In this episode, Jenna and Aaron talk about the nuances of defensiveness when two people are communicating pain. The biggest struggle in learning to express emotion on a regular basis has been the defensiveness that inevitably arises as the result of our partner sharing pain that we caused. Aaron shares that playing the role of the victim typically results in defensiveness that is blaming. "If I feel sad, then that means you are bad/guilty/wrong/etc." Jenna shares that playing the role of the rescuer typically results in defensiveness that is internally focused shame. "If you feel sad, then that means I am bad/guilty/wrong/etc."

They share the pathway to changing this unhelpful dynamic in bringing awareness to our styles of relating and then practicing through repetition, "I can connect to their sad and it doesn't mean I'm bad," or "I can be sad and it doesn't mean they are bad."

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