Cult Chat

On 23 October Liz, Lindy and Caz hosted a dinner event at Parliament called "Unmasking Cults." We were delighted that a range of dignitaries, ministers, and representatives of key services in New Zealand were interested in hearing about, and hopefully take action to address, the harms that cults cause across New Zealand. Listen to our hosts - along with guest host Dr Janja Lalich - share some of their recollections of this event at the Beehive, outline some of the other presentations, and offer their hopes for future change driven from the center of power in New Zealand.

Join Liz, Caz, Lindy and cult expert Dr Janja Lalich, as they talk about the highlights of the inaugural NZ Decult 2024 conference, and how this remarkable event has contributed to a critical conversation. In this episode Liz says, “The problem is more pervasive than your average kiwi recognises.” Too right, Liz! Let's keep the conversation going!

Notes

*Trigger warning for this episode’s content*. This episode we continue the second part of Caz’s interview with Mary Garden, talking about how her swami revealed himself to not be the benign, peaceful, celebate yogi that he appeared, but instead a violent, tantrum-throwing psychopath with sexually predatory intent. Mary talks about trauma, waking up, and the gift of writing her story, returning to herself and learning that she did not need a guru in the end afterall. 

Show notes

Trailer - The Push - on Netflix

Mary Garden was a seeker in her 20s, finding her way to India to three different gurus - Sai Baba, Swami Balyogi Premvarni, and Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. Mary tells her story, unpacking the historical context that left her longing for more, and the personal context which primed her for recruitment. Our hosts then chat about recruitment, the suppression of intellect and critical thinking required by gurus, and malignant teachers who gain enormously from the submission and supplication of seekers.

Show notes

Cults exposed in New Zealand. The Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Faith-Based & State-Based Care investigated what happened to children, young people and adults in NZ in these care settings during 1950 to 1999. The final report - Whanaketia - was released on 25 June. The extent of the findings are beyond imaginable. Lindy, Liz and Caz all have personal reasons to care about the findings of this report. In this discussion they talk about Whanaketia and how the findings relate to cults in New Zealand operating now.

Show Notes:

Dr Janja Lalich, leading cult researcher and sociologist, author of several books about cults including “Take Back Your Life”, talks with Liz and shares her Bounded Choice Framework. They talk about moral injury and accountability, the way cults arrest the development of children, and the importance of support and psychological care after leaving a cult. This chat comes in the lead up to Dr Lalich’s October visit to New Zealand for multiple speaking engagements, including the Decult Conference, Parliamentary evening, University lecture and a visit to Timaru to engage with Gloriavale Leavers and supporters.

If you’ve been wondering if your book club is actually a cult, then this episode is for you! Settle in as our hosts chat about the green flags for healthy groups - borrowing extensively from the work of Dr Janja Lalich, in her book “Escaping Utopia”. The girls try very hard to focus on the flourishing, nourishing and encouraging qualities present in a healthy group and how they are different from harmful groups, but of course, they definitely talk about cults! They can’t help themselves!

Lindy chats with Dr Gillie Jenkinson, UK psychotherapist, trainer of therapists, and author of “Walking Free from the Trauma of Coercive, Cultic and Spiritual Abuse - A Workbook for Recovery and Growth.” Gillie talks about her personal history in a cult, her realization that the only way to get some decent resources for the cult recovery journey was to develop them herself, and the excitement she is feeling as she plans the last details for her trip to New Zealand in October 2024 . She will be speaking at Decult and running workshops for therapists. We can’t wait to see her!

Liz & Caz learnt so much at the International Cultic Studies Association conference in Barcelona that they had to do another episode on it! Listen in as they tell Lindy all about the fascinating anti-cult activists and educators they met and the breaking research they learnt about. In this episode they chat about the process of waking up for cultists, the impacts on the second generation, and a dive into the very damaging impacts of mandated shunning - which so many cults enforce.