Conversational Counseling

>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! <<⁠ ⁠(If you've already signed up for our email list, you'll receive them at each release.)

In our conversation this episode, we get to hear from Carol Collier who walked the horrific journey of watching her husband die of ALS. And not too long after, she suddenly lost her seemingly perfectly healthy adult daughter to covid. At the end of all interventions in both lives she dearly loved, she stood at the edge of the bed with the person she loved dying and struggling to breathe.

In these hardships, she grew to know in the depths of her being that it wasn’t about her grip on the Lord but it was all about His grip on her. From this place of security, she has embraced lament. 

Carol considers herself a student of lament. She calls lament one of her life’s companions.

So often, we don’t connect lament with an act of faith. But really it’s moving towards God, because we’re talking to Him. The reality of lament, is that we’re saying what is true… that we were not made for death and decay and pain. So we are ultimately agreeing with God.

Resource: Lectio 365 App

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. Thank you for listening to our fifth season of Conversational Counseling about suffering.

>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! <<⁠ (If you've already signed up for our email list, you'll receive them at each release.)

The general question of why there is suffering in the world is hard enough to wrestle with. But so often, our theoretical questions really spring from a place in our own lives, or the lives of those we love, that has been touched by suffering. There is no doubt that pain tests our faith.

But we want to encourage you that wrestling with God as a believer is not necessarily a sign of unbelief but it’s really a sign of desperate faith. Because you're turning to Him, to engage! To seek Him.

And slowly we can find that our questions of "Where were You, God?" turn to "Who are You, God?" And we get to know Him more richly and deeply.

Resources:

Season 1, Episode 5 / "Character of God: Sovereignty, Wisdom and Love"

Triangle Handout: Love, Wisdom, Control

"Trust His Heart" by Babbie Mason

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. (If you've already signed up for our email list, you'll receive them at each release already.)

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! <<

We suffer because we live in a fallen world. None of us escapes the impact of pain and sorrow and even outright evil. And honestly, this is probably one of the hardest things to reconcile for anyone who believes that there is meaning in this life. Sometimes we just desperately just want to know why...

But just because we don't understand all the ways of God, doesn't mean that we cannot wrestle with evil well, that we can't struggle well, and that we can't learn to move through suffering that draws us closer to Jesus and helps us walk with other people more richly.

Season 4 of Conversational Counseling on "Wisdom for Life's Common Struggles"

"Suffering: If God is good, why is there so much evil in the world?" by the late Dr. Timothy Keller

Our class on Lament, that is a free gift to you.

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season click ⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. This fifth season of Conversational Counseling is about suffering.

Have you ever felt like you are constantly striving for something that is never quite good enough? Or maybe you just feel like you're always falling a little short? If so, then this episode might be especially for you. This week’s common struggle is perfectionism. Whether we can see it in small areas or all throughout our lives, perfectionism can quickly become exhausting, exacting and exasperating! 

The “do it all” mentality of many perfectionists often leads to positive feedback from others, but all the praise can easily hide our underlying motives to the point that we can become unaware of the shame beneath our striving. Throughout this episode Alex walks us through her own journey with perfectionism and how the gospel provides freedom from the many things that can drive the perfectionism in all of us.

For Ed Welch's Shame Interrupted click here.

For Robert Thune & Will Walker's The Gospel Centered Life click here.

For Milton Vincent's The Gospel Primer click here.

You can click to listen to S1 E2 / Superpowers and S1 E3 / The "Tions": Justification, Sanctification, Glorification.

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season click ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. This fourth season of Conversational Counseling is called "Wisdom for life's common struggles.”

On this bonus episode of Conversational Counseling we are so excited to talk with Elyse Fitzpatrick! 

Elyse has spent the last 40 years in the biblical counseling sphere asking two very important questions - what do women need to hear and how can I get it to them? She has paved the way for women in the biblical counseling movement and continues to help teach people how to walk alongside others. 

We talk about how we can know all the right things and be doing them well, but miss the gospel. For the listeners that feel full of questions, this podcast is for you. If you are the person who has worked really hard to do all the right things and find the right answers, then this episode is most definitely for you. Listen now and hear Elyse talk about her journey and how the trajectory of life changed when the profound beauty of the gospel truly reached her heart.

