S5E20 Volsung Poems: Two Poems of Atli (Part 5)

David continues his series of not so short solo episodes, deep diving into the Poems of the Poetic Edda which inspired the Saga of the Volsungs.
In this episode:
The Lay of Atli
The Greenlandic Lay of Atli

These poems connect the legends of Atli the Hun, to his wife Gudrun and the poems of Sigurd and his decent from the Norse Gods. 

Atli kills Gudrun's brothers. Some would say to avenge Sigurd and Brunhilde. Others would say to obtain Fafnir's Hoard of Gold. Either way, it is the curse of Andvari's gold, leading to the deaths of generations of fathers and sons.

We see in these poems the author favors the Giukung family, Gudrun, Hogni and Gunnar. Where previous poems placed them as the betrayers of Sigurd, Sigurd has been mostly forgotten here. Gudrun does grieve the loss of her great love, but she also hangs on to the love of her brothers and the bonds of kinship.

The Giukung family are Goths, a Germanic Tribe. Sigurd joined their clan. But he betrayed the love of Brunhilde, of the family of Atli and the Huns. Gunnar is too smart to allow the hoard of Fafnir to fall into the hands of the Huns. It is returned to the bottom of the Rhine River. But the curse lives through Gudrun and she sees to the death of her two sons by Atli. In the next and final short, she will be remarried to a third king, and see to the deaths of two more sons.

The Greenlandic Lay of Atli seems to be a fan fiction. Another take on the same story. The Greenlanders wished to see Gunnar and Hogni as Greenlanders, falling into the same trap of Atli. Blindly trusting fate and the bonds of kindship.



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Our podcast is part of The Walled Garden Podcast Network. The Walled Garden is committed to the pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, Virtue, and the Divine, wherever it might be found. Visit thewalledgarden.com to learn more.

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Shawn has launched a solo podcast: Sagas w/Shawn – Gods and Kings.
Don't worry, Between Two Ravens is not ending. This new series explores legendary and historical figures from Norse mythology and beyond, tracing the line between gods and kings, myth and history. Sort of like my solo episodes on "historical" figures with more of my stupid voice.
I'll eventually discuss other world mythologies and may even branch out into fictional worlds as well, like the Elder Scrolls, Legend of Zelda, A Song of Ice and Fire, and Lord of the Rings to name a few. If you've enjoyed the storytelling and research we bring to Between Two Ravens, you’ll feel right at home. Check out Sagas w/Shawn on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Sagas w/Shawn - Gods and Kings

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sagaswshawn/
Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@sagaswshawn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@SagasWithShawn

Ways to support us:If you have been enjoying our show, please write a 5 star review on itunes to help spread our podcast to a wider audience:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/between-two-ravens-a-norse-mythology-podcast/id1604263830
Buy Shawn a Beer or Coffee: https://ko-fi.com/tworavenpodcast
Follow us for updates or send us a message on Instagram:
Instagram: (@TwoRavensPodcast): https://www.instagram.com/tworavenspodcast/
Check out David’s writing: Walled Garden (https://thewalledgarden.com/davidalexander)
Our podcast is part of The Walled Garden Podcast Network. The Walled Garden is committed to the pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, Virtue, and the Divine, wherever it might be found. Visit thewalledgarden.com to learn more.
This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5910787/advertisement

In this episode, Shawn and David wrap up the series on Ragnar Lobrok (cue dozens of solo episodes where Shawn and David have not in fact wrapped up their series on Ragnar Lodbrok), discussing chapters 18 - 20. In tandem with "The Tale of Ragnars Sons", you find out about the fates of the sons of Ragnar, including their deaths. There are then a couple of chapters of some nameless characters (well one is named), who in later years begin discussing the the heroic brothers either in their cups while getting drunk, or looking at monuments set to be reminders of them.

The pair explore the descendents of these heroes, leading to the historical origins of 3 Scandinavian countries, Sweden, Denmark, and Norway, tying together the legendary sagas with historical figures like Gorm the Old, Harald Fairhair, and Eirik the Victorious. There is also an interesting passing of the torch where in 1066 William the Conqueror supposedly dug up the grave of Ivar the Boneless (deciding to burn his body), which may represent the end of Anglo-Saxon England and the Viking Age.

