On The Gist, Jeffrey Epstein's ideas.

In the interview, when Chuck Klosterman writes non-fiction, he worries about missing some grand historical context in a way that would ruin his work. With fiction, that anxiety goes out the window— if someone reads one of his short stories and thinks something "completely unrelated to what I thought, it's still okay." Klosterman digs into that, the advantages of an education outside the ivory tower, and what the Beatles really did for rock music. His new book of short stories is Raised in Captivity: Fictional Nonfiction.

In the Spiel, the first night of the CNN debates and Marianne Williamson.

Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.