Maria was born into one of history's most harmful cults, the Children of God. Maria joins us in the first of two chats to detail what the group was like from the perspective of a child. Maria brings her knowledge and expertise as a psychologist to the conversation, sharing both the harms that children experienced in the group, and also the results of a 2024 study which she authored which details the serious consequences in adulthood of growing up in a cult.

Join us for a moving conversation with Tristan Phipps and Dr Kyle Eggleton, who share about the Two by Twos in NZ. This organisation is currently under FBI investigation for child abuses, which has prompted NZ survivors to speak up. Our guests talk to us about the hierarchy & control of the church, the social context which has made systemic child sexual abuse possible, and the work they are doing as advocates in a movement that's drawing survivors together into safe spaces.

Show Notes

• Two By Two kiwis who left sect being probed by FBI form support group - RNZ article

• FBI enlists NZ police to investigate sexual abuse in secretive sect - RNZ article

• Laura McConnel Conti’s new podcast Truth 2x2 Cult Kids - a new podcast from a multi-generational survivor of the church in Australia

• Lets Talk About Sects Two by Two episodes - https://www.ltaspod.com/26 and https://www.ltaspod.com/2x2s-update

• ABC - Survivors waiting for compensation and FBI Child Sex Abuse Investigation

• Cherie Kropp-Ehrig’s website

• A Hulu documentary The Secrets of the Two by Two church 

• BBC Sounds Crime Next Door Season 2 Servants and Saints - podcast series exploring the church from a UK based journalist

• Wings For Truth - Guidance and support those who have been sexually abused within the Fellowship of Friends and Workers (aka Two by Two or Truth)

• Facebook - Surviving the Truth NZ - Message Tristan and Kyle

• Show notes for therapist episodes of Cult Chat

• Olive Leaf Network - Email Lindy for resources for therapists

  Religious Trauma Collective resources

We loved Andre so much we got him back for a third episode! This time he tells us about his PhD on waking up from indoctrination in the Jehovah Witnesses. In this fascinating interview you’ll find out all about the role of doubt (even in the most fervent believer), the trigger event which leads to the effort to resolve the doubt, and if that isn’t resolved… the turning point which leads to waking up. This episode will give you the language to understand this experience common to people who have left a cult.

Show Notes

Dr Andre Jackson Dissertation - Waking Up: A Narrative Inquiry into Deconversion Stories by former Jehovah's Witnesses Bethelites Dr Andre Jackson Presentation at ICSA 2024 - Waking Up

We loved Andre so much we got him back for a third episode! This time he tells us about his PhD on waking up from indoctrination in the Jehovah Witnesses. In this fascinating interview you’ll find out all about the role of doubt (even in the most fervent believer), the trigger event which leads to the effort to resolve the doubt, and if that isn’t resolved… the turning point which leads to waking up. This episode will give you the language to understand this experience common to people who have left a cult.

Dr Andre Jackson returns in this episode to finish his chat with Liz about the JWs, their doctrines and the methods they use to control members. Together the two examine different methods of control utilized by the JWs, particularly  information control, use of propaganda, and justifications for misleading people for the benefit of the organisation. At the end of this episode Liz is joined by Lindy and Caz to dissect the interview, with a view to understanding how these themes apply to cults across NZ.

Liz plumbs the depths of the JW’s with Dr Andre Jackson in this episode, to try to understand the control mechanisms within this organisation. What are the expectations of members of the JWs? How is the organisation structured? What are their key beliefs, and are any of these harmful? What are the impacts on witnesses when they ask questions or try to leave? With approximately 15,000 JWs in New Zealand (according to their website) plus others who have left, these are important questions to ask.

What is happening at Gloriavale? Join Liz and two of the lawyers representing Gloriavale Leavers, Steve Patterson and Dennis Gates, as they give a comprehensive update on the long and arduous road to justice and holding the Gloriavale leaders to account.

The chat about the highlights and lowlights of 2024, and discuss the many investigations and court cases that are ongoing. They reveal some new actions that will get underway in 2025, and talk about a legal bill ordered by the courts that they don't want to pay. They chat about the Royal Commission of Inquiry into historic Abuse in Care and the recent apology Gloriavale made. Was it genuine? And what's happening with their Charity Status, the School, India and the Police Slavery investigation?

This episode is not to be missed.

Today our co-hosts wrap-up the shunning mini-series, unpacking what they’ve learned from Craig, Lindy, Windy & Savin. This topic has been given four episodes because the costs for individuals, families and communities who experience this cruel tactic of control is devastating and poorly understood. Mandated shunning destroys lives, destroys communities, and there are no laws to protect people from falling victim to it. Join the Cult Chat team as they debrief for the final episode on this topic.

In this 3rd episode on shunning, Craig Hoyle, author of “Excommunicated” shares about growing up in the Exclusive Brethren, aware that many members of his family have disappeared and been painted by the church as evil. Ultimately Craig faces his own sudden excommunication. This conversation shows powerfully the inter-generational impacts of shunning, both for those who are obliterated from the family tree, and those who are left behind. The interview was recorded at the Oct 24 Decult Conference.

Listen in to the second half of Lindy’s interview with Drs Windy and Savin, who share findings from their research on shunning including the serious life-long impacts for both the individual and their communities. Savin says, “Shunning is not a one-off event,” - indeed it is a trauma that affects a whole life. Our guests share insights for those affected by shunning, and discuss ways to reframe and grow through the experience. This episode is the second of four in a mini series on shunning.

Show notes

“You’re Going to Go into Some Really Dark, Dark Places in Your Mind.” Loss and Disillusionment of Being Shunned From the Jehovah’s Witnesses Community and Its ImpactWindy A. Grendele, Flax, M. & Bapir-Tardy, S., 23 Aug 2023, In: International Journal of Coercion, Abuse, and Manipulation (IJCAM).