Ways to support us:If you have been enjoying our show, please write a 5 star review on itunes to help spread our podcast to a wider audience:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/between-two-ravens-a-norse-mythology-podcast/id1604263830
Buy Shawn a Beer or Coffee: https://ko-fi.com/tworavenpodcast
Follow us for updates or send us a message on Instagram:
Instagram: (@TwoRavensPodcast): https://www.instagram.com/tworavenspodcast/
Check out David’s writing: Walled Garden (https://thewalledgarden.com/davidalexander)
Our podcast is part of The Walled Garden Podcast Network. The Walled Garden is committed to the pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, Virtue, and the Divine, wherever it might be found. Visit thewalledgarden.com to learn more.
This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5910787/advertisement

S5E17 Volsung Poems: The Children of Giuki and Budli (Part 5)

David continues his series of not so short solo episodes, deep diving into the Poems of the Poetic Edda which inspired the Saga of the Volsungs.
In this episode:
The Second Poem of Gudrun.
The Death of the Niflungs.
Oddrun's Lament.
These relatively late poems bridge The First Poem of Gudrun to the poems about Atli and the early poem Lay of Hamdir (coming soon). 

The children of Giuki are Gunnar, Hogni, and Gudrun. And as we saw previously, Gudrun has sworn vengance against her brothers for killing her beloved Sigurd. 
The children of Budli are Brynhild, Atli, and Oddrun. These late poems explain that Budli wanted Brynhild to be a single shield maiden. Running her own kingdom and free from a husband. Oddrun was to be married to Gunnar to establish a peace between the clans.
But Budli is dead, and Atli had other plans (perhaps the wealth of Sigurd threw off the initial plans). He married off Brynhild (likely so his sister would not have a neighboring kingdom to rival his own) and forbid the lovebirds, Gunnar and Oddrun, from marrying.

We see in this episode how Gudrun wanted to grieve in peace, but the patriarchy, the brothers and parents, want her to reestablish the alliance formed by the marriage of Gunnar and Brynhild. 
My conclusion is that these particular poems are fan fiction. As the Poetic Edda scholar Carolyn Larrington says, these late contructions: "give more justification than seems necessary" for why the families go to war and why Atli kills Gunnar and Hogni. There are some very amusing verbal dueling between Oddrun and another lady of the court, the unwed and pregnant Borgny. A poetic battle conducted while Oddrun begrudgingly serves as her midwife. It finally answers Shawn's question from Season 1 on Havamal. Why should one not trust women serving drinks?




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Check out David’s writing: Walled Garden (https://thewalledgarden.com/davidalexander)

Our podcast is part of The Walled Garden Podcast Network. The Walled Garden is committed to the pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, Virtue, and the Divine, wherever it might be found. Visit thewalledgarden.com to learn more.

This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5910787/advertisement

In this episode, Shawn and David explore the aftermath of Ragnar Lodbrok’s death at the hands of King Aela of Northumbria, which initially causes a rift between his sons. While most are consumed by raw fury and seek immediate vengeance, Ivar takes a more calculating approach.Yet, despite their differences, the brothers share a common purpose—King Ælla must pay for their father’s death. As events unfold, Ivar receives the finest gift he could ask for and ensures that Ælla meets a gruesome fate through the infamous blood eagle.

Ways to support us:If you have been enjoying our show, please write a 5 star review on itunes to help spread our podcast to a wider audience:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/between-two-ravens-a-norse-mythology-podcast/id1604263830

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Follow us for updates or send us a message on Instagram:
Instagram: (@TwoRavensPodcast): https://www.instagram.com/tworavenspodcast/

Check out David’s writing: Walled Garden (https://thewalledgarden.com/davidalexander)

Our podcast is part of The Walled Garden Podcast Network. The Walled Garden is committed to the pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, Virtue, and the Divine, wherever it might be found. Visit thewalledgarden.com to learn more.

This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5910787/advertisement

In this episode, Shawn and David discuss chapter 15 of "The Saga of Ragnar Lodbrok". Despite his absence in the previous episode, Ragnar knows full well about the successful military campaigns of his sons. Despite his past of slaying a dragon/serpent and being a great king among men, Ragnar sees his son's exploits beginning to exceed his own.
In what seems to be a dark age mid life crisis, Ragnar decides to go to England with only 2 ships in an effort to take the land (with the justified lack of support of his wife, Aslaug). However, seeing she cannot change his mind, Aslaug give Ragnar a hair shirt that would prevent him from taking harm on the battlefieldArmed with the hair shirt and the spear he used to slay the dragon and win over his first wife, Thora, Ragnar embarks on his journey. However, his voyage quickly takes a disastrous turn when he wrecks on the eastern shores of Northumbria.
The hosts dive into the aftermath of Ragnar's ill-fated invasion. Did Ragnar truly believe he had a chance to conquer England, or was he already aware that his actions would set the stage for an even greater destiny, one that would elevate the legacy of his sons?

