knew that I could probably figure it out. Right. And that came from personal experience. It came from feedback that I got, you know, positive feedback from bosses and mentors throughout the years. And so I was ready to better myself and jump in. Right? You never know how cold the water is going to be or what's going to be lurking below. But I knew that I was going to figure out how to navigate it. And so I kind of always come back to that notion. And now that I've been doing this for eight years, man have I navigated through some crap. And stuff that like is just mind blowing, like all of our credit cards were shut off. We've run out of money many times, like every problem you can possibly imagine from legal to personnel, we've been through it. And so now it's a combination of that early confidence and betting on myself to be able to navigate it. But two, I yeah, I pull rabbits out of the hat. I've done it, I figured it out. Like this is just one more. This is just one more, we have a bigger team and there's more people behind us. And so it's constantly leaning on that. But the one piece of advice I would say would be not to pretend to be who you're not. And to be very, very aware of where your strengths are and make sure that that matches to whatever the initiatives are that you want to embark on. And if you're not then just be real about that. This is not for everyone.

Lesley Logan 29:09  

Oh, that is so good. That is I love that so much. I it's it's something I think a lot of us don't realize that we can bet on ourselves. I think, do you know what I mean? Like I think it's not an option people actually realize is probably the best bet you can make because another guest on who is like you've survived every bad thing that's ever happened to you if you're listening to this, like you didn't die. (Helaine: Ah) You have access to the internet and you're hearing a podcast like you've survived all of it. And so, so I really thank you for, thank you for saying that because I think anyone who already bet on themselves just being reminded that of that, too is like that is a that is a magic tool. And you're right we all have strengths and some of our strengths are better suited for different roles in our own business you know. Um, I last August, oh, no. Yeah. No, oh my gosh, it's been almost two years. In August of 2020, I hired a coach. She's amazing strategist, she's actually out in your area. And she, she does strategy work for like trillion dollar companies and somehow, like through the network of life, like she loved us. And she's like, "Yeah, let's do a session." And I was like, "Okay, great. I'm not a trillion dollar company yet, but I appreciate you. We're gonna work with you." (Helaine: Yeah) And she this whole thing. And she's like, "I don't know why you're the CEO because you're, you're not." (Lesley laughs) And I said, "I am not. (Helaine: Oh) I'm not the CEO of my company. I am the Visionary Officer of my company." Like, I know where we're going. And I know, I believe I can get us there. I like when you say rabbits, that I'm an ideas machine, problem comes up. I'm like, we just need to like, what out, what do we get what's possible right now. And so my husband became the CEO, because he's a natural at it. He's so good at it. And when you when we switch those roles, and then I hired people around me, who actually had strengths that were my weaknesses, it's, you're unstoppable. And so you then you can just live in your strengths. And it's easier to bet on yourself everyday. Because you're not constantly living in the parts of you that are like, not not good at that. So we're gonna make yourself feel not good.

Helaine Knapp 31:16  

Yeah, and I think so many of us want to be someone that we're not, or at least we start that way, right, as, as young young women trying to be someone else. But I think the most important thing you can do for yourself and your happiness and your career is to be like, "What am I really good at?" And I learned a great example of this from one of my first bosses when I was working at Conde Nast W magazine, and I was a, you know, $24,000 a year sales assistant. (Lesley: Somebody living in New York) ... and not not well, like, it was like grad school in some ways. But I remember working for this badass badass sales woman. And I remember saying to her, like, "Kim, like, don't you want to be the associate publisher? Like, don't you want to be the publisher and run everything?" And she's like, "No, I am really good at this. I make a great living. And I wouldn't be a good manager." And it was really, really, really eye opening, because I had been going on this notion that you got to keep climbing. But I've seen that play over many times in my career. And people are happier when they're in the right seat. And not everyone's happy, and they don't see it all the time. But make sure you're putting yourself in the right seat.

Lesley Logan 32:29  

So beautiful. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna listen to that part over and over. Alright, Helaine, where do people find you, row with you, you got CITYROW's sounds like all over and coming up all over. So how can they get more information?

Helaine Knapp 32:42  

I'm a big Instagram fan. So highly recommend just find us on Instagram, at @cityrow c i ty r o w, get to our website, cityrow.com or go to cityrow.com or find me just Helaine Knapp on, I would say my two favorite social networks are Instagram, Instagram and LinkedIn.

Lesley Logan 33:02  

Oh, amazing. Good for you on the LinkedIn. I am that's a strength. That's a seat that I'm not in. (Lesley laughs) I have been (Helaine: ... where) out, it's there. And I'm like, "You know, if someone really wants to get a hold of me, I think that they'll go on my website." (Lesley laughs) So okay, you are a wealth of knowledge. Be It Till You See It action item, so bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted things, people can do to, you know, be it till you see it, be in the seat there that is meant for them.

Helaine Knapp 33:33  

I want to get to know yourself, right. And that means something different for everyone, whether you're going to journal and maybe bring in a mirror coach at some capacity, but get to know yourself a little bit more and surround yourself with people that are on that same journey or maybe a little bit further ahead of you that can help be a support system on that. And then when you're ready, just like jump in, jump in, but be aware that it's not rainbows and butterflies. And so if you can jump in and know that the water is really cold, but also have the confidence that you're going to be able to figure it out. Then you're ready but don't go in thinking this is going to be a breeze at any point you don't even know what's gonna happen yet ...

Lesley Logan 34:17  

Truer words have never been spoken like in my daily life. (Lesley laughs) (Helaine: Yeah) So oh my gosh, Helaine, I'm so grateful for this time. Thank you for letting me snag you and you're amazingness for our listeners. I hope to be in New York soon and track you down so we can actually meet in person but I just feel like yes, woven from the same cloth and lots more to do in this world. So thank you for being here. Everyone listening how you want to use these tips this information in your life, screenshot this, tag @cityrow, tag @helaineknapp and the @be_it_pod so we can see what your takeaways are. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It a podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Flying Media'.

Brad Crowell 35:30  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 35:41  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 35:45  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 35:54  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 36:06  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Whoohoo! Happy 100 episodes. A huge thank you to each Be It listener! This special episode holds bold moments, check ins from past podcast guests, and ways to use visualization to get to your goals. 

Download the PP version of Pocket Suite here

Click Here if you want free webinar for scheduling tips and how to rule your calendar

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• A thank you to 100 episodes with YOU, our listener
• Pretty women (bold) moments 
• Solving peoples problems with what comes naturally to you
• How do you want to feel when you hit your goals? 
• Who do you want to be surrounded with and interacting with?
• Imagine 2 people you want to meet
• Visualize it, it can happen

Episode References/Links:

• Atomic Habits by James Clear
• Profitable Pilates Assistant free trail
• Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the prosperous convo I have with Chinwe Onyeagoro in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that episode, what are you doing? She's amazing. (Brad: Yeah) Go listen to that. (Brad: You have to listen to it.) Then come back and join us or, you know, listen to this one, then listen to that one. You know, here's the deal guys in those ounces the beginning, I have four dogs in this tiny room with me. Brad is in Cambodia. There (Brad: Hello Cambodia) are concrete workers, there are concrete workers where he is. And we also live in a village someone could end up having a wedding and one of these dogs could ...

Brad Crowell 1:26  

I'm sure we'll hear the the pagoda with the monks chanting. (Lesley: Yeah) They just do it all day long.

Lesley Logan 1:32  

Currently Milo was trying to get underneath the dog bed even more. (Lesley laughs) And so we'll just see how it goes, everyone. We'll see how it goes. But here we are the 100th episode and we still ...

Brad Crowell 1:43  

Happy 100!

Lesley Logan 1:43  

We are hundred! (Lesley laughs)

Amy Ledin 1:49  

Hey, this is Amy Ledin from episode 5, just checking back with you Be It listeners. And while I would love to share something new that I'm doing just as I work toward that being it till you see it, it's actually the same thing. I'm doing the daily practices, because we know how to start sexy. But this is where we really see the change, the daily visualization and just honestly just keeping my promises.

Megan Linney 2:14  

Hey there Be It Till You See It listeners. This is Megan Linney from episode 63. I just wanted to check in and see if everyone's doing with their curiosity. I'm still out here being curious, looking around the corners, opening up my mind and my heart, but the things that are coming my way and I'm wondering if you are too. And if you aren't just a gentle reminder to stay curious because that's were all the satisfaction is. So good luck, and if you haven't checked out the episode 63 where Lesley and I get down about what motivates us and sometimes just proving the haters wrong is enough to get you going. So I hope you're well, and I hope you are continuing to go for yours. Thanks.

Lesley Logan 2:56  

Oh my God, I can't even believe it. I can't believe, I can't believe we did 100 episodes.

Brad Crowell 3:02  

I I think that we wouldn't be doing 100 episodes if we weren't getting a response from people about the pod. So ... (Lesley: That's true. I definitely way think we ...) for everything for everyone. Yeah, for everyone who has left us a review on Apple, or commented on a YouTube video or DMed us on Instagram. Seriously, thank you so much. We, I mean, I love doing this because I you know, because it's fun. But, you know, there comes a point where you choose, is this a really amazing hobby? Or is this something that we're actually gonna keep doing? Because it's it's, you know, touching people's lives and having an impact. And we wouldn't be doing this without you. So (Lesley: Yeah) thank you for listening. It's really amazing.

Lesley Logan 3:46  

Thank you for listening. And thank you for sharing and thank you for, well, all the things I'm like I'm really excited about also all the guests we've had that means 50 guests.

Brad Crowell 3:57  

50 guests. Yeah, and they've been some fantastic guests too. I mean, every single convo had some epic things to take away from it.

Lesley Logan 4:04  

I know. I know. I learned something new all the time. And it's been really fun. And I mean, I happen to know the future and there's some epic guests coming to ... episode which I'm also excited to that. (Lesley and Brad laughs)

Brad Crowell 4:16  

Are you gonna tell me how you how you know the future. That's amazing.

Lesley Logan 4:20  

I know what's been really you know, one of the most hilarious things is, I have recorded recaps with Clare (Brad: Yeah) while you've been in Cambodia thinking you would be back from Cambodia for us to record this episode together. (Brad: Yeah) And so no, you're not back. But you will (Brad" I'll back) be back when this comes out. Fingers crossed, all things wheeling you by the time this episode lands in people's ears you will be back in the state.

Brad Crowell 4:49  

And and COVID free.

Lesley Logan 4:51  

Yeah, yeah. So everyone ...

Brad Crowell 4:53  

Which is why, which is why I'm not back. Suprise announcement! (Lesley and Brad laughs)

Lesley Logan 4:59  

Surprise! Brad, if you are not watching on YouTube. Brad is in our property in Cambodia. You know, I think we just ...

Brad Crowell 5:04  

Yeah, in fact ... You tell that, I'll share a little visual for anybody who's here.

Lesley Logan 5:10  

For anyone watching YouTube. I actually think you just really wanted to see SOCOM when because basically while he was going to be in Cambodia with my father, our property manager was going to be on her own holiday for the new year, and they're (Brad: Yeah) literally gonna miss each other. And now I'm just thinking that you're like, "You know what? No, really. SOCOM and I really did want to like have an in person meeting." (Lesley and Brad laughs)

Brad Crowell 5:32  

Well, if you're watching on YouTube, you should check it out. If you're not, this is our building. (Lesley: Yeah, it's so pretty.) It's 12 12 bedrooms, there are 12 individual apartments. And then we have built this fantastic patio here a couple years back to practice Pilates on. And if you host yoga retreats, you can take our space. But the reason that we're here this past three weeks is because we've been doing construction, you can see this, this epic pile of sand and rock. We've been doing all of the the wall back there is now nice and smooth. It looks so beautiful. (Lesley: And the wall looks amazing.) This is the team in fact. (Lesley: Yeah) And you're seeing everybody on lunch break right now, they this is the concrete team. (Lesley: For those of you ...) They did our patio.

Lesley Logan 6:14  

listening, (Brad: our driveway) just picture, just picture the jungle, and then a beautiful, beautiful mansion with 12 bedrooms. (Lesley laughs) (Brad: Yeah pretty much.) It really is. It's it's really crazy. So it's amazing. I am still so jealous. I'm not there. Had I been there? I would have left you there. Because ...

Brad Crowell 6:38  

Yeah, we weren't planning on staying as long as we currently are staying. But basically, we'll be back. We will be back next week. And I'm actually looking forward to being home.

Lesley Logan 6:50  

Next week is basically, hopefully two weeks before you this gets to your ears so that we're like in the future and (Brad: Yeah) past the same time. We're in two places at once. Anyways, back to the 100th episode. Seriously, when I told Brad, I wanted to do this, I wanted to this years ago. And it was never like the right time. It was never the right time. And then I finally (Brad: This making the pod.) the pod. And we're doing it. And Brad said, "Yes, because it won't involve me." And it has evolved him so much. (Brad and Lesley laughs)

Brad Crowell 7:24  

I didn't forget about that. That's true.

Lesley Logan 7:26  

And I just want to say (Brad: Yeah it's a...) I want to say this thing because it's been on my mind, I posted on one of my Instagram accounts for my business coaching. Everything looks every job looks easy when you're not the one doing it. And this podcast, Brad said it like it would just be a fun hobby. It is hobby. Sure. This is not thing that I would do as a hobby, I would macro may as a hobby, I'll be really honest. But this has been really rewarding in a lot of ways. A) I truly love sharing all these different guests with you and getting their message out because they are doing amazing, incredible things in this world. And they're so so inspiring. But also hearing from you all, what what BE IT actions you've taken, which ones have worked for you. It's really truly beautiful and amazing. And an action is such an important thing for me. So I just want to say, I know Brad already said it, but I have to say thank you, let's keep it going. This is 100 of the first 100 of hopefully another 1000 like this is the thing that we're gonna do forever. I mean it but one thing is really true. The BE IT action items are really important to me, because action is what really does change things. You can you can decide in a moment to change your mind. But you've got to take action for that to to be cemented. And so I really hope you've been listening to all the BE IT action items. And even if just want to go to episodes and just listen last few minutes. That's where they are. Yeah, but at the end (Brad: Yeah) end of the day, for a reason. And because of the 100th episode, we reached out to our past guests, we said, "Hey, what are you doing to be it till you see it right now?" And so you're gonna hear instead of ads throughout the episode, you're gonna hear from several of our amazing guests, and I highly recommend you also, if you're not already follow us on the @be_it_pod because we have a few of those BE IT action, the updated BE IT action items in in that Instagram account, which some of them were just really long. We wanted to make sure you heard them. So there'll be there plus, plus stay to the end. We got a big announcement. Okay. (Brad: Oh) I know we do. This, Brad does it really matter what it is?

Brad Crowell 9:35  

I have no idea what it is.

Lesley Logan 9:36  

I know. So fun. I'll tell you later. I'll tell all of you. (Brad: Okay) Okay. But Brad, did we have a bold moment?

Brad Crowell 9:45  

Yeah, so usually we have a listener question but this today we were very excited to swap it out. Today we have a bold moment and (Lesley: Yeah) Les, did you want to read it though?

Lesley Logan 10:00  

I'm gonna read it. I'm gonna read it. (Brad: Okay) I know. (Brad: Yeah, go ahead. Okay.) All right. So we have one of our listeners posted this inside of one of the groups that we have. And I asked her if I could share it. So Jen, thank you so much. Here's what it is. It'sit is awesome. This is Jen's words - I was offered a new job yesterday. Back on January 14, I had a, 'I need a moment' post (that's something we have in our group, you can post 'I need a moment'). It became really clear that my time at my current job was done. It seemed like everything was a fight. I was frustrated and frankly betrayed because the words were not matching the actions at my organization. So, I took the time to reflect. What was really going on? And, at the end of the day, I realized that was about alignment. So, I had some choices. I heard LL's voice in my head, focus what I on what I can do. In the midst of the chaos and frustration and closed doors, I looked for a way. As Brad said on a recent Be It podcast, "Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional." (that may not be an exact quote, but it's close.) I think it's pretty close. I ...

Brad Crowell 10:13  

It's pretty close. And I'm so grateful for being attributed that but I was quoting our guests. So yeah

Lesley Logan 11:10  

I know. Yeah, yeah. (Brad: Thank you.) Thank you. Maybe they maybe she just listened to the recaps?

Brad Crowell 11:19  

That's true. Maybe she just listened to the recaps.

Lesley Logan 11:21  

Yeah, okay. I saw my pain as information. It was something that was happening for me (also another LL golden nugget). Well what? So, I reached out to my network. The people I know. And, from two connections, I got the opportunity to interview for two roles. And, one result resulted in a job offer. That is the freakin best. That is better than any Vegas archery shot that people so you have from two, she had two interview with boom job offer. Like come on. (Brad: Yeah) So, LL my 'Pretty Woman' moment is coming this week. Oh, okay, pause. For everyone who doesn't know Pretty Woman is one of my favorite movies of all time. Okay. And for for serious, I literally watched that movie every single day for an entire summer. And even in 2007 when I moved to LA and I had still a TV with VHS I'd put in Pretty Woman and fall asleep every night. So her Pretty Woman moment, if you don't know, if you lived under a rock, did not watch movies in the 90s. Here's what's about to happen. She's gonna go in and go into the store and no one's going to help her right. And because that's what happened. And then she comes ...

Brad Crowell 12:32  

Because there's an assumption that she is poor.

Lesley Logan 12:35  

Yes, because there's an assumption she's poor, because she's dressed in her hooker outfit. It's an amazing outfit that people would probably be wearing to Coachella right now, to be honest. But anyway, so then she comes back the next day, and she's dressed super conservative with the nice hat and the $1,000 on her outfit. And she goes, "Do you work here? I was here yesterday, you wouldn't help me. Big mistake. Huge. I have to go shopping now." So this is the Pretty Woman moment she's talking about. I just had to set the stage in case maybe you forgot that amazing scene. So my 'Pretty Woman' moment is coming this week. I will submit my resignation to the guy who said that I wasn't 'Director-level' yet. And, tell him that I've been hired at a Fortune 500 company as a Senior Director. Boom!

Brad Crowell 13:23  

Oh yeah. (Lesley: Big mistake. Huge ...) Big mistake.

Lesley Logan 13:28  

And, to be clear, while I feel really good about this change, I'm not going to this meeting with malice, or 'I told you so' attitude, (she's better human than I). I'm walking from a forking from a place of grounded. (Brad: I'm working.) And working from a place of grounded, grateful acceleration. Obviously, it just wasn't a good fit anymore for either of us. So it's time. Whoa, Jen, bold moment, y'all. So you can (Brad: amazing) put questions to us. Or you can send in your bold moments where you've taken action, and you've done your thing. This is amazing. I read this I was like crying.

Brad Crowell 14:02  

Yeah. We can't wait to celebrate you. I mean, this is this is (Lesley: We're celebrating) really fantastic. I mean, the the the she was feeling so frustrated in this in this situation. And instead of continuing to feel frustrated about it, she decided to take action. And she didn't even really know what action to take. So she started asking her friends and her friends were the ones that said, "Well, you should just interview here, you should interview there. I know this person or whatever." So you know, it's amazing when you talk about it, when you you know bring other people into it. You don't dwell on it only by yourself and hide it instead talk about it, sharing it. And look what happened. So that's so amazing. I can't wait to follow up with Jen in a couple months to see how things are going for her.

Lesley Logan 14:47  

I know oh my gosh. Oh my God. I can't wait to hear out went. Anyways, of course I want to know how it went when she's like, "Big mistake. Huge. I'm a director now." Peace out yo. (Lesley and Brad laughs) We're ... mother. All right, let's talk about Chinwe.

Brad Crowell 15:03  

All right. Now let's talk about Chinwe Onyeagoro. Even as a young girl creating lemonade stands, Chinwe Onyeagoro was always thinking about franchising and creating more from a Fortune 500 Strategist to co-founding the PocketSuite app, Chinwe works with small businesses, to help them succeed and simplify their companies. And I also want to just throw in there while she was helping small businesses, and before she started, PocketSuite, she was helping small businesses raise money, and she raised like $150 million for small businesses. So that is, I don't even know how that works. That's amazing. I think that's like, obviously a jaw dropping number she very, you know, she's, she's, she's humble. So she very quickly brushed over that fact. But I wanted to just call that out. You know, she, she has seen, you know, dozens and dozens, maybe who knows hundreds of business models, as she was evaluating and raising money for these companies. And what a perspective to have when then going out and deciding what she wanted to create herself?

Lesley Logan 16:16  

Well, I think like, that's kind of how a lot of things are created, though, right? So she saw a problem. She's like, "Oh, these people, these small businesses need this money because of this." Like it's consistent, right. And so, I think a lot of people forget, and we've talked about it before on podcast, but sometimes, episodes is like, you sit, something that comes easy to you is actually really hard for a lot of people. And (Brad: Yeah) and so you might actually have the best way of braiding your hair. And you might just be like, "Whatever, I'm just braiding my hair." But you actually could probably have a YouTube channel, he's probably people like me, who are trying to figure out how to braid this name. But you know, like, it comes so easy for you. And, and you can actually solve people's problems with that. And so she was saying, like, "Oh, I could keep raising this money, but I'm not solving the problem." And so she could have kept doing that probably would have been easier. Maybe not ...

Brad Crowell 17:14  

Yeah, I mean, I know she's mentioned that I think that was part of it, too, you know. So she, she, after being in it with all those companies and helping them raise $150 million, you know, across all these different companies. She basically said, "You know, I, I noticed that, the it was a recurring problem that people raising funds, because they weren't collecting the money up front." Right. (Lesley: Yeah) And she said, "This doesn't make sense to me. What if we just help them collect the money upfront, then they won't even need to go raise the money?" (Lesley: Yeah) Right. And so,

Lesley Logan 17:50  

So like let me put myself I have a job, I putting myself into a new job. (Brad and Lesley laughs)

Brad Crowell 17:56  

Basically, and, you know, so, but, but I think that's amazing. I'm gonna I'm obviously jumping in and make my talking point first here. (Lesley: Okay) But she she, you know ...

Lesley Logan 18:08  

For 100th let's just switch it up ...

Brad Crowell 18:09  

We're switching it up. Yeah. Yeah. She, she, she decided to go to the root of the problem, (Lesley: Yeah) you know, and even though that wasn't her job, but she saw a need, and that's what prompted, you know, the thought process of, well, how can we actually get them, you know, in a better position them meaning her clients, the companies who she was raising money for? How can we get them in a better position, so they wouldn't even have to take on this loan or this debt or whatever. And, and that kind of started the gears going. And then because of the people that she knew she contacted someone who was a developer and they partnered up.

Lesley Logan 18:11  

Yeah. Well, and so first of all, Chinwe I can't wait to my new best friend. I wish to live closer. Although they did say they need to on site, they need to off site retreat.

Brad Crowell 19:02  

Yeah, they need and I'm excited. They're coming to Vegas ... 

Lesley Logan 19:03  

Guess what? I actually run retreats here. I know how to do that. Come any time, I'll host. But, you know, it's really funny, because when we, when we decided like, "Hey, we're gonna we're gonna work with them. And we're gonna have our our Profitable Pilates edition of what they do." I was like, "Yeah, (Brad: Yeah) I love her. I love what they do. This is great." And then it was like, and then you get her to go along with it. It's like, wow, she's like, he's like, this amazing, like, I already knew is like, this is a great product. I'm really excited about it. And then we have heard I'm like, well, hey, now, my new best friend Chinwe. I'm not a stalker or anything, don't worry. (Lesley laughs)

Brad Crowell 19:44  

Well, it's also you know, like everybody that we've connected with on her team is very kind. You know, and I think that's a direct reflection of her and who she is, and I love that I think that's amazing.

Lesley Logan 19:58  

Yeah, so um, yeah, I love, I love it what she, I love it what she loved it. That was great. I loved the visualize, to visualize to change your status quo, how she said, how you feel about what you're doing right now, just by visualizing what you want to be feeling like when you hit your goals, who do you want to be surrounded by and interacting with? And what do you want to be like, and this is gonna go into, you know, some of her BE IT action items, of course. But I actually think it's really easy to like to focus on what you don't like about what's happening in your status quo. I currently, as we're about to hit record is like, I don't like that you're still in Cambodia. And I'm here with four dogs. One of which farts. In this little room. (Brad and Lesley laughs) It's true. But like, if you can vis... if you take us just a second to visualize, like, how could this be different? How could this be different? You, you could end up like solving a problem for yourself that solves a problem for everybody, or you could like that could be their next thing. Or you could actually shift your mindset, which makes you change the action that you're about to take right now. You know, there's so many different things you could do, this length that you just mentioned, is actually a super powerful thing. Because we just we often just focus on we don't like what's happening. But if you just take the moment going, how do I really want this moment to be going, you might be able to figure out the next step you need to be taken in your day. So you know, I've I just really thought that was beautiful. And I think that's something we can easily think about. And it's something you can do. And maybe you can't change it exactly the way you visualize it. Like I would really love to be back at the pool in Palm Springs. That was really lovely. But what can I do instead, like, you know, how could this moment be a little bit different? I think that that actually gives you a lot of options and possibility to take action and action is the antidote to fear. And it brings clarity. Boom.

Brad Crowell 21:59  

Well, I was gonna say to be visualizing it is like hand in hand with be it till you see it. Right? (Lesley: Yeah) You know, you're you're actually imagining what it's going to be like, or what it could be like, right, and then you're gonna go, that will help you then come up with the action steps you need to go put that into place. It's exactly like what Chinwe did when she was working with those companies. You know, she said, "Well, what if what if we could get to the root of the problem, which is they're not collecting the money upfront? Huh. What would that be like? What can how can we help them do that?" She's visualizing it. Right? And then I was like, "Alright, well, what if we work backwards from let's give them the tools they need to go collect the money up front?" And that's when prompted the actual actions.

