Intangible, hard-to-define terms like "local," "craft," and even "ethical" remain debatable within beer spheres, but they're far from limited to one industry. Longtime beer writer and more recent bean-to-bar chocolate expert David Nilsen touches on these topics and more in his newest piece for Good Beer Hunting, titled "Cacao, Brewing, and the Price of Nostalgia — Toward a Better Future for Chocolate Beer," which was published on June 8, 2021.

In this episode, David and I discuss the preconceived notions Western consumers tend to have about chocolate, including where it comes from, how it should taste, and the often unknown—or at least overlooked—human cost behind each exquisite bite. Chocolate is far from just a one-dimensional snack found at supermarket checkout lines and in Halloween buckets. Instead, it can be as varied, complex, and multifaceted as malt or hops to beer drinkers, and the many cultural overlaps between beer and chocolate may surprise you. They certainly surprised me, as did the often-invisible, but pervasive human rights violations that exist in the cacao supply chain.

In our conversation, David explains the hard truths behind what it takes to transport goods from the global South to the U.S. and how we can all be more informed, more ethical, and more responsible consumers. He defines what "bean-to-bar" really means, and how his personal interest in beer dovetailed into exploring the world of chocolate. He also discusses how the chocolate industry was literally built on the backs of enslaved people, how those human rights abuses continue today, and how a small group of global producers are shaping the future of the industry in response to that. And in addition to those in-depth topics, we'll hear David talk about what makes him happy, and how the shared flavors of chocolate and beer can spark the imagination.