Conversations as you Go

In this third podcast with Floyd, we continue to be challenged to “finish well”. Floyd speaks this challenge to us from a well of experience and heart. Floyd’s love for Jesus and his determination to be passionate to the end of his days speaks deeply to our hearts calling us to walk away from mediocrity and embrace our call, our God-given gifts and the opportunity to impact and influence many around us. 

We are in a battle for passion. The world is out to capture your passions.

Floyd begins this message by remembering his family and the impact that his parents had on his life particularly his father. His father was a man of humility, deep passion, led a long-life of serving the gospel and he finished well. 

Floyd estimates that 80-85% of spiritual leaders do not finish the race well. But what does it mean to finish well? According to Floyd it is to:

end with more passion that you began with

be true to who you are and what God has put into you

accomplish the assignment that God has for your life

be fruitful and to pass on to others who pass onto others what God has given to you. 

Drawing on Paul’s final letter, 2 Timothy written whilst facing his own death, Floyd highlights some of the key parting words that Paul gave to Timothy.

Australian society could be turned upside down if the 3-4% of the evangelical/protestant believers in this country just said, “I’m going to be on fire for Jesus and no one can take that away from me.”

As you listen to Floyd, ask the Holy Spirit to help you to stir up the passion in your life. Ask God to show you if there is anything in your life that has taken the place of Jesus and caused you to become compromised.  Ask God to help you to live well so that you finish well. “

...the issue isn’t will we die but will we die well.

Floyd McClung continues to share with us and in this episode he talks about what the Spirit is doing across the world and how we can respond by laying down our lives for Jesus.

Following Jesus means giving up our rights

“When we die, we know we can take our heart to heaven if we follow and love Jesus…But we can take one more thing. We can take other people with us to heaven too.”

‘For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you?’ (1 Thessalonians 2:19). 

The second reason to die for Jesus

“The Spirit of God is moving in our planet in a most awesome and unusual way right now in our lifetime.”

But Floyd challenges us by asking whether we will align our life to God’s Spirit by choosing to reject our western materialism and be willing to allow God to turn our lives upside down? 

Jesus (the Lamb of God) is worthy of our sacrifice

Our motivation to obey the Great Commission is found in Revelation 5...

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honour and glory and praise!” (Rev 5:12).

If we give our lives for the Lamb of God and for the sake of the Gospel, Jesus will meet us in our hour of need as we trust him. As Corrie Ten Boom once said, "In the moment I needed the grace of God, the grace of God was there for me."

Floyd finishes by asking us whether we would be willing to say, "I will give my life because the Lamb is worthy".

Over the next three podcasts we will be delving back into the archives as we hear again from Floyd McClung who shared at Crossway Baptist Church on the motivation of our hearts as disciple makers. 

In this first episode, Floyd focuses in on the Father heart of God. How we are to view people. This helps us view movement as not primarily a methodology but something of God’s driving heartbeat for all humanity. 

"God is a loving Father and he is anxiously longing and waiting for people to return". 

Floyd describes how the father responds to his son in Jesus’ commonly termed ‘Prodigal Son’ story (Luke 15:11-32) with his prodigal or ‘extravagant’ love.* This is God’s heart for all creation. A Father who is waiting and longing for our world. 

"God isn’t storing up wrath, he is storing up love."

Floyd shares that if we can connect with God’s heart, we can then go to others as a lover of God who cares deeply for people's brokenness. 

We hear precious and powerful stories of people encountering the Father's love from Floyd’s mission experiences in places like Amsterdam’s red light district and amongst the poor in South Africa.

"So the reason we go into mission isn’t out of guilt or obligation, but because the Father longs to receive people."

Tim Kellor's book, 'The Prodigal God' that Floyd refers to can be found here

In this episode we hear from movement practitioner Steve Addison who has just returned from traveling overseas which included a book tour of his latest book, ‘Acts and the Movement of God’. 

Emptying the tool bag

Steve bravely shares with us how God wanted him to recently completely empty his ministry ‘tool bag’ and then wait on God’s lead to know what to put back in. Steve’s podcast, turning his previous books into audiobooks and writing another book (filled with movement case studies) is what Steve is looking forward to running with as he moves forward. 

God shapes us through trials 

Steve reflects on his recent trips by highlighting the importance of disciple makers he met not only living out essential movement practices but allowing God to shape them internally. 

“When you hit hard times, don’t see it as a distraction. Lean into them. God uses these trials to shape us and position us where he wants us. Just like the Apostle Paul.”

Going near and far

Whilst observing movements in India recently, Steve kept hearing the same story time and time again of new disciples…

Being intentionally engagement in prayer (accompanied by signs of wonders)

Journeying through a slow discipleship process of going though the Scriptures (35 lessons from Creation to Christ). 

Forming ekklesias or groups. 

Multiplying the Gospel - going near and far

Opportunity to give to the persecuted church in India 

Dave encourages us to respond to an opportunity to give to the persecuted church in India via the Praxeis website. You can give by selecting ‘Persecuted Indian Church’ in the drop down options under ‘Support a Project’ here.

Read the book of Acts!

Steve urges us to go back and read the book of Acts again as disciple makers in the West. He challenges us to ground our practices in what Jesus himself did and what the apostles continued. 

“Do it (disciple making practices) because it’s right, not because it works. Go near and go far. Discover Christ in the harvest because he is there. We can’t control and receptively of the western world, but we’re still called to go!”

Final words of encouragement

Speaking on our response to times of trial and testing, feeling like we have nothing left, Steve encourages us to keep pressing into God. The outcome of our ministries he says is only through knowing Christ in our weakness.

‘But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.’ (2 Corinthians 4:7)

"As you engage in the harvest, take Jesus at his word and expect him to be with you. This is so that when the breakthroughs do come, your identify will no longer be dependant on your own ministry success.”

We join Dave as he catches up with Brian and Klaus around a campfire to the west of Canberra moments after a time of praying over the city together.

Embracing DMM from the heart

Brian shares a little of his journey towards DMM from being a legacy church leader in the sophisticated city of Canberra.

“We previously never thought about multiplying evangelism. But then we learnt that to help somebody discover God is to help them multiply.” 

Brian tells us the importance of having a ‘harvest is plentiful’ perspective. God has a plan for so called ‘tough’ cities like Canberra as we pray for harvest workers to be raised up (Luke 10:2).

“Prayer has become so much more important than ever before since its about being inwardly transformed, not just learning a slick new method.”

Renewing our minds as teams

Klaus joins the conversation sharing how seeing disciple making teams form has been key. Switching from gathering in a hall to homes has allowed their church to become more loving, learning and joy filled discipling communities. 

“I love the simplicity of how everyone in DMM can share God’s stories. Jesus himself shared stories to connect with the hearts and minds of such a wide range of people.” 

The willingness to ‘go slow to go far’ as disciple makers, Klaus says, is vital. He says the biggest challenge is inside us as God calls us to renew of our minds to his truth. He describes how using Jim Britts’ book (‘21 Days to Becoming a Disciple Maker’) with the team is helping them embrace the habits of Pray, Go, Disciple, Multiply in a deeper way. 

Multiplying everywhere through discipling hubs

Brian describes their current challenge of continuing to form apostolic and multiplying hubs of disciple makers all across Canberra. 

“Genuine leadership is leaders multiplying leaders. The multiplication of disciples needs to happen in every part of the operation. Catalytic leaders will multiply catalytic leaders. Movements will even multiply movements.” 

Pray the edges!

Before Klaus closes the podcast in prayer, Brian finishes up by emphasising the vital roles of what he calls evolving prayer by urging us to ‘pray the edges’ as we continue to engage with the person of God’s Word. 

“Everything needs to come from heaven…Every time we have seen a pioneering movement, it has been sponsored by prayer and the Word.”

We continue hearing from Jim Britts (author of the book, 21 Days to Becoming a Disciple Maker) sharing with us in this last (of three) podcast on the habits of disciple making. 

Obedience - Jesus' love language

Jim shares how there is a big difference between learning something and obeying something. We reproduce who we are, not what we tell people to do. Proving our love for Jesus happens through putting his words into real practice, avoiding vagueness (an enemy of obedience). 

Multiplication - pouring into less to reach more

Instead of ‘extraction evangelism’, we need to multiply the gospel through key insiders who’ll impact their existing ‘oikos’ (community). This means focusing more on those who are the spiritual sharers as Paul describes in 2 Timothy...

'And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others'. (2 Timothy 2:2)

Church

What does church actually look like for Jim?

Coaching through story telling: this happens over food as people share what God is doing from everyone being intentional with prayer and spiritual conversations. The group then responds with a time of prayer. (This space also includes coaching people to take their next steps in engaging with lost people). 

Discovery bible study: everyone is empowered to facilitate DBS. There’s a focus on empowering children since it’s worth the mess for the next generation. 

7 Commands of Christ when becoming a church

As groups come to Christ (and become a church), they are taken through ‘7 Commands of Christ'. Each week they look at different stories from the themes of Acts 2:37-47 (Repentance, Baptism, Loving one another, Prayer, Giving, Lord's Supper and the Great Commission).

Final encouragement - be practitioners

Jim finishes by sharing how the most important thing for us as disciple making leaders is that we are being practitioners amongst the lost ourselves. We will reproduce only who we are, not what we tell people to do. Our very souls need this. 

Purchase your copy of Jim's book here.

We continue our conversation with movement catalyst Jim Britts (who has just released a new book, 21 Days to Becoming a Disciple Maker).

Jim starts with some movement stories from the last few years that have come from him stepping into DMM. He shares his personal shifts to helping people come to Jesus through a disciple making process instead of starting with the sinners prayer.

We hear of the next two habits of a disciple maker as Jim reminds us that we need to move from being results to habits orientated in our disciple making.

Habit #3 - Discovery

Leading people in starting DBS is vital. We need to move into disciple making relationships, walking alongside who Jim calls 'PPOP' (potential people of peace). By finding someone's 'pain point' through spiritual conversations, Jim encourages us to offer prayer and start sharing discovery style stories.

"A message discovered is much better than a message delivered."

Habit #4: Team

Being in disciple making communities is so important for the ongoing encouragement of disciple makers. The core elements of these communities are always accountability, prayer and celebration.

"The secret sauce to becoming a disciple maker is simply being with a group of other people who all want to make disciples as well."

Final encouragement

Jim finishes this episode encouraging us (from 2 Corinthians 5:17-20) that we all have been given the ministry and message of reconciliation as Jesus' ambassadors. Therefore, disciple making is not what we do, it is the essence of who we are.

Purchase your copy of Jim's book here.

This episode, we begin our conversations with movement catalyst Jim Britts who has just released a new book, 21 Days to Becoming a Disciple Maker. 

Jim’s story

In 2018, after serving as a pastor for 20 years, Jim had a middle-of-the-night encounter with God who said, 

“Jim, I love the story of your church but you’ve missed the whole point. I called you to make disciples that make disciples and you’re not.” 

He started reading everything he could get his hands on about disciple making. This soon led Jim to discover what God was doing around the world through DMM. 

He was rocked by one stat from a Gallup survey. It showed how the church in North America had shrunk by 23 percent from 1999 to 2019. This statistic was especially challenging to Jim since he had started full-time ministry in 1999. 

He says, “So, on my watch 1 out of 4 people had left the church. Even though I was loving what was happening in my own ministry, I felt that the only thing that really mattered was seeing lostness being penetrated.” 

In California, where Jim lives, he tells us how 65% of people are saying, “We are never going to church”. 

Jim says, “In our culture, we have taught the non-Christian that they’re the missionary. If they want to find God, they have to leave their comfort zone. But the game changer for me was when I realised that the Great Commission and Gospels teach us that we are the ones who are supposed to leave our comfort zones. We were to meet these people (the 65%) where they’re at."

“My life doesn’t look like a harvest worker!”

Jim resonated with Chris Galanos’ similar discontentment and started going through his DMM training. He was struck, for example, by how he’d never made the obvious connection that Matthew 10 is a detailed description of what a harvest worker is who Jesus urges us to be praying for from the end of the previous chapter (Matthew 9:35-38). It dawned on him, “My life doesn’t look like a harvest worker!”. 

Over the last five years, as Jim learned to become a disciple maker himself, others joined him as almost everything in terms of ministry for him changed. These days, generation 1 churches and generation 2 groups are being birthed!

Habits of a disciple maker

Jim describes how the simplest way to cast vision for DMM has been to show people the Parable of the Sower (Matt 13:1-23). Despite everyone wanting to be the ‘good soil’, nine out of ten Christians say they are in the ‘too busy soil’ (amongst the thorns). Therefore, Jim encourages us that instead of focusing on the results of a disciple maker (that can easily bring discouragement), we can focus on the habits of a disciple maker.

Jim describes how his church ask each other every week, “Tell me a story about intentional prayer and intentional conversations”…

Habit #1: Intentional prayer

Jim tells us how the gateway habit to disciple making is intentionally praying for others. And if we want to be catalysing disciple makers, we need to be spending our time not just praying but multiplying prayer.

Some of the DMM tools for intentionally praying for others include: 

The 30 day prayer calendar

The PrayerMate App

Phil Alessia’s ‘Pray for 5' (Praying for 5 people, for 5 minutes, 5 times a week)

Habit #2: Intentional conversations

Jim encourages us to not just have conversations but always have intentionality when we're interacting with others. 

A simple tool is Paul Watson’s conversation quadrants where we move from Casual > Meaningful > Spiritual > Discovery conversations. Jim says people are waiting to share deeper things with us (Meaningful). From here, we are to seek opportunities to “drip God in” (Spiritual). And look to move into sharing stories, helping people discover truth about God together (Discovery).

Final encouragement

Jim finishes this episode encouraging us that there are People of Peace looking for us everywhere...

When Jesus saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd (Matt 9:36). There are people in your city who are feeling like this way right now. Their life is not going well for them. They feel like they can’t help themselves and there is nobody to help them. Imagine if somebody came up to them and said, “Can I pray for you? If you could see a miracle happen in your life what would it be?”. Imagine how open they might be!

Purchase your copy of Jim's book here.

We hear from Mike Hey again who is introduced to us by one of our leaders Jerry, who along with his wife Katie and their family, are pioneering DMM in South Australia. They are connecting with local leaders like Mike from OM who shares with us what disciple making looks like for him in Adelaide.

Sailing boats blown by the wind of the Spirit  

Mike starts by encouraging us with a picture: We are all building teams of disciple-makers and seeking to see them sail as small boats, catching the wind of the Spirit.

‘Jungle Bible College’

Mike and Ann were trained in what Mike calls an Indian ‘Jungle Bible College’ through sacrificial prayer and key people like Victor John since the 1970s. After leaving and starting to hear of movements happening back in India, they have sought to catalyse work amongst the unreached ever since. 

Adelaide, the city of the church

Mike describes that church as ‘ekklesia’, with all kinds of expressions, is at the heart of DMM. He has learnt how gathering disciples of Jesus is what brings a ‘disciple making momentum’ towards a disciple making movement. Disciples are people who learn to ‘go, gather and grow’ as they engage in prayer, the Word and being led by the Spirit.

‘Beautiful Feet’ in Adelaide’s north

“We were making disciples but not multiplying disciple makers.”

After returning to Adelaide, Mike shares how he and Ann started to pray and engage with others for Adelaide’s multicultural northern suburbs. They joined a church planting team and began to ask questions about building relational connections and pointing people to Jesus. And so began what Mike describes as a ‘Beautiful Feet’ initiative to see God’s people  activated in witness as they walk together to make disciples who will make disciples. He describes it as something that is gathering ‘disciple making momentum not yet movement’.

Mike says how those who are part of this initiative are followers of Jesus from lots of churches who are seeking to simply…

Walk with Jesus. 

Walk with a friend. 

And walk alongside others as they make disciples who will make disciples. 

Mike’s paradigm shifts and lessons learned

From outreach to ‘in-reach’: Seeing disciples made through an insider movement is key.

From addition (get them into the church) to multiplication 

From gathering to grow to gathering to grow, go and scatter

Take your fishing rod (fish for people around you) but remember the Holy Spirit is weaving and casting a larger net, not us (each of us are a strand on this net). 

Keep walking, the river will rise. 

Stay in the mud until it clears. (Don’t jump out when it gets tough.)

Grassroots prayer leads to green shoots of life. Prayer onsite brings insight. 

Its all about relationship - keep gathering to scatter (multiply). 

Taking church to the park

Mike shares how once a quarter, he takes an established local church into their local park to do a DBS. He then helps this church to invite everyone in their neighbourhood to a community BBQ gathering. This is where a smaller group of Christians search for People of Peace. More regular DBS and BBQs can then happen.  

Mike prays for our cities and challenges us

“We pray for green shoots of authentic worship to rise in every neighbourhood across our cities”

“God loves everyone and Jesus is the leader of his church in your city…We just need to catch up with what God is doing…Don’t try and get into the heart of the church, instead get right out on the margins. That’s where you can grow a life of prayer, blessing and disciple making. Multiply ‘oikos’ networks. Be attentive to God, receptive of one another, intentional to bless and innovative in all you do. Find and equip Peace Makers. Discover and walk alongside People of Peace in your sphere of influence. Join Jesus as he multiplies radiant communities of his followers. And seek to disciple nations!”

Mike finishes by asking each of us: 

“What is your next step in the next 24 hours? That is most important step we take with Jesus.”

In this episode, we continue on from last week’s conversation with Dave Coles, hearing about his exciting new book release, ‘Cabbages in the Desert’, the story of Aila Tasse. A story of a young Muslim being called by Jesus to see movements birthed across East Africa. Today we continue to draw out from Dave the DMM principles of how we are going to see movements in the West. 

Cabbages in the Desert is available here.

“Baheesi have you become a pastor!?”

Dave shares the stories of Baheesi and Ruth that demonstrate how simple obedience by seemingly ‘insignificant’ men and women can lead to seeing movements launched. These African leaders have impressed Dave with their calm confidence and a Holy Spirit led creativity and flexibility in making disciples in tough Muslim contexts. Because movements are indigenous, the stories of these leaders show us how they start somewhere and shepherd something that God is doing.

Levels of leadership in movements

Aila’s paradigm of a so called ‘leadership pyramid’, demonstrates a humble empowerment of others to form teams, hubs and networks that aren’t dependant on one leader or organisation. This ordered leadership process is not an oppressive structure. But instead it identifies where people are at and so allows various types of leaders to develop their gifts and grow. 

Training through apprenticing 

DMM training in Africa is highly relational and hands on. Doing life together through an apprenticeship type training model. 

The lifestyle of a movement leader is summarised by one leader, Albert in the book: 

“You can only make disciples if you too are a disciple. That means you are a person of prayer. You’re obedient to the Word of the Lord. You're passionate and committed to making disciples and you have patience with them through the process. And you remember that the Lord Jesus was patient with the disciples. He took time to explain the parables. To even allow them to make mistakes. Similarly you are not afraid to release your groups to go on and form their own groups.” 

What’s next for Dave Coles the author? 

Through his upcoming books and literature, Dave seeks to continue to show us how God is working globally in creative ways amongst different people. This will include a book of another African leader working amongst Muslims in similar yet different ways. A second book (‘Leadership Breakthrough’) with Victor John will give a much needed Asian voice on leadership. These as well as a number of smaller accounts of various movement leaders from across the world. 

Dave’s prayer for the West

“That we would maximise everything we have been given to be like Christ and to be and spread his fragrance among all peoples.”

Dave’s final encouragement

“We are privileged to hear how God is using our brothers and sisters in other contexts. But it is not just for them. There are principles that are relevant that we can also apply in our context. These stories are encouraging to our hearts but are also insightfully wise for developing strategy. It’s wonderful for us to follow Jesus and follow in the footsteps of those he is using powerfully to touch the ends of the earth.”

This is the continuation of the amazing stories of movements that are being catalysed that we’ve been hearing out of East Africa from other leaders like Justin and Wilson

You can listen to our previous podcasts with these leaders by selecting a link to the Podcast episode below: 

89. Nairobi Gathering #3 – Rwanda Case Study (Justin)

93. Nairobi Gathering #7 – Wilson’s Story Pt. 1

94. Nairobi Gathering #8 – Wilson’s Story Pt. 2 - or watch Wilson's story here.