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When two adversaries confront one another militarily, they are rarely the only participants. Either side might delegate portions of its war efforts to proxies, for example. But there are a wide range of other roles that intermediaries also play. This episode explores those roles and features a discussion with Dr. Michael G. Vickers, former US under secretary of defense for intelligence, and Dr. Vladimir Rauta, an associate professor at the University of Reading.

Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa

Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa

CC BY-NC-ND 4.0