"The modern world is impossible to narrate without the idea of land as property and the seizing of land as property." "Imagination is our gift in creating and building new worlds."

In this episode, Amanda talks with Dr. Willie James Jennings about the profound impact of our conceptions of land on our world today. Our distorted understanding of land as a possession has led to a shallow sense of connectivity and belonging, impacting our relationship with the earth and each other. The conflicts around us are often centered in conflicts over land, and we need to restructure our communities to create shared living and press against how our communities have been shaped. Understanding the history, shape, and function of the land where we live is essential for deepening our connection to the earth and each other. Imagination plays a crucial role in anticipating the possibility of a lively life together, preparing us to receive the stranger and care for those who are different from us.

GUEST:

Dr. Willie James Jennings is an American theologian, known for his contributions on liberation theologies, cultural identities, and theological anthropology. He is an associate professor of systematic theology and Africana studies at Yale Divinity School.

Willie Jennings’ book The Christian Imagination: Theology and the Origins of Race (Yale 2010) won the American Academy of Religion Award of Excellence in the Study of Religion in the Constructive-Reflective category the year after it appeared and, in 2015, the Grawemeyer Award in Religion, the largest prize for a theological work in North America. Englewood Review of Books called the work a “theological masterpiece.” 

His commentary on the Book of Acts, titled Acts: A Commentary, The Revolution of the Intimate (for the Belief Series, Westminster/John Knox) received the Reference Book of the Year Award from The Academy of Parish Clergy in 2018.

Dr. Jennings has also recently published a book that examines the problems of theological education within western education, entitled After Whiteness: An Education in Belonging

Writing in the areas of liberation theologies, cultural identities, and anthropology, Jennings has authored more than 40 scholarly essays and nearly two-dozen reviews, as well as essays on academic administration and blog posts for Religion Dispatches.

Jennings is an ordained Baptist minister and has served as interim pastor for several North Carolina churches. He is in high demand as a speaker and is widely recognized as a major figure in theological education across North America.

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What makes someone leave everything they know? Why do people risk their lives crossing treacherous deserts into a land they are not welcome in? Migration Activist and Humanitarian Dora Rodriguez shares her story of survival after fleeing political violence in El Salvador in 1980. She compels us to see the deep humanity of those simply seeking safety and opportunity.

SHOW NOTES

As the Biden Administration moves to limit admission to the U.S. for those seeking asylum, we take a trip to the southern border to meet with those who move between the two countries, supporting those simply seeking survival. In this episode, Amanda interviews Migration Activist and Humanitarian Dora Rodriguez, Director of Salvavision, a Tucson, Arizona-based organization providing aid and support to asylum seekers, migrants passing through or being dropped off by cartels, or migrants deported by Border Patrol in the remote town of Sasabe, Sonora.

Hear about Dora’s experience as a migrant in the 1980 tragedy in Organ Pipe National Monument, AZ, where Salvadorans fled civil war, resulting in 13 deaths, including 3 minors. This experience propelled her to the forefront of the sanctuary movement in Tucson, AZ.

Resources:

https://www.dorarodriguez.org/

https://mexico.arizona.edu/revista/brief-legislative-history-last-50-years-us-mexico-border#:~:text=In%20September%201969%2C%20the%20Nixon,created%20our%20modern%20border%20lines.

https://www.smu.edu/dedman/research/institutes-and-centers/texas-mexico/about/timeline

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/travel/nogales-arizona-mexico-border.html

https://salvavision.org

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Listening to the needs in their community for housing and childcare led this Colorado Church to make a big decision. Rather than building a bigger church on the 11 acres they sat on, they decided to give the land away and develop a new non-profit with community partners. Does awareness of our history of land ownership in the U.S. shift the way Churches think about their land?

“We don't hear stories in scripture of …and then Jesus went home to his house and went to bed, watched Netflix, and had a snack. Jesus's ministry was dependent on the hospitality of others, people welcoming him into their own homes. And so for us, this is a measure of that hospitality, welcoming people here to Heartside Hill to say, ‘You have a safe and secure place to lay your head at night.’” (Rev. Melissa St. Clair)

In today’s episode, Amanda talks with Pastor Melissa St. Clair, who shares the story of Heart of the Rockies Christian Church, which, after years of work, is giving away most of its 11 acres to support a new community-centered non-profit that will provide accessible housing, childcare, and supportive services. 

https://religionnews.com/complexified

GUEST:

Rev. Melissa St. Clair, Senior Pastor at Heart of the Rockies Christian Church in Fort Collins, Colorado

Senior Pastor since January 2013. She delights in the bike lanes, running paths, hiking trails, and the open-minded people in Fort Collins and at Heart of the Rockies Christian Church. Melissa was ordained in 2008 at St. John’s United Church of Christ in south central Pennsylvania, where her extended family still resides. Her Master of Divinity is from Eden Theological Seminary (St. Louis, MO).

Melissa serves as Moderator-Elect for the Central Rocky Mountain Region and chairs the Board of Stewards for the Center for Faith and Giving. She is an alumna of the Bethany Fellows and a graduate of Leadership Northern Colorado. She currently serves on the Leadership Team of the Ecumenical Circle of the Bethany Fellows.

Fort Collins church to transform part of their land for affordable housing

Collaborative housing plan at Heart of the Rockies church set for neighborhood meeting

Abundant Ground: A Congregational Land Initiative: Does your church have an underused parking lot or land? Could an affordable housing community revitalize your congregation?

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As bodies were burning from this massacre at the Mystic River in Massachusetts in 1637, pious settlers gave thanks to God for the victory- and even identified that the bodies burning were a “sweet-smelling savor in the nostrils of God.” Is this really the Land of the Free?

Does freedom for some depend on violence against others? Rev Dr. Lee Butler, President of Iliff School of Theology, shares his perspective on the violent history at the founding of the U.S. that continues to influence how we relate to one another today.

Amanda and Rev. Dr. Lee Butler discuss the contradictions between the U.S. ideals of freedom and the country's violent history of slavery, lynching, and cruel massacres. In this episode, this duo argues that acknowledging this history is crucial for understanding the ongoing legacies of colonization and systemic inequality, and the importance of redefining this idea of freedom for future generations to come.

https://religionnews.com/complexified

GUEST:

Born in Central Pennsylvania, the Rev. Dr. Lee H. Butler, Jr. is a lifelong Baptist and a first-generation beneficiary of the Post-Civil and Human Rights struggle in the United States. Dr. Butler comes to Iliff School of Theology from Phillips Theological Seminary where he served as the Vice-President of Academic Affairs and Academic Dean, and the William Tabbernee Professor of the History of Religions and Africana Pastoral Theology since July 1, 2020. He is the first African American tenured full professor and the first person of color to hold the office of VPAA and Academic Dean and serve as Acting President at Phillips. As VPAA, his responsibilities included oversight and supervision of the Associate Dean, Registrar, Recruitment, Admissions and Financial Aid, Director of Theological Field Education, Director of the Doctor of Ministry Program, Director of Black Church Traditions Program, Dean of the Chapel, Faculty, and Dean of the Library. He is an active publishing scholar. He is the co-editor of The Edward Wimberly Reader: A Black Pastoral Theology (Baylor University Press, 2020); author of Listen, My Son: Wisdom to Help African American Fathers (Abingdon Press, 2010), Liberating Our Dignity, Saving Our Souls (Chalice Press, 2006), A Loving Home: Caring for African American Marriage and Families (Pilgrim Press, 2000), and numerous articles published in many books and professional journals on the subject of pastoral care and pastoral psychology.

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Did you know that for some enslaved Africans, small plots of land became ways to maintain culture and heritage- and even pathways to freedom? Soul Food Scholar, Adrian Miller joins us to share stories that tie land to belonging and survival.

Amanda Henderson and Adrian Miller dive deep into the stories about navigating the ways of the land to cultivate food sovereignty within African American communities, despite forced migration and slavery in the United States. As they discuss the truths about the ongoing struggle of food injustice for marginalized communities and the rise of consciousness towards food sovereignty, we learn the importance of connecting and adapting to the land as a means of survival. 

GUEST:

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Amanda Henderson and Steven Newcomb discuss the Doctrine of Discovery and the ways in which religion has impacted the social and political frameworks amongst Native nations and the United States government. 

In this conversation, Amanda Henderson and Steven Newcomb dive deeper into how the founding documents of the US contain a claim of a God-ordained right for Christians to take land from non-Christians, which continues to be used as legal precedent in today’s world. Together, they advocate for a more inclusive and holistic approach to social and political change, one that acknowledges and respects Indigenous perspectives and sovereignty. Steven Newcomb invites us to step into the view "from the shore" as conquerors landed on waters of the Americas and claimed dominion, or domination over all they could see and take.

For more information: https://religionnews.com/complexified

Guest:

Steven Newcomb is a Shawnee-Lenape scholar and author. He has been studying and writing about U.S. federal Indian law and policy since the early 1980s, particularly the application of international law to Indigenous nations and peoples. Mr. Newcomb is the Director of the Indigenous Law Institute, which he co-founded with Birgil Kills Straight, a Traditional Headman and Elder of the Oglala Lakota Nation. Together they have carried on a global campaign challenging imperial Vatican documents from the fifteenth century. Those documents resulted in the decimation of Original Nations and Peoples of Mother Earth and thereby deprived the planet of life-ways, sustainable ecosystems, and Sacred Teachings. Newcomb’s book Pagans in the Promised Land: Decoding the Doctrine of Christian Discovery (2008) relies upon recent findings in cognitive theory and a semantic analysis of the Latin and English versions of 15th century Vatican documents. He has identified the little noticed patterns found in those documents and a U.S. Supreme Court ruling, which claimed a right of a “Christian prince or people” to discover and exert a right of domination (dominorum Christianorum) over the lands of “heathens and infidels.”

For more episodes and info visit Complexified at RNS

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Amanda and Amy dive into the complex relationship between land ownership and belonging in the US, drawing on biblical interpretations. Amanda emphasized the significance of land in shaping political and religious beliefs, while Amy offered nuanced interpretations of the Hebrew Bible, revealing how it has been used to justify land ownership and extraction.

In this conversation, Amy and Amanda discuss the Bible's views on land and its interpretation. They explore the contradictory perspectives on land ownership and the connection between land and identity. They also examine the impact of assumptions about land in the United States and the disconnect between urban elites and the land. Amy shares her personal journey of developing a deeper connection with the land through activities like hunting and fly fishing. The conversation highlights the healing power of the land and the importance of understanding our relationship with it.

Chapters 

00:00 Introduction and Background

03:13 The Bible's Contradictory Views on Land

08:29 Genesis 1 and the Interpretation of Land

12:22 John Locke and the Interpretation of Land Ownership

14:20 The Connection Between Land and Identity

20:23 The Impact of Assumptions about Land in the United States

23:10 The Disconnect between Urban Elites and the Land

26:08 The Impact of Land Use on Communities

28:30 Personal Connection to the Land

30:26 The Healing Power of the Land

33:18 The Bible's View on Our Relationship with the Land

Guest: 

Amy Erickson is Professor of Hebrew Bible at the Iliff School of Theology. Erickson teaches a range of courses in biblical interpretation, including The Body and Sexuality in the Hebrew Bible, The Hebrew Bible and Ecology, and Jonah and Its Afterlives. Her research interests include Hebrew poetry, poetic and mythological texts in ancient West Asian literature, and the Hebrew Bible’s history of interpretation.

She has recently completed a commentary on the book of Jonah and its history of interpretation entitled Jonah: Introduction and Commentary (Illuminations; Eerdmans, 2021), and has written articles on Job, Jonah, the Psalms, Zechariah, and Amos for academic journals and edited volumes. Erickson is also a regular contributor to workingpreacher.org, the Huffington Post ON Scripture, The Christian Century, and The Encyclopedia of the Bible and Its Reception (de Gruyter). She is currently working on a book on the Hebrew Bible and ecology.

An Interview with Eerdmans Publishing Co. about Erickson’s book on Jonah.

Commentary on Psalm 146

Commentary on Psalm 121

Psalm 1: Putting Evil in Its Place

For more episodes and info visit Complexified at RNS

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In this episode, Amanda Henderson talks to Dr. Kristina Lizardy-Hajbi, a biracial scholar and professor at the Iliff School of Theology. They explore the American dream through the lens of personal experiences and the stories of ancestors, especially focusing on the immigrant journey.

Dr. Lizardy-Hajbi shares tales of her grandparents from Italy and Puerto Rico, revealing the challenges they had to overcome to settle in America and the personal experiences tied to these journeys. The conversation touches on aspects such as name Anglicization, language loss, and various legal hurdles in the quest for the coveted American Dream. 

Also discussed is the paradoxical political situation of Puerto Rico as an intricate part of the United States, but lacking in full political representation. Amanda interrogates how religion and differing cultural contexts shaped these immigrant experiences.

00:01 Introduction and Background

01:14 Exploring the History of Puerto Rico

01:41 Guest Introduction: Dr. Kristina Lazardi-Hajbi

02:22 The Prerequisites of the American Dream

04:10 The Story of Puerto Rican Immigration

06:13 The Complexities of Puerto Rican Citizenship

10:23 The Impact of Americanization on Immigrant Families

14:48 The Italian Immigrant Experience

27:31 The Role of Religion in Immigrant Communities

33:14 Reflections on the American Dream

35:52 Conclusion and Future Plans

Want to Learn More?

Puerto Rico: A U.S. Territory in Crisis Article:   https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/puerto-rico-us-territory-crisis

New Partnership in 2024 with Religion News Service. Learn more about RNS here: https://religionnews.com/

Want to Take Action? 

Learn about immigration rights and how to take action in Colorado: https://www.aclu-co.org/en/campaigns/immigrants-rights

Sign up for Complexified Newsletter: https://complexified.substack.com/

Help Make Complexified Happen - Donate here https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/weblink.aspx?name=E345509&id=75

Contact us: email [email protected]

Complexified Website: https://www.complexified.org/

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In this episode, Amanda Henderson interviews Dr. Albert Hernández - a Cuban-American academic with a unique perspective on the American Dream. Dr. Hernández discusses the challenges faced by those who exist in-between cultures, feeling a lack of belonging to either. 

He shares historical perspectives on the experience of immigration to the U.S, particularly from Cuba, and explores how global political conflicts can drive individuals to relocate, seeking safety and better futures for their offspring. The episode illuminates the significance of personal and political narratives in shaping our understanding of the past and our vision for the future. The discussions range from colonial legacies, racialization, to the long road to societal change.

Lastly, it presents a reflective poem reading by Mariela Saavedra Carquin – I swear There Was a River. In Maps You Can’t Make, Mariella Saavedra Carquin confronts hard truths in this powerful debut collection, pushing through layered complexities of immigration, race, and identity to find a way forward.

00:00 Introduction: The Hyphenated Existence

00:33 Understanding the American Dream

02:04 Historical Context: Cuba and the United States

03:25 Interview with Dr. Albert Hernández: A Cuban-American Perspective

05:55 The Cuban Revolution and Its Impact

07:50 The Hyphenated Existence: A Personal Journey

09:01 The Struggle of Belonging: Between Cuban and American

10:19 The Influence of Personal History on Academic Interests

13:09 Generational Differences in Immigrant Experiences

20:22 The Complexity of Identity and the American Dream

23:39 The Role of History in Shaping Our Present and Future

30:56 The Long Haul Commitment to Change

33:12 Poetry Reading: I Swear There Was a River by Mariella Saavedra Carquin 

35:58 Conclusion and Acknowledgements

Guest Bios

Dr. Albert Hernández joined the Iliff faculty in 2001. He teaches courses in the history of Christianity from Medieval to Early Modern times with additional expertise in the history of the ancient Hellenistic-Roman period. His research and teaching areas include the history of mysticism and pneumatology; Muslim and Christian relations beginning with the Crusades; religious diversity in medieval Iberia and the Spanish Empire; and the history of medicine and pandemics. Hernández led the faculty design team that created the Authentic Engagement Program™ focusing his contribution on human flourishing and the philosophy of Happiness.

Poet Mariella Saavedra Carquin is a graduate of Middlebury College, holds an EdM and an MA in psychological counseling from Columbia University, and recently earned an MA from Middlebury's Bread Loaf School of English. She is a licensed mental health counselor who has practiced in clinical, higher education, and middle school settings and published in academic journals on the psychological impact of microaggressions experienced by undocumented immigrant youth. Born in Peru and raised in Miami, she currently lives in Colorado.

Want to Learn More?

Cuban Missile Crisis - https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/cuban-missile-crisis

Mariella Saavedra Carquin, the poet who read one of her poems at the end of this episode. Her recently published book of poems confronts hard truths in this powerful debut collection, pushing through layered complexities of immigration, race, and identity to find a way forward.   https://www.juneroadpress.com/maps-you-cant-make

Want to Take Action? 

Learn about immigration rights and how to take action in Colorado: https://www.aclu-co.org/en/campaigns/immigrants-rights

Sign up for Complexified Newsletter: https://complexified.substack.com/

Help Make Complexified Happen - Donate here https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/weblink.aspx?name=E345509&id=75

Contact us: email [email protected]

Complexified Website: https://www.complexified.org/

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In this episode, Amanda Henderson talks to Nga Vương-Sandoval, a refugee from Việt Nam and United States Refugee Advisory Board Project Manager. The conversation explores the transformation of the American Dream, immigration histories and policies, and the experiences of refugees. 

Vương-Sandoval shares her insights on the true meaning of the American Dream, which she believes should not be drowned by materialism but rather focused on essential human aspirations such as freedom, safety, and security. The episode also investigates how immigration laws shape daily life, how global events affect personal perspectives, and the complex realities of being displaced and navigating life in a foreign country.

Lastly, it presents a reflective poem reading by Mariela Saavedra Carquin on the complex realities of loss that come with displacement and resettlement in a new land.

00:02 Introduction and Overview

02:01 Understanding Immigration Laws and Policies

03:55 The Impact of Immigration Policies

05:08 Guest Introduction: Nga Vương-Sandoval

06:34 Nga's Journey and Perspective on the American Dream

13:53 The Influence of Capitalism on the American Dream

17:53 The Global Perception of the American Dream

21:20 The Role of History in Shaping Perceptions

24:22 Empowering Refugees and Asylum Seekers

28:27 Reflecting on Personal Experiences and the Concept of Home

31:20 Closing Remarks and Preview of Next Episode

Guest Bio

As a Việtnamese refugee, Nga Vương-Sandoval embraces her heritage and refugee experience and is empathetic to the plight and struggle of other underrepresented communities. In addition to being a TEDx Presenter, she is active in a number of advocacy roles, including being a member of the White House Initiative on Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians, and Pacific Islanders; a founding member and public speaker with Colorado Refugee Speakers Bureau; a refugee advisor for the United Nations High Commission for Refugees Refugee Advisory Group; the first refugee elected to Lutheran Family Services Rocky Mountains Board of Directors and Vice-Chair of the Program Services Committee; a Noble Ambassador for Christina Noble Children’s Foundation; an advisory member for Denver’s Little Sài Gòn Redevelopment Group; and an advisory member to the Denver Elections Advisory Committee. She previously served as a Commissioner with the Denver Asian American Pacific Islander Commission.

Nga earned a Master’s Degree in Criminal Justice and Bachelor’s Degree in Political Science. In her free time, she enjoys meeting, learning and engaging with diverse communities, reading, writing op-eds on Medium.com, watching documentaries, traveling domestically and internationally, exploring and savoring cuisines locally and around the world and creating origami for her NVS Cre-Asian line that’s sold at Ruby’s Market in Denver.

Want to Learn More?

Hart-Cellar Act of 1965: https://cis.org/Report/HartCeller-Immigration-Act-1965

The James Truslow Adams book Nga referenced that was published in 1931– The Epic of America: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1192936.The_Epic_of_America

Mariella Saavedra Carquin, the poet who read one of her poems at the end of this episode. Her recently published book of poems confronts hard truths in this powerful debut collection, pushing through layered complexities of immigration, race, and identity to find a way forward.   https://www.juneroadpress.com/maps-you-cant-make

Want to Take Action? 

Learn about immigration rights and how to take action in Colorado: https://www.aclu-co.org/en/campaigns/immigrants-rights

Sign up for Complexified Newsletter: https://complexified.substack.com/

Help Make Complexified Happen - Donate here https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/weblink.aspx?name=E345509&id=75

Contact us: email [email protected]

Complexified Website: https://www.complexified.org/

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