On the Gist, the Belknap case is clear precedent.

In the Interview, it's round two of vaccine talk. Mike and Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, a former Detroit health director and epidemiologist, talk about equity and the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccine. They also discuss why we shouldn't heroicize the pharmaceutical industry, using the issue of the sixth dose as a compelling example. El-Sayed's new book Medicare for All: A Citizen's Guide is out now. He's also the host of America Dissected from Crooked Media, among many other projects.

In the spiel, Trump's defense tested a few losing arguments.

Email us at [email protected]

Podcast production by Margaret Kelley and Cheyna Roth.

Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices