If you believe the news, shoplifting is many things: "on the rise," "a scourge," and "way up." The thing is … is it really? In truth, it's very hard to know, because the variables are myriad. We discuss this conundrum with Adam Gelb, President and CEO of Council on Criminal Justice, a non-partisan think tank, and a pretty darn knowledgeable person on the topic. Then we pivot to tackle the role prison and parole play in our criminal justice system. We talk with Ben Austen, author of Correction: Parole, Prison, and the Possibility of Change. Ben is joined by Johnny "Khalif" Veal, who was convicted of murder in 1970 and paroled in 2021, a man who says prison changed him in all types of ways.

Produced by Joel Patterson and Corey Wara

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