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There is a Black spiritual "We Are Climbing Jacob's Ladder" referring to a dream Jacob had about a ladder with angels ascending and descending. The ladder represented a connection from God's heaven to our earthly place. The Black spiritual noted the faith of Black slaves: that they would also climb the ladder for their spiritual and physical blessing and freedom.

In this episode, Melissa and The Very Rev. Dr. Horace Griffin have a conversation about freedom. They discuss freedom, its nuances in our country, and what Jesus says about treating others as ourselves. Listen in for the full conversation.

Before listening, read For Faith.

A graduate of Morehouse College, Boston University, and Vanderbilt in theological studies, Horace came to St. Luke's in July 2017 after a 27 year vocation as a college and seminary professor and hospital chaplain. He has served on a part-time basis at a number of parishes. Currently, he has oversight for the pastoral care ministry at St. Luke's.

An award-winning author of the groundbreaking, Their Own Receive Them Not: African American Lesbians and Gays in the Black Church, he was ordained to the Episcopal priesthood in 2005 and has passionately devoted his parish ministry to social justice, racial reconciliation and LBGTQ equality in the Church.

His fundamental belief that we are called to love God and treat all humans with love and equal justice is at the heart of his ministry. When he is not working on making the world a better place, he enjoys music, concerts, and film. He is interested in reading books on religion, African American and Gay history, and First Ladies.

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