In a culture obsessed with numerical growth and expansion, Christian leaders often measure success by the size of their congregation, budget, or influence. But for believers who desire to lead with integrity and purpose, we must reframe our leadership goals with a different question in mind: "What are we measuring, and why?"

In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin welcomes Bishop Geoffrey Dudley, pastor of New Life in Christ Church and CEO of Ilead Enterprises. As a retired Air Force chaplain with over 20 years of service and the author of Leading Through the Storms, Bishop Dudley brings practical leadership wisdom and spiritual insight to navigating ministry growth and decline.

Together, Nicole and Bishop Dudley explore what it means to "crucify scale" and lead through the inevitable storms of ministry. Throughout their conversation, they emphasize that true success isn't measured merely by numbers but by the depth of maturity, spiritual growth, and kingdom impact. Bishop Dudley shares his journey from preaching at age thirteen, Air Force chaplaincy, and later to pastoring a thriving church, revealing how storms and challenges crystallized his calling and transformed his approach to leadership. Together, they invite us to practice honest self-reflection and align our understanding of scale with God’s vision.

If you've ever felt dissonance between your vision for growth and your current reality, this conversation is for you.

Tune in now to discover how to measure what truly matters and lead faithfully through both seasons of expansion and turbulence.

This episode highlights the following themes:

• Finding meaning beyond numerical metrics in ministry
• Preparing for inevitable leadership storms
• Developing multi-generational leadership for long-term impact
• Differentiating between growing a church and growing disciples

Links from the episode:

• Learn more about Bishop Geoffrey Dudley
• Check out Bishop Dudley's book: Leading Through the Storms
• Learn more about Nicole Martin
• Read Nicole Martin's book: Nailing It
• Read the transcript here

Credits:

✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton

✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee

✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble

✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo

✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$t

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

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