Lesley Logan 22:45  

Yeah, yeah. (Brad: Yeah) You know, I also really loved we all said, we neither of us brought this up. But I just want to bring it up really quickly, because in case you missed it, all the features that they have now that we have on our edition with all of my coaching. (Brad: Oh, yeah.) Just dropping that in there. If you're in the US, get yourself on the free trial. It's in the show notes. Okay, that's my plug. Um, but they didn't start off with that. And I think a lot of people get hung up on like, the finished product. You (Brad: Right) get hung up on like, we want we want the finished product. That is overwhelming. James Clear, who's the author of Atomic Habits. He talks about, like people like, sometimes we don't know how to make it small enough. And BJ Fogg, as you know, who I love is like you have a really small, James Clear is like some people like, "Oh, I want to run a marathon. So I'll start with 15 minutes." That is might not be small enough, right? You might have to like in Tiny Habits, you might have to just put your frickin shoes on. And so (Brad: Yeah) they didn't start off with 33 features 42 features they started off with 33.

Brad Crowell 23:50  

33. Yeah. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah, exactly.

Lesley Logan 23:54  

And so and so I just, I really like I love that you're a big dreamer. I love it. dream as big as you want. But you have to you have to you have to understand that it's absolutely 100%. The keys to the kingdom is starting off with the smallest version of your dream. So you can get the feedback, so you can try it on, so you can actually learn some things everybody's waiting till they have the perfect thing done everything done. Dies, dies, I's dotted T's crossed. Wow. I just like put all three (Brad: Those I's dotted) of those in one word together. But really the reality is like we we've tried that before you cannot it doesn't work, it just so you know doesn't work. Listen to people make it small. Start with small thing get going and get the action and clarity out of it. So I anyways obsessed with Chinwe. (Brad: Yeah) Thank you bestfriend. (Brad: amazing) (Lesley laughs)

Erika Quest 24:52  

Hey, this is Erika Quest from episode number 15. I'm checking back in with you, Be It listeners. I am still totally taking action on being it till I see it and one of the major things that's happening for me in 2022 is I'm closing the doors on my brick-and-mortar Pilates studio that I had for 16 years in beautiful Laguna Beach, California, so that I can be the digital Nomad that I want to be delivering education, coaching and supporting other contract work and businesses all over the world. Hope you all are doing well.

Joanna Vargas 25:30  

Hi, this is Joanna Vargas from episode one checking back in with all of you Be It listeners. And you know what ever since I recorded episode one with Lesley Logan, OMG. It was so much fun. How does it get any better than that? And a recent action that I took so that I can be it till I see it, is I started journaling in the morning. I wake up early in the morning before the sunrise and I journal. And sometimes it's just a few minutes and sometimes it's up to 30 minutes as long as I write down and I take time to actualize what it is that I would like to create in my life. It is creating so much more and I'm excited to hear from all of you. I'll talk to you next time.

Brad Crowell 26:14  

Okay, all right. Finally, let's talk about those BE IT action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can you take away from your convo with Chinwe Onyeagoro? So, do you want to go first on this one because I took first on the other?

Lesley Logan 26:31  

I know well, let's just mix it up with the 100th episode. All right. So she had visualisations her BE IT item. And she had four things I took one of them. And mine is I know you would have probably thought that I would have chosen the schedule one. Because we all know how I feel about ideal schedules, everybody. And I do feel that way. And I visualize all the time. But I do all the time. One thing that I actually liked that she said, and since our interview I've been thinking about this a lot is, "What do you want to be feeling like when you hit your goals?" And the reason I love this as a BE IT action item because I think it's really easy to like work frickin hard to focus on getting to the goal, you get to the goal. And often most of us don't even celebrate, we just move on to the next thing or we're like, bummed out ...

Brad Crowell 26:31  

We move on to the next goal. Or we don't like yeah, there isn't like a ...

Lesley Logan 27:24  

Or we have this expectation hangover. Because you don't have the feeling you thought you would have. But if you are, and I've been there. But if (Brad: Sure) I feel like if you visualize how you want to be feeling a) it helps get you through the frickin middle. I'm in the middle right now everyone. I'm in it, and it sucks. But the middle, you can't avoid the middle. It's there for a reason. It's how movies are made. I just keep telling myself, the middle is here. So someday, there's an entertaining movie that has you on the edge of your seat, see what's going to happen next. But when you visualize how you want to feel when you hit your goal, in the midst of the messy middle of the frickin middle, you can be thinking like, "Yeah, but when I get to this goal, I'll be poolside and Palm Springs again. Yes, yes, I'll be there. And I'll feel this way. And I'll get this massage, and I'll do these things." And so it's kind of like a carrot of some kind. But also, I feel like if I actually visualize that, then when we hit our goals, we would actually celebrate that because we've had planned the celebration the whole time, like a birthday party. Yes! ... (Brad: Right)

That is you know that, you know what that is, it's so funny. I never really thought about this with a wedding. We have the reception afterwards, which is the party. (Lesley: Yeah) It is a intentional ...

We planned our party big time ...

Brad Crowell 28:49  

Wedding party. Yeah, but I mean, I would guess most people do that. They have their wedding, which is the ceremony. And that could be in front of the, you know, the judge or a priest or whatever. And that's smaller, and it's relatively, you know, generally speaking, it's less complicated. And then there's the party afterwards. And that is a very intentional time, where we get to celebrate the fact that there was this event that happened getting married, right? When we go on and we do our goals in life, and we're like, "I want to, you know, bring on 10 clients or I want to make $40,000 or $100,000" or whatever your number is ...

Lesley Logan 29:32  

Or maybe you're just wanting to retire early.

Brad Crowell 29:35  

Yeah, whatever, whatever the thing is, then, but we we hit that and then it's like, "Great. Now I want 20 clients. Now I want 50,000. Now I want 200,000." But we didn't take a moment like we do in a wedding to celebrate the event. Right? And it's and when you when you work that way it's it's actually easy to get into that routine of like, "Great. Hit it next. Great. Hit it next." You know, I mean, we've done it a bunch of times and with with as we've been growing our company, you it becomes you forget that you've succeeded in something you forget. You just kind of were like, "Okay, cool. What's next?" (Lesley: Yeah) And and that that makes things you know, like boring actually. And it becomes a slog instead of it being exciting.

Lesley Logan 30:21  

Yeah, agreed, agreed. So anyways, I, since our since I interviewed her and I heard that I've been really trying to think about that. And like, I drove myself to Palm Springs. I've now done this two times, I've driven (Brad: Yeah) myself 4.5 hours to the desert. And I've taken the scenic route. And part partially this trip, a) I heard this interview with her and b) I was driving my dad's car and his car does not accept my phone charger. So I had to literally like save the battery. So I started off with like, battery, like low battery, whatever the mode is. And then I would turn the maps off and turn the all the things that I sorted all these things up. So for some drives, I did part of the drive, I didn't have any sound of any kind like nothing, and I was just like, driving through the desert. And I was just picturing like, "Okay, if I am in the middle now, what does the next step look like? How does it feel like what does that do? How does that excite me?" And I would if it didn't excite me, I was like, dream bigger, think differently. If it doesn't excite you, that's not the end. That's not the goal. Otherwise, why are we doing it? (Lesley laughs) So anyways, I do it here we do like but that is my BE IT action item that I've been using. Thank you Chinwe, my new best friend.

Celeste Holbrook 31:40  

Hey, this is Dr. Celeste Holbrook from episode 85, checking back in with you Be It listeners. I wanted to let you know that one action step that I took to be it until you see it is to sign up for a storytelling course, so that I could be more effective at telling my story about how I became a sexologist through my experience of painful sex and growing up in purity culture. So that's how I'm being it until I see it, and I hope you guys are doing the same. Talk to you soon.

Laura Cain 32:13  

Hey, this is Laura Cain from episode 90, checking back in with you Be It listeners. Still striving all the time to be it till you see it for. Just home for a few days to recording with the band, loving every moment this wild and unexpected ride has to offer. Take care. Bye.

Brad Crowell 32:33  

Yeah, and so I love that. I'm all about that. And also I know that drive and I love that drive. So I'm sorry, I wasn't there. 

Lesley Logan 32:41  

Oh, you missed it. I took a pic... By the way, it's just sidenote interrupt you. I picnic at that Kelso train station. (Brad: Oh, cute.) Oh, yeah, there was a jail cell there. (Brad: What? Oh) Yeah, there was a jail cell there. It's still there. It was actually moved a little bit. But the actual cement place where it was was it's still there. And somebody ended up taking the jail cell and this other couple found in their backyard when they and they brought it back. And it's part of this (Brad: What?) It's like a National Park. It's like an actual match like the state has people monitoring this like park. Anyways,

Brad Crowell 33:20  

How about the pink... the pink phone booth?

So, I saw the pink phone booth. Did not do the picture. I was going to do it on the way back but then I got invited to a pool party at the Virgin Hotel. So I had to get back to Vegas. (Brad: Okay, okay, steady get back.) Anyways ... Next well, y'all aren't gonna hear about that but Brad will. Anyways, your BE IT action item. (Lesley laughs)

Yeah, so it comes back to visualizing again. And, you know, she talks about, like her whole BE IT processes about visualization. But she we're gonna take one piece she said she wanted who who do you want to be surrounded with and interacting with? And the reason I am drawn to this is because we've all heard that we're the sum of the five people you hang out with the most. You know, the, the the people who are influencing you, you know, and then obviously, you want to be in the room with the people who are doing the thing that you want to do so that you can just listen and be around them and like, you know, garner some of that energy, which is exactly why Lesley and I make sure that we're always taking coaching, that we always have coaches, and we are putting ourselves in the room with other business owners who are being innovative and creative. They're generally our peers, usually, or a little higher than us right so that we can get ideas from them and see if those are applicable to what we're doing and see you know, how we can uplevel our offerings and our business and all that stuff. And, you know, she said, visualize who you want to be surrounded with, right who is in your life, when you're where you want to be? Who you want to be interacting with. And and I think this is so important to do. It will because, you know, if you don't aspire, you know, the it's this, there's a, there's an, it's easy to just be stuck in this, this, the same old, same old, you know, in the rut. And, you know, when you like, that's one of the things that I love the most about our coaching group, our coaching group Agency, is that we have been intentionally creating a community of people who are positive, encouraging, and supportive. Right? And so when you join a community like that, you're suddenly in this one way different mindset, this room, quote, unquote, 'room', it's virtual, but in the room with people who are excited, instead of angry, negative. I mean, it's like Facebook groups, we all know how negative Facebook groups can be. Same thing with YouTube comments. They're terrible. They're always terrible. Twitter is the worst, right?

Lesley Logan 35:59  

Except to our listeners, our listeners, leave the best YouTube comments, thank you so much, you can keep leaving them. (Brad: You can keep leaving positive comments. We love you. Thank you.) And our OPC Facebook group is also the safest place on the planet. But we all know the other one ...

Brad Crowell 36:16  

Well, that that's my point is we it's because we're intentionally cultivating an environment that is (Lesley: Yeah) safe and exciting, right. But typically, that's not necessarily the case. Right? So, but, but when we, when she said this, it made me remember, oh, yeah, you know, we are constantly aspiring to be in the room, or who do we want to be surrounding ourselves with in the future? And, you know, and obviously, what I'm talking about here is in a business context, doesn't necessarily have to be a business context. (Lesley: No) It could be if you are college students ...

Lesley Logan 36:50  

I visualized you, I visualized you (Brad: Yeah, yeah) before I knew you, and then I visualized you. Because I, there's that. And then actually, there's a couple people that I just met that I'm like, "Ooh, I want these people to want to be in a room with me." And you know, what's crazy? The pool party I was at, I wanted to meet those people. And I got invited to this pool party. This pool party was like, aaahhh. So visualize it, and it can happen.

Brad Crowell 37:17  

Yeah. Say that again because I don't know if anybody heard you.

Lesley Logan 37:20  

Oh, well, they did. I said, visualize it because it could happen. It could happen.

Brad Crowell 37:25  

Because it could happen. Yeah. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah. So ...

Lesley Logan 37:27  

What if like imagine, which is just like imagine all of you. We're gonna ... BE IT action item together. Picture. Let's just picture two people, two people that you don't know personally yet, but you've been wanting to know. Okay, you've been wanting to know them. Picture them right now. Where are you at with them? What are you doing? (Lesley pause) You got it, you got in your head. Okay. I'm watching Brad. So I know if he has it. Okay. All right. So now, how does it make you feel?

Brad Crowell 38:07  

Hmm, I mean, a little bit of a question mark of like, how can I make it happen? (Lesley: Okay) You know like, okay.

Lesley Logan 38:14  

But that's not ... You're not trusting the universe there. So law of attraction, right? Which I get it people are like, "Ah, the universe." It's double woo, it's one woo. Not one. It's not two. If you put out there, like literally say like Jen did, let's go back to our bold moment. (Brad: Right) Because she can she didn't want to do her job. She didn't know what the next step was. So she just asked two people. So trying to control the 'how' is not possible. I could not control you calling me. I tried. In my brain, I really did. So. Right? Um, so you have to just know that like you put it out there. Right. So who are you with? What are you doing? How does it make you feel to like, in that moment, could be connected with them? How would you feel right now? And then put out there tell two friends, "Hey, I really love to meet this person. Who do you know, who do you know, I know this person. Who do you know?" And also, we've just had somebody reach out to us recently. Who wants to do a collab? I've always wanted to do collab with her. Always. (Brad: Yeah) I just was like, "I want to do a collab with her. But like, what am I going to offer her?" And then someone else someone else told her, "Hey, you should collab with them." So like, just so you know, when you you don't even have to like tell random people you could just tell yourself and like, "Oh, that'd be nice. You could put in your journal." And you'd be you'd still to do action. I still have to do work. I still had to show up and do my life every day and show like and be the person that I am so that they'd be attracted to me but but you'd be really surprised. So anyways, everyone's homework if you didn't do it while I was talking about it, picture a couple people and how did it make you feel? What are you doing? And then ask two people, tell two people.

Brad Crowell 39:59  

Yeah, So get out there.

Lesley Logan 40:01  

Yeah. (Brad: All right) Anyways, something ... (Brad: Amazing) Okay, I have to tell you this really quickly, and then we'll wrap this up.

Brad Crowell 40:06  

Yes, an announcement.

Lesley Logan 40:08  

Yeah. So it's 100th episode, guess what I want to give you a bunch of stuff, I want to give you a ton of things, I want to give you BE IT action reminders everywhere all over your place. So here's what's gonna do, you have to it's, it's a one week only, so if you're listening in real time you can win this, there is a basket of merch with your name on it. And because I know people like money, a gift card. And it doesn't matter where you live in the world, I made sure it's like one of those like Visa MasterCard situations, you can use it anywhere. So you got to go to the Be It Instagram. There's a whole bunch of rules, not a ton, just a few. And there's ways to get extra entries. That means my team is literally going to log those extra interesting entries, personally, because there's no fancy way to do this whole thing. But anyways, go to the @be_it_pod on Instagram, @be_it_pod on Instagram, and you'll see the rules. You have to like the post, follow us, tag a friend who needs to be a Be It follower. And then there's ways to get extra credit, check out all the things. It's not supported by Instagram. I have to say that, but it's supported by me, supported by us. And we are really, really excited because he made it to 100. And I had, I had no idea how this would feel until I got here. And you know what, it feels really good. And I want to get to 1000/

Brad Crowell 41:33  

Whoa, all right, I'm in.

Lesley Logan 41:36  

I know (Brad: I'm in.) I just went all the way. I'm like we're 10, we're 10 xing this, so I may have to do a third episode a week, would you like a third episode a week? (Lesley laughs) Let me know. Um, tell me what you want. Anyways, thank you. Truly, truly, truly, thank you. I hope you enjoy listening to our past guests, share some more BE IT action tips that they're doing. And you can see yourself in their stuff, there's more to come. Also check out the ones we posted on the gram. And, you know, keep remember, it's not about doing every single BE IT action item. It's about doing the ones that work for you and doing the way that works for you. Because perfect is boring. Nobody wants to be friends with that. Action brings clarity. It's the antidote to fear. Brad, thank you so much for signing on to something you said you had nothing to do with and being part of all of it. (Lesley laughs)

Brad Crowell 42:30  

You know, I can't help myself.

Lesley Logan 42:33  

He likes, he likes new businesses, everyone.

Brad Crowell 42:38  

Amazing. Well, seriously, everyone. Thanks again, for listening, we are grateful that you're here with us on this journey. And if you have guests that you think we should be talking to let us know, just chat to us. And if you haven't left us a review, please do. So that helps other people hear this message. And, you know, allows allows us to grow ...

Lesley Logan 42:58  

The review... Actually, like I'll just say this, all the review is like you might think, "Oh, whatever, it doesn't mean anything." Let me just tell you it is bigger than a Yelp review is bigger than a Google review. In the podcast world reviews are everything. So yes, I have 100 episodes. And that's amazing. We can reach out to bigger and better guests. Because when you hit 100th people like, "Okay, this legit podcast," but then they actually look at the reviews, people with PR people, they look at how many reviews there are. And (Brad: Yeah) and that so your review doesn't just (Brad: Helps us get better guests) it doesn't just let other people know it's a good podcast. (Brad: I mean better. It get more guests.) It gets, gets us more guests. It gets us more guests, and we've had some amazing guests. So I mean, (Brad: Yeah, exactly.) you know, better is relative. I mean, they should (Brad: Yeah) be so lucky to be on our pod now, we are 100th episodes. (Brad and Lesley laughs) But anyways, so I just have to say that and also I really I created this podcast for you. I created it for the person I was who wish I had help and support and up and a podcast to listen to that felt realistic and inspiring and actionable. And like Chinwe created a product that people needed. I literally created this podcast because I listen to podcasts so much and I always felt like oh, that was really nice. Must be nice for them. And I really wanted to make sure that you got to hit listen to guests who could go and say this is really honestly what happened and here's some steps you can take. And so thank you for listening as if this is your first episode. Hi, welcome. Make sure you go back and listen to 99 so you know what we're talking about. If it's your 100th episode with us, thank you, thank you so much. And keep sharing it however you share it. It really does make a difference and also tell us what you're doing. Tell us your bold moments. We love answering your questions. We also love sharing your bold moments. Go Jen and and listen to some more amazing updates. Thank you everyone. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 44:55  

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 44:56  

And you know the drill how you use this tips in your life? Tell us, screenshot this. Tag Chinwe, tag PocketSuite and let us know what you're doing to Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 45:07  

Bye for now.

Christina Lecuyer 45:10  

Hey y'all, it's Christina Lecuyer here from episode number 23. And I am still being it every single day by deciding it is my turn. Congratulations to you Lesley for over 100 episodes. So freaking amazing and to all your listeners. Please keep being it until you see it and I promise you you will.

Hilary Hartling 45:31  

Hey, this is Hillary Hartling from episode 57, checking back in with you Be It listeners. I wanted to share with you a reminder that has done wonders for me lately, and it's this there is no rush, you can stop worrying and don't hurry. The truth is that you are never in competition for your higher purpose and calling. I hope that helps, happy be it it till you it and you've got this.

Lesley Logan 45:58  

That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast! One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram! I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

Brad Crowell 46:33  

It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 46:44  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 46:49  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 46:57  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all videos each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 47:09  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time. 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Even as a young girl creating lemonade stands, Chinwe Onyeagoro was always thinking about franchising and creating more. Join an entrepreneurial convo with Chinwe Onyeagoro and LL discussing launching, managing, and visualizing startups. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The journey to CEO and recognizing Plan Z
• How you raise money as a small business
• Finding the need to create a startup 
• Feedback, launching, and the process to get it right
• Growth with sharing and celebration 
• Trust is always key for customer support and service
• Visualization to change the status quo 

Episode References/Links:

• Website
• Instagram

Guest Bio:

Chinwe is the co-founder and CEO of PocketSuite. After graduating from Harvard, Chinwe worked as a management consultant at McKinsey providing strategic advice to Fortune 1000 companies. She came to the realization that her passion was not in helping multi-billion dollar businesses increase market share, but in helping solo operators and micro businesses succeed. Her initial focus was working with small business owners to access growth capital through a network of 300+ lenders.

After raising over $150MM in capital for small businesses, Chinwe recognized that more than loans most service professionals just needed a simpler way to get booked and paid on a recurring basis by their clients. These professionals were either using too many single purpose apps or just pen and paper, spending countless hours trying to find, convert, and follow-up with clients.

By combining insight into the operations of successful service professionals with an understanding of the power of technology to automate any business workflow, Chinwe has gained recognition as a thought leader in helping small businesses succeed. 

PocketSuite is an all-in-one mobile and desktop app that helps any service professional with clients manage scheduling, invoicing, payment processing, contracts and text-based client communication.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Hello Be It listener, I have a very special guest. And I'm sure I say that at least 17 times, but it's okay. Because I really do have a very special guest for you today. It's funny how things work out. And I really want you to know that if something you were working on, doesn't work out, and you were like, but that's the thing I was gonna do. I need you to listen this whole episode because I actually share how I spent time with a company working really hard to make something happen and it didn't happen. And it didn't happen because it wasn't supposed to because the thing that I'm doing now with our guests, that's the thing that is supposed to happen. That's where the magic is. And I am honored, honored, to be working with them, and to be part of the mission that they're on because our missions are so aligned. So today I have Chinwe Onyeagoro. She is the CEO of PocketSuite, which is the scheduling tool that Profitable Pilates one of my companies has partnered with, with the Profitable Pilates signature edition. This is for any service based business. So if you're not a Pilates instructor and listen this but you are in the service based business, I really want you to check it out. Also, just I'm so excited to hear what she talks about in creating this company. Because no matter what it is that you're creating, whether it is a lemonade stand, or it is a you know, Breathworks Company, or Pilates business, or maybe you're an artist, or maybe you actually want to be an interior decorator, all those things. I want you to listen to how she created her company, and how she got it to grow. Because I'm a firm believer, if you build it, they don't just come like out of the blue, you have to put it out there, share it, listen. And she she shares a beautiful roadmap that I believe that you all can be inspired by, take some nuggets with. And hopefully you try out our tool, the tool we've got together because it really is going to make it easier for you to do what you're here to do. You've got a purpose on this planet. And you need an easy way to do it, an easy way to run it, an easy way to make it. So simple. So anyways, that being said, if you're interested in the 30 day trial, we have the link in the show notes below. But here you are, the woman of the of the moment, Chinwe is here to share her story of how she got from being a seven year old little girl creating businesses to the CEO of an incredible incredible company PocketSuite. Thank you so much. And here she is.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice not, a perfect. Let's get started.

All right, Be It listeners, I have a very special woman here. I'm really excited to actually have her all to myself because every time I've ever got to talk to this woman there's like six heads on the screen. And but we we met because well I'm gonna let her talk about it in just a second. However, it just amazing like the divine appointments that people you can meet on this world when you're just working on your passion and like the purpose of solving problems. And so Chinwe Onyeagoro, I'm so thrilled to have you here. Can you please tell the Be It listeners who you are and what you're up to right now?

Chinwe Onyeagoro 4:00  

Lesley, I am super excited to be talking to you and the Profitable Pilates community. My name is Chinwe Onyeagoro. And I'm the CEO and co founder of a company called PocketSuite. I'll tell you more about it.

Lesley Logan 4:13  

Yeah. Okay. So, you know, you're the CEO. How does, how does one get there? Because I think that is, you know, I have I was the CEO of my own companies, which is like it felt it felt really weird to be that one. There's like four people on the team. I'm like, "Really, am I a the CEO of something." (Chinwe: Exactly.) And then I and then I went then we came a team of 20. And I was like, "Actually, I'm not a CEO. I'm just on the Chief Visionary Officer, thank you so much." But how did how did you get to being the CEO of this amazing company? What was the journey there?

Chinwe Onyeagoro 4:42  

Yeah, it's really funny. I joke, "I'm the Chief Evangelist Officer." Right? (Lesley: Yes) Like, that's really what the CEO is. Right? You're like the face and you're helping to create the vision as you said. So I like to tell folks that my path to CEO was very windy. Let's say that I'm on my plan Z, you know, we, our parents talk to us about plan A, plan B. And it's like, "No, no, let's keep going." (Chinwe and Lesley laughs) It's a windy road. I'm just from a very early age, I'm originally from Nigeria. And I've always been really motivated to kind of understand how business works and how you help people kind of make money and live a great life. And for me, I just was very intrigued by entrepreneurism very early. So I would at the age of seven, I had friends, we'd always come up with business ideas, whether it's like a baby sitters club, or a lemonade stand, and everybody had a role, right? So there was someone who loved to think about how much sugar do we put in the lemonade mix? And I was the one always writing the business plan. It's like, "How we're going to get the next lemonade stand on the next block?" Right? And so, that has just been my path. If I'm hanging out with my friends, and we're walking, you know, down the street, we're looking inside stores, I'm always bugged by stores that only have like few pieces of merchandise, and like, "How are they making money? Are they selling on Amazon? Are they ..." And my friends like, "Are you going in to buy something or can we move on?" Right? And so that's just my thing ... (Chinwe laughs)

Lesley Logan 6:04  

Oh my god, I love that so much, I would I still do this, I like look at space, and like, "Oh, my god, that would make an excellent this." Like (Chinwe: Exactly) I just someday, I see myself just being an amazing paid consultant because ...

