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What if some of what we still teach about breast anatomy, milk supply, pumping, and milk ejection is based on an outdated understanding of how the lactating breast actually works?
In this episode of Behind the Latch, Margaret sits down with internationally recognized human lactation researcher Dr. Donna Geddes to explore what more than two decades of imaging the living, lactating breast has taught us.
Dr. Geddes’s groundbreaking ultrasound research challenged anatomical models that had remained largely unchanged for more than 160 years. Her work has helped demonstrate that the lactating breast is far more variable—and far more complex—than the simplified diagrams many clinicians were originally taught.
Together, Margaret and Dr. Geddes discuss how these discoveries translate into real clinical practice.
Margaret and Dr. Geddes discuss:
Throughout the conversation, one theme keeps returning:
Human lactation does not fit neatly into a checklist.
Breasts vary between people. The two breasts of the same person can behave differently. Milk production is influenced by anatomy, development, metabolic health, blood flow, hormones, inflammation, infant behavior, milk removal, and many other interacting factors.
Understanding the science should help us individualize care—not create another rigid set of rules.
What’s Coming Next?Dr. Geddes also shares some of the research underway within her team, including work examining:
The goal is not simply to understand lactation better—it is to translate that science into tools clinicians can actually use.
About Dr. Donna GeddesDr. Donna Geddes is a leading researcher in human lactation based at The University of Western Australia in Perth, Western Australia. Her research has used technologies including ultrasound, Doppler imaging, human milk analysis, and other advanced laboratory techniques to investigate breast anatomy, milk production, milk ejection, infant feeding, and lactation physiology.
Her work has played a major role in reshaping our understanding of the anatomy and function of the lactating breast.
Learn MoreYour Next Steps:
We were taught to keep our hands in our pockets. Maya Bolman was taught the opposite — by her great-aunt, a midwife in Belarus, who could take an engorged, aching breast and leave it soft in an hour. In this episode, I sit down with Maya to talk about the skill most of us were never trained in: what to actually do with our hands.
Maya Bolman is an IBCLC in Cleveland, Ohio, with 26 years in hospital lactation care and a second home at Breastfeeding Medicine of Northeast Ohio, where she works alongside Dr. Ann Witt. She's the clinician who named Therapeutic Breast Massage in Lactation (TBML), published the research behind it, and travels the world teaching manual skills to lactation professionals. In this conversation, she breaks down the physiology of engorgement (hint: it's not just milk), why we massage milk down but swelling up, and the deceptively simple technique she calls breast gymnastics. If you've ever felt underprepared the second a parent's breast is hard, painful, and stuck, this one is going to change how you practice.
What You'll Learn:
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Your Next Steps:
Music: The Magnifiers — "My Time Traveling Machine"
Low milk supply might be the most common concern we field—and one of the hardest things in lactation to actually measure. In this episode I sit down with researcher Dr. Katie Kivlighan to separate what we can quantify from what we're guessing at, and to look at the tools and technologies that are about to change how we assess it.
Episode Summary"Low milk supply" gets used as a catch-all, but it isn't one thing—and treating it like one thing is part of why families get the wrong support. Dr. Katie Kivlighan, co-author of Measuring Low Milk Supply: Methods and Implications for Lactation Research and Clinical Practice (Journal of Human Lactation, 2026), joins me to walk through the difference between primary, secondary, and perceived low supply, and why our measurement methods have never fully caught up with the problem.
We get into what the evidence actually supports right now: test weights, milk transfer, and biomarkers like sodium and conductance—plus the emerging technologies (bioimpedance, at-home milk sodium testing) that could give us objective data we've never had at the bedside. We also talk honestly about the flip side: how devices and social media can feed parental anxiety, how normal infant behavior gets misread as a supply problem, and where clinical judgment still has to lead. If you support families navigating supply concerns, this one is about sharpening how you assess, how you reassure, and how you decide when a number actually matters.
What You'll LearnMusic: The Magnifiers — "My Time Traveling Machine"
In this episode, Dr. Lisa Stellwagen shares the journey of establishing a hospital-based milk bank, the science behind donor milk, and the future of infant nutrition and milk banking. Discover how policies, safety standards, and community efforts are transforming neonatal care and supporting vulnerable infants.