To find out more about Elyse visit her webiste at elysefitzpatrick.com

Find Elyse's book, Because He Loves Me, here.

Find Elyse's book, Give Them Grace, here.

To listen to the Worthy Podcast, click here.

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season click ⁠⁠here⁠⁠.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠.

Known Ministries⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. This fourth season of Conversational Counseling is called "Wisdom for life's common struggles.”

Click HERE to get the FREE Anti-Psalm handout (it'll be sent to your email)

Fear of Man, also known as people pleasing, is the common struggle Brenda and Alex take us through this week. We are reminded that we were created to be known and know others deeply - but people pleasing distorts that into an inordinate desire for approval or inordinate fear of disapproval. These desires and fears can lead people into patterns of overcommitment, excessive worrying, over sensitivity, and over achievement. All of these traps can happen when we take good things and turn them into things we worship. We can begin to worship what others think of us, or what we can achieve, more than we trust in God and His plans for us. 

Alex and Brenda explain that the way out of people pleasing behaviors isn’t to love ourselves more; it is to reorient ourselves to love biblically. When we walk in the truth that God loves us, and we love Him, we don’t need to fear man’s opinions or judgements. The process of letting go of those fears and desires may cause disruption in our minds and our lives; but it will allow us to go back to gospel truth of how we are called to love God and love others. Our ability to love well is based on our ability to understand that we are loved well. Once we understand we are loved well, we can begin to live from God’s approval even if others do not approve. Only by overcoming fear with love can we continue to grow in spiritual maturity.

Lou Priolo's People Pleasing Inventory and his booklet Fear: Breaking Its Grip.

Ed Welch's book When People are Big and God is Small.

Listen to Paul Tripp's Eternity Amnesia here.

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season click ⁠⁠here⁠⁠.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠.

⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. This fourth season of Conversational Counseling is called "Wisdom for life's common struggles.”

Click here for the Lament Resource mentioned in Episode 7.

Bitterness is the complicated, yet common, struggle that Brenda and Alex take us through this week. Bitterness can cause us to feel powerless and will begin to shape how we view the world around us, how we see the past, and how we anticipate the future. If it continues we can begin to lose hope and forget that God is writing the story and we can trust Him in it. 

Through walking out a very personal experience that Brenda shares we learn that the path from bitterness to forgiveness goes through grief. Using Brad Hamrick’s model Alex and Brenda go through the similarities and differences of grief and bitterness. Through every example we can see how bitterness is the opposite of forgiveness, which will keep us stuck in a cycle of pain and hopelessness. In bitterness we tend to turn away from God in order to hold on to anger and our own idea of vengeance, but grief allows us to run towards Him in lament. Lament is an intentional form of grieving and it is essential to overcoming bitterness. Moving towards grief allows us to acknowledge the pain of our circumstance and begin the process of forgiveness. Grief can be exhausting, but as we work through it we can gain strength and hope. Hope in the future that ultimately rests in our hope that God is in control and we can trust in Him.

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season click ⁠⁠here⁠⁠.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠.

⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. This fourth season of Conversational Counseling is called "Wisdom for life's common struggles.”

For the Personal Lament Handout Click Here

Depression is a common but complex struggle that all of us will encounter in our own lives or in the lives of people we love. 

In this episode Brenda and Alex begin by addressing what depression is and walk through possible causes for it in our lives. Looking at it holistically they address our physical and spiritual lives, the influence of other people, and the influence of the enemy. This is the lens used by Dr. Bob Smith who was both a medical doctor and a biblical counselor. By looking at all these areas we can begin to see that even at the root depression is complex, and it is okay if we feel that complexity deeply. 

Depression tempts us to see the world in black and white categories. Its antidote, Biblical hope, acknowledges that there are other colors in the midst. There are dark colors in the midst of the bright and beautiful. We can become depressed when we think people have let us down, but when we think God has let us down we can feel that depression more deeply. Biblical hope leads us to trust God even when we can’t feel Him or see Him in our circumstances. We can trust in His character, His presence, and His promises. 

This is not meant to be a spiritual bandaid or a quick fix. Through exploring Paul Miller’s J-Curve in this episode we see that when we walk through the heaviness of our grief and sorrow instead of trying to get out from under it we can come to a place of hope. The Biblical hope that even when we have to dig into deep hard things there is a time coming when we will have ultimate hope realized.