Chinwe Onyeagoro 6:14  

Exactly. It's just in the DNA, right? So so you could kind of say that, like I always, I was always going to be on a path to sort of running a business or helping to manage a business. And I started out just asking a lot of questions. So I went into consulting, because that's kind of the path where you can get exposure to a lot of different types of businesses, a lot of different industries, you get to like, learn fast. How they make money, and then help them make more money come up with ideas, right? So that was kind of my early, my early kind of experience or professional experience after college. And then fast forward, I started thinking about gosh, you know, there are specific problems I'd like to solve, and it's for much smaller businesses, but like big businesses, the Fortune 500 companies are kind of fun, you get to play a little bit lot more resources. But in terms of impact, and like, but for my efforts, like would this have happened? It's the smaller businesses, it's the folks who are going out these heroes, right, your listeners, right, that have gone out and said, "I'm going to follow my passion. I'm going to work for myself." And they've you know, frankly, I like to say that, you know, solopreneurs folks who have small teams, like you might be doing it and you're independent, but you're not alone. You've got teams of folks, right, that are kind of helping you from different parts of the ecosystem. And I was one of those folks who kind of stepped out and started helping people raise money, get business loans, created a company that was really just about you should be able to get the loan you need to help your business grow. And ...

Lesley Logan 6:30  

So I, I have a question about that. Because I feel like raising money is literally (Chinwe: Yeah) a being it till you see it because you're correct me (Chinwe: Yeah) if I'm wrong, you are going into a room and you're saying, "This is what its gonna look like. (Chinwe: Yeah) This is what we're doing all (Chinwe: Yeah) that stuff." And half the time you haven't even like press play on anything happens ... (Lesley laughs)

Chinwe Onyeagoro 8:04  

Totally, totally. So three things, one is most people the first money they raise is their credit card, their personal credit card, they're just using their credit card, because you're right, there's no one there that kind of believes in what you see. And so you have to like bet on yourself. Right? So that's the first thing. The second thing is the vast majority of businesses, the kind of businesses, we work with Lesley, our service based businesses, and they're not really raising equity money, right? They're typically getting debt, they're getting small business loans from like banks, or credit unions or like smaller, and those are the category of folks who are looking at you and saying, "Well, can you repay me? (Lesley: Yeah) I know you want to do all this cool stuff, but like how much money you're making today to be able to pay me back, if I give you this money." Again, that's why we use our credit cards, because we already have that. So I was actually helping them raise that kind of money. And then there's a small group of folks who are creating chains of Pilates studios and chains of yoga sho... you know, studios where they can actually kind of go out to an equity investor. (Lesley: Yeah) They say their first investors were friends, family, or fools. And so you might go out to that group first to get some money. (Chinwe and Lesley laughs) And then the next wave. So I raised about $150 million in small business loans for businesses. So yay, that was really exciting. And this was a category of folks who were getting rejected about 80% of the time (Lesley: Yeah) for traditional bank loans. So routing ...

Lesley Logan 9:25  

Definitely, was one of those people. So (Chinwe laughs) here I was making over six figures could show every single year more and more like growth, and I went to the bank and I was like, "I just need $15,000." I didn't think that was a lot of money. (Chinwe: Yeah) And they, 100% I was like, "Do I borrow more? Is more better like what's the amount that I need to borrow?" So I had to use a credit card and buy the equipment on a credit card. Hustle to pay that credit card down. So when the balance came due, I could put that on the card. (Lesley laughs)

Chinwe Onyeagoro 9:53  

Crazy, crazy. Yeah, that's it. That's the path. Right. So and that's the thing, right, like banks aren't funding your growth. They're typically funding your cash flow. Right. They're like just saying, "Hey, you can..." They're not funding growth because they don't necessarily believe, right? And what you see in the future, they're just going to fund what you're making right now. So what I found is that a lot of folks were raising this money, and it was really to cover cash flow. And I just was confused by it, right? Like you're primarily a service based business, you're offering these great services to clients that are paying you that regularly, why are you raising money to cover that cash flow, it's because they weren't billing on time, they weren't collecting the money upfront, they weren't selling things like packages to be able to sell bundles. And so they were basically eroding their margin by raising this money to have to pay interest (Lesley: Yeah) on you know, something that their client should have paid for. So for me, that sort of set me down a path where I said, "Gosh, we can build a better mousetrap, a better system for making it easy for these awesome businesses to build. And to make money up front, collect deposits, get subscriptions, all of that stuff that really allows them to only raise money if they're looking to grow and to be able to have that cash flow right up front from their clients."

Lesley Logan 11:06  

See, I love this because you are like you are working on something. You saw consistent problem was happening. And instead of like continuing to do the thing, that just puts a bandaid on the problem. You're like, (Chinwe: Right) "How do we actually just solve the problem?" And I love this so much, because, you know, since since when I became a Pilates instructor, I was around the recession of 2008. And I was in retail at the same time. So people weren't, people weren't buying their diamond necklaces anymore. They weren't buying the $500 purses. They were like, "Oh, what's this vegan purse?" I'm like, "Yes, so I can sell you that vegan purse." And they're like, they still wanted to buy but they were being conscious, right? And so but it didn't translate to me that it would cause me problems in my teaching, however, and I didn't, what I did here was all these teachers saying, "There's no money in teaching, there's no money in teaching." I was like, "Why?" And they're like, "Well, I found the same problems. People were bil... like waiting until someone remembered their checkbook." And I'm like, "No one goes into a store and leaves with an item without paying for it. It's called stealing. So they're stealing sessions from you. No, they have to pay when they have to pay." And so I found that too. And that's why I ended up coaching people, because I'm like, "Why is this happening? Like, who trained them on this?" And so when you went into making this, like, I love how you call it like a little mousetrap or this little way of like solving this problem, so that they only have to raise money when they have to raise money and actually have their margins on it. Okay, because I've been on the side of like, just just doing the part that I I'm on. That was a lot of work. And you already did the work. So how, how did you, how did you start this company? And like, how long did it take you? And like, what did you tell yourself when you're hitting obstacles because I feel like that's where people get stuck.

Chinwe Onyeagoro 12:45  

Yeah. So so the first thing is I sort of started like, in my own backyard. And so I looked at the folks that I was working with, who I would text and then they show up, like whether it's fitness trainer or what have you. And they give me these awesome sessions. And then they wait 90 days, 60 to 90 days to send me an invoice. And I was like, "I'm ready to pay, just send it to me." And so I just went to them. And I was like, "Can we like can we do something different?" And I had teamed up with my co founder who was engineer number five at a company called NetSuite, and they build like big business management systems, just like you know, PocketSuite for much larger companies. So he at the time was, I think, like, there were thousand engineers in his company at that point. And so he was kind of bored. And like, "Hey, I'd love to do this all over again for much smaller businesses." So he built the first version of PocketSuite. We went to the service providers I had worked with to say, "Hey, will you use this?" And some of them were super excited. Others were like, "No, I'm using a Blackberry. You built it on on an iPhone." And I was like, "Ah..." Right. And so we put it in the app store and then folks started using it. And what we realized is so many folks, so many service professionals were doing everything on their phone, right? They were like scheduling appointments, they were messaging, and they were doing it across like 3, 5, 7, different apps, (Lesley: Yeah) right? They were putting client information in 7 to 10 different places. And they had to keep track of it all and it was a mess. And so when we sent them this like you know, kind of manna, right from heaven, right, this one app that had their client information, it had their calendar, it had who paid them. It had everything notes on the client, they were like, "What the fudge?" Right. And they started sending us messages like, "Can you add packages?" We're like, "What's packages? Can you add subscriptions?" We didn't know at the time what it was but we started listening and we started building it out from there.

Lesley Logan 14:34  

That was cool. That and I think I just want to like I love the part you listened. And I and you also and this is the hard part for a lot of people. The first one isn't the last one. The first, you just have to get something done like, how (Chinwe: Yeah) what like what was the struggle of like done enough versus (Chinwe: Yeah) you know, like what, how did you handle like going, "Okay, this is enough done to get out for people to try." (Chinwe: Yeah) Did you feel ready to do that? Or was you know, I mean, you've been in the business for so long, maybe you do. But like, I feel like I think it's done. Is it done?

Chinwe Onyeagoro 15:08  

Yeah. No, it's a great question like this, this whole concept of like MVP, like your minimum viable product, like you don't have to build, you know, like the Colosseum day one, right? Like, you just have to start with like, a big pain point. So for us, we said, like, "It's about getting paid." And so we said, like, "Let's get invoices in here. And it's about getting paid for your time. Let's get invoices, and let's get the calendar in here. And then the rest will follow." We started with literally three features, we now have, like 33, right, but we started with three. And we said, "If we can solve this problem that we hear over and over again, that we've experienced personally, then we will buy ourselves the right to be able to do more." And that's exactly what happened. People were like, these are the three apps I use the most, my messaging, my calendar, and, you know, PayPal or Square, Cash App to get paid, right? And so if we can just like bring those all three in one app, like we've solved a big problem, not every every problem, but we've solved the big one, and then they are going to give us hopefully, the space to do more.

Lesley Logan 16:10  

Yeah, I think, you know, I think that's like really good information for starting anything. Because (Chinwe: Yeah) the it you do have to get things out there so you can get the feedback. You know, like, (Chinwe: Right) we talked about this when I started the podcast, one of my friends when I was interviewing them, they're like, "How'd you feeling? Well, that was my first one. How did I do?" And I it doesn't even matter because it's going to go out because there's probably only seven listeners right now. (Lesley and Chinwe laughs) So it doesn't even matter. We have to get it out. So you actually learn so you can get the information, get the feedback, and (Chinwe: Yeah) see how people are using it. And that's, that's hard because that nobody, I think people kind of fear feedback. They think that the (Chinwe: Yeah) feedback means that they failed, and it's like, "No, it's just people asking questions and helping you get it better."

Chinwe Onyeagoro 16:53  

Well, here's the thing, we took our first users out to lunch. We sat with them, we were like, "Talk to us about your business. Tell us more" like we were just so excited that there was like crickets, right? And for us, we've always thought about feedback truly, as a gift. I know it sounds cheesy, but it's like, if they're complaining, that means they're using it right? Like, you hear nothing, then you've got an issue. But if people are giving you feedback, that means they care enough that you've solved enough of a problem that you're worth spending time on to get it right. And that's, you know, that's all you can ask for.

Lesley Logan 17:24  

Yeah, that's really cool. You know, I just remember, this is year, actually the second scheduling tool that I I was brought in by a different scheduling tool, because the founder was a client of mine. And he (Chinwe: Oh no way) was watching how the teachers were like, paying with money. And then he was like, "How he would pay me?" And, and he's like, he's like, "Would you use my scheduling tool?" And, um, it was for therapists, and I was like, "If you could make it work for teachers, I could help you sell it." And, you know, the thing is, is that I went in for a meeting, they had me, they had me for lunch, they asked all the questions, it was really fun. I was like, "This is really great." But you know, what ended up happening there was they sold, and when they sold, the company didn't want to expand into fitness, yet. (Chinwe: Oh no, yeah) And so it's just like, it's so funny how things work out because I've did like, I sort of liked that app. I love you, I love your tool so much more. (Chinwe: Yay) So it does way more things. And it really does solve any kind of service industries person's problems. And I think that it's nice, it wasn't like so like, on one thing, you've been really been (Chinwe: Yeah) able to do that. So okay, you know, you you listen to people, you figu... you'd like launch with the what was the most like, solve this problem first, and you kept going? (Chinwe: Yeah) Then there's like, it's not maintenance, because you're always growing, but it is sort of like, you know, getting more people to use it, getting more people to (Chinwe: Yeah) hear about it. And that's where that's really hard because once you get past the friends and family, (Chinwe: Yeah) getting strangers to be like, "Yeah, I'll trust you over my seven apps that I have this system for?" How do you handle that? Like, how do you get people to like, be willing to try something new?

Chinwe Onyeagoro 19:04  

Yeah. You know, early on, because you're you're an app that's really like helping people earn money, like, this is what I'm using to pay my rent or my mortgage and my children's school fees. Like it's about trust, right? Like, you think it's in the service industry, tech too. Right. Like, "I'm going to put my client's credit card here. I'm going to charge something and I'm going to expect that those funds will be deposited into my account." So for us, it was about credibility. Right. So we had a Wall Street Journal article written about us. We had TechCrunch, we were part of this like accelerator called Y Combinator, which is one of the most success... (Lesley: Were you really?) we were. Yeah. So Airbnb came from Y Combinator, and like, some of the biggest brands stripe came from, like those, some of the biggest brands, you know, came from that and it's just like, it's a legitimacy. It's like, we're on a path. We're building, you know, A grade, investment grade, you know, tech to solve a big market problem and that was huge because you people would call and say like, "How do I know you're not going to like, take my money." And we're like, "Here's a Wall Street Journal article on us, here's a this." You know, and they're like, "Oh okay." "We're built on top of Stripe, like Stripe is actually the one handling your money." And, and so like all of that, like really helped for to build that trust. And then more than anything, it's making the users we had happy. Because when you make, when you know this, right, like when you make a user, a client, a customer happy, they're, they're swinging from the rafters, they're talking about you in conversations where no one even brought up like a scheduling tool. But they're so happy that they're like sharing information. And our like, biggest kind of flywheel was just referrals. It's like, "I'm an aesthetician. I have a network of friends." Like, they're not even asking me, but I'm posting on Facebook, like, "Check this out. They're like an awesome (Lesley: Yeah) scheduling app." And so it just kind of blew up from there. Like it was just this word of mouth. And like, kind of viral referral loop that started happening.

Lesley Logan 21:00  

Yeah, which I'm obsessed with, because I still tell people all the time, like referrals are the like, people, even if it's a referral via text, like people are (Chinwe: Yeah) still getting their information from a friend. You know, they're (Chinwe: Sure) watching shows based on what their friends say, they're buying different things. Like I have a, I went to a place last Saturday to try like aerial fitness, because a friend was like, "Hey, you should check this out." And I was like, "Okay, I didn't even research them." I'm like, "Alright, I'll sign up." That's ... (Chinwe: Exactly, yeah) you know, and so I think, you know, we think because of ad spend that's out there, and like all these things, that that's the way to go. But really like your tried and true, it's gonna grow with with people sharing and celebrating. So I love that you focus on just like making sure people are feeling happy. (Chinwe: Totally) And solving their problems and trust. That's so good. You know, when, when Brad brought it to my attention, I was like, because, you know, the first time I was like, "I don't know. They didn't work out that time." (Chinwe laughs) (Chinwe: Yeah) Like, "How I'm gonna do this?" But you know, since I've been coaching fitness instructor since 2009 2010, because my boss at a studio was like, "How are you getting so many clients?" And I was like, "Isn't that my job?" (Chinwe and Lesley laughs) So I started getting really curious, like, "What is going on? What are teachers doing in sessions? What's happening there?" And then that led to a bunch of things like helping people figure out how to pick a program, because so many people are picking programs that wouldn't allow them to teach. And then I had to solve this problem. Like there's no money teaching, because there's so is otherwise people wouldn't create franchises. If (Chinwe: Right) there's you know, (Chinwe: Right) like, they just wouldn't so. So when I when I was looking at everything, what I loved is, you know, so many ser... like some people have memberships and some people have packages, and some people have auto renewals. And some people want a 12 hour cancellation policy. And it is amazing to me, how, I mean, obviously, over time, how you've been able to go, "Okay, how do we make sure that we can do all of these things. So someone can like someone (Chinwe: Yeah) on this street corner can have packages, but literally down the street, they could have memberships?"

Chinwe Onyeagoro 23:03  

Totally, totally. So one of the things that we we sort of said is, look, we want to be a mile wide and an inch deep. So we want to serve a variety of different service professionals, anyone who's running a business for themselves, but we want to do it in a way that like really focuses on just those core things that they need. And so how do you do that? Well, on PocketSuite, when you sign up, you put in your industry and the app, auto updates and personalize it for just your industry. So I mentioned before, we have 33 features. But for yoga, Pilates, it's like these are the five to seven features that matter most for you and you can kind of pick and choose. And so for us, it was like really important because people get bogged down by apps that have so many features, you have to take a course just to kind of learn. Right. Like, "How to use this thing?" Right? So that was really important to us. And again, like fundamentally, its messaging is like the underlying kind of base of it, and then build on top of that is scheduling. (Lesley: Yeah) And then on top of that is your payments, and then everything kind of shifts from there. But the one other thing I'll say is, those three things are like communicated differently depending on your industry. Right. Like so, in yoga and Pilates, we are talking about like privates and duets, and classes, right. And sessions versus, you know, in another industry, they're talking about open enrollment, and series, but those are all those are all forms of like classes, right? And so what we learned is it's about the like the lexicon, right? It's about how you communicate it for that industry to ensure that it works. You don't have to stack up tons of features. You just have to get the lexicon right and the core features right. (Lesley: Yeah) And that's what we've tried to do at PocketSuite.

Lesley Logan 24:48  

Yeah, it's it's amazing. We have so many members who are in there, and the time we're recording this in their second month and they're obsessed they love it. It's like it's so fun to to see people, you know, who probably would never have thought they need a tool, like the confidence that they have in their business by having one also, like, make some... I'm like, "You are a business owner, you have like you are, look at this. (Chinwe: Right) You've got this app." (Chinwe: Right) And it's just, it's just really cool. I, it's, I will have to send you some of the testimonials already because (Chinwe: Yay, thanks!) they're, they're really, they're really sweet. And it's, you know, it's a problem that has been needed to be solved. And while there's so many other tools out there, it's like, years ago, my thought was like, "Write down everything you needed to do. (Chinwe: Yeah) And then because you're gonna pay for it, make them sell it to you." (Chinwe and Lesley laughs) That was my like coaching advice on. And now it's like, "Stop, this is the one and if it doesn't work for you, that's totally fine but I bet you it will." And you also, you know, your your company really prides itself on your customer service, I have to say that you can tell because you can actually talk to your team. (Chinwe: Oh my gosh, yeah ...) How did you do that, because no one else does that?

Chinwe Onyeagoro 25:59  

Well, so first of all, like, I'm obsessed about great customer support and service, because for me, it's like, look, it's about trust. And it's about more than just, more than just an app, right? Like this is about human connection to help folks solve human problems, right. And tech is just first helping to facilitate that. And so what we've done is we've prioritized world class product technology, world class customer success. You've seen it with Airbnb, you've seen it with Zappos, like Zappos, their motto was like, "We're gonna keep you on the phone. We're not trying to like, we're not trying to hang up this call, like, traditional customer says, it's like, 'What else do you need? Oh, you want to buy pizza? We'll help you buy a pizza.'" Like it's, it's but but what happens is, when you value the relationship, your ability, then to solve whatever problems over the lifetime of that relationship, you are in first position as a resource, as a reference to be able to help that particular pro, that particular business solve problems, right, because they trust you. And that for us is what we're in the business of doing is, is building that trust. So we can help folks build a better business and hopefully a better life. And that's just like, that's the philosophy. And I will say this, Lesley, as we're on the phone, as our team members are on the phone with Profitable Pilates community members, they're like, "Hey, I just got off the phone with Brad and he advised me to do this, or Lesley always tells me shouldn't discount my services." So I'm gonna say to you, you obviously also prize, you know, customer success and customer service. (Lesley: Yeah) Like it's that's it? Right?

Lesley Logan 27:30  

Yeah, it... your, thank you for that. I love that. I love hearing that. (Chinwe laughs) But I and I think like, you know, no matter if you're listening, and you're like wanting to build, you know, some like massive business or just have a side hustle or some like that, I think the those takeaways trust is so key. And I bet everyone listening to this, obviously, what I assume they want people to trust them. When you make it easy for the tools you use to also (Chinwe: Yeah) allow you to have that feeling. It's so (Chinwe: Right) much easier to do your, to do whatever it (Chinwe: Right) is you want to do. Because it's so funny when when I'm using in some other app or tool or website, and it's like not working, then all of a sudden your energy isn't there, you've switched into like, "This is so frustrating." And then you have a call and you're like, "Okay, let me, let me get back." (Lesley and Chinwe laughs) You know, so it's like so nice that there's an there's actually a tool that you like, you believe in trust. I'm, I believe in trust, and it makes it easier to just do the job you want to do. Makes it easier to be it till you see it.

Chinwe Onyeagoro 28:27  

Totally, totally. And you know, and we think about a business app as well is like you're on the one hand saying, "How do I use it?" You're on the other hand, saying, "Why sho... Why am I why would I want clients to schedule me online? Why might I want like you're asking business strategy questions, too, which is where again, Profitable Pilates comes in, they're coming in knowing (Lesley: Yeah) the strategy because you've given them that coaching. So that makes our job so much easier." Like, "Okay, here's how you can do that."

Lesley Logan 28:51  

Yeah. I have to say I had so much fun making the coaching videos we did with the different features, because each time I was reading it, I was like, "And, it does this. Oh my ..." (Lesley and Chinwe laughs) And this is when I and then there was some things I was like, "This one you might want not to do, you got to check your state, just an FYI. Or, you know, how about instead of doing this, just put into the price, just build it into your price, you don't have to think about it." So it was really fun for me because it's just another way for me to get my coaching services out there. Because I really do, I'm on this mission that if more bodies are doing Pilates, the world's a better place. And since I cannot teach everybody, since there's like the every person out there that's teaching is the best served for who they're here on this planet for. I really want to empower them and not everyone will come into my coaching group and that's fine. But (Chinwe: Yeah) like having this like little way to like, give them a nudge, give them that coaching. It really does make me happy. And so I'm really I'm freaking grateful for you and what you've built and like I love your that you're on, you know, plan Z but plan Z is (Chinwe: Yeah) exactly where you were supposed to be. And (Chinwe: Exactly ...) it really is helping not just the people that are using your app, but people like me who are like I really, I really want more people to feel successful in their business and not have, what they end up doing is they don't charge enough because they don't want to have fees, they only take cash, but then their bookkeeping is crazy. And then they can't get loans, and they can't get this. And it's like, you know, I just want them to be able to do ... whatever their dream is. So thank you.

Chinwe Onyeagoro 30:16  

Well, you know, Lesley, first of all, let me just, again, brag on you, it's like 92% of your users who are using the Profitable Pilates edition, have been watching those videos, and they're coming back 10 times to watch those videos, like we've shared the, you know, analytics with you with Brad and and he's like, "Oh, my God," because what ends up happening is these are like, one minute, two minute, like segments of gold. That are helping people get to the business outcomes they want, which is working less, making more, having happier clients. And so you're helping them do it not in like a two hour course. It's like two minutes, "Here's what you got to do to like, make sure you're making the money you want and that you deserve." And so I just think it's like a really powerful path that you're on as well, which is to reach people where they're doing business. Right, And to be able to like, give them that nugget, and they can take action on it, right away. (Lesley: Yeah) So I thank you for that. I really (Lesley: Yeah) do.

Lesley Logan 31:11  

We are a dynamic duo, Chinwe. (Lesley and Chinwe laughs) We are, we're just solving the world's problems one small business at a time. Okay, Chinwe, first of all, I mean, obviously want everyone to sign up for the Profitable Pilates editions, (Chinwe laughs) signature edition. (Chinwe: Yeah) So we'll put that link below. But where else can people find you, get to know more about what you're doing, support you?

Chinwe Onyeagoro 31:33  

Yeah. So check us out. Also on our website, pocketsuite.io. You can see all the different features we have and how you can use them and see some of the members of our community ambassadors, and then you can check us out on Instagram. And that's @pocketsuiteapp - p o c k e t s u i t e app a p p. So looking forward to hearing from you guys.

Lesley Logan 31:58  

Yeah, okay, this is great. I know, I know, a bunch of our users will be listening and they'll they'll send it to you because they're their high user, high loyals. They're so fun. They love to tell people what they're doing. And I'm so appreciative of them, because they inspire me. On those days, they're like, "Is anyone listening? Is anyone using this?" And then you get to hear from them. So okay, we ask every guest, bold, executable, targeted, or intrinsic steps people can take, action they can take to be it till they see it.

Chinwe Onyeagoro 32:28  

Yeah, I think the first thing that I would say is visualize, like, there's so much that you can do to just change your how you feel about like what you're doing right now, just by visualizing what you want to be feeling like when you hit your goals? Who you want to be surrounded by and interacting with, and what you want your day to be like. Right? And so visualize it, because that is something you can control right now, what ends up happening is when you visualize it, the world, the universe conspires to help you to get there, right? Because you're it's top of mind. So like every decision you're making is taking into consideration that visual, that feeling, right? And if you just will it into being. And so I would just say visualization is huge. And if you cut out magazine articles, cut it, like, do whatever you need to do to like, get in that zone and stay there.

Lesley Logan 33:22  

Oh, I love that. I love that because that's something you can do. Like every day, you can just take a moment and like picture that that's really beautiful. (Chinwe: Totally, totally) Chinwe, I hope we get to meet again. I'm like secretly hoping that there's some tech conference in Vegas that makes you come out (Chinwe laughs) so we can go celebrate.

Chinwe Onyeagoro 33:39  

Just say the word. We will, we'll we'll pick the next team on site PocketSuite on site. We'll put it in, wherever region you are in.

Lesley Logan 33:45  

Yes, yes. Well, you know, there's a beautiful new casino and (Lesley and Chinwe laughs) (Chinwe: I love it.) you guys all have to go the 60th floor and visualize the next thing. (Chinwe and Lesley laughs) (Chinwe: I love it.) Oh, my goodness, thank you for being you. Thank you for all you've created. And thank you for letting me be part of it, in my in my own way, because I really am so proud of what to be part of what you've created and to really empower people. So thank you, and we hope to have you back.

Chinwe Onyeagoro 34:17  

Lesley, you've built an awesome community. We're inspired by you and all of the members that make the community is so great. So thanks for trusting us and for going on this journey with us.

Lesley Logan 34:28  

Yeah. All right, everyone, how are you going to use any all of all this information in your life. What I want you to do is screenshot this podcast. Tag the @be_it_pod, tag @pocketsuiteapp, and let us know so that way we can hear what your favorite things or what inspired you. And you know, you might create the next feature on the app you just never know. Right? So thank you everyone. Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_ pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 35:24  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli. 

