The New Music Business with Ari Herstand

Citizen Cope on Major Labels vs. Independence, Audience Connection and Having a Seat at the Table


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Citizen Cope, a.k.a Clarence Greenwood, is an American singer-songwriter, producer, and performer. His music is commonly described as a mix of blues, soul, folk, and rock. Cope's compositions have been recorded by artists such as Carlos Santana, Dido, Pharoahe Monch, and Richie Havens. In his solo career, "Let the Drummer Kick" from his 2002 album, Citizen Cope, went RIAA-Certified Gold. In 2004, he produced and released The Clarence Greenwood Recordings, followed by Every Waking Moment in 2006.


In 2010, Cope founded his own record label, Rainwater Recordings, allowing him to exert full creative control. Free from the marketing entreaties of the major record labels, he released The Rainwater LP later that year. One Lovely Day followed in 2012. After taking a hiatus from his own record releases, Cope came back stronger than ever, releasing Heroin and Helicopters in 2019 and The Pull of Niagara Falls in 2021. He is currently slated to release another album in 2023.


05:45 Welcome

07:24 Communication with an audience performing solo vs. with a band

11:09 Post-pandemic reflection, music festival line-up experiences, career sustainability

16:55 Album achieving gold status, having a timeless sound

19:36 Breaking down Citizen Cope's new album’s sonic landscape

29:41 Releasing records independently with Rainwater Recordings

33:20 New artists establishing themselves before getting signed

36:51 Biggest difference working independently vs. with a major label

43:04 Is it worthwhile making records because of streaming?

48:02 Publishing deals, Sony licensing with Peloton, TikTok and Facebook

53:40 New album 'Victory March' release date

55:45 What it means to make it in the New Music Business

57:58 Artists having a seat at the table


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Connect with Ari Herstand:


Website: https://ariherstand.com

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Twitter: https://twitter.com/ariherstand

YouTube: https://youtube.com/ariherstand


Connect with Citizen Cope


Website: https://citizencope.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/citizencope

Twitter: https://twitter.com/citizencope

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@citizencope


Edited and mixed by Maxton Hunter

Music by Brassroots District

Produced by the team at Ari’s Take



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