Ways to support us:If you have been enjoying our show, please write a 5 star review on itunes to help spread our podcast to a wider audience:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/between-two-ravens-a-norse-mythology-podcast/id1604263830

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Follow us for updates or send us a message on Instagram:
Instagram: (@TwoRavensPodcast): https://www.instagram.com/tworavenspodcast/

Check out David’s writing: Walled Garden (https://thewalledgarden.com/davidalexander)

Our podcast is part of The Walled Garden Podcast Network. The Walled Garden is committed to the pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, Virtue, and the Divine, wherever it might be found. Visit thewalledgarden.com to learn more.

This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5910787/advertisement

In this episode, the sons of Ragnar— Ivar, Bjorn, Hvitserk, and Sigurd—along with Ragnar's wife Aslaug, invade King Eystein’s land to avenge their fallen brothers, Eirik and Agnar. Facing yet another magical cow on the battlefield, Ivar the Boneless (if his ability to live without bones didn’t make it obvious) reveals his own magical abilities in taking on the cow.
After the invasion, the sons (this time without their mother) turn their ambitions south, raiding every land in their path with dreams of reaching Rome. However, their plans are interrupted by a familiar deity, one we've absolutely not discussed 535 times, who redirects them northward, knowing that their true destiny lies in England, not Rome.
Shawn also goes on a rant about the limitations of dark age footwear, because apparently shoe durability is the real villain in this saga.


Ways to support us:If you have been enjoying our show, please write a 5 star review on itunes to help spread our podcast to a wider audience:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/between-two-ravens-a-norse-mythology-podcast/id1604263830

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Follow us for updates or send us a message on Instagram:
Instagram: (@TwoRavensPodcast): https://www.instagram.com/tworavenspodcast/

Check out David’s writing: Walled Garden (https://thewalledgarden.com/davidalexander)

Our podcast is part of The Walled Garden Podcast Network. The Walled Garden is committed to the pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, Virtue, and the Divine, wherever it might be found. Visit thewalledgarden.com to learn more.

This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5910787/advertisement

S5E13 Volsung Poems: The Poems of Brynhild and Gudrun (Part 4) 

David continues his series of not so short solo episodes, deep diving into the Poems of the Poetic Edda which inspired the Saga of the Volsungs.
This is the story of the meeting of the hero with the beloved. The Valkyrie. I had to analyze the tragedy of Tristan and Iseult to find the archetypes which may be at play with the meeting of the hero with the beloved, and the meaning of the love triangle where the hero betrays his first love, in order to attempt to make an earthly love work. Is Sigurd "heartless" in his betrayal? Powerless to the dark agreements of others? Or does he have an acceptance of fate that is difficult for us to fathom?
This episode explores the poems focusing on the meeting of Sigurd with his beloved and the tragedy when he finds himself with both Brynhild and Gudrun in love with him.
Gripir's prophecy
The "short" poem of Sigurd
A fragment about Sigurd 
The First Poem of Gudrun
Brynhild's Ride to Hell

The Saga of Volsung gives a convoluted meeting of Sigurd with Brynhild. Gripir's Prophecy gives what I find to be an oversimplified version. The other poems give multiple possible meetings as we attempt to sort out what was the most likely meeting and what did the earliest authors intend to be the meeting.

I also contrast the Norse Version of the archetypal meeting of the hero and the beloved, which is filled with Shadow, Cursed Fate, and Insecurities, with the ideal meeting from Shahname, the Persian Book of Kings.

Writing this episode has helped me a great deal to understand a relatively coherent and tragic story of Sigurd following his fate and playing out the curse of Andvari and Fafnir's gold. And I have gained a great deal of respect and understanding for Gudrun. I hope you enjoy coming along on the journey and I will return to the poems of Gudrun and Atli in the near future.


Ways to support us:If you have been enjoying our show, please write a 5 star review on itunes to help spread our podcast to a wider audience:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/between-two-ravens-a-norse-mythology-podcast/id1604263830

Buy Shawn and David a Beer or Coffee: https://ko-fi.com/tworavenpodcast

Follow us for updates or send us a message on Instagram:
Instagram: (@TwoRavensPodcast): https://www.instagram.com/tworavenspodcast/

Check out David’s writing: Walled Garden (https://thewalledgarden.com/davidalexander)

Our podcast is part of The Walled Garden Podcast Network. The Walled Garden is committed to the pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, Virtue, and the Divine, wherever it might be found. Visit thewalledgarden.com to learn more.

This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5910787/advertisement

Shawn apologizes for his audio quality. He needed to switch to a headset last minute after already marking himself as using a speaker when he entered the recording room. He is an idiot. - Shawn

In this episode, Shawn and David discuss chapters 9-11 of the "Saga of Ragnar Lodbrok". The duo discuss Ragnar playing politics with his vassals, specifically with a King Eystein, a man Ragnar gave much land in Sweden to run to thwart the aggression of his own sons. King Eystein's daughter, Inginbjorg, bats her eyelashes to Ragnar while he is drinking. The result is Ragnar's 4th engagement,,,, while he is already married to who he thinks is "Kraka", the farmers daughter and not "Aslaug" the daughter of Sigurd the Dragon Slayer and Brynhild the Valkyrie.

Aslaug, with the genetics to understand the sound of birds (a trait she got from her father), was able to spy on her husband when he revealed his intention to marry another. This forces her to confront him and reveal her true identity. Where Ragnar then needs to decide whether or not to break off his new engagement.

Oh, and there is another magical cow #freeathumla


David is starting a new grove called "The Raven's Nest". He will have 3 meet-ups on the topic of Voulspa, the prophecy of the seeress. We will be analyzing stanzas from the poem and have time for listeners to discuss with us at the end:
November 10th, 2024
November 24th, 2024
December 8th, 2024

For more information and register for the event: https://thewalledgarden.com/the-ravens-nest/

And follow us on instagram for updates: @TwoRavensPodcast https://www.instagram.com/tworavenspodcast/


Ways to support us:If you have been enjoying our show, please write a 5 star review on itunes to help spread our podcast to a wider audience:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/between-two-ravens-a-norse-mythology-podcast/id1604263830

Buy Shawn a Beer or Coffee: https://ko-fi.com/tworavenpodcast

Follow us for updates or send us a message on Instagram:
Instagram: (@TwoRavensPodcast): https://www.instagram.com/tworavenspodcast/

Check out David’s writing: Walled Garden (https://thewalledgarden.com/davidalexander)

Our podcast is part of The Walled Garden Podcast Network. The Walled Garden is committed to the pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, Virtue, and the Divine, wherever it might be found. Visit thewalledgarden.com to learn more.

This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5910787/advertisement

This is a short episode where David talks about why a person might want to study Norse Mythology, Poetry, and Archetypes. My hope is that this episode would be a good introduction for anyone who is not already following Shawn and I on our 2 year journey of exploring the myths of the Norse Gods and the hero Sagas of the Volsung family and Ragnar Lothbrook. 

My takeaway is that archetypes help us find meaning in life. Accept fate and things in life that are difficult to accept. These are things which go beyond my work as a psychotherapist and expand into the Jungian psychology ideas of spiritual healing and soul work. 

If you are interested in understanding the study of Archetypes, soul work, poetry, and philosophy, we have discussions like these at The Walled Garden. 

I am starting a new grove called "The Raven's Nest", where I will have 3 meet-ups on the topic of Voulspa, the prophecy of the seeress. We will be analyzing stanzas from the poem and have time for listeners to discuss with us at the end:
November 10th, 2024
November 24th, 2024
December 8th, 2024

For more information and register for the event: https://thewalledgarden.com/the-ravens-nest/

And follow us on instagram for updates: @TwoRavensPodcast https://www.instagram.com/tworavenspodcast/





Ways to support us:If you have been enjoying our show, please write a 5 star review on itunes to help spread our podcast to a wider audience:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/between-two-ravens-a-norse-mythology-podcast/id1604263830

Buy Shawn a Beer or Coffee: https://ko-fi.com/tworavenpodcast

Follow us for updates or send us a message on Instagram:
Instagram: (@TwoRavensPodcast): https://www.instagram.com/tworavenspodcast/

Check out David’s writing: Walled Garden (https://thewalledgarden.com/davidalexander)

Our podcast is part of The Walled Garden Podcast Network. The Walled Garden is committed to the pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, Virtue, and the Divine, wherever it might be found. Visit thewalledgarden.com to learn more.

This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5910787/advertisement