Republished with permission from Juan Mendoza, host of the Making Sense of Martech podcast.

"In this episode I’m joined by John James. John is the host of the Champagne Strategy podcast, marketing, and technology consultant, and startup entrepreneur. John started working for global ad agencies then went client side, to government (B2G), B2B, B2C. Worked at digital agencies in Melbourne for half a decade in account manager roles and sales, he then started his own agency and ran that for 7 years. Then moved to live in San Francisco working as a growth manager for a startup before returning to AU to channel his energy into architecting a growth marketing platform. John also sits on a number of advisory boards and helps a modest list of privately owned businesses with their growth, sales and marketing strategy.

We talk about why you don't always need MarTech and explore John's very unique perspective on why strategy is absolutely critical when it comes to buying tech. We delve deeper into how in most cases, and from what he's seen in his experience, you don't actually need a lot of technology to get the job done.

Go here for show notes, links, and resources.

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Listen on Apple, Spotify, Google, and everywhere else.

You can find John James on LinkedIn."

Brain hurt scale = 3/10. Andres Glusman was experimenting and validating products before the lean startup term was coined. It started in college selling peanuts at baseball games. Progressed to testing ads for the world's first digital agency. He was split testing Winnie the Pooh banner ads manually before ad software existed. Which led to his former agency boss getting him to solve an early traction problem for a startup called Meetup. Lashings of sales hustle and his revolutionary test-and-learn approach helped land Meetup their first round of funding and as they say, the rest is history.

But Andres' success was no accident. Raised by a family of scientists and years before behavioral economics even had a name, he combined an early interest in science with psychology and economics. Now, Andres is revered the world over as one of the OG's of the lean startup and experimentation-based product growth method.

However, in this episode we challenge the lean startup method as well as the data-driven culture favored by startups the world over. We talk about the importance of context. Using the right approach for the right stage of the business' maturity. Something full of tradeoffs and unavoidable error. But as he says, you need to, '...live with a tonne of error, because the alternative to that error is just more error'.

"You want to change behavior. Everyone is trying to get people to behave in a certain way, so understanding behavior first means you're most likely able to, but it [experimentation] can be done wrong and done too much - and I've done both. People got hooked on the sauce."

Also, find out which new product Andres is launching this week which will be a potential game-changer for the advertising world

So strap yourself in for a ride as we explore the whole dynamic between decision making and political or opinion based decision making. While weaving loads of stories from his career into the mix. There's something in here for everyone no matter how advanced your knowledge.

Peanuts....get your peanuts here

Brain-hurt Scale = 5/10. Some marketers believe Apple’s success stems from a series of emotional brand ads. Yet they ignore product strategy, distribution and ecosystems - which I would argue, is the true source of their market power.

Some marketers might know what distribution and the power of physical availability is. They may drop the term in conversations, but rarely are they exposed to it or know how to go about affecting it.  Most of us in business will be aware of distribution networks in the physical goods world. Manufacturers, wholesalers and retailers. But in the service industry, it's often far more complex and subtle. And almost no one talks about it because it's hidden from sight. It's a growth-driver that firms are cagey about disclosing in public. But, probably the most powerful lever a business can pull, and very defensible once established. 

This episode is the last in what is now a three-part mini-series on building distribution networks via partnerships. And there are many forms of partnerships. This is one of the first things we discuss.

But, if you're just getting into the partnership side of things, I'd suggest listening to the first in this series, season 2, episode 3 with Ayaan and Peter from Impact on the topic of affiliates, digital partnerships and content. We go through lots of examples including large tech companies like Canva and smaller retailers. We start drawing lines to the natural connection partnerships have with communities, superfans, and advocates.

Then listen to season 3, episode 26 where we speak with Brent Annells mostly about strategic partnerships. This is all the big deals you'll make which have the potential to create step-change growth. 

In this one, we’re going to cover some of the same territory from both former episodes, but take it a step further to the upper rung of the partnership world. Where we look at scaling partnerships into systems. Specifically partnership ecosystems and communities. With examples that are most relevant to larger enterprise and SaaS tech. But even if your company is small, there's an important genesis story and lots of takeaways if you're have a less mature partnership function. This is because Bryan has created these programs from scratch. So important learnings apply to people working in a less mature partnerships function.