The soul tool in this episode walks us through writing a lament. This tool allows us to express our deep messy emotions while engaging our faith. Although it can feel disrespectful or irreverent to be raw and messy before the Lord; a lament is a pure form of faith that simply takes God at his word. He wants to meet us exactly where we are. It is also important to listen to our bodies and create new rhythms and patterns that will help us feel anchored and have structure in our routine. Small goals and small victories in these areas can make a big difference in the battle of depression. 
Alex and Brenda encourage us to engage in the beauty we can find around us because it reminds us that God has not given up on the world. In the end, there will be nothing to depress us, all the sadness will one day be wiped away. No matter the season, we can depend on the promise of a final and future resolution through Jesus.

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season click ⁠⁠here⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠.

⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. This fourth season of Conversational Counseling is called "Wisdom for life's common struggles.”

For the Seven A’s of Confession Handout click here. 

In this episode Alex and Brenda explore guilt. By walking through the difference between subjectively feeling guilty and objectively being guilty we can begin to work through where and how guilt is affecting our walk with the Lord.

It’s important not only to recognize the difference between guilt and shame that Brenda and Alex discuss, but also to remind ourselves that there is a difference between conviction and condemnation. 

The Holy Spirit’s job is to convict us, but that conviction is an open invitation to repent and lean back into our relationship with God. Condemnation drives us away from Him and leads us into despair, but conviction is a gift that leads us into a better understanding of God’s Law and our relationship with Him. 

Alex and Brenda bring us back to the courtroom analogy to remind us that when we are in the courtroom of God we don’t have to worry. We can claim Christ’s righteousness for our own. We are responsible for how we respond to conviction, and whether we run towards or away from repentance, but ultimately through Christ we are declared not guilty. So often we’re programmed to think that the voice of God is harsh and demanding, but really He is wooing us back into a relationship with Him.

The soul tool in this episode walks us through the process of confession. In our own lives we can silence guilt in many ways, but unrepentant sin can bring destruction in our faith and our lives. When we confess our sin we are simply agreeing with God about our sin. We bring the darkness of our sin into the light of God’s mercy. We will receive forgiveness and cleansing when we lay our confessions before Him. 

Listen to Paul Tripp’s Confession is Grace here. 

Find the Gospel Waltz episode of Conversational Counseling here.

If you would like to listen to our season on Forgiveness you can find the first episode here.

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season click ⁠here⁠.

Our theme music is by ⁠As Isaac⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠ and ⁠Shane Selby⁠, executive producer ⁠Meleah Smith⁠, and ⁠generous donors⁠.

⁠Known Ministries⁠ is ⁠Alex Kocher⁠ and Brenda Payne. This fourth season of Conversational Counseling is called "Wisdom for life's common struggles.”

Click Here to have the Anger Journal Handout sent to your email

In this episode Brenda and Alex begin to unpack Anger. Anger is an all encompassing response - we feel it in our bodily responses, our mental value judgements, and our emotional reactions. 

Through exploring the differences between righteous and unrighteous anger in the journaling exercise provided in this episode we can begin to work through our own struggles with this layered emotional response. It is possible to be right in our assessment of what is making us angry, and wrong with how we handle it. By working through the questions discussed throughout the episode we can begin to walk through the process of anger in a way that allows us to grieve unrighteousness that is personally affecting us. As we allow grief into our anger we are more able to respond with meekness and wisdom. 

As we acknowledge how anger affects our spirit, we also acknowledge how it heavily affects our body. Brenda and Alex also talk about the importance of using the energy surrounding our anger to propel to motion, which will help us to have a clear mind and process the roots of our anger. 

It’s important to remember that this is not a perfect formula to remove anger from life. We are not always going to get this right - we are going to have to continually confess, repent, and ask for forgiveness because we are imperfect. We can take the time and be intentional and work through anger instead of trying to remove it altogether. Sometimes we want change to come instantaneously but we have to remember that sanctification is a process where we are cooperating with God to become Holy in thought and process. The more we can practice intentionally processing anger the more routine it will become, which allows us to also teach this process to others.

“The Madness of Anger” by Ed Welch - click here for PDF.

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season click ⁠⁠here⁠⁠.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠.

⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. This fourth season of Conversational Counseling is called "Wisdom for life's common struggles.”