In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue through The Dark Night of the Soul (Book Two, Chapters 19–20). They reflect on St. John’s 10-step “mystic ladder” of divine love—from turn to burn—blending scripture, lived experience, and Andrew’s upcoming 12-hour overnight performance, Dark Night. Together they explore perseverance, the quiet work of desire, and how growth unfolds through trust, consistency, and showing up.

 Book II chapters 19-20 

00:48 Discussing the Mystic Ladder of Divine Love

01:22 Exploring the First Steps: Languish and Swoon

04:35 Seeking and the Journey Up the Ladder

18:53 The Role of Teachers and Guides

24:49 The Struggle and Joy of Progression

36:00 The Importance of Process Over Performance

38:57 The Power of Repetition

40:29 The Mystic Ladder: A Metaphor for Human Endeavor

42:35 Steps of the Mystic Ladder

49:16 The Final Steps: Hold and Burn

51:18 The Journey of Transformation

01:09:52 The Good Place and the Mystic Ladder

01:15:30 Final Thoughts

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com

In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue through The Dark Night of the Soul (Book Two, Chapters 16–18). They reflect on John’s “secret, secure ladder” and what it means to be led where sight can’t go, when memory fades, senses are stilled, and understanding grows quiet. Through scripture and lived experience, they explore unknowing as a path of love, learning to trust God’s hidden guidance more than effort, explanation, or control. 

 Book II chapters 16-18 

00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast

02:14 The Essence of Spiritual Progress

07:17 Exploring the Poem: Dark Night of the Soul

16:56 The Concept of Beginner's Mind

22:31 The Universal Path of Emptiness and Fulfillment

33:48 The Descent and Dark Night of the Soul

41:14 Theological Constructs and Free Floating Journeys

58:36 The Role of Love and Community in the Dark Night

01:03:34 Final Thoughts 

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com

In this episode, Andrew and Mike continue their journey through The Dark Night of the Soul, exploring Book Two, Chapters 12-15. They reflect on the image of the Divine who moves slowly, at the pace of love not efficiency, and what it means to walk with such a God through stillness, silence, and surrender. Drawing from scripture, lived experience, and the rhythm of everyday life, they unpack the difference between spiritual striving and divine timing. 

Book II chapters 12-15 

00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast

03:58 Personal Experiences and Vocational Ministry Challenges

21:46 Reflections on the Dark Night Live Performance

38:50 Facing Retirement and Vocational Calling

42:24 The Role of Presence in Vocational Ministry

48:43 The Three Mile an Hour God

58:40 Paul's Struggle to Articulate Spiritual Realities

01:06:57 The Pain and Glory of Ministry

01:12:08 Final Thoughts

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com

In this episode, Andrew and Mike press deeper into the dark night. Drawing on “hyperlinks” in the Bible between the book of Lamentations, the letter to the Corinthians, and the wilderness of Jesus’ temptation, they explore what it means to be a log thrown into the fire consumed so that love might be refined. Their conversation wrestles with surrender, endurance, and the paradox of active passivity: being carried more than striving, walking without sight, and trusting that in the process God is at work. 

Book II chapters 8-11

00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast

02:02 Scriptural Engagement and Reflections

12:03 Metaphors and Spiritual Insights

23:10 The Role of Passivity in Spiritual Growth

27:37 Engaging with Spiritual Formation

34:47 The Parables and Indirectness of God

39:02 Jesus' Journey and Temptation

46:26 Personal Reflections and Burnout

55:02 The State of the World and Final Thoughts 

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com

In this episode, Andrew and Mike dive into Book Two, Chapters 4–7 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. They explore themes of purgation, detachment, and the “poverty of spirit” that marks the threshold of transformation. Alongside scripture and lived stories, they wrestle with the experience of emptiness, aridity, and the dark fog that seems to blind the faculties of memory and desire. The conversation touches the stories of Jonah, Job, Jeremiah, and even jazz improvisation, drawing out a conception of God who does not always lift us out of the fire but instead meets us within it. 

 Book II chapters 4-7

00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast

01:12 Resonating Points in Chapter Four

02:43 The Beatitudes and Purgation

04:53 Transformative Memory and Eternal Apprehensions

32:36 The Art of Recovery in Dance and Life

37:58 Exploring the Three Kinds of Good

43:14 Fog and Divine Presence

01:02:27 The Great Undoing

01:08:48 Final Reflections and Future Directions

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com

In this episode, Andrew and Mike dive into St. John of the Cross’s teaching on the “dark night”— how dryness and emptiness can be the way of deepening love and union with the divine. Through personal stories and pastoral insight, they unpack the difference between active efforts and passive purifications, how to endure when praying feels numb, and practical ways to stay the course —examen, simple obedience, and quiet service—even in the darkness. Book II chapters 1-3 00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast02:43 Personal Reflections and Challenges03:13 The Concept of Fortitude11:01 The Spiritual Journey of Hafiz20:35 Reconciling Hardship and Divine Love32:30 Exploring the Appeal of Mysticism38:09 The Journey from Communication to Communion43:43 Endurance and the Dark Night of the Soul48:05 The Role of Pain and Suffering in Spiritual Growth55:07 The Importance of Endurance and Recognition01:04:44 Concluding Thoughts and ReflectionsRelated LinksDark Night Project: www.darknightlive.comNemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com

In this episode, Andrew and Mike explore Jonah’s descent as a living metaphor for the Dark Night of the Soul. Drawing from scripture, Hebrew insights, and personal stories, they unpack themes of purgation, endurance, stripping away, and the tension between punishment and transformation. The conversation wrestles with what it means to be swallowed by darkness, where God is in those moments, and how surrender and the choice to endure open the way forward. 

 Reading: Book I chapters 12-14 

00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast

03:05 Exploring St. John of the Cross

07:44 Jonah and the Dark Night

09:51 The Descent of Jonah

12:19 Jonah's Prayer and Reflection

27:03 The Pregnant Fish and Spiritual Formation

32:16 The Significance of the Jonah Story

38:26 The Role of Spiritual Practices

47:31 The Dichotomy of Achievement and Spiritual Formation

01:01:42 Conclusion and Reflections

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com

In this episode, Andrew Nemr and Pastor Mike Freeman dive into Chapter 11 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. They discuss the transformative process of enduring spiritual darkness and emptiness as a pathway to deepening love and union with God. Andrew shares his experiences with preparing for his 12-hour overnight performance, while Mike highlights the passive nature of spiritual growth and the significance of enduring through life's challenges.

Reading: Book I Chapters 10–11

00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast

00:34 Exploring the Theme of Love in St. John's Work

03:17 Discussing Chapter 11 of The Dark Night of the Soul

09:52 The Beatitudes and Their Spiritual Significance

15:03 The Process of Spiritual Growth and Humility

21:23 Active vs. Passive Spiritual Practices

33:33 The Crushing Process

34:20 The Passive Phase

35:21 Jesus' Silent Observation

36:08 The Love of the Father

36:45 Feeling Forsaken

39:26 The Dark Night of the Soul

43:25 The Metaphor of the Tree

50:34 Paul's Contentment

55:33 The Secret of Being Content

01:02:04 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com

In this episode, Andrew Nemr and Mike Freeman continue their journey with Chapters 8–9 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross, delving into St. John of the Cross's concept of the Dark Night of the Soul and discussing Andrew's spiritual preparation for the presentation of Dark Night Live. They share personal reflections on sense deprivation, spiritual emptiness, and the importance of falling into aridity as it relates to the dark night of the soul.

Reading: Book I Chapters 8–9 

00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast

00:33 Andrew's Retreat Experience

01:29 Understanding the Dark Night of the Soul

07:05 The Story of the Traveler and the Dragon

12:56 The Concept of 'I' in Spirituality

29:21 The Paradox of the Gospel

39:46 Avoiding Deep Intimacy

41:52 The Night of Sense

43:50 The Love of God

46:16 Relational Aspects of Faith

49:40 The Dark Night of the Soul

54:28 Spiritual Practices and Prayer

01:03:31 Community and Support

01:08:14 Reflecting on St. John of the Cross

Related Links

Dark Night Project: www.darknightlive.com

Nemr Institute: www.nemrinstitute.com

In this episode, Andrew Nemr and Mike Freeman continue their journey with Chapters 4–7 of The Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross, exploring the hidden spiritual obstacles that are effectively stripped away in the Night – like spiritual pride and gluttony.

Reading: Book I Chapters 4–7 

00:00 Introduction to The Dark Night Podcast

01:53 Greek Influences and Biblical References

04:09 Sins of the Flesh vs. Sins of the Spirit

05:21 Historical Anecdotes and Spiritual Lessons

20:13 The Challenge of Reading the Bible

26:12 Brother Lawrence and Practicing the Presence

32:27 The Dark Night of the Soul: A Universal Experience

48:13 The Hidden Nature of Spiritual Growth

52:44 Full Solar vs. Lunar Spirituality