A key component of personal growth and change is understanding the distinction between "White-Knuckle Change" and "Real Change." White-Knuckle Change is trying to change behavior without addressing the underlying causes of the behavior. These causes may include health issues, interpersonal pressures, political conflict, and/or spiritual abuse. Real Change is changing behavior by virtue of addressing those causes. If you address the causes, behavioral change naturally follows suit. In this interview, therapist and author Steven Luff explores many of the realities that may cause any of us to experience negative emotion and/or acting out behavior and underscores the truth that Real Change is about honest engagement with the world, not the meeting of external standards. By virtue of this, Real Change requires education, a commitment to the pursuit of justice, and, most importantly, the construction of a faith life that opens us up to acceptance, uncertainty, and the Unknown.