There’s a running joke about content marketing which says content marketing works best when marketing isn’t involved. And the core lesson here for anyone that cares, is source message credibility. I.e. a source is more trusted when the brand itself isn’t the direct source of the message.

And on that vein, partnerships, communities and ecosystems tend to work best when we create networks where other people becomes advocates and sell our product instead.

But setting up these systems requires a lot more skill and strategic thought than simply booking a few meetings and trying to sell them a deal.

Which brings us to Bryan and Xero.

Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you should have heard about Intuit QuickBooks and Xero.

Today’s guest, Bryan was one of the original employees who kickstarted the creation of Xero’s partnership ecosystem and community. Which he started pretty much from scratch. Xero is a large multi-billion dollar public company which dominants the category of accounting software in APAC. He has since left but now advises other firms on all the dos and don’ts so they can create their own distributed partner networks.

So we go through his process in a reasonable amount of detail. By the end of the episode, you should be easily able to prevent yourself from making rookie mistakes if you’re going to pursue these growth levers yourself.

And you'll learn what a Champagne beer is

Sound good?

Click play to partner

Brain-hurt scale = 4/10. "Don't worry about profit. Just get me more growth. We can always worry about monetization and margins later." This type of statement is quite dominant within Silicon Valley culture and within modern entrepreneurship. But just how valid is this advice? Luckily, Per Davidsson, Professor of Entrepreneurship at Queensland University of Technology can answer that in detail. 

But first, what is entrepreneurship and what is growth for that matter? How do we define and measure them?

Why does the best business advice come from the people farthest away from you?

Why is buying customers almost always a bad idea?

If you want to predict the future success of a business or know your odds before you set out on an entrepreneurial journey, or even help decide whether to accept that new job at a 'high-growth' firm...this is an unmissable episode which has something for everyone. 

An easy listen which can help you understand some of the macro-laws behind business growth and profit. 

I'm now thinking I should be charging for these episodes.

Got to increase dem margins...

This is a follow up to a former talk we had with Elisa Choy about market research and predictive AI. We heard she was gearing up to predict the results of the US midterms. This was something I followed closely this time around. Following Elisa's posts and predictions as they manifested leading up to election day. 

Here's the story of how she again, got it right. Why she got it right. The major mistakes the Republicans made. And more information on how you could use her method to predict the next election in your own country. 

"You're wrong - Byron Sharp says loyalty doesn't exist." said a person on Twitter recently. This statement then started a string of comments as people started to argue who was right. I found this entire argument strange, because obviously that person has not read the book from the author he was referring to. 

One of my first jobs was to research all the loyalty programs in the country and figure out how they worked, what their incentive programs offered, the value of points in fiat currency equivalent and lots more. And I discovered a global points-hacking community obsessed with documenting and exploiting some of these systems. It was fascinating. 

But those are points systems. Not loyalty programs. So if you want to learn about loyalty programs, membership programs, points programs, this is the episode for you. 

Adam is an independent consultant who has been architecting these programs for businesses large and small for the best part of a decade. And each year he puts out a state of the market report which covers the entire industry in Australia. 

So I ask all the hard questions about loyalty, and you get the answers. 

And we start with, "Does loyalty even exist?"

Want to know what he says?

Have you noticed over the past year or so, all social media content is regressing to the mean of bland, sameness? Content which appears useful at face value but isn't. Feeds and blogs full of posts that all look and sound like each other. Most are wildly popular. But when you dig beneath the surface you'll find them as unhelpful as they are helpful. 

We've all been tempted to emulate this style. But what’s being lost in this process is something much deeper. A void has been created. This proliferation of generic sameness presents an immense opportunity for the opposite. High quality, well-thought-out, useful content.

But how do you go about doing that? 

Well, Flavia did this from scratch for an advertising agency called Sapient before it merged with Publicis and Razorfish. And you'll hear the whole story of how she did this. Including details about her nucleus framework. 

And this did this on the side while consulting and running BrandingMag. She's a writer by trade, but also architected content strategy and has a firm grasp on everything brand. This is rare. So we just had to get her take on all things content.