Lesley Logan 35:35  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 35:39  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 35:48  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 36:00  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Adult friendships are hard and not always as consistent as they were growing up on the playground. Clare and LL discuss their 20 year friendship, the seasons of friendships, and when it might be time to let a friendship go. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Q&A fire round with LL 
• The difference between great friends and life friends 
• Finding fulfillment through taking a step forward
• Do you have friendship deal breakers? 
• Are you afraid of the light or the power that may come in the light? 
• Tulip tips…maybe for mothers day ;)

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where Clare and I are going to dig into the salty convo I had with Laurie Jabbar in our last episode. If you haven't yet, listen to that one, feel free to pause this now. Go back and listen to that one. Come back and join us. Definitely if you haven't figured out Clare is replacing Brad for this week and so you can hear another recap with her in an episode from last Thursday. But basically, you can listen to the episodes in whatever order you want. (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 1:13  

Has your husband been gone so long, you forgot his name? Is that what happened there? (Clare laughs)

Yeah, yeah, no, that's true. (Lesley laughs) All right. Well, we are even though didn't say anything Brad is in Cambodia, everyone and he will technically when this episode is out, he's been back but he is there while we're recording. So here's the deal. In the time this episode drops, we are one week away from the 100th episode dropping.

One hundred! (Lesley: Do you remember when I started it, why I started this?) I can't believe you're at 100 already. Like that's crazy. I remember when the first one came out, and we were just like so excited, like itching to hear it like so excited.

Lesley Logan 1:52  

I'm so excited. So much practice on like listening to my own voice because I actually on purpose. Don't watch any of my YouTube videos or any of my own classes. And I was like, "Oh, the podcast. I have to listen to it." (Lesley and Clare laughs) Anyways, y'all Clare and I have been friends since like 2001. (Clare: Yeah) Isn't that crazy. So I actually think it's really fitting for her to be on the episode recap with Laurie Jabbar because she has a pod, Laurie has a podcast with her friends. So, it's kind of fun. Anyways, we'll get into Laurie in just a second and what she does, but Clare do we have or are you, we have an audience question or are you hijacking?

Clare Solly 2:32  

I am totally hijacking. So, as I was thinking about coming on, I realized, like, again, we've been friends for 20 years, which seems crazy because neither of us looks old enough to be friends for 20 years. But, um, you know, a special bonus for those of you watching the YouTube. So I'm gonna give you a speed round of questions. (Lesley: Okay) I'm a like, I don't know if you can handle this because I don't know that you can pick one thing. But here we ... (Lesley: Do you know ... I'm on aquarius) And you're gonna explain everything.

Lesley Logan 3:02  

I know! I'm terrible at fire rounds. I'm terrible. Every every podcast that's ever had me on a set of fire round, I'm like, "Oh, they're gonna hate me after this."

Clare Solly 3:08  

I believe in you. I mean, I don't care. You can like everything. (Lesley: Okay, I will pick. I'll pick.) Okay, so here we go. I have six questions for you. Would you rather travel on an airplane or train? (Lesley: Airplane) Would you rather eat an orange or an apple?

Lesley Logan 3:24  

Apple, cut. (Clare: Okay. Tea or Coffee?) Coffee with oat milk.

Clare Solly 3:30  

Would you rather be given flowers or chocolate?

Lesley Logan 3:34  

Okay, I want the chocolate but it has to be vegan chocolate so not every brand is good. So, you know if you can't get me a real good vegan chocolate then by all means flowers Preferably ones that are not tulips because they fall over too quickly. (Clare: Would you rather swim in o... ocean a pool or lake?) I prefer a pool because honestly legs made me think of a brain amoeba and oceans the seaweed makes me think of souls from Ursula touching my body and grasping for life. I can't let it go. 

Clare Solly 4:11  

Oh my gosh. And we lived by the beach for so long. (Lesley and Clare laughs)

Lesley Logan 4:19  

But I did buy or pay to live near the beach. I liked I liked the air.

Clare Solly 4:23  

Fair. Okay. If you could, this is the last one if you can only have one flavoring. Would you rather have salt, pepper or butter y... ?

Lesley Logan 4:36  

Oh, salt all the way. I I y'all Brad's a chef loving person he's someday he'll be (Clare: So good) his own chef and like I put salt on fucking everything and he is like, "You haven't even tasted it yet." Yeah, I'm like it's gonna use the salt.

Clare Solly 4:51  

You came to visit me in in December. And (Lesley: Yeah) he like I saw him take the salt and hide it. I was like, "No, let's just try it first." You're like, "Where's the salt?" He was like, "No just try it first."

Lesley Logan 5:06  

So I have had my blood tested several times. For whatever reason. It's like I don't retain salt and I crave it. I but I'm not a savory person. Like if you're like, "Are you sweet or savory?" Sweet, thank you! But like I love like a moist warm cookie brownie cake all of the things. And I can't eat like I like the pastry stuff like the baked goods. I like it. I like to chew my food. And anyway, I I so I went out and we found some like artisan salt and so I have lemon ginger and I have black truffle and I have white truffle and a black lava. I don't think it does anything. Anyways, I love a salt. And yes, you can have too much you'll know your gums won't like it but I put salt. But y'all I have found a vegan butter that is out of this world. It's they don't sponsor me but if anyone knows them, I would love to be their their spokesmodel I think it's pronounced Miyoko's. It I believe it's Japanese. And they have a butter that is so it tastes like butter. It tastes like butter. You put your knife in there and you it like tastes like butter. And they also have some other cheeses that I have just destroyed. I friggin love them. Like I didn't even know I love cheese until I found this place.

Clare Solly 6:24  

Oh, that's so good. And I have a tulip tip for you. But I'm gonna save it to the end of this recap, because we should start talking about Laurie Jabbar's. 

Lesley Logan 6:32  

We should! And also it's right before Mother's Day and every person is going to need to know this tulip tip because (Clare: Yeah) you never know. 

Clare Solly 6:38  

So stay tuned to the end. Um, it's it's you know, it's good. It's not earth shattering, but it's good. Um, so let's talk about Laurie Jabbar speaking of salt. She is a fiery, salty, opportunist. Laurie Jabbar grew her fireside chats with friends to a larger audience with a launch of her podcast. She's a 10 Times 5 with Lisa O'Coyne. Together, the duo is helping women recognize the amazing new opportunities that come in the new chapter of life.

Lesley Logan 7:08  

Yeah, they're so fun. We got one of the two of them. So we'll have to have the other half.

Clare Solly 7:14  

Wow Lisa! Yeah, yeah. And I mean, she was delightful. I loved this podcast, and what was one thing that you loved about it?

Lesley Logan 7:22  

So first of all, she is a badass, and she's got so many like chapters in her life, so worth learning about them. But one thing that she brought up that I think is really important is called great friends versus life friends. And you know, um, so I don't know who I don't know if it was like when you and I worked together or like when I heard like, there's friends for a season, a reason and a lifetime. But ...

Clare Solly 7:46  

I feel like that was on a pillow or a blanket your grandma gave you like, (Lesley: something like that) you said it a lot.

Lesley Logan 7:52  

Yeah. And I have, I guess I lost a lot of friends. You know? Well, first of all, I was you know, I talked about this in the week of Wild Honey on my Instagram post. But like, because my mom ran their daycares. I always had kids around me, but I I don't know that I always had like, you know, like, I had like one or two best friends on my block. That's who I you know, you'd like to, like knock on their door. And then, um, because in my I switched schools a lot. When my when I was younger, I actually had to make new friends often. And then by the time I got to high school, I had friends, like if you're listening to us, and you were like, we had lunch together, they were all lovely people. But I almost felt like are we all just hanging out because we're just hanging out, like no one was calling me and inviting me out to do anything. And I didn't feel like I could invite them out. So it was like, we're like lunch mates. And so I just feel like, if you're someone who has not had not had friends for ever, it's okay. Because there's great friends like great moments of time with people. And there's some like you and I came in, like, there's like we kind of like we talked about, (Clare: You have been ...) there's on our episode like we can't episode 19 everyone. We kind of like came in and then there was time apart. And then they came in, there's time apart. And like a life friend can be like that, because there's life happening.

Clare Solly 9:05  

Yeah, yeah. And you know, you are definitely not the person that I met. And we've grown apart, and we've grown back together. And it's, you know, it's very interesting, because there's so much focus on romantic relationships and how people grow apart or grow back together or whatever, but we don't focus on friendships. And those should have just as much of a focus of a relationship as as romantic ones do. And yeah, you build these life friendships and, you know, like the ride or die is one of those hot things to say right now like, and you know, you are definitely one of my ride or dies, like you are completely across the country from me, but I feel like if I called you and I was having a life crisis, you would be like, "Okay, give me a day. Give me 24 hours. I'm hopping on a plane, we'll figure it out." And ...

Lesley Logan 9:57  

Yeah same for you. I agree. (Clare: Yeah) And I think that I think that some people think that ride or dies have to be in your life all the time. And like, I don't actually think a ride or die is like that. That's just like, that's a character of someone who loves you no matter what. And you know, that's it doesn't I think you're right. I love that you brought this up. There's so many books and movies about romantic relationships and how they been together. But there's so few of like, how does a friendship become a friendship? And like, is it okay to just like text every week? And then everyone's will have a phone call? Yeah, that is the Yes, by the way. (Lesley and Clare laughs) The answer is yes. So, (Clare: Yeah) so I think it's like, you know, important for people to just explore like, it's okay, if you had a great friend. And it may not be over forever, but maybe the, maybe the chapter is closed there. And then there's the life friends, the people who, you know, come in and out, or maybe they're there every single week. I hope that for you, you know, Brad has those people. You know, but the fact that you and I have been pretty good at slingshotting each other for 21 years. (Clare: Yeah ...) Our friendship needs a drink. (Clare: Our friendship is legal enough to drink. Cheers.) Cheers! What's something that you love, she said.

Clare Solly 9:58  

I loved that she said, take a step forward, that will bring you closer to fulfillment. And I like that a lot of a lot of what you talk about on this pod, a lot of a lot of the bold, intrinsic, actionable things that you talk about are, you know, what are small things you can do or what are ways you can just start to move forward. And I really liked the word fulfillment because if, if anything we've learned in the last couple of years, we need to figure out how to fulfill ourselves and fill our own cup first and fill our own lives first. (Lesley: Yeah) Because you know, you and I have talked about this, you're you're a recovering perfectionist, (Lesley: Yeah) I'm a recovering people pleaser. And what was that I said the other day? It doesn't matter. Well, I'll get I'll catch up to it. And (Lesley: Yeah ...) it's like I've have spent so much of my life trying to figure out how to make other people happy. Like I grew up with, you know, 50s hostess, grandmother and middle child mother who was always in the middle of of ar... all the arguments. And so she you know, she was the one that was like, "Okay, how can I, how can I keep everybody calm?" And, you know, I'm a child of divorce. And so like, my parents got divorced when I was little. So, like, fulfillment is a big a big lesson I've been learning like, lately, and it's like, what can I do for myself and only for myself, and it feels so narcissistic and so, so solitary, and whatever. And it seems funny for me to say that because I'm a single person, I'm 42 years old, single, happily single. But at the same time, like doing something, just for me, that's not for my job. That's not (Lesley: Yeah) for my group of friends to make them happy that like, for any other re... for my theatre companies, like something that makes me happy. And that's a that's a hard thing to find. Right? That doesn't feel you know, like something that will help move you forward in your life that also isn't like so... Anyway, the what she said ...

Lesley Logan 13:32  

Yeah, I really understand. And I think that that's, I think that it's beca... that's a sometimes you have to play like I'm hobby hunting, if everyone's been listening. The past episodes, like finding what fulfills you is its own, is its own journey.

Clare Solly 13:47  

This cracks me up about you, because I feel like po... like pause on the fulfillment for a second. I mean, it's the same thing. But it's like, you are a hobby hunter like you do all the things you just decide you want to go do something and then you like, learn how to do it and you go do it like an inch, just like ...

Lesley Logan 14:02  

I am doing that. I'm just trying to see like, if they're, you know, like Brad, Brad sits on each week and writes music and like (Clare: Yeah) some people like knit or they do these things and I want something that I do that's not for work and I don't get paid for. And I'm just trying to figure out what that thing is. And I you know, I may turn out to be like I have all the hobbies in the world that I need but I'm on this like mission of like, "What what do I do that's for for fun."

Clare Solly 14:33  

But I feel like every hobby that you've ever had that I've known of you've turned into (Lesley: I know ...) some sort of business ... (Lesley: I can't help myself) I think we talked about this on my episode but like Lesley wave and back in the day and I we made this she she had taken a pair of shoes and decolletage them. And wait, did we? I don't know. (Lesley: I think we both did our own pair). Yeah, we did and like and then we decided to make it into a business (Lesley: Yes.) And like Pilates for or you was a hobby to begin with. And then it became your business and then like ...

Lesley Logan 15:06  

I know and then like coaching and then that became a business and I know. I'm really I'm really am trying to find something that I don't like that I don't I probably end up getting sold who knows you know everything I touch turns to gold whatever. (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 15:22  

Yeah but also like that's all the like the epitome of Be It Till You See It. Right? (Lesley: Yeah.) Like just ... (Lesley: Yeah.)

Lesley Logan 15:30  

Anyways, you know I do I do like the fulfillment thing I think that's worth exploring and something that fulfillment also is gonna give us alignment. And like you can also (Clare: Yeah) like if you're struggling with like, if you think that filling your cup first is narcissistic, then like ask yourself if you're just in alignment or not. Because that might be like the easier route into being a little selfish.

Clare Solly 15:50  

Yeah, well, being selfish isn't a bad thing. (Lesley: No) If you're selfish all the time (Lesley: Yeah.) then it's not good. I mean, anything all the time is not good. 

Lesley Logan 16:00  

Correct! Correct! Okay, well, I love it. That's also true. That's another episode. Okay, what do we got next, Clare?

Clare Solly 16:11  

Um, so we should probably I'm going to take over Brad's role again, and say this, because I've practiced it. So, so my favorite Be It action item was understand what is important for you in a friendship and the deal breakers. Which is that one has been a difficult thing for me, because, like, you know how I love people, I will throw myself into friendships, I'll throw myself into relationships. And, like, you have to figure out what the deal breakers are like. And it can't be that like the small things, right? Like, it can't be like, "Oh my gosh, this person likes tequila and I like rum." Like it's not, you know, I mean, it goes ...

Lesley Logan 16:52  

Go to a regular bar, both people can be happy.

Clare Solly 16:54  

Well like, I had a friend who was a negative talker, like everything this person said, was negative, negative, negative. And they would make fun of themselves. And they would make fun of everybody else. And they were judgmental. And I just felt, and I didn't realize it until later on in the relationship. But I felt a black cloud every time I hung out with this person. And I felt so like, they made me feel really good by making everything else look terrible. And I was like, this is not a good relationship to be in. Because then I found myself getting ready to go hang out with them or talk to them by trying to like, figure out things I could say about other people or things I could like, up my up and myself, like, wear something like really, you know, I don't know, that made me feel really, really good. Because I didn't want to be the ridicule of the evening. And I was I just realized I was like, I don't need to be around this person. Like they're so negative. I'm such a positive person. I'm an upbeat person. I love everybody's snowflake edges. I love encouraging people to do things. And I didn't need to stand around judging them and picking on them. So I (Lesley: Right) just sort of stepped away from that friendship eventually and and walked away.

Lesley Logan 18:16  

I think that's a really important thing. Like if you have, like, this is something that I did when I was trying to figure out like dating, like, what are my deal breakers? Because I was, as we know, because Clare and I had a blog at the time, I was on a mission. I was like, I keep dating the wrong person. So we are trying on different genes. And what are the red flags? And what what are deal breakers for me. And so this is the same thing that goes for friendships, though, like you're in some sort of, you're in an interesting version of a relationship. It's not a marriage necessarily, like legally binding, but like, you know, it is something to understand. And if you find yourself avoiding someone's text, you probably don't be friends with them. You should have a conversation. Let it go. I don't know why as women, we tend to keep people we think we should keep people around like I teach so many women's sessions and every time there's a bachelorette party, there's always like, I don't know why this person's like been around for 17 years as a friend and it's like, oh my God, ladies, let go of the person like have or at least have the honest conversation that says, "Hey, when you do this, it really bothers me." (Clare: Yeah) And then if they can't change that, then that is them. It's not you. You don't have to keep them around for 17 years. Like just know it. So that's (Clare: Yeah) a Be It action item. Everyone should do it. Okay. Especially (Clare: What was your ...) if your ... especially if your friend was making you feel like a dark cloud. Can you imagine like what was keeping you from being every time you had that's like a hangover? (Clare: Yeah) Only have tequila hangovers, only. (Clare laughs)

Clare Solly 19:40  

Well, and definitely, like, understand what you need in a friendship too, right. Like, I think the reason you and I have have have been so successful in our friendship, you know, I coined the phrase, slingshot friend. And again, we don't see each other all the time. We don't talk all the time, but you'll come and you'll be like, "Hey," you'll bounce an idea off of me, or you'll tell me that you're doing something and I'll be like, "Oh my gosh, that's great and amazing." And you head forward with it. And then, like, I'll come to you and say something, and you'll be like, "Oh my gosh, that's great. Here's some resources. Here are 10 podcasts and two books you should read." And ... (Lesley and Clare laughs)

Lesley Logan 20:17  

I have my own library. (Clare: That's why I like you) Oh, my God, I should have a search engine. Maybe that's my new new hobby. (Lesley and Clare laughs) (Clare: Hold on, I don't understand what that means. Let me Lesley Logan it.) Let's do it. And also it would only show good things. Only good things.

Clare Solly 20:36  

I love it. Oh my God. (Lesley and Clare laughs)

Lesley Logan 20:38  

Brad, are you listening? Write that down. Okay ...

Clare Solly 20:41  

Speaking on good things. What was your favorite BE IT action item?

Lesley Logan 20:44  

Okay. My my BE IT action item that I really liked, it's, she said, "Don't be afraid of the light... Don't be afraid of the light to show you great things." And I this made me think of Marianne Williamson. And she, she talks about how most people are actually afraid of their power. So that's why I don't know the exact quote. But there's this whole quote, she's very powerful. Everyone just read it. But basically, she's like, it's most of us like are more comfortable setting in the, in the fear and the and the overwhelm and in a story that we're not good enough. And we're actually afraid because we actually are afraid of stepping into light, we're actually afraid of the power. And I actually think that so many people are looking for signs everywhere. Like if it's a good idea to do this, or good idea to do that and like the light is there. And you're like "hmmm" let me put on some sunglasses on, look over here and see if the answers over here. Because maybe what it's showing you is something that scares you. Maybe it's showing you some of that, like, you're like, "Oh my God," because you have to become something that you're not ... get... guess what, you have to, to keep you growing, you become something you weren't already. So I just really, I thought that was a really lovely BE IT action item. And I haven't heard that from anybody, in any (Clare: Yeah) other version. So I just really liked. I like ...

Clare Solly 22:01  

Yeah, well, and I like at the time we're recording this. I'm living that right now. Like I have two options, two very clear options in front of me. And you and I've talked a lot this week. And like you've been, you know, I've been bouncing off of you between these two options. And it's, it's now very clear which one to take. Because even though it's the one that I'm a little more afraid of, because the other one hasn't is not showing up as much as I want it to. And this one is very much like, "Hello, I'm here." And it's still like here, we're paving the way keep coming ...

Lesley Logan 22:35  

Yeah. Come to the light, everyone comes. You know (Clare: Yeah) like do you remember? Is it a bug's life? Like all the bugs are they don't, they're like, are like, "It's so powerful. It's the glow." Like bugs are literally going to the light and all of us are like, "No, no." But like in the opposite effect. The light is not a zapper, the light is actually like the showing you where the next step is.

Clare Solly 22:56  

Yeah, well, and it's weird too, because we sit around and we think that we're not deserving of things. And we, like I know, oh, that was the thing I was gonna think of earlier. I've lived in such a chaotic world for so long that if if my world isn't chaotic, I will create the drama. Like I will, I will bring up drama in my life just because I understand how to how to survive and drama. And it's like, no, no, you can just stand in the light and enjoy it. Like you can go stand outside in the sunshine and enjoy it. You can you can be, you can take the choice that is very obvious. And it's it's fine.

Lesley Logan 23:05  

Yeah, (Clare: And that was ...) I hear you because I think everyone listen to this. Like maybe you too are like, "Oh, that's me." If you're someone who's like Clare that like the chaos and the drama is actually something that feels more comfortable. Go back to last week's episode, we had Clare and ask yourself like, where did you learn that chaos and drama were actually safe and fun and enjoyable? And try to unpack that. And maybe you do that with a therapist, or maybe you do the journaling. And she'll teach you... Clare had a great point about journaling in the last episode ... (Clare laughs) So um, yeah, I think that's really great. So Clare, thank you for being here for two weeks in a row. We have you back for one more recap while we're recording things and Brad is gone. But before I let you go, two things, you have a tip on tulips?

Clare Solly 24:20  

Yes, I do. So tulips. So if you take your vase or whatever you have and you take just generic clear tape and you make a grid with it across so you do like a back ... (Lesley: Oh) and put a stripe across and a stripe across, the stripe across and then you do it the opposite way. And you can, the skinnier tape is better just scotch tape. That's what it is. Scotch tape. The skinnier like three quarters of an inch is better. And just leave yourself little holes in there to put the tulips in and then just make sure you also tape around the outside of the vase to keep all of those those tapes down (Lesley: ... yeah) and then that will create little holes in the vase (Lesley: Yeah) to put the flowers in and that will keep them upright. I mean it's still going to kind of do the wilty thing on you but that will keep them in ...

Lesley Logan 25:16  

So I thought you want to talk about sprite because if you put sprite in the water, tulips love it, apparently like something with sugar. (Clare: Yeah) So if you do sprite and her grid I think your tulips are gonna look phenomenal for Mother's Day. (Clare and Lesley laughs) (Clare: Here you go) Here we are just making new flower segments on the Be It Till You See It podcast. (Clare: So you too can be a flower arranger.) I actually that is on my hobby hunting list, by the way is to go to to watch a flower arranging class ... (Clare: Be like that would be a good one for you.) I think it is so fun. Actually in town, there is a place where you take you do do flower arranging both real and both dried. (Clare: Yeah) And it's by the way, it's they don't sponsor the show. It's called Tiny Bloom. If you're in Las Vegas, go check them out that Ferguson's downtown shop local. Anyways, but I really I think I'm excited about that. So everyone thank you for letting Clare be a guest for Brad if you have liked her being a guest you should also just let us know. Do you want other guests in for Brad? Are you are you missing Brad to this be ... (Clare: Probably you pick me) Is it is truffle? It's a truffle. Like a nonsexual truffle. (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 26:26  

I would totally be a potty truffle with you. (Clare laughs)

Lesley Logan 26:30  

Oh my God. The time were in Spain we had to share a bed with one of my girlfriends also married and so I'm asleep in the middle and I pee like at least two times a night and I my bladder was going to explode. Everyone my dogs are not okay with this whole recording without Brad situation. So in the episodes if you're moaning, moaning, groaning, whining, flapping or what's happening on that door, they are perfectly fine. Do not call rescue. We have got there more than comfortable. She is just wanting to go out. So I'm Lesley Logan. (Lesley laughs) (Clare: I'm Clare Solly.) (Clare laughs) Thank you so much. How are you going to use these tips in your life today? Like what are you going to do? What's your favorite BE IT action item and tag us. Tag @youwontbesolly which is Clare, the @be_it_pod. And also Laurie Jabbar, @shesa10times5 on the BE IT action that you're gonna do or the talking point that reflected the most on you, and then share it to your Instagram account or send it to a friend. You have no idea how amazing it is if you send to a friend, you are this podcast because it does help us grow, one lesson at a time. And with that, you should Be It Till You See It because I gotta let Gaia out. (Lesley laughs) Thanks, everyone.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 28:19  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 28:30  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 28:35  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 28:43  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all videos each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 28:56  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Everything from West Point to friendships to seizing new opportunities. Laurie Jabbar brings to life how her fireside chats with friends transformed to a co-hosted podcast and the reality of navigating the next step.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• An opportunistic path to success
• Finding your path through the failures
• Great friends vs life friends 
• Don't Drop the Ball on Title IX
• Pilates in the metaverse
• Embrace the light to see great things happen 

Episode References/Links:

• Instagram
• Don’t Drop The Ball On Title IX
• She’s a 10 Times 5 Podcast

Guest Bio:

Laurie Jabbar is one of the co-hosts for the thriving podcast "She's a 10 Times 5." Launched in the beginning of 2021 with the goal of helping women navigate their "second acts," by rediscovering their purpose and recognizing the many amazing opportunities that come with a new chapter in life. Their listeners are looking for a sense of sisterhood when they tune in, and a feeling they are hanging out around a fire with a glass (or two) of wine with their girlfriends. The podcast has been featured in "Ask Us Beauty" magazine as "Media We Love," and the She's a 10 girls and their inspiring guests share the good, bad and ugly while lifting one another up.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Hey, Be It babes. Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It podcast. Hello, how are you I got a great, amazing guest for you and she is, she is fire, she is salty. She is a world of knowledge. Honestly, she's lived many, many lives. And you'll hear her even say she's a cat, she's got nine lives. And I love that because I do, I do want to make sure you hear stories from different people whose lives are not linear. And who have have have failed at things and gotten back up and who've lived lives and have had tough conversations. And so this week's guest is really going to zero in on some of those things about failure and about conversations and relationships and boundaries. And I'm really excited for you to hear it. She is also an amazing, one of the amazing two hosts of the She's a 10 Times 5 Podcast. And I really love, I love their podcasts, I find their guests really fun to listen to. And so I hope that this just gives you a little taste of who they are and what they're up to. And, you know, take a listen, take some notes, listen to her BE IT action at the end. It's one of my favorites. And actually, I'd recently heard a very similar way that and that being spoken and I think it's true. I think it's so true. And I'm not gonna tell you what it is until you listen to the end. And I'd love to hear from you afterwards. I'd love to hear from you about the fear that you might be facing. So I know that scary. It's something that we did at our Pilates business retreat we made everyone tell each person in the group what they're afraid of. But if you, I won't blast it, we don't have to share it on the on the socials. But I'm just telling you if you actually acknowledge what you're afraid of and you say it out loud, it takes a lot of the power away, it really really does. And so with that being said I want to get into this amazing interview with Laurie because she is just a delight and she is a woman to not like to who you would probably want to be on your best friends and depending on who you are and where you live that might be impossible. So take a listen and then let us know how you are you using her advice, her tips, her BE IT action is on your life. Tag She's a 10 Times 5, tag to @be_it_pod and let us know. And here's Laurie.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

All right, Be It listeners I have I mean, she really is the one and only Laurie Jabbar here and she is one half of a hot podcast couple it, couplet - She's a 10 Times 5. We met because of being in the same magazine together, which is just so fun how things worked out. There's divine appointments for all of us. And she has an incredible story. I got to listen to all of it. On one of the episodes, they had over at a She's a 10 Times 5. And I just, it's it's inspirational. And it just shows that like life is not linear. So Laurie, thanks for being here. Tell everyone who you are and what you're doing when you're you know, when you're in your home in San Diego, live in life.

