Catalyst with Shayle Kann

The bottleneck holding back AI is a scarcity of power, or so goes the story. That may be true — and plenty of reporting backs it up — but different actors in the space face varying incentives to play up or play down that narrative. 

So what incentives are at play, and how do they shape each player's story?

In this episode, Shayle talks to Shanu Mathew, senior vice president and portfolio manager-analyst for U.S, sustainable equity at Lazard. Last month on X, he posted a breakdown of the actors — including hyperscalers, chip makers, utilities, and others – and how the different incentives they face shape how they talk about energy and AI. They cover topics like:

Hyperscalers’ mixed incentives: the benefits of building their own capacity vs encouraging others to overbuild

Why equipment makers, chipmakers, and land developers benefit from talking up the bottleneck to boost demand for their services

How independent power producers and gas players benefit from high prices

How the power-bottleneck narrative has shifted over time

Resources:

Latitude Media: ERCOT’s large load queue has nearly quadrupled in a single year  

Latitude Media: The power bottleneck is changing data center financing

Latitude Media: Early-stage data centers are driving up US power demand forecasts  

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor. 

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. AI data centers can’t wait years for grid power—and with Bloom Energy’s fuel cells, they don’t have to. Bloom Energy delivers affordable, always-on, ultra-reliable onsite power, built for chipmakers, hyperscalers, and data center leaders looking to power their operations at AI speed. Learn more by visiting BloomEnergy.com.

Catalyst is supported by Third Way. Third Way’s new PACE study surveyed over 200 clean energy professionals to pinpoint the non-cost barriers delaying clean energy deployment today and offers practical solutions to help get projects over the finish line. Read Third Way's full report, and learn more about their PACE initiative, at ⁠www.thirdway.org/pace⁠.

After years of stalled transmission buildout, there are new signs of progress. Earlier this month, SPP approved $8.6 billion in transmission projects across 14 states. Major plans are emerging in MISO, PJM, and ERCOT. Despite the DOE canceling its loan guarantee, the Grain Belt Express is still moving forward. And regardless of court battles, so is the New England Clean Energy Connect. 

Are these signs that the U.S. could start building transmission at scale again?

In this episode, Shayle talks to Rob Gramlich, founder and president of Grid Strategies. He and Shayle cover topics like:

Why Rob says the DOE’s efforts to fast-track large-load interconnection is a positive sign for transmission buildout

The recent buildout of 880 miles of transmission and why it may look better than it is

Why transmission hasn’t benefited from data center investment 

Specific projects, including SPP’s transmission backbone and the Grain Belt Express

Rob’s outlook on buildout over the coming year

The uncertain future of permitting reform despite bipartisan support

Resources:

Catalyst: Unpacking DOE’s proposal to transform data center interconnection   

Latitude Media: How the Grain Belt Express lost its LPO loan  

E&E News: Data center growth cited in defense of MISO transmission plan 

Fill out our short podcast listener survey for a chance to win a $100 Amazon gift card.

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor. 

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com.
Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. AI data centers can’t wait years for grid power—and with Bloom Energy’s fuel cells, they don’t have to. Bloom Energy delivers affordable, always-on, ultra-reliable onsite power, built for chipmakers, hyperscalers, and data center leaders looking to power their operations at AI speed. Learn more by visiting BloomEnergy.com.

Across the country, people are asking the same question: why is it so hard to build in America?

From transmission lines to clean energy factories, projects are taking longer, costs are rising, and frustration is growing. But in New Mexico, two cabinet secretaries are trying to show that it doesn’t have to be this way.

Together, Economic Development Secretary Rob Black and Environment Secretary Jim Kenney are helping redefine how state agencies work with industry. Their model blends speed, access, and careful environmental oversight to help companies build more quickly without cutting corners.

Together, they’re using that model to attract billion-dollar fusion and geothermal projects, expand water and infrastructure investments, and deploy the state’s $65 billion sovereign wealth fund directly into advanced energy and deep-tech manufacturing.

In this episode, Stephen Lacey talks with Rob Black and Jim Kenney about how New Mexico is rewriting the rules of economic development, and what their partnership can teach the rest of America about how to make government work again.

This is a partner episode, produced in collaboration with the New Mexico Economic Development Department, which works to expand opportunity through innovation, infrastructure, and investment across the state.

A few years ago, industry and political leaders embraced hydrogen as a solution to a laundry list of hard-to-abate decarbonization challenges — steel production, ammonia production, and more. But hydrogen failed to come down in costs and policymakers pulled back support. Ultimately, the bubble burst. 

So what does it take to drive down the costs of low-carbon hydrogen and rebuild momentum?

In this episode, Shayle talks to Raffi Garabedian, co-founder and CEO of Electric Hydrogen. (Shayle is on the board of Electric Hydrogen and Energy Impact Partners, where Shayle is a partner, invests in the company). Shayle and Raffi cover topics like:

Why the hype bubble burst: political pullback, high renewables costs driven by AI demand, and high CapEx 

The real cost problem: Why engineering, procurement, and construction (EPC) costs have remained persistently high

Competing approaches: Why Electric Hydrogen chose supersized electrolyzers over modular units

The China question: Why hydrogen’s EPC costs will limit the impact of cheap Chinese electrolyzers

Real numbers: Realistic cost targets for fossil parity and Electric Hydrogen’s current pricing

Where hydrogen wins: Markets where Raffi says green hydrogen can achieve fossil parity by the early 2030s, including Brazilian fertilizer

Resources:

Latitude Media: is 45v guidance killing green hydrogen production?

The Green Blueprint: Electric Hydrogen’s bet on supersized electrolyzers

Latitude Media: Electric Hydrogen is building through the market downturn  

Latitude Media: Hydrogen’s narrow pathway to positive climate impacts  

Latitude Media: Why the Electric Hydrogen-Ambient merger is a sign of things to come

Fill out our short podcast listener survey for a chance to win a $100 Amazon gift card.

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor. 

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. AI data centers can’t wait years for grid power—and with Bloom Energy’s fuel cells, they don’t have to. Bloom Energy delivers affordable, always-on, ultra-reliable onsite power, built for chipmakers, hyperscalers, and data center leaders looking to power their operations at AI speed. Learn more by visiting BloomEnergy.com.

Catalyst is supported by Third Way. Third Way’s new PACE study surveyed over 200 clean energy professionals to pinpoint the non-cost barriers delaying clean energy deployment today and offers practical solutions to help get projects over the finish line. Read Third Way's full report, and learn more about their PACE initiative, at www.thirdway.org/pace.

A big problem with using artificial intelligence to discover new materials? It struggles to predict beyond its training data. That means AI might be better at optimizing known materials than discovering entirely new ones — like a room temperature superconductor or carbon-capture sorbents. 

But since we last covered the topic in September 2024, a few things have changed. OpenAI released its powerful O1 reasoning model. Large language models have also gotten better at math, physics, and coding. And lab automation — robots mixing liquids and powders, running characterization tests — has improved, allowing for a higher volume of experiments. 

So, can these improvements overcome AI’s training data problem?

In this episode, Shayle talks to Ekin Dogus Cubuk, cofounder of Periodic Labs, which raised $300 million seed round in September. Last year, Dogus took a more cautious view on using AI for materials discovery. Now though, he’s convinced there’s a clearer path forward for physical science research and development, especially materials discovery. Shayle and Dogus cover topics like:

Creating experimental and synthetic data to overcome AI’s limitations of predicting beyond its training set

Why we should focus on breakthrough discoveries over easier, incremental wins

The different roles humans and AI play in the discovery process

Period’s focus on automated experimental labs using AI-generated hypotheses

Resources:

Catalyst: Can AI revolutionize materials discovery?  

Latitude Media: This ‘superintelligence platform’ just raised $200m in seed funding  

Latitude Media: Can AI get us closer to fusion?  

The New York Times: Top A.I. Researchers Leave OpenAI, Google and Meta for New Start-Up

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor. 

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. AI data centers can’t wait years for grid power—and with Bloom Energy’s fuel cells, they don’t have to. Bloom Energy delivers affordable, always-on, ultra-reliable onsite power, built for chipmakers, hyperscalers, and data center leaders looking to power their operations at AI speed. Learn more by visiting BloomEnergy.com.

Catalyst is supported by Third Way. Third Way’s new PACE study surveyed over 200 clean energy professionals to pinpoint the non-cost barriers delaying clean energy deployment today and offers practical solutions to help get projects over the finish line. Read Third Way's full report, and learn more about their PACE initiative, at ⁠www.thirdway.org/pace⁠.

Last Thursday, Energy Secretary Chris Wright directed the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission to consider rulemaking to fast-track interconnection for large loads — as long as they agree to be curtailable or colocate with dispatchable generation.

So what does this proposal actually mean for interconnection? 

In this episode, Shayle talks with Allison Clements, former FERC commissioner and current partner with digital infrastructure advisory firm ASG. Allison is also principal of 804 Advisory. Shayle also talks with Tyler Norris, doctoral student at Duke University’s Nicholas School of the Environment. Allison, Tyler, and Shayle cover topics like:

How the proposal would standardize interconnection procedures for certain large loads, with study periods no longer than 60 days 

The jurisdictional shift: asserting federal authority over a process traditionally under state purview  

The types of eligible loads, including traditional data centers as well as ones that colocate with generation, also known as “hybrid facilities”

The duration of flexibility and whether 2-hour, 4-hour, or longer durations are needed for curtailment

Whether flexibility resources should be behind-the-meter or front-of-meter

The potential disadvantages for bring-your-own-supply or bring-your-own-VPP

Resources:

Latitude Media: Wright directs FERC to fast track large load interconnection  

Latitude Media: How the world’s first flexible AI factory will work in tandem with the grid  

Latitude Media: OpenAI pushes the White House to invest in the grid to compete with China  

E3: Demand Response as a Capacity Resource in SPP’s Era of Data Center Growth 

Canary Media: In a first, a data center is using a big battery to get online faster 

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor. 

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. AI data centers can’t wait years for grid power—and with Bloom Energy’s fuel cells, they don’t have to. Bloom Energy delivers affordable, always-on, ultra-reliable onsite power, built for chipmakers, hyperscalers, and data center leaders looking to power their operations at AI speed. Learn more by visiting⁠ ⁠⁠BloomEnergy.com⁠.

We’ve covered AI’s massive power appetite in depth over the past year – with good reason. It’s the driving force behind much of the change and uncertainty in the energy world right now, from the error bars around our demand for electricity to the lineup of technologies vying to meet that demand. 

In this episode Shayle talks to his colleague Andy Lubershane, head of research and partner at Energy Impact Partners, about five big questions arising in this uncertain load-growth environment. They cover topics like:

The underappreciated factors that could flip the supply crunch to oversupply, like algorithmic efficiency gains, on-device inference, and off-grid data centers

The winners of the AI-drive power boom, including utilities and grid equipment suppliers, and the potential losers like industry that relies on cheap power

Whether there will be a “Cambrian explosion” or consolidation of nuclear reactors designs

The prospects for enhanced geothermal after Fervo’s Cape Station comes online

The future of grid-enhancing technologies like advanced conductors and dynamic line ratings, and whether they will make it out of “utility pilot hell”

Resources:

Steel for Fuel: Why does nobody know how much energy AI will consume?

Open Circuit: How do we know if we’re in an AI bubble?  

Catalyst: The US nuclear groundswell  

Catalyst: How geothermal gets built  

Latitude Media: In Georgia, stakeholders still can’t agree on data center load growth numbers  

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor. 

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. AI data centers can’t wait years for grid power—and with Bloom Energy’s fuel cells, they don’t have to. Bloom Energy delivers affordable, always-on, ultra-reliable onsite power, built for chipmakers, hyperscalers, and data center leaders looking to power their operations at AI speed. Learn more by visiting BloomEnergy.com.

As AI reshapes the industrial landscape, companies are questioning whether the grid can keep pace. Permitting delays, transmission constraints, and reliability risks are forcing developers to rethink where power comes from.

In this episode, KR Sridhar, CEO of Bloom Energy, lays out a radically different vision. He believes that many data centers will ultimately operate like refineries — powered by captive, off-grid generation that prioritizes resilience, speed, and local control over traditional grid economics.

Sridhar argues that solid-state fuel cells have become an ideal solution to meet data center needs at AI speed and scale. They can be deployed in months rather than years, follow digital loads in real time, and integrate with future zero-carbon fuels like hydrogen.

“I truly believe that this is a cyclical trend that’s going to continue for well over a decade,” said Sridhar.

This episode features an edited version of our live Frontier Forum conversation about what a future-proof AI power strategy really looks like. We talk about the tension between off-grid and grid-connected approaches, the importance of speed to power, carbon capture, and supply chains over the next decade of growth.

The conversation also touches on Bloom’s new white paper, Fuel Cells: A Technology Whose Time Has Come, which argues that onsite generation can deliver AI-scale reliability and lower emissions.

You can watch the full Frontier Forum conversation with audience Q&A here.

In the climate space, every idea sits somewhere along the hype continuum. Some command outsize attention. Others fly under the radar despite big potential. And a rare few hit the sweet spot, earning exactly the buzz they deserve.

But how do you tell which is which?

In this episode, Shayle teams up with Akshat Rathi, senior reporter for climate at Bloomberg News and host of the Zero podcast, to sort it out. Akshat and Shayle run through a list of hot topics and place each one on the hype continuum. They cover topics like:

Using DERs to meet load growth

Co-locating generation with data centers

Infrastructure bottlenecks like generation, transmission, and transformers

The roles of venture capital and the Paris Agreement in shaping markets

A grab-bag of other topics like sodium-ion, advanced geothermal, and advanced nuclear

Resources:

Catalyst: The new wave of DERs 

Catalyst: When to colocate data centers with generation  

Zero: The Device Throttling Our Electrified Future

Zero: The Gas Turbine Shortage Might Be a Climate Problem  

Credits: Hosted by Shayle Kann. Produced and edited by Daniel Woldorff. Original music and engineering by Sean Marquand. Stephen Lacey is our executive editor. 

Catalyst is brought to you by EnergyHub. EnergyHub helps utilities build next-generation virtual power plants that unlock reliable flexibility at every level of the grid. See how EnergyHub helps unlock the power of flexibility at scale, and deliver more value through cross-DER dispatch with their leading Edge DERMS platform, by visiting energyhub.com.

Catalyst is brought to you by Bloom Energy. AI data centers can’t wait years for grid power—and with Bloom Energy’s fuel cells, they don’t have to. Bloom Energy delivers affordable, always-on, ultra-reliable onsite power, built for chipmakers, hyperscalers, and data center leaders looking to power their operations at AI speed. Learn more by visiting BloomEnergy.com.

Jamie Daggett started his career as a mechanical engineer working for cleantech startups in Silicon Valley. But after five startups and three buyouts, Daggett saw the same story repeat itself: good technologies that worked in the lab often died before reaching commercial scale. 

And often they didn’t fail because the science was wrong; they failed because investors couldn’t trust that the performance would hold up over time.

That realization eventually led him to an unexpected place: insurance. 

Today, Daggett is the energy storage and fuel cell lead at Ariel Green, a Lloyd’s of London syndicate that provides a wide range of insurance for clean-energy projects. 

“Insurance is another tool that we can use to help grow the clean-energy market,” says Daggett. “I do feel like it plays an unsung role behind the scenes.”

In this episode, produced in collaboration with Ariel Green, Daggett talks with Stephen Lacey about how insurance is helping the energy storage sector mature. 

They discuss how the bankruptcy of Powin Energy exposed the fragility of supplier warranties, what the Moss Landing fire revealed about chemistry and safety risk, and how new markets for long-duration and non-lithium storage are testing the boundaries of what can be insured. 

Daggett explains how technology performance insurance now allows lenders, developers, and manufacturers to move faster by transferring risk from young suppliers to a creditworthy insurer.

This is a partner episode, produced in collaboration with Ariel Green. Ariel Green helps clients reduce uncertainty by providing investment-grade insurance for clean-energy projects — protecting the technologies that protect the environment. To learn more, visit arielgreen.com.