Chapters:
Resources
Human Milk Banking Association of North America (HMBANA)
Promoting Human Milk and Breastfeeding for the Very Low Birth Weight Infant: Clinical Report
Find a Milk Bank
Guest Links
HMBANA-Dr. Stellwagen
UC Health Milk Bank
Connect with Margaret
Email: [email protected]
Instagram: @margaretsalty
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Music by: The Magnifiers – My Time Traveling Machine
In this conversation, Dr. Elizabeth Kar discusses her research on breastfeeding promotion and the challenges faced by breastfeeding families during the COVID-19 pandemic, particularly the impact of reduced lactation support and the infant formula shortage. She emphasizes the importance of lactation consultants and community support in successful breastfeeding, critiques the marketing strategies of formula companies, and calls for better policies to protect and promote breastfeeding. In this conversation, Margaret Saltysiak and Elizabeth Kar discuss the complexities surrounding infant feeding choices, particularly the challenges of breastfeeding and formula feeding. They highlight the fragility of the infant feeding infrastructure in the U.S., the lessons learned from the pandemic regarding breastfeeding support, and the critical need for paid family leave to support new parents. The discussion also emphasizes the importance of addressing the needs of vulnerable populations and ensuring equitable access to breastfeeding support and resources.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Elizabeth Kar and Her Work
03:03 Exploring the Triple Threat to Breastfeeding Families
06:00 The Impact of COVID-19 on Lactation Support
09:02 The Role of Lactation Consultants
11:59 The Formula Shortage and Its Effects
14:58 The Marketing Influence of Formula Companies
18:06 The Need for Better Infant Feeding Policies
21:43 The Challenges of Infant Feeding Choices
24:15 Fragility of Infant Feeding Infrastructure
27:20 Lessons from the Pandemic on Breastfeeding Support
30:25 The Need for Paid Family Leave
33:48 Addressing Vulnerable Populations in Breastfeeding Support
Guest
Elizabeth Kar, RDN, PhD, IBCLC
Triple Threat or Mere Inconvenience? Exploring the Effect of COVID-19
Precautions, Lack of Access to Lactation Care, and the Infant Formula
Shortage on Breastfeeding Behavior of Parents in the Midwest of the
United States
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Music by: The Magnifiers – My Time Traveling Machine
Margaret interviews, Molly Waymouth, a senior policy analyst at RAND, and they discuss her research on informal milk sharing, its prevalence, risks, and policy implications. They explores how systemic barriers and economic factors influence families' choices and what can be done to improve access to safe, affordable donor milk and lactation support.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Conversation
05:37 Molly's Background and Research Focus
07:10 Exploring Milk Sharing Practices
09:35 The Economics of Donor Milk
11:23 Understanding the Support Gaps
13:48 Equity and Access in Milk Sharing
16:27 Risks of Informal Milk Sharing
16:50 The Need for Comprehensive Support
18:34 Innovative Approaches to Milk Sharing
18:50 Designing an Ideal Support System
20:27 Conclusion and Future Directions
21:22 outro.mp3
Resources
JAMA Open Network Publication - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2841048
RAND Corporation - https://www.rand.org/
LinkedIn Profile of Molly Waymouth - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mollywaymouth/
Connect with Margaret
mail: [email protected]
Instagram: @margaretsalty
Facebook: Margaret Salty
Music by: The Magnifiers – My Time Traveling Machine
In this episode of Behind the Latch, Margaret Salty interviews Trillitye Paullin, CEO and co-founder of Free to Feed, who shares her groundbreaking work translating emerging research on food reactivity in breastfeeding into practical clinical guidance.
Together, they unpack one of the most misunderstood topics in lactation: how dietary proteins transfer into breast milk and what that actually means for managing elimination diets. Trillitye explains why the long-standing belief that proteins remain in breast milk for weeks is not supported by current evidence—and how confusing “transfer timing” with “healing timing” has led to unnecessary dietary restriction and early weaning.
They also explore the realities of non-IgE-mediated food allergies, why traditional allergy testing often fails these families, and how IBCLCs can more effectively assess, manage, and refer these cases.
This conversation offers a practical, evidence-based framework that has the potential to change how clinicians support breastfeeding dyads navigating food reactivity.
Key Takeaways for CliniciansTrillitye Paullin, PhD, CEO & Co-Founder, Free to Feed
Free to Feed
Supporting Families as They Navigate Infant Food Allergies
Connect with Margaret📬 Email: [email protected]
📸 Instagram: @margaretsalty
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Music by: The Magnifiers – My Time Traveling Machine
In this episode of Behind the Latch, Margaret Salty interviews Victoria Fonville, MS, PhD candidate in Nutrition at UNC Greensboro, about her recent scoping review on lactation during perinatal bereavement.
Together, they explore what the research actually tells us about lactation after infant loss—from the lived experiences of bereaved families to the gaps in care from healthcare providers. Victoria shares the key findings from her paper, including the four major areas studied—producing milk, support, stopping lactation, and donating milk—and the six themes that emerged: hurting, lacking, valuing, succeeding, connecting, and redeeming.
They discuss how lactation can serve as a powerful source of connection and identity for grieving mothers, why suppression is often presented as the default (and why that’s problematic), and how milk donation can be experienced as a deeply meaningful and even healing process for families navigating loss.
This episode challenges the way we approach bereavement care and emphasizes the importance of presenting all options—so families can make informed decisions that align with their goals and their grief.
Key Takeaways for CliniciansVictoria Fonville, MS, PhD Candidate in Nutrition, University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Lactation During Perinatal Bereavement From the Perspective of Families and Support Providers: A Scoping Review
Connect with Margaret📬 Email: [email protected]
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Music by: The Magnifiers – My Time Traveling Machine
Dr. Bode shares his journey into human milk research and the founding of the Human Milk Institute—the only institute in the world dedicated entirely to studying human milk in all its complexity. Together, they explore how human milk research is evolving from isolated disciplines into a collaborative, systems-based science that integrates molecular biology, clinical care, and public health.
The conversation dives deep into human milk oligosaccharides (HMOs), the limitations of reductionist thinking in lactation science, and the urgent need to translate research into real-world clinical impact. Dr. Bode also shares his vision for the future, including the development of “lactology” as a formal field of study and what it would take to truly normalize breastfeeding on a global scale.
Key Takeaways for Clinicians
Guest
Dr. Lars Bode, PhD
Director, Human Milk Institute
Human Milk Institute
Triton Giving Day 04.29.2026Connect with Margaret
📬 Email: [email protected]
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Music by: The Magnifiers – My Time Traveling Machine
The origin of the “high lipase” breastmilk myth and how it spread through the lactation community
Why biologically it does not make sense that some mothers produce excess lipase in milk
What lipase actually does in human milk and why it is critical for infant fat digestion
What parents are actually noticing when milk smells “soapy,” “metallic,” or “rancid”
How riboflavin oxidation and free radical reactions may contribute to off flavors in stored milk
Why exposure to light, oxygen, and heat accelerates nutrient degradation
Simple strategies for protecting expressed milk during storage
The role of vitamin C and antioxidants in preventing oxidation
Why scalding milk may damage valuable nutrients and enzymes
How maternal diet influences the fatty acid profile of breastmilk
The relationship between omega-3 and omega-6 fats in human milk
Why formula cannot truly replicate human milk oligosaccharides or fatty acid complexity
How breastfeeding exposes infants to diverse food flavors that shape lifelong eating patterns
Why maternal nutrition matters—but breastfeeding remains resilient even with imperfect diets
Future research questions about the human milk metabolome and maternal diet
Key Takeaways for CliniciansThe “high lipase milk” explanation for off-smelling stored milk may not be supported biologically or experimentally.
Off flavors may instead result from nutrient oxidation, particularly involving riboflavin and free radical reactions.
Protecting milk from light, oxygen, and heat exposure may help reduce degradation.
Scalding milk may stop some reactions but can also damage enzymes, vitamins, and bioactive components.
Maternal intake of vitamin C and antioxidants may influence milk stability during storage.
Maternal diet does influence certain components of milk, especially fatty acid composition and water-soluble vitamins.
The fatty acid profile of milk largely reflects the mother’s dietary fat intake.
Human milk oligosaccharides vary between mothers and environments, making them difficult to replicate in formula.
Even when milk has an unusual smell, it is often still safe for infants, and strategies like dilution with fresh milk can help babies accept it.
Human milk remains one of the most biologically protected food systems in nature, even when maternal diets are imperfect.
GuestDr. Jimi Francis, PhD, RD, IBCLC
https://drjimi.net/
References referred to in the discussion about Lipase in Human Milk:
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Chappell, J. E., Francis, T., & Clandinin, M. T. (1985). Vitamin A and E content of human milk at early stages of lactation. Early Human Development, 11(2), 157–167. https://doi.org/10.1016/0378-3782(85)90103-3
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Demmelmair, H., & Koletzko, B. (2018). Lipids in human milk. Best Practice and Research: Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 32(1), 57–68. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.beem.2017.11.002
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Music by: The Magnifiers – My Time Traveling Machine
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