Laurie Jabbar 3:40  

Live in life. Yeah. While you was a saying that, you know, I just got back from Texas visiting my son at Texas Christian for moms weekend. So it's good to be home. But I'm you know, I'm in recovery mode. No doubt about it. (Lesley laughs) I can't keep up with those young men. So I, yes, I live down in San Diego and I am part of a duo called She's a 10 Times 5 and it's a podcast. But more than that, it has been an amazing platform to really support women and meet new women. And just like you said, serendipitously we're in the same magazine, which is a fabulous magazine. I just love it's everything about sisterhood. I got to meet you (Lesley: I know...) and here we are. We're gonna chop it up today.

Lesley Logan 4:24  

We are, we are. Everyone it's Ask Us Beauty. We'll put the link in the show notes. But I got a bunch of issues of it because of course I have to frame the article. And then I wanted us to have it out. So people go, "Oh, wait, that's you." It's like, "Yes, that's me." (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 4:38  

Yeah, that was a great issue. They had some really great interviews in that magazine. And I'm not a magazine person, but I read it cover to cover just because of the stories, they were so great.

Lesley Logan 4:47  

They're so great. So okay, um, your podcast ... now but is like, how did that become a thing? How did you go. "I'm gonna do a podcast." How like, what were you doing before that, that made that even a thing in your ideas.

Laurie Jabbar 5:03  

Well, I turned 50 in 2019, August 30th. I'm a Virgo. If you listen, you'll know. So, I, it wasn't a great birthday for me. For some reason, I absolutely dreaded the idea of becoming half a century old. There you have it, right. So ...

Lesley Logan 5:20  

... the other way did describe it. (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 5:22  

No, no. And everyone thought I was going to have this fantastical, phenomenal 50th birthday party because we do throw good parties at our house or that were that family. And I just was like, "No, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it." And instead, I pivoted and did 50 random acts of kindness, which was amazing. If you ever have a chance to do that. It's it'll warm your heart and it does have halo effect. And I started a group called the Fireside Chatters. And it was a group of ladies that we have raised our kids together, we have stood shoulder to shoulder, we lock arms, we can tell secrets, we're all a vault. And I said, "You know what, I want to start this group chat. And it's going to be called the Fireside Chatter." So the idea is that what would we really be talking about with a glass of wine in our hand (Lesley: Yeah) sitting next to a fireplace, or a fire pit. And it wouldn't be the bullshit that you see on social media. It would be you know, "My husband's an asshole today. I'm worried about my kids. One's going sideways, the other ones." So we started this group and then flash forward to 2020 the pandemic hit. And this group chat went into friggin overdrive. (Lesley: Yeah) I mean, we were on that thing 20 times a day lifting each other up, laughing, someone would say, "I'm having a hard day" which would prompt a call from someone. It really became like this virtual ...

Lesley Logan 6:45  

Was this only got a text chain? Was it like in a WhatsApp group? Like when did you just like just or did just like you're all 50, so you're just a regular text messages?

Laurie Jabbar 6:54  

Regular texting ... (Lesley laughs) Yes, we're old. Yeah. Yeah. And it became this virtual oasis of sisterhood. And we it was such a blessing and two months into the pandemic, I was on a walk. Well, what's really funny is, it was called the Fireside Chatters and then evolved into the Salty Fireside Chatters. And then the Salty Manic Fireside Chatters. And then we just became the Salties. And everyone would talk about the Salty Group. It was just, it was (Lesley: Okay) hilarious.

Lesley Logan 7:24  

So so it's at the top of the texting just ... you know, just kept changing the name on the top of the text. (Laurie: Yup) I love this. I love it. I also do think the Salties is like a really great name for any group. I feel like you guys should be a band. (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 7:39  

Well, that's, that's in the works. I'm kidding. (Lesley laughs) If you heard me sing which I sing a lot. I'm a songbird, you don't want me to start a band. But so I was on a walk with one of the Salties and I'm like, "When, we get out of this shit. You know, we had to do something with our lives. This is the new front nine, not the back nine, you know, if nothing else that we learned from this whole quarantine and pandemic is that we got a we all live." (Lesley: Yeah) And so she's like, "You know what?" She goes, "You need to do something with this whole thing." And she encouraged me to do podcast. And so that's what I did. (Lesley: I love...) And here we are ...

Lesley Logan 8:13  

I love it. Thanks for taking us on that journey. I I think we've had a couple other guests, women groups, and they talked about, like, the importance of a sisterhood. And I think like, no matter how evolved, technology gets or we think we get as human beings. That entire like we used to be in tribes of women spending time together, taking care of each other, there was like women whose jobs were to take care of the women who are having their cycle and there was women whose jobs would take care of the babies so that the mom could... Like there was all these things that we did to support each other and now we just put each other in our own houses with our own things and we're like, "You should be able to handle that. No problem just like do it up". So, I love that you create, like recreated that. And that it it really led you to doing this podcast and you do it with a lovely co partner.

Laurie Jabbar 9:02  

Yes, Lisa O'Coyne. And we, it's what's really great is our two youngest are seniors in high school and there she has three girls, I have two boys and our youngest, their best of friends. In fact, we're get... we're going to have them on our podcast, just to talk about this empty nester thing. And then her two older girls are at Texas Christian. (Lesley: Oh, where your son is?) Yeah, so we have this, yeah, we have all these things and and we have a really good time. And I think you know, when you do a podcast with with another guest or another host, I think you really have to find the yin to your yang. So and we've done that, you know, (Lesley laughs) I'm the spicy meatball, and she's the warm voice of reason. So it's it's been a blast.

Lesley Logan 9:46  

I think that's true for anything, I think, I mean, you have many businesses, so we could probably talk about that too. But like, because I work with my husband. People are like, "Oh my gosh, like what like what do you think that, how does that how do you do that?" Like, "Well, we're very different." (Lesley laughs) (Laurie: Yeah) Like, like we and it's gonna be very challenging because like, it's you want it to be done the way that you want to be done, but also they challenge you to get out of your comfort zone or to either lift, you know, tone it down or lift it up or, or clarify in a different way. I think it could be really good. So, I can't believe you guys have all those things in common. It's like, are you neighbors too? (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 10:22  

We'd live a stones throw? Yes. Yeah. Well, it's interesting you say that about your husband, because I was married to exactly the kind of guy you would think I would be married to. And we were college sweethearts. And we got married right out of the West Point Military Academy. And I was stationed in one place in Germany, and he was stationed in a place, but we were so much alike, that I think we just collectively agreed we made great friends. But you know, the marriage just, you know, and then I ended up marrying someone that is completely my opposite and it works. It just works.

Lesley Logan 10:55  

So let's talk about that because you you just mentioned that you went to West Point. And I think a lot of people listening here might have heard of it, but might not know what it means. Can you talk about like, is that something you always wanted to do? Was that like on your like, list, as a high schooler, "I want to go to West Point for College," or was that just something that you thought you could do? What was ...

Laurie Jabbar 11:14  

... no fucking way did I have that in my plan. I was a class clown. I was the free spirit. And, and so basically, how that evolved was, I was recruited athlete. I really, really wanted to go to Stanford. I was getting my sophomore year was my, it was my year. And I went through some personal stuff. But that was my year that I really got on the radar with track and field and cross country and I got injured. And so it's coming back off a stress fracture, I just kind of was never the same runner. So the Stanford ticket was not going to be an option for me. So I went to Plan B and I met these guys. And they said, "You should go to West Point." And I had no idea what it was, I saw video and I go, "Well, that's really cool. And oh, by the way, it's free." And literally, none of my family were military. So it was really kind of out of left field that I did that. But it was kind of an it was God's plan for me to go basically, yeah.

Lesley Logan 12:17  

Yeah, yeah, that's it's kind of that's, um, that's how you know that there's like something out there that's like, kind of planning it out for us. Because how would those people have like entered your lives, you know, you'd have no one else in your family who's like, "You should be doing this, or this is what we do or here's an idea," you know, that like those random meetings that are actually so perfect. You know, I was across country and hike and track runner, not as good to Stan... no one in California was looking at me. I retired (Lesley laughs) my senior year, I was like, "You know what, since I'm not going to get a scholarship, I think I'm gonna take a break from all this running thing." And I ended up picking it back up in my 20s. And because of Pilates, I ended up with so few injuries, I have none, no problems from running at all. But I ran ... I won the Los Angeles City half marathon. And I thought, "Oh my gosh, maybe this is maybe now, I'm peaking. Maybe this is the time, I should get (Laurie: there you go) back into running. And then and then I actually got really happy and I really liked my life. And my time started getting slower and slower and slower. And I was like, "No, I think I was just really unhappy, then I think just running off (Laurie: You were angry) stress and anger." (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 13:24  

Yeah. Yeah, you were. Well ...

Lesley Logan 13:26  

So what ... So let's talk so after West Point, like, what did you do? Because you're so you had fif... you're over 50 now, which I mean, who counts the two years of the pandemic, (Laurie: Stop it) so you're 50. (Lesley laughs) But like, what did you, you know, you have this whole life and you've had now two marriages, and you have these amazing kids and you've got this podcast. And what is it that you really sought, like, is any of it planned out? Or was it all kind of like, "I'm interested in this now and now I'm doing this." Like, what, how did you, how did you take yourself from West Point to where you are today?

Laurie Jabbar 14:00  

Well, first of all, I was one of the first female graduating classes. So it was no easy track, and especially with my personality type. So getting through the gauntlet of the military academy, you, the rigor, the academics, all of it, it kind of gave me like a little bit of a steel exterior, like I can take on anything, you know, throw it at me babe. And so when I got out of the military, I decided to do something totally foreign and very opposing to the training I got, which was high tech. Because, you know, that was, you know, as I moved to the Bay Area, I started working in the consulting realm and working with all of these emerging, rad, free thinking people and companies and there were no rules. And so you take me out of the constructs of the military academy and then being a captain in the military, right, where I have people enter, and now I'm in like the wild west of the high tech world. So long way midway to answer your question is, I think that I have been very opportunistic. So I don't think that there's ever been really a plan, I see something. And a lot of times just take a leap of faith based on I'll figure it out, I can do it. And I do think it's really important. And I tell this to my kids all the time, "You have to love what you do," you know, we get, we get on this pathway of what is success, and some people define it financially. And some people, you know, define it through their egos or whatever. But if you're, if you're not doing something that you're happy about, I just don't think you find success. (Lesley: Yeah) I think it's, I think you chase, you chase something that you never get to be able to grab hold of that tail. So that's kind of what I did, I have I've always led my life with my heart. And if I see something I'm feel passionate about I I tend to want to lean 100% in.

Lesley Logan 15:53  

Yes. So I couldn't agree more. I love that that kind of definition of success, because you can have multiple successes in your life. But the leaping part I get, I love to leap, I actually find it, it's like exhilarating, scary, freeing, all at the same time. I think that's where people get stuck. What do you tell yourself before you leap? Like, is there a is there a thing you tell yourself? Is it because of like that you could take this class clown and put her in West Point and she can become a captain? Like, is it because of that experience? Or is there something you say to yourself before you leap?

Laurie Jabbar 16:27  

Well, you know, my husband says it. And then I try to say it. Because I said earlier, I'm a Virgo, so I am a little bit OCD. So I'm not completely ready fire aim. But what's the worst that can happen? And you have to weigh those, you have to weigh it. "What is the worst that can happen? Am I gonna hurt someone. Am I going to lose my livelihood? Am I going to be embarrassed." And so if it's, if it nets down to just, you know, I'm being afraid of failure, I just say, "fuck it." You know, because failure, failure is one of the best things that you can go through. Because nine times out of 10 you fail at something, you hit that brick wall and whatever you find out who your people are, because they're there to dust you off and pick you up and two, you know, normally find like, "Okay, that that didn't work out but there's there's a secondary plan B and pathway for me." And so I I'm all about like a couple failures under your belt. And I think it's a great thing.

Lesley Logan 17:23  

I couldn't agree. I as a recovering perfectionist, what I have discovered is like every time I fail like ...

Laurie Jabbar 17:30  

Recovering? Let's be honest. (Lesley: Recovering) Come on. (Lesley: Yeah) Recovering, you know, you did a long way to go when your recovery, (Lesley: Yeah) you are perfectionist and I love it.

Lesley Logan 17:39  

... when you're but I think it's like you'll always, I'm always going to be a recovering perfectionist because like, I think to actually be recovered might be my perfectionist going, "See we did it." (Lesley laughs) But recovering perfectionist, recovering overachiever. I have, of course failure seeing and they get a little frustrating. But there is something really unique about especially with your work for yourself being able to go, "Okay, what did we do there? What can we learn here? How do we strike? How do we try again?" And if you work for a company, I mean, hopefully there's a team that does that they, you know, usually do that. But I find that like, once you get a few failures, as you mentioned, they sting less, and they become a little bit more welcome. There's like a little bit more of like, "Oh, okay, I'm gonna learn something for this. I'm gonna meet people, I'm gonna have to collaborate differently." Definitely keeps things spicy, because you're not doing the same thing all the time if you're failing a little bit here and there.

Laurie Jabbar 18:32  

Yeah, I know, I tell my kids because you know, you, they only hear about the successes. And I try to remind them, God, I've got a whole world of mistakes and things, you know, we're all human. And me, no, but you know, they're living in an age. And I think, you know, we're all living in an age where everything is out there for consumption by and in large. And we tend to only share the highlight reels. So we don't really get to relate to the side of failure that is so very important. So that's, you know, it's a shame, I think that we have to present this image that we always are on and, you know, everything's okay. And our relationships are perfect. And it's all a bunch of horseshit, you know.

Lesley Logan 19:18  

Yeah. Well, it is, and it's, and it's true, because if you were to put out all the thoughts that happened during the day. A lot of people be like, "Wow, she's just like me," and other people would be like, "Knew it. Spotted it." (Lesley laughs) (Laurie: Yup. Yeah) And it's, and it is, so it is hard to feel safe that you can do that. I find like, what I like about podcasting that's different than social media is that you can have those honest conversations and you can also share the highlights. You can also have the bio and you can also have the things and you can be a whole person and it is easier to have it in a context that like makes it all, make sense as opposed to like, "This morning I really didn't like today. I didn't like the day at all." I was like, "Why am I up? What is happening?" (Lesley laughs) But by the (Laurie: Yeah) end of the day, you know, so I think it's really, I think it's important. I think that for those who have kids like sharing that with them is also very important. But also, I think just reminding ourselves that it's not about that. How do you and Lisa do that? Is it because you have kids you are able to remind yourselves constantly? Or is it is it some, like some sort of practice that you do that, like not everything is the highlights you're seeing?

Laurie Jabbar 20:21  

Well, I think by bringing on really great guests that want to tell their story. I think gives us a sense of community and confidence that, "Okay, we're all a little bit messy." That is something I didn't anticipate. One is that, I think women our age, and our generation, you know, I think we weren't really kept secrets close to the chest, we were told, we don't talk about those things. And now I think we're at a point in our lives, where we recognize missed opportunities. And so we're more apt to share our story and put it out there and support one another through that. So I think, you know, having these vulnerable discussions, I think, has inspired us to also go in that direction and feel confident with doing it as well.

Lesley Logan 21:14  

Yeah. And also, like, going back to what you and your husband say is like, what what's the worst that could happen if you share the story like ...

Laurie Jabbar 21:21  

Your kids disown you ...

Lesley Logan 21:24  

I mean, it sounds like it's cheaper if they do that. Right? (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 21:27  

Yeah, thank you. After this weekend, yes. You know what that, that is a that is a valid point because I do think one of the things too, as, as women, with if you have kids, I think that definitely weighs into our lens as well, because I think we do have this innate mama bear pressure to, you know, not embarrassed them, or, you know, you don't want their judgment and you want them to be proud of you. And, you know, there's going to be some things that, you know, in this podcast is one of them. I think it took my youngest a really long time to get his arms around. And he's like, "What are you doing? Why are you talking about those things?" And now, it's like, he's like, "Okay, this is cool." You know, so, but (Lesley: Yeah) I do think that that's a roadblock for a lot of women is like, you know.

Lesley Logan 22:11  

I think you're right, I want to like, like, as I think about people, being it until they see it, as like women taking a hold or whatever they want to be or acting like the person they want to be. I do I think whether you have kids or just people in your family, like I do think that the opinion of others holds us back on, on on showing up the way we want to show up because, well, "What if our kids are gonna say? What are our parents gonna say? Like, what our family's gonna say?" Was that a conversation you had to have with your kids? Like, "I'm doing this anyways and it's probably going to embarrass you."

Laurie Jabbar 22:45  

Um, no. (Lesley laughs) Well, my oldest was he he's off at college, but my youngest, you know, because the Studio 50 is actually at my house. And so we had discussions and whatnot. And we've had some pretty provocative topics. And I will tell them, I'm like, "This is one you don't want to listen to. Like, don't even listen to the video sound btye because it's going to," you know.

Lesley Logan 23:06  

Did they listen to the cougar episode? (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 23:10  

... I hope not. No, we released one today, which, which is about non monogamous relationships. And that's another one I kind of hope they stay clear of. (Lesley laughs) But, but you know, yeah, I so I, I think I think it was when we got the support of our friends, to, to do something. You know, that that was another meaningful way. And I think if you surround yourself, I always say, "the air you breathe in as the air you breathe out." And if you're bringing, you know, positive, you know, vibrations and relationships to the table with you, then it just makes everything more easy.

Lesley Logan 23:49  

Yeah, it's true. I mean, it... the we have to no matter what our ages, we have to be watching the people we surround ourselves with, because it is true, like their thoughts on things, their drive on things, their worry, and it all becomes something that's part of you and your orbit and your opinion of what you can do and what's possible. And it's, it's interesting, I find easy for me, I moved out of high school, I moved right after high school, and then I moved out after college. And so like, I've always I've spent a life of creating friendships that fulfill my life. And if I'm with the place I live is no longer fulfilling. I move and some people come with me, and some people don't. But I do find a lot of people have a hard time letting go of certain family members, obviously, it's family and friendships that have been around for a long time. Was that is that something you had to learn how to let go of? Is that something you've just like kind of figured out a way to like, what do you show there versus what you show other people? What is, what is your method to making sure you can show up fully?

Laurie Jabbar 24:51  

That is such a great question that actually I had a discussion with another mom this weekend. I think that I've learned two things. One is that your great friends are always there for you, in the time of need. Your lifers are there in your time and need, and they're your cheerleader. It's not always easy for people to be happy for success. And I've learned that, you know, you do have those friends that they, there, they're just happy when things are going well. And they're the first ones to say, atta girl and cheer you on. So I think what I have done very successfully over the past few years, and not my whole life, and let me tell you, is understanding what's important for me in a relationship. And, and then what are my deal breakers? You know, because we are all flawed, and no relationship is perfect, right? But there are certain things that I've come to recognize, "Okay, that is a deal breaker for me." And being able to remove, you know, set those boundaries and remove that energy out of my life. And it's not an easy thing to do, especially if it's been a long standing relationship. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah. (Lesley: Yeah) So yeah, like, you know, you have to be honest, and I think that's what I've been, over the past few years, I think when I've had things go maybe sideways, or experiences not gone well, in a relationship, it's probably because I'm not honest with myself or that individual, whether it's a family member or a friend, where you know, you kind of stuff your feelings down, you don't confront things. And what I've really tried to do, and also encourage my friends to do is, "Okay, we... be honest about it. If this is bugging you, let's like talk about it, let's chop it up, let's figure it out. And, and when you do that, and you don't stuff it down," because it tends to come out in passive aggressive ways, right, if you do that. And so, yeah, so being honest, is for me, is a number one.

Lesley Logan 26:55  

Yeah. And I think that requires like being honest with yourself. So I love that you talked about like, getting to know like, what matters to you and what your deal breakers are? Because then it might be difficult to be honest with someone else if you're, like, unsure of why this is bothering you. So I do think some self exploration and understanding and, and having those tough conversations, I think, you know. I think it's Tim Ferriss, we've talked about this before on the podcast, but like, you know, your success is like correlated to the amount of tough conversations you'll have. And I don't think it's a success in business. I think it's success in life. Like if you're really wanting to have deep meaningful relationships, there's going to be like actual conversations you have to have or share with someone to have that kind of closeness and have and make sure that they're on the same page as you when it comes to some things because they might not even know that they're hurting your feelings, because they didn't know that that was a deal breaker for you.

Laurie Jabbar 27:39  

Yeah, you know, it's, I'm a salesperson, Biz.. biz, dev, sales through and through. And I always tell people, the best salespeople, listen. You know what I'm saying? Like they, they we all assume that they're, they're the talkers, the Jerry Maguire, is that work the room and there is a little bit of that. But when you listen, and when you listen in relationships, and you're an active listener, I think that it's a very, very powerful asset to have. So, you know, I really try to listen to my friends and my family and take the step back and absorb. And, you know, there's been so, it's been such a crazy time in the world where I think we're so half cocked, and we judge and you know, but if you sit back and try to listen, and then understand, you're going to have far more powerful and positive relationships with people.

Lesley Logan 28:34  

Yeah. I think that's it, that is, that is something we need to be doing always in life. And I don't know that we're taught how to listen a lot when we're younger, like you're listening in school all day. (Laurie: Yeah) You're not, you're not really like taught to listen, and then you come home from school. And like you tell people like, "This is what my day was like." And so there's just not a lot of that night. I think you're it's not just in sales, but you can really hear what's going on with a friend, if you actually just listen to her, say the day, say what was (Laurie: Yeah) going on her day, because you'll start to you'll the thing that she does, like kind of over, she's mentioned it but she flipped right over it. That's the thing. She's just like dabbling it out there to see if you are going to catch on and talk about it. And she might not even know she's doing it consciously, you know, so.

Laurie Jabbar 29:15  

You know, sometimes it's just a matter of, you get a vibe, if you pay attention, you get a vibe and asking the question, "Is everything... talk to me. Is there something you want to talk about? Do you want to..." You know, I tend to do that a lot. And, and I'm a sponge for emotion, so I have to be careful. Right. You know, the only the other thing I wanted to say is that, you know, well, the kind of circling around this confrontation (Lesley: Mm-hmm) topic. Right? So you listen, and you'd be honest with yourself and others and that means confrontation at times and confrontation is not always a bad thing. You know, confronting the way you feel, confronting a situation with that transparency. You just got to know whether or not the confrontation has you got to go in with it? There's a reason why you're doing it. Because sometimes it's it's not even worth confronting. (Lesley: Right) You know, that's the other thing is like, that's not a deal breaker or that's not like, I'm not even going to confront. Yes, she bugged me, you know, because she had too many cocktails or whatever. But that's not a deal breaker for me, you know. Right? (Lesley: Right) Sometimes gonna confront because that's just who she is. And then, yeah, so.

Lesley Logan 30:24  

Yeah, I think you're, I think I love the brought up, it's not confrontations, always a bad thing. And also, like, you got to know what you want out of it. Because otherwise, you could just be practicing confrontation for the sake of it. And you know, that doesn't always solve any problems or make you feel better. You know, um, what came to my mind? aaahhh. Well, I was thinking, as you talk about these conversations, and these questions that you ask people, is it this is gonna sound obviously, this the perfectionist. I mean, but it's really for the listener. So you said the question, "Is everything all right?" Are there other questions that people are like, "I want to be a better listener, I want to I want to help like, listen to my friends more." Or there are other questions that you asked that kind of fall on that line that they could just put in their little notepad so they can practice being better listeners?

Laurie Jabbar 31:14  

Well, I was trying to get someone to call me back and she just was begging me and blowing me off. This is a friend of mine. And so I left her voicemail. And I said, I said, "Listen, I said, I'm in jail. And I need someone to bail me out. And I'm in your zip code. I really need you to call me." And I did my best acting like I was Sally Field. Okay. Like, it was Oscar worthy performance on the voicemail. And no, I'm kidding. (Lesley laughs) You know, I think it just depends on what relation, I think you just did the asking the questions and being in tune with tone. And, you know, you can't do that overtax your email, and I, like, literally, I'm one of those people, I'm so old school where, let's just get on the fucking phone. Like, I can't, I don't know where this is coming from. And so I think that, you know, taking that time, and you know, we were also busy, you know, we're on the little, we're on the hamster wheel all the time. But sometimes we just have to stop and pick up the phone and have the conversation or invite someone, you know, out to a coffee or a walk or whatever.

