Over the weekend, India and Pakistan came closer to all-out war than perhaps at any point in the past 20 to 25 years as missiles flew back and forth across the border. At the point of this podcast recording, a fragile ceasefire appears to be holding—but tensions remain high.

In this week’s emergency podcast episode, Mark Leonard welcomes Andrew Small, senior transatlantic fellow with the German Marshall Fund’s Indo-Pacific programme, to discuss how the recent escalation of tensions between India and Pakistan highlights the potential for nuclear conflict. They also explore America’s role in mediating the situation, implications for Europe in light of the evolving geopolitical landscape, and the growing influence of China in the region.

What has led to the most recent conflict events between India and Pakistan? How did each side negotiate the ceasefire? And, as Europeans, what lessons have we learned from the countries’ retaliatory acts?

This episode was recorded on May 12th 2025.

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