And it's her ability to blend brand with content that gives her this practical yet strategically-grounded perspective that’s quite unique. In this episode she eloquently explains how interlinked and essential the relationship is between content and brand

But, what is brand? What critical half of brand do most people miss?

What’s content for that matter? What’s content marketing? And what’s the difference between high and low quality?

You’ll also learn how to do real thought leadership. Powerful pieces that move people versus the fluff you see plastered over Linkedin.

So have a listen and Flavia will teach you the exact framework she uses to set up a world-class content ecosystem at any company.

And there’s lots of tactical takeaways, from things like how to get time from very senior and busy people within the org to get the content you need. Through to how you can get onside, people internally so make all of this happen. 

And of course we talk about Brandingmag's genesis story and where they are heading in the future

This is deep and detailed

Are you feeling lucky punk? 

Well are ya?

A simple idea during 2020s lockdown has now led to Juan being invited on stages around the world, working with Scott Brinker, SVP from Hubspot and consulting opportunities galore. But it all started by creating by creating a simple blog and newsletter. A newsletter which is now one of the most trusted in the world on Martech. 

And for the first time, ever, you'll hear from the horse's mouth, exactly how he did it. This is the story of Juan Mendoza's rise to fame which has remained untold until now. 

Even if content marketing, owned media or building a media company isn't your cup of tea...there's so much more to gain by listening. 

The modern state of marketing is discussed in many facets - both from a philosophical approach, through to strategy and tactics. And what I discovered is that Juan is someone who can talk very eloquently about multiple topics, in considerable depth, on the spot. A rare skill indeed. 

A live interview serves as a very effective litmus test for wisdom. You can tap into this wisdom right now....so what are you waiting for! 

Brain hurt scale = 4/10. We've all heard examples of a big brand CMO starting their own business or going to work for a smaller company and it usually ends in tears. Exposed naked, without the halo effect of a big brand, including operational processes and agency support, it can be a confronting, reality-check experience at best. And a complete disaster at worst. 

So ,any marketers just stick in their lane. If they start in one sector, they tend to stick to it. If they work at a large brand, they tend to continue seeking roles at similar firms. Vary rarely do they move into completely different environments. But what's lost, is this opportunity to test their own assumptions and uncover marketing first-principles.

I'm a personal fan of Jon's podcast, the Uncensored CMO. And we've had a few LinkedIn chats over the years. But when I found out about his own personal experience where he transitioned as the CMO of a large CPG/FMCG firm to the first and only marketing hire at a small regional juice company - the story was so fascinating I just had to get it recorded. 

And as we go deep into Jon's career experiences, what washes out of this discussion is pure gold. 

It's an easy listen and entertaining story. But hidden throughout for the keen listener, are critical pieces of wisdom that any practicing marketer could benefit from.

What barbed nicknames do Ritson and Byron Sharp give each other?

What are the key differences between big brand CMO vs small brand CMOs - What three key points can large brand CMO’s take away from small brand experiences.

How did he adapt from a $7 million budget and a team of 50 - to $0 and a team of just one. 

How did he turn around a situation where he lost 15-20% of his buyers almost overnight. 

What do marketing novices and world-class experts have in common

Why was he literally blowing-up fruit with explosive charges? 

What's the story behind how he started his podcast and how it got to be one of the biggest marketing podcasts in the world.

What is the new product System 1 are releasing that could be a game changer

How we can use emotional tests to predict future behavior

What are the three reasons why everyone hates marketers?

Questions...questions...questions...so many questions.

Get the answers

Brain hurt scale 7/10. Mike Talor helps us put the last 5 episodes on Marketing Measurement into practical context. Having started a growth agency many years ago and still an active practitioner in the field, there was perhaps no one more appropriate to talk to about this topic. 

We've spoke to Elisa Choy about sentiment tracking, Jonathan Rolley about advertising media measurement, Edgar Baum about brand tracking, Michael Kaminsky about MMM and Koen Pauwels about econometrics. But often, what you should do in a perfect world, is very different to the realities of actually implementing these systems within different organizations. 

So this episode looks at them all and puts it into context. Political navigation. Firm size and maturity. Different cultures and approaches etc. 

We tap into his wisdom at how to go about it.