Lesley Logan 32:19  

Yeah, I like that. I like this, even inviting them on the partisan that you're already doing so that you can have that talk. And we are also busy. But we're all always so busy. And we were busy during a pandemic, when we're supposed to be sitting at home. Like somehow we were still busy there. So I think like the, you know, anything I've learned about the last two years, it's like, you make time for what matters. And if you don't, then it, it didn't really matter to you. And if it really does, then you have some self exploration to do because I couldn't believe how busy I got sitting still. (Lesley laughs) You know, as I used to get more done when I traveled on a plane every week than I am right now. So (Laurie: Yeah) so Laurie, you are incredible. And you're you've lived some incredible lives and some amazing things. Is there ... (Laurie: I'm a cat.) (Lesley laughs) (Laurie: I've got 9 lives.) Are you, is there something that you are focusing on right now? Like, is there what is like the next step that you're trying to be it till you see it? Like, what are you acting, not even having to act as if it's not faking it? But like, what is it that you're working on right now? Is it with Lisa and the podcast? Is it something else that you're trying to do? Is there something you're exploring and learning so you can do that thing?

Laurie Jabbar 33:26  

You just teed me up for something fantastical. Thank you for that. So I was, you know, we talked about being a college, you know, recruited runner and I had gone through the death of my mom and my, my family just kind of was circling the drain a little bit. So the financial components to my college decision was at the top of the list. I like to joke and say, "I went to West Point" because it was 10 to one male female ratio, and I like to blow shit up. But the fact is, I went because it was free. With that being said, there is this thing called Title IX, okay. And I was blown away to find out that this is the 50th anniversary of Title IX. It's been around 50 friggin years. (Lesley: Wow) And I found that out because Billie Jean King who has always been the woman from the, you know, way back when that has carried the flag, charge the hill for all of us, other women. And, you know, so what we're doing is we are partnering, she's a ten and I put together I call them the Dream Team, a bunch of ladies that really believe in the importance of Title IX, and the financial, educational and sports that it supports. So we are launching on the last day Women's History Month. Okay, this is our pay it forward. March 31st. We are going to announce a campaign, a viral campaign. She's a 10 Times 5 supports 50 years of Title IX. And the campaign is called, Don't Drop the Ball on Title IX. And it's going to be fun and it's going to be building awareness. And we get to partner with amazing organizations and, you know. Hopefully ...

Lesley Logan 35:14  

This is so fun. Are you guys, I know you're not doing like the reels and stuff that I feel like each person could be like throwing a ball.

Laurie Jabbar 35:21  

That's exactly what's gonna happen. (Lesley: Oh, I love. I love.) So so the viral campaign is literally catching a ball of your choice, saying, "Don't drop the ball on Title IX" and passing it to someone and challenging them. And the idea really, is to build awareness for the Billie Jean King organization and the Women's Sports Foundation, and Title IX, because a lot of people don't really even know that it exists. If you haven't ... Yeah, if you have a daughter ...

Lesley Logan 35:50  

... or misconceptions about like, what it does or what it's done. And I think like, if you've, if you have a daughter then you are aware of Title IX.

Laurie Jabbar 35:57  

Yeah. Or if you are an athlete, you know, or if you're just in tune with stuff, but I was at the pickleball court, and I was telling everyone, I'm like, "I'm going to do this challenge and I'm going to build awareness," because, you know, this is important. And, you know, we need to be giving light to some of these things. And, you know, having people lean in, and they're like, "What the hell are you talking about? And I said, "Title IX, goddamnit, it's 50 years," and not one of the 10 women knew what Title IX was. So hopefully, this will inspire people to, you know, learn about it, you know, and support it.

Lesley Logan 36:30  

Yeah, I agree. And I, um, you know, I think especially women in sports, it's really powerful to see, I mean, watching women's soccer team fight for their rights to get paid. And my father and I go to the WNBA, here in Vegas, I love it, it's so much fun. And I just think that like, there's so much more we can do to grow. Because if women's sports, were getting half the attention that men's sports did in marketing, we would be having different conversation that people would know what this Title IX is, and there, there'd be a lot more and, and the truth is, they get such a small, small, small percentage of the marketing and they have some of the most amazing athletes on those female teams, both professional and collegiately. So I think it's really cool. I want to I want to hear more about it. And, and we'll we'll have to make sure that our podcast shares what you're posting on our on our feed as well.

Laurie Jabbar 37:21  

Well, that's not even an option, I will be stalking you. (Lesley laughs)

Lesley Logan 37:25  

I'm good. I'm so happy, I'm so happy about that. Oh, my God, well, that's so fun. I love it. So thank you for sharing that because what I love about it so much as it's like a thing that you're doing for a purpose, for a time period. And I do think sometimes we think that whatever we have to do has to be this lifelong thing, it has to become something really huge and really big. And it can be something you're doing for a set period of time to really spread the word about something you're passionate about. And so I think that's really cool.

Laurie Jabbar 37:53  

Yeah, and using the platform to do it, you know, we've got, you know, a very vibrant, you know, guests that we've had, and this is right in the wheelhouse of women supporting women. So it's kind of in line with our brand. And so if we can use our brand to do, you know, share good, you know, (Lesley: Yeah) ought to do it, right?

Lesley Logan 38:12  

Well, and I think the more the more people who see people doing that, and it gets ideas to get ideas, right, so then that can like spawn the next thing, and then more people can be doing it. And so the next year, there could be for the 51st anniversary, it could be even more, but hopefully, it just we have a whole year to celebrate that 50th. And so maybe this could be the first of many things that is done to bring attention to that. And I do think like, you know, when you have a brand, there are things that can be passionate about as a brand. And using and using those passions and using your brand to bring attention to it is something we all can do.

Laurie Jabbar 38:43  

Yeah. Well, you know, it's kind of Women's History Month. It's kind of a shame. You know, it's it's a month of observance, but it's really nebulous, like, what is it? You know, we all posted on Women's International Day because, you know, but then on to the next, right. And I think our message is, you know, this Title IX affects women, mostly high school and college every single day. So, let's keep the month of women's history, let's keep it rolling (Lesley: Yeah) and and spread the love. You know, Lisa has three girls and she's got a division one athlete, I have two boys. And what's important for me is that I set the right example because they need to see that supporting women is an important thing. And sometimes I think men get in their own little heads and, you know, so (Lesley: Yeah) it's also setting an example for our kids that, "Hey, we're going to pay it forward for the people coming up the pike."

Lesley Logan 39:37  

Yeah, I love that. I think that's amazing. Okay, Laurie so where do y'all hang out on the socials? Is it the gram? Are you on Tik Tok? Where do where do people get to stalk you?

Laurie Jabbar 39:48  

We are on the Gram and it's at She's a 1 0 Times (T i m e s) 5, @shesa10times5. That's where most of us, you know, go and then we're on all of the platforms, Apple, Spotify, etc., for the podcast.

Lesley Logan 40:06  

Your podcast is so fun to listen to you have such a variety of guests and I learned so much. Well, and also you also had episode with a Bitcoin guy and I was like, (Laurie: Yeah) "Oh, great." You know what someone's going to talk about in regular words that I can understand. Perfect. I'm very excited ... (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 40:20  

Did you got your plot a land in the metaverse yet?

Lesley Logan 40:23  

I have really been stalling on that. I think I'm gonna have to, have ...

Laurie Jabbar 40:26  

Pilates studio in the metaverse. I'm seeing it. I'm feeling ...

Lesley Logan 40:29  

I know with my favorite leggings. And then you can buy my lipsticks and all the things. I ... (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 40:34  

Yeah and a tee, baby.

Lesley Logan 40:35  

I know. I know. I know. Brad's like we're making enough tees of you and I'm like, "We are?" (Lesley laughs) I'm like, I'm like, "Okay, does tell me where to smile. Where do I look?" So, okay. All right, I ask everyone and you've had such amazing advice. I think there's already been some tips along the way. But we ask every guest, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps can they take right now so they could be it till they see it?

Laurie Jabbar 41:03  

Let me ask you this, "What is be it till you see it mean to you?"

Lesley Logan 41:06  

To me, it is not waiting until you feel ready. It's not like a lot of people will wait, "Well, when this happens? When I graduate, then I'll do this. When my kids in high school then I'll do this. When this happens?" And instead it's like, acting like the person that you want to be when those things are happening right now. And then they'll happen sooner.

Laurie Jabbar 41:26  

Yeah. I love that. And I think your example was that you have a cup of coffee.

Lesley Logan 41:31  

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I used to when I was single, I wanted to create space for a partner. I had a very busy schedule. So how can I create space for a partner, when I don't really, I can't actually physically create like two nights a week that I'm off that I could spend with this person, I don't know. And so instead, I just made coffee for two people poured two cups and acted like I was pouring a cup for my partner. And now he pours his own coffee, but I still make it for him. (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 41:59  

I love that. Yeah. So I think from my lens, I really think it's being courageous, and not being afraid to fail. We talked a lot about that. But somehow finding it within ourselves. Just to take the step forward, you know, when we're feeling stuck, or if we're in a situation that is not fulfilling or is not, you know, making us as happy as we'd like to be. You know, like Adele had great thing and I took away from when she did the Oprah interview. It wasn't that our marriage was bad. She just wasn't as happy as she wanted to be. Period. Right? So I think sometimes we we settle and my thing is, take a step forward, even if it seems like the tiniest little step, take a step forward in the direction that that will get you to a place of more fulfillment. You know, it's, it's not being as scared. You know, a lot of times we're afraid of the dark, you know, to fail, or, you know, the scary stuff. But really, I think a lot of people are afraid of the light because that's, you know, it's even scarier that, "God could I be this person," you know. You know, one of our guests, Barbara Majeski, was just so great. She went through cancer, she had a dumpster fire of a divorce, and she just had a zero fucks attitude, or, you know, "I'm gonna do this I'm not gonna be afraid of..." And shoot, her first gig was on the Today Show, "I want to be on TV. I don't care what people say," you know. So she, you know, her first gig was, you know, go figure on the Today Show. And so don't be afraid of the light because I think great things can happen when you embrace it.

Lesley Logan 43:41  

I couldn't agree more. That is a beautiful BE IT action item. Thank you. Thank you, Laurie, for being here. Give Lisa a big hug. And I can't wait to hear more. She's a 10 Times 5 episodes. You're just, you're just a delight and you I love how you share so openly about your experiences and the lessons that you've learned because I do think that we all learn from stories (Laurie: Yeah) and and even if I could never imagine being at West Point, I definitely listening to your story about that and others. I learned so much from you. So I'm just so grateful to have you on our podcast so that our listeners can get to know you a little bit, learn from you. And if you want more of her, check her and Lisa out on @shesa10times5. Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Laurie Jabbar 44:26  

Be It Till You See It, baby!

Lesley Logan 44:29  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 45:02  

It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 45:13  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 45:18  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 45:26  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcas) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 45:38  

And two Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Let’s welcome Clare Solly to the Be It Pod as a guest co-host while Brad is away. As best friends, Clare and LL giggle their way through dieting, journaling, and reiterating the importance of changing the conversation around health. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• The ESSENTIAL, must have travel items 
• The line between health and obsession
• It comes down to control
• We have to change how we feel to change the conversation 
• How you start journaling 

Episode References/Links:

• Clare Solly on IG

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:01  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host is my best friend, Clare Solly. And hi, we're gonna dig into the robust conversation I had with Jenny Schatzle in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that episode, feel free to do whatever you want to take in the information. I'm going to be honest, you got to listen to it, you should listen to all the guests. But like, there's something so fire about her that we all need to listen to. And then you can come back and join us or you can do it backwards, you know, like CliffNotes. So anyways, really quick, this we are coming up on like, like two weeks away from 100 episodes. So everyone, first all... (Clare: one hundred) one hundred. So first of all, thank you so much. Oh my God, we couldn't do 100 episodes without you because I would just be talking to myself. Second, so there's going to be a giveaway so be watching the Instagram, because you can win a really awesome basket of all these goodies and some money. So check that out. And then this Saturday, if you're listening to real time. One of our OPC teachers is teaching her first workout and workshop at onlinepilatesclasses.com. She's doing a Jump Board Workout. And then she's doing a Jump Board Workshop. You don't have to be a teacher to join. It's just going to be a lot of fun. And then you're going to learn all the things you can nerd out for your own practice or for other people's practice. And that's all on onlinepilatesclasses.com. Okay, Clare, normally I asked Brad, if we have an audience question, but I felt like maybe since you're our guests, you should get to ask whatever you want.

Clare Solly 2:19  

Since I'm I'm stealing the co host seat from Brad while he's away. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah. So Lesley, I know that you and Brad travel a lot. And I want to know, because I know a lot about you. But I want to know what is like the one travel thing whether it's an actual tangible thing or something you do to prepare. What is the one travel thing you can't live without? (Lesley: Oh) I know it's a good one. Right?

Lesley Logan 2:52  

This is really good. Okay. I need to pick one? Hmm hmm. So ...

Clare Solly 2:59  

I'll give you two if you want. (Lesley: Yeah) You can have two.

Lesley Logan 3:01  

Okay, here's what I, first of all like pre pandemic, I was a woman who like knew how to pack in 17 minutes. And, also because Brad and I would trade wearing the same hat because like I would have clean hair on the way there and then (Lesley laughs) I have the dirty hair on the way back so I would wear his hat. And it said like Yogi something Jerome's Little Yogi and it's bright yellow hat. And so honestly, if it was pre pandemic, I would say that that is like our we can't live without hat. It comes with everywhere so much still that Global Entry just recognized us because who comes through the yellow hat every other week? Oh, that's, that's us. (Lesley laughs) Anyways, um, no, what I'll say is I really really love a good moisturizer, a good ChapStick and a comfortable outfit because everything else you can figure out by Google all the things. But if you are not comfortable in the outfit that you're flying in, and you're skin is not moisturized your lips or not moisturized, you're going to be uncomfortable. (Clare: I agree with that.) It doesn't really matter. So that's my thing. Also, if I'm doing long flights because my food sensitivities, I do pack oatmeal. I packed oatmeal packets, just like the, you know this the tear-away one.

Clare Solly 4:17  

Oh yeah cuz the, the air, the flight attendants give you hot water ...

Lesley Logan 4:21  

They gave you hot water. Yeah, and I pack peanut butter packets, and then I pack a collagen packet. Well multiple because I packed those for my coffee. So when I fly to Southeast Asia, all the stuff it's like a 12 hour flight there's only like three meals. Sometimes I can't have any of them. Sometimes I can have one of them. So I just am like alright, we got carbs, we got fat, we got protein, boom, like, and it's this, it's a meal in a cup and I just make it and so that helps me when I, like when I'm on a long flight that I'm like I'm gonna need to eat something because I don't I don't like eating the powerbar. I am no longer 21 that isn't real food. I think given the episode we're talking about Jenny would agree. (Lesley laughs) No, no, she's like, we need to stop something was bad or good but we also can say what's real. (Lesley laughs) I can't, I can't with it, I can't, I'm too, I need, I need to chew my food, it needs to, I need a utensil of some kind. So

Clare Solly 5:15  

I love this. I love this because it's like, and I was ready for you to ask it for me back. And like, I love how like you want tangible things to make yourself comfortable. And I'm like, I need to download a meditation because I don't sleep on airplanes. (Lesley: Oh that's cool.) So, I download the meditation and I like and whether it's just sounds or something like that, and I just listened to the meditation and I can put it on repeat and kind of just zen out and it's almost as good as sleeping.

Lesley Logan 5:40  

You are reminding me because I also cannot sleep on plane because I can't sleep unless I'm laying down and mama (Clare: Yeah) ain't rich enough for first class yet, but we're gonna be it till we see it. And so 

Clare Solly 5:52  

Medicine manifest that.

Lesley Logan 5:54  

Manifesting. So what I used to have the calm app since I no longer travel, I deleted that membership, because I would just use it to play Mat Mcconaughey nighttime story. His bedtime story, oh my gosh, when I flew to Brazil, I listened to it five times in a row. And so I'd wake up every time he'd stop talking. I put it back on and I just sleep. (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 6:19  

Oh my gosh. Well ... (Lesley: Like a baby.) since your podcast girl, LeVar Burton reads stories on his, like on his podcast and ...

Lesley Logan 6:27  

I should just download that. Then I don't have to get a new app. Genius. Clare, thank you so much. So you, so that's your essential one thing, you have to have (Clare: Yeah) the meditation.

Clare Solly 6:35  

I mean, I need snacks and gum and moisturizer too. But like the meditation app is like the one that I'm like, (Lesley: Yeah) I don't like to travel more than like an hour flight or two.

Lesley Logan 6:45  

You know what? I also find and this is actually I was listening to one of my favorite podcasts it's all women, they're talking about rom-coms or something like that, or mo... like oh, no that to me like movie airplane appropriate movies. And like the it was not my favorite female one but it's in the same companies podcast is called Love It or Leave It. And, and people were like, "Look, you should not be watching your Oscar winning movies on an airplane. You should be watching 90s rom-coms and watching how poorly they age but they put you to sleep and that's what you should be watching." (Lesley and Clare laughs) And I'm like, "I do that. I do that actually. I put on the Breakfast Club, Pretty Woman." It just them like, (Clare: Yeah) "Okay." (Lesley laughs) Anyways, I do miss it, Brad and my dad, you know, when I talked to them in Singapore, which is like four flights later. I said, "Oh, Singapore Airport has a movie theater." They're like, "We've seen them all. We've seen all the movies." (Lesley laughs) All right. Well, let's talk about Jenny Schatzle.

Clare Solly 7:45  

Yes, Jenny Schatzle. A woman on fire for changing the conversation around food, body image, the definition of health. Jenny Schatzle decided to change the structure of her gym, got rid of weight, weigh ins, restrictive diets, and instead equipped women to live intentionally and move their bodies with confidence. This conversation was so inspiring for me Lesley, I hope it was ins... as inspiring for you to talk to her as (Lesley: I love her) it was for me to listen to it ...

Lesley Logan 8:14  

I'm so glad. But I'm so glad you said that because like, you know it can be like not everybody wants to have this conversation. And not everyone's wants to hear, me to have this conversation with everyone but I do I wanted to bring her on because I really do believe in her mission and her message and when I said on the podcast like when I met her I was like, "This woman is on fire." She's like we seen her bio and more people need to hear what she's doing and she has been she has been some like sometimes my saving grace, her lives make me like her like little lives make me crack up. So, I'm glad you liked it.

Clare Solly 8:49  

Yeah, it was so good. Do you have one thing that you loved about talking with her?(Lesley: Yeah) One thing that you brought away from it. 

Lesley Logan 8:57  

Yeah. I mean there's so many things we could talk about. Also like please everyone like I did say this in the podcast but scroll back through her like her lives and her reels because when her daughters are playing in their bedroom quietly and she thinks that they are like just being quiet little amazingness girls and she goes in and they use marker all over their faces. And it's picture day like I kid you not I cry, cry, cry. So anyways, I because I can just like I know that would have been my sister and I so like I know. But aside from all the comedy entertainment and but in the way she's really just being honest with all of us. I love when she talked about the line between health and obsession and I think this is a fine line. (Clare: Yeah) And I know for myself, just because of the the family I've had in my life and because I was picked up ... y'all who talked about like the people getting picked up to be a model from a mall. That was me. I was one of those people. And here I was ...

Clare Solly 9:57  

More than once. Right? (Lesley: More than once.) I feel like ... (Clare laughs)

Lesley Logan 9:58  

Yeah. Happen... I know and then I and then I did get picked up at the gym and I did model and, and also all every single one of those times, no matter how much self development I did, every single one of them sent me down a place that wasn't really, that took health from to obsession, because here I was at 13 being told I needed to lose weight. And then in high school, it happened again. And then actually like after college in my early 30s and I was too skinny for commercial, my commercial agent was like, "You're too skinny." And my modeling agents like, "You're not skinny enough." And I'm like, "Well, no one's booking me. So I'm not really sure which way to go." And so you know, and then because my stomach issues, some things, I thought I was doing the name of health. And then there's also the, you know, I got all the compliments in the world when I was 25 pounds lighter. And I look at those pictures. And that is not I mean, I'm sure I was pretty, it's great. It's fun, it was not though, you can see I'm tired, you can see, like, I am not sleeping, like just all these things. And so I I do feel like I struggled a lot through my 20s and to my mid 30s on health versus obsession. And now somebody asked me yesterday, I was getting a new tattoo everyone. And the woman was like, "How healthy are you?" And I said, "I don't, I don't know understand?" She's like, "Do you drink?" And I said, "Oh, yeah, I drink." So it was that the line? (Lesley and Clare laughs) But I think it's like, you know, everyone is wondering what that is? And I think it's different. I think, I don't know, I feel like the diff... the definition is what works for you. Like, is it keeping you from going on a trip? Like, can you travel? Can you have a meeting with people at work? Do you have to always bring your own food? You know, I don't know.

Clare Solly 11:41  

Yeah, and I mean, it's, it's interesting, too, because she mentioned about how your weight or control of your food was, was a control thing. And, you know, when we're feeling out of control, we go to our diet and our exercise and try to control that, because that's something that gets quick results (Lesley: Yeah) that, you know, we can cut something out, or we can add reps in or whatever. And we can, can get control over something like that. And it's, it's interesting to watch friends who are on diets or who are working out or in, you know, new workout routines, and you start to lose like that first 10 pounds, that first 20 pounds. And then they just keep going and they go overboard. Like (Lesley: Yeah) like, and it's, it's just like, you're gorgeous, like stop, or, you know, (Lesley: Yeah) like if you don't feel good, stop. 

Lesley Logan 12:32  

Well, and there's so, so many factors to that there is the affirmations that come around with that, there is the maybe you're not getting results anywhere else in your life, and you're getting results there. So you just keep going. I think it's, you know, I think this is where having a, we'll talk about a little bit later, but having some sort of like journaling practice or having open conversations with friends, and really exploring because the more I got curious about like, why like there be... I remember I remember distinctly going, "Am I, am I still trying to get healthy with my stomach? Or am I, did I switch the goal to the goal switch me," you know, and so that really required a lot of thought. And then when this guy actually figured what was wrong with my stomach altogether. And I met another holistic doctor, and they were helping me and I was gaining weight, then I had to like actually have like, literally like almost like changing the chair conversation myself where I sat in one chair. And then I sat in another chair. And I sat in another chair because it was really hard for me to know that the weight I was gaining was actually really healthy and assigned that like I am in good health. Like I'm a, I'm doing good versus like the obsession of like keeping the compliments coming, you know, so it's different. And also, like for sure, as a person in the fitness world, like gaining weight is like something that can be really, that you start to tell yourself a lot of stories. So this is it's it's a complicated talking point. And wherever you are on the journey, it's not something that's not good or bad. That's what I think that Jenny was trying to say here, but I really do... well, have you explore like, is it really for the health or did you switch and it can happen in an instant. It's (Clare: Yeah) not like, you know, so anyways, what is one thing that you love that she said?

Clare Solly 14:25  

I loved that she said, and I'm gonna quote her we say things... because I had to rewind and like, it's like a hit me in the chest. And so I rewind, and I typed it out, like I hope this is exact. We say things because we think others are thinking it and we say it because we want them to know that we know and she was talking about how she had the client who called herself big. And this, oh, I felt a little teary right there. This hit home for me, because like Lesley you know we've met we've been in (Lesley: Yeah) person so many times. I am six feet tall and I am 282 pounds. If you look at me like from a distance if you look at pictures of me, I don't look like I weighed almost 300 pounds. I am very well proportioned. I am tall. I am beautiful. I'm I'm a frickin beauty queen. Like I ...

Lesley Logan 15:20  

I know you are. Did you... she does pageants. (Lesley and Clare laughs)

Clare Solly 15:23  

I do pageants. I am out in the world and being beautiful. But it took me a long time to get to the point where I, I didn't relate my size, with big and with my size with being fat because I'm a size 18. (Lesley: Yeah) And on me, it's it looks different than most people who are of size 18. And I'm not saying anything negative about anybody of any size, because I don't care what size you are. You're beautiful. (Lesley: Yeah) Like if you think you're beautiful, then you are. But this hit me so hard, because I was the person I used to make a joke. And I'd be like, "Yeah, I'm just fat." And people will be like, "What are you talking about? Like, (Lesley: Yeah) you're not fat." Like you've said it to me 100 times probably. (Lesley: Yeah) And I had to reform the way I said it because yeah, I was calling it out. I was being like, I was the elephant in the room. And I was saying, "Yeah, here I am." Um ...

Lesley Logan 16:20  

Right. So that no one else could like think it and like like, yeah, so like you could just call it out. So then it was like done and then then ... Yeah

Clare Solly 16:27  

Yeah, or worry about me because I was the bigger one in the room. Like, okay, like, I don't want people to feel uncomfortable because they think I might be uncomfortable.

Lesley Logan 16:36  

Yeah. And but also you saying that as a joke. Part of that maybe it's because you, I don't know. Like I don't put words in my mouth. But I also know so many women I have I have people in my pol... on OPC who do call themselves fat. And I think like, they they are reframing the word. And may we all you know, and I do think it really this is something that's like really important for all of us to understand, like I have had, I brought Amy Ledin and I brought on some other coaches and Jenny Schatzle at first, I was like, "No good or bad foods or just food." (Clare: Yeah) And then also like, this is it's the interesting thing that the media put in, like, how come we knew every models weight, and height and size, right, when they were like modeling, (Clare: Yeah) because you're six feet tall, there is a size six feet has to be, like (Clare: Yeah) you just like you'll fall over. And, and so I think like whether or not you feel comfortable, like owning the word right now that fat is fine. Like there's nothing wrong with that. It is all about us, like really recognizing that we have to change the conversation of how we feel about our bodies, because it is affecting everything we do. And it is affecting the next generation. And so I'm not an expert at this, but I really do want to keep learning it because I my grandmother was over 300 pounds. So I only knew people were on diets. I just thought all women were on diets (Clare: Yeah) my whole life, you know.

Clare Solly 18:06  

I mean, that's sort of our mother's generation, too. Like our (Lesley: Yeah) mothers and our grandmothers were always on diets. And I think the I think you too said this in this this podcast, like a diet isn't something, it's not meant to be a long term. Like it's, it's not meant to be ...

Lesley Logan 18:21  

Yeah. Well, technically a diet is how you eat. (Clare: Yeah) So we're all on diet of some kind, because it's like the way you eat. That's just like the definition that I could recall because I remember I said that I was on gluten free diet to my grandfather and he goes "You're too skinny to be on a diet" because he only ... and like, "No, it just means I can't have the gluten. That's just the diet label." And you know, I think I just remember I don't recall who said but there's a book rethinking thin and I when I discovered where the history of the of the female body came from, which is a cartoon character, it really stuck with me. And it also stuck with me when they did these like these studies like on which is kind of diet is better or the you know, what was the one where everyone's having bacon this before keto was the atkins. (Clare: atkins) Yeah, atkins. Y'all, I know my, I know my diets. I know what my grandma did. And, and, versus just moderation. And I just remember thinking, wow, if they've done all this, study all this stuff, and it's not changing based on the food you're eating, then there has to be something different. And I really do think it's how we feel about ourselves, and the conversation we have around what we're eating, and we have to stop working out as punishment for what we ate too (Clare: Yeah) everyone working (Clare: Yeah) out is it's own thing. It's not com... brought in on the food.

Clare Solly 19:41  

Yeah, well Jenny even said it's not the donut. It's the guilt around the donut. (Lesley: Yeah) So have the donut but don't feel guilty ...

Lesley Logan 19:48  

Right? It isn't so much more freeing. I can't wait to go have a doughnut... (Clare: Yeah) I don't have one. Ok whew. 

Clare Solly 19:53  

Yeah. Well and you know, I gave myself permission a while ago to just eat something like just eat it. If I want it like, I know that I'm not going to go crazy and eat a whole bag of chips, but if that's what I'm craving, and that's what my body wants, I'm going to eat a whole bag of chips right now and then I'll be fine ...

Lesley Logan 20:14  

... truffle one and also nothing wrong with the chips, right? The chips aren't good or bad. It's what you think around them and, and why you're, you know, like, it's just information like, why are you grabbing the whole bag? Brad bought some truffle chips, everyone. And I was like, "Oh, I'll just have one. I just need one." And I like had I was like, "You better hide the bag, because no one needs as much truffles about ..." (Lesley laughs) I was like, "Oh, this is so good, I'm gonna ruin my dinner."

Clare Solly 20:41  

Oh, I love a good truffle. (Lesley: I know) Speaking of Brad, I feel like I should say the thing that Brad usually says at this point. (Lesley: Yeah, here you go.) So let's talk about the BE IT action items. So what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items (I practice that y'all) can we take away from your conversation with Jenny Schatzle?

Lesley Logan 21:03  

Well, why don't you jump on in. That's what Brad does.

Clare Solly 21:05  

Oh yeah. (Lesley and Clare laughs) We love you Brad. Mine was write it out. I loved how the two of you talked about journaling. And as a longtime listener of this pod. I wanted to jump in and give my thoughts on journalising, journalising.

Lesley Logan 21:25  

Journaling. Journalising? Journaling. Oh, that's a has its own word already. Okay. (Lesley laughs) I thought, I thought we're like making up a new word, which I love to do and Brad hates. But ... (Lesley and Clare laughs)

Clare Solly 21:41  

Okay, journaling. Because, you know, you've been talking about, how you've been doing The Artist's Way. I did The Artist's Way, a long, long, long time ago, I've been a big fan of journaling forever. And I love that you talked about journaling on this pod so much. But I always want to like shout it to the pod people or to the podcasters, the pod people, I'm making more words. It's my mudslides that I'm drinking ...

Lesley Logan 21:58  

Or it's poddies, right. Like, listen to you and a shout out to all the poddies. (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 22:07  

All the poddies. You got some poddies on this cast. (Lesley: Yeah) Um, that like, everybody's like, "What, how do I start journaling?" Or like, the big question when I'm journaling is how do I start? And like, I just remember when I did The Artist's Way, like, the big thing you do is just keep writing. Like, even if you write the three pages. I hate journaling. Journaling is stupid. I hate journaling. I mean, you don't want to be negative. But if that's all you're writing, just just keep writing it and just ... (Lesley: Well, that's be it it you see it).

Lesley Logan 22:35  

That's be it till you see it. You're like, "I hate this. I'm doing it because I know I want to write." (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 22:41  

And eventually ideas will start coming. And like I started doing that. And I wrote for two years and ended up writing a novel. So you never know what's going to come out of it. And again, that's a very BE IT moment. Right? So just write, who cares what you're writing. You could write your name over and over and just keep journaling. Anyway, that's mine ...

Lesley Logan 23:01  

I love it. I love that one. I couldn't agree more. Everyone, (Clare: Yeah) my dogs, I've got two of four in this room. And for whatever reason, ear flapping and no one likes the way the bed is set up. So ... (Clare: That's okay, you're single mom this week. It's fine.) I'm single dog mom this week. It's real. Everything you're hearing is real. Yes. And thank you for for explaining that again because I think people really need to hear that. They have to because I was that person whose therapist was like, "You should journal." And I said, "Okay, no problem. I got a journal." And then week later, I'm like, "So this journaling thing. What do you do? How do you journal?" And she's like, (Clare: Yeah. I'm not hater.) "Okay, you are too much of a perfectionist here. You just need to put a pen to the paper." So like she... shout out to her for calling me out on my stuff. All right, my favorite thing. Okay, this kind of come from the The Artist's Way stuff that I've been doing. But when she said, "Where did you learn that in your body, that your body wasn't good enough?" (Clare: Oh, yeah) This is a BE IT action item that she said at the end. And you all need to listen to this. And I need to rethink this. And we and maybe you ask yourself that a couple times. And if you've already like you're already like owning the body you're in like, "Hey, way to go. Sorry that we sound like we're behind the times. We are working on it. We are works in progress." And and I love this because whether or not you can just insert it so that you can also insert like where did you learn that you can't be an entrepreneur? Where did you learn that you can't be a good mom? Where did you learn that you can't be a good wife? Where did you learn that you can't be this? Asking that question of yourself is really going to actually get to the root of the problem because I have found that a lot of the things that I believe, the limiting beliefs I believe are other people's voices.

Clare Solly 24:41  

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? (Lesley: Yeah) Crazy?

Lesley Logan 24:45  

Yeah. Yeah. So it's crazy. And also like, duh, of course that's where we all are. Everyone is just trying to do their best and sometimes harming others. And so anyways, I feel like please write that question down. She had so many BE IT action items though and Clare and I could probably go on forever because we we did before we hit record. (Lesley and Clare laughs)

Clare Solly 25:07  

Yeah, we forgot to give people the warning that they should probably turn their speed down to 1, 1.0 for this one. (Clare laughs)

Lesley Logan 25:13  

You know, what? Did you hear that on the Helaine episode, ladies this coming up and gentlemen, I'm sure that if you're good and listening. My my upcoming guests after the 100th episode, she's like, "I'm gonna really try to talk slow. So if I sound abnormally slow, I'm going to try to talk slow." And I said, "Oh, I'm not a good helper for you. I talk fast." So she's like, she's like, "We should probably set a episode. It's already a set .1 .25. So just adjust accordingly. (Lesley and Clare laughs)

Clare Solly 25:13  

I mean, I think Brad said it in the recap that y'all did of my of my podcast ... Clare laughs) They was like, no, they actually talked about that.

Lesley Logan 25:29  

Yeah, yeah, we do. She's and by the way, everyone we didn't have the star of the show. We probably should have. Clare Solly, we actually talked about on the episode that came out at the time that we're recording this, which was ... (Clare: 19) Yeah, so you're episode 19. And we talked about you several times. But especially on the Wild Honey episode, which number I can't remember, but it has just (Clare: Okay) come out the week of April the fourth. So yeah, okay. How are you going to use these tips in your life my love is like, tell us how you're gonna do it? Here's how you do that. You actually screenshot this episode, you tag me, you tag Clare Solly. Clare, what is your Instagram handle? It's in the show notes. But what it is ...

Clare Solly 26:29  

It is @youwontbesolly s o l l y. And that's my Instagram handle. While you w o n t ... b e s o l l y. Yeah and tag me. I would love it. Yeah, my challenge for you is to tag us.

Lesley Logan 26:42  

Yeah, she just offered you a challenge. So you tag her, tag the @be_it_pod and tag Jenny Schatzle with your BE IT action and takeaway that you're gonna keep after this episode. And also do like, share this with a friend who needs to hear it. If you have a friend who has been struggling with change in that conversation and how they feel about their body, how they feel about they eat, what they eat. Sometimes it's hard for you to talk to them, but sometimes like, they'll hear it from this episode. So share it, text it to them. It's how this podcast grows. It's also Jenny gets her message out to more people. So until next time, we'll catch on the next episode Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 27:49  

It's written produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 28:00  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 28:04  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 28:13  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 28:25  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

The conversation with our body has been defined for us since birth. The comments made as you grew up helped shape your mindset. It’s not your fault, but it is time to change the dialogue around food and our definition of health. 

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

* Changing the conversation around food for the next generation 

* Redefining what health means to you. 

* The line between health and obsession 

* Why people are still trying to be certain sizes

* Learn and relearn your definition of health 

* How to change the dialogue in your own head

Episode References/Links:

* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennyschatzle/?hl=en

* Jenny Schatzle Ted Talk: Rewiring how you look at yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DNqKig7Xis

* Jenny Schatzle Ted talk: The opinion that really matters https://www.ted.com/talks/jenny_schatzle_the_opinion_that_really_matters

Guest Bio:

Jenny Schatzle’s passion is to change the conversation on body image, self worth and the power of movement. Her ambition is teaching women to live the life they want, not the life they think they should. She is an author, mother of twins, speaker and business owner. Her newest book, Breaking the cycle helps you get to the root of toxic cycles holding you back. Through tools, conversation, and mindset Jenny helps you create solutions that will change your life forever.

Motivational, authentic and relatable Jenny is a highly sought after speaker and guide for women who want to make lasting change and impact in their own lives. She has been featured in dozens of media outlets worldwide and has two TEDx talks that had audiences on their feet. Jenny believes her true purpose in life is to help women feel good about themselves and empower everyone to change the conversation.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected] .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

Resources

• Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
• Lesley Logan website
• Be It Till You See It Podcast
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
• Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
• Profitable Pilates

Social Media

• Instagram
• Facebook
• LinkedIn

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

Hi, Be It listener. Holy frickin moly! Get your notes out and if you're driving, you are just going to listen and want to come back ... you're going to come back. This is an episode you will 100%, 100% save. I've Jenny Schatzle y'all here. And when I tell you like girl crush, like fucking girl crush. I met her before any of us knew what was going on with the world. And I was at this incredible event by Erica Hood, who was also a podcast guest. Brad will tell you what the episode was. But she had wrapped your womanhood as an event and it was just women supporting women. And Jenny Schatzle came up to me and she introduced herself and she told me what she was doing. And she's like, "I'm changing the conversation." I was like, like, I like the the boldness that was in her, the confidence that it was in her like, and when I say this, like, there was not an ounce of me that doubted that that's exactly what she was doing. And I, at the time I was living in LA and that is, like that's a city where you can kind of see like, people are saying what they're doing, but you like, "Are really doing that?" They're like this one was doing it. And she sat up there and at the panel, and I knew exactly why she was invited, I knew exactly what she was doing. And I just was like, "I've got to be friends with her." And then of course, you know, as the world shut down, and I had had pivot everything in our businesses, I just kept following her and kept commenting our stuff, kept staying in touch with her, kept laughing at her videos, and I share all that because sometimes like you are inspired by someone and one, they might you might be inspiring the right back but two, their when someone is working so hard at something, you got to support them. You, I'm telling you, you got to support them because a) it makes you feel freakin good that you're doing it, b) it makes them realize that they are they are making a point, they are making sense, they are getting their word out. And it and when they are doing something that's so powerful, it it rubs off on you. And I know for a fact that so many of the things she has said, so many things she's done. They've hit me on days when I've had we'll be talking about like bad body days. Some of her points have hit me on bad body days. And I'm like, "Oh, Les, remember who you are. Remember what you're doing. Remember why you're doing this." And I don't want to keep talking because I do want you to get into this episode. Our conversation is just, it's just really amazing. But it is if you are someone who ever has bad body days, this is literally for you. Re listen to it as many times as you need. Her BE IT action items are freaking awesome. There are so many quotes in here. I, my team is going to have to quote them all. (Lesley laughs) So that she can have them but also so that we can remind you whenever we need to that you got to stop outsourcing your frickin good days and bad days of the scale. And this one, this woman is on a mission to change the conversation. She really really truly is. She lives it. She breathes it. And you're going to get that on this episode. So after this brief message, here's Jenny.

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Alright, Be It listeners. I have the one and only Jenny Schatzle here. I met this woman she is fire. Okay, so when she actually when I let her talk, she was just going to blow your mind. I couldn't take my eyes off of her, my ears off of her. I really fell in love with her. I met her like two weeks before. Everything changed in everyone's world. And she has just been fired to watch makes me laugh on her Instagram. She inspires me and I had to get her here on the podcast for all of you. So Jenny, can you tell everyone who you are? What you're doing? What you're like so fired up about?

Jenny Schatzle 4:29  

Oh, first of all, thank you for having me. It's so fun just being here with you, and all your listeners. My name is Jenny Schatzle and I am here to help women change the conversation on body image, confidence and movement. So, I think we're about to have a really impactful, powerful conversation and I can't wait.

Lesley Logan 4:47  

I am so excited. So I would love for you to share like how did this come about? Is it when you had daughters? Were you thinking about doing this before? By the way your kids make me laugh so much and so or was it something that like had been part of your, your drive for many, many years.

Jenny Schatzle 5:06  

So I, yes, I own a gym in Santa Barbara, California. I have been in the fitness industry for over 20 years. And what I just realized was I did all the things you were supposed to do, I gave people restrictive diets, I weighed them in, I did measurements, I did before and afters, I did them for myself, myself, pretty much my entire life. I grew up very much in a diet binge, not only family cycle, but life cycle. And, and I just got to this point where I realized it wasn't sustainable. It wasn't making me happy, and the continual conversation of when I do this, so like, when I lose the weight, then I'll have more energy. When I have a flat stomach, then I'll be happy. When I fit in this size four pant, then my life will start. And even when I was at my fitness, my goal weight, my low body fat, I never realized it because it was never good enough. And so I had this aha moment. And, you know, luckily it was before I had children, and then I was blessed with twins. And not only twins, but girl twins. So I have two little girls, Hope and Haven. And my movement really, you know, I thought, "God, we really need to change this for the younger generation." But here's the stopping point. We cannot change it for them, unless we're changing it for ourselves. And I really believe not only women, but moms, you know, it's like we are, I don't care what anybody says "we're the head of the household." You know, we are we are doing all the things, but we are the ones also saying all the things. So this message that we have about our bodies, about food, about our own self worth, is so ingrained in us that we don't even realize how toxic it is because we've been saying it for so long. So (Lesley: 100%) ya know, I always ask everybody like, "Where, you know, think about where do you start the change? It's got to start with the conversation, the conversation we have with ourselves, and the conversation we have with each other."

Lesley Logan 7:09  

Yeah, I mean, like, I think back to my entire childhood, because my grandmother was very large. She always has been and she like the the thing she would always say is like like they should never have taken her off fen-phen because it was the best thing that worked and like (Jenny: Oh) that. Like I grew up as a junior high kid knowing what Fen-Phen was, knowing what Weight Watchers all those things. And so I remember, I remember this like, like, probably seven years ago, six years I was with my husband, we were in Joshua Tree going to the grocery store, and there was a woman. And she was wearing a t shirt as a dress. And she walked with such confident and she had cellulite and tiger marks, all the stuff. And I looked at her and I thought, "I don't walk with that much confidence." And I was like, "What is my deal?" Like, it was like this weird outer body experience. And that's when I realized we're going, I, I am I'm like, I'm also doing the whole watching what I eat, like the conversation I have with myself. And I was like, "I'm if I'm not happy in this body, when am I gonna be happy. So look at her. She's happy. Like, she looks great. She's walking with con... she looks amazing. I'm over here, like thinking my jeans are too tight," you know. And so I like I really love what you're talking about because it's true. I don't have kids, but like the things that I say even as a trainer for my clients, you know, like, if I can't be positive about my own body and the conversation I have myself, I can't help them stop that conversation in the studio, cannot, you know, so it really does expand. How... And I just had a girl here at my house this weekend and she mentioned that her daughter goes around to saying, "I'm busy." Because like her daughter hears her say the mom says, "I'm busy all the time." (Jenny: Yeah) So the daughter's like, "I'm busy. Can't do that. I'm busy." And so you're right, the kid, our kids do pick up on everything we say. So what how did that, how do you change that though? You're a gym owner, and people expect some sort of like, you know what I mean? Like, this is a struggle that (Jenny: Yeah) I see like, I have clients all the time who come to me who lose weight. And I literally say, "I actually am not a nutritionist, and that's not something I can focus on with you. Here's what I can do." You know, so is that what you did? Or like, how did you have like change the conversation at your gym?

Jenny Schatzle 9:11  

Yeah, and it was difficult. And I still have people you know, people want to get weighed and people want and it's a huge selling point, it was for us. And so if you want to get in, they want to do measurements, they want to do before and afters. But when you really get into the conversation, and you keep asking, "why." Like, "Why? Why does that why does that matter? Oh, when you get to this point, well who..." The whole part of this conversation is getting to the root of like, where this started and why we think this way, right? So who told you that being 140 pounds was exactly where you're supposed to be? And the weight which you're supposed to live at and be happy at that. So where who and where did we learn that our body wasn't good enough? And we have to become aware of, truly I'm going to be honest. It's not our fault. Like we were not born hating our bodies. And this was a message like you said you saw a woman in this t shirt and she's rocking it, she's got say like. Think about most of us grew up seeing magazine covers showing cellulite rolls, and it says, "Look at the celebrity gone wrong." Like it's, you know, it's all it's all of this information always like cellulite, fat rows, getting bigger. This is the worst thing that can happen to a woman. (Lesley: Yeah) That's the message we received. And so of course, we are think about how much energy and time we spend on a daily basis, worrying about our bodies, what we eat, that's a lot of energy and it's a lot of time. And it's keeping us small, in every single way. And so the problem is, not only are we continuing this conversation we're passing it on. So if we can start to question like, "Why do I have to have a scale that I have to weigh myself every morning to determine if I'm going to have a good or a bad day." Like (Lesley: Yeah) my day, and I've lived with this. So this is my truth. Like, I used to start every day by getting on the scale in the bathroom. And if I was heavy, right gained a couple pounds, that means I'm at the gym, I'm probably going to wear a sweatshirt, maybe I'm going to do two or three classes, like I'm doing everything I can to undo what has just happened. If ...

Lesley Logan 11:09  

Right. Which could have been like you had pasta the night before, and how ... (Jenny: 100%) Like it could be like you're about to have your period. (Lesley laughs)

Jenny Schatzle 11:18  

A 100%. The messages we received as women should have been, your body is going to change. (Lesley: Yeah) On it probably for a lot of us on a daily basis. But on a weekly basis, like we are never, we're not the same way all the time. And when we put so much value in this number on the scale. Like think about your funeral. People, if you got to look, if you got to listen in on your funeral, people are not going to sit there and be like, "Wow, she was so thin. I'm really proud of her for losing the body or the baby weight. I'm really, you know, like good for her for not eating sugar and really sticking to that diet." Like those things are not important. Right? (Lesley: Yeah) And here's where it gets a little like, you know, people say, "Oh, you're anti diet, anti diet, diet culture." I don't like to be, "Yes, I am." I don't like to be anti anything, because I think it puts people's walls up. But we have to come from a place of like realizing we've got to redefine what the definition of health is. (Lesley: Yeah) So there's this, there's a line between health and obsession, because obsession is not health. So for me growing up in the name of health, I cut entire food groups out and obsessed about not eating them. I worked out way harder than I probably should have. I actually took me out of living my life, I didn't enjoy eating because I was so obsessed about what I was eating or what I shouldn't be eating or how I was going to make it up or tomorrow I can start cleansing so that I can binge. And it was just this vicious cycle. But in my mind, I was being healthy. (Lesley: Yeah) So I tell people, it's like a good example, for me to be 20 pounds lighter than I am now takes me out of living my life. And (Lesley: Yeah) to me that's not health. So it's people were always looking for like, "Oh yeah, you shouldn't eat like, you shouldn't eat dairy, you should eat carbs." If we all ate the same and worked out the same, we would still have different bodies. (Lesley: Right) So why are we convinced that something that worked for your friend is gonna work for you? But also your friend has a different body. And is that sustainable? Like, yeah, we can all lose weight but is it sustainable? And is it going to keep you enjoying your life? This is where the line of like, what is healthy and what is obsession? We need to we need to clear that up.

Lesley Logan 13:31  

Yeah, so with like, what are some signs that like, I mean, to you and I it might be a little obvious and maybe some of the listeners would know but like just in case someone doesn't know what obsession looks like? Can you think of some of the clients you've had or even your own experience that like signs of like obsession around? What is healthy even though it like you said it in the name of health we do these obsessive things? What what have those look like for some people?

Jenny Schatzle 13:57  

So what I like to tell people is truly trying to change the conversation and your mindset about working out. Right? Like, and I know we all see these means like, you know, workout should be for your health and not about food or but it's actually like you always say putting it into action because that's how we get clarity, right. That's how we that's how we go towards our purpose is by doing action. So thinking like, working out and obsession is I have to get X amount of miles, I have to burn X amount of calories. I have to work out for at least 45 minutes, like we need to redefine. I always tell people, you should try to move every day intentionally. And so that needs to change and what that means like for me some days, I've got twins, my husband is a firefighter. He's gone all the time. I own a business like I own a gym, and I can't make it to the gym every day. So for me sometimes that's intentionally going to do 10 minutes of walking around the block, doing a 10 minute YouTube video, stretching like intentionally moving sometimes it's 20 minutes, sometimes it's an hour so not having so much pressure to do X amount, it's like, "Oh, yeah, I'm going to move for 10 minutes because one, this is all I have today. And two, this is going to change my energy, my attitude and my mood." So (Lesley: Yeah) people always ask, "How do you find joy in movement?" It's when you stop using it as a weight loss tool. And how your cha... body changes is just what's going to happen. But don't make that the focus because when we change the conversation about working out, it's like, "Oh, yeah, I'm going to do this, because I'm actually feeling very stuck, paralyzed, crabby, I'm yelling at my kids." When you physically move your body, you physically move your thoughts and your energy and your mind. So when you start moving for the right reasons, it becomes enjoyable and you want to do it.

Lesley Logan 15:42  

You are 100% correct. Like I talked a lot about how habits are built, and because our habits just become our routines. And I studied with BJ Fogg. So it's like, you're not you're ditching the 21 days, it's actually all about emotion. And so it's like you just said, the joy in movement. If you're wanting to make intentional movement, something that is easier to do, you actually have to bring positive emotions around the thing. Because when you bring shame, of course, you don't want to move. Of course, your brain is like, "That doesn't make me feel good. Why would I remember to do that?" And I am, so I really love that you said and I also, I love that you're honest about like, the 10 minutes, because sometimes that's all I can do. When we had 25 women here, every morning, I couldn't do my normal routine, which I do for me, it makes me feel really good. And some days it changes. Some days, it's breath work with a walk. Some days, it's a run, and I get to actually get my studio. But um, but all I did was like all I have is 10 minutes, I'm gonna run the dog around the block. So we're gonna maximize our 10 minutes, and we're gonna get those dopamine up and I can walk in with a smile on my face. And it is true we have I really think like, for me, the moment I stopped going, I had to my my Pilates session has to be 55 minutes because the gym says all workouts are 55 minutes. And I'm like, "I think they did that for payroll. I'm pretty sure there's no science behind the hour long workout." (Lesley laughs)

Jenny Schatzle 17:03  

There's no science ... There's no science around a lot of things like I'm just gonna interupt right there, (Lesley: Yeah) like the BMI, right? Actually, a lot of things that are happening and coming out now, even going to the doctor for a lot of women is very, it's it's scary. It's, you know, a lot of my body stuff started when I was 10 years old. And I went to the doctor and he said, "Look at this chart on the wall, and according to your height and your weight, you are fat on the borderline of obese." And I was just like a kid growing, going through my stuff like I was in no, but it was at that moment. I learned. "Oh, yeah. Okay, stop. Oh, wait, this is this is bad." Like being fat is bad. This is not healthy. This is and I was not an obese child. I was, you know, again, going through it what every girl, boy does. And then it's at that point, I started seeing the magazines, then noticing, "Oh, my family. Oh, my mom's eating SnackWell cook. And this whole like kind of diet? Oh, your body is not good. This is not where you're supposed to be." And you know, when we're talking about changing the conversation on movement that also goes into food, like what are we obsessing about? Right? So when just like you said, I mean, you're a Pilates instructor and can't always like this, people need to remember even these people that are telling you what to do, or we're living this too. Right? And for a lot of us that grew up in the fitness industry. This was just what you were supposed to do. You know, X amount this is these are all the lessons I learned. And this is how you're supposed to eat. And so changing the conversation of really realizing how we talk about food is so important. It's like labeling food, good and bad. That's we need to really discourage people to do that. Like that's not a thing. We shouldn't be doing that anymore. Because you just said with a shame around working out like, "Oh, I didn't get this in, or oh, I should have done that." Shame and guilt is one of the biggest thing that keeps us in our toxic food cycles. So when we eat something, it's not the donut. It's actually the guilt and shame you have around that donut, that's probably going to make you eat five more and then think, "Okay, I just binge. Now I'm going to get back on it." Where if you just had a doughnut and moved on, but it's not that simple. Because we have to go back and heal this relationship that we have with food in our body in order to move forward from it like, "Oh, yeah, this started very young. This started when my mom either told me my belly was big, or I saw her tell herself, her thighs were big." So I always believe our parents did the best they could with what they knew. But a lot of us grew up watching our mom, disliking her body or commenting on our body or commenting on other people's bodies. And that's where internally we got this message that, "Oh yeah, a thin body is the right body. A thin body is the body you're supposed to have and a thin body is successful." I'm going to tell you, when I was at my thinnest, I was mentally my most miserable. (Lesley: Yeah) And again, that is in health. So the food thing is such a it's it's so hard to because it's everywhere.

Right? (Jenny: Right. But we ...) And we need to sustain life like you have to actually.

And you needed to sustain life. Like I'm nine years sober. I don't need alcohol to sustain life. Right? And so I quit drinking, because I got to my breaking point. And that's a whole other podcast. But we I quit drinking and then it was my actually, my food and body stuff really came up. That's when I was like, "Oh, here we go. This is another thing because I didn't have alcohol to numb me out any more than I had food (Lesley: Yeah) than I had working out." So it's all they're all connected, whether it's alcohol, food, shopping, people pleasing, pill popping, it's (Lesley: Yeah) all a way to numb out.

Lesley Logan 20:38  

Yeah, I just (Jenny: And so ...) wanted I heard the other day someone bring up like a way of control as people pleasing. And I never thought about that way. So those of you didn't hear that, you have to hear that, like it's a that kind of thing. It's all it's all mixed up in there. And we have and people pleasing is also, I think, a lot of reasons why people are still trying to be a certain size, because they think people will like them. They'll get things like that they want done. And I have to say like most of the people that I admire, respect and learn from are not obsessing about food. (Lesley laughs) They're not, they're just not because they don't have the time. I don't know, they don't have the time to think about that.

Jenny Schatzle 21:15  

Yeah, and you know, truly it is, again, a lot of this. I can I can speak on this, because this was my life. And a lot of a lot of this, it may sound harsh, and it may be like, "Yeah, that's great but how do you get there?" You have to first realize that, honestly, it's not your fault. Like, (Lesley: Yeah) a lot of the issues we have with food in our bodies are what we grew up. It's what we learned watching, is what we were told it's what, it might not have been our parents, it might have been a kid on a playground like, and it's just stuck with us. But we have to really internalize like, we have to question that, "Who said that? You know, why why am I allowing them to tell me, this is the way I should look, this is the way." And so changing the conversation around food when you're talking about control, like dieting is a control. So when we feel we all have bad body days. Like, "I am completely on this." Like, "I don't diet anymore. I still have bad body days." And then when that happens, I immediately think because it's so ingrained, like, "Oh, maybe I maybe I should juice. Maybe I shouldn't eat that." And it's like, "Oh, yeah, wait a minute. That's what's ingrained in me. That's not who I want to be anymore." So I can hear that thought but I don't have to follow that thought. And so I get to say like, "Oh, yeah, that's old programming." And I'm going to just I need to sit in this that I'm, I'm feeling vague. today. I'm having an off day, I'm okay. What can I do? I could go walk. I could journal I could, you know, dieting is the first thing we go to when we're having a bad body image. Because it's a way we can control things. But it's also like when your life feels out of control when your kids when your relationship, we go to food because we don't want to look at all that other stuff. And so it's a really, it's a way for us, like I get back on track. I can control this, but we know, one, it's not sustainable. Cutting out entire food groups, in any kind of restriction leads to binging period. (Lesley: Yeah) And that is where also that obsession comes in. It's like if I tell you you can't have carbohydrates. Yeah, it might last, you know, I don't know, a few days, a few weeks. I don't know how to bake it yet. But it's, you know, it doesn't last we all do like, you know, if you're on a 21 days, or 30 days of something, what happens on day 31?

Lesley Logan 23:21  

Right? You just go party. (Lesley laughs)

Jenny Schatzle 23:23  

You just go party! Like literally, I was with a group of women. And this woman said, "Oh, we just did a clean eating challenge." First of all, food isn't dirty. Like we even that it's just these little things that we learn that's like, "Oh, yeah, like, when we labeled food clean, I'm gonna clean, I'm eating clean." It's good or bad, we're actually giving the power to food. (Lesley: Yeah) So it's up to us to take that back. Like, food is not in charge of my life. We and for so long food was in charge of my life. And that that's not what we should be living. So taking your power back by it's, it's not good or bad. It's just food. (Lesley: Totally) Right? So and we just, it's just food and like, yeah, you're gonna eat bread, you're gonna eat dessert. But when we give it the power is when the guilt and the shame come up. But I was just with a group of women. And the woman said, "Oh, we just did this 30 day clean, I feel great." And then her friend goes, "Oh, what do you do when it was over? And you go eat a burger and get drunk?" And it's like, "Oh, do you guys hear that?" Right? And it's not a judgement, but it's just like, "Oh, did you hear what you just said?" But again, that's how we lived for so long. So a huge part of changing the conversation is becoming aware of the conversation. And I think, you know, we've hit working out, we've hit food, but it's also like, how are we talking about those things not only with ourselves, but with our friends?

Lesley Logan 24:37  

Yep. Yeah, that's, that's really important. I think like you said awareness and I think that's exactly where people can start. Right? Like, if you're if once you become aware that you're having those thoughts that you're using it as control or you're you're labeling it. We have Lena Franklin on, she's amazing. She said she was doing this whole thing and she's like, "First become aware and then you become enlightened." And then I was like, "I'm so sorry, can you tell what enlightenment is? Because I don't have time to sit on a hill in India and meditate for my for a week." So she's like, she said, "Oh, no, once you're aware, you are, in fact enlightened." And I was like, "Oh, well, then I can get enlightened all day long. I can be aware all day long." And so I think that's like, you know, you said journaling. And I think a lot of times we you're right, we do want to, we don't want to actually deal with ourselves when actually, like, want to become aware of the thoughts, because then we have to actually do something about it. But journaling is a one way to just like, it's a very easy way to just like put the thoughts out, I do morning pages, and you don't have to read them, you can actually just write them and never read them again. And so I think even just like getting those things out, it allows the change to start happening because you're aware of the conversation in your own head.

Jenny Schatzle 25:50  

Part of that, like, I'm huge, you know, from my Instagram, I'm huge on journaling. I'm huge on like, five minutes, same thing. I do every morning. I don't read them, I you can do whatever you want with your notebooks. But here's also with women. Whenever I post about journaling, people always message and ask, "Well, what should I write about? How should I do it? Wait, where do you put your..." Like, it's the perfection like, (Lesley: Yeah) we all the you know, you talk a lot about this, it's action is what creates clarity. But for us, we paralyze, we are paralyzed, and we stop ourselves because we all want to do it right. And these are the rules have been following our whole lives. Like, you've got to eat this way, you have to work out this way. You have to here's your journal topic with your perfect punctuation. Like, when I write, there's no grammar. Sometimes you can't even read the ending. Like, it's literally, but we have to also get the point, get through the point of just doing it, like stop trying to do everything right. Just do it, just move, any movement is good movement, journaling is movement. Right? Like and that's about changing the conversation of stopping yourself and thinking, "What is the next thing I can do? That's going to help me move forward." So I love when you said, you know, it's awareness and enlightenment, I love that. So my I guess you could put my enlightenment is, and I just said it a couple minutes ago is, so you have awareness around this. Like, for instance, I always say this, too. This is sounds harsh, but when we judge other people's bodies, and we all know this, when we judge other people, you know, it's our own stuff. But only people with body issues, judge other people's bodies. (Lesley: Mm-hmm) And that's just true. And so as somebody who has body issues, I can say that. And so when you're judging somebody else, whether it's their body, whether it's what they're wearing, whether it's what they're doing, because these things come up, we are humans, and we are going to judge, right. If somebody says, "Well, I don't judge." Yes, okay, this is what we do. But the enlightenment part is having awareness of all that thought comes up, and then stopping yourself and saying, because the first thought we, the first thought we think, is what has been ingrained in us. The second is who we want to be. So I catch myself when I'm judging someone else, or when I'm harshly judging myself. And I think, "Oh, there's that voice." And then I think, "Oh, yeah, that is not who I want to be. Like why is it my business? Why do I care what she's wearing? Why do I care what her buy? Oh, that's my stuff." Okay, move on. And so, like not getting guilt and shame around us judging other people or judging ourselves, but stopping ourselves instead and remind me, "Oh, yeah, that's old programming. That's not who I want to be. And that's not what I want to pass on to not only my children, but the other women around me," which is such a huge part of this. So again, I was a great example. I was with a woman this weekend. And this woman was she was randomly talking about her peloton and she loves it. And she's, like, "So good at it." And so she said, "I was talking to my friend, and my friend said, I don't think your bike is calibrated, right? Because you are like, you know, so good." And she goes, Well, "I'm, I'm a big lady. Like, I'm ..." And she's telling me this, and she uses the word "big." And I thought she was gonna say it's because she's so strong, right? And (Lesley: Right) she has it. She goes, "What I was telling her I was, I'm just a big lady. I'm just way bigger than you." And then wait, I didn't say anything. And we kind of continue the conversation. And then she, we started talking about like, things that people said to us when young, when we were younger, and she goes, "Yeah, you know, a lot of my body stuffs, ten stems from being called big." And so I stopped and I said, "Do you realize that when you were telling me the story about you on the Peloton, you kept saying you're a big woman." And she did not even realize she was calling herself big. (Lesley: Yeah) And I said, "I, I thought you were going to stay strong." So another part of this and I talked about this in my, my TED Talk is, and she brought this up. A lot of times we say things because we think people are thinking it about us. Right? So like if we've gained weight and we're going to be around friends and we're we're like afraid that they're gonna think we've gained weight. We might say it before anybody else does. (Lesley: Right) Because this to let them know, we know. Right? (Lesley: Yeah) She said that. She's like, "Well, I am a big woman and I know people think that about me. And so I want them to know that I know I'm big." And I stopped her right there. And I said, "When you were telling that story, I thought you were gonna say strong, because in my eyes, your strong ass woman, and so yeah, you probably do put in whatever you're doing." And she's like, "Oh." I said, "You said, 'they', I wasn't thinking that." (Lesley: Yeah) And so we, we, we already put in our minds what other people are thinking about our bodies. Which one, they might not be (Lesley: Right) and two, who cares if they are? Like, why are we, why are we living our lives based on what other people think of our bodies, and most of the time, those people aren't happy in their bodies.

Lesley Logan 30:39  

Right. And so we're all just like wandering around trying to make other people happy about our bodies, and they're so focused on their own unhappiness with their body, they're not even paying attention to you. (Lesley laughs) It is, (Jenny: Yes) it is like it is this in... And all of this is keeping us from doing anything that is actually purposeful on this planet, like we are (Jenny: Yeah) all here to do something like we wouldn't be made if we didn't have something to add to the, to the universe and to what's going on. And I just it's really frustrating. I love that you pointed out it was much earlier in the conversation we've had other people bring this up that we you know, we outsource the good and bad days, we outsource our worth when we get on a scale. And like the, the truth is, is that like, you can't like, it's like how do you, how can you like, actually tackle these amazing things that you want to do in life? And then you're like, "I'm gonna get on scale. I'm having a bad day. Can't do those things now." It's like so crazy to me. And if it hurts me and I and the perfectionist thing with the journaling, okay, so full disclosure, I was that girl with my therapist, April, March in March 2020. She's like, "You need a journal." I was like, "No problem. I got journals." So we come back the next thing I said, "Okay, so I'm so sorry." Is there like a prompt I'm supposed to be answering like, "What am I supposed to write? What like, what, what am I supposed to be writing on this page? Like, what do I do here?" And she's like, "Okay, you don't need to read the book Artist's Way because I'm just full permission guilt, just be a perfectionist about it. So just go write three pages and don't read them." And I was like, "Okay, so I have ..." And I, it's so funny because I'll you know, like, attracts like, so the person that I am the recovering perfectionist and overachiever, I attract all these people. And they're like, "Okay, so how do I journal?" And so I laugh because I'm like, "Yep, I know." It's like this thing we all want to be right. And we want to have the right body, which, who knows what that is. (Jenny: Yeah) And, and we want to journal correctly. And it's like, just write something and you don't have to be able to reread it. Like, people are like, "Oh, I saved my journal. So I can read them someday." And I'm like, "Really?" I don't think so. I think I just, it's okay. (Jenny: Yeah) It's gonna be fine if I don't remember what I wrote down last year. (Lesley laughs)

Jenny Schatzle 32:42  

I like to say too, um, because yeah, it's an if you like to keep a memory of it. Do it. If you don't, don't. And it's, it's truly like, the journaling part is truly about literally, I always say, like, throw up all your words on paper, like, release all the thoughts in your brain out. Like, it could be positive negative credit, like, just, it's a way to just release. (Lesley: Mm-hmm) And yeah, but again, it's control. And this is what (Lesley: Yeah) we do as women.

Lesley Logan 33:08  

Yeah. And, uh, you know, in, but like, it's like a really great way to have this awesome conversation. If you're really trying to get aware of your thoughts. It is crazy if you just dream, right? If you just read it out. I, I was like, "Oh, I'm afraid of bah, bah, bah." I didn't even know that. Like, it wasn't even I mean, I'm obviously new it is in my brain, but like, I didn't actually have that awareness around it. So it is really, it is a really amazing thing. I wanted to talk about you have two TED Talks. So first of all, like, that's frickin amazing. And what, where they can find them on the TED, YouTube? Or I'll put them in the show notes. But like, are they out and about people can rewatch them?

Jenny Schatzle 33:45  

They are. Yes. Yeah. You just like Google, Jenny Schatzle TED Talk, and they both come up. And so yeah, it was it... Yes. And it's kind of all talking about this, and just changing the conversation. And so, you know, my, my whole purpose is just to help women feel good about themselves, (Lesley: Mm-hmm) and show up as their authentic self. Because when we do, we give permission to other women. And so it's like you so people always say, you know, I love to, your very, like, let's put this in action, because I'm also like, I am in the self help space. I am also an advocate of there's only so many books and and I like I read also, I go to the retreats, I do I continue to do the work because we all have to, but at some point, you do have to put it in action. And I met people they just continually like we've got to do and I'm all about easy, actionable things we can do every single day. And one of those things is show up in our authentic... as our authentic self, because it gives other people permission. And so let's start with like, okay, working out and what we wear so trying to heal our body. And again, I say all this stuff. It's it's a really hard process. You know, it's like, you don't just wake up one day and you're like, "I don't diet anymore and I frickin love my body. And my kids are gonna never have issues." Like, no. Alright, let's just start there. And so it's a daily process of unlearning. I like to say we need to learn and relearn. So you have to start questioning, like, "Who did teach me how to hate my body? Why do I feel so uncomfortable in my body? Where did I learn this? What is the messaging that I want to change for myself, so I do not pass this on." (Lesley: Yeah) So one thing is we have to start by, and I truly believe wearing the clothes that we never thought we could. So for years, I didn't wear shorts. And I didn't wear tube tops. Because the two things in my life, my dad always told me, I was built like a linebacker. So I have really broad shoulders and very strong legs. And but for years, I hated my shoulders, I hated my legs. And I never wore shorts. So it's like, even if you have to start wearing them around the house. (Lesley: Yeah) Right? If you don't want to wear a swimsuit, outside, start wearing it in your house. We have to start putting on the things that we told ourselves for so long, we couldn't wear. And even if it's got to start in your house, every time I feel slightly uncomfortable, I'm going to be honest, it's really empowering. I have to have that conversation with myself. Like, if I'm going to wear shorts, or you know, something that shows my stomach. And I'm like, "You know what, I'm going out into the world to show other women how to show up as themselves because I'm showing up as myself." (Lesley: Yeah) And that's where it needs like, I'm not showing up to look good for anybody else. This is empowering to me, because I need to show up as my authentic self and and love what I have. Because for a long time, I'm going to be honest, most of my life I didn't. (Lesley: Yeah) And the proof that when we look back, like I think we can all relate to this, we look back at pictures and think, "Oh my God, like I was so thin, or I was so this. And I didn't even realize that." 

Lesley Logan 36:51  

Oh, totally. (Jenny: That's ...) That's crazy. I mean that's ... (Jenny: That's proof ...) That we weren't ... (Jenny: I'm sorry) but ... I'm so sorry. That you were not gonna be happy when you're leaner.

Jenny Schatzle 37:00  

Yes, well, that's just proof right there. That is, so when we look back at pictures of ourselves and think, "Oh, my God, it was so thin or I was so fat, or I was so this." I didn't even realize that's proof, it's not about the body. (Lesley: Right) That's it right there. (Lesley: Yeah) So that's, you know, that's one place to start.

Lesley Logan 37:18  

Well, I love your honesty there. And it's true. Like I you know, Facebook is really good at showing me pictures of 10 years ago, and I suffered from some crazy stomach like really bad, like, anytime I ate, I just was in pain, and no one could figure it out. (Jenny: Oh) But what ended up happening is I got thinner, right? Because when you, when you're barely eating, so your stomach doesn't hurt, you get thinner. And words of affirmation is my love language. So all of a sudden, I'm getting tons of compliments (Jenny: Yeah) because I lived in LA and I was at a high end gym. And so then people are coming to work out with me because like, "Oh, I want to look like you." And I'm like, "So I just want you to know like, I barely get to eat anything like this is not healthy." And but of course that gets in your head because then as soon as my stomach started feel better, I started to gain weight. Why? Because I'm eating nutrition like I'm absorbing food and getting calories in and the thoughts that went through my head were so ridiculous. The conversation I had like, "Oh my God, my clients are gonna leave me because I've gained 10 pounds." (Jenny: Yeah) Never mind that I'm not anorexic looking anymore. And that's probably looks better. So when I look at those pictures that come up, I'm like, "This is so sad. This is what so many people gave me compliments on, "This girl looks exhausted. She looks tired. She doesn't she looks weak, doesn't even look strong, you know." And like it was it was such an interesting turn of events of my life like I've had to because I build the more my stomach feels better, the more weight of gain, I actually really do like how I look, it is very different than I ever thought, it is a very different body than I ever had. But it's true. I wear crop tops now. I didn't wear them when I was 118 pounds. (Lesley laughs) I didn't (Jenny: Yeah) wear them. I was like, "Oh my God, I'm not like there's all like a role here." Like, no, I wear them now. And I'm like, "Whatever, it doesn't even matter." But I am I film videos and workout videos for a living. And when you do flexion things just roll over. And for whatever reason, it took me a long conversation myself, like you're just going to have the roll over your pants, and it's just going to show and people are going to be fine with it. And actually, it is one of the best fucking things that could ever happen because people feel safe in my thing. I had to have a conversation myself, I had to get over it. And some days I bad body days too. And I'm like, "wow, that's not what I thought that looked like." But but the truth (Jenny: Yeah) is, is that for most people, they're like, "Oh, thanks for showing a real body doing movement."

Jenny Schatzle 39:34  

And this conversation is changing, you know, and I want to acknowledge that both of us are in, you know, privileged and according to you know, the world privileged (Jenny: Yeah) leaner bodies. And (Lesley: Yeah) but I think no matter what size, keep women are struggling and (Lesley: Yeah) so in this conversation is changing. And so it's also up to us to change that conversation. So even as I say this but I mean it in the most loving way is like, we kind of kind of got to call each other out, but in a loving way, like not being mean, like, "Oh, you should say that" because that's I don't really that's how we learn. But really commenting on other people's bodies is really dangerous. You just said that. And it's, I mean, I have two little girls. Are you kidding? Of course, I'm gonna be like, "You're so cute. You're so be cute. Oh, my God." Like, I'm trying to even you know, change that conversation. And it's funny, like Gloria Simon says, you know, the truth will set you free, but first it's gonna piss you off. And even in the beginning, I'm like, "Ah, now I can't say people cute, like, what can I say?" But if you really think about it, when we compliment people on their bodies, I had the same situation with a friend, she had cancer and lost 30 pounds. And she came up to me and said, "I can't believe how many people tell me, I look great. I have cancer. Like, that's why I lost the weight." And the other thing to that is when we compliment our friends on their bodies, especially when we make such a huge deal, like, "Oh, my God, what are you doing? Oh, my God, you look so amazing." A lot of times that change isn't sustainable. Because change, a body change takes a long time for it to, you know, to sustain. And if you lose a lot of weight, very quickly, it's not sustainable. So one, you're getting all this praise for looking so good, which a lot of time it's taking you out of your life to make this happen. But chances are, you're gonna gain that weight back. And when you do as the person who was complimented now the stories in your head about next time, you have to go out and see your friends. And if you've put on any weight, you are finding anything to wear, you're depressed, you're sad, you're frustrated, you're all up in your head, because all you're thinking is, "I put on weight. Now they're gonna see me differently there." And so, taking that just like when you see your friends, instead of commenting on their body, even if they've lost weight, start by being like, "You know what, I really love being around you. You know what? Your energy is radiant today. You know what that outfit is powerful." Like just like really authentic things that we mean instead of making it like telling somebody talk about words of affirmation, telling somebody that you missed them and love them and are just in happiness to be around them. That's a better compliment than "Man, you look thin."

Lesley Logan 42:13  

Yeah, that is, oh my gosh, Jenny, I could talk to you for hours. I really want to but (Lesley laughs) but (Jenny: I feel the same way. I love you so much.) I know. Okay, where can they find you, follow you, watch your reels, your lives? I'm not gonna lie. You're one with the covered about the women with the filters and the makeup. I watched that three times and showed my husband and and the one with your with your girls were like they had put markers on their face. I was like ... (Jenny: Oh, that was a good one.) That was amazing on (Jenny: That was a good one.) photo day. (Jenny: Yeah) Like, you know what? This woman is walking the truth right here. So where can, where can they hang out with you, find you and all the things?

Jenny Schatzle 42:50  

I love it. I'm on Instagram and Facebook, I'll be on and YouTube. But I will be honest, I'm mostly on Instagram. I have like dipped my toe in Tik Tok but I'm also 42 and I'm like, you know, there's only so much social media I can do. So come to Instagram. And I you know, it is authentically me. I very much posting about real and raw. It's a lot of mom life. It's a lot of conversations around body image, but also confidence within women and movement. So I would love for everyone to join me over there. And I do answer my messages. So message me, message me any questions, or (Lesley: Yeah) anything that you want to talk about.

Lesley Logan 43:25  

And it's just @jennyschatzle on Instagram, right? Just... (Jenny: Yes) Yeah. (Jenny: Yeah. Thank you.) Alright, so bold, executable, targeted or intrinsic. You gave us so many. If you were listening, I got you can, you know, go to our show notes. And you can literally highlight half of there's like a ton of BE IT once. But what are a few, what are a few that you have that people could do to change the conversation with themselves so that they can actually like do their frickin life?

Jenny Schatzle 43:50  

I love it. All right, my easy, actionable takeaways. So many things. All right. So we did talk a lot about this, but I'm going to add one more. So one, I would love for everyone to really start changing the conversation around food and themselves. So having the awareness of when it comes up, of when you want to call yourself fat or big or need to get back on it or change that conversation. Be a little gentler with yourself and just realize that that conversation isn't helping you. Second, the food thing, just really realizing how much you label food, good or bad, healthy, not healthy. You know, clean eating. I mean dirty eating is I want to like not even a thing. Just really try to I'm gonna and this is really hard. Kind to stop talking about food too much. And this is again going to sound harsh, but we are smart, strong, powerful women. We should not be sitting around talking about how much we ate and how much we hate our bodies. We want to see that the table. We've got to change the conversation, pull up the chair and make our presence known and we have more important things to talk about than the burrito, and that our pants don't fit. And so when we change that conversation, we take our power back. And not only do we take our power back, we show other women how to do it. And that's the conversation and the cycle we pass on. So in order to break the cycle, we have to be aware of what we're saying, not blame ourselves for it, but choose a different path. So when that awareness comes up, you can decide, "Am I going to continue that conversation? Or am I going to start a new one?" And our last thing is, I am going to invite our friends to journal, without, I call it free writing, you know, you call it more morning pages, whatever we want to call it, but there's no grammar, there's no time, you could literally write one page and walk away from it. Um, and along with that is kind of talking about changing the conversation. Give that voice in your head, I think I say this pretty much on every podcast. But this is also how we realize when old programming is coming up. Do me a favor and give that negative voice in your head a name. And so you make it like a almost like a person. So when that voice for me comes up, that's like, "Oh, Jenny, you know, you're getting, your thighs are looking big. And you probably shouldn't wear those shorts. And maybe you should cut back on the food." And I'm like, "Oh, not today, Tiffany. Not today." Alright, so I give ... and I'm like, "Tiffany, wo... No, I, yeah, I hear you." And I want to remind people, I don't think that I don't think that negative self. And that negative talk ever 100% goes away. But the stronger you get in your healthy self and your healthy voice, that voice gets louder, and it's able to recognize Tiffany and be like, "Oh, yeah, Tiffany, I hear you. That's not what we're choosing today." And so name that voice, and be able to clarify that Tiffany is not Jenny in 2022.

Lesley Logan 46:59  

Yeah. Oh, my goodness. I fucking love you so much, Jenny. (Jenny laughs) (Jenny: I love you too.) Yeah, I love you. So everyone how, you got to tell us how you're going to use these tips in your life. You're going to tell us who you named your your voice in your head that is giving you all that old programming by screenshotting this podcast, tagging @jennyschatzle and the @be_it_pod on Instagram and let us know. Alright, until next time, Be It Till You See It.

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.

Brad Crowell 47:59  

It's written produced, filmed and recorded by your host Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan 48:10  

Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell 48:15  

Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 48:23  

Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell 48:35  

And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai