MACRODOSE EXTRA takes you behind the scenes to go in-depth with some of the leading voices from the world of economics. Subscribe today at patreon.com/macrodose to hear the full version of this interview, as well as our recent episodes with Greek politician Yanis Varoufakis, labour journalist Sarah Jaffe, and former finance trader Gary Stevenson. You’ll also gain access to our upcoming interviews with FT reporter Yuan Yang and academic and writer Gargi Bhattacharyya.

Our guest today is Rosie Collington. Rosie is a political economist, writer, and researcher at the Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose, University College London. She is also the co-author, alongside economist Marianna Mazzucato, of the new book: the Big Con: how the consulting industry weakens our businesses, infantilizes our governments and warps our economies.

I met up with Rosie recently over at UCL to talk all things public sector, outsourcing, and